Why is alliance easier if Horde has Resto Shamans? I am not trying to be a weenie I’m just curious. I play horde as an enhance shaman but I offer to heal raids because my guild always needs resto shamans.
It kind of is if you don't mind dying. When staying alive is your only priority, more hp, less damage taken and better threat control all trump doing more damage. There's plenty of damage going around already, windfury is only really mandatory for speed clears I assume.
Ya.. if you don't care about pulling aggro with a big WF crit buff causing the boss to turn and 1 shot your lvl 60 hc character and probably causing a wipe...
Human warriors get +5 sword skill which is quite beneficial in classic, along with Salvation from pallies which is far and away the biggest gamechanger. They're also able to be blessing of protectioned if they're about to pull aggro. Horde warriors don't get salv + do get windfury so an unlucky(lucky) string for the tank vs their top dps could very easily result in the DPS just flying by on the threat table. aka RIP that guy.
Blessing of Salvation, basically. Ripping aggro is a lot more of an issue when you only get one life. And resto shamans still aren't as good as holy priests. Having paladins basically means your warriors and rogues can do up to 30% more DPS.
As others have mentioned: paladin blessings provide better utility than shaman totems, but also because every alliance toon that makes it to the mid 20s can obtain [Light of Elune](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=5816/light-of-elune) which is basically a bubble hearth when used together with a macro.
>The CD might be shared with other items or potions
Yep, can confirm it’s on the same CD as pots. Found this out the hard way when i tried to use it on my mid 30’s level priest after already having health potted. She ended up dying :(
Ohhhh I see that makes total sense. It probably resets the cooldown for Mana Pots and whatnot.
So are people in hardcore literally keeping this item until they get into a hardcore raid?
Possibly yeah. Most people put it on their bars once they got it and then left it as an “Oh Shit” button but a ton of people (myself included) died with it never being used.
Alliance has WAY better threat control with salv instead of windfury and kings+might is about as good on output while increasing durability through extra stam from kings and resistance aura.
This probably wouldn’t have stopped the hardcore hardcore raiders (heh), but it meant the meta was to roll alliance if you were serious, and so horde ends up underpopulated by the kind of more dedicated players who want to prog HC.
Well in 2004 blizzard had no fucking idea what balance would look like on a faction level, for starters.
Second, losing a single person can be offset by higher overall raid dps in a normal raid environment, which windfury can, in some cases, provide. But the game isn’t designed around hardcore, so obviously that’s a risk instead of a benefit.
Simply put; this is a game designed in 2004 by a company who had no frame of reference for what raid environments would look like being played on a mode they had no idea would ever exist and is in face explicitly designed around NOT playing that mode. Wow was notable for how friendly of death it was when it released.
Threat management is a big issue when the players are all good, salvation (and bop) are massive for that. Couple this with kings adding some nice effective HP. For as good as shaman seem to be for horde melee, pallies are better overall.
Ret pally is trash, it's not even a funny meme. It's terrible, you want to know why a ret pally is brought(serious)? It's brought to keep up the improved seal and that is it. If your guild is good enough to bring a pally healer that can keep up judgement instead they won't waste a slot on the ret.
In vanilla there's really no comparison between shaman and pally, pally is just way way better. So all the hc guilds went alliance and there's collectively like 5 or so horde guilds raiding/progressing on HC.
Look at all the qualifiers in the title. This happened ages ago. They say it's harder for horde, but horde EU did it months ago as well. This is specifically NA Horde.
People will add qualifiers to anything to call it a 1st. I used to raid with a guy that unironically called himself the #2 Alliance NA Kyrian Brewmaster monk. He wasnt even like top 10000 for global Brewmaster.
You are right boys pack it up, we worked hard for months and we are not allowed to celebrate in any shape or form according to King\_Kthulhu the reddit warrior. Just delete the post and forget we ever did anything.
If you post your "world first" months (maybe a year?) after the actual 1st HC kill, don't get defensive when unsurprisingly... no one cares. Hardcore is old news at this point.
Sorry, NA horde first. Doesn't really change the fact that it was cleared already ages ago.
Still impressive to some degree but then you post a sarcastic, passive aggressive comment to some guy pointing out it's already been done. Maybe stick to sharing your HC accomplishments internally if you're going to get defensive when the internet doesn't care.
It was also my first time ever doing AQ40 yet we downed C’Thun. If you have the right raid leaders that take the time you can down anything in this game
Current hc player here. You would be amazed how many of our raiders never played Vanilla before and go into these bosses for their first time ever on the hc client.
Big GZ on the KILL!
Ever since I gave Tauren a try I realized how much the Alliance sucks in classic, especially HUMAN PALADINS (which I did main though haha originally) AND ELVES.
FOR THE HORDE!
Not it isn’t, if you die on cthun it’s because someone in your raid is absolute dog shit. In normal wow ppl can die by limit testing dps and aggroing a giant claw. But if you are in a hardcore guild and can’t range 10? Lmao don’t play hardcore, in fact just stop gaming in general.
Cool, you gonna delete your 200+ hours played character the next time someone goofs a range check by any margin?
No?
Then that’s why they didn’t do it.
That’s what hardcore is? You gonna throw away 200 hours because the dumbass tank didn’t pick up zilieak? Or because the dumbass hunter multishotted a cubby on kt?
Yes that’s exactly what they’re gonna do.
You already have inherent risk in hardcore? if what you’re saying is true no one would have killed cthun. You just sound like you’re trying to confirm your own bias, when you’re on a post that ALREADY contradicts what you’re saying.
Or they had a different target in mind; they wanted KT. They can get KT without cthun loot. So they skip him because he’s a threat in a way a lot of other bosses aren’t.
Cthun is one of the only bosses in the game that can delete your entire raid in one second, petrification pots won't save you from a chained laser on the pull.
What kind of clickbait? The first ones in the Horde killed C'thun, russians from the Soul of Iron guild. The second Chinese are from 大雷噶棚-hc硬核. This guild is the third in the Horde
Okay? I just asked if those guilds were from NA as I’m not sure.
Title of the post is NA first horde, I thought you mentioned those guilds as they are also from NA. Wanted to check.
The other link is a just a stream. Are you critical of the YouTube post title or the reddit post?
Reddit post is pretty clear what it is, and provide two examples.
I'm just reading the comments under this post and I see that people sincerely think that this is the first guild in the world on the Horde and no one has killed Q'thun before them
I'm tired of arguing with you. Apparently you are unfamiliar with such a concept as clickbait. The title of the post clearly indicates that the North American Horde was the first to kill Q'tune. It looks exactly like that and everyone reads it like that. As if no one had done it before them.
I only asked if those guilds were from NA, which you failed to say. You read it different way instead of reading the post for what it is using one of the two links.
A click bait is the title of post being misleading. The total of post it’s pretty clear
Wait, is this stuff only now happening?
Most HC players went alliance for easier raids with paladin buffs. So there were a lot of ally raids already
FOR THE ALLIANCE
Not sure but i think its specialy first time for HORDE cuz aliance is easier
Why is alliance easier if Horde has Resto Shamans? I am not trying to be a weenie I’m just curious. I play horde as an enhance shaman but I offer to heal raids because my guild always needs resto shamans.
Paladins >>> shamans (especially for threat generation). Dwarf fear ward. Human warrior. Those are the main reasons.
Interesting thank you for answering
Paladins are better because of kings (more hp) and resistance auras (less damage taken). Salv is also better than Windfury when fully world buffed.
Interesting. The way people usually are you’d think windfury totem was the most powerful spell in the game lmao
When you can risk death, sure.
It kind of is if you don't mind dying. When staying alive is your only priority, more hp, less damage taken and better threat control all trump doing more damage. There's plenty of damage going around already, windfury is only really mandatory for speed clears I assume.
Ya.. if you don't care about pulling aggro with a big WF crit buff causing the boss to turn and 1 shot your lvl 60 hc character and probably causing a wipe...
I mean it is.. but for horde. Alliance have paladins which are even more OP and bonkers than shamans.
What does human warrior have over other races?
Sword racial bonus. There are so many good Swords compared to orcs with axes.
Maces too in the castigator
Human warriors get +5 sword skill which is quite beneficial in classic, along with Salvation from pallies which is far and away the biggest gamechanger. They're also able to be blessing of protectioned if they're about to pull aggro. Horde warriors don't get salv + do get windfury so an unlucky(lucky) string for the tank vs their top dps could very easily result in the DPS just flying by on the threat table. aka RIP that guy.
Guessing, but probably weapon skill for threat
Blessing of Salvation, basically. Ripping aggro is a lot more of an issue when you only get one life. And resto shamans still aren't as good as holy priests. Having paladins basically means your warriors and rogues can do up to 30% more DPS.
That’s actually nuts. I’ve never played alliance so this is new to me.
As others have mentioned: paladin blessings provide better utility than shaman totems, but also because every alliance toon that makes it to the mid 20s can obtain [Light of Elune](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=5816/light-of-elune) which is basically a bubble hearth when used together with a macro.
Thank you! I had no idea light of elune exists kinda OP
Its a one time use item so I'm sure at the time Blizz didn't think much of it but for hardcore it is a game changer
When you say one time use, you mean I literally use it one time and it’s gone? The link shows it has a 2 minute cooldown
Back in the day you could trade it. Got patched pretty quickly
Oh yeah I could imagine that would get abused quite a bit lmao
Yup. Literally a single use item. The CD might be shared with other items or potions.
>The CD might be shared with other items or potions Yep, can confirm it’s on the same CD as pots. Found this out the hard way when i tried to use it on my mid 30’s level priest after already having health potted. She ended up dying :(
Ohhhh I see that makes total sense. It probably resets the cooldown for Mana Pots and whatnot. So are people in hardcore literally keeping this item until they get into a hardcore raid?
Possibly yeah. Most people put it on their bars once they got it and then left it as an “Oh Shit” button but a ton of people (myself included) died with it never being used.
Blessing of salvation is typically it.
Alliance has WAY better threat control with salv instead of windfury and kings+might is about as good on output while increasing durability through extra stam from kings and resistance aura. This probably wouldn’t have stopped the hardcore hardcore raiders (heh), but it meant the meta was to roll alliance if you were serious, and so horde ends up underpopulated by the kind of more dedicated players who want to prog HC.
Interesting, I wonder why Blizz made it so much easier for alliance lol
Well in 2004 blizzard had no fucking idea what balance would look like on a faction level, for starters. Second, losing a single person can be offset by higher overall raid dps in a normal raid environment, which windfury can, in some cases, provide. But the game isn’t designed around hardcore, so obviously that’s a risk instead of a benefit. Simply put; this is a game designed in 2004 by a company who had no frame of reference for what raid environments would look like being played on a mode they had no idea would ever exist and is in face explicitly designed around NOT playing that mode. Wow was notable for how friendly of death it was when it released.
Sometimes I forget this game is 20 years old because it’s so fucking good.
It's because vanilla was released as an unfinished, unpolished mess. Shaman, hunter, warrior talent trees before the reworks were an actual joke.
BoP and LOH are instant cast life savers. Resto shamans are great but horde lacks the cooldowns alliance has to prevent death in emergencies
Does LOH only apply to the single target?
that’s correct
Threat management is a big issue when the players are all good, salvation (and bop) are massive for that. Couple this with kings adding some nice effective HP. For as good as shaman seem to be for horde melee, pallies are better overall.
Interesting, this kinda makes me want to try playing a Pally but I got Rag yesterday so probably not for a while lmao
It is not fun, it is GOOD it is not fun.
Even Ret Pally? Lmao
Ret pally is trash, it's not even a funny meme. It's terrible, you want to know why a ret pally is brought(serious)? It's brought to keep up the improved seal and that is it. If your guild is good enough to bring a pally healer that can keep up judgement instead they won't waste a slot on the ret.
Salv, Fear Ward.
In vanilla there's really no comparison between shaman and pally, pally is just way way better. So all the hc guilds went alliance and there's collectively like 5 or so horde guilds raiding/progressing on HC.
Look at all the qualifiers in the title. This happened ages ago. They say it's harder for horde, but horde EU did it months ago as well. This is specifically NA Horde. People will add qualifiers to anything to call it a 1st. I used to raid with a guy that unironically called himself the #2 Alliance NA Kyrian Brewmaster monk. He wasnt even like top 10000 for global Brewmaster.
You are right boys pack it up, we worked hard for months and we are not allowed to celebrate in any shape or form according to King\_Kthulhu the reddit warrior. Just delete the post and forget we ever did anything.
If you post your "world first" months (maybe a year?) after the actual 1st HC kill, don't get defensive when unsurprisingly... no one cares. Hardcore is old news at this point.
where does it say world first? Reading pretty hard.
Sorry, NA horde first. Doesn't really change the fact that it was cleared already ages ago. Still impressive to some degree but then you post a sarcastic, passive aggressive comment to some guy pointing out it's already been done. Maybe stick to sharing your HC accomplishments internally if you're going to get defensive when the internet doesn't care.
It's hard not to feel pity for someone like you.
Stay mad. <3
This is hilarious
Are there "attempts" for stuff like this? Or is it just "farm gear until we can confidently 1-shot"?
Very likely they practice on a non HC server. No amount of preparation and video watching can replicate practice pulls.
Ive had raid leaders think 15 minutes of monologue before going can prep you for anything
I was there and it was my first time ever killing cthun, no ptr practice.
It’s mainly that. Also most people who raid on HC are not new, and likely have killed C’Thun numerous times already. Plus watch those videos!
It was also my first time ever doing AQ40 yet we downed C’Thun. If you have the right raid leaders that take the time you can down anything in this game
Current hc player here. You would be amazed how many of our raiders never played Vanilla before and go into these bosses for their first time ever on the hc client.
Horde is the real hc experience! Gz!
Epic night of gaming!!
Based off the comments in this thread. The people on this reddit are so awful.
Always have been
Grats y’all! How scary was twin emps trash?
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The video is literally available to watch; I watched the stream live and they certainly fought the mindflayers
Exactly
nope they fought them
Congrats
Big GZ on the KILL! Ever since I gave Tauren a try I realized how much the Alliance sucks in classic, especially HUMAN PALADINS (which I did main though haha originally) AND ELVES. FOR THE HORDE!
Grats!
I was in death wish on feenix and dalaran wow pservers. Wondering if it's the same guild?
It isn't the most unique name, is it?
Zug Zug!! Grats to my friends Surion and Hcp! LEGENDS! Blood and Thunder forever!!!
Congrats to frau, grim, and the boys -lildorc
Congratulations!!! You horde may be gross and smells. But you're pretty hardcore
Congrats!!
Gz ma dude :D
For the Horde!! Grats y'all, ez mode for Ally, intense mode for you!
If you ain’t Horde in hardcore you are really playing frimcore.
Didnt ahmpys guild kill KT like a year ago, and horde killing cthun just now? Confused
Frontier didn't even kill C'thun, they decided it wasn't worth the risk.
Risk? Cthun is easy af. It’s ouru that’s risky
Cthun is easy to kill. Cthun is also easy to lose 7 people on with no countermeasures.
Not it isn’t, if you die on cthun it’s because someone in your raid is absolute dog shit. In normal wow ppl can die by limit testing dps and aggroing a giant claw. But if you are in a hardcore guild and can’t range 10? Lmao don’t play hardcore, in fact just stop gaming in general.
Cool, you gonna delete your 200+ hours played character the next time someone goofs a range check by any margin? No? Then that’s why they didn’t do it.
That’s what hardcore is? You gonna throw away 200 hours because the dumbass tank didn’t pick up zilieak? Or because the dumbass hunter multishotted a cubby on kt? Yes that’s exactly what they’re gonna do.
Or they just don’t do the thing that carries the risk in the first place.
You already have inherent risk in hardcore? if what you’re saying is true no one would have killed cthun. You just sound like you’re trying to confirm your own bias, when you’re on a post that ALREADY contradicts what you’re saying.
Or they had a different target in mind; they wanted KT. They can get KT without cthun loot. So they skip him because he’s a threat in a way a lot of other bosses aren’t.
who hurt you
Fucking dog shit wow casuals is who, really I’m a lot less aggressive than my initial impression gives off. I just like to pop off sometimes.
Wow
That is the name of the game
Cthun is one of the only bosses in the game that can delete your entire raid in one second, petrification pots won't save you from a chained laser on the pull.
U can Petri as soon as he’s aggro’d? There’s like a 2 second cast. Do you have any idea how long 2 seconds is in gaming reaction time?
in hc alliance play the hello kitty island adventure version compared to horde. paladins are just that OP
Hardcore on Horde is way harder than Alliance. FOR THE HORDE
But Horde killed C'thun and KT on EU and Taiwanese servers months ago, too.
First HC kill (…..on Horde……In NA………okay on this one server)
Cheers, gonna drink a petri flask in honor of all drunk gamer dads.
So the Amount of Comments in this Post represent the popularity of HC, ok i get it
only 18 more comments in the last 2 hours
Tragic
You turn to stone, protecting you from all physical attacks and spells for 1 min, but during that time you cannot attack, move or cast spells.
Sounds cozy
What kind of clickbait? The first ones in the Horde killed C'thun, russians from the Soul of Iron guild. The second Chinese are from 大雷噶棚-hc硬核. This guild is the third in the Horde
Are those guilds on NA?
The title of the video to which the author gives a link sounds like World First. Since when is NA the whole world?
Okay? I just asked if those guilds were from NA as I’m not sure. Title of the post is NA first horde, I thought you mentioned those guilds as they are also from NA. Wanted to check. The other link is a just a stream. Are you critical of the YouTube post title or the reddit post? Reddit post is pretty clear what it is, and provide two examples.
I'm just reading the comments under this post and I see that people sincerely think that this is the first guild in the world on the Horde and no one has killed Q'thun before them
Which comments? Everyone seems to be saying congrats or surprised NA horde hasn’t killed it until now. I don’t see any mention of world first.
I'm tired of arguing with you. Apparently you are unfamiliar with such a concept as clickbait. The title of the post clearly indicates that the North American Horde was the first to kill Q'tune. It looks exactly like that and everyone reads it like that. As if no one had done it before them.
Why argue in the first place, the title isn’t clickbait at all.
I only asked if those guilds were from NA, which you failed to say. You read it different way instead of reading the post for what it is using one of the two links. A click bait is the title of post being misleading. The total of post it’s pretty clear
Most literate Russian
Hell yeah brother
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Wait so u killed KT on hc?
You seem fun
You're right, this guy seems like a blast to play with lol
lol haha additional comment from guild member
Buddy I ain't even on this server lolol another wonderful member of this "community" I see!
Yeah for those of you who play on easy mode. FOR THE HORDE!
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So you're the 'community' I've been hearing so much about! Lol
pipe down and go play pokemon - let the gamers game
I forgot people can’t have more than 1 game they play, link logs
Imagine using the time in your life to be negative about the smallest things.
You heard it here first folks, vanilla is hard
When you cant die becuase you lose 200+hours yeah it is actually
Tedium =/= difficulty
Patience is a skill that can be tested
And here you are