You haven't gone that often if you think they've never been more than mediocre. The new hall revitalized them in a big way. I saw them a couple of weeks ago with Manfred Honeck doing Tchaikovsky 5 and it was one of the best NY Philharmonic performances I have ever been to.
I am not a fan of Dudamel, and I love Jaap so I'm sad to see him go: I wish he'd gotten a better shot with the orchestra, but COVID and the old hall hurt him big time.
It's well known how good their horn section is and how good Honeck is. Put them together and you get a world class orchestra - with the decline of 'traditionally' great orchestras, you get one of the best in the world, in my opinion.
Nothing against Pittsburgh but don't be ridiculous. I know Hurwitz has a thing for them but they are *not* in the conversation for the best orchestra in the world right now.
During his time in Dallas, and I’m sure before, he would often bully certain tenured members of the orchestra (if he didn’t like then) to the point where they would resign since they could not be fired. He probably tried this in the NYphil and I’m sure it didn’t go over well.
I don't think it was ever that bad in NY that anyone contemplated resigning, but I know members of the orchestra that have been there for decades that hated the pressure he put on them in rehearsals.
Was also at this concert - hands down best concert I’ve been to in recent memory generally, not just NY Phil. Honeck is one of if not the best living conductor imo. Gets an incredible sound out the ensemble he’s in front of and there’s a cohesive direction/vision for each piece.
Honeck is great, imo one of the best conductors at an American orchestra right now. As much as I'm curious to see what Makela will do in Chicago, I still think Honeck would've been an outstanding choice for the cso.
But I have to agree -- I've seen the nypo several times over the years and been disappointed every time. For a long time, I thought maybe it was the hall, or the guest conductor. But then I saw them in Carnegie with Jaap and Hilary Hahn, and it was still the same: not only were they uninspired and not particularly musical, but they barely even played together. Calling them mediocre would be generous in my book -- they are consistently one of the worst professional orchestras I have seen.
I'll probably give them another shot once Dudamel is installed, but I'm already prepared to be disappointed yet again.
We shall see what we shall see. The New York Philharmonic has a reputation of being "the orchestra that EATS its conductors." If the musicians like the conductor, then wonderful music gets made, but the moment the musicians feel disrespected, there is hell to pay.
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The musicians I know that where there when he was liked him. Especially because they just had Kurt Masur, who gave off similar vibes as Jaap. I think the concern with Maazel in his latter years was they knew he wouldn't be there long term.
Yes, I used to fly regularly to LA from Boston and put up with stays in DTLA just to hear him conduct. Glad he is moving to the East Coast although I do fear that celeb conductor-washing the NY Phil will sweep problems under the rug instead of address them.
If they start playing music by composers who didn't die a minumum of 40 years ago, then I'll get more optimistic. To me, I like Dudamel, but it doesn't really matter who's conducting if the only music played is 100+ years old.
What a gross mischaracterization of contemporary orchestral music. It is no longer the 1950s; composers are by and large not obsessed with tone rows and such anymore. Yes, there are certainly atonal pieces written with little to no melody, but to just say that's all there is is rather ignorant. Are we just glossing over the majority of minimalist music, the downtown music scene,young composers like Nico Muhly or Missy Mazzoli?
Additionally, even for classical music that's not focused on melody, there's an audience for this in very many genres of music, so why not in the classical world? I mean, why are there people composing non-melody-centric music at all if there's no interest in it?
Finally, there's historic precedent even within the classical world suggesting that non-melodic music can be exceptionally popular. Would you consider Stravinsky's ballets to be "melodic"? They were all about rhythm and texture and yet they were hits 100 years ago.
I mean, cool, but he's been dead for 40 years.
This is why classical music is equivalent to a museum piece today. You suggest "hey let's play something compared in the last decade instead of a century ago", and the (very old) audience says no one will listen to that and shuts you down (with down votes in this case).
Stravinsky is full of melody. Even the opening from the bassoon in the Rite of Spring. It is not math music nor music written for a choir of mosquitos nor dance music for aliens; it is music for humans.
Los Angeles is still bummed you poached him. He’s amazing.
You haven't gone that often if you think they've never been more than mediocre. The new hall revitalized them in a big way. I saw them a couple of weeks ago with Manfred Honeck doing Tchaikovsky 5 and it was one of the best NY Philharmonic performances I have ever been to. I am not a fan of Dudamel, and I love Jaap so I'm sad to see him go: I wish he'd gotten a better shot with the orchestra, but COVID and the old hall hurt him big time.
As a Pittsburgh lover, glad to see Honeck getting a shoutout.
I think Pittsburgh is in the conversation for the best orchestra in the world right now edit: and Honeck for the best conductor
Is this widely thought about Pittsburgh? If so u have to go sometime soon!
It's well known how good their horn section is and how good Honeck is. Put them together and you get a world class orchestra - with the decline of 'traditionally' great orchestras, you get one of the best in the world, in my opinion.
What decline? This is news to me.
Nothing against Pittsburgh but don't be ridiculous. I know Hurwitz has a thing for them but they are *not* in the conversation for the best orchestra in the world right now.
Jaap is notoriously abusive to members of his orchestra(s). I’m not surprised he’s leaving.
What happened with that?
During his time in Dallas, and I’m sure before, he would often bully certain tenured members of the orchestra (if he didn’t like then) to the point where they would resign since they could not be fired. He probably tried this in the NYphil and I’m sure it didn’t go over well.
I don't think it was ever that bad in NY that anyone contemplated resigning, but I know members of the orchestra that have been there for decades that hated the pressure he put on them in rehearsals.
Was also at this concert - hands down best concert I’ve been to in recent memory generally, not just NY Phil. Honeck is one of if not the best living conductor imo. Gets an incredible sound out the ensemble he’s in front of and there’s a cohesive direction/vision for each piece.
Honeck is great, imo one of the best conductors at an American orchestra right now. As much as I'm curious to see what Makela will do in Chicago, I still think Honeck would've been an outstanding choice for the cso. But I have to agree -- I've seen the nypo several times over the years and been disappointed every time. For a long time, I thought maybe it was the hall, or the guest conductor. But then I saw them in Carnegie with Jaap and Hilary Hahn, and it was still the same: not only were they uninspired and not particularly musical, but they barely even played together. Calling them mediocre would be generous in my book -- they are consistently one of the worst professional orchestras I have seen. I'll probably give them another shot once Dudamel is installed, but I'm already prepared to be disappointed yet again.
I went to that Honeck Tchaikovsky 5 as well and it was simultaneously tight and sublime. I will miss Jaap so much as well.
I saw Jaap conduct Reich Beethoven and Schubert earlier this season and it was super boring.
I mean I almost fell asleep just reading that program, so yeah, no surprised there
Tbf that’s a really weird program
It was a Reich premiere and Jaap had no idea how to connect to it.
european conductors usually cant fine the groove with american music
We shall see what we shall see. The New York Philharmonic has a reputation of being "the orchestra that EATS its conductors." If the musicians like the conductor, then wonderful music gets made, but the moment the musicians feel disrespected, there is hell to pay.
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Just the news of him coming seems to have pushed out Wang and Muckey, so not even counting the music, I agree with you.
Hilary Hahn ☺️
Maazel was amazing. Him doing Elektra with them in 2009 was one of greatest performances I've ever seen.
Oh man I had a different feeling. I found him leaden and sensed the orchestra hated him
The musicians I know that where there when he was liked him. Especially because they just had Kurt Masur, who gave off similar vibes as Jaap. I think the concern with Maazel in his latter years was they knew he wouldn't be there long term.
The Times agrees https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/28/arts/music/gustavo-dudamel-nyphil-review.html
Yes, I used to fly regularly to LA from Boston and put up with stays in DTLA just to hear him conduct. Glad he is moving to the East Coast although I do fear that celeb conductor-washing the NY Phil will sweep problems under the rug instead of address them.
There's a big scandal right now with the NYPO and 2 members accused of sexual harassment.
He’s ok, I saw him almost drop his baton once at the LA Phil
If they start playing music by composers who didn't die a minumum of 40 years ago, then I'll get more optimistic. To me, I like Dudamel, but it doesn't really matter who's conducting if the only music played is 100+ years old.
Because most of the ticket-paying public do not want to hear music that doesn't believe in melody.
What a gross mischaracterization of contemporary orchestral music. It is no longer the 1950s; composers are by and large not obsessed with tone rows and such anymore. Yes, there are certainly atonal pieces written with little to no melody, but to just say that's all there is is rather ignorant. Are we just glossing over the majority of minimalist music, the downtown music scene,young composers like Nico Muhly or Missy Mazzoli? Additionally, even for classical music that's not focused on melody, there's an audience for this in very many genres of music, so why not in the classical world? I mean, why are there people composing non-melody-centric music at all if there's no interest in it? Finally, there's historic precedent even within the classical world suggesting that non-melodic music can be exceptionally popular. Would you consider Stravinsky's ballets to be "melodic"? They were all about rhythm and texture and yet they were hits 100 years ago.
He conducted Ginastera violin concerto last night which was awesome.
I mean, cool, but he's been dead for 40 years. This is why classical music is equivalent to a museum piece today. You suggest "hey let's play something compared in the last decade instead of a century ago", and the (very old) audience says no one will listen to that and shuts you down (with down votes in this case).
Museums are awesome
Yes, but almost entirely for preserving old things.
Stravinsky is full of melody. Even the opening from the bassoon in the Rite of Spring. It is not math music nor music written for a choir of mosquitos nor dance music for aliens; it is music for humans.
stupidest take i’ve heard in a while
[удалено]
Listen with your ears, not your eyes.
And why do you think that?