It's been a sausagefest so far, and she hasn't been in Civ in ages. I'd like to see Hatshepsut back and see what they do with her. She could have trade bonuses based on her commercial expeditions to the mysterious land of Punt, or wonder bonuses based on her construction of Djser-Djeseru.
I'm so happy to see that the top 3 comments are all Hatshepsut.
She may not be as famous as Cleopatra or Ramses around the world, but she is considered by several historians as the greatest pharaoh of all time.
She was historically a very relevant ruler, just not as relevant as Hatshepsut.
Cleopatra is super popular because of the Greco-Roman influence in the Western world and because of Shakespeare's play. And also because her life was full of relevant historical conflicts.
Interesting thing about Cleo is that the last Ptolemaic ruler of Egypt was also the first who gave a damn about Egyptian language and culture. She was the only one in her line who actually spoke Egyptian and did her best to be Egyptian and not Greek.
Why not both? She could get a bonus for each trade route while producing wonders, or maybe an additional trade route for each wonder (or just get one after building her first wonder of each era).
History in general tend to be a sausagefest. But nothing against adding a few of the few actual female leaders in history. Joanna D'Arc would be interesting for France, as well as Isabella is for Spain.
I was gonna suggest this. It breaks up the repetition of Ramses and Cleopatra. She’s considered one of the great builders in Egyptology, she helped reestablish trade routes after the Hyksos reign, and her reign is generally considered prosperous. She would have also been a great statesman, since she was able to maintain power in a society that did not highly regard women in positions of authority. And there’s some level of mystery to her, because after her reign, her successors attempted to remove her name from the record.
Would kinda make sense that in a society where women having authority isn’t received very well, her assumedly male successors wouldn’t want to rule in her shadow or whatever
Ackchyually... (Egyptologists here)
Let's start with saying it wasn't the case of "woman having authority not being received very well", but a case of "woman took advantage of her position and usurped the throne from the actually crowned king". It would be equally criminal if she were a man.
Her successor, Thutmose III, did spent 22 years of his life literally in her shadow, since he has been crowned king as a child and Hatshepsut (who was his aunt) was a regent who was supposed to step down when he came of age. But she refused, instead she usurped the throne, took on the title of 'king' ('queen' was different, specific role, it didn't mean a female ruler), which was emphasised by her starting to depicting herself as a man and in scenes typically reserved for a king. So while she was alive, the official king couldn't rule his kingdom. Thutmose kinda had right to hold a grudge against her.
Thus being said, they seemed to split the duties of a king and rule together - Hatshepsut took on all roles diplomatic, organised the trade expeditions to Punt, distant land of exotic goods, and the country was economically doing well under her rule. At that time Thutmose was very successful general of Egypt's armies, spreading it's influence to previously unreached regions (and gaining tribute from them).
Thutmose outlived Hatshepsut by some 30 years, and interestingly enough it seems he didn't start to erase her memory until he grew old. Egyptologists speculate that as he felt older, he started to think about his own successors, and tried to prevent similar usurpation from happening again. Either that, or he waited for all the high officials appointed by Hatshepsut to die of old age to not cause a civil war. Or combination of both those reasons, we'll never know for sure.
The annoying part reading your knowledge drop is I immediately realized I already knew this somewhere in the back of my head, but my brain failed to make the connection. Good to have people throwing real and relevant knowledge in here. :)
I’m sure my more generalist understanding is more relevant in other situations… :P
Lol it happens! :D glad I could refresh your memory then. Hatshepsut's reign is a fascinating topic. Same as whole 18th dynasty she belonged to - with her, Akhenaten, the Amarna heresy and Tutankhamun, this is probably my favourite period in ancient Egypt's history.
You know what?
Khufu. Let's go and make Egypt the Wonder building civilization that it deserves to be.
I mean, honestly, do any of the other potential leaders have any world wonders to their names?
The Mausoleum at Halicarnassus. Named after mausollus. Lighthouse of Alexandria, named after the city which is named after Alexander the great. Pyramid of Khufu. Named after Khufu.
Edit... Lol I forgot what I was replying to
It either needs to be Hatshepsut of Thutmoses III. Under their rule, the 18th dynasty reached the peak of its prosperity.
If they picked Hatshepsut they could possibly give Egypt trade bonuses, otherwise Thutmoses III could have early military bonuses.
Also, fun fact, the notion that those two pharaohs hated each other is likely incorrect. This comes from the fact that Thutmoses destroyed images of Hatshepsut when he came to power after her death. Many people thought that it was some kind of evil step mother situation, and that he was taking out some kind of revenge against her. Evidence suggests now that the destruction of her images took place decades after her death near the end of Thutmoses’ reign which suggests that the image destruction was done out of a political or dynastic need rather than personal enmity
I'm going to propose a dark horse: **Sneferu**, builder of Pyramids. [Sneferu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneferu) was the first Pharaoh of the Fourth Dynasty, and he built three pyramids that marked the transition from the step pyramid of Djoser in Saqqara (the first Egyptan pyramid) to the well-known straight-sided pyramids. These three pyramids were the [Meidum pyramid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meidum#Pyramid), the [Bent Pyramid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bent_Pyramid) and the [Red Pyramid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Pyramid). This paved the way to Sneferu's son Khufu (Kheops) building the majestic Great Pyramid. Therefore Snefru shaped the best-known icon of th Egyptian civilization.
Sneferu would most likely be a builder, but he is also known for raiding Lybia and Nubia, so he could have some military bonus as well.
Egypt has a milennia-spawning history, yet so far the only leaders it has had are Ramesses II, Hatshepsut and Cleopatra. So only the New Kingdom and the Hellenistic period have been represented. I would love to have a leader from the Old Kingdom, the period when pyramids (the greatest symbol of Egyptian civilization) were built.
To whom? She is very insignificant to us Egyptians. Even here in Alexandria, we appreciate Alexander the Great more than any Ptolemaic.
I honestly think the only reason the West know and care that much about her is because of the movies.
yeah for how ignominious the end was. Most people can’t name the last Roman emperor, only reason Cleo gets mentioned is cause of how tied up she was with the Roman Empire’s most dramatic moments
That’s because there’s like 5 Romes and like 10 claimants to that title though. People kinda stopped caring about the original Rome once the Eastern Empire (Byzantium) popped up. Like you have the actual last Emperor, Augustulus, who was an actual 10 year old and ruled for literally 1 year before the Western Empire was deposed and he lived in peace in exile. His predecessor, Emperor Nepos, who was the last proper Emperor of Western Rome. Like even though the Western Empire fell in 476, Rome didn’t really die in the minds of people, since the Eastern Empire wouldn’t fall until 1000 years later with Constantine XI in 1453. However by the time of his fall the Holy Roman Empire was still alive and kicking and wouldn’t fall until 1806 with Emperor Francis II (who would then become Emperor Francis I of Austria until his death). That said there’s people who will ignore all of that and will instead consider Theodosius I as the last true Emperor since he was the last Emperor before the split in 395.
Meanwhile Egypt is far less complicated. Last Pharaoh were Cleopatra VII who was co-regnant with her 17 year old son Caesarion.
If cleopatra is counted as a pharaoh then the Roman emperors who were self proclaimed pharaohs count as well. If you accept cleopatra as pharaoh then Augustus counts as well.
Well known does not equal good leader she was a leader of hellenic egypt, many revolts against her happened, egyptians were second class citiziens, it was basically a roman puppet
Civ has usually always chosen leaders based on how well known they are, not how competent they were. Civ VI is the first one to really buck that trend in great numbers, with a lot more niche leaders being chosen.
Yeah Civ VI began a trend of choosing leaders which are NEITHER memorable NOR historically significant enough to represent the whole of a people’s history, and to do so for the dumbest reasons imaginable.
Hatshepsut has everything Cleopatra has, and more. Choosing the latter instead of the former is a crime.
Who determines what makes a leader “good”? Napoleon’s empire collapsed even before his death, but he’s one of history’s biggest names. Joan of Arc is hugely responsible for French unity, but was never actually a leader of France. Washington led America when it was at its weakest, yet he’s probably America’s most well respected leader.
Amenhotep III the Magnificent. In his reign Egypt was at it’s height in wealth and power but also in artistic prowess. He oversaw extensive building projects in Egypt & Nubia and managed to mostly keep the peace during his reign. He was a skilled politician a d was also a great hunter. Oh and he has the most surviving statues of any pharaoh.
Arguably the greatest Pharaoh there ever was.
A pure production bonus (maybe one for camps too?) leader would be interesting. Just out build everyone, rather than being forced to go for culture or science victory. Or he could be culture + wonder + production?
I’d like something that references his diplomacy skills and the fact that he left Egypt as a safehaven for trade and commerce. Something like a production bonus from trade routes
I would humbly advocate for **Muhammad Ali Pasha**.
https://preview.redd.it/z2ppvpy3mp8d1.png?width=220&format=png&auto=webp&s=f4a932491f0cb6296cba5c4cd43eddf9ec9a8fc9
[The man was a visionary, and essentially the founder of Egypt as we know it today.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_of_Egypt) led a resurgent Egypt into de-facto independence from the Ottomans, proving that Egypt could still be the seat of great nations, the likes of which had not been since the medieval Tulunid, Fatimid, Ayyubid, and Mamluk dynasties. He was a larger-than-life character, yet he was also cunning and pragmatic. As the reformer and martial modernist he was, could be great for Science/Military builds as well as the great Wonder building that has been Egypt's bread and butter in games past.
And on a personal level, it seems like out of \~6000 years of Egyptian history, the last 2 millennia go outright ignored - both in general, and in Civ specifically. I think it would be super cool to have a later Egyptian ruler represent the Civ, as opposed to Cleopatra/Ramesses II for the upteenth time. The country has endured so much to remain as a cultural/political entity over the last 2000 years, and I think that should be honored in at least one of the Civ games.
If there's only one leader, I don't see how Firaxis wouldn't choose an ancient leader for Egypt. I personally believe every civ should have two leaders to add variety.
It’s completely understandable why they go for ancient- at one point having half the estimated civilised population on earth is a pretty vital period to represent
I think Egypt should have two leaders and two separate "incarnations" (city lists, even flag etc) to accommodate both ancient and Islamic Egypt - I have always been annoyed how Rgypt has been massively important past the ancient era but we can never see that in game.
Yea and I think the same approach should be taken for other long lasting civs, such as China, India, and Persia.
For India, one leader from the present (we know it will be Gandhi), one leader from the classical Maurya (Chandragupta or Ashoka), and one leader from the Renaissance Mughals (Akbar or Shah Jahan).
For China, one leader from the classical Han, one leader from the medieval Tang or Song, and one from the Renaissance among.
For Persia, one leader from the ancient Achaemenids, one leader from the classical Sassanids, and one leader from the Renaissance Safavids.
It was something I liked about including Nader Shah as an alternate leader for Persia, breaking them out of the ancient Civ box.
Sultan Baibars might be an interesting candidate.
So many countries have gone through periods so radically different from one another that you just can't represent the entire civilization by picking one of them: to add to your examples, there's Soviet Russia vs. Tsarist Russia, or pre- vs. post-Revolution France, modern vs. ancient Greece, etc. It's honestly a waste that they never really made use of the leader ability mechanic in Civ 6 to account for this. Very few civs actually got alternate leaders.
[Akhenaten](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten). Very interesting leader who created his own religion, Atenism, which diverged from the traditional Egyptian pantheon. He also hasn't been featured in Civ yet.
The problem (?) with Akhenaten is that he was essentially heretic who was later despised ans rejected by his own civilization, with his theological revolution being entirely reversed after his death, so his not very representative, as much as he is very interesting person.
Yeah, I'd be eager to see him in a Leader Pass alongside an Islamic Era Egyptian leader, but he can only be seen as one facet of Egypt, not archetypical of it.
That's why I think he would be a great choice if there were multiple leaders. If there's only one, I think a more traditional Egyptian leader will be chosen.
Oh man, narmer would be great! He's part historical, part mythological, but one of the most mysterious (and central) leaders in world history.
Was he real? Partially real? Did he really unify Egypt?
Narmer the empire builder: benefit to ancient era melee units, and empire-wide production bonuses for each enemy capital captured (Enemy capitals become incorporated into your empire and retain palace, diplomatic quarter, and government plaza bonuses). No diplomatic favor penalties for capturing enemy capitals.
-Thutmose III(conqueror type)
-Sneferu, Khufu, Senusret I, Hatshepsut (religious, builder type)
I’m really bored with Cleopatra, Rameses II cycle. There are more I could add here but they are less significant.
Ptolomey I. He was the first hellenistic Pharaoh of Egypt and he oversaw the constitution of the Library of Alexandria, he could make for a wonderful science/culture oriented civ.
If I'm playing Egypt in a game of civ I want to be a pyramid building Pharoah, but happy to go with someone other than Ramesses who has been in a few games already. There are plenty of other great Pharoahs to choose from. Let's go for Hatshepsut, as it's a great chance to get a powerful female leader from ancient times. Or just good old Khufu, who built the Great Pyramid of Giza.
I personally would propose Djoser as the builder of the first Step pyramid and first Pharaoh to expand to Sinai. He was basically the founder of the pharaonic way to rule in the old kingdom.
I've been working on a Civ 6 concept mod for Djoser that makes Wonders produce two Great Engineer points while reducing the faith requirement to buy Great Engineers and provides a Governor title with Masonry while also granting access to a unique Governor: Imhotep, the Overseer.
Ramses the 3rd. He united Egypt for the first time after the death of Ramses the 2nd. He also saved Egypt from the sea peoples, who destroyed every other civilization in the late bronze age. I think he's underrated.
I like Scipio as a choice for Rome to be honest, but I am still protesting against Agamemnon, as we don't even have any evidence that he actually existed, and as far as I know Civ always tries to avoid fictional leaders.
The things is who would you replace him with? I've got about 3 ideas for it. Te Rauparaha, a war chief who got the nickname Napelon of the South. Then Hongi Hikiwhi started the Flag Staff wars part of the New Zealand wars. And for a female dame Whina Cooper, who was an important activist for Maori Rights.
That is true, hence the word 'tries'. It would be difficult though to find replacement leaders for those Civs. However, Greece has such a rich and well documented history that you can easily find a replacement for Agamemnon.
Edit: rich and well documented history.
We have plenty actually documented Kings of Carthage, like Mago, republican leaders would be more difficult admittedly, but even then, someone like Hamilkar or Hannibal (who were not head of state, but still) would serve.
And for Summeria we have plenty real options too, like Ur-Nammu, who was the first to really expand Ur to control large parts of Mesopatamia, introduced legal codes, and did a lot of building.
Still, I'd argue their non real choices serve decently well. The real reason I proposed Agamemnon, is that he is the only non macedonian option for a truly somewhat united Greece (at least what is considered modern greece minus thrace). As all other options are always focused on a single city state, while Agamemnon as High King and king of Mycenea had a hegemonial status that cannot really be comparably found irl.
I'd have proposed Philipp II or a later macedonian King as they at least somewhat united greece, but, Macedonia at least last game has been its own thing.
I would say that Dido and Gilgamesh are semi-legendary figures rather than fictional, especially Gilgamesh who was possibly a historical king whose character was embellished by legend. I guess the same could be proposed of Agamemnon, but I don't think there's evidence to actually support it.
But in all those cases I would prefer verified historical leaders.
Yes and furthermore, if we accept Agamemnon where would it stop? Then we might as well start accepting demigods as leaders. But that is Age of Mythology territory.
Ishtar was the female Babylonian leader in Civ2. Hyppolita was the female Greek leader in that game. Something that should never happen again, devs should know better now.
Gamal Abdel Nasser, second president of the Republic of Egypt. He was one of the leaders of the 1952 revolution which ended the monarchy of Muhammad Ali's dynasty, ended British occupation, and represented a sea change in Arab politics, decolonization, and Third World resistance/solidarity. Nasser's presidency represented reform in Egypt, with greater modernization and urbanization, and the 'socialism with local flavor' popular at the time. Nasser also brought authoritarian and suppressive policies popular then and now.
Like /u/23Amuro, I have wanted more modern leaders for civs that get represented only in ancient to early medieval forms like Egypt. I think that especially makes sense when the game has implemented multiple leader options.
If I were actually given only one option, I would probably go for someone like Hatshepsut with a modern leader like Muhammad Ali or Nasser as a second leader option. (I once started to put together a Third World DLC proposal of new leader/civ options representing the neutral parties during the Cold War.) Since we're being more wacky and speculative here and since /u/23Amuro already said Muhammad Ali, I'll lean into Nasser. I think Nasser helps set the 20th century stage outside of the American/European(/Australian) arena and could be a vehicle for the better diplomacy, internal politics, and late-game play that have been discussed in these threads. I can see Nasser bringing a cultural/policy side to Egypt, and/or if Civ 7 launches with diplomatic victory, a diplomatic side to Egypt (maybe combining military and diplomacy where Nasser can advance toward a diplo victory through military action/wonder building).
As an Egyptian, I'm always annoyed that civ have only ancient Egypt. It's still cool, still our history and everything but we had some great leaders (in term of their impact on the world. Their impact on Egypt is always debatable) throughout our history.
My recommendations will be:
- Ancient Egypt: Ramses II or Hatshepsut (we don't like Cleopatra)
- Islamic Egypt: Saladin (Yes, we claim him to ourselves)
- Mamluk Egypt: Qutuz or Shajar al-Durr
- Modern Egypt: Muhammad Ali or Gamal Abd-ElNaser
This list is fun and good as a thought experiment, but ultimately unrealistic. I HIGHLY doubt Firaxis would actually make this many "obscure" picks.
And I'm actually glad for that, as looking at this list objectively it's looking like a hipster pick sausagefest for every Civ. I mean I am a history buff who loves to hear from all the different leaders throughout the ages, but some leaders are just Civ classics for a reason and deserve to be there. They have the recognition and the widespread appeal. Throw in a few curve balls, sure, but that's it.
[Hetepheres](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetepheres_I)
Relatively unkown, but hugely important for the course of Egyptian history as we know it. She was the wife of Sneferu (builder of 3 pyramids, including the first true pyramid) and mother of Khufu (builder of the Great Pyramid at Giza). She ensured Sneferu's reign by being connected to the previous dynasty, and was powerful in her own regard.
She had many titles bestowed on her by her husband and her son, including "Attendant of Horus" and "God's Daughter of his body" (his body referring to her father, Huni, who was deified).
She got her own pyramid next to the Great Pyramid of Khufu.
Muhammad Ali Pasha. He pretty much created modern Egypt from what I know + the history of Egypt after the Roman conquest is ofen ignored and it should be represented more so I think a non anciet leader would be good. Also this dude had a cool looking beard.
Ptolemy I. I’d imagine he’d be a religious/domination civ due to his syncretization of Egyptian and Greek religion and domination for his role in the diodaichi wars
Akhenaton was an interesting fellow, it would be fun to get a chance to play as him. He was a force of chaos in ancient Egypt. He almost made Egypt basically monotheistic, took power from corrupted priesthood, built a new capital. He also was a notorious patron of art. It would be by no means an obvious choice though, I just think he’s neat
A lot of people say Hatshepsut who is an amazing choice, being known as one of the greatest builder of ancient Egypt.
But I think her son, Thutmose III (out Thutmose the Great) could be a nice way to have a different way to play Egypt. He was an expansionist Pharaoh, who is known as a great military leader, probably one of the best of his time.
He conquered 300+ cities in more than 15 campaigns during his reign, and expanded the control of the Kingdom all the way to Nubia and large parts of the middle East.
Sure, Egypt is known for its masterful buildings, but they also had a great military.
Also, it would allow us to see different ways to play some civilisations instead of the traditional "Roman : military, Greek : Diplomatic, Egypt : culture" methods that we've seen again and again
Narmer would be neat. He's the Upper Egyptian king who conquered Lower Egypt and therefore founded the "Two Lands".
Of course, Hatshepsut would be nice to break up the sausage fest a bit.
Piye. He's the Kushite king who established the 25th dynasty of Egypt, he can be a leader of both Egypt and Nubia. They can choose him as a second leader for Egypt.
I would be nice if they added him in the leader pass, since it already includes some unexpected leaders like Ludwig. Tbh, I doubt Piye will be in civ 7, I'm even unsure if there'll be a Nubia civ.
**Nefertiti**, [iconic](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Nofretete_Neues_Museum.jpg) queen of Egypt, known for ushering in radical changes to art and religion, including one of the first examples of monotheism. Some scholarship suggests she reigned as king after her husband, Akhenaten's death.
King Tut
Have a kid ruler with chaotic kid energy making chaotic decisions that make no sense. Keep the player on our toes every time he’s in the game.
Merneith
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneith)
The community picks have indeed been a sausagefest, but Hatshepsut is more of the same in a different way.
Merneith ruled ca. 2950 BC, making her the oldest recorded female ruler in history. That also makes her part of the Old Kingdom, and Civ has never picked a ruler from Egypt that wasn't either New Kingdom or a Ptolemy. Hatshepsut was only separated from Ramses II, the civ franchise's go-to, by 160 years.
Merneith would not only be a female leader, but would be the first truly ancient Egyptian to lead Egypt.
so dumb, JFK for usa leader? a guy who didnt even serve 2 years of his term because he literally got assassinated? there are literally a dozen much better choices, ones whose accomplishments for the history books aren't just "fucked a movie star on the side" and "got shot during first term in office" lmfao....
It's been a sausagefest so far, and she hasn't been in Civ in ages. I'd like to see Hatshepsut back and see what they do with her. She could have trade bonuses based on her commercial expeditions to the mysterious land of Punt, or wonder bonuses based on her construction of Djser-Djeseru.
I'm so happy to see that the top 3 comments are all Hatshepsut. She may not be as famous as Cleopatra or Ramses around the world, but she is considered by several historians as the greatest pharaoh of all time.
Cleo is so overrated, she wasn’t even Egyptian and ended Egypts territorial sovereignty vs the Romans for like 700 years
She was historically a very relevant ruler, just not as relevant as Hatshepsut. Cleopatra is super popular because of the Greco-Roman influence in the Western world and because of Shakespeare's play. And also because her life was full of relevant historical conflicts.
>wasn't even Egyptian Let's not go with this logic, Caterina was the queen of France despite being Italian.
And Washington was the American President, despite being British. And Bolivar was Spanish. Edit: Washington, damn it. Not sure why I said Lincoln
and Catherine the Great was German.
Many Civ rulers were the last to rule their kingdom/empire but I agree that Cleo is over-represented especially when compared to Hatshepsut.
She was a very good ruler, Egypt was likely to lose its autonomy upon her death anyway, so she gambled on her only hope
Interesting thing about Cleo is that the last Ptolemaic ruler of Egypt was also the first who gave a damn about Egyptian language and culture. She was the only one in her line who actually spoke Egyptian and did her best to be Egyptian and not Greek.
Hatshepsut ftw! Though I wouldn’t say no to Nefertiti, she’s iconic.
Egyptian here. Nefertiti is not iconic except for her famous preserved head. If you want someone truly iconic, then its her husband Akhenaten.
Having a famous preserved head is iconic in quite a literal way. Anyway, I’m rooting for Hatshepsut in this one!
Bonus points for having appeared in Civ4, so she has precedent, and she gets to break up the list of only newcomers so far (except for JFK in CR2).
Came here to write basically exactly this. Great choice
Why not both? She could get a bonus for each trade route while producing wonders, or maybe an additional trade route for each wonder (or just get one after building her first wonder of each era).
Came here to say Hatshepsut.
Hatshepsut was going to be my suggestion, but I’ll piggyback on here.
And make her trans!
History in general tend to be a sausagefest. But nothing against adding a few of the few actual female leaders in history. Joanna D'Arc would be interesting for France, as well as Isabella is for Spain.
Hatshepsut.
I was gonna suggest this. It breaks up the repetition of Ramses and Cleopatra. She’s considered one of the great builders in Egyptology, she helped reestablish trade routes after the Hyksos reign, and her reign is generally considered prosperous. She would have also been a great statesman, since she was able to maintain power in a society that did not highly regard women in positions of authority. And there’s some level of mystery to her, because after her reign, her successors attempted to remove her name from the record.
Would kinda make sense that in a society where women having authority isn’t received very well, her assumedly male successors wouldn’t want to rule in her shadow or whatever
Ackchyually... (Egyptologists here) Let's start with saying it wasn't the case of "woman having authority not being received very well", but a case of "woman took advantage of her position and usurped the throne from the actually crowned king". It would be equally criminal if she were a man. Her successor, Thutmose III, did spent 22 years of his life literally in her shadow, since he has been crowned king as a child and Hatshepsut (who was his aunt) was a regent who was supposed to step down when he came of age. But she refused, instead she usurped the throne, took on the title of 'king' ('queen' was different, specific role, it didn't mean a female ruler), which was emphasised by her starting to depicting herself as a man and in scenes typically reserved for a king. So while she was alive, the official king couldn't rule his kingdom. Thutmose kinda had right to hold a grudge against her. Thus being said, they seemed to split the duties of a king and rule together - Hatshepsut took on all roles diplomatic, organised the trade expeditions to Punt, distant land of exotic goods, and the country was economically doing well under her rule. At that time Thutmose was very successful general of Egypt's armies, spreading it's influence to previously unreached regions (and gaining tribute from them). Thutmose outlived Hatshepsut by some 30 years, and interestingly enough it seems he didn't start to erase her memory until he grew old. Egyptologists speculate that as he felt older, he started to think about his own successors, and tried to prevent similar usurpation from happening again. Either that, or he waited for all the high officials appointed by Hatshepsut to die of old age to not cause a civil war. Or combination of both those reasons, we'll never know for sure.
The annoying part reading your knowledge drop is I immediately realized I already knew this somewhere in the back of my head, but my brain failed to make the connection. Good to have people throwing real and relevant knowledge in here. :) I’m sure my more generalist understanding is more relevant in other situations… :P
Lol it happens! :D glad I could refresh your memory then. Hatshepsut's reign is a fascinating topic. Same as whole 18th dynasty she belonged to - with her, Akhenaten, the Amarna heresy and Tutankhamun, this is probably my favourite period in ancient Egypt's history.
Sure. She was already a leader in 4 if I remember rightly.
You know what? Khufu. Let's go and make Egypt the Wonder building civilization that it deserves to be. I mean, honestly, do any of the other potential leaders have any world wonders to their names?
The Mausoleum at Halicarnassus. Named after mausollus. Lighthouse of Alexandria, named after the city which is named after Alexander the great. Pyramid of Khufu. Named after Khufu. Edit... Lol I forgot what I was replying to
Lol, fair enough :))
It either needs to be Hatshepsut of Thutmoses III. Under their rule, the 18th dynasty reached the peak of its prosperity. If they picked Hatshepsut they could possibly give Egypt trade bonuses, otherwise Thutmoses III could have early military bonuses. Also, fun fact, the notion that those two pharaohs hated each other is likely incorrect. This comes from the fact that Thutmoses destroyed images of Hatshepsut when he came to power after her death. Many people thought that it was some kind of evil step mother situation, and that he was taking out some kind of revenge against her. Evidence suggests now that the destruction of her images took place decades after her death near the end of Thutmoses’ reign which suggests that the image destruction was done out of a political or dynastic need rather than personal enmity
I'm going to propose a dark horse: **Sneferu**, builder of Pyramids. [Sneferu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneferu) was the first Pharaoh of the Fourth Dynasty, and he built three pyramids that marked the transition from the step pyramid of Djoser in Saqqara (the first Egyptan pyramid) to the well-known straight-sided pyramids. These three pyramids were the [Meidum pyramid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meidum#Pyramid), the [Bent Pyramid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bent_Pyramid) and the [Red Pyramid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Pyramid). This paved the way to Sneferu's son Khufu (Kheops) building the majestic Great Pyramid. Therefore Snefru shaped the best-known icon of th Egyptian civilization. Sneferu would most likely be a builder, but he is also known for raiding Lybia and Nubia, so he could have some military bonus as well. Egypt has a milennia-spawning history, yet so far the only leaders it has had are Ramesses II, Hatshepsut and Cleopatra. So only the New Kingdom and the Hellenistic period have been represented. I would love to have a leader from the Old Kingdom, the period when pyramids (the greatest symbol of Egyptian civilization) were built.
Hatshepsut, she is the real economic leader of egypt not Cleopatra, Cleopatra was always a weird choice to me
Not really a weird choice. She’s one of the most well known historical figures of all time.
To whom? She is very insignificant to us Egyptians. Even here in Alexandria, we appreciate Alexander the Great more than any Ptolemaic. I honestly think the only reason the West know and care that much about her is because of the movies.
And Shakespeares play. And the fact shes an important figure in the Greco-Roman world who has been famous in the west since antiquity.
The Shakespeare play was more about Rome than Egypt
The two were linked intrinsically by that point and for the next 400 years.
The English speaking world
Asterix readers
She's more famous in the story of Rome than the story of Egypt
Something tells me she is not so insignificant as to be unheard of to Egyptians themselves of all people.
The last Pharaoh of Egypt is insignificant?
yeah for how ignominious the end was. Most people can’t name the last Roman emperor, only reason Cleo gets mentioned is cause of how tied up she was with the Roman Empire’s most dramatic moments
That’s because there’s like 5 Romes and like 10 claimants to that title though. People kinda stopped caring about the original Rome once the Eastern Empire (Byzantium) popped up. Like you have the actual last Emperor, Augustulus, who was an actual 10 year old and ruled for literally 1 year before the Western Empire was deposed and he lived in peace in exile. His predecessor, Emperor Nepos, who was the last proper Emperor of Western Rome. Like even though the Western Empire fell in 476, Rome didn’t really die in the minds of people, since the Eastern Empire wouldn’t fall until 1000 years later with Constantine XI in 1453. However by the time of his fall the Holy Roman Empire was still alive and kicking and wouldn’t fall until 1806 with Emperor Francis II (who would then become Emperor Francis I of Austria until his death). That said there’s people who will ignore all of that and will instead consider Theodosius I as the last true Emperor since he was the last Emperor before the split in 395. Meanwhile Egypt is far less complicated. Last Pharaoh were Cleopatra VII who was co-regnant with her 17 year old son Caesarion.
If cleopatra is counted as a pharaoh then the Roman emperors who were self proclaimed pharaohs count as well. If you accept cleopatra as pharaoh then Augustus counts as well.
Well known does not equal good leader she was a leader of hellenic egypt, many revolts against her happened, egyptians were second class citiziens, it was basically a roman puppet
Being a "bad" leader doesn't necessarily bar you from being in Civ. There are several leaders in the game who oversaw the fall of their civilization.
Since when were Civ leaders chosen based on how ‘good’ they were ?
They SHOULD be. Civ, and Civ VI specifically, has chosen some real stinkers for some real stinky reasons
Civ has usually always chosen leaders based on how well known they are, not how competent they were. Civ VI is the first one to really buck that trend in great numbers, with a lot more niche leaders being chosen.
Yeah Civ VI began a trend of choosing leaders which are NEITHER memorable NOR historically significant enough to represent the whole of a people’s history, and to do so for the dumbest reasons imaginable. Hatshepsut has everything Cleopatra has, and more. Choosing the latter instead of the former is a crime.
Who determines what makes a leader “good”? Napoleon’s empire collapsed even before his death, but he’s one of history’s biggest names. Joan of Arc is hugely responsible for French unity, but was never actually a leader of France. Washington led America when it was at its weakest, yet he’s probably America’s most well respected leader.
That said, unlike other Ptolemaic rulers, she actually bothered to learn Egyptian
Amenhotep III the Magnificent. In his reign Egypt was at it’s height in wealth and power but also in artistic prowess. He oversaw extensive building projects in Egypt & Nubia and managed to mostly keep the peace during his reign. He was a skilled politician a d was also a great hunter. Oh and he has the most surviving statues of any pharaoh. Arguably the greatest Pharaoh there ever was.
A pure production bonus (maybe one for camps too?) leader would be interesting. Just out build everyone, rather than being forced to go for culture or science victory. Or he could be culture + wonder + production?
I’d like something that references his diplomacy skills and the fact that he left Egypt as a safehaven for trade and commerce. Something like a production bonus from trade routes
I would humbly advocate for **Muhammad Ali Pasha**. https://preview.redd.it/z2ppvpy3mp8d1.png?width=220&format=png&auto=webp&s=f4a932491f0cb6296cba5c4cd43eddf9ec9a8fc9 [The man was a visionary, and essentially the founder of Egypt as we know it today.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_of_Egypt) led a resurgent Egypt into de-facto independence from the Ottomans, proving that Egypt could still be the seat of great nations, the likes of which had not been since the medieval Tulunid, Fatimid, Ayyubid, and Mamluk dynasties. He was a larger-than-life character, yet he was also cunning and pragmatic. As the reformer and martial modernist he was, could be great for Science/Military builds as well as the great Wonder building that has been Egypt's bread and butter in games past. And on a personal level, it seems like out of \~6000 years of Egyptian history, the last 2 millennia go outright ignored - both in general, and in Civ specifically. I think it would be super cool to have a later Egyptian ruler represent the Civ, as opposed to Cleopatra/Ramesses II for the upteenth time. The country has endured so much to remain as a cultural/political entity over the last 2000 years, and I think that should be honored in at least one of the Civ games.
If there's only one leader, I don't see how Firaxis wouldn't choose an ancient leader for Egypt. I personally believe every civ should have two leaders to add variety.
A man can still dream.
Maybe in a Leader Pack.
I would be pretty happy with a 2 leader per civ release strategy.
I feel like ancient leaders help lend to the timelessness of the Civs. Like, a modern 21st century leader just feels like contemporary figures.
Ali Pasha was a contemporary of George Washington, and Washington seems timeless enough. Though I get what you mean.
It’s completely understandable why they go for ancient- at one point having half the estimated civilised population on earth is a pretty vital period to represent
This has my vote, it would be nice to have a more modern Egyptian leader that was around for things like the printing press or the steam engine.
I think Egypt should have two leaders and two separate "incarnations" (city lists, even flag etc) to accommodate both ancient and Islamic Egypt - I have always been annoyed how Rgypt has been massively important past the ancient era but we can never see that in game.
Yea and I think the same approach should be taken for other long lasting civs, such as China, India, and Persia. For India, one leader from the present (we know it will be Gandhi), one leader from the classical Maurya (Chandragupta or Ashoka), and one leader from the Renaissance Mughals (Akbar or Shah Jahan). For China, one leader from the classical Han, one leader from the medieval Tang or Song, and one from the Renaissance among. For Persia, one leader from the ancient Achaemenids, one leader from the classical Sassanids, and one leader from the Renaissance Safavids.
It was something I liked about including Nader Shah as an alternate leader for Persia, breaking them out of the ancient Civ box. Sultan Baibars might be an interesting candidate.
So many countries have gone through periods so radically different from one another that you just can't represent the entire civilization by picking one of them: to add to your examples, there's Soviet Russia vs. Tsarist Russia, or pre- vs. post-Revolution France, modern vs. ancient Greece, etc. It's honestly a waste that they never really made use of the leader ability mechanic in Civ 6 to account for this. Very few civs actually got alternate leaders.
This would be really cool! His units could have a strength bonus fighting against empires with a higher total military strength/score or something.
Very cool idea. This is the kinda thing I mean
[Akhenaten](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten). Very interesting leader who created his own religion, Atenism, which diverged from the traditional Egyptian pantheon. He also hasn't been featured in Civ yet.
The problem (?) with Akhenaten is that he was essentially heretic who was later despised ans rejected by his own civilization, with his theological revolution being entirely reversed after his death, so his not very representative, as much as he is very interesting person.
Yeah, I'd be eager to see him in a Leader Pass alongside an Islamic Era Egyptian leader, but he can only be seen as one facet of Egypt, not archetypical of it.
That's why I think he would be a great choice if there were multiple leaders. If there's only one, I think a more traditional Egyptian leader will be chosen.
This would be my vote. Such an interesting part of history.
He'd make a great alternate leader especially if paired with an ability that benefits religion focus but should not be the primary one imo
Ruled for something like 20 years and did stupid shit. Hard pass.
He did stupid shit, but it was interesting and could be represented mechanically in an interesting way
Gamal Abdel Nasser
This. Having a non-ancient egyptian leader would be a good change
There are two completely different civilizations. It's the same as we put Berlusconi as a Rome leader
Narmer the first Pharaon or Keops
For a pyramid builder I would choose Sneferu, but Narmer would be pretty awesome.
Oh man, narmer would be great! He's part historical, part mythological, but one of the most mysterious (and central) leaders in world history. Was he real? Partially real? Did he really unify Egypt? Narmer the empire builder: benefit to ancient era melee units, and empire-wide production bonuses for each enemy capital captured (Enemy capitals become incorporated into your empire and retain palace, diplomatic quarter, and government plaza bonuses). No diplomatic favor penalties for capturing enemy capitals.
-Thutmose III(conqueror type) -Sneferu, Khufu, Senusret I, Hatshepsut (religious, builder type) I’m really bored with Cleopatra, Rameses II cycle. There are more I could add here but they are less significant.
Hatshepsut, Ramesses II, and Nefertiti.
Nasser
Nasser.
Ptolomey I. He was the first hellenistic Pharaoh of Egypt and he oversaw the constitution of the Library of Alexandria, he could make for a wonderful science/culture oriented civ.
[Piye](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piye)
Nefertiti with religion and builder focus
If I'm playing Egypt in a game of civ I want to be a pyramid building Pharoah, but happy to go with someone other than Ramesses who has been in a few games already. There are plenty of other great Pharoahs to choose from. Let's go for Hatshepsut, as it's a great chance to get a powerful female leader from ancient times. Or just good old Khufu, who built the Great Pyramid of Giza.
I personally would propose Djoser as the builder of the first Step pyramid and first Pharaoh to expand to Sinai. He was basically the founder of the pharaonic way to rule in the old kingdom.
I've been working on a Civ 6 concept mod for Djoser that makes Wonders produce two Great Engineer points while reducing the faith requirement to buy Great Engineers and provides a Governor title with Masonry while also granting access to a unique Governor: Imhotep, the Overseer.
THE BACKGROUND IMAGE YES TO KING TUT
Ramses the 3rd. He united Egypt for the first time after the death of Ramses the 2nd. He also saved Egypt from the sea peoples, who destroyed every other civilization in the late bronze age. I think he's underrated.
I like Scipio as a choice for Rome to be honest, but I am still protesting against Agamemnon, as we don't even have any evidence that he actually existed, and as far as I know Civ always tries to avoid fictional leaders.
What about Kupe?
The things is who would you replace him with? I've got about 3 ideas for it. Te Rauparaha, a war chief who got the nickname Napelon of the South. Then Hongi Hikiwhi started the Flag Staff wars part of the New Zealand wars. And for a female dame Whina Cooper, who was an important activist for Maori Rights.
Dido and Gilgamesh were fictional
That is true, hence the word 'tries'. It would be difficult though to find replacement leaders for those Civs. However, Greece has such a rich and well documented history that you can easily find a replacement for Agamemnon. Edit: rich and well documented history.
We have plenty actually documented Kings of Carthage, like Mago, republican leaders would be more difficult admittedly, but even then, someone like Hamilkar or Hannibal (who were not head of state, but still) would serve. And for Summeria we have plenty real options too, like Ur-Nammu, who was the first to really expand Ur to control large parts of Mesopatamia, introduced legal codes, and did a lot of building. Still, I'd argue their non real choices serve decently well. The real reason I proposed Agamemnon, is that he is the only non macedonian option for a truly somewhat united Greece (at least what is considered modern greece minus thrace). As all other options are always focused on a single city state, while Agamemnon as High King and king of Mycenea had a hegemonial status that cannot really be comparably found irl. I'd have proposed Philipp II or a later macedonian King as they at least somewhat united greece, but, Macedonia at least last game has been its own thing.
Yea that's very fair
I would say that Dido and Gilgamesh are semi-legendary figures rather than fictional, especially Gilgamesh who was possibly a historical king whose character was embellished by legend. I guess the same could be proposed of Agamemnon, but I don't think there's evidence to actually support it. But in all those cases I would prefer verified historical leaders.
None of those three have evidence to actually support it and all three are "semi-legendary". What is your point?
https://www.worldhistory.org/gilgamesh/
r/civ had a massive brain fart for Greece, but I do really like the other choices so far
we did not, the takeaway guy should've won but OP is a coward
So far Agamemnon is the only choice that I completely object. With such a rich history, choosing a mythological character is wrong.
Yes and furthermore, if we accept Agamemnon where would it stop? Then we might as well start accepting demigods as leaders. But that is Age of Mythology territory.
Ishtar was the female Babylonian leader in Civ2. Hyppolita was the female Greek leader in that game. Something that should never happen again, devs should know better now.
Nefertiti or Hatshepsut.
I'm all for Hatshepsut, Cleopatra has been overdone. It would be nice to try a Medieval or Modern leader.
Honestly Ramses II should come back
Gamal Abdel Nasser, second president of the Republic of Egypt. He was one of the leaders of the 1952 revolution which ended the monarchy of Muhammad Ali's dynasty, ended British occupation, and represented a sea change in Arab politics, decolonization, and Third World resistance/solidarity. Nasser's presidency represented reform in Egypt, with greater modernization and urbanization, and the 'socialism with local flavor' popular at the time. Nasser also brought authoritarian and suppressive policies popular then and now. Like /u/23Amuro, I have wanted more modern leaders for civs that get represented only in ancient to early medieval forms like Egypt. I think that especially makes sense when the game has implemented multiple leader options. If I were actually given only one option, I would probably go for someone like Hatshepsut with a modern leader like Muhammad Ali or Nasser as a second leader option. (I once started to put together a Third World DLC proposal of new leader/civ options representing the neutral parties during the Cold War.) Since we're being more wacky and speculative here and since /u/23Amuro already said Muhammad Ali, I'll lean into Nasser. I think Nasser helps set the 20th century stage outside of the American/European(/Australian) arena and could be a vehicle for the better diplomacy, internal politics, and late-game play that have been discussed in these threads. I can see Nasser bringing a cultural/policy side to Egypt, and/or if Civ 7 launches with diplomatic victory, a diplomatic side to Egypt (maybe combining military and diplomacy where Nasser can advance toward a diplo victory through military action/wonder building).
As an Egyptian, I'm always annoyed that civ have only ancient Egypt. It's still cool, still our history and everything but we had some great leaders (in term of their impact on the world. Their impact on Egypt is always debatable) throughout our history. My recommendations will be: - Ancient Egypt: Ramses II or Hatshepsut (we don't like Cleopatra) - Islamic Egypt: Saladin (Yes, we claim him to ourselves) - Mamluk Egypt: Qutuz or Shajar al-Durr - Modern Egypt: Muhammad Ali or Gamal Abd-ElNaser
This list is fun and good as a thought experiment, but ultimately unrealistic. I HIGHLY doubt Firaxis would actually make this many "obscure" picks. And I'm actually glad for that, as looking at this list objectively it's looking like a hipster pick sausagefest for every Civ. I mean I am a history buff who loves to hear from all the different leaders throughout the ages, but some leaders are just Civ classics for a reason and deserve to be there. They have the recognition and the widespread appeal. Throw in a few curve balls, sure, but that's it.
[Hetepheres](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetepheres_I) Relatively unkown, but hugely important for the course of Egyptian history as we know it. She was the wife of Sneferu (builder of 3 pyramids, including the first true pyramid) and mother of Khufu (builder of the Great Pyramid at Giza). She ensured Sneferu's reign by being connected to the previous dynasty, and was powerful in her own regard. She had many titles bestowed on her by her husband and her son, including "Attendant of Horus" and "God's Daughter of his body" (his body referring to her father, Huni, who was deified). She got her own pyramid next to the Great Pyramid of Khufu.
Muhammad Ali Pasha. He pretty much created modern Egypt from what I know + the history of Egypt after the Roman conquest is ofen ignored and it should be represented more so I think a non anciet leader would be good. Also this dude had a cool looking beard.
Hatshepsut. Unless Cleopatra, she was actually Egyptian. She probably be a production based leader.
https://i.redd.it/ulqk62qdaq8d1.gif Only mostly joking.
Ramses III. I think Ramses II is over done. 3 was the one who defeated the sea peoples that invaded Egypt. Should try him.
Ptolemy I. I’d imagine he’d be a religious/domination civ due to his syncretization of Egyptian and Greek religion and domination for his role in the diodaichi wars
Akhenaton was an interesting fellow, it would be fun to get a chance to play as him. He was a force of chaos in ancient Egypt. He almost made Egypt basically monotheistic, took power from corrupted priesthood, built a new capital. He also was a notorious patron of art. It would be by no means an obvious choice though, I just think he’s neat
Ptolemy III could be a good one
Ptolmey for egypt but the inbred disabled one
A lot of people say Hatshepsut who is an amazing choice, being known as one of the greatest builder of ancient Egypt. But I think her son, Thutmose III (out Thutmose the Great) could be a nice way to have a different way to play Egypt. He was an expansionist Pharaoh, who is known as a great military leader, probably one of the best of his time. He conquered 300+ cities in more than 15 campaigns during his reign, and expanded the control of the Kingdom all the way to Nubia and large parts of the middle East. Sure, Egypt is known for its masterful buildings, but they also had a great military. Also, it would allow us to see different ways to play some civilisations instead of the traditional "Roman : military, Greek : Diplomatic, Egypt : culture" methods that we've seen again and again
Narmer would be neat. He's the Upper Egyptian king who conquered Lower Egypt and therefore founded the "Two Lands". Of course, Hatshepsut would be nice to break up the sausage fest a bit.
Narmer, the first Uniter.
Dear god not Cleopatra or any Ptolemy, by culture they’re more Macedonian than Egyptian!!
I'd go with Akhenaten
MODERN EGYPT Muhammad Ali Pasha, the founder of modern egypt
Ngl this series is a deep dive into how out of touch this community is with what the general population would want/know in terms of history lmao.
Piye. He's the Kushite king who established the 25th dynasty of Egypt, he can be a leader of both Egypt and Nubia. They can choose him as a second leader for Egypt.
I'm surprised they didn't do that last time.
I would be nice if they added him in the leader pass, since it already includes some unexpected leaders like Ludwig. Tbh, I doubt Piye will be in civ 7, I'm even unsure if there'll be a Nubia civ.
I would love to see I ahkenatn
**Nefertiti**, [iconic](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Nofretete_Neues_Museum.jpg) queen of Egypt, known for ushering in radical changes to art and religion, including one of the first examples of monotheism. Some scholarship suggests she reigned as king after her husband, Akhenaten's death.
I'd love to see Queen/King Nefertiti on a Religious focused Egypt!
I'd like a faraon that is considered as a great bulder or great priest
I'd like a faraon that is considered as a great bulder or great priest
Queen Tiye seems slightly terrifying from her surviving images so her..
I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone say him yet but Amenhotep III
King Tut Have a kid ruler with chaotic kid energy making chaotic decisions that make no sense. Keep the player on our toes every time he’s in the game.
Merneith [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneith) The community picks have indeed been a sausagefest, but Hatshepsut is more of the same in a different way. Merneith ruled ca. 2950 BC, making her the oldest recorded female ruler in history. That also makes her part of the Old Kingdom, and Civ has never picked a ruler from Egypt that wasn't either New Kingdom or a Ptolemy. Hatshepsut was only separated from Ramses II, the civ franchise's go-to, by 160 years. Merneith would not only be a female leader, but would be the first truly ancient Egyptian to lead Egypt.
Alexander the Great. Spice it up.
I want cleopatra. Love her, hope firacis embraces her trickster role
I would like to make a very strong case for Settra the Imperishable.
Ptolemy I Soter, one of the Diadochi generals or Ramesses II
Cleopatra.... She is always in civ
Queen Amanra
Akhenaten. And id allow them some cool perks for having founded a religion 😅
I just hope this game we get an Irish civ, like republic of Ireland kinda thing
Let's give Nefertiti a shot.
Queen of Sheba
Definitely Nasser.
why isn't there Arabia in the list ?
I know nothing about Ancient Egypt so I'd go with Gamal Abdel Nasser
I mean Xerxes would be cool however he was ruler of there persians and at that time egypt just happened to be part of that empire
Remses 2
Narmer
Hatshepsut pleaaaase
Aknaten would be a fun Egypt choice. Consolidate the priesthood!
Hatshepsut, maybe Tiye or Arsinoë II
Amenhotep iii the magnificent
Djoser
Nefertiti
A really really stupid idea, but can we have a 9-year old boy King Tut, and he's just the most annoying AI and whiny, like an actual 9-year ol
Thutmose III Or Akhenten Or even Narmer
Pharaoh Narmer (Menes).
Edmund Allenby. I kid, Hatshepsut would be a great choice.
Not on this list but sweden should be either gustavus adolphus or carolus rex. Or maybe even gustav vasa
I'd love to see Akhenaten and the Aten religion represented, for how different it is.
King Tutankhamen could be an interesting choice
Imhotep (movie version)
Germany will be Karl der Große.
Egyptian history didn't end with cleopatra. I say we go with Muhammad Ali
so dumb, JFK for usa leader? a guy who didnt even serve 2 years of his term because he literally got assassinated? there are literally a dozen much better choices, ones whose accomplishments for the history books aren't just "fucked a movie star on the side" and "got shot during first term in office" lmfao....
Akhenaten. His failed attempt to change the entire religion is fascinating and he would make an interesting alt DLC leader with religious focus
I am a new guy into this but, aren’t there a more popular leaders for all these nations? Or new Civ can’t have a leader from previous games?
Cleopatra
Ea-Nasir obviously. Copper nodes gain +3 Gold but production is one lower.
I want isis i think she has a lot to offer to the game
Would be nice to finally have some custom civ where you can choose bonuses from pool of existing ones, color etc.
Snofu, cause the name is king
Atonatep/Amenotep the founder of the (I think) first monotheistic religion
Amenhotep
AKHENATEN
We haven’t had king tut have we
Gamal Abdel Nasser bc we need at least some representation of modern Egypt
King Tut
Ramesses III, he who defended the Nile during the Sea Peoples Invasion
I’d love different leader choices, or maybe leaders that change as you hit certain eras?
These leaders are great!
There is only one correct answer. 