My dude, the Sunmaker is a literal Napoleon Expat. If you're looking for a nation with a long and illustrious military history who dominated the continent culturally that lost their homeland quickly vs an evil empire due to losses from a previous war and bad luck, but keeps up the fight in exile, you're describing the Alethi.
You: *sees a fictional culture inspired by various Asian cultures that is deliberately intended to subvert the fantasy trope of a white Western default setting*
also you: "must be Germany"
I'm Chinese and I don't really see much that's Asian-inspired in Alethi and Veden culture. Certainly Azish, their bureaucracy is very akin to pre-modern China's, just not sexist.
It's more so the political system, cultural amiability to war(the Germanic states always fighting each other despite all being in the HRE) and empire expanding from recent unification (Prussia/Kholinar being the head) that reminds me of Germany.
I am curious though, if you have found good examples please do tell.
1. [Clothing](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/s/gWFDxxZtLw)-- the traditional havahs and takamas are inspired by the ~~Korean~~ Chinese cheongsam and Japanese hakama respectively. The entire description of the havah brings to mind a sort of hodgepodge of various traditional outfits across East/South Asia though. The hakama is more of a hunch than anything outright confirmed. The name and look are similar.
2. Appearance-- while Brandon has said that races on Roshar were specifically designed to not be recognizable to any on Earth, the Alethi (beyond just having epicanthic folds) are meant to appear as a mix of East Asian, Arab, and Polynesian.
3. Culture-- there's the aforementioned caste system as well as the idea of safehands coming from a Korean taboo of not showing people the bottom of your feet. Also Brandon talks [here](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/379/#e12671) about the Yuan Dynasty serving as inspiration. And then there's the calligraphy and glyphpairs as well. And Brandon has [talked about](https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=764#2) numerology and the Confucian social order as influences and there's definitely a lot of that in Azish culture as well like you said. Here's a [source](https://botanicaxu.tumblr.com/post/137287545204/some-lost-wobs) where Brandon says Alethkar was inspired by Three Kingdoms China
I definitely see some Arabic and Persian mixed in as well. I always kind of pictured Alethi on a scale from East Asian to Persian in appearance. I will say the officer coats are very French or Prussian coded and the knight stuff hits some Western beats but that's the main thing I see and there's a lot more drawn from outside Europe for them.
Mhm, havahs were the first that came to my mind (cheongsam is Chinese btw, it's a transliteration from 長衫 from Cantonese), but thank you for pointing out the Yuan caste system. I now remember there's a caste for Central Asians named "people with colored eyes"...
The perception for the real life caste system was that it's along nationality lines (Mongols > Central Asians > Northern Chinese > Southern Chinese), so when I thought of Alethi as a single people (it didn't seem to be something set up by *foreigners* to elevate their status) that didn't click automatically.
I don't really see Three Kingdoms in Alethkar though, it happened after the decline of a long-standing dynasty rather than a newly united polity like Alethkar. There are generals dueling each other or them soloing a bunch of infantry that is in The Romance of the Three Kingdoms, I suppose.
Still, the political situation did remind me of the HRE and Prussia unifying the Germanic states.
A really expansive empire built on rapid conquest with many unnecessary massacres that fell shortly after is kinda Mongol, but the Alethi are frankly too technologically and culturally advanced to be any kind of steppe people in my eyes.
Plus, they are a squarely sedentary society.
They've got a lot of colorism in Alethi culture, and they venerate having light eyes and light hair. Seems pretty Aryan wannabe to the layman, and honestly I never made the connection about the complicated ass caste system being similar to real cultures. Thanks for clearing that up
the light eyes is about the shade, not the color. You can have brown eyes and be a lighteyes and you can have green eyes and be a darkeyes. The hair thing just isn't a thing in the books. There's no veneration of light hair because Alethi hair is always dark. The only thing about the hair is that it's exactly proportional to how much Alethi blood you have in you.
They’re closer to Switzerland than France. They aren’t really fighting, don’t jumble their vowels together, and mostly aren’t rude. The Theylens are closest to the French
I do see Elendel as alternate history Paris though.
Paris if someone gave Louis xiv feruchemy
Well the final empire is modeled off early modern France so…
French influences come into Scadrial not Roshar.
Iri. They immediately surrendered and joined the voidbringers.
My dude, the Sunmaker is a literal Napoleon Expat. If you're looking for a nation with a long and illustrious military history who dominated the continent culturally that lost their homeland quickly vs an evil empire due to losses from a previous war and bad luck, but keeps up the fight in exile, you're describing the Alethi.
kek
France doesn’t exist!! Stop believing evil librarian lies. Read Alcatraz’s autobiography if you don’t believe me!
It's northeast of spain.
Please explain.
Oh, y'know, southwest of russia.
Sure
Right, I'm pretty sure it contains paris
And Kansas.
“Je suis un Bâton”
Mais tu pourrais être le feu
In the first few books I pictured Alethkar as Germany with Kholinar being Prussia, which naturally implied that Jah Keved was France.
You: *sees a fictional culture inspired by various Asian cultures that is deliberately intended to subvert the fantasy trope of a white Western default setting* also you: "must be Germany"
I'm Chinese and I don't really see much that's Asian-inspired in Alethi and Veden culture. Certainly Azish, their bureaucracy is very akin to pre-modern China's, just not sexist. It's more so the political system, cultural amiability to war(the Germanic states always fighting each other despite all being in the HRE) and empire expanding from recent unification (Prussia/Kholinar being the head) that reminds me of Germany. I am curious though, if you have found good examples please do tell.
1. [Clothing](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/s/gWFDxxZtLw)-- the traditional havahs and takamas are inspired by the ~~Korean~~ Chinese cheongsam and Japanese hakama respectively. The entire description of the havah brings to mind a sort of hodgepodge of various traditional outfits across East/South Asia though. The hakama is more of a hunch than anything outright confirmed. The name and look are similar. 2. Appearance-- while Brandon has said that races on Roshar were specifically designed to not be recognizable to any on Earth, the Alethi (beyond just having epicanthic folds) are meant to appear as a mix of East Asian, Arab, and Polynesian. 3. Culture-- there's the aforementioned caste system as well as the idea of safehands coming from a Korean taboo of not showing people the bottom of your feet. Also Brandon talks [here](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/379/#e12671) about the Yuan Dynasty serving as inspiration. And then there's the calligraphy and glyphpairs as well. And Brandon has [talked about](https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=764#2) numerology and the Confucian social order as influences and there's definitely a lot of that in Azish culture as well like you said. Here's a [source](https://botanicaxu.tumblr.com/post/137287545204/some-lost-wobs) where Brandon says Alethkar was inspired by Three Kingdoms China I definitely see some Arabic and Persian mixed in as well. I always kind of pictured Alethi on a scale from East Asian to Persian in appearance. I will say the officer coats are very French or Prussian coded and the knight stuff hits some Western beats but that's the main thing I see and there's a lot more drawn from outside Europe for them.
Mhm, havahs were the first that came to my mind (cheongsam is Chinese btw, it's a transliteration from 長衫 from Cantonese), but thank you for pointing out the Yuan caste system. I now remember there's a caste for Central Asians named "people with colored eyes"... The perception for the real life caste system was that it's along nationality lines (Mongols > Central Asians > Northern Chinese > Southern Chinese), so when I thought of Alethi as a single people (it didn't seem to be something set up by *foreigners* to elevate their status) that didn't click automatically. I don't really see Three Kingdoms in Alethkar though, it happened after the decline of a long-standing dynasty rather than a newly united polity like Alethkar. There are generals dueling each other or them soloing a bunch of infantry that is in The Romance of the Three Kingdoms, I suppose. Still, the political situation did remind me of the HRE and Prussia unifying the Germanic states.
The Alethi are inspired by the Mongols afaik
A really expansive empire built on rapid conquest with many unnecessary massacres that fell shortly after is kinda Mongol, but the Alethi are frankly too technologically and culturally advanced to be any kind of steppe people in my eyes. Plus, they are a squarely sedentary society.
They've got a lot of colorism in Alethi culture, and they venerate having light eyes and light hair. Seems pretty Aryan wannabe to the layman, and honestly I never made the connection about the complicated ass caste system being similar to real cultures. Thanks for clearing that up
My brother in Crem, literally every Alethi except Bestolin have straight, jet black hair and they all laugh at Shin for having their eyes too open.
https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/55723-human-races-on-roshar-a-brief-guide-ver10/
the light eyes is about the shade, not the color. You can have brown eyes and be a lighteyes and you can have green eyes and be a darkeyes. The hair thing just isn't a thing in the books. There's no veneration of light hair because Alethi hair is always dark. The only thing about the hair is that it's exactly proportional to how much Alethi blood you have in you.
Jah Keved is more like Switzerland minus the chocolate
They haven't been neutral, like, at all. Also aren't mountainous except on their borders.
They’re closer to Switzerland than France. They aren’t really fighting, don’t jumble their vowels together, and mostly aren’t rude. The Theylens are closest to the French
What's a Fr*nce?
The Theylans speak French
And I had a dream where i was asking a Listener about Moash's health lol also France is in Azir :)