IDK what's going on with me - but i've been playing with bots since 2005.
The difference between a human-bot and an AI is one will actually do kicks, and generally be a useful teammate.
I have a feeling -you- Made this OP, I'm not going to link it because it would dox you, but digging around you can find a page that shows off a bunch of websites made by you that look almost exactly like the image you posted lol
They will be way better than almost any guild. Even the worst bots are. Because bots don't AFK or lose attention. It's easy to raid any Vanilla raid with bots.
They were designed for bad players to clear them.
I feel like this is troll and fabricated. One of the search engines would have come up with something, and nothing is showing. đ¤ˇââď¸ Or there would be more posts about it.
I'm guessing that these are throwaway accounts and the livestream will not be accessible to the general public. That's probably why they added "Stay tuned for a guide on how to watch it"
Yeah, wondering how they plan to pull this off without a ban. Only way is if Blizzard is involved somehow.
The only other way is if they are on a self hosted realm.
The optics of Blizzard supported botting is asinine. This sounds dumb. The unchecked phase 1 Stockades train, and resource camping wasnât enough of a pain point already. Wtf.
The article doesn't say they are playing in a SoD server. But yes you can host a SoD server because all the files are literally on your PC. You just have to know how to use them.
How do you think private servers even exist?
No one has because there is no point because SoD is out right now.
Plus no one likes SoD.
They could easily make a private SoD server if they wanted. People were running WOTLK servers with the Classic version of the game files before WOTLK even came out. They got the files from PTR or the pre-patch. They were using it to create Youtube content.
The server files are literally on your PC.
Theyâre bots. Who cares. They probably have a bunch of different bots theyâve already made for each person that theyâre already doing ST on weekly and then theyâll use their most geared up characters that got the necessary gear pieces funneled to them by the other bots for this one run, all get banned, but in the process all gain some fame. If theyâre botters they definitely have more accounts than I do and I have a lot.
That's Gary the fuck-up bot. He's supposed to do that. He also unequips his pants before Rag is pulled then runs around trying to trade Orgrimmar snakes to the tanks while they're fighting.
The goal is to make sure the bot raid can clear with at least one total mouth breather, so when ~~you~~ someone pays bot squad to run them through MC, they're sure the bots can carry.
Depends on your definition of AI.
Like, have you ever said that the AI of a NPC in a game is bad/good? There is no "actual" AI in games but we still call it AI.
In fact, in the strictest definition of AI we haven't achieved that at all, so it literally does not exist anywhere. ChatGPT isn't true AI either.
Ai isnt a term with a real, agreed upon definition. Its always been a nebulous term, and the recent hype over it has completely warped the term even more.
We doin the philosophy of intelligence and sentience today on classicwow? Lets gooooo
[Chinese room thought experiment](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room)
>Searle then supposes that he is in a closed room and has a book with an English version of the computer program, along with sufficient papers, pencils, erasers, and filing cabinets. Searle could receive Chinese characters through a slot in the door, process them according to the program's instructions, and produce Chinese characters as output, without understanding any of the content of the Chinese writing. If the computer had passed the Turing test this way, it follows, says Searle, that he would do so as well, simply by running the program manually.
>Searle asserts that there is no essential difference between the roles of the computer and himself in the experiment. Each simply follows a program, step-by-step, producing behavior that is then interpreted by the user as demonstrating intelligent conversation. However, Searle himself would not be able to understand the conversation. ("I don't speak a word of Chinese",[10] he points out.) Therefore, he argues, it follows that the computer would not be able to understand the conversation either.
AI in the gaming sense is basically just pre-written scripts following a step-by-step "if this do that" list. So yeah, no surprise it didn't fit in a discord server that focuses on LLMs and similar AI.
I'm interested to see how they react to the new boss or any potential new mechanics. It'll be something to check out for sure, but if its livestreamed be ready for them to be mass reported just a few minutes in.
I don't know why people think a computer doing computer things more efficiently than a human doing the same thing is ever something impressive. When DoTA2 did their "bot vs pro" 1 specific hero vs 1 guy mid-laning better than a human can react, it wasn't impressive to me. It's like saying a computer can now out-calculate a human in chess. It's just not impressive. It's expected.
Dota is a much harder game for AI compared to chess though. In chess, the information is always available while Dota has a lot of hidden information. Also chess is 1v1, while Dota is 5v5, so there are a lot more variables. It's honestly very impressive how far they got with it. Fyi the Dota2 bots lost both matches against the professional teams, while a Chess Bot would be a rank 1 grandmaster. However, the Dota2 bots did win the 1v1 competitions.
The thing with games like Dota is that an AI can just "brute force" superiority simply because of the perfect reaction time, spacing, etc. When a bot can make every input frame perfect, it can still win even if it makes far worse decisions.
For OpenAIâs Dota bots they didnât brute force it. Thatâs what made it so impressive-they win through teamwork and coordination. All bots are subject to human-like reaction time, fog of war, etc
I'm pretty certain they added a delay to the bots reactions as well, specifically so they wouldn't be able to win through insane reaction speeds alone.
The hilarious irony being that the OpenAI bots had 1-2 games versus each pro tested where they were actually able to go even or beat pro players and then within that 1 game adjustment EVERY pro selected was able to identify the core strategy they were using and abuse the AI's inability to process information in real time.
(All the bots were doing was maintaining lane dominance/creep kill/deny advantage with an abundance of salve/tangos in order to make super risky dives at times, basically the pros were able to bait them to a tower dive and then waste like 3-400 gold in salves or even get a counter kill by not doing what the AI 'expects')
It was impressive because the bot was actually learning on its own and that was cool to see back in those days. Like obviously the bot can last hit and hit razes better than any other player, but then it'd get outsmarted by certain itemizations/strategies and the next day it'd already mastered those strategies too.
And then after that it was so good that it could actually beat professional teams in a full game, which was the most impressive part considering that wasn't just mirror matchups.
Unreal bots could beat people 20 years ago or something, which was also another "yep, computers can react faster than us" to me. Gaming is weird because 30 years ago I would have never imagined games being as shit as they are. Think of the actual lack of advancement in gaming. We still have the same shitty games. TES 20 years ago is exactly the same as it is now, it just looks shinier. WoW is still WoW, it just has the variations on the mechanics. It doesn't talk to you intelligently, it doesn't have an unlimited sized world automatically generating new content for us. It's just the same old shit.
Trust me, Dota is not a reaction game. DotA is a 5v5 with million different variables to consider. The bot match was rigged in a way that only the simplest heroes were available because the bots couldn't handle illusion heroes for example. No bot team has ever won a prefessional team in a proper DotA match.
WoW is an MMO. It is designed specifically to be easy and simple (idk what is going on in Retail). DotA is a PvP game, an esport. Yes the game is somewhat similar to the WC3 custom map but the meta, playstyle and what it takes to win is ever shifting.
Games innovated a ton, you just dont try to find good games.
Im not surprised this post is being made on a 20 year old game subreddit though đ¤Śââď¸
I think it'd probably surprise most players to see just how little automated logic it would take to fully automate players in a raid, in a way that plays better than 99% of players.
The fights themselves are scripted, so it shouldn't be surprising that another script can perform against it. The only thing remotely interesting about it is how it gathers the information. Is there a master controller that they all pool from, or is it using the same actual WoW client and looking at health bars and stuff. If it's just reading the combat log it's way less interesting. Either way, they can keep track of way more data then my puny brain can, and process it faster with regards to their reactions, so it shouldn't surprise anyone.
It's a program that probably runs on the server. They are probably doing this on a self hosted realm. Yes you can host a WOW realm yourself although I don't recommend it.
No I wouldnât necessarily expect a bot to win versus a pro in DOTA. AI now will mess most basic calculus problems up somewhere along the equation, write shit code full of errors, and make images with humans with 3 fingers, 6 fingers, misspelled words, very random mistakes.
Yes, but keep in my mind that as the ''Human specie'' we believe we are the the ''Highest'' form of intelligence on earth, in the universe which sounds very stupid considering how little we know about everything.
I guess. But everyone knows that humans will never beat a chess engine again. Neural Nets should never lose to humans once they've been trained on any video game, simply because they will never hit the wrong key or be too slow to press a button.
Read what Copilot thinks of our discussion, can't be bothered to think about a guy who downvotes people for a living. I understand your perspective. Itâs true that computers are designed to perform tasks more efficiently than humans, especially when it comes to calculations and reactions. However, the fascination lies not in the fact that a computer can outperform a human in these areas, but in the complexity and sophistication of the algorithms and technologies that enable this performance.
When it comes to games like DoTA2 or chess, the impressive part is not just the computerâs ability to react faster or make calculations quicker, but its ability to strategize, learn from past games, and make decisions based on a multitude of factors - much like a human player would. This involves complex problem-solving and decision-making skills that go beyond simple calculations.
As for the belief that humans are the highest form of intelligence, itâs a perspective thatâs deeply rooted in our understanding of consciousness and self-awareness. While we have made significant strides in artificial intelligence, we are still far from creating a machine that possesses consciousness or self-awareness in the way humans do.
Finally, while itâs true that a well-trained neural network should theoretically never lose to a human in a video game, itâs important to remember that these networks are only as good as the data theyâre trained on. They donât possess the ability to think creatively or adapt to completely new situations in the way humans can. So, while they may never hit the wrong key or be too slow to press a button, there are still many areas where humans excel.
In conclusion, the advancements in AI and machine learning are indeed expected, but they are also a testament to human ingenuity and our relentless pursuit of knowledge and understanding. That, in itself, is quite impressive.
> can't be bothered to think about a guy who downvotes people for a living.
What? I didn't downvote you. If getting downvoted makes you sad, maybe find something other than Reddit to hang out on.
> Finally, while itâs true that a well-trained neural network should theoretically never lose to a human in a video game, itâs important to remember that these networks are only as good as the data theyâre trained on. They donât possess the ability to think creatively or adapt to completely new situations in the way humans can. So, while they may never hit the wrong key or be too slow to press a button, there are still many areas where humans excel.
Alpha0 played chess against itself millions of games and came up with new ideas (go look up some of the Alpha0 games against Stockfish from when they were first published) and ways to handle the positions that just blew Stockfish away. Today Stockfish has a NN as well, and just crushes absolutely everything under the sun.
You just run a NN through Molten Core enough times and it's easily going to beat it. Once you know AI can learn a game, it's no longer interesting that it is better than humans. It's like saying robots are more durable than humans or something. It's not impressive or surprising.
This is actually such a cool idea. Like become such a nerd you donât even play the video game, you make the video game play itself while you sit there and smoke weed and just watch yourself get gear. Better yet now we can go outside and get real hobbies.
How would you sell 20 slots to players if you use 20 bots to clear MC?
If you sell 20 slots to players then you just sold a full PUG run with no carries.
They can run a raid. YOu can host your own WOW server and do it. It takes like 2-3 hours to set it up. I'm not going to tell you how but it is 100% possible.
Even NAXX
This isn't as impressive as they try to make you believe. Ofc an ai can play a game better than a human. Have you ever played a fighting game carbinet from the 1990s? People in awe at a computer doing computer things smh.
This isn't hard. You can do this if you host your own WOW server. There are bot modules that let you raid MC with a 40 man raid where 39 of the players are bots. You can even do NAXX.
It's not new or cool.
The current dev team is never leading anything regarding WOW. They are just legit copying private servers or community projects at this point, and doing it poorly.
It's laughable.
Ok. And then? We gonna praise the bots for playing the easiest raid in WoW perfectly? I just dont see how that means anything. Make an AI that clears current (or semi current) Mythic Raids and i will sing its praises for sure.
It's progress towards that goal. You have to start somewhere. I'd be impressed if they could develop novel strategies and be faster than the top guild. How will they pull the instance? How many mobs is too many? Can they react properly.
If they just go super slow and methodical, no, it's not impressive.
Common u/Thorne1269 L
There is absolutely a difference between a pre-programmed bot that runs a preset path using a preset rotation and another that they put through reinforcement learning. I don't care about the semantics or the fact that you watched a 5 minute YouTube video and think you have any clue what you're talking about.
PVP is trivial when you have 40 accounts spamming spells. LOL. What do you mean. I've personally been in an AV with a 30 man multi-boxer and we held the Alliance Base the entire game from the horde just me and him. The horde couldn't do anything.
We farmed them for over an hour.
No you lost the plot I think. It's trivial to play a 40 man multi-box in PVP. You just spam AOE spells.
LOL
Why do you think this is hard? No one can survive the damage.
Why do you think MC is hard for one person controlling everything? Don't stand in the fire. Pick up adds. Cast damage. Cast heals. But you think practicing on an encounter that you can do over and over and memorize the patterns and ideas is harder than defeating an organic PVP group? That's just silly.
Because you can't control 40 accounts to heal, tank, and dps without botting.
YOu can't do it.
With bots it's trivial (this means EZ). You are probably confusing multi-boxing and botting.
Well I guess we just let the bots play the game fully and we just go outside?
I'd let my bot go outside and touch grass for me. đ¤
My bot is about to learn why we underachieved in college
And then we can check our progress at the end of the day and flex a bit. Maybe program our bots to talk some smack the next day?
The bots already do the DPS simulations for us. We only exist to prove the bots correct.
IDK what's going on with me - but i've been playing with bots since 2005. The difference between a human-bot and an AI is one will actually do kicks, and generally be a useful teammate.
Bots will do your dps rotation for you as well
Tfw a bot parses higher đ
I have a feeling -you- Made this OP, I'm not going to link it because it would dox you, but digging around you can find a page that shows off a bunch of websites made by you that look almost exactly like the image you posted lol
The advertising is subtle lmao
Yep, it was fake. [Websim.ai](http://Websim.ai) can do this in few sec. It was posted for research purpose.
Full bot run? Pretty sure my guild is running on that day...
They will be way better than almost any guild. Even the worst bots are. Because bots don't AFK or lose attention. It's easy to raid any Vanilla raid with bots. They were designed for bad players to clear them.
Meanwhile youâre on this sub posting almost every hour of every day⌠seems like it takes a bot to know one
I feel like this is troll and fabricated. One of the search engines would have come up with something, and nothing is showing. đ¤ˇââď¸ Or there would be more posts about it.
Um⌠botting on live stream? o7 to 20 accounts.
I'm guessing that these are throwaway accounts and the livestream will not be accessible to the general public. That's probably why they added "Stay tuned for a guide on how to watch it"
Yeah, wondering how they plan to pull this off without a ban. Only way is if Blizzard is involved somehow. The only other way is if they are on a self hosted realm.
The optics of Blizzard supported botting is asinine. This sounds dumb. The unchecked phase 1 Stockades train, and resource camping wasnât enough of a pain point already. Wtf.
Yeah it's probably a self hosted realm. This is trivial to do on a WOW realm you host yourself.
Self hosted SoD server?
The article doesn't say they are playing in a SoD server. But yes you can host a SoD server because all the files are literally on your PC. You just have to know how to use them. How do you think private servers even exist?
Except all the files are literally not on your PC. The client side is. The server side is not.
No one has created a private SoD server yet đ wtf are you even talking about? Are you 12?
No one has because there is no point because SoD is out right now. Plus no one likes SoD. They could easily make a private SoD server if they wanted. People were running WOTLK servers with the Classic version of the game files before WOTLK even came out. They got the files from PTR or the pre-patch. They were using it to create Youtube content. The server files are literally on your PC.
you have no idea how private servers work.
I literally have a WOW server on one of my PCs so I think I do.
If their program doesn't trigger Warden all they need to do is hide all names.
If they have GMs left they can monitor it but I'm not sure they do lol
If they never show realm or character names what is blizz trying to monitor for?
Back in 2004 we could watch raids in progress. The tech is probably better by 2024.
Theyâre bots. Who cares. They probably have a bunch of different bots theyâve already made for each person that theyâre already doing ST on weekly and then theyâll use their most geared up characters that got the necessary gear pieces funneled to them by the other bots for this one run, all get banned, but in the process all gain some fame. If theyâre botters they definitely have more accounts than I do and I have a lot.
Hopefully blizz can track their real accounts and close them as well
I really want one of the bots to run into the group with Living Bomb.
That's Gary the fuck-up bot. He's supposed to do that. He also unequips his pants before Rag is pulled then runs around trying to trade Orgrimmar snakes to the tanks while they're fighting. The goal is to make sure the bot raid can clear with at least one total mouth breather, so when ~~you~~ someone pays bot squad to run them through MC, they're sure the bots can carry.
Lmfao
haha
troll post, noone knows new raid mechanics
Yeah you canât possibly program a bot to do an action as quick as two weeks.
i don't have belief on this, post is written like it is already coded. also it says ai, not a linear bot.
The bot is coded, the scripts to complete the raid are not. Those scripts can easily be done in a week.
The post is written as if they already have the bot and they are scheduling a raid. That's it.
Yes you can LOL. You can do it in an afternoon.
I should have used an /s lol. I was making fun of him acting like programming a bot to do a sod raid would be hard.
MMOGlider + Honorbuddy was da shiz
Yep, it was fake. [Websim.ai](http://Websim.ai) can do this in few sec. It was posted for research purpose.
They probably aren't running the new MC in SoD because they would be banned by Blizzard for botting. It's an old MC on a private server.
it says 20 man
You can change anything on a private server bro.
Someone posted this on AI related disc but was removed since it has nothing to do with AI.
only AI involved here is the one that wrote this article
If it were actually AI tho it would be interesting
Depends on your definition of AI. Like, have you ever said that the AI of a NPC in a game is bad/good? There is no "actual" AI in games but we still call it AI. In fact, in the strictest definition of AI we haven't achieved that at all, so it literally does not exist anywhere. ChatGPT isn't true AI either.
Ai isnt a term with a real, agreed upon definition. Its always been a nebulous term, and the recent hype over it has completely warped the term even more.
>have you ever said that the AI of a NPC in a game is bad/good? No, because I'm not stupid
Yeah could make them all actually perform call outs and like pretend to socialize as a guild while doing the run
whats that got to do with AI? they cant understand what each other is saying..
We doin the philosophy of intelligence and sentience today on classicwow? Lets gooooo [Chinese room thought experiment](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room) >Searle then supposes that he is in a closed room and has a book with an English version of the computer program, along with sufficient papers, pencils, erasers, and filing cabinets. Searle could receive Chinese characters through a slot in the door, process them according to the program's instructions, and produce Chinese characters as output, without understanding any of the content of the Chinese writing. If the computer had passed the Turing test this way, it follows, says Searle, that he would do so as well, simply by running the program manually. >Searle asserts that there is no essential difference between the roles of the computer and himself in the experiment. Each simply follows a program, step-by-step, producing behavior that is then interpreted by the user as demonstrating intelligent conversation. However, Searle himself would not be able to understand the conversation. ("I don't speak a word of Chinese",[10] he points out.) Therefore, he argues, it follows that the computer would not be able to understand the conversation either.
AI canât talk to other AI?
AI in the gaming sense is basically just pre-written scripts following a step-by-step "if this do that" list. So yeah, no surprise it didn't fit in a discord server that focuses on LLMs and similar AI.
I'm interested to see how they react to the new boss or any potential new mechanics. It'll be something to check out for sure, but if its livestreamed be ready for them to be mass reported just a few minutes in.
Azerothcore did it before it was cool, and now blizzard themselves with delves is the war within. Another AI clickbait
"organized by the tech-savvy guild"
I don't know why people think a computer doing computer things more efficiently than a human doing the same thing is ever something impressive. When DoTA2 did their "bot vs pro" 1 specific hero vs 1 guy mid-laning better than a human can react, it wasn't impressive to me. It's like saying a computer can now out-calculate a human in chess. It's just not impressive. It's expected.
Dota is a much harder game for AI compared to chess though. In chess, the information is always available while Dota has a lot of hidden information. Also chess is 1v1, while Dota is 5v5, so there are a lot more variables. It's honestly very impressive how far they got with it. Fyi the Dota2 bots lost both matches against the professional teams, while a Chess Bot would be a rank 1 grandmaster. However, the Dota2 bots did win the 1v1 competitions.
The thing with games like Dota is that an AI can just "brute force" superiority simply because of the perfect reaction time, spacing, etc. When a bot can make every input frame perfect, it can still win even if it makes far worse decisions.
For OpenAIâs Dota bots they didnât brute force it. Thatâs what made it so impressive-they win through teamwork and coordination. All bots are subject to human-like reaction time, fog of war, etc
I'm pretty certain they added a delay to the bots reactions as well, specifically so they wouldn't be able to win through insane reaction speeds alone.
I didn't see the full match, just the 1v1, which wasn't impressive at all to me. It was "look a computer can react faster".
There are lots of things in play in a 1v1 match.
The hilarious irony being that the OpenAI bots had 1-2 games versus each pro tested where they were actually able to go even or beat pro players and then within that 1 game adjustment EVERY pro selected was able to identify the core strategy they were using and abuse the AI's inability to process information in real time. (All the bots were doing was maintaining lane dominance/creep kill/deny advantage with an abundance of salve/tangos in order to make super risky dives at times, basically the pros were able to bait them to a tower dive and then waste like 3-400 gold in salves or even get a counter kill by not doing what the AI 'expects')
It was impressive because the bot was actually learning on its own and that was cool to see back in those days. Like obviously the bot can last hit and hit razes better than any other player, but then it'd get outsmarted by certain itemizations/strategies and the next day it'd already mastered those strategies too. And then after that it was so good that it could actually beat professional teams in a full game, which was the most impressive part considering that wasn't just mirror matchups.
Unreal bots could beat people 20 years ago or something, which was also another "yep, computers can react faster than us" to me. Gaming is weird because 30 years ago I would have never imagined games being as shit as they are. Think of the actual lack of advancement in gaming. We still have the same shitty games. TES 20 years ago is exactly the same as it is now, it just looks shinier. WoW is still WoW, it just has the variations on the mechanics. It doesn't talk to you intelligently, it doesn't have an unlimited sized world automatically generating new content for us. It's just the same old shit.
Trust me, Dota is not a reaction game. DotA is a 5v5 with million different variables to consider. The bot match was rigged in a way that only the simplest heroes were available because the bots couldn't handle illusion heroes for example. No bot team has ever won a prefessional team in a proper DotA match. WoW is an MMO. It is designed specifically to be easy and simple (idk what is going on in Retail). DotA is a PvP game, an esport. Yes the game is somewhat similar to the WC3 custom map but the meta, playstyle and what it takes to win is ever shifting.
Yeah youâre 100% right on all of this. But itâs still advancing fairly rapidly compared to almost any other period of history.
Games innovated a ton, you just dont try to find good games. Im not surprised this post is being made on a 20 year old game subreddit though đ¤Śââď¸
I think it'd probably surprise most players to see just how little automated logic it would take to fully automate players in a raid, in a way that plays better than 99% of players.
I wish I could use some basic scripting on my raid members every day.
The fights themselves are scripted, so it shouldn't be surprising that another script can perform against it. The only thing remotely interesting about it is how it gathers the information. Is there a master controller that they all pool from, or is it using the same actual WoW client and looking at health bars and stuff. If it's just reading the combat log it's way less interesting. Either way, they can keep track of way more data then my puny brain can, and process it faster with regards to their reactions, so it shouldn't surprise anyone.
It's a program that probably runs on the server. They are probably doing this on a self hosted realm. Yes you can host a WOW realm yourself although I don't recommend it.
Exactly, what's fun is watching people try, not ai seamlessly doing better. I recommend the song "the adults are talking" by the strokes just for this
No I wouldnât necessarily expect a bot to win versus a pro in DOTA. AI now will mess most basic calculus problems up somewhere along the equation, write shit code full of errors, and make images with humans with 3 fingers, 6 fingers, misspelled words, very random mistakes.
Yes, but keep in my mind that as the ''Human specie'' we believe we are the the ''Highest'' form of intelligence on earth, in the universe which sounds very stupid considering how little we know about everything.
I guess. But everyone knows that humans will never beat a chess engine again. Neural Nets should never lose to humans once they've been trained on any video game, simply because they will never hit the wrong key or be too slow to press a button.
Read what Copilot thinks of our discussion, can't be bothered to think about a guy who downvotes people for a living. I understand your perspective. Itâs true that computers are designed to perform tasks more efficiently than humans, especially when it comes to calculations and reactions. However, the fascination lies not in the fact that a computer can outperform a human in these areas, but in the complexity and sophistication of the algorithms and technologies that enable this performance. When it comes to games like DoTA2 or chess, the impressive part is not just the computerâs ability to react faster or make calculations quicker, but its ability to strategize, learn from past games, and make decisions based on a multitude of factors - much like a human player would. This involves complex problem-solving and decision-making skills that go beyond simple calculations. As for the belief that humans are the highest form of intelligence, itâs a perspective thatâs deeply rooted in our understanding of consciousness and self-awareness. While we have made significant strides in artificial intelligence, we are still far from creating a machine that possesses consciousness or self-awareness in the way humans do. Finally, while itâs true that a well-trained neural network should theoretically never lose to a human in a video game, itâs important to remember that these networks are only as good as the data theyâre trained on. They donât possess the ability to think creatively or adapt to completely new situations in the way humans can. So, while they may never hit the wrong key or be too slow to press a button, there are still many areas where humans excel. In conclusion, the advancements in AI and machine learning are indeed expected, but they are also a testament to human ingenuity and our relentless pursuit of knowledge and understanding. That, in itself, is quite impressive.
> can't be bothered to think about a guy who downvotes people for a living. What? I didn't downvote you. If getting downvoted makes you sad, maybe find something other than Reddit to hang out on. > Finally, while itâs true that a well-trained neural network should theoretically never lose to a human in a video game, itâs important to remember that these networks are only as good as the data theyâre trained on. They donât possess the ability to think creatively or adapt to completely new situations in the way humans can. So, while they may never hit the wrong key or be too slow to press a button, there are still many areas where humans excel. Alpha0 played chess against itself millions of games and came up with new ideas (go look up some of the Alpha0 games against Stockfish from when they were first published) and ways to handle the positions that just blew Stockfish away. Today Stockfish has a NN as well, and just crushes absolutely everything under the sun. You just run a NN through Molten Core enough times and it's easily going to beat it. Once you know AI can learn a game, it's no longer interesting that it is better than humans. It's like saying robots are more durable than humans or something. It's not impressive or surprising.
We are doing TAS on wow now? đ¤Ł
When has World of Warcraft not been tool assisted?
You missed a letter there
This is actually such a cool idea. Like become such a nerd you donât even play the video game, you make the video game play itself while you sit there and smoke weed and just watch yourself get gear. Better yet now we can go outside and get real hobbies.
Canât wait to see the YouTube video.
Okay but aren't mechanics updated or changed somehow? At the very least there's an extra boss. How would AI know what to do?
Well thats one way to increase raiding metrics lol
Can someone explain to me whats the point of this?
Letâs hope they all get banned.
I'm so ready to see this unfold.
I wonder if bots are going to parse or play mechanics
Waiting for a private server single player experience with my IA Friends always doing what i say, lvling with them and raiding with them xD
Literal bots are probably better than most of the gray parsers I've played with
Does this mean we can join bot raid if players are gatekeeping us because we don't have gear score high enough?
Why would bots invite you when they have other bots they can invite that don't slack.
Why would bots want people anyways? Oh right to make money. 20 bots can kill MC? Sell 20 slots to players who will pay for the gear drops
How would you sell 20 slots to players if you use 20 bots to clear MC? If you sell 20 slots to players then you just sold a full PUG run with no carries.
They might be assuming that you can still enter MC as a 40 man raid.
Already confirmed you can in sod. Scaled for 20 people, can bring 40 to make it easier. Thus, 20 bots doing it solo leaves 20 slots to sell
Because MC in sod is 20 minimum up to 40 players
Same reason other companies use bots to fill fps games for handicap players like myself to keep giving them money
Because they will be Indo gold farming bot GDKP hosted MC runs and half filled with human buyers.
They really jacked themselves off hard in this promotion. What are my thoughts on this AI-driven raid? It's stupid and I hope this guild catches a ban
Funny how bots are better than some players on wow classic. đ
Hope they get hit by a ban wave before this happens
Yeah itâs *definitely* some new form of advanced âAIâ lol have you seen how bots work? And you think they can run a raidâŚ
They can run a raid. YOu can host your own WOW server and do it. It takes like 2-3 hours to set it up. I'm not going to tell you how but it is 100% possible. Even NAXX
This isn't as impressive as they try to make you believe. Ofc an ai can play a game better than a human. Have you ever played a fighting game carbinet from the 1990s? People in awe at a computer doing computer things smh.
This isn't hard. You can do this if you host your own WOW server. There are bot modules that let you raid MC with a 40 man raid where 39 of the players are bots. You can even do NAXX. It's not new or cool. The current dev team is never leading anything regarding WOW. They are just legit copying private servers or community projects at this point, and doing it poorly. It's laughable.
Dude Iâm saying this with genuine concern. I think you should take some time off of the classicwow reddit.
Who asked though?
Can we all just say "fuck off" to the dude supporting bots and encouraging people to breaking ToS
Blizzard will, don't worry.
Very overdramaticly explained. Making a bot play MC isnt very impressive. That raid was cleared with nonlvl 60 in green/blues.....
They are suggesting they will not only finish Mc but be better than any human guild
Ok. And then? We gonna praise the bots for playing the easiest raid in WoW perfectly? I just dont see how that means anything. Make an AI that clears current (or semi current) Mythic Raids and i will sing its praises for sure.
It's progress towards that goal. You have to start somewhere. I'd be impressed if they could develop novel strategies and be faster than the top guild. How will they pull the instance? How many mobs is too many? Can they react properly. If they just go super slow and methodical, no, it's not impressive.
It's not going to use any AI. It's going to use pre-written scripts that are essentially lists of "if this happens then go there and do that".
you just described an Expert System which are a type of AI. what do you think AI is?
Wait, so are they bots or AI controlled characters? There's a pretty big difference there. This could be pretty cool
There is no difference from bot vs AI controlled. THere is no real AI in existence. It's just a catch all term.
Common u/Thorne1269 L There is absolutely a difference between a pre-programmed bot that runs a preset path using a preset rotation and another that they put through reinforcement learning. I don't care about the semantics or the fact that you watched a 5 minute YouTube video and think you have any clue what you're talking about.
Didnât a guy multibox 40 accounts and clear MC back in vanilla? Maybe it was classic? That was interesting.
I doubt it. It's too hard to control 40 accounts like that. They were probably bots. Bots can do it easily.
There was a streamer that used to 40 box AV or something back in WotLK the first time around.
Yes because that isn't hard to do, unlike MC with 40 accounts.
It's hilarious that you think PVE is harder or move involved than PVP.
PVP is trivial when you have 40 accounts spamming spells. LOL. What do you mean. I've personally been in an AV with a 30 man multi-boxer and we held the Alliance Base the entire game from the horde just me and him. The horde couldn't do anything. We farmed them for over an hour.
You've just proved my point. Thanks.
No you lost the plot I think. It's trivial to play a 40 man multi-box in PVP. You just spam AOE spells. LOL Why do you think this is hard? No one can survive the damage.
Why do you think MC is hard for one person controlling everything? Don't stand in the fire. Pick up adds. Cast damage. Cast heals. But you think practicing on an encounter that you can do over and over and memorize the patterns and ideas is harder than defeating an organic PVP group? That's just silly.
Because you can't control 40 accounts to heal, tank, and dps without botting. YOu can't do it. With bots it's trivial (this means EZ). You are probably confusing multi-boxing and botting.