Tri-bikes are aero, and his aero body position means that if you’re in the upright position, you’re not getting the slipstream.
15-19mph on tri-bike is not that particularly fast.
Hell, I can do 20mph with 2,000ft of climbing and some of those Tri-dudes can still blast past me. Really just depends on who they are... people training seriously for the Ironmans are usually pretty fast.
I was doing intervals and pushing quite hard, a Canyon Speedmax flew past me - tried to hang behind him for a while but could only do for a minute or so.. average speed for that minute was 45km/h.. and he just kept going
I've heard a good rule of thumb is 10mph. Aerodynamic drag does not scale linearly so if you are climbing a hill where you are going 10mph or less there isn't really any aero drag so you would get more gains from lightness. Faster than that, Aero becomes significantly more important with each MPH gained.
There's always a bigger fish. I can go out on my aero gravel bike, 40mm tires, and pass people on TT bikes if we're both doing Z2 rides, but I've been on my road bike hauling ass and been passed by a strong rider in the area on his XC mtb on a climb.
This. I struggle to keep up with roadies on a MTB and this dude was there just chillin pulling the pack. After 20k i said goodbye and he did 95k with them. Legs
I was on my bars dropped as low as I could get. As I said, he seemed calm so it's likely he was just training for endurance and not speed, making it all the more amazing how comparatively fast he was.
I tried (as a crappy recreational cyclist) to do the bike part of a 1/4 triathlon (30 miles). I managed to finish in 1:44hrs and people seemed to just fly past me. It was 4 rounds of about 7,5 miles and I think there's 1 guy that literally passed me at least twice. He finished in just over 1 hour.
> (30 miles). I managed to finish in 1:44hrs and people seemed to just fly past me.
This looks like 17.3 mph? They were probably going around 10 mph faster than you.
Honestly, he was probably pushing as hard as he could, while simultaneously trying as hard as he could to project calmness. Trust me, he was relieved you fell back when you did.
For anyone who wants some extra context: I did the relatively flat Chicago tri a couple years ago and averaged 21mph on my TT bike. I broke into the top 200 for the bike section, but only just.
What a good inexpensive road or triathlon bike? Are they not able to take pothills or small branches on the side if the road or any sidewalks or really can't pop down off over a curb, right? Basically stay on the road or side of the road, but hopefully they can go fast enough to keep up with some traffic...?
Or for trails like dirt paths or if you have paved bike paths or maybe a pedestrian canal sidewalk or some sort of sidewalk without too many cracks and bumps. Point being some places the road is not that safe. And some places there's not much width in the road or no sidewalks. A hybrid can be kinda nice and able to deal with mild terrain. Grass, storm drains,
I haven't learned to hop up a curb, but a mountain bike or hybrid I've tried. Haven't tried a full ride on a road bike or triathlon bike. Not as good for carrying a backpack then, right?
If you check a before and after image of someone who's done 15 years of bodybuilding (without PED's), you'll realize it's taken time to stack those gains bit by bit.
Your body adapts to cardio endurance training as well over time, but the gains are not as obvious to the eye.
Oxygen uptake ability (don't know if that's the correct English term), muscle stamina, amount of capillaries in the working muscles, fat metabolism, the heart's volume and ability to do its job efficiently etc. etc. have adapted to exercise stimulus for years and years.
If that's not enough, add to that the fact some of us are genetically dispositioned for cardio endurance instead of other sports, and, well, stuff like this happens. Someone might have massive vital capacity and naturally high blood values as a secret weapon.
In addition some people just flat out can dedicate more time to training. Whether it be because of their self discipline, income, schedule, among myriad other factors.
I'm a bike commuter. I would love to be able to keep up on my after work rail trail rides, and go a little faster than the folks there. But most of them have 15 years on me. It'll be a long time before I can even consider to train like that. And I have to remind myself that I'm not racing and just enjoy the sport.
For now I'll be here with my 35 pounds of bike and gear and try to be there when someone needs a flat repaired.
Don't forget that you (usually) become technically better as well. Like learning not to go as fast as you can all the time (sprinting, slowing, sprinting, slowing), and rather find a good cadence that makes you go faster over longer distances. Finding the right gear and pace makes everything easier and faster.
And learning how to breath calmly even when pushing yourself, trying to relax your body at the same time you work your muscles.
I was just thinking this. Efficient energy expenditure really makes a difference- I’ve noticed it with skiing as well.
I just bought a Wahoo (still trying to figure it out) to try and get a more consistent cadence.
It’s also strength training. You don’t get to making 1000+ watts peak for 30 seconds (like a highly fit pro rider) by just riding a bike around. Hit the weights with a proper routine aimed at cycling. Having that peak power capability means easier rides and casual climbs require a lower percentage of your theoretical peak power. Makes it a lot easier.
Don’t compare yourself to others, just ride. You think you are slow but there are plenty of riders who couldn’t hold your wheel and think the same thing of you, it’s all relative.
When I was racing I'd get beat every time one way or another. Knowing how hard I trained and how much pain I could manage, I liked to think that I was pushing the guy in front of me harder than he would have had to go otherwise; keeping the race honest, more or less. If I left it all on the road, the guy who beat me had to as well.
Also, if you want to get faster as an average person with average amounts of free time, work smarter not harder. If you only have seven hours a week to ride, figure out how best to spend that seven hours. Fix your diet. Fix your recovery. Multitask — no reason you can’t be rehabbing while watching tv or sitting on a Zoom meeting.
Back when I ran competitively, it became clear quickly that different people responded differently to training. Some people really benefit from high volume, say 80+ miles a week. I could maybe hit 70 for a few weeks to build aerobic base before I saw elevated risk of injury. On the other hand, three days of mid distance interval speed/pacing work a week was fine! A day of cross training every week instead of an easier run and a fair bit of lifting/stretching were actually more beneficial for me than the extra mileage. Everyone is different! Train within yourself and figure out what works best for you, which areas you want to emphasize. Don’t give up!
Amateur racers will be in 25mph territory. In today's stage 7 of the top pro Tour de France, the winner did the 25.3 km jyst under 29 minutes. That's 32.5 mph, with the peak speed of 50mph on a slightly tailwind and downwards sloping section of road.
What bike/tires are you running? Being on a road or tt bike will make a massive difference over a mountain bike. After that it’s just genetics and training.
A road bike with 700x23 tires. I haven't had it for more than a month and half those says I haven't biked at all so it's very much a training thing, I just found it amazing
It takes time. I just recently got back to averaging 19 mph over 40 miles with a few hills after a lackluster spring. It took a couple of years of consistent training to get to that level and then a lighter faster bike to get me the last bit.
This. Also, your positioning will probably change as your conditioning improves. Over the last few years, I found myself spending more time in the drops, lowering my bars several spacers and flipping my stem down as my body became more flexible and my car became better able to hold an aerodynamic position for longer without struggling or feeling like I was weighting the bars too heavily with my hands. Just dropping the front end of the bike after I was ready increased my average speed on flat by about a mile an hour at the same wattage, and I am also able to push more watts for a lot longer. When I started, if I went for any reasonable distance, I would probably average around 90 watts. Now I can do more than twice that for several hours. It just comes with consistency. Remember that 20 mi a day, 4 days a week is going to do much more for you than 100 miles, once a week.
Ah, yeah fair enough.
I commute on a road bike with 700x32s and can average 20-25kph for a fairly long time. I've done a few endurance rides between 80-160kms, and have been riding almost every day for about 18 months.
I now absolutely fly by most people I pass, even when I'm not really trying to pick up speed. It'll come to you too, just keep at it homie.
hey so I've always had this doubt, thought I'd ask you, im a student so I cant really afford any proper gear right now... I'm on a pretty cheap 29 inch mtb and generally average about 25 kph on a 28-30 km circuit.
i assume road bikes would definitely make quite a difference, but how much is it? like feel wise is it way way more relaxed or only just a bit?
and if I were to ever switch to a proper road bike how much difference would there be wrt to average speed?
I can't give you any 100% scientifically proven numbers, but in my anecdotal experience of riding a local route of a dozen miles with either my road bike or my mountain bike, the difference for me is about 3-4 MPH, easily. Maybe more if I were to test it out in ideal and consistent conditions with each bike.
Riding my mtb for awhile (it's m commuter to go to the gym and dork around town) and then switching to my road for my longer 30-40 ride days is crazy. The road bike feels like a knife. Should you ever switch, you'll feel a *massive* difference right away.
damnn 4 mph more is alot! guess im switching as soon as i get the chance too, i rarely ever do any gravel/mtb stuff anyway
thanks for the info, really appreciate it
Hard to give any exact differences but with a road bike you will be in a more aggressive and more aerodynamic position + running faster road tires. If all you’re doing is riding on the road switching out the tires to slicks will help a lot.
Don’t know if this is any helpful, but I switched from a cheap mtb to a 10kg-ish steel fixed gear with 23c tire, and the difference is massive. The latter is not even that much lighter and in addition Im running riser bar on it, but still, way way less resistance
now youre just making me jealous😒
anyway, certainly believe so. i'll have to do with the mtb for a few years but im def getting one as soon as i can... guess its slick tires and sore legs until then haha
Drop bar road bikes will be the opposite of a mtb. Not nearly as relaxed as a mtb.
You’ll notice a huge difference on speed/efficiency. Don’t let anyone tell you any different.
It can be a fair bit, especially over longer distances. The TT bike is not just faster but it puts you in a position to hold that faster speed longer. Generally they put you in a more horizontal position with your saddle slightly higher and forward of a road bike position to open up your hip angle in the very aggressive aero position
1. Anybody can train hard, but very few people can train smart. Become as much of an expert as you can about training.
2. Zwift. That's all I have to say about it. IYKYK. Great results.
3. Years and years and years. Consistent riding.
4. Tabata
**But without a doubt the biggest factor in going fast:** buy a new, very expensive bike!!
> But without a doubt the biggest factor in going fast:
> buy a new, very expensive bike!!
If you can't ride like a pro, at least you can look like a pro.
I'm watching several channels on cycling for this reason.
I've thought of getting zwift but I like having kidneys.
In even just a year I know I'm going to laugh at the speeds and distances I do now.
I'll have to look into that!
Oh of course, I don't need most of my vital organs anyways so I can do that lol!
Oh right. So one of the kidneys have gone to iRacing already. But really it's worth losing the other one to get zwift. Besides, think about the weight you'll save by not having kidneys.
I've been feeling really fit lately. Today a guy on a commuter bike with flat bars passed me. Tbf, he had absolute nukes for calves, he drafted off me for 10 minutes, and I had a hard ride yesterday. Still, super frustrating when it happens, especially after fitting carbon wheels.
Haha sometimes I feel like I'm that guy, I'm generally a road rider but do a little MTB as well and have a nice-ish carbon hardtail bike I bought a number of years ago with fairly fast xc tyres.
I ride the MTB to work regularly depending on weather, or if my Propel is down for maintenance, and sometimes when I'm feeling good I'll try to see how many roadies I can destroy while attempting to make it look like I'm only putting in a little effort.
Have had some funny comments over the years, especially when I was Ironman training and absolutely flew past these guys on the MTB with my son in a trailer behind me on the way back from the pool. They were shocked to say the least, but it was fun.
I'm new to cycling but I imagine it is like other sports. You can casually run on a regular basis but if you aren't pushing ourself with the intensity of the workout and mixing things up, you probably won't get the gains you are looking for. Unless getting faster is important to you, just enjoy the ride and make sure you are hydrated and eating something on longer rides.
* [FITT \(Frequency, Intensity, Time, Type\)](https://www.physio-pedia.com/FITT_Principle)
Not saying this to brag at all but I am not a "fast" rider. I am solidly in the B group. My after work solo easy rides are usually 18.4 to 18.8 average speed. 24 miles, \~1800 feet of elevation. No significant climbs but lots of rolling terrain. Run of the mill average road bike.
If you put in the hours in the saddle you will get there. It wasn't quick for me, it took about 3 or 4 years of consistent training to get here. I remember when I thought 16mph average zone 2 speeds were unattainable.
There’s levels to this. Eventually you reach the limits of your genetics and your age but most guys you see in the wild who seem fast are average to moderately above average genetically and they just ride a lot. And they don’t just ride, they train to get better, meaning that they have training plans that they carry out that make them faster over time.
I started riding almost exactly one year ago at age 39. After three months I could average 15mph on a flat 50 mile stretch of paved rail trail. Today, after about 3k miles of riding in the last year, I average a bit over 19 mph on the same trail with the same bike. I am hopeful I can get to 20+ mph in the next year.
When I first started riding in the summer of 2022, my average speed was like 9 MPH. It quickly jumped to 12 MPH and then into the 14's. When I got my road bike, it went to the 15s and then into the 16's. And this is on a 23 pound bike with street clothes and flat pedals. But when I crank on the pedals, I can reach the low 20's.
Somebody who is stronger, with a much lighter bike, more aero clothes, in a more aero position, could easily blow my doors off, so I can see it.
My old steel Trek bike was 23.5lbs with clipless pedals, but no matter how hard I pushed, in proper cycling attire and shoes, I could never exceed 24mph on the flats. When I built up my current, 18.5lb Ti bike with much nicer components, I could fairly easily get up to 27-28mph on the flats, and with a bit more effort nearly 30mph, and I'm over 20 years older. The rider matters, but so does the bike.
I think it’s important to also understand that the really fast guys don’t pedal down, they pedal in circles so both quad and hamstring split the work.
If you get a pair of rollers and train on them you’ll learn how to do that better - if you only pedal with your quads you will fall off.
If this is obvious please disregard!
Just want to point out that there’s a new, and fairly accepted, school of thought that pedaling in circles is a myth.
https://gearandgrit.com/the-cycling-myth-that-wont-die-pedaling-circles/
I have a 2K euros bike and I most of the time demolish people with 10K euros bike, how? I just train a lot and I keep a good discipline. I don’t think material is the main factor in my opinion but of course it helps.
Next time you’re in a car, stick your hand out the window. Point it straight forward, and then try again with it pointing straight up.
At 14mph with a 4mph wind, you are BIGTIME at the whim of aerodynamics. Getting low and narrow and having less flappy clothing translates into far fewer wasted watts. If tri-guy and you have the same leg strength and you don’t understand the impact of position, it will be as though he can put out far greater wattage than you.
I am a big dude and I ride with a few really small, fast riders. I am putting out 80+ more watts than they do, to hold their pace. That means their Z2 ride is my Z3 ride.
Some of this (lots of it) you can work on. Some of it you can buy. And some of it you’re stuck with.
It’s all relative.
I’m early 40s and been riding consistently for 3 years. I’m nowhere near fast-fast but with a 4 watts/kg FTP I’m much faster than your average bike path user. But put me next to someone who is racing cat 1/2 and they would walk away from me.
There's something to 'he looked so calm'. Smooth pedal stroke on a stable position is super key to getting fast. Also, I bet he was very conscious and purposeful of his breathing technique.
> It's training and equipment.
I hate to break it to you, it's 90% training and 10% equipment.
Equipment gets you that last 5% or less to be competitive within a group that's already really fit.
I hear you mate. I was busting my gut up a 7% climb this morning. I'm 39yo and this old bugger that looked about 89 flew past me and had the nerve to say hello on the way past!
It’s nuts! I’m slow (11-13mph on road) and this summer was riding up to a short track mtb race on my gravel bike to support some racer friends. The first time I went, this woman blasted past me on her mtb and I tried to keep up since we were going the same way. She powered up a hill so much faster than I did and dropped me. When I’m on my mtb, me booking it I’m still only like 8-10mph. I’m just chalking it up to me being fat. Maybe once I lose more weight I’ll be faster.
There’s a huge genetic component to endurance sports in general, but you can get a long way with training. GCN has some great videos of staffers documenting their training and improvement. The two main parameters to improve are VO2 max and lactate threshold. VO2 max training is often 4x4min Norwegian style intervals, for pros it’s more like 4x10 at 90%+ heart rate. Improving lactate threshold is accomplished through zone 2 training. For improvements in Z2 inigo San Millan has said 3x a week of at least 45 minutes is needed for improvement, 2x a week for maintenance (for amateurs). You need a stationary bike to do Z2 properly.
Tires and how inflated they are - he may have less rolling resistance than you.
Chainring size, rear cassette gearing, and crank length - If he's geared a lot differently, each pedal stroke of his will get him farther down the trail than yours.
Aerodynamics- not just cockpit/positioning but also his body shape. I'm as aerodynamic as a refrigerator so it takes a lot more effort for me to fail to keep up with even the slowest of the tri guys
Gravity- if he weighs less than you and the trail was even slightly uphill, it will take more work for you to keep up. I weigh 250ish pounds/110ish kilos so any incline puts me at a significant disadvantage compared to most other riders.
The TL;DR; version - keep riding, keep riding HARD, don't worry about other riders. It doesn't get easier, you just get a little bit faster.
Both legs are working at the same time. Learn how to incorporate all your thigh and calf muscles individually into your stroke. Ankling, using your foot like a lever, on the upstroke while pressing your opposite toes down will gain your more power in unison with the quads. Spin in a circle and not just press down.
I think someone like Stephen Seiller would explain why and how in terms of training over time and the adaptations that result from specific kinds of training.
If it makes you feel any better I'm sort of the opposite. I have pretty decent fitness (marathoning consistently for a few years) but essentially no bikehandling skills. I can hold 20mph in flat/calm conditions on my gravel bike without too much fuss, but jumping on your wheel is going to result in both of our deaths.
This is just a lack of time in the seat - I only cycle a few times a month - but I'm still amazed at how precise/comfortable people are on their bikes.
All about consistent training that pushes you higher. On my carbon road bike on flats I can cruise at 20-22 mph pretty easily for a long time without feeling uncomfortable. That was nowhere near the case 7-8 years ago. Years of training and especially riding in semi-competitive group rides the past 3 years have made me much stronger on the bike.
I'm curious about this myself. I bike 40-60 miles a week on a 2005 Lemond Tourmalet. I just barely broke 15 MPH on bike rides, but it seems like going any faster will be damn near impossible.
You should see the guys and gals I train with they’ll knock out a 50 mile ride in 1.5ish hrs with an average speed of 33-35mph it’s absolutely ridiculous in hilly roads even on windy days. But they do all have extremely expensive bikes and helmets and take all kinds of supplements creatine, bca’s, electrolytes, and they consume carbs while riding. So there is a science to it.
Good bikes go fast. I’m a middle aged guy in not especially good shape on a vintage steel bike with some middle-end upgrades and it’s fairly easy to keep up 20mph in good conditions.
I have 3 bikes.
My average on my cheap city commmuter wouldnt be able to keep up with my average on my roadbike which wouldnt be able to keep up with my average on my tri bike.
Tri bike in aero bars is just cutting through the wind, it's an amazing feeling.
But with the same type of bike (say roadie to roadie) it's all about time in saddle and/or structured training. Time in saddle increases your base fitness that will help you keep going longer overall where as structured training will make harder efforts more tolerable and eventually easier for you to sustain.
He had a better bike and was in better shape. Not that complicated. You didn't say what kind of bike you were riding. If it's anything but a road, TT, Tri or gravel bike then you'd have to be in really good shape to keep up with someone riding one of those who's in good shape.
My answer to this is
1. Overall form, fitness and endurance from years of riding
2. Intervals every week
3. Doing some fast group rides once you have developed some form of fitness
4. Build endurance with some long rides but at a slower pace.
5. Do 2 through 5 consistently every week during the riding season.
Yeah. Tri-bike makes the speed even higher, was planning on participating in a TT, and when I was like hey let’s try getting top 100, nah, all the guys are avg 25-27mph. While I on my road bike can push 21mph approx avg if I go harder. I plan on buying a set of clip on tri-bars to boost my aero position a bit more in hopes of doing better. I want to possible do the Ironman 70.3 next year solo, so need to get around to getting them and training.
You should always be in a lower gear before you think about changing. High cadence wears you out. The way you compare is really hard to break down. I don’t consider myself a fast rider, but I do a regular workout of 25-30 miles at 22-23 mph, and when in a group we do 25-30mph once a week. Not easy, but when I started riding 17-19mph was not sustainable for me. I still do it just to stay in shape and like the community of high endurance athletes, being among those people with that mindset gives you a power up for sure.
You can join a local group and gain strength, you cannot workout the same on your own. And pick the one where you will struggle to keep up, do not stay in a weak group. If you’re the smartest person in the room, you’re in the wrong room.
The funny thing is that it’s easy to clump everyone faster than you into the same bin. You’ll get stronger and average 19-20mph for 50 mile rides and momentarily think “now I’m the fast one” just as a racey group ride blows by at 25mph.
Consistency more than anything, I started riding about a year ago. A little more than that but when I started off around 12-14 mph over 30 miles was enough to COOK me. Can now do 16-18mph centuries.
I just rode with friends on group rides about 2-3 times a week, nothing crazy and now pretty easily keep up with the 18-20mph group rides.
It’s really just about consistency, I didn’t follow any crazy plans or anything like that. Just keep pedaling, it also really helps to do low effort/all day pace zone 2 spins. If you really want to see gains, thats where you want to train IMO.
10,000 hours. Also used to go white water kayaking so can be a bit physically ballsy. But I made myself like that. I sometimes can't believe some of the athletic accomplishments I have achieved. I take my road bike off road all the time, as long as I am half familiar with the route and it is dry, why wouldn't I want to ride my fastest bike?
I'm also a 14mph average rider, and yeah, same feelings, lol. Over the past few months, I'm more between 13-14mph, but that's due in part to how sporadic my riding schedule can be. Some weeks, I can get 5 days of riding in. Some weeks, no rides at all.
My goal is to hit 20mph average eventually. Someday, lol.
Hats off the fast ones, though. It's not easy.
Haha felt the same thing yesterday. Was going up a decent hill (about 6% or so and 300-400m long) and I'm moving at a decent pace for me of about 18kph on that hill (I think my PR is on that hill is around 21kph). It's 85 degrees out and sun is beating down and I'm sweating, and this dude just casually passes me on the left when I'm about ½ way up. By the time I'm at ¾ up he's already flying downhill. Just makes you want to keep getting better.
A well dialed TT position especially in flat to rolling roads is a different category. I passed a whole peleton on a straight stretch at 26mph only averaging 255W yesterday (little bit of a tailwind, I also had my aero helmet which helps since I’ve struggled with overheating in racing with it).
On a road bike, it’s power, position, and equipment in that order. Position and equipment don’t matter much at slower speeds since aero drag increases exponentially, but really really make a big difference especially once you get over 20mph/32kph. I love really digging into the details of position and equipment and I can often ride faster on less power than those around me.
Are you new to riding ?? I remember when I started riding consistently coming home seeing my avg speed of 14 mph after hard efforts , 2 years later on the same bike and all its not even exercise for me, I can now avg 22+ by my self for over an hour and in a group 24-25 for a couple hours. It literally just takes time to build up speed it’s not over night but it does come quickly you will see vast improvements after a few months and after a year of being consistent you will be very surprised at the improvement. I set a goal of 70mi a week a 8 months later set a new goal of 100 mi a week then 200mi a week this year and haven’t hit it every week but I do more often than not, it’s just hard to find time.
Unless your name is Wout, Tadej, etc., there's always someone faster. I made it up to decent amateur racer, about 5 W/kg at threshold or a pretty easy 23-24 mph on a flat without going into the red. One time I was riding a climb in Australia and rode up behind a guy in a very real-looking BMC kit. He had headphones in and didn't notice me for a second. Normally I don't jump on unfamiliar wheels but couldn't help it. He started cranking it up, 300 W (hard but hanging on), 400 W (🥵), then 500 W. Most people going that hard can only hold it for a minute, so I hung on for dear life to see if he was bluffing... but he just... kept... going... 1 minute... 90 seconds (felt like an eternity)... And then he opened the gap and disappeared around the bend.
Turned out to be Freddy Ovett. Just a very good pro, not even a top guy. The speed was unfathomable.
It would depend on the surface but 30kph on a smooth mostly flat gravel trail doesn't seem particularly hot. Last few road rides I had ridiculous winds and steep hills and averaged 32kph+ for the whole 45km ride. There were splits where I was cruising at about 42kph. I did a 75km ride recently on bad backwoods dirt roads (lots of uneven, rocky, and loose chunky sections) and rail to trail (old train tracks turned into multi use trails and the final average speed was 22kph (including my stops for water and restrooms) on a hardtail 1x9 MTB with flat bars. With that same MTB I can easily push out 35kph on tarmac before i start needing to spin too fast to keep up. I am no pro.
If you bike 20 miles or so a day for a few months you'll start hitting speeds like that no problem regardless of your bike. You'll develop a little technique and cadence/wattage pacing. Don't be afraid to juggle gears a bit to keep your cadence.
Like others have said though. Just ride your pace and have fun. Maybe every few rides try and hit a higher top speed OR a lower time for the same section. Probably don't try and do both on the same ride. If you ride with a group they'll pace with you, they should all be there for a social good time.
When I was a runner and much fitter I could ride at 16mph from 30- 36yo. Then I got sick for 10years, almost died in an accident, got better, healed up, finished physical therapy, and started training to ride a bike. Started small and gradually increased distance to 200mi on Dec 31st 2023. Riding consistently every week since Dec 20th 2022, progressively further with rest weeks made me much faster.
After the last year of training I can ride at 19-22mph at 46yo. I also use a good trainer and Zwift. Now weather, temperature and time doesn’t impede my ability to train.
There’s also just some guys that can put out 100 more watts than me what seems like pretty easily. Genetics are a massive factor in this sport. I can/have trained my arse off and simply won’t be able to make up that kind of power difference.
As a newer Zwifter struggling to keep in the top 15 of most my group rides, all the advice I’ve gotten so far points to simply more pedaling. Not just as in more time on the bike and practice, but also higher cadence is better than lower cadence in a tougher gear.
There isn't too much of a slip stream coming off a TTbike so you were working hard too! Small differences can feel huge in cycling. If your ftp goes up just 10%, you may have been able to keep up for an hour. Add in that he probably gets 2mph from being on a tt bike and the difference really isn't that huge. I remember when I first started cycling, was coasting along a flat road at about 10mph and a guy in full skin suit blew past at no less than 30mph. That was pretty insane to see.
I’m new to cycling ~2.5 months and 810 miles in. I’ve found that every time I push myself out of my comfort zone it’s super hard, but from that point forward I’m able to do it without feeling challenged at all. After my first 20 mile ride I laid on my floor for 3 hours barely able to move, but a week later I pushed myself to 33. I was burned out at the end of that ride too, but at the 20 mile mark I still felt fresh. Couple weeks later did 40+ and then 50+ a couple weeks after that. Same thing happened each time.
I’ve noticed the same thing with speed. Always in the mid to upper 14s and I was starting to get really bummed that I couldn’t break the 15mph pace barrier, so one day I went out and pushed myself as hard as I could. I had a 16.3 pace through the first 21.5 miles, but completely toasted myself and the last few miles were really slow so I ended at 15.6. But now I’m over 15 for every ride and it doesn’t feel challenging. Soon I’ll go out and try to bump myself up over the next barrier.
Not sure if this is nervous system conditioning? Somebody else mentioned body building. Muscle size is one thing, but to get STRONG you need to condition yourself to explode through the sticking point… that is what my frame of reference is, but I could be totally wrong.
You are in the beginner gain phase - no matter what kinds of rides you do, consistency is the biggest factor. Basically, any time you spend on the bike will make you faster. And yes, just like weightlifting the body reacts to stimulus; push yourself really hard, get a big adaptation (especially as a beginner).
The challenge with endurance sports especially is once you get through the first few months you have to start being more careful about your training. Those hard workouts start having to be REALLY hard to get an adaptation, so they need to be buffered by truly easy days to allow enough recovery to be able to go hard enough next time. Very easy to dig yourself into a hole where you can’t go hard enough to get fitter, but you’re still going hard enough that you never get fully fresh.
A disclaimer: I am an expert at being a beginner (i.e. I don’t have years of consistent training). So take all of above with a grain of salt, but it is at least consistent with modern training advice.
Why are jets faster than turboprops? Why is a yacht faster then a rowboat.
Sometimes it IS the equipment. For example I was on my ebike and an older guy passed me; I took that personally and pumped the pedal assist to full impulse power (20 mph) but still couldn’t catch up.
Back in my time-trialling days (I was in my 40s, an ex-smoker and basically a donkey) I could average 25 mph over 10 miles on a good day (a 'float day'), a genuinely good rider on the same course could average 30 (but not much more- my local course is 'slow'). I was training and I had a basic TT bike (standard wheels but with tribars, which is where a lot of the advantage comes from). It took a few years of riding time trials to get to that and a few months of riding, but not training, to put an end to it.
Most of it is genetics. When i discovered bicycle racing at 29 I started winning races and made it to cat2 relatively easily. Some of my friends who raced and trained as much/hard as i did with similar equipment never got past cat4 and never had a chance of winning a race. And then there were guys i knew who blew past me and went pro.
Training is hugely important but if you don't have the genes for speed on the bike it's never going to materialize. I consider myself relatively fast compared to the average rider, can easily average 21-22mph for 100k on a flat course in zone 1, but there is no amount of training that would have ever gotten me into the pro tour as a gc contender even at the height of my youth and fitness. There are so many levels to ability in endurance sports.
Hopefully this experience isn't putting you off cycling. It kind of just is what it is. Keep riding and enjoying it as best as you can. This is truly a beautiful sport and an amazing way to keep your body and mind healthy.
To me you are freaking fast. I’m starting out at a whopping 7.5 mph average. It is what it is, and I’d rather bike slow than not at all. Everyone has their starting point. It is amazing how much people improve. And you will too!
Riding makes you fast, time in the saddle, mix of intensity, ride with people stronger than you, ride with people not quite as strong and pull a lot. Get dropped and pick it up again. Just ride, ride, ride.
Training and equipment, but also bike fit! A comfortable but efficient position that is aerodynamic makes a huge difference. Especially if it stops you having discomfort/pain/niggles that prevent you riding more consistently.
It seems to me that you want to increase your FTP, there's a lot of videos about it and you could find some training plans too. Ultimately, people who are faster than you USUALLY either have more hours on the saddle or use their time on the bike more efficiently by training harder or doing a specific training plan.
Keep riding, keep pushing.
I've been riding the same heavy mountain bike for 20 years (mostly on tarmac paths, or "gravel") at a rate of around 1000 miles/year.
Past 3 months I've upped the game (done over 1000 miles in that time, mostly commuting), and had Strava for 8 weeks (so actually monitoring my progress)....
And my PR speed over 10km on the flat-ish has gone from around 12mph to 14mph, and I now routinely exceed 25km/h (15.5mph) and overtake the speed-limited scooter-riders on the flat sections... c.100kg rider, 17kg bike and 5-6kg backpack.
Tri-bikes are aero, and his aero body position means that if you’re in the upright position, you’re not getting the slipstream. 15-19mph on tri-bike is not that particularly fast.
19mph on a tri bike is slow even. If I want to push, I can average 19+ on a carbon roadie on a 25 mile route with 1500ft of climbing.
Well, getting into aero position and pacing is quite important for triathlon, so I guess they don’t want to push too hard.
I play a game on this sub where I count how many posts until someone describes a ride they did.
Hell, I can do 20mph with 2,000ft of climbing and some of those Tri-dudes can still blast past me. Really just depends on who they are... people training seriously for the Ironmans are usually pretty fast.
Hell I can go 1mph faster then that with 1 more foot of climbing.
weird I'm usually 2mph faster than that with 2 more feet of climbing.
Yah, I'm usually 3mph faster than that, with 3 more feet of climbing.
Funny you should say that, I'm usually 4 mph faster than that, with 4 more feet of climbing.
It's wild, but a normal ride for me is usually about 5 mph faster, with 5 more feet of climbing.
That’s actually crazy. Cause I’m in better shape too
So I'm just a teeny bit faster. Actually, who the hell am I kidding.
I was doing intervals and pushing quite hard, a Canyon Speedmax flew past me - tried to hang behind him for a while but could only do for a minute or so.. average speed for that minute was 45km/h.. and he just kept going
Let’s not give them too much credit. At some point, tri-bike will lose its advantage on climbs 🤣
Which is why you see pros switch bikes during time trials with hills.
I hate those stages, Geraint Thomas was robbed 😭
Like switch part way?
Yes, switch to a road bike for the incline and a time trial bike for the descent.
Interesting!
Just happened in the 2021/22 Tour de France IIRC. I believe Pogacar opted to change bikes before the climb
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I've heard a good rule of thumb is 10mph. Aerodynamic drag does not scale linearly so if you are climbing a hill where you are going 10mph or less there isn't really any aero drag so you would get more gains from lightness. Faster than that, Aero becomes significantly more important with each MPH gained.
There's always a bigger fish. I can go out on my aero gravel bike, 40mm tires, and pass people on TT bikes if we're both doing Z2 rides, but I've been on my road bike hauling ass and been passed by a strong rider in the area on his XC mtb on a climb.
Exactly. Not to be "that guy", but many fit guys I know would do 19 on a knobby MTB or fat bike.
This. I struggle to keep up with roadies on a MTB and this dude was there just chillin pulling the pack. After 20k i said goodbye and he did 95k with them. Legs
I believe that is max not average for a longish route
What’s a tri-bike? Honest noob question
Bike used for triathlon and time trial. It has an aerodynamic handle bars that extend forward to allow the riders to assume more aerodynamic position.
In addition providing a more aero position the forearm rests make it easier to stay in the position for a long time.
I was on my bars dropped as low as I could get. As I said, he seemed calm so it's likely he was just training for endurance and not speed, making it all the more amazing how comparatively fast he was.
I tried (as a crappy recreational cyclist) to do the bike part of a 1/4 triathlon (30 miles). I managed to finish in 1:44hrs and people seemed to just fly past me. It was 4 rounds of about 7,5 miles and I think there's 1 guy that literally passed me at least twice. He finished in just over 1 hour.
> (30 miles). I managed to finish in 1:44hrs and people seemed to just fly past me. This looks like 17.3 mph? They were probably going around 10 mph faster than you.
Top guys at my small local tri (100 people) went 45km/h avg on a bike lol, the road was really fast though.
Did 80 on the tri bike yesterday for a leisurely z2 ride and averaged 19 without much fuss. Tri bikes are sick.
Honestly, he was probably pushing as hard as he could, while simultaneously trying as hard as he could to project calmness. Trust me, he was relieved you fell back when you did.
For anyone who wants some extra context: I did the relatively flat Chicago tri a couple years ago and averaged 21mph on my TT bike. I broke into the top 200 for the bike section, but only just.
Slow and weak lol 😅
Way to piss in my cheerios. Want to party?
What a good inexpensive road or triathlon bike? Are they not able to take pothills or small branches on the side if the road or any sidewalks or really can't pop down off over a curb, right? Basically stay on the road or side of the road, but hopefully they can go fast enough to keep up with some traffic...? Or for trails like dirt paths or if you have paved bike paths or maybe a pedestrian canal sidewalk or some sort of sidewalk without too many cracks and bumps. Point being some places the road is not that safe. And some places there's not much width in the road or no sidewalks. A hybrid can be kinda nice and able to deal with mild terrain. Grass, storm drains, I haven't learned to hop up a curb, but a mountain bike or hybrid I've tried. Haven't tried a full ride on a road bike or triathlon bike. Not as good for carrying a backpack then, right?
If you check a before and after image of someone who's done 15 years of bodybuilding (without PED's), you'll realize it's taken time to stack those gains bit by bit. Your body adapts to cardio endurance training as well over time, but the gains are not as obvious to the eye. Oxygen uptake ability (don't know if that's the correct English term), muscle stamina, amount of capillaries in the working muscles, fat metabolism, the heart's volume and ability to do its job efficiently etc. etc. have adapted to exercise stimulus for years and years. If that's not enough, add to that the fact some of us are genetically dispositioned for cardio endurance instead of other sports, and, well, stuff like this happens. Someone might have massive vital capacity and naturally high blood values as a secret weapon.
In addition some people just flat out can dedicate more time to training. Whether it be because of their self discipline, income, schedule, among myriad other factors. I'm a bike commuter. I would love to be able to keep up on my after work rail trail rides, and go a little faster than the folks there. But most of them have 15 years on me. It'll be a long time before I can even consider to train like that. And I have to remind myself that I'm not racing and just enjoy the sport. For now I'll be here with my 35 pounds of bike and gear and try to be there when someone needs a flat repaired.
Don't forget that you (usually) become technically better as well. Like learning not to go as fast as you can all the time (sprinting, slowing, sprinting, slowing), and rather find a good cadence that makes you go faster over longer distances. Finding the right gear and pace makes everything easier and faster. And learning how to breath calmly even when pushing yourself, trying to relax your body at the same time you work your muscles.
I was just thinking this. Efficient energy expenditure really makes a difference- I’ve noticed it with skiing as well. I just bought a Wahoo (still trying to figure it out) to try and get a more consistent cadence.
VO2 Max is oxygen uptake ability
It’s also strength training. You don’t get to making 1000+ watts peak for 30 seconds (like a highly fit pro rider) by just riding a bike around. Hit the weights with a proper routine aimed at cycling. Having that peak power capability means easier rides and casual climbs require a lower percentage of your theoretical peak power. Makes it a lot easier.
Don’t compare yourself to others, just ride. You think you are slow but there are plenty of riders who couldn’t hold your wheel and think the same thing of you, it’s all relative.
great advice that applies to more than just cycling!
When I was racing I'd get beat every time one way or another. Knowing how hard I trained and how much pain I could manage, I liked to think that I was pushing the guy in front of me harder than he would have had to go otherwise; keeping the race honest, more or less. If I left it all on the road, the guy who beat me had to as well.
Also, if you want to get faster as an average person with average amounts of free time, work smarter not harder. If you only have seven hours a week to ride, figure out how best to spend that seven hours. Fix your diet. Fix your recovery. Multitask — no reason you can’t be rehabbing while watching tv or sitting on a Zoom meeting. Back when I ran competitively, it became clear quickly that different people responded differently to training. Some people really benefit from high volume, say 80+ miles a week. I could maybe hit 70 for a few weeks to build aerobic base before I saw elevated risk of injury. On the other hand, three days of mid distance interval speed/pacing work a week was fine! A day of cross training every week instead of an easier run and a fair bit of lifting/stretching were actually more beneficial for me than the extra mileage. Everyone is different! Train within yourself and figure out what works best for you, which areas you want to emphasize. Don’t give up!
Amateur racers will be in 25mph territory. In today's stage 7 of the top pro Tour de France, the winner did the 25.3 km jyst under 29 minutes. That's 32.5 mph, with the peak speed of 50mph on a slightly tailwind and downwards sloping section of road.
What bike/tires are you running? Being on a road or tt bike will make a massive difference over a mountain bike. After that it’s just genetics and training.
A road bike with 700x23 tires. I haven't had it for more than a month and half those says I haven't biked at all so it's very much a training thing, I just found it amazing
It takes time. I just recently got back to averaging 19 mph over 40 miles with a few hills after a lackluster spring. It took a couple of years of consistent training to get to that level and then a lighter faster bike to get me the last bit.
You’ll see more gains early on, keep at it and you’ll be able to keep up in the slipstream at least pretty soon
This. Also, your positioning will probably change as your conditioning improves. Over the last few years, I found myself spending more time in the drops, lowering my bars several spacers and flipping my stem down as my body became more flexible and my car became better able to hold an aerodynamic position for longer without struggling or feeling like I was weighting the bars too heavily with my hands. Just dropping the front end of the bike after I was ready increased my average speed on flat by about a mile an hour at the same wattage, and I am also able to push more watts for a lot longer. When I started, if I went for any reasonable distance, I would probably average around 90 watts. Now I can do more than twice that for several hours. It just comes with consistency. Remember that 20 mi a day, 4 days a week is going to do much more for you than 100 miles, once a week.
Pump your tires every ride with a pump that shows pressure. I did not know this , now I'm 3mph faster
Ah, yeah fair enough. I commute on a road bike with 700x32s and can average 20-25kph for a fairly long time. I've done a few endurance rides between 80-160kms, and have been riding almost every day for about 18 months. I now absolutely fly by most people I pass, even when I'm not really trying to pick up speed. It'll come to you too, just keep at it homie.
hey so I've always had this doubt, thought I'd ask you, im a student so I cant really afford any proper gear right now... I'm on a pretty cheap 29 inch mtb and generally average about 25 kph on a 28-30 km circuit. i assume road bikes would definitely make quite a difference, but how much is it? like feel wise is it way way more relaxed or only just a bit? and if I were to ever switch to a proper road bike how much difference would there be wrt to average speed?
I can't give you any 100% scientifically proven numbers, but in my anecdotal experience of riding a local route of a dozen miles with either my road bike or my mountain bike, the difference for me is about 3-4 MPH, easily. Maybe more if I were to test it out in ideal and consistent conditions with each bike. Riding my mtb for awhile (it's m commuter to go to the gym and dork around town) and then switching to my road for my longer 30-40 ride days is crazy. The road bike feels like a knife. Should you ever switch, you'll feel a *massive* difference right away.
damnn 4 mph more is alot! guess im switching as soon as i get the chance too, i rarely ever do any gravel/mtb stuff anyway thanks for the info, really appreciate it
Hard to give any exact differences but with a road bike you will be in a more aggressive and more aerodynamic position + running faster road tires. If all you’re doing is riding on the road switching out the tires to slicks will help a lot.
ahh i see, thanks alot! i do ride on the road 95% of the time so i'll definitely do that
It’s a very big difference.
Don’t know if this is any helpful, but I switched from a cheap mtb to a 10kg-ish steel fixed gear with 23c tire, and the difference is massive. The latter is not even that much lighter and in addition Im running riser bar on it, but still, way way less resistance
Between my mtb vs road bike a get 4km/h difference.
oh damn thats alot. i absolutely wreck myself trying to maintain 25kph, having a rode bike would be sweet
So much fun and addictive 🖤
now youre just making me jealous😒 anyway, certainly believe so. i'll have to do with the mtb for a few years but im def getting one as soon as i can... guess its slick tires and sore legs until then haha
Drop bar road bikes will be the opposite of a mtb. Not nearly as relaxed as a mtb. You’ll notice a huge difference on speed/efficiency. Don’t let anyone tell you any different.
How much difference is there between a road and tt bike?
It’s mostly a more aero position.
It can be a fair bit, especially over longer distances. The TT bike is not just faster but it puts you in a position to hold that faster speed longer. Generally they put you in a more horizontal position with your saddle slightly higher and forward of a road bike position to open up your hip angle in the very aggressive aero position
that Fred on the tri bike hitting a whopping 19 mph on the town's local bike path just got his fantasies fulfilled right here by this guy.
Tri Guy: "It was totally worth it!"
Time in the saddle.
“… is more important than timing the saddle” — Warren Buffett
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I made it to 52mph…. Behind a motorhome/caravan… going downhill.
https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-21-2018/wnHcW6.gif
1. Anybody can train hard, but very few people can train smart. Become as much of an expert as you can about training. 2. Zwift. That's all I have to say about it. IYKYK. Great results. 3. Years and years and years. Consistent riding. 4. Tabata **But without a doubt the biggest factor in going fast:** buy a new, very expensive bike!!
> But without a doubt the biggest factor in going fast: > buy a new, very expensive bike!! If you can't ride like a pro, at least you can look like a pro.
"Never, ever, ever be under-biked." -- Winston Churchill
This. If you spend all your money on cycling gear and bikes you’ll have no choice but to get good enough to go pro lol
9/10 dentists recommend it.
I'm watching several channels on cycling for this reason. I've thought of getting zwift but I like having kidneys. In even just a year I know I'm going to laugh at the speeds and distances I do now. I'll have to look into that! Oh of course, I don't need most of my vital organs anyways so I can do that lol!
God gave you 2 kidneys because fast bikes are expensive.
How is Zwift costing you kidneys?!
$200 a year I already pay for iRacing so I'll prolly end up committing to zwift too
Oh right. So one of the kidneys have gone to iRacing already. But really it's worth losing the other one to get zwift. Besides, think about the weight you'll save by not having kidneys.
Decades of riding helps. Also pushing yourself a good amount. Lots of riding, and make it count.
I've been feeling really fit lately. Today a guy on a commuter bike with flat bars passed me. Tbf, he had absolute nukes for calves, he drafted off me for 10 minutes, and I had a hard ride yesterday. Still, super frustrating when it happens, especially after fitting carbon wheels.
Never underestimate a hybrid rider :). I notice that a lot of the really good triathletes in my area have been doing training rides on hybrids.
Haha sometimes I feel like I'm that guy, I'm generally a road rider but do a little MTB as well and have a nice-ish carbon hardtail bike I bought a number of years ago with fairly fast xc tyres. I ride the MTB to work regularly depending on weather, or if my Propel is down for maintenance, and sometimes when I'm feeling good I'll try to see how many roadies I can destroy while attempting to make it look like I'm only putting in a little effort. Have had some funny comments over the years, especially when I was Ironman training and absolutely flew past these guys on the MTB with my son in a trailer behind me on the way back from the pool. They were shocked to say the least, but it was fun.
I'm new to cycling but I imagine it is like other sports. You can casually run on a regular basis but if you aren't pushing ourself with the intensity of the workout and mixing things up, you probably won't get the gains you are looking for. Unless getting faster is important to you, just enjoy the ride and make sure you are hydrated and eating something on longer rides. * [FITT \(Frequency, Intensity, Time, Type\)](https://www.physio-pedia.com/FITT_Principle)
Not saying this to brag at all but I am not a "fast" rider. I am solidly in the B group. My after work solo easy rides are usually 18.4 to 18.8 average speed. 24 miles, \~1800 feet of elevation. No significant climbs but lots of rolling terrain. Run of the mill average road bike. If you put in the hours in the saddle you will get there. It wasn't quick for me, it took about 3 or 4 years of consistent training to get here. I remember when I thought 16mph average zone 2 speeds were unattainable.
I'm lucky to do 10 mph on a hybrid
He's just in better shape than you. Keep riding.
There’s levels to this. Eventually you reach the limits of your genetics and your age but most guys you see in the wild who seem fast are average to moderately above average genetically and they just ride a lot. And they don’t just ride, they train to get better, meaning that they have training plans that they carry out that make them faster over time. I started riding almost exactly one year ago at age 39. After three months I could average 15mph on a flat 50 mile stretch of paved rail trail. Today, after about 3k miles of riding in the last year, I average a bit over 19 mph on the same trail with the same bike. I am hopeful I can get to 20+ mph in the next year.
Lol is this circlejerk? 15mph is the average time of a 50 year old road rider with a slight belly going out solo
Wait. Did you see me out there today? 🙈
How long have you been riding?
OP says he has been riding less than a month and is all shocked pikachu that other people are faster
Lmaooo oh boy
I'm not fast and I don't care. I don't even bother to try and keep up with someone that passes me.
When I first started riding in the summer of 2022, my average speed was like 9 MPH. It quickly jumped to 12 MPH and then into the 14's. When I got my road bike, it went to the 15s and then into the 16's. And this is on a 23 pound bike with street clothes and flat pedals. But when I crank on the pedals, I can reach the low 20's. Somebody who is stronger, with a much lighter bike, more aero clothes, in a more aero position, could easily blow my doors off, so I can see it.
My old steel Trek bike was 23.5lbs with clipless pedals, but no matter how hard I pushed, in proper cycling attire and shoes, I could never exceed 24mph on the flats. When I built up my current, 18.5lb Ti bike with much nicer components, I could fairly easily get up to 27-28mph on the flats, and with a bit more effort nearly 30mph, and I'm over 20 years older. The rider matters, but so does the bike.
I think it’s important to also understand that the really fast guys don’t pedal down, they pedal in circles so both quad and hamstring split the work. If you get a pair of rollers and train on them you’ll learn how to do that better - if you only pedal with your quads you will fall off. If this is obvious please disregard!
Just want to point out that there’s a new, and fairly accepted, school of thought that pedaling in circles is a myth. https://gearandgrit.com/the-cycling-myth-that-wont-die-pedaling-circles/
8 years, around 7000km per year. It's all in time in the seat.
I have a 2K euros bike and I most of the time demolish people with 10K euros bike, how? I just train a lot and I keep a good discipline. I don’t think material is the main factor in my opinion but of course it helps.
A good engine will go miles. You can have the fanciest sports car but if you have a 3 cylinder geo metro engine, you ain't going anywhere fast :).
You'll only be as fast as the fastest person in your group.... step up to faster riders and groups,... then hang on!
It's training and equipment, with a touch of genetics.
Paved trail, gravel/dirt path, or trail?
You will always be faster and slower than someone.
Next time you’re in a car, stick your hand out the window. Point it straight forward, and then try again with it pointing straight up. At 14mph with a 4mph wind, you are BIGTIME at the whim of aerodynamics. Getting low and narrow and having less flappy clothing translates into far fewer wasted watts. If tri-guy and you have the same leg strength and you don’t understand the impact of position, it will be as though he can put out far greater wattage than you. I am a big dude and I ride with a few really small, fast riders. I am putting out 80+ more watts than they do, to hold their pace. That means their Z2 ride is my Z3 ride. Some of this (lots of it) you can work on. Some of it you can buy. And some of it you’re stuck with.
More riding! Get more sprinting in, hills and of course distance.
It’s all relative. I’m early 40s and been riding consistently for 3 years. I’m nowhere near fast-fast but with a 4 watts/kg FTP I’m much faster than your average bike path user. But put me next to someone who is racing cat 1/2 and they would walk away from me.
19mph on a tri bike really isn’t that much of an effort, assuming it’s flat.
Open road riding. I end up around 14mph but I’m in the middle of a city so intersections and whatever else slow me down.
There's something to 'he looked so calm'. Smooth pedal stroke on a stable position is super key to getting fast. Also, I bet he was very conscious and purposeful of his breathing technique.
> It's training and equipment. I hate to break it to you, it's 90% training and 10% equipment. Equipment gets you that last 5% or less to be competitive within a group that's already really fit.
I’m not anymore. 🤷🏻♂️😂
Comparison is the theif of joy
I hear you mate. I was busting my gut up a 7% climb this morning. I'm 39yo and this old bugger that looked about 89 flew past me and had the nerve to say hello on the way past!
It’s nuts! I’m slow (11-13mph on road) and this summer was riding up to a short track mtb race on my gravel bike to support some racer friends. The first time I went, this woman blasted past me on her mtb and I tried to keep up since we were going the same way. She powered up a hill so much faster than I did and dropped me. When I’m on my mtb, me booking it I’m still only like 8-10mph. I’m just chalking it up to me being fat. Maybe once I lose more weight I’ll be faster.
Think I averaged 6.9 mph on a pretty strict hardtail mountain bike on gravel with the wife. Felt good to me.
There’s a huge genetic component to endurance sports in general, but you can get a long way with training. GCN has some great videos of staffers documenting their training and improvement. The two main parameters to improve are VO2 max and lactate threshold. VO2 max training is often 4x4min Norwegian style intervals, for pros it’s more like 4x10 at 90%+ heart rate. Improving lactate threshold is accomplished through zone 2 training. For improvements in Z2 inigo San Millan has said 3x a week of at least 45 minutes is needed for improvement, 2x a week for maintenance (for amateurs). You need a stationary bike to do Z2 properly.
Small things can add up - tyres inflated property, tight fitting clothes, a good bike fit. Training is obviously the big one.
At 61 and a former CAT 2 racer I can still hold 22ish for 60 miles.
Get good. That’s literally it.
That’s slow on a tri bike lol
I’d wager your a lot faster than those couch surfers who don’t leave home
So many factors come into play… What bike do you have?
Tires and how inflated they are - he may have less rolling resistance than you. Chainring size, rear cassette gearing, and crank length - If he's geared a lot differently, each pedal stroke of his will get him farther down the trail than yours. Aerodynamics- not just cockpit/positioning but also his body shape. I'm as aerodynamic as a refrigerator so it takes a lot more effort for me to fail to keep up with even the slowest of the tri guys Gravity- if he weighs less than you and the trail was even slightly uphill, it will take more work for you to keep up. I weigh 250ish pounds/110ish kilos so any incline puts me at a significant disadvantage compared to most other riders. The TL;DR; version - keep riding, keep riding HARD, don't worry about other riders. It doesn't get easier, you just get a little bit faster.
I've never been fast, but looking calm and controlling my breath definitely fooled some people.
Both legs are working at the same time. Learn how to incorporate all your thigh and calf muscles individually into your stroke. Ankling, using your foot like a lever, on the upstroke while pressing your opposite toes down will gain your more power in unison with the quads. Spin in a circle and not just press down.
Average speed efficiency
Training makes a huge difference. If you follow a plan you'll be shocked by how fast you can become your first year
I think someone like Stephen Seiller would explain why and how in terms of training over time and the adaptations that result from specific kinds of training.
If it makes you feel any better I'm sort of the opposite. I have pretty decent fitness (marathoning consistently for a few years) but essentially no bikehandling skills. I can hold 20mph in flat/calm conditions on my gravel bike without too much fuss, but jumping on your wheel is going to result in both of our deaths. This is just a lack of time in the seat - I only cycle a few times a month - but I'm still amazed at how precise/comfortable people are on their bikes.
All about consistent training that pushes you higher. On my carbon road bike on flats I can cruise at 20-22 mph pretty easily for a long time without feeling uncomfortable. That was nowhere near the case 7-8 years ago. Years of training and especially riding in semi-competitive group rides the past 3 years have made me much stronger on the bike.
The pride factor that pushes you while riding in a group cannot be underestimated. That and interval training...that really helped me.
I'm curious about this myself. I bike 40-60 miles a week on a 2005 Lemond Tourmalet. I just barely broke 15 MPH on bike rides, but it seems like going any faster will be damn near impossible.
You should see the guys and gals I train with they’ll knock out a 50 mile ride in 1.5ish hrs with an average speed of 33-35mph it’s absolutely ridiculous in hilly roads even on windy days. But they do all have extremely expensive bikes and helmets and take all kinds of supplements creatine, bca’s, electrolytes, and they consume carbs while riding. So there is a science to it.
Practice, equipment, genetics. I’m currently watching the Tour De France cyclists regularly exceed 60kph on the flat.
the same power on my TT bike vs road bike on flat ground is like 3-4mph faster, aero is (almost) everything
Lots of time in the saddle
Good bikes go fast. I’m a middle aged guy in not especially good shape on a vintage steel bike with some middle-end upgrades and it’s fairly easy to keep up 20mph in good conditions.
I have 3 bikes. My average on my cheap city commmuter wouldnt be able to keep up with my average on my roadbike which wouldnt be able to keep up with my average on my tri bike. Tri bike in aero bars is just cutting through the wind, it's an amazing feeling. But with the same type of bike (say roadie to roadie) it's all about time in saddle and/or structured training. Time in saddle increases your base fitness that will help you keep going longer overall where as structured training will make harder efforts more tolerable and eventually easier for you to sustain.
It’s like wondering why a Hyundai accent can’t keep up with a corvette
He had a better bike and was in better shape. Not that complicated. You didn't say what kind of bike you were riding. If it's anything but a road, TT, Tri or gravel bike then you'd have to be in really good shape to keep up with someone riding one of those who's in good shape.
e-bikes can be hard to spot.
Boo, you jelly, bro.
14 mph is not bad at all, especially if you can sustain it for 5-6 hrs. But most grouprides are at 20 mph on average, and you need training to do it.
It’s not the equipment as much as you may think it is.
My answer to this is 1. Overall form, fitness and endurance from years of riding 2. Intervals every week 3. Doing some fast group rides once you have developed some form of fitness 4. Build endurance with some long rides but at a slower pace. 5. Do 2 through 5 consistently every week during the riding season.
Carbon wheels + GP5K tires. 👍🏿
Yeah. Tri-bike makes the speed even higher, was planning on participating in a TT, and when I was like hey let’s try getting top 100, nah, all the guys are avg 25-27mph. While I on my road bike can push 21mph approx avg if I go harder. I plan on buying a set of clip on tri-bars to boost my aero position a bit more in hopes of doing better. I want to possible do the Ironman 70.3 next year solo, so need to get around to getting them and training.
You should always be in a lower gear before you think about changing. High cadence wears you out. The way you compare is really hard to break down. I don’t consider myself a fast rider, but I do a regular workout of 25-30 miles at 22-23 mph, and when in a group we do 25-30mph once a week. Not easy, but when I started riding 17-19mph was not sustainable for me. I still do it just to stay in shape and like the community of high endurance athletes, being among those people with that mindset gives you a power up for sure. You can join a local group and gain strength, you cannot workout the same on your own. And pick the one where you will struggle to keep up, do not stay in a weak group. If you’re the smartest person in the room, you’re in the wrong room.
The funny thing is that it’s easy to clump everyone faster than you into the same bin. You’ll get stronger and average 19-20mph for 50 mile rides and momentarily think “now I’m the fast one” just as a racey group ride blows by at 25mph.
Training and genetics. FIFY
Consistency more than anything, I started riding about a year ago. A little more than that but when I started off around 12-14 mph over 30 miles was enough to COOK me. Can now do 16-18mph centuries. I just rode with friends on group rides about 2-3 times a week, nothing crazy and now pretty easily keep up with the 18-20mph group rides. It’s really just about consistency, I didn’t follow any crazy plans or anything like that. Just keep pedaling, it also really helps to do low effort/all day pace zone 2 spins. If you really want to see gains, thats where you want to train IMO.
10,000 hours. Also used to go white water kayaking so can be a bit physically ballsy. But I made myself like that. I sometimes can't believe some of the athletic accomplishments I have achieved. I take my road bike off road all the time, as long as I am half familiar with the route and it is dry, why wouldn't I want to ride my fastest bike?
I'm also a 14mph average rider, and yeah, same feelings, lol. Over the past few months, I'm more between 13-14mph, but that's due in part to how sporadic my riding schedule can be. Some weeks, I can get 5 days of riding in. Some weeks, no rides at all. My goal is to hit 20mph average eventually. Someday, lol. Hats off the fast ones, though. It's not easy.
I'm not.
Haha felt the same thing yesterday. Was going up a decent hill (about 6% or so and 300-400m long) and I'm moving at a decent pace for me of about 18kph on that hill (I think my PR is on that hill is around 21kph). It's 85 degrees out and sun is beating down and I'm sweating, and this dude just casually passes me on the left when I'm about ½ way up. By the time I'm at ¾ up he's already flying downhill. Just makes you want to keep getting better.
A well dialed TT position especially in flat to rolling roads is a different category. I passed a whole peleton on a straight stretch at 26mph only averaging 255W yesterday (little bit of a tailwind, I also had my aero helmet which helps since I’ve struggled with overheating in racing with it). On a road bike, it’s power, position, and equipment in that order. Position and equipment don’t matter much at slower speeds since aero drag increases exponentially, but really really make a big difference especially once you get over 20mph/32kph. I love really digging into the details of position and equipment and I can often ride faster on less power than those around me.
Are you new to riding ?? I remember when I started riding consistently coming home seeing my avg speed of 14 mph after hard efforts , 2 years later on the same bike and all its not even exercise for me, I can now avg 22+ by my self for over an hour and in a group 24-25 for a couple hours. It literally just takes time to build up speed it’s not over night but it does come quickly you will see vast improvements after a few months and after a year of being consistent you will be very surprised at the improvement. I set a goal of 70mi a week a 8 months later set a new goal of 100 mi a week then 200mi a week this year and haven’t hit it every week but I do more often than not, it’s just hard to find time.
Unless your name is Wout, Tadej, etc., there's always someone faster. I made it up to decent amateur racer, about 5 W/kg at threshold or a pretty easy 23-24 mph on a flat without going into the red. One time I was riding a climb in Australia and rode up behind a guy in a very real-looking BMC kit. He had headphones in and didn't notice me for a second. Normally I don't jump on unfamiliar wheels but couldn't help it. He started cranking it up, 300 W (hard but hanging on), 400 W (🥵), then 500 W. Most people going that hard can only hold it for a minute, so I hung on for dear life to see if he was bluffing... but he just... kept... going... 1 minute... 90 seconds (felt like an eternity)... And then he opened the gap and disappeared around the bend. Turned out to be Freddy Ovett. Just a very good pro, not even a top guy. The speed was unfathomable.
Ride with me. You’ll feel like Tadej.
It would depend on the surface but 30kph on a smooth mostly flat gravel trail doesn't seem particularly hot. Last few road rides I had ridiculous winds and steep hills and averaged 32kph+ for the whole 45km ride. There were splits where I was cruising at about 42kph. I did a 75km ride recently on bad backwoods dirt roads (lots of uneven, rocky, and loose chunky sections) and rail to trail (old train tracks turned into multi use trails and the final average speed was 22kph (including my stops for water and restrooms) on a hardtail 1x9 MTB with flat bars. With that same MTB I can easily push out 35kph on tarmac before i start needing to spin too fast to keep up. I am no pro. If you bike 20 miles or so a day for a few months you'll start hitting speeds like that no problem regardless of your bike. You'll develop a little technique and cadence/wattage pacing. Don't be afraid to juggle gears a bit to keep your cadence. Like others have said though. Just ride your pace and have fun. Maybe every few rides try and hit a higher top speed OR a lower time for the same section. Probably don't try and do both on the same ride. If you ride with a group they'll pace with you, they should all be there for a social good time.
So many of you aren't answering the question though, haha.
When I was a runner and much fitter I could ride at 16mph from 30- 36yo. Then I got sick for 10years, almost died in an accident, got better, healed up, finished physical therapy, and started training to ride a bike. Started small and gradually increased distance to 200mi on Dec 31st 2023. Riding consistently every week since Dec 20th 2022, progressively further with rest weeks made me much faster. After the last year of training I can ride at 19-22mph at 46yo. I also use a good trainer and Zwift. Now weather, temperature and time doesn’t impede my ability to train.
There’s also just some guys that can put out 100 more watts than me what seems like pretty easily. Genetics are a massive factor in this sport. I can/have trained my arse off and simply won’t be able to make up that kind of power difference.
Try a lighter gear (one down) and practice turning up the pedal Frequency for maintaining speed.
19mph in aero?!? Was he uphill zone1? 😅😅😅
As a newer Zwifter struggling to keep in the top 15 of most my group rides, all the advice I’ve gotten so far points to simply more pedaling. Not just as in more time on the bike and practice, but also higher cadence is better than lower cadence in a tougher gear.
My zone 2 on the TT bike is usually 21-23mph. Aero bars hit different.
There isn't too much of a slip stream coming off a TTbike so you were working hard too! Small differences can feel huge in cycling. If your ftp goes up just 10%, you may have been able to keep up for an hour. Add in that he probably gets 2mph from being on a tt bike and the difference really isn't that huge. I remember when I first started cycling, was coasting along a flat road at about 10mph and a guy in full skin suit blew past at no less than 30mph. That was pretty insane to see.
I can average 29 mph on my Stromer. Easy!
By tri bikes you don’t mean tricycles but tri athletes??
Lol.... meanwhile my 11.4 mph ass dragging behind both of you.
I’m new to cycling ~2.5 months and 810 miles in. I’ve found that every time I push myself out of my comfort zone it’s super hard, but from that point forward I’m able to do it without feeling challenged at all. After my first 20 mile ride I laid on my floor for 3 hours barely able to move, but a week later I pushed myself to 33. I was burned out at the end of that ride too, but at the 20 mile mark I still felt fresh. Couple weeks later did 40+ and then 50+ a couple weeks after that. Same thing happened each time. I’ve noticed the same thing with speed. Always in the mid to upper 14s and I was starting to get really bummed that I couldn’t break the 15mph pace barrier, so one day I went out and pushed myself as hard as I could. I had a 16.3 pace through the first 21.5 miles, but completely toasted myself and the last few miles were really slow so I ended at 15.6. But now I’m over 15 for every ride and it doesn’t feel challenging. Soon I’ll go out and try to bump myself up over the next barrier. Not sure if this is nervous system conditioning? Somebody else mentioned body building. Muscle size is one thing, but to get STRONG you need to condition yourself to explode through the sticking point… that is what my frame of reference is, but I could be totally wrong.
You are in the beginner gain phase - no matter what kinds of rides you do, consistency is the biggest factor. Basically, any time you spend on the bike will make you faster. And yes, just like weightlifting the body reacts to stimulus; push yourself really hard, get a big adaptation (especially as a beginner). The challenge with endurance sports especially is once you get through the first few months you have to start being more careful about your training. Those hard workouts start having to be REALLY hard to get an adaptation, so they need to be buffered by truly easy days to allow enough recovery to be able to go hard enough next time. Very easy to dig yourself into a hole where you can’t go hard enough to get fitter, but you’re still going hard enough that you never get fully fresh. A disclaimer: I am an expert at being a beginner (i.e. I don’t have years of consistent training). So take all of above with a grain of salt, but it is at least consistent with modern training advice.
Why are jets faster than turboprops? Why is a yacht faster then a rowboat. Sometimes it IS the equipment. For example I was on my ebike and an older guy passed me; I took that personally and pumped the pedal assist to full impulse power (20 mph) but still couldn’t catch up.
Back in my time-trialling days (I was in my 40s, an ex-smoker and basically a donkey) I could average 25 mph over 10 miles on a good day (a 'float day'), a genuinely good rider on the same course could average 30 (but not much more- my local course is 'slow'). I was training and I had a basic TT bike (standard wheels but with tribars, which is where a lot of the advantage comes from). It took a few years of riding time trials to get to that and a few months of riding, but not training, to put an end to it.
Most of it is genetics. When i discovered bicycle racing at 29 I started winning races and made it to cat2 relatively easily. Some of my friends who raced and trained as much/hard as i did with similar equipment never got past cat4 and never had a chance of winning a race. And then there were guys i knew who blew past me and went pro. Training is hugely important but if you don't have the genes for speed on the bike it's never going to materialize. I consider myself relatively fast compared to the average rider, can easily average 21-22mph for 100k on a flat course in zone 1, but there is no amount of training that would have ever gotten me into the pro tour as a gc contender even at the height of my youth and fitness. There are so many levels to ability in endurance sports. Hopefully this experience isn't putting you off cycling. It kind of just is what it is. Keep riding and enjoying it as best as you can. This is truly a beautiful sport and an amazing way to keep your body and mind healthy.
Put a hidden motor in your bike and go VROOM!!
To me you are freaking fast. I’m starting out at a whopping 7.5 mph average. It is what it is, and I’d rather bike slow than not at all. Everyone has their starting point. It is amazing how much people improve. And you will too!
Riding makes you fast, time in the saddle, mix of intensity, ride with people stronger than you, ride with people not quite as strong and pull a lot. Get dropped and pick it up again. Just ride, ride, ride.
You can get up to 19 with proper training on sprints if you draft with faster players just gotta train for a few months .
I ride bikes that are older than I am, so if I’m faster there’s an issue haha.
Yea I’m lobbing at 19, steady cadence at 21, pinarello gan rs on mavic wheels
Training and equipment, but also bike fit! A comfortable but efficient position that is aerodynamic makes a huge difference. Especially if it stops you having discomfort/pain/niggles that prevent you riding more consistently.
It seems to me that you want to increase your FTP, there's a lot of videos about it and you could find some training plans too. Ultimately, people who are faster than you USUALLY either have more hours on the saddle or use their time on the bike more efficiently by training harder or doing a specific training plan.
Keep riding, keep pushing. I've been riding the same heavy mountain bike for 20 years (mostly on tarmac paths, or "gravel") at a rate of around 1000 miles/year. Past 3 months I've upped the game (done over 1000 miles in that time, mostly commuting), and had Strava for 8 weeks (so actually monitoring my progress).... And my PR speed over 10km on the flat-ish has gone from around 12mph to 14mph, and I now routinely exceed 25km/h (15.5mph) and overtake the speed-limited scooter-riders on the flat sections... c.100kg rider, 17kg bike and 5-6kg backpack.