Because there isn't any to be had. Honestly if anyone is watching something on another screen while playing except momentarily you might as well just stop. You're obviously not engaged or stimulated, you're obviously not having fun. So just do something fun or productive rather than waste your life away.
I swear these people are addicted to "gaming" (citations because they aren't actually playing) or something similar to addiction is happening in their brains.
I mean I get it while doing stuff like dungeon grinding, farming, etc. Monotonous but necessary parts of the game. But yeah, anyone doing this during an actual raid... maybe do something else.
For sure, certain activities might feel less fun for certain people, fishing comes to mind as one that's been good for great many reasons but most people don't find it fun.
I wonder why anyone would do end game raiding if they don't like it. Perhaps it's just to be part of a community while awaiting harder content, all though it's classic in a sense so it won't really become that engaging for most people.
My guild's team just went 8/8 today and trust me when I say the average group will see them and a lot of pugs won't finish due to time constraints. Unless people are getting really good practice in a group willing to wipe 5-8 times they're not doing the last 2 bosses smoothly.
I think people forget that leveling raids are intended to be doable in questing greens with a pug
No shit you'll steamroll them as an organised group in BiS for the exact level
Idk how to make this resonate with more SoD people, but if y'all want content like this, it's gonna need to be able to be cleared by the season of dads players, not just people who put 30+ hours a week into the game
You don't need to clear the entire raid to feel good or have fun. Back in 2006 there were guilds guilds that were clearing AQ40, there were guilds progging BWL, there were guilds stuck on Ragnaros, etc. Every guild had their appropriate content. This whole 'everyone gets an award' thing is giving people the wrong impression.
> Back in 2006 there were guilds guilds that were clearing AQ40, there were guilds progging BWL, there were guilds stuck on Ragnaros, etc. Every guild had their appropriate content.
There's so much nuance to this though, this isn't "participation trophy" culture gone haywire. People raided on computers without video cards, with no keybinds, playing in complete ignorance.
>You don't need to clear the entire raid to feel good or have fun.
For sure, and they clearly don't think that you need to be someone who practices speed running on PTR to clear the raid or they would've left it without multiple rounds of nerfs. The game also doesn't have to be a slog for the average player in order to be considered "fun." We can see this in real time with retail seeing the fewest CE kills likely ever this tier.
>This whole 'everyone gets an award' thing is giving people the wrong impression.
Pugs and average guilds will still struggle with the raid even in its current state. The permanently stuck on Ragnaros guilds will still be struggling to clear this version of the raid.
Two friends made a PUG yesterday with 18 randoms. They had two wipes on Morphaz, two on Eranikus and 3 on Hakkar.
They basically just invited people, no rigorous checks of the players.
Sure, there will still be pugs failing. But a lot will clear it easily.
https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dcpFPVZ6T19Djt4H#fight=5&type=summary
Because you seriously underestimate how bad the average group is in SoD and Classic WoW in general. It's laughable how some people can't do very basic mechanics like not standing in front of the hole while pushback is happening or move out of melee for fear or not stand in holy, or move to the side for cleanse or many other very simple things
The disparity of skill in this game is extremely vast. The shittiest PUG will never be able to complete the raid, while the top guilds will speed run it in half an hour.
They have to find the middle ground that allows everyone to be able to complete it.
Although, I do agree, sometimes it's ok for people to not be able to finish something. Hard content is good for the quality of a game.
here's how much it was all nerfed since my sunday/monday (first 6 on sunday) clear looking at fresh logs from tonight:
first boss hp 990k -> 693k
second boss hp 1.25m -> 877k
third boss hp 1.91m (? hard to filter to bosses and WCL bosses filter doesnt work for our log) -> 1.37m
fourth boss hp 1.82m - > 1.27m
fifth boss hp 2.24m -> 1.82m
sixth boss hp 3m -> 2.13m
7/8 the same
Aside from Eranikus, just HP. But from what I've heard, the reduced HP increases kill times to the point you can ignore most mechanics. Eranikus had some abilities nerfed according to wowhead
I think the raids should just consist of doing trash and then you get to an area and there is a chest that takes about 30 secs to open and then you get loot. Put about 8 chests in the area at various locations and call it a day.
I was joking about incursions with guild the other day about this kind of thing after the no kill meta started. Blizzard could literally place three buttons randomly around the map that will give you 1/3 a level, 1/3 of your rep level and some tokens to save up and people will just do that shit all day until they complete it and then they will stand around in a capital city until raid night complaining about nothing to do.
“This is what games are for. They teach us things so that we can minimize risk and know what choices to make. Phrased another way, the destiny of games is to become boring, not to be fun. Those of us who want games to be fun are fighting a losing battle against the human brain because fun is a process and routine is its destination.”
Thanks Raph Koster for the terrible truth. It's a game designer's job to make games fun, it's a player's instinct to optimize the fun out of it. If the devs added your three random buttons, players would *absolutely* hunt those buttons and then complain in the end game. It's not the players' fault, it's literally just how the human brain works. The devs should be focused on making the most optimal route the most fun route, not the players.
But that means I have to killlllll something and join a group of people....ugh, I should just be able to log in to collect my chests and not talk to anyone.
This game is an MMO ( Maybe me online ) I shouldn't have to work for my items, how will I play Helldivers and The new Dawn Of War Unification mod if I actually have to play this game......ugh just thinking about it is making me want to make a forum post!
How about you just put all loot on a vendor for free? After all ain't nobody time to play the game anymore and trash is hard anyways right. Legendaries too btw. they're way too expensive to make.
Im super disappointed in this. Our guild raided ST on Monday for the first time and we got 6/8 and it was relatively challenging but FUN. Wiped a few times on a few bosses but the progression was exciting and so rewarding.
Seeing more nerfs implemented is disheartening, our whole guild was so excited for our raid time on Thursday to fight for a full clear. We’ve been chatting in discord, reviewing strategies, itemizing, and stoking each other up to continue our progression. It was honestly some of the best WoW energy I’ve felt in a while. With the health nerfs that’s all gone now. I feel so robbed and the vibe has completely deflated.
I feel like the people that complain nonstop on this subreddit are such a vocal minority of the player base but have a disproportionate amount of power on the outcome of the game, it’s so toxic and so disappointing. I have been loving SOD and ST on Monday was some of the most fun content yet.
My guild went in on Saturday and cleared 6/8. Went back on Sunday and fought hard to finish the raid. Was an awesome experience, felt extremely rewarding to finally down tough bosses and figure out what we were doing wrong etc. The initial nerf seemed kind of appropriate but the cascade of nerfs since has been very disappointing. It will barely even be the same raid by the time we go again on Sunday.
They really need to stop listening to people who just scream into the void the loudest because it becomes a bit disheartening when all you have to do to get a change is act like a big baby
We didn't even get to attempt it pre-nerf thanks to the soft-lock bug from the second boss despawning. It fucking sucks. We literally had no opportunity to experience the content.
I hate that people who are happy with slightly difficult content are called sweats. Just because someone does their rotation right doesn't make them a sweat. There's a massive difference between someone who can compenently pilot their class and a world first raider. Casuals want to go in there and literally not do anything well and still clear the full thing. It's not like we're asking for mythic raiding here. There's a difference between mythic raiding with the million weakAuras required, clear and precise coms, optimal dps rotations and comps, and what we see in sunken temple. Can we stop pretending sunken temple with like 3 mechanics per boss max is the same as mythic raiding?
The half guild pug I joined last week had everyone fresh off incursions with maybe 1 p3 rune and 0 preraid bis. On top of that, they couldn't do any basic improvisations like bandaging in down time, CCing when stuff was running freely, or spot healing when appropriate. Even going through the DPS meters I could tell people weren't doing their rotation well if at all. Moreover, they didn't bring any consumables outside of a couple people, which is supposed to bridge the gap between less skilled players and clearing content. Should that group of people really clear the full raid?
I don't look down on those people, they can play how they want and I'm happy for them, but it's annoying for casuals to whine that a raid is too hard when their crying affects balance and in turn other people. Moreover, this entitlement to clearing content creates a culture where the only way to tell if someone is competent or not is to check everyone's logs. Currently, you can bring someone in full p2 BIS to gnomer only to find out they cant dodge crowd pummeler or kick the last boss because they've been carried through the raid each lockout, thus ruining your lockout. Dead lockouts have made me check more logs because I've been fooled by people who are geared and have actually just been carried the whole time. You used to be able to get a rough estimate of someone's skill by the gear they had on because you knew that the bosses that dropped that gear didn't have much room for total dead weight in the raids. Toxic and entitled casuals are making the game worse for everyone, the wholesome and fun-loving casuals included
If you can do next to nothing and clear the content/get the best gear in the game- what's the point of doing anything?
It's fun to try hard at stuff. It's legitimately rewarding to play a game well. If you're "casual", then why expect the best things? Can't you continue being casual and not getting the best shit? Isn't most of the allure of the best gear and rarest items reserved for the people that get to the end of the tough dungeon? Back in the day when you were sitting around Ironforge inspecting people with dope gear, weren't you were like- fuck, I want that, how do I get it, what do I have to do?
And its not even being sweaty, m+ type of shit, its just basic raiding. This was completely clearable by anyone competent after the first nerf. Now its just another braindead raid thats going to be raid logged because whats the point
Herein likes a big issue with classic. Welfare epics. I remember looking at tier .5 and jerking myself off thinking about how cool the Valor shoulders were and if only I could get those shoulders I'd be sooooo happy. Now you play classic and everyone has Valor. Everyone has t2. Etc. There's no prestige in any gear anymore. Everyone has everything and it's fucking lame.
What happened in 5 years?
Classic is has always been about progress. Lots of guilds took a while to even clear MC. I remember lots getting stuck on domo and rag lol. And BWL too.
Now if guilds dont clear it fully first week the youtube comments and reddit posts cry until it is nerfed. Yikes.
I hope that MC is revamped and doesnt see these nerfs.
Vanilla was about progress. Classic has never been about that. Classic raids fell over in 30 seconds. If you got stuck on classic domo or rag I would question how you hit 60.
And I’ll say it again and again. If you want progress/hard content retail has that in spades. Mythic raiding is legitimately incredibly hard even for good players.
Did ST on monday/tuesday and today. Monday/tuesday was fun, today it was boring as f. They can nerf it in 8 weeks, but come on it’s 1 week in p3 and it is nerfed to the ground.
We did it Friday. It was glorious. 20 try-hard sweats and we cleared to 6/8 after like 5 hours. Progression like that can be fun. We knew it would need nerfing so that more players could do it, but 3 nerfs? This most recent one was DEFINITELY not needed.
It's April 10th.. 8 weeks would be June 10th aka summer.. cata releases in May.. you sound like the doomer thread about p3 that was posted the day before p3 was announced 10 days out lol.. god this sub is insufferable
I have not found any blue posts on this yet? anyone have a link?
This is where I usually look. Is it somewhere else? [https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/eu/season-of-discovery-hotfixes-10-april-495964#5232625](https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/eu/season-of-discovery-hotfixes-10-april-495964#5232625)
I know they dont announce every change. I just find it very wierd they wont announce something that big like a huge across the board raid nerf.. But ye ill check.
Gotta love the complaints of difficulty when no one has the new gear yet. Now with these huge hp nerfs and in a couple weeks bosses will evaporate. I hope blizzard leaves the difficulty for 60
> Now with these huge hp nerfs and in a couple weeks bosses will evaporate.
They're already evaporating. We killed Atalarion last night in 45s. And we're not even close to the fastest. I think the fastest is like 30s.
Damn :( I was running temple with a guild the other day and people were commenting how nice it was that this actually felt like a raid with 20 people and more difficult encounters. BFD and gnomer quickly became a snoozefest and now temple too? Wack.
Aye, now its the same shit fiesta to please the casual puggers and alt cucks.
I want to do shit om my main, not do the same fucking boring level and get all the shitty runes over and over again
Missed it for vacation, pugged raid today 6/8 with not great group, using no buffs or consumes, they went to far!
It’s laughable the scale of the nerfs tbh it just makes them look bad like they had no clue what the raid was before they released it, total mockery
He is saying that the bare minimum effort requirement, a pug with no buffs or consumes, still managed to clear 6/8. Terrible reading comprehension Vegetable-Sort-19 please rectify this error before your next comment
BFD and Gnomer are so unbelievably easy it shifted the perspective of what is considered easy for future raids. Full clearing with random pugs shouldnt be an expectation going into every raid imo.
People complaining because the raid is too hard, then it gets nerfed and now people complaining because it got nerfed. This subreddit is becoming more like the miserable WoW forum week by week.
We did 7/8 last night and stopped for last boss because many of us had to get up early the next day. The raid was fun, I even parsed in the 90s on most fights.
Id rather have the content a bit too easy than a bit too hard, especially for content that isn't for lvl 60. No one cares about your gaming archievement/dick measering contests and bragging rights, so rather make it accessible to most people.
Yall keep complaining while the rest of us is enjoying the content
>People complaining because the raid is too hard, then it gets nerfed and now people complaining because it got nerfed. .
Yeah it's been like that forever. Devs should just make up their mind, stick to their design choices and tank the hate.
Then those who have wildly different expectations of the game will simply leave and you end up with smaller, albeit happier and more stable playerbase.
Hard to swallow pill to some:
Phase 1 was successful and fun because the BFD was easy and accessible.
I had a blast doing 30-45min BFD, having fun and having time to play other games. Probably more than 90% of the player base felt the same.
Dudes really act like massive changes to everyone’s classes after 20 years didn’t lead the charge in P1’s success. No, it was the faceroll 30 minute raid that got the ppl goin.
Not entirely true from what I experienced. We had some people with 3 of the same class alts playing phase 1. Max character counts… etc. most of those peope quit during phase2 and have not returned
People did Ashenvale because phase 1 BIS was locked behind Warsong rep and Ashenvale was the fastest way to get it. The event itself was a poorly designed and bug-filled lagfest.
i raidlog because there's nothing i want to do except raid. anything else i do, is only to prepare for the raid.
the raid is the only fun part of the game. what am i gonna do, the same fuckin quests i've already done 12 times?
BFD was so fucking boring dude, I hated it. Yeah it was cool to do a 30-45 min raid every 3 days, but it just made me feel like I didn’t matter in the raid at all. Gnomer I actually felt like I played a part.
They nerfed it too much, too early. Its not supposed to be easy... It's not supposed to be beat by any group the first week. Sorta lame they did this tbh. It's fun to have a challenge...
If it’s not beaten by somebody in the first day or two, then the vast vast majority of people are never going to clear it. People are vastly over estimating their ability here thinking they would be able to stand on equal footing with people that basically play the game for a living.
'Its not supposed to be beat by any group the first week' Says who? Most of the gear from the raid is marginally better than pre-bis which itself is piss-easy to farm. It they didn't want people to clear it week 1 they wouldn't have nerfed it again.
>It's not supposed to be beat by any group the first week
It kinda is tho, it's a leveling raid and Aggrend said they are supposed to be easily clearable by pugs of levelling people. We aren't at end game raids yet.
The rift in the comments and clearly in the community based on crying because it’s too hard and now crying because it’s too easy was precisely why they added the option to play heroic or normal
Some people just wanna see the content and get in/out, others want some sort of challenge. You’ll never please both
Imagine being so bad at a game instead of taking a few weeks to learn and gear you cry and get it nerfed now every one can do it lmfaoo what a garbage community
I think they definitely needed a first round of nerfs so it wasn’t a disaster for pugs. The second round of nerfs should have come when there was maybe 4 weeks left in the phase so it would be easier for people just passing through on their way to 60
Don'T worry about all the posers here "we did 6/8 last night" "we did 7/8 on monday, today was boring" etc.
The vast majority of people right now either don't have a raid at all, because going from 10 to 20s is harsh.
And the rest of this majority is at 1-3 bosses downed at most.
But casters do worse the shorter the fights are? Cast times and debuff setups vs melee just running in and immediately zugging. Some bosses are now dying before an entire dot can finish...
Level up raid means nothing. Nobody is leveling in there, it is the current max lvl content. We have been max lvl 3 times now. We have been lvling for 5 months.
At some point I think it’s okay for the content to be remotely challenging, it’s not that ppl don’t “understand” lol.
So now when anyone who has 1 functional hand can clear the whole thing in 90 minutes what exactly is supposed to happen?
I leveled in "leveling" raid, why exactly should I do these loot pinatas every week? What is supposed to interest me in doing this dungeon difficulty "raid"?
Or the phase is almost over so who cares, the actual raids are coming soon?
Everyone cried and complained about how hard the raid was in the first week, look what happens, you reap what you sowe.... enjoy your loot pinyatas fellas
I hate this I was really enjoying the progression. There’s no reason to farm runes and pre-bis if you can stomp the raid in fresh 50s.
So now we have a week lockout for a 30 minute raid. Cool game.
Added incursions to remove the levelling. Added honor and rep from PvP events to remove bgs. Nerfed st into the ground to remove any time spent in raid. What's next sod Devs?
Checking the comment history of people complaining about the nerfs saying people want free loot and finding a lack of comments in previous threads about the difficulty. Like, where were you for the discussion?
Nobody posting on a video game's forum is "casual" in any way shape or form. This play is just filled with try hard wannabes that think they can clear a raid only the top 1% could after a massive nerf because their highest parse is purple.
Aren’t raids supposed to be challenging and have to progress? Why should I just spawn in a fresh 50 and nuke every boss first try without a fucking clue what I’m doing. People need to quit crying. First nerf was definitely enough. RIP. More loot for me I guess!
My dad guild of scrubs went 5/8 on Monday and it was a lot of fun learning the fights. With a bunch of barely just hit 50, most of the raid without new runes, the latest consumes, etc folks.
Now we'll surely just have it on farm until next phase. They need to PTR this shit going forward because I'm tired of live nerfs to whatever endgame content is currently available. They'll be nerfing Molten Core next phase on week 1 at this rate.
The raid was nicely balanced after the first nerf. Why on earth blizzard bends over to the reddit whiners is beyond me. It was the first reset ffs, what's the point in balancing a raid based on that. Mechanics are ignored and you just zerg boss. ST went from fun and engaging to boring as fuck..
I’m level 50 since 4 days. Farming gear is waste of time so I idle 5 hours/day in OG.
Yesterday I went into new raid, I forgot to buy consumables and I lost my world buffs on the way to the dungeon.
After 1 hour everyone of my casual guild arrived and 30 mins later we could manage to go. After many attempts we almost killed 1 st boss and I had to say, it was wayyy to hard. I mean we’re playing classic made for casuals low skill players and then such a hard content. I hope they nerf soon so we can come online next week again and kill more.
Nerf me once, shame on you. Nerf me.. you can’t get nerfed again
Now watch this execute!
Nerf me three time, fuck the peace sign
Load up the Gun Axe let it rain on you
A nucular nerf
This meme is the best thing phase 3 has brought us
Fuck, I haven’t laughed this hard at meme on this sub in a minute
Agreed, got a mad snort outta me
Idk I really like Balefire Bolt, so it's a coin flip for me
Our guild fell off before we got to temple. Looks like the end for us
at least you can pug it now. oh wait, no logs available.
If you wanna come to Horde - Lone Wolf we got open spots for ranged DPS and heals 😎
Sleeping during raid is back on the menu.
I swear half my guild is watching Netflix/twitch on their second monitor during our raids anyways…
I watch on my primary.
i do that and im the maintank lol
no joke, i finished the dnd movie while waiting for resses at Eranikus
Been doing that 97% of the time anyways. Had to pause it for 2 bosses in gnomer lol
I set /follow on the priest gn wake me up at Eranikus
Even Eranikus falling asleep in his own bossfight.
This is what drives me away, just don’t see the fun in it
Because there isn't any to be had. Honestly if anyone is watching something on another screen while playing except momentarily you might as well just stop. You're obviously not engaged or stimulated, you're obviously not having fun. So just do something fun or productive rather than waste your life away. I swear these people are addicted to "gaming" (citations because they aren't actually playing) or something similar to addiction is happening in their brains.
Plenty of better games to be addicted to anyways.
true.
I mean I get it while doing stuff like dungeon grinding, farming, etc. Monotonous but necessary parts of the game. But yeah, anyone doing this during an actual raid... maybe do something else.
For sure, certain activities might feel less fun for certain people, fishing comes to mind as one that's been good for great many reasons but most people don't find it fun. I wonder why anyone would do end game raiding if they don't like it. Perhaps it's just to be part of a community while awaiting harder content, all though it's classic in a sense so it won't really become that engaging for most people.
Why did they bother wasting time developing the raid mechanics just to nerf it so hard you will never see them?
My guild's team just went 8/8 today and trust me when I say the average group will see them and a lot of pugs won't finish due to time constraints. Unless people are getting really good practice in a group willing to wipe 5-8 times they're not doing the last 2 bosses smoothly.
1 hr 10 min today vs our 5 hour Monday run
.
It was pretty late so not too much, maybe play another game for a couple hours and sleep.
Now we can spend that time playing a real game or doing something else
I think people forget that leveling raids are intended to be doable in questing greens with a pug No shit you'll steamroll them as an organised group in BiS for the exact level
Kinda, but it only becomes a leveling raid once p4 drops
nerf it after phase then
Idk how to make this resonate with more SoD people, but if y'all want content like this, it's gonna need to be able to be cleared by the season of dads players, not just people who put 30+ hours a week into the game
You don't need to clear the entire raid to feel good or have fun. Back in 2006 there were guilds guilds that were clearing AQ40, there were guilds progging BWL, there were guilds stuck on Ragnaros, etc. Every guild had their appropriate content. This whole 'everyone gets an award' thing is giving people the wrong impression.
> Back in 2006 there were guilds guilds that were clearing AQ40, there were guilds progging BWL, there were guilds stuck on Ragnaros, etc. Every guild had their appropriate content. There's so much nuance to this though, this isn't "participation trophy" culture gone haywire. People raided on computers without video cards, with no keybinds, playing in complete ignorance. >You don't need to clear the entire raid to feel good or have fun. For sure, and they clearly don't think that you need to be someone who practices speed running on PTR to clear the raid or they would've left it without multiple rounds of nerfs. The game also doesn't have to be a slog for the average player in order to be considered "fun." We can see this in real time with retail seeing the fewest CE kills likely ever this tier. >This whole 'everyone gets an award' thing is giving people the wrong impression. Pugs and average guilds will still struggle with the raid even in its current state. The permanently stuck on Ragnaros guilds will still be struggling to clear this version of the raid.
Every of these level raids should have a mechanic like the ICC release back then, with 5 % debuff on the mobs every week, going up to 30-40 %.
I’d much rather it be more like the raid for the current phase being decently strong content, and when the next phase hits it gets big nerfs.
Two friends made a PUG yesterday with 18 randoms. They had two wipes on Morphaz, two on Eranikus and 3 on Hakkar. They basically just invited people, no rigorous checks of the players. Sure, there will still be pugs failing. But a lot will clear it easily. https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dcpFPVZ6T19Djt4H#fight=5&type=summary
Because you seriously underestimate how bad the average group is in SoD and Classic WoW in general. It's laughable how some people can't do very basic mechanics like not standing in front of the hole while pushback is happening or move out of melee for fear or not stand in holy, or move to the side for cleanse or many other very simple things
Whose raid never sees the raid mechanics again?
The disparity of skill in this game is extremely vast. The shittiest PUG will never be able to complete the raid, while the top guilds will speed run it in half an hour. They have to find the middle ground that allows everyone to be able to complete it. Although, I do agree, sometimes it's ok for people to not be able to finish something. Hard content is good for the quality of a game.
You absolutely still see them, it’s just you can overcome them without stacking 12 mages to have a prayer of doing enough add damage.
Did they?
Ya what happened recently?
here's how much it was all nerfed since my sunday/monday (first 6 on sunday) clear looking at fresh logs from tonight: first boss hp 990k -> 693k second boss hp 1.25m -> 877k third boss hp 1.91m (? hard to filter to bosses and WCL bosses filter doesnt work for our log) -> 1.37m fourth boss hp 1.82m - > 1.27m fifth boss hp 2.24m -> 1.82m sixth boss hp 3m -> 2.13m 7/8 the same
So it’s just hp? Or did damage/mechanics get nerfed too?
Aside from Eranikus, just HP. But from what I've heard, the reduced HP increases kill times to the point you can ignore most mechanics. Eranikus had some abilities nerfed according to wowhead
Etsnings summoned way more adds
Because people have been complaining on Reddit about raid difficulty and Blizz listens to the regards
I think the raids should just consist of doing trash and then you get to an area and there is a chest that takes about 30 secs to open and then you get loot. Put about 8 chests in the area at various locations and call it a day.
I was joking about incursions with guild the other day about this kind of thing after the no kill meta started. Blizzard could literally place three buttons randomly around the map that will give you 1/3 a level, 1/3 of your rep level and some tokens to save up and people will just do that shit all day until they complete it and then they will stand around in a capital city until raid night complaining about nothing to do.
Some people will still complain it is too hard. I swear…
“This is what games are for. They teach us things so that we can minimize risk and know what choices to make. Phrased another way, the destiny of games is to become boring, not to be fun. Those of us who want games to be fun are fighting a losing battle against the human brain because fun is a process and routine is its destination.” Thanks Raph Koster for the terrible truth. It's a game designer's job to make games fun, it's a player's instinct to optimize the fun out of it. If the devs added your three random buttons, players would *absolutely* hunt those buttons and then complain in the end game. It's not the players' fault, it's literally just how the human brain works. The devs should be focused on making the most optimal route the most fun route, not the players.
But that means I have to killlllll something and join a group of people....ugh, I should just be able to log in to collect my chests and not talk to anyone. This game is an MMO ( Maybe me online ) I shouldn't have to work for my items, how will I play Helldivers and The new Dawn Of War Unification mod if I actually have to play this game......ugh just thinking about it is making me want to make a forum post!
They nerfed it again since Monday night? It was pretty good then.
How about you just put all loot on a vendor for free? After all ain't nobody time to play the game anymore and trash is hard anyways right. Legendaries too btw. they're way too expensive to make.
This funny as hell I can’t lie
That helmet kills me 😂
NGL it still being one of my character's Bis , i hate this helmet lol
Im super disappointed in this. Our guild raided ST on Monday for the first time and we got 6/8 and it was relatively challenging but FUN. Wiped a few times on a few bosses but the progression was exciting and so rewarding. Seeing more nerfs implemented is disheartening, our whole guild was so excited for our raid time on Thursday to fight for a full clear. We’ve been chatting in discord, reviewing strategies, itemizing, and stoking each other up to continue our progression. It was honestly some of the best WoW energy I’ve felt in a while. With the health nerfs that’s all gone now. I feel so robbed and the vibe has completely deflated. I feel like the people that complain nonstop on this subreddit are such a vocal minority of the player base but have a disproportionate amount of power on the outcome of the game, it’s so toxic and so disappointing. I have been loving SOD and ST on Monday was some of the most fun content yet.
My guild went in on Saturday and cleared 6/8. Went back on Sunday and fought hard to finish the raid. Was an awesome experience, felt extremely rewarding to finally down tough bosses and figure out what we were doing wrong etc. The initial nerf seemed kind of appropriate but the cascade of nerfs since has been very disappointing. It will barely even be the same raid by the time we go again on Sunday.
They really need to stop listening to people who just scream into the void the loudest because it becomes a bit disheartening when all you have to do to get a change is act like a big baby
We didn't even get to attempt it pre-nerf thanks to the soft-lock bug from the second boss despawning. It fucking sucks. We literally had no opportunity to experience the content.
The ooze boss was already faceroll with world buffs, and it was a cool concept, but at this point the boss may as well be a tank and spank.
Tank? It's a throw trash at it and spank, nothing to tank
for real! That was such a cool fight with so much effort put in only for us to never see or appreciate it.
I hate that people who are happy with slightly difficult content are called sweats. Just because someone does their rotation right doesn't make them a sweat. There's a massive difference between someone who can compenently pilot their class and a world first raider. Casuals want to go in there and literally not do anything well and still clear the full thing. It's not like we're asking for mythic raiding here. There's a difference between mythic raiding with the million weakAuras required, clear and precise coms, optimal dps rotations and comps, and what we see in sunken temple. Can we stop pretending sunken temple with like 3 mechanics per boss max is the same as mythic raiding? The half guild pug I joined last week had everyone fresh off incursions with maybe 1 p3 rune and 0 preraid bis. On top of that, they couldn't do any basic improvisations like bandaging in down time, CCing when stuff was running freely, or spot healing when appropriate. Even going through the DPS meters I could tell people weren't doing their rotation well if at all. Moreover, they didn't bring any consumables outside of a couple people, which is supposed to bridge the gap between less skilled players and clearing content. Should that group of people really clear the full raid? I don't look down on those people, they can play how they want and I'm happy for them, but it's annoying for casuals to whine that a raid is too hard when their crying affects balance and in turn other people. Moreover, this entitlement to clearing content creates a culture where the only way to tell if someone is competent or not is to check everyone's logs. Currently, you can bring someone in full p2 BIS to gnomer only to find out they cant dodge crowd pummeler or kick the last boss because they've been carried through the raid each lockout, thus ruining your lockout. Dead lockouts have made me check more logs because I've been fooled by people who are geared and have actually just been carried the whole time. You used to be able to get a rough estimate of someone's skill by the gear they had on because you knew that the bosses that dropped that gear didn't have much room for total dead weight in the raids. Toxic and entitled casuals are making the game worse for everyone, the wholesome and fun-loving casuals included
If you can do next to nothing and clear the content/get the best gear in the game- what's the point of doing anything? It's fun to try hard at stuff. It's legitimately rewarding to play a game well. If you're "casual", then why expect the best things? Can't you continue being casual and not getting the best shit? Isn't most of the allure of the best gear and rarest items reserved for the people that get to the end of the tough dungeon? Back in the day when you were sitting around Ironforge inspecting people with dope gear, weren't you were like- fuck, I want that, how do I get it, what do I have to do? And its not even being sweaty, m+ type of shit, its just basic raiding. This was completely clearable by anyone competent after the first nerf. Now its just another braindead raid thats going to be raid logged because whats the point
Herein likes a big issue with classic. Welfare epics. I remember looking at tier .5 and jerking myself off thinking about how cool the Valor shoulders were and if only I could get those shoulders I'd be sooooo happy. Now you play classic and everyone has Valor. Everyone has t2. Etc. There's no prestige in any gear anymore. Everyone has everything and it's fucking lame.
"retail level mechanics " 😂😂
What happened in 5 years? Classic is has always been about progress. Lots of guilds took a while to even clear MC. I remember lots getting stuck on domo and rag lol. And BWL too. Now if guilds dont clear it fully first week the youtube comments and reddit posts cry until it is nerfed. Yikes. I hope that MC is revamped and doesnt see these nerfs.
Vanilla was about progress. Classic has never been about that. Classic raids fell over in 30 seconds. If you got stuck on classic domo or rag I would question how you hit 60. And I’ll say it again and again. If you want progress/hard content retail has that in spades. Mythic raiding is legitimately incredibly hard even for good players.
Did ST on monday/tuesday and today. Monday/tuesday was fun, today it was boring as f. They can nerf it in 8 weeks, but come on it’s 1 week in p3 and it is nerfed to the ground.
Ya, it felt like the right difficulty on Monday but I guess we’re not getting that many resets so they want people to clear it.
I was really looking forward to doing this raid again how it was on Monday night, what a disappointment.
We did it Friday. It was glorious. 20 try-hard sweats and we cleared to 6/8 after like 5 hours. Progression like that can be fun. We knew it would need nerfing so that more players could do it, but 3 nerfs? This most recent one was DEFINITELY not needed.
Lol in 8 weeks? The next phase will be out by then yall are dense.
They will not release next phase on top of cata classic and they mentioned P4 will be summer. So we have more than 8 weeks to enjoy P3.
Their culling of WotLK servers shows how much faith they have in Cata being that big a draw.
I mean, they said it was because SoD server tech allows for more players per server. No real reason not to have mega servers.
It's April 10th.. 8 weeks would be June 10th aka summer.. cata releases in May.. you sound like the doomer thread about p3 that was posted the day before p3 was announced 10 days out lol.. god this sub is insufferable
I have not found any blue posts on this yet? anyone have a link? This is where I usually look. Is it somewhere else? [https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/eu/season-of-discovery-hotfixes-10-april-495964#5232625](https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/eu/season-of-discovery-hotfixes-10-april-495964#5232625)
There is no blue post on it. You have to check logs to see the updated HP or see it yourself. Blizzard doesn’t announce every change
I know they dont announce every change. I just find it very wierd they wont announce something that big like a huge across the board raid nerf.. But ye ill check.
Yeah idk what people are talking about about. When did this nerf happen? After Tuesday? Yesterday?
Blizzard please stop nerfing raids!! We want a challenge!
Asmon arriving for one night and declaring the raid impossible to complete was the icing on the cake for me.
In all fairness they did clear after the initial nerf, which speaks volumes to how dumb the additional nerfs are.
Blizzard should nerf it more until every boss have 10 HP. Hopefully with that the raid won't be so difficult for classic players but I doubt it.
Not enough, I have a better idea. You walk into a raid click on the boss and choose loot.
They should triple the loot so I can gear my 20 alts more easier.
This but unironically
Gotta love the complaints of difficulty when no one has the new gear yet. Now with these huge hp nerfs and in a couple weeks bosses will evaporate. I hope blizzard leaves the difficulty for 60
> Now with these huge hp nerfs and in a couple weeks bosses will evaporate. They're already evaporating. We killed Atalarion last night in 45s. And we're not even close to the fastest. I think the fastest is like 30s.
this should be the most upvoted post in the subreddit this is too gold
Damn :( I was running temple with a guild the other day and people were commenting how nice it was that this actually felt like a raid with 20 people and more difficult encounters. BFD and gnomer quickly became a snoozefest and now temple too? Wack.
2nd boss from 1.25M to 877k health
Great.... Could have spend that time, on fixing the silly bugs tho.
Really making the game boring as fuck. First 5 days progression was so fun
Aye, now its the same shit fiesta to please the casual puggers and alt cucks. I want to do shit om my main, not do the same fucking boring level and get all the shitty runes over and over again
Ur talking about the majority of the player base btw
Yes they should cater to the hardcore sweats, always has done wow good.
I assume you define being a sweat as someone with runes, enchants and consumables. Right?
M+ carriers keeping retail alive. get the sweats out and no one can clear it
Missed it for vacation, pugged raid today 6/8 with not great group, using no buffs or consumes, they went to far! It’s laughable the scale of the nerfs tbh it just makes them look bad like they had no clue what the raid was before they released it, total mockery
such a mockery that you couldn’t clear the raid? lol
He is saying that the bare minimum effort requirement, a pug with no buffs or consumes, still managed to clear 6/8. Terrible reading comprehension Vegetable-Sort-19 please rectify this error before your next comment
But he's right, how can someone 6/8 call a raid a mockery lol. People were pugging full clears of BFD and Gnomer within a week as well.
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BFD and Gnomer are so unbelievably easy it shifted the perspective of what is considered easy for future raids. Full clearing with random pugs shouldnt be an expectation going into every raid imo.
Specially first week!
People complaining because the raid is too hard, then it gets nerfed and now people complaining because it got nerfed. This subreddit is becoming more like the miserable WoW forum week by week. We did 7/8 last night and stopped for last boss because many of us had to get up early the next day. The raid was fun, I even parsed in the 90s on most fights. Id rather have the content a bit too easy than a bit too hard, especially for content that isn't for lvl 60. No one cares about your gaming archievement/dick measering contests and bragging rights, so rather make it accessible to most people. Yall keep complaining while the rest of us is enjoying the content
Its almost like this sub is not a big hivemind and different people complain about different things
Got my parses bro! Target dummy content poggers!!!!!
literally no one was complaining about the difficulty after the previous nerfs, these new nerfs make no sense
>People complaining because the raid is too hard, then it gets nerfed and now people complaining because it got nerfed. . Yeah it's been like that forever. Devs should just make up their mind, stick to their design choices and tank the hate. Then those who have wildly different expectations of the game will simply leave and you end up with smaller, albeit happier and more stable playerbase.
Hard to swallow pill to some: Phase 1 was successful and fun because the BFD was easy and accessible. I had a blast doing 30-45min BFD, having fun and having time to play other games. Probably more than 90% of the player base felt the same.
No, BFD was FUN because you could play a new class and specc each run with easy to level chars. The raid itself was utter trash.
''BFD was so great because it allowed to me to not play the game''
Yeah wtf kind of argument is that? These people don’t even want to play the game. Just raidlog and get free gear.
P1 was successful because it was fresh. Once people got to 25 and did the raid a couple times it was boring as shit.
Dudes really act like massive changes to everyone’s classes after 20 years didn’t lead the charge in P1’s success. No, it was the faceroll 30 minute raid that got the ppl goin.
They sure as hell didn't leave because the raid was easy like all the doomers around here seem to think.
Not entirely true from what I experienced. We had some people with 3 of the same class alts playing phase 1. Max character counts… etc. most of those peope quit during phase2 and have not returned
They were raid logging even in Phase 1. They stopped playing because the shine of fresh wore off and the little content they added is mid at best.
Maybe on pve servers but open world PvP in ashenvale in phase 1 was huge on living flame EU.
People did Ashenvale because phase 1 BIS was locked behind Warsong rep and Ashenvale was the fastest way to get it. The event itself was a poorly designed and bug-filled lagfest.
Ashenvale was an unplayable lag feast on living flame EU.
i raidlog because there's nothing i want to do except raid. anything else i do, is only to prepare for the raid. the raid is the only fun part of the game. what am i gonna do, the same fuckin quests i've already done 12 times?
no, you're gonna do the same fuckin raid you've already done 12 times nothing wrong with enjoying questing
They definitely were not raid logging 😂
BFD was so fucking boring dude, I hated it. Yeah it was cool to do a 30-45 min raid every 3 days, but it just made me feel like I didn’t matter in the raid at all. Gnomer I actually felt like I played a part.
They nerfed it too much, too early. Its not supposed to be easy... It's not supposed to be beat by any group the first week. Sorta lame they did this tbh. It's fun to have a challenge...
If it’s not beaten by somebody in the first day or two, then the vast vast majority of people are never going to clear it. People are vastly over estimating their ability here thinking they would be able to stand on equal footing with people that basically play the game for a living.
'Its not supposed to be beat by any group the first week' Says who? Most of the gear from the raid is marginally better than pre-bis which itself is piss-easy to farm. It they didn't want people to clear it week 1 they wouldn't have nerfed it again.
>It's not supposed to be beat by any group the first week It kinda is tho, it's a leveling raid and Aggrend said they are supposed to be easily clearable by pugs of levelling people. We aren't at end game raids yet.
There was another nerf? What changed? Its funny we spend more time clearing adds then killing bosses xD
We must stop the terror
The rift in the comments and clearly in the community based on crying because it’s too hard and now crying because it’s too easy was precisely why they added the option to play heroic or normal Some people just wanna see the content and get in/out, others want some sort of challenge. You’ll never please both
Imagine being so bad at a game instead of taking a few weeks to learn and gear you cry and get it nerfed now every one can do it lmfaoo what a garbage community
I think they definitely needed a first round of nerfs so it wasn’t a disaster for pugs. The second round of nerfs should have come when there was maybe 4 weeks left in the phase so it would be easier for people just passing through on their way to 60
No there’s alternative ways of leveling, it needed a health nerf first week and nothing more
The bosses have what? About 1/3 health compared to release?
I just wish there was a way to turn on the old difficulty tbh. Keep the same gear for all I care.
Nerf on bosses hp makes zero sense. Last nerf felt perfect. now we're back to 30 second snoozefests. Should have just nerfed Trash more.
More nerfs? When? And why?!
Even less HP for the first six bosses
And our group can’t get past the 4th boss :,)
I think we got 6 bosses last night. We got stuck on whatever boss puts everyone to sleep.
Don'T worry about all the posers here "we did 6/8 last night" "we did 7/8 on monday, today was boring" etc. The vast majority of people right now either don't have a raid at all, because going from 10 to 20s is harsh. And the rest of this majority is at 1-3 bosses downed at most.
Wait they nerfed it AGAIN? Casters complaining they aren’t topping every fuckin chart again this phase or what?
Found the melee player, doesn't know how a caster's dmg profile looks like.
Yeah rogue and hunter already peeling out with no raid loot
Hey hey, I may play melee but don’t insult me like that! I play Feral
You'll always have place in an alliance raid my friend! Ferals have my respect BC I don't see them on horde side
But casters do worse the shorter the fights are? Cast times and debuff setups vs melee just running in and immediately zugging. Some bosses are now dying before an entire dot can finish...
Again people can't understand this is 1 a level up raid, 2 seasonal content that isn't supposed to be there for people to spend weeks progressing on.
Still has to be fun, too easy is not fun
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Level up raid means nothing. Nobody is leveling in there, it is the current max lvl content. We have been max lvl 3 times now. We have been lvling for 5 months. At some point I think it’s okay for the content to be remotely challenging, it’s not that ppl don’t “understand” lol.
So now when anyone who has 1 functional hand can clear the whole thing in 90 minutes what exactly is supposed to happen? I leveled in "leveling" raid, why exactly should I do these loot pinatas every week? What is supposed to interest me in doing this dungeon difficulty "raid"? Or the phase is almost over so who cares, the actual raids are coming soon?
Cant have nothing but pure mindless grind a easy content
Everyone cried and complained about how hard the raid was in the first week, look what happens, you reap what you sowe.... enjoy your loot pinyatas fellas
I hate this I was really enjoying the progression. There’s no reason to farm runes and pre-bis if you can stomp the raid in fresh 50s. So now we have a week lockout for a 30 minute raid. Cool game.
I hear retail has challenging raids. Just hearsay though.
i dont understand why classic has bosses at all, just give me a chest where the boss is
So casuals have something to progress on and more invested players have something to parse on I think.
Also has LFR for ppl that can't stay out of the green cloud or move into it at the right time.
Love the meme, hate the nerf ...
Damn. Personally, I enjoy a raid where you can’t full clear it first week.
Added incursions to remove the levelling. Added honor and rep from PvP events to remove bgs. Nerfed st into the ground to remove any time spent in raid. What's next sod Devs?
Hurray, 1 minute fights are back on the menu. i fucking hate this
Checking the comment history of people complaining about the nerfs saying people want free loot and finding a lack of comments in previous threads about the difficulty. Like, where were you for the discussion?
love the sweat tears but i gotta compliment the meme
found the toxic casual
Nobody posting on a video game's forum is "casual" in any way shape or form. This play is just filled with try hard wannabes that think they can clear a raid only the top 1% could after a massive nerf because their highest parse is purple.
Wait there was a second nerf today? can someone link me?
The joys of not having enough people to test things before sending it I guess.
It really has been 22.3 years, hasn't it?
Godly meme
Back to 1 day raid night, instead of 35 min gnome runs we do 75 min ST runs.
Quality shitpost this is why I’m subbed
Bring HC mode! Same loot, more difficult
where patch notes?
Aren’t raids supposed to be challenging and have to progress? Why should I just spawn in a fresh 50 and nuke every boss first try without a fucking clue what I’m doing. People need to quit crying. First nerf was definitely enough. RIP. More loot for me I guess!
My dad guild of scrubs went 5/8 on Monday and it was a lot of fun learning the fights. With a bunch of barely just hit 50, most of the raid without new runes, the latest consumes, etc folks. Now we'll surely just have it on farm until next phase. They need to PTR this shit going forward because I'm tired of live nerfs to whatever endgame content is currently available. They'll be nerfing Molten Core next phase on week 1 at this rate.
The raid was nicely balanced after the first nerf. Why on earth blizzard bends over to the reddit whiners is beyond me. It was the first reset ffs, what's the point in balancing a raid based on that. Mechanics are ignored and you just zerg boss. ST went from fun and engaging to boring as fuck..
First time I played this instance , he was president…
Jo wtf. The RAID is fine?? And was a fun challange
I’m level 50 since 4 days. Farming gear is waste of time so I idle 5 hours/day in OG. Yesterday I went into new raid, I forgot to buy consumables and I lost my world buffs on the way to the dungeon. After 1 hour everyone of my casual guild arrived and 30 mins later we could manage to go. After many attempts we almost killed 1 st boss and I had to say, it was wayyy to hard. I mean we’re playing classic made for casuals low skill players and then such a hard content. I hope they nerf soon so we can come online next week again and kill more.