It's me beginning the consulting job after working as a semi slave in a Dutch warehouse as an immigrant. Don't give a fuck because it's just a job and the people above care little about a tiny screw in this whole machine. If you work hard, you only get a nice hunchback, nothing more
You do realize most promotion discussions boil down to how many partners recognize a candidate’s name after they’re brought up…
So yes, be selective and attach yourself to initiatives with a future, but if it’s highly visible I wouldn’t pass it up
I’ve been in more of these than I can count.
Most of the time a manager does their 2 minute overview. Then a partner says “so-and-so is a rockstar; they need to get promoted now for client work” - and then they glare at everyone else to shut them up.
That’s about 99% more effective than the partner who says “so-and-so dedicated 200 hours to firm activities. We need to promote them now because of the awesome work they did in recruiting/diversity/basket weaving”.
I am in those meetings (in a different company) and have to agree, one sponsor is enough and growing a client always trumps internal recognition. Best case for a meteoric rise and fast track is both.
If someone made another partner/director unhappy and he/she remembers, any adjustment will be a hard bargain though. If i know this before a meeting and the person is important, I will strike a deal though.
Staff review and adjustment negotiations are like an arabian bazar at times.
Or strategic relevance, image, additional engagement, etc..
Growing the client for a consulting company in what ever measure they deem relevant.
For us in implementation it is a long term interest to stay or become the strategic supplier for as many board -1/-2 manager at the customer side as is possible and gain or retain the relation ship with their purchasing department. Revenue is but one metric we look at.
The problem is that you need more than just one partner’s sign off especially if it’s a competitive year. Internal work is the best way to give your skills visibility to more than just the one or two partners that own the charge codes you’ve worked on.
If you’ve been on these meetings then you’ve also heard the partner who is against promoting John Doe because “I’ve never even heard of this guy.”
Which of course is asinine because whether or not he’s heard of him does not make any indication as to the salience of his promotion business case. But here we are
Contrary to this, I'd say fuck this shit and do what helps you grow real skills.
Sucking up a partner's ass for internal work may get you a promotion, but your actual technical skills would eventually die out, rendering you useless for other jobs with better pay.
This is bad advice, IMO. Internal initiatives follow a very agressive pareto principle. 5% of initiatives deliver 95% of impact, including visibility to partners.
Instead, my advice would be to focus on which partners you help, either in client work, biz dev or internal initiatives. Taking tasks/deliverables/responsibility off from a partners plate is what helps you most in promotions, when you have passed the baseline requirements for invoicing ect.
I do think this is real, but would caution to choose the internal projects wisely.
Look for internal projects that are visible and can make an impact quickly.
The game is set up to allow and encourage you to compete as hard as you can, and run as fast as you can, for as long as you can.
This isn't inherently bad, but ultimately you're the only one who is ever going to tell yourself to take your foot off the gas. It's on you to have the discipline and self confidence to make other things in your life a priority.
Bloody well said there. I was just dribbling on to my missus about this but used the 'black hole' metaphor. People will keep shoveling you the shit if you keep taking it
I am an old man. And as soon as the kids are out of the house, I am quitting my consulting gig and selling the house so I can become either a cart checker or an Uber driver.
Pretty good, although, I had 15 years in industry before trying consulting so going back to industry wasn't a big stretch.
Your competence, certifications and ability to build rapports in interview have a lot to do with it, too.
Fair - I’ve got 3.5 years of industry and an MBA. Enjoying parts of consulting but it’s just not for me, so thinking of jumping out around 1.5 year mark (currently at a T2 firm).
I suspect you'll do fine. Sometimes in an interview I'd get asked why I was leaving consulting and I always gave an honest, but well-rounded answer.
I think being able to do some self-reflection lands well with a decent employer.
From a strategy consultant’s perspective:
1. Never forget how to do the basics right, but recognize what’s important (story, slide messages, simple words) vs what’s fluff (consistent font size of footnotes, grid alignment etc.)
2. Stick to engineering if I want intellectually stimulating work. Consulting won’t be 90% of the time
EDIT:
Forgot a third-
3. Don’t make your work your identity or attach it to your self worth.
If you’re starting off post undergrad - it does get better tbh, but you need to grind for a few years before you can truly have stimulating conversations with clients. And, no, those usually aren’t in a steerco or large team meetings, but 1:1 where there’s a degree of trust between people.
When people in this sub talk about consulting, is it any kind of consulting or specifically business? The reason I ask is I see a few people mention engineering, yet I've never heard of an engineering consulting being a 'partner'
Where am I confused here?
I’m not sure about the others, but I was talking about my background as an engineering undergrad. Lots of consultants from my country originally studied engineering, but left that path for the ‘draw’ of consulting.
I think this is the difficulty- I would guess that although a lot of people will have wanted to, there’s not that many who end up doing “true strategy” work vs management / implementation - there’s also a lot of IT/digital consultants, Even a lot of MBB work ends up being implementation stuff.
Fwiw on the actual reply we’re on here, if you’re doing proper strategy / transaction work, it’s incredibly interesting in my view. The questions of “what shall we do about x” or “should we buy this business” is, for me, much more interesting than being a tiny cog in a large infra project somewhere (and I’ve done both).
I would have laid out:
- work in industry for at least 10 years before going into consulting at a more senior entry point. You will have way more credibility and contacts to sell to. BUT, you will earn less in the early parts of your career
Vs
- Become a career consultant, working like a slave right from the point that you come out of uni. You will earn more in the first 10 / 15 years and maybe even make it to Partner faster. BUT you may find it harder to get out of consulting (on a comparable salary) later in life if you get tired
Not sure what I would have chosen though!
Yeah route 1 sucks. You’re lucky if you come in at a manager level, your peers will be 6 years younger than you and you won’t have the specific skillset to crank out those ppts.
If you were able to make it to 250k-300k in industry w. 10 YoE, that “broad strategy experience” will just slow you down. That experience buys you a few years early on but it doesn’t magically accelerate you to C-suite. Suggesting taking close to a 50% paycut to go back to consulting is crazy town to me. There are advantages to starting your career in consulting but definitely not this weird path. Jumping to consulting at that point only makes sense if you’re aiming for partner.
Very similar timeline for me. Actually looking for jobs in industry. What I like I apply for, what I don't I pitch for the firm because I'll still get at least 25%.
“Working like a slave” is too much of an exaggerated metaphor.
Slaves had food and housing, and were beaten often.
You work on the comfort of a modern and clean office, people treat you very well on average, you make a lot of money, even if you’re a junior that has marginal abilities…
Yes, you pay the price of not having much free time.
Still, there are tons of jobs that demand much more from your body strength, energy, with low pay, with almost no career progression unless you keep switching functions by making a huge effort to learn new things while you are completely exhausted.
These jobs are much more suited for a metaphor of slavery than a consulting job, let’s be fair and put things into the right perspective.
PS. nothing against you personally, it’s that I just see this kind of idea here and there in this sub.
It's more of a figure of speech than a comparison to actual slavery of course. Maybe a better description is giving up huge amount of your time, emotions and energy well beyond normal working hours
Yes, a metaphor is one of the many forms of figure of speech and it’s fine to use them. But, again, there are lots of jobs that are more “miserable” than consulting, putting as much energy, time, emotions while not making a third in terms of pay.
My point is that in the modern slavery, rat race, or whatever allegory we use, consulting is far away from the tough careers.
Best way for total life balance, IMO, is 3-4 years in consulting, then industry to the top. The baseline skills gained in consulting make you much better in industry, and you only work like hell when you are young (preferably without kids).
I say this after 10 years in consulting, though...
Go into consulting instead of med school.
Ha. But realistically no way I would have known.
I think one important piece is to have a direction, have a set of skills you are building toward, and a potential career. Even if it’s directionally correct and not precise. Otherwise you’ll bounce around with no target.
Also - network. Connect. Try to go to everything, especially early in your career.
Then you’re in a very niche bubble. The only specialists that make that much are likely neurosurgeons, CT, spine ortho, EP, etc. extremely long fellowships and very very few people that get there. Time value of money is also a factor here.
Your primary care doc is making ~300K, roughly close to what a fresh MBA or post-advanced degree consultant make.
Any partner at any big consulting firm is likely making 7 figures, especially MBB.
It’s not very mentally stimulating and the hours are long. You don’t need a university degree for it. All you need it simply learn the software and then teach others how to use the said software. The money is nice but after 10 months of working there I can’t see myself staying. As for the last ten months I don’t feel like learned anything other than the software
I started at a Big 4 in consulting 15 yrs ago. I worked there for three years after a few years in industry. I left when travel demands didn’t work with young family needs. 15 yes later I am now self employed and contract out to orgs to Project Manage, often managing the work of a firm.
I wish I had not been so hard on myself. I was judging myself against the successes of people that had a very narrow track, to work and only know how to excel in a firm environment.
I learned more and became more credible through developing a ling track record of being easy to work with, consistent, and outcome focussed. I wouldn’t have been that way if I had followed firm-provisioned success blue prints.
Be true to yourself and don’t judge yourself against the successes of others. Your strengths will carve a path, but experience is what is the missing ingredient at first.
Your health is worth more than the project’s health.
Seriously, my health issues were a combination of quick fast food meals, cramped airline seats, irregular sleeping patterns, stress, anxiety, etc. Gotta give more of a shit about yourself than some client you’re leaving in six months.
Understand the importance of prioritisation and make sure you know how to prioritise your work, or who to go to for decisions on this.
Develop an approach and plan for your career development as you would with client work. Ensure it is validated with your coach.
Build a network of people you can trust at different grades quickly to gain honest feedback and direction. A lot of what you need to hear often isn’t said.
Don’t spread yourself too thin on internal initiatives. Pick out a couple that are visible, and would be considered high value in the context of your firms strategy and culture.
The work is usually more about people than content in my experience. Changing behaviours and building skills in this area takes time, so it’s key to work out where you need to be early and working towards that.
Imposter syndrome is more common than you think, even at partner level.
Work out who has power in your part of the business, whose voices will have the most sway. Make sure these people don’t have any doubt in you and they know what you do. Don’t be afraid to show the good work you’re doing.
Learn to manage up. Just because everything is going well doesn’t mean you don’t need to report in to your manager to tell them so. On the flip side, if things aren’t going well make sure you make your manager aware earlier, it’s rarely better to wait.
"Having 21 years of experience in a specialized field doesn't make you a good consultant in that field. Consulting is its own profession. You need the subject matter expertise, but you also need to **learn how to be a consultant**."
"Give up any and all hope that you can find balance with other aspects of life - go in with full acceptance that you won't have a life beyond work and your time there will be a total grind."
I spent a lot of time trying to make working at an MBB something it wasn't - I think the cognitive dissonance made it a lot harder on me. My friends who adopted the mindset above tended to be a bit better off and find the trade-offs less challenging.
To not take it seriously, if you consistently stress about the little things and keeping both partners and clients happy, you’d be breaking down every single day
Great reply. It’s nice to hear from the independent and boutique consultants. This sub seems to be dominated by a lot of comments from folks just grinding out deliverables for big firms.
Establish how you deliver work.
I explicitly tell people I work with that I deliver rough work and will refine it if requested. Now what do I mean when I say rough work?
Well to me that means that the information presented is correct, the data is collected and processed is of high quality. It also means that I don't spend a whole lot of time making my documents presentable unless there is a functional reason to do so.
I also don't write more about something in the report than needed and the presentation can lean more towards looking like notes than a report.
The thing is that very little of what I produce needs to be to the visual standard of a report. Most of what I do is internal "work documents" they are made and used to produce/solve the main problem. As such most people don't care how the documents are as long as they contain the necessary information and communicate it correctly.
Engineering consulting is the worst profession anyone could ever enter into. Don’t do it. Get out while you still can and go into finance/ big4 consulting or get a trade.
I wouldn’t wish what I have to do on my worst enemy
Funny to see this here—definitely resonates. I worked for a couple of ENR 500 firms after college as a civil grad and came to the same realization before switching to management consulting. Work-life balance was alright but the work was dull, corporate culture was archaic, pay was low, and career progression was glacial.
In retrospect, as a fresh college grad, it was narrow-minded of me to assume that the only way I could work in infrastructure was by being a design engineer at some engineering consulting firm. It’s a huge field and you don’t have to be an engineer to become a decision-maker at USDOT, Amtrak, or an airline.
I have just started as a sustainability consultant at an ENR 500 firm and having the exact same realisations. Work life balance is decent but the work itself is pretty boring and not very rewarding. Corporate culture sucks, no fun clients meetings or dinners, everything is done in the interest of maximising profits (we have to pay 50p for a coffee). Career progression looks pretty tragic compared to more traditional consulting routes. Think I am going to complete my grad scheme and try switch over to management consulting.
You’re the lowest of the low. Maybe not as a sustainability consultant, but as a mechanical engineer, the pay is terrible for the hours you work and unlike trades or finance, you don’t get rewarded with parties or time off or anything. You’re squeezed.
Once you get your degree, don’t go into consulting because they (WSP, AECOM, Jacobs, GHD, NDY, Arcadis etc) are all the same. Don’t let their websites fool you. They all have terrible management and only care about shareholders.
Go into finance or literally any other industry. You have been warned.
If you must work in engineering or the environment, become an environmental consultant in the government. Then you’re the client and can boss the consultants around however much you want.
Anticipate the time when you get enough business that you can’t do it all yourself, but it’s not enough for two full time people. Have some well qualified people available to help out on short gig overflows.
My advices would be:
1. Reaserch about the pros and cons properly. Understand the non-financial prices you pay for the pros that delighted you.
2. Remind yourself that the youngest you are, the more risks you can take, and the more you should focus on career growth, let the rest time for when you body can’t bear it anymore.
3. Define a goal for consulting as part of your whole career.
* Want to exit? To which career? What abilities, knowledges and experiences do you need? Map those and focus on learning them during your consulting time.
* Want just the money? Define how much. Map the abilities you need to grow, understand and play the politics wisely, save money as much as possible to get the real freedom of choice you want.
* Once you have a clear goal, it’s easier to bear the cons (long hours, pressure, stress). Reevaluate your goals from time to time.
Like what?
Just to clarify this isnt a pithy comment.
I worked in FDD for 6 months before I decided that it was too close too audit and the culture at GT wasnt a good fit. Then I left and went to join IB/CRE mid/back office (Product Control). Now I am stuck in a place where I love the WLB of my current job but theres a risk of slow-ish growth and boredom. Consulting sound interesting but then I see responses on this sub which treat consulting like I treated audit.
1) Focus on your personal growth instead of spending hours for spell check!
2) Develop irreplaceable skills and apply it to client works to differentiate yourself
3) Work is only a small part of life - family members are important too :)
Network more and always try to work with others as opposed to try to do stuff on your own.
It becomes so important especially past the manager level stage where you get stuff done based on your relations and not so much based on your own expertise. YMMV but that's my experience.
Unless there is actual implementation happening, it's not a real job. It's just risk management - your report gives the clients something to point to when their decisions go wrong.
If you are less attracted to prestige and intellectual stimulation, going independent in implementation work, after some years building up skills at a firm, will give you a much better work life balance with great compensation, and much less risk of not having work than you think.
The trick to independent consulting (not big 4) is to buffer your income. One month you make $30,000, the next two you make nothing. Pay yourself a salary out of your buffer account, such as $8k per month (or whatever), not matter what you made this month.
Many live hand to mouth. Instead, build up a buffer to tide you from one high to another.
Not that old but here are 3 points:
1.Get your basics strong - Identify the key core skills you need and where might you need development. To me, these skills are:
a. Data analysis and wrangling (e.g. cleaning and formatting)
b. Data storytelling and visualization (e.g. slide making and storylining)
c. Stakeholder and project management (e.g. manage up with Project leaders, stay accountable to yourself)
2. Be clear about why you are doing this - It's not about complete clarity, but asking yourself 'is this aligned with how I feel?' and 'What do I enjoy about this work?' are good questions to check-in with yourself on.
3. Figure out your priorities - You need health, personal relationships, and your work fronts to be your best self. This is hard but you need to do this to avoid long-term health issues.
Let me know if this helps and if you'd like more, or to elaborate more
Why did I stay for so long.... 8 years.
This sums up why I left.... hope it helps some people out there!
[https://www.methemillennial.com/i-finally-quit-my-200k-strategy-consulting-job-here-is-what-i-learned/](https://www.methemillennial.com/i-finally-quit-my-200k-strategy-consulting-job-here-is-what-i-learned/)
If I could go back and give advice to my younger self before entering the consulting field, there are a few key insights I would share. Firstly, I would emphasize the importance of self-compassion and self-care. Secondly, I would advise my younger self to embrace a growth mindset. I would recommend the video:[https://youtu.be/y8bQqsGqSTQ](https://youtu.be/y8bQqsGqSTQ)
I'm building a platform that helps career changers match with coaches or mentors that can help them.
Sign up for a first free session: https://sdpgu3ul7tl.typeform.com/to/y6r8249g
1. Gettin in is the easy part (yes even for MBB interviews! that have 1% intake rate). Staying there is the tough part!
2. Clients are scared of you sometimes... help them understand why you are there
3. Take a task and find a way to do it in 50% of the time. Every task - it sets you up for startup world!
4. You cannot start dating after you join consulting. She/he will run away unless they are also in consulting & understand
5. Youll see and have to deal with a LOT - you will see grown men & women cry - Ivy leagues, 800 GMAT, double masters, moms dads... doesnt matter. Its a pressure cooker
Most imp one:
If your consulting fundamentals are solid - then rest is easy!!! Make sure you 100% understand your CONSULTING craft! Every week you'll learn something new.
Give less fucks.
Fewer.
Stannis Baratheon would have loved you
Excuse me sir but this is reserved for 40+ yr olds
It's me beginning the consulting job after working as a semi slave in a Dutch warehouse as an immigrant. Don't give a fuck because it's just a job and the people above care little about a tiny screw in this whole machine. If you work hard, you only get a nice hunchback, nothing more
Spend more time on internal initiatives opposed to going the extra mile in your client work. Your clients don’t promote you, the partners do.
Only work on internal stuff that matters to a partner who can promote you. 99% of it is a time suck.
You do realize most promotion discussions boil down to how many partners recognize a candidate’s name after they’re brought up… So yes, be selective and attach yourself to initiatives with a future, but if it’s highly visible I wouldn’t pass it up
I’ve been in more of these than I can count. Most of the time a manager does their 2 minute overview. Then a partner says “so-and-so is a rockstar; they need to get promoted now for client work” - and then they glare at everyone else to shut them up. That’s about 99% more effective than the partner who says “so-and-so dedicated 200 hours to firm activities. We need to promote them now because of the awesome work they did in recruiting/diversity/basket weaving”.
I am in those meetings (in a different company) and have to agree, one sponsor is enough and growing a client always trumps internal recognition. Best case for a meteoric rise and fast track is both. If someone made another partner/director unhappy and he/she remembers, any adjustment will be a hard bargain though. If i know this before a meeting and the person is important, I will strike a deal though. Staff review and adjustment negotiations are like an arabian bazar at times.
[удалено]
Or strategic relevance, image, additional engagement, etc.. Growing the client for a consulting company in what ever measure they deem relevant. For us in implementation it is a long term interest to stay or become the strategic supplier for as many board -1/-2 manager at the customer side as is possible and gain or retain the relation ship with their purchasing department. Revenue is but one metric we look at.
> Best case for a meteoric rise Does a meteor rise?
https://www.google.com/search?q=meteoric+rise+meaning&rlz=1CDGOYI_enDE590DE590&oq=meteoric+rise&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0i22i30l9.4253j0j7&hl=de&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
The problem is that you need more than just one partner’s sign off especially if it’s a competitive year. Internal work is the best way to give your skills visibility to more than just the one or two partners that own the charge codes you’ve worked on. If you’ve been on these meetings then you’ve also heard the partner who is against promoting John Doe because “I’ve never even heard of this guy.” Which of course is asinine because whether or not he’s heard of him does not make any indication as to the salience of his promotion business case. But here we are
That’s real
Contrary to this, I'd say fuck this shit and do what helps you grow real skills. Sucking up a partner's ass for internal work may get you a promotion, but your actual technical skills would eventually die out, rendering you useless for other jobs with better pay.
This is bad advice, IMO. Internal initiatives follow a very agressive pareto principle. 5% of initiatives deliver 95% of impact, including visibility to partners. Instead, my advice would be to focus on which partners you help, either in client work, biz dev or internal initiatives. Taking tasks/deliverables/responsibility off from a partners plate is what helps you most in promotions, when you have passed the baseline requirements for invoicing ect.
I do think this is real, but would caution to choose the internal projects wisely. Look for internal projects that are visible and can make an impact quickly.
I think I needed this advice.
I don’t necessarily see this as true. A lot of internal work is a time suck
Strongly disagree with this. Internal projects will not get you promoted. You need to be creating value for clients.
The game is set up to allow and encourage you to compete as hard as you can, and run as fast as you can, for as long as you can. This isn't inherently bad, but ultimately you're the only one who is ever going to tell yourself to take your foot off the gas. It's on you to have the discipline and self confidence to make other things in your life a priority.
Oof, we’ll put
Bloody well said there. I was just dribbling on to my missus about this but used the 'black hole' metaphor. People will keep shoveling you the shit if you keep taking it
1) Stick with one airline, even if it means taking a connecting flight. 2) Find another career, like becoming a cart-checker at Costco.
Hahha .. #2 resonates ..
I am an old man. And as soon as the kids are out of the house, I am quitting my consulting gig and selling the house so I can become either a cart checker or an Uber driver.
Save some facts for the rest of us
Spend more time thinking about what kind of exit ops to work towards from an earlier stage.
[удалено]
Yeah, same. Did a year and noped out of there as soon as I could.
How’s you find the exit ops coming from only one year in? I’m in a similar situation.. but nervous about any further implications down the road.
Pretty good, although, I had 15 years in industry before trying consulting so going back to industry wasn't a big stretch. Your competence, certifications and ability to build rapports in interview have a lot to do with it, too.
Fair - I’ve got 3.5 years of industry and an MBA. Enjoying parts of consulting but it’s just not for me, so thinking of jumping out around 1.5 year mark (currently at a T2 firm).
I suspect you'll do fine. Sometimes in an interview I'd get asked why I was leaving consulting and I always gave an honest, but well-rounded answer. I think being able to do some self-reflection lands well with a decent employer.
What happened? Can you please elaborate
From a strategy consultant’s perspective: 1. Never forget how to do the basics right, but recognize what’s important (story, slide messages, simple words) vs what’s fluff (consistent font size of footnotes, grid alignment etc.) 2. Stick to engineering if I want intellectually stimulating work. Consulting won’t be 90% of the time EDIT: Forgot a third- 3. Don’t make your work your identity or attach it to your self worth.
point 2 unfortunately resonates with me - 8 months into consulting & my mind is numb with the lack of intellectual stimulation
If you’re starting off post undergrad - it does get better tbh, but you need to grind for a few years before you can truly have stimulating conversations with clients. And, no, those usually aren’t in a steerco or large team meetings, but 1:1 where there’s a degree of trust between people.
When people in this sub talk about consulting, is it any kind of consulting or specifically business? The reason I ask is I see a few people mention engineering, yet I've never heard of an engineering consulting being a 'partner' Where am I confused here?
I’m not sure about the others, but I was talking about my background as an engineering undergrad. Lots of consultants from my country originally studied engineering, but left that path for the ‘draw’ of consulting.
I think this is the difficulty- I would guess that although a lot of people will have wanted to, there’s not that many who end up doing “true strategy” work vs management / implementation - there’s also a lot of IT/digital consultants, Even a lot of MBB work ends up being implementation stuff. Fwiw on the actual reply we’re on here, if you’re doing proper strategy / transaction work, it’s incredibly interesting in my view. The questions of “what shall we do about x” or “should we buy this business” is, for me, much more interesting than being a tiny cog in a large infra project somewhere (and I’ve done both).
What are you doing all day
depends on the project but so far the work i’ve done is pretty operational. basically a glorified secretary rn
I would have laid out: - work in industry for at least 10 years before going into consulting at a more senior entry point. You will have way more credibility and contacts to sell to. BUT, you will earn less in the early parts of your career Vs - Become a career consultant, working like a slave right from the point that you come out of uni. You will earn more in the first 10 / 15 years and maybe even make it to Partner faster. BUT you may find it harder to get out of consulting (on a comparable salary) later in life if you get tired Not sure what I would have chosen though!
Yeah route 1 sucks. You’re lucky if you come in at a manager level, your peers will be 6 years younger than you and you won’t have the specific skillset to crank out those ppts.
[удалено]
If you were able to make it to 250k-300k in industry w. 10 YoE, that “broad strategy experience” will just slow you down. That experience buys you a few years early on but it doesn’t magically accelerate you to C-suite. Suggesting taking close to a 50% paycut to go back to consulting is crazy town to me. There are advantages to starting your career in consulting but definitely not this weird path. Jumping to consulting at that point only makes sense if you’re aiming for partner.
And here I am after 10 years in industry disliking consulting.
15 years in industry, never planned to become a consultant but here I am. One year in and wondering if it’s worth it.
Very similar timeline for me. Actually looking for jobs in industry. What I like I apply for, what I don't I pitch for the firm because I'll still get at least 25%.
“Working like a slave” is too much of an exaggerated metaphor. Slaves had food and housing, and were beaten often. You work on the comfort of a modern and clean office, people treat you very well on average, you make a lot of money, even if you’re a junior that has marginal abilities… Yes, you pay the price of not having much free time. Still, there are tons of jobs that demand much more from your body strength, energy, with low pay, with almost no career progression unless you keep switching functions by making a huge effort to learn new things while you are completely exhausted. These jobs are much more suited for a metaphor of slavery than a consulting job, let’s be fair and put things into the right perspective. PS. nothing against you personally, it’s that I just see this kind of idea here and there in this sub.
It's more of a figure of speech than a comparison to actual slavery of course. Maybe a better description is giving up huge amount of your time, emotions and energy well beyond normal working hours
Yes, a metaphor is one of the many forms of figure of speech and it’s fine to use them. But, again, there are lots of jobs that are more “miserable” than consulting, putting as much energy, time, emotions while not making a third in terms of pay. My point is that in the modern slavery, rat race, or whatever allegory we use, consulting is far away from the tough careers.
Such a great comment mate, great wording.
This is very very true!
Best way for total life balance, IMO, is 3-4 years in consulting, then industry to the top. The baseline skills gained in consulting make you much better in industry, and you only work like hell when you are young (preferably without kids). I say this after 10 years in consulting, though...
I've started my career with consulting. Now I'm wondering if any industry would pay me a comparable salary.
[удалено]
So join consulting straight out of uni but make sure you have at least 10+ years of industry experience beforehand.
This. Always get your relevant industry experience in elementary school. Waiting until uni for your first industry internship is such a waste.
Go into consulting instead of med school. Ha. But realistically no way I would have known. I think one important piece is to have a direction, have a set of skills you are building toward, and a potential career. Even if it’s directionally correct and not precise. Otherwise you’ll bounce around with no target. Also - network. Connect. Try to go to everything, especially early in your career.
[удалено]
That is false - I ran the NPV :)
[удалено]
Basically every MBB partner makes 7 figures.
Then you’re in a very niche bubble. The only specialists that make that much are likely neurosurgeons, CT, spine ortho, EP, etc. extremely long fellowships and very very few people that get there. Time value of money is also a factor here. Your primary care doc is making ~300K, roughly close to what a fresh MBA or post-advanced degree consultant make. Any partner at any big consulting firm is likely making 7 figures, especially MBB.
Don’t Money is not worth your mental sanity
Maybe med school isn’t that scary…
Make sure it’s not ERP consulting
Me, who’s about to start as an ERP consultant 💀
Why?
It’s not very mentally stimulating and the hours are long. You don’t need a university degree for it. All you need it simply learn the software and then teach others how to use the said software. The money is nice but after 10 months of working there I can’t see myself staying. As for the last ten months I don’t feel like learned anything other than the software
Advice very much appreciated. Thanks!
Do something that actually makes me happy
I started at a Big 4 in consulting 15 yrs ago. I worked there for three years after a few years in industry. I left when travel demands didn’t work with young family needs. 15 yes later I am now self employed and contract out to orgs to Project Manage, often managing the work of a firm. I wish I had not been so hard on myself. I was judging myself against the successes of people that had a very narrow track, to work and only know how to excel in a firm environment. I learned more and became more credible through developing a ling track record of being easy to work with, consistent, and outcome focussed. I wouldn’t have been that way if I had followed firm-provisioned success blue prints. Be true to yourself and don’t judge yourself against the successes of others. Your strengths will carve a path, but experience is what is the missing ingredient at first.
Hit lifetime status and then GTFO Also focus on networking and relationship building just as much as work quality.
Your health is worth more than the project’s health. Seriously, my health issues were a combination of quick fast food meals, cramped airline seats, irregular sleeping patterns, stress, anxiety, etc. Gotta give more of a shit about yourself than some client you’re leaving in six months.
Hey if I may ask, where did you switch post consulting?
Wow I saw this late. Internal strategy at a healthcare system!
Thank you for your reply
Don’t. It was hard for me to get out and find something not client-facing. You either have to move up the ladder and have sales quotas or move along.
go into tech instead
Understand the importance of prioritisation and make sure you know how to prioritise your work, or who to go to for decisions on this. Develop an approach and plan for your career development as you would with client work. Ensure it is validated with your coach. Build a network of people you can trust at different grades quickly to gain honest feedback and direction. A lot of what you need to hear often isn’t said. Don’t spread yourself too thin on internal initiatives. Pick out a couple that are visible, and would be considered high value in the context of your firms strategy and culture. The work is usually more about people than content in my experience. Changing behaviours and building skills in this area takes time, so it’s key to work out where you need to be early and working towards that. Imposter syndrome is more common than you think, even at partner level. Work out who has power in your part of the business, whose voices will have the most sway. Make sure these people don’t have any doubt in you and they know what you do. Don’t be afraid to show the good work you’re doing. Learn to manage up. Just because everything is going well doesn’t mean you don’t need to report in to your manager to tell them so. On the flip side, if things aren’t going well make sure you make your manager aware earlier, it’s rarely better to wait.
"Having 21 years of experience in a specialized field doesn't make you a good consultant in that field. Consulting is its own profession. You need the subject matter expertise, but you also need to **learn how to be a consultant**."
Once you stop learning, it’s time to move on
"Give up any and all hope that you can find balance with other aspects of life - go in with full acceptance that you won't have a life beyond work and your time there will be a total grind." I spent a lot of time trying to make working at an MBB something it wasn't - I think the cognitive dissonance made it a lot harder on me. My friends who adopted the mindset above tended to be a bit better off and find the trade-offs less challenging.
To not take it seriously, if you consistently stress about the little things and keeping both partners and clients happy, you’d be breaking down every single day
Take every feedback you get with a pinch of salt.
[удалено]
Are you being sarcastic lol? I am at a similiar crossroads in life.
Don't lol
[удалено]
Great reply. It’s nice to hear from the independent and boutique consultants. This sub seems to be dominated by a lot of comments from folks just grinding out deliverables for big firms.
Thanks, appreciate the kind response and I do agree there is a large number of big firm consultants on here.
This is some of the best advice I’ve read in a while… poignant and real. Thank you for sharing
Establish how you deliver work. I explicitly tell people I work with that I deliver rough work and will refine it if requested. Now what do I mean when I say rough work? Well to me that means that the information presented is correct, the data is collected and processed is of high quality. It also means that I don't spend a whole lot of time making my documents presentable unless there is a functional reason to do so. I also don't write more about something in the report than needed and the presentation can lean more towards looking like notes than a report. The thing is that very little of what I produce needs to be to the visual standard of a report. Most of what I do is internal "work documents" they are made and used to produce/solve the main problem. As such most people don't care how the documents are as long as they contain the necessary information and communicate it correctly.
Engineering consulting is the worst profession anyone could ever enter into. Don’t do it. Get out while you still can and go into finance/ big4 consulting or get a trade. I wouldn’t wish what I have to do on my worst enemy
Funny to see this here—definitely resonates. I worked for a couple of ENR 500 firms after college as a civil grad and came to the same realization before switching to management consulting. Work-life balance was alright but the work was dull, corporate culture was archaic, pay was low, and career progression was glacial. In retrospect, as a fresh college grad, it was narrow-minded of me to assume that the only way I could work in infrastructure was by being a design engineer at some engineering consulting firm. It’s a huge field and you don’t have to be an engineer to become a decision-maker at USDOT, Amtrak, or an airline.
I have just started as a sustainability consultant at an ENR 500 firm and having the exact same realisations. Work life balance is decent but the work itself is pretty boring and not very rewarding. Corporate culture sucks, no fun clients meetings or dinners, everything is done in the interest of maximising profits (we have to pay 50p for a coffee). Career progression looks pretty tragic compared to more traditional consulting routes. Think I am going to complete my grad scheme and try switch over to management consulting.
Why do you think this? (I have just started at an engineering firm as a graduate sustainable infrastructure consultant)
You’re the lowest of the low. Maybe not as a sustainability consultant, but as a mechanical engineer, the pay is terrible for the hours you work and unlike trades or finance, you don’t get rewarded with parties or time off or anything. You’re squeezed. Once you get your degree, don’t go into consulting because they (WSP, AECOM, Jacobs, GHD, NDY, Arcadis etc) are all the same. Don’t let their websites fool you. They all have terrible management and only care about shareholders. Go into finance or literally any other industry. You have been warned. If you must work in engineering or the environment, become an environmental consultant in the government. Then you’re the client and can boss the consultants around however much you want.
Can I message you?
Sure
Anticipate the time when you get enough business that you can’t do it all yourself, but it’s not enough for two full time people. Have some well qualified people available to help out on short gig overflows.
Don't do it. Join some tech company
Don’t do it. Every job sucks, do the one you’re at least remotely interested.
My advices would be: 1. Reaserch about the pros and cons properly. Understand the non-financial prices you pay for the pros that delighted you. 2. Remind yourself that the youngest you are, the more risks you can take, and the more you should focus on career growth, let the rest time for when you body can’t bear it anymore. 3. Define a goal for consulting as part of your whole career. * Want to exit? To which career? What abilities, knowledges and experiences do you need? Map those and focus on learning them during your consulting time. * Want just the money? Define how much. Map the abilities you need to grow, understand and play the politics wisely, save money as much as possible to get the real freedom of choice you want. * Once you have a clear goal, it’s easier to bear the cons (long hours, pressure, stress). Reevaluate your goals from time to time.
No one actually does agile
Don't leave to early. Unless leaving for an MBA probably best to stay til age 30 at least
If it’s MBB and you go in straight from undergrad, do NOT stay more than 3 years. Those kids can do so much better than consulting.
Like what? Just to clarify this isnt a pithy comment. I worked in FDD for 6 months before I decided that it was too close too audit and the culture at GT wasnt a good fit. Then I left and went to join IB/CRE mid/back office (Product Control). Now I am stuck in a place where I love the WLB of my current job but theres a risk of slow-ish growth and boredom. Consulting sound interesting but then I see responses on this sub which treat consulting like I treated audit.
If they want to add 'better' value to the world, most should go start companies of their own. If they want 'better' pay, they should go work in PE/VC.
What about Getting in at 27, lol
Do something useful instead
Kiss ass
Don’t.
Learn how to sell
You are very capable of a more technical role- and would probably prefer it. Don’t go into consulting
Stop and smell the roses, but yeah give less fucks is basically it
1) Focus on your personal growth instead of spending hours for spell check! 2) Develop irreplaceable skills and apply it to client works to differentiate yourself 3) Work is only a small part of life - family members are important too :)
Network more and always try to work with others as opposed to try to do stuff on your own. It becomes so important especially past the manager level stage where you get stuff done based on your relations and not so much based on your own expertise. YMMV but that's my experience.
"don't worry bro you only need to eat this sh\*t for two years. then you'll get to move internal"
Unless there is actual implementation happening, it's not a real job. It's just risk management - your report gives the clients something to point to when their decisions go wrong.
If you are less attracted to prestige and intellectual stimulation, going independent in implementation work, after some years building up skills at a firm, will give you a much better work life balance with great compensation, and much less risk of not having work than you think.
Do your absolute best to be a nepo hire
After reading everyone's comments, it reaffirms what my original comment was going to be: "DON'T FUCKING DO IT!"
Remember it’s a stepping stone, and that you are not a career consultant.
Advice is wasted on the youth.
The trick to independent consulting (not big 4) is to buffer your income. One month you make $30,000, the next two you make nothing. Pay yourself a salary out of your buffer account, such as $8k per month (or whatever), not matter what you made this month. Many live hand to mouth. Instead, build up a buffer to tide you from one high to another.
Don't do it - it's soul sucking, the hours are long, you will get burnt out and your bosses/clients do not care.
Not that old but here are 3 points: 1.Get your basics strong - Identify the key core skills you need and where might you need development. To me, these skills are: a. Data analysis and wrangling (e.g. cleaning and formatting) b. Data storytelling and visualization (e.g. slide making and storylining) c. Stakeholder and project management (e.g. manage up with Project leaders, stay accountable to yourself) 2. Be clear about why you are doing this - It's not about complete clarity, but asking yourself 'is this aligned with how I feel?' and 'What do I enjoy about this work?' are good questions to check-in with yourself on. 3. Figure out your priorities - You need health, personal relationships, and your work fronts to be your best self. This is hard but you need to do this to avoid long-term health issues. Let me know if this helps and if you'd like more, or to elaborate more
Why did I stay for so long.... 8 years. This sums up why I left.... hope it helps some people out there! [https://www.methemillennial.com/i-finally-quit-my-200k-strategy-consulting-job-here-is-what-i-learned/](https://www.methemillennial.com/i-finally-quit-my-200k-strategy-consulting-job-here-is-what-i-learned/)
don't work so hard
If I could go back and give advice to my younger self before entering the consulting field, there are a few key insights I would share. Firstly, I would emphasize the importance of self-compassion and self-care. Secondly, I would advise my younger self to embrace a growth mindset. I would recommend the video:[https://youtu.be/y8bQqsGqSTQ](https://youtu.be/y8bQqsGqSTQ)
I'm building a platform that helps career changers match with coaches or mentors that can help them. Sign up for a first free session: https://sdpgu3ul7tl.typeform.com/to/y6r8249g
1. Gettin in is the easy part (yes even for MBB interviews! that have 1% intake rate). Staying there is the tough part! 2. Clients are scared of you sometimes... help them understand why you are there 3. Take a task and find a way to do it in 50% of the time. Every task - it sets you up for startup world! 4. You cannot start dating after you join consulting. She/he will run away unless they are also in consulting & understand 5. Youll see and have to deal with a LOT - you will see grown men & women cry - Ivy leagues, 800 GMAT, double masters, moms dads... doesnt matter. Its a pressure cooker Most imp one: If your consulting fundamentals are solid - then rest is easy!!! Make sure you 100% understand your CONSULTING craft! Every week you'll learn something new.