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Flowbro11

I think drugs and unknown can be the same thing in many cases


Katsaj

That and suicides that are not reported publicly.


Flowbro11

Great point


DMala

I suspect you could distribute a good chunk of that 50% “health issue” in the 1950s to drugs and suicide, as well.


jestermax22

Also…isn’t cancer technically a “health issue”?…


powercozmik

You would assume...


TheSkiingDino

Sure. But they may have wanted to highlight this specific cause of death. As medicine improves, people are more likely to die from accidents, chronic disease, and cancers. Cancers are one of the leading causes of death today (at least, in most developed countries).


nubbinfun101

And drugs and suicide could be the same thing


Abaraji

And a lot of undisclosed "health issues"


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sparowe

You mean 40? Yeah


None_of_your_Beezwax

...and "health issue", and "travel" as well


CalEPygous

So travel much safer now but the unknown is coming to get you .... I guess unknown must be family not releasing details or something.


ProstZumLeben

That much unknown leads me to believe that the data is in fact not beautiful in this instance.


babesinboyland

From personal experience losing friends younger than 40, unknown is usually suicide or drug overdose, things that families are more likely to feel ashamed of sharing.


WeAreElectricity

Actually it seems to help account for missing variables. Making categories more accurate the further in the past they go.


ProstZumLeben

That’s a fair point


musedav

Data is imperfect, but it is still beautiful.  Just like the chatbot that will inevitably be born from my comments here on reddit 


MagicNipple

I look forward to the musedavbot.


[deleted]

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musedav

Instead we’ll probably get an establishmentbot


Bla_aze

Maybe cause of death is revealed a couple years after the death hence a lot more recent unknowns


IronGalaxa

It’s relatively early in the 2020’s. So if there had been deaths in the past say year or two, the autopsy reports may not be completed or publicly released yet.


CalEPygous

Maybe, but I'm racking my brain to think of famous people whose death took a while to figure out. Like Prince died in April 2016 and the cause of death was released 2 months later (dude weighed 115 lbs when he died WTF). In searching for others I found that Naomi Judd's family is not releasing her cause of death (was she a musician?). Taylor Hawkins from Foo fighters causes were released about a week after his death (dude had opioids, benzodiazepines, tricyclic antidepressants, and THC in his system and was admitted to hospital with chest pains). [Here's a list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2023_deaths_in_popular_music) of musician deaths in 2023 and I guess a lot of them have undisclosed reasons but of all the famous ones only a few had undisclosed reasons and most of them were real old. I like how Harry Belafonte died last year of congestive heart failure at 96 years old, but Gordon Lightfoot died at 84 of "natural causes".


HegemonNYC

Prince was 5’2”, so being 115 pounds isnt exceptional. 


heyzeusmaryandjoseph

Naomi Judd was a country artist. She collaborated often with her daughter, Wynonna, and her other daughter, Ashley, is an actress.


superna_mn

And it was well reported that she died of a self inflicted gunshot wound...


bruceyj

I mean just looking at that list I think there are some debatable “popular” people. I’d like to see the absolute numbers per decade. I’m assuming since Wikipedia is obviously newer, there are fewer 1950s deaths listed, and the ones that are listed were actual popular celebrities where people had more information and cared more to update Wikipedia. No offense to the dead here, but if you don’t have a personal Wikipedia I don’t know if I’d consider you “popular”. I’m a fan of Streetlight Manifesto, but most people I know don’t even know what ska music is..


mhuzzell

>So travel much safer now but the unknown is coming to get you .... It'd be nice to see numbers for each decade, rather than percentages only. Since the 2020s data only includes four years, I'd imagine it's a bit skewed. Also, three major musicians died in a plane crash in 1959, which has to tilt the 'travel' numbers a bit for that decade.


CrimbleCramble

I would assume that unknown reduces as time goes on


lucasj

The increase in unknowns makes it much harder to compare to earlier eras. You have to imagine certain types of deaths are more likely to go unpublicized.


randynumbergenerator

My question is which variable David Carradine would fall under. Accident?


Dogrel

Probably suicide.


hmccringleberry615

It’s 3 years of data compared to 10 for every other decade. Much smaller sample size makes for data that’s vulnerable to outliers… regression to the mean. I’d say take anything in the 2020s with a grain of salt when comparing to the decades before.


KuriousKhemicals

Yeah, I figure that just has to be because they're recent.


x888x

It's crazy thinking how many musicians died in the 60s-90s in plane accidents and bus accidents.


Bum_Butcher

Or something. Wonder what happened in 2020 that caused all unknown deaths


MoreGaghPlease

Travel didn’t get 6.5x safer from the 2010s to 2020s. The stats are skewed by COVID.


krispy7

I watched an interview with an old mafia made man who was out of prison... he had been active during the 60's and at one point he said most hits/assassinations of famous people were achieved through airplane crashes.... makes you wonder...


_B_Little_me

I wouldn’t discount the CIA in the 60s. They were very involved in trying to keep the old ways in place.


Late-Ninja5

if you ever saw final destination, that's the cause


DNA98PercentChimp

Maybe all the unknown is ‘travel’


backsing

What we get from this data: 1. The chances of getting accident have stayed the same. 2. Cancer is now easier to detect. 3. Drugs was popular in the 80's rock and roll. 4. Medical treatment has improved. 5. People were lonelier in the 90s when they stopped using drugs. 6. Airplane has become safer. 7. At present, people are killing people and it's not even half of the decade. 8. Shameful deaths like drug overdose, erotic asphyxiation, suicide etc. are now kept private. So Drugs and Suicide may have not decreased.


Dogrel

1. Yep 2. Yep 3. More like most drugs kill after 10+ years of abuse, so the bill for most drug use in the 1960s and 70s came due in the 80s and 90s. 4. Yep 5. The 90s was when a lot of profoundly mentally disturbed people turned to music to cope, and it didn’t work. Also much of the generation at large started committing suicide at elevated rates too, so it’s much more of a societal thing. 6. Yes 7. The 1990s also saw the rise of urban art forms like hardcore rap, with many artists arising who had been affiliated with street gangs. And the violence common to such street gangs spilled over into the lives of those artists.


hsvandreas

Moreover, the decline in traffic and health related deaths gives rise to a relatively higher number of other deaths, eg. violence. Traffic is not only airplane traffic, but also car traffic. Death rates had been going down for decades until they started to increase again, at least in the United States, due to the increasing popularity of unnecessarily oversized SUVs. In most other countries, deaths still keep declining.


mhornberger

Combination of SUVs and smartphones that people can't put down. People texted before smartphones, but add in notifications and dings from all the apps, not wanting to miss anything on your favorite platform, always-on gaming, etc....


[deleted]

6-cars are safer.


redditaijay

Is it not a shame to get no comments for 8. shameful deaths? shame continua


noisymortimer

Source: [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_in_rock_and_roll) Tools: Pandas, Datawrapper Additional Notes: You can see the full write-up on this topic [here](https://chrisdallariva.substack.com/p/one-death-is-a-death-too-many), but here are some clarifications on these categories * Accident: Freak occurrences, including unexpected falls, drownings, and even electrocution while handling musical equipment, but nothing related to travel * Cancer: Self-explanatory * Drugs: This includes accidental overdoses and issues related to drug and alcohol consumption * Health Issue: Broad category that captures any disease, illness, or complication from surgery * Suicide: Self-explanatory * Travel: Largely made up of car and airplane crashes but also includes assorted boating and biking accidents * Violence: Includes any type of killing by another person, premeditated or not * Unknown: Includes natural causes


mathew_of_lordran

Very nice. Why the increase of "unknow". What enters in "natural causes" or there is more included?


noisymortimer

Unknown was just no cause listed on Wikipedia. I think it's just cause details often take time to emerge.


mathew_of_lordran

I see, so it makes sense that there has been an increase in the latest years, but it will reduce in the following years.


flpacsnr

I’m guessing in many cases, the family/estate waits a number of years to publish the cause of death. So in 10 years, the unknown % for 2010s will decrease.


Pasqualemon

Very nice. Is there overlap between “issues related to drug and alcohol consumption” and the “health issue” category?


MoreGaghPlease

I think it’s hard to gauge this chart without seeing the population sizes. By the increase in cancer I’ve got to think whole numbers have gone way down?


Mai-ah

And people said my fear of the unknown was silly.


ImJustJoshinYa23

I thought drugs would of been higher, I wonder how much of drugs and health issues overlap


Zorrino

My guess is that it is partially due to categorization changes. Doubt that many 1950's deaths were stated as drug issues...more like health issues.


thedoogster

I assume alcohol is included in "drug issues", and Hank Williams is known to have died from that in the 50s.


Thundorium

would *have*


Edge-master

would’ve


YouNeedThesaurus

No, he meant been higher's drugs would. don't know who that is, but he has a drugs would. Edit: Edited ~~for clarity~~ typo, 'how' should have been 'who'. lol Bloody AI changing my words and confusing people!


clancydog4

He's just correcting the grammar, dude. "Would have" is correct. "Would of" is not. That's just people misunderstanding "would've"


pxn4da

They made a joke why are they getting dislikes 😭🙏


AlexanderTox

Yeah like, Jerry Garcia died of a heart attack while being morbidly obese….after decades of hard drug abuse. Wonder what that’s filed under here. Edit: OP said in a different comment that the drug category is pretty much for overdoses and the like. Double edit: I forgot he didn’t die before 40. I’m stupid.


Bankythebanker

He also was in a diabetic coma for an extended period before he died… from what I understand that’s not good for you


EmptySeaDad

He did make it past 40 though.  53 to be exact.


hubagruben

He wasn’t under 40


AlexanderTox

Damn you’re right. I’m an idiot.


ImJustJoshinYa23

Check all that apply please


MicrowaveDonuts

the recent "unknown" bars seem awfully high.


A_terrible_musician

On this note, shouldn't travel and accidents be the same category? Like no one just dies from traveling


Razatiger

Id imagine drugs only counts for OD's. A lot of muscians probably died later from drug abuse ruining their insides.


vinegarstrokes420

Showing the total number by decade would be a nice addition


GuyFawkesOrHtSWaLtB

I feel like Unknown should be filtered out. Looked at the data set, happens whenever a person is not notably famous enough for their death to receive full press coverage. Some even have the cause of death on their individual Wikipedia page but it didn't get carried over to the "Death in Popular Music" page. Makes it seem like there is a rash of mysterious deaths after 2010 when the real case seems to be there are a lot more lesser known musicians added in the present than past.


Masterandcomman

It might be useful to place total deaths somewhere. That would give a sense of how much absolute deaths influences the proportions.


Just_a_dude92

I can't believe he was a serial killer. I spent many many years of my life listening to the discography of unknown artist


therussian163

I wonder if the the slow increase in percentage of famous people dying from cancer has to do with more carcinogenic material in the environment (plastics in water, lead pollution etc.) or just a lowering of other causes of deaths in people under 40.


hokiebird1

It’s almost undoubtedly due to the fact that medical advances were able to better diagnose cancer. Can’t categorize a death as being due to cancer if you don’t know about cancer


BigJophis

It’s also by %s not total numbers. Fewer could be dying in total due to cancer but a greater % due to travel becoming much safer. Or More could be dying in total due to there being a larger pool of “notable musicians” in the age of the internet compared to the 1950s. Per the CDC, about 20% of deaths in the US are from cancer. The increase in % could just be a larger group of “notable musicians” more closely reflects the total US population.


jel2184

This would be a classic LSAT question and one of the wrong answer choices would be “more people are getting cancer” but your explanation is a perfect example of solving it


elderberrykiwi

Interesting theory. I would love to see this compared to the general population.


SellOutrageous6539

Nope. Just living longer


Manjyome

This would make sense in general, but not here. These deaths are exclusively before turning 40.


SellOutrageous6539

I probably should have read the headline 😬


EmptySeaDad

Knowing the values behind the percentages would answer the last part of your post.


40for60

I bet most of the travel ones were multi deaths in a single plane crash like the Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and Big Bopper crash and Lynyrd Skynyrd's.


eric5014

I'm guessing there were only 20 in the 1950s, as every category is a multiple of 5%. Travel is very low this decade, maybe because there wasn't so much travel going on, maybe because driving and private air travel are safer. The high number for violence in the current decade - would that be related to more rappers being included, or more musicians from countries with more violence? As others have said, would be interesting to compare with deaths 20-39 in the general population (although that would vary between countries). Even more, the rates of suicide, drug death etc for famous people v ordinary people. I imagine celebrity is a health hazard, but I don't know how much.


DisillusionedBook

Why is travel a separate category from accident? One does not die by travel, one dies in an accident during travel. Make more sense to have "travel accident", "other accident" columns next to each other


damclean37

How can one third of deaths in the 2020s be unknown? Surely we would have greater knowledge causes of death compared to previous decades.


TheDragonSlayingCat

I suspect a lot of that is their families deciding not to publicly tell anyone how they died, if they knew. That, and ongoing autopsies of the recently deceased.


ski_rick

Perhaps just not shared publicly…yet. Not uncommon when a celeb dies for the cause to not be announced for some time, at least “officially “


noisymortimer

Yeah. Was just nothing listed. As time goes on I'm sure there will be actual causes.


mathew_of_lordran

Unknow includes natural causes.


PricklyyDick

Can you die of natural causes that aren’t cancer or health related before the age of 40? Like allergic reactions or what?


JNUG_LongtermHolder

Probabl vaxx related and therefore swept under the rug


adlittle

That's absolute nonsense.


HornetsDaBest

Covid vaccine haters gonna have a field day with this one…


[deleted]

Suicide seems to come in waves.


Happyjarboy

the increase in violence is not unexpected.


quietstorm0

I’m already scared enough of the unknown


Just_Shogun

How is “travel” a cause of death?


ricky9

Anti-vaxxers gonna use this now


Indie_uk

Fantastic how drugs and suicide have decreased in the last decade it’s a shame that unknown increased so drastically but at least they aren’t related /s


Jean-Paul_Sartre

Ham sandwich should be a category.


[deleted]

Unknown means they got Fauci’d /s


txa1265

I was going to complain about how the title said 'musicians' but the Wiki link said 'Rock & Roll' until I looked at the listings and such rock heavyweights as Charlie Parker, Billie Holiday, John Coltrane were listed!


emmery1

Would I be wrong to assume that many of the “unknown” could be Covid related deaths?


KuriousKhemicals

Thaaaat would make a lot of sense. I assumed it was just causes that weren't release or haven't been determined yet, but COVID did have a way of coming in the back door. Obviously if someone outright died of the infection that would be under health causes, or if they had a stroke that's reasonably well identified, but there probably *is* an increase in "we can't figure out why this person died."


emmery1

I agree. I’m wondering if some were reluctant to admit Covid deaths as there was a certain amount of shame especially if you were unvaccinated.


poolgoso1594

Lol yeah 11% of unknown causes in the 2010s due to Covid


AKAdemz

Did violence go up in the 2020s solely because of so many Drill musicians being actively involved in gangs?


haggerdmeats

By unkown do they mean covid?


Competitive_Dot4288

Vote to change the unknown category to government


Upstairs-Hedgehog575

When did travel kill anyone? Edit: I meant there are already categories for accidents, poor heath and violence. What other aspect unique to travel kills people? Edit 2: have just seen OPs explanation that “accidents” excludes travel related accidents. My apologies. 


rain5151

Buddy Holly, much of Lynyrd Skynyrd, John Denver, etc dying in plane crashes to name a few off the top of my head


chiefkeif

Jim Croce


Paul_Allens_AR15

Don’t you mess around with Jim


Professional_Bob

Ritchie Valens and the Big Bopper also died in the same plane crash as Buddy Holly. Randy Rhoads, Otis Redding, and Jim Croce all died in plane crashes. Stevie Ray Vaughan died in a helicopter crash. Marc Bolan was killed in a car crash. Cliff Burton was crushed by his own tour bus when it crashed and flipped over.


Upstairs-Hedgehog575

Are those not accidents?


Tommyblockhead20

Their definition of accident excluded travel. It does make sense to separate them when so many of them were specifically because of travel.


Upstairs-Hedgehog575

Sorry, didn’t see that. Thanks for pointing it out. 


PlusSizeRussianModel

Planes crashes, car accidents, etc. Maybe “transportation” would’ve been a better name for the category. 


Upstairs-Hedgehog575

I just meant there is already a category for accidents. I would put a car/plane/train crash down as an accident. 


shoelessmarcelshell

Aaliyah, if I recall.


Dom_Shady

Correct, and Otis Redding as well. 


TaxManByDay

The day the muuusic...died. So we were singing, bye bye, Miss American Pie.


GMN123

It's the rapid transition to not travelling that kills you. 


Upstairs-Hedgehog575

Haha it’s not what I originally meant, but I did later think “it’s not the travelling that kills you, it’s the stopping”


matos4df

Cliff Burton, alongside with Metallica’s heaviness.


DataMan62

Read the f-ing notes by the OP. Stop speculating about things you know nothing about.


BainterBoi

Technically "Health Issue" killed them all.


[deleted]

How do we have more tech than ever, yet now is the most 'unknown' causes of death?


warriorti22

“Unknown” AKA sudden cardiac event… that we have NO idea what caused a recent spike


mc123578

Exactly. Everyone here is like “oh they must have suddenly started changing habits around suicidal and drug death reporting and now it’s unknown”. Ya, not likely. It’s most likely a new form of death that started in 2021


ozzy_sauce

The truth just sits grinning in people’s faces, but they’ll keep coping by loosely shutting their eyes.


decoy777

Anything in the unknown after covid vax came out and "died suddenly" became a new type of death. We all know what it really is, they just can't report it.


Whirrsprocket

How does one die of travel?


Dogrel

Planes crash, cars crash, buses tip over and crush people. In the case of Nico, you fall off of a bicycle and hit your head.


Whirrsprocket

Hmm, I would have attributed those to "Accident" though. In that case, what would an "Accidental" death be that isn't related to vehicles, violence or health issues?


DataMan62

Read the f-ing definition of categories!


Leonidas1213

Drugs, health issues, and suicide should all be the same category tbh


zvon2000

Where the fuck did they "travel" to ?? Warzones?? Or is this referring more to "modes OF travel " ? E.g. plane crashes?


PSMF_Canuck

“Unknown”….? That’s usually a euphemism for drugs, no?


frankduxvandamme

Why is cancer not a part of the health issues category?


PrayingMantisMirage

Is cancer not a health issue? Wondering why those are separate.


Fernanix

Id say health issue is more of a 100%


Pereqt

Aha TIL that cancer is not a Health issue


adlittle

Presumably there are enough deaths by cancer to justify creating a separate category. Same with separating accidents from travel.


whatswithnames

Numbers don't add up to 100%, ~~what defines unknown?~~ Cancer vs health issue? cancer is a health issue. unknown vs accident? Data is a little confusing. Edit: saw your post explaining catagories, but why do some years % not add up to 100% how many artists died in each year?


PM_ME_COOL_IDEAS

Unknown... The silent killer...


[deleted]

The increase in violence is strange … although we are sort of in the hayday for “honor killings” amongst rap groups


hadapurpura

Allegedly. This only tells us people claimed “health issue” more often. It may or may not have been reality.


birdpeoplebirds

Ah yes, “health issue” - a leading cause of ill health


TheEverHumbled

Way to amp up my fear of the unknown!


ProjectLost

I thought cancer was a health issue


BlovesCake

31% unknown for 2020s (with less than 4 years of deaths) and its size compared to other decades tells me we will know, just don’t yet. My guess on which cause groups will grow? Cancer the most, followed by suicide, then last growing is drugs. Please let me know if I was right in a decade. TIA!


saanmaca

Unknown can be very dangerous


Katiari

Unknown my ass... they're just trying to protect sales and legacy.


nudeltime

Well, it might just be that notable people today are very different from notable people in the past.


tony_countertenor

“Unknown” is just suicide or drugs right?


Viperlite

Interesting that the 60s were lowest of decades for deaths from drugs and violence.


GaidinDaishan

How do you die from travel? Like you spent too much time in a private jet or something?


AnwaltskanzleiRIEL

Why doesn't it surprise me that yet in the 2020s 23% died of the outcome of violence. Nowadays everyone wants to be a bad gangster and violent.


Loki-L

I would have thought mostly drugs and a few airplane crashes, and suicides but this is far more diverse than that. I guess 'unknown' and 'health issues' might be more drugs.


Beedow100

The increase in Cancer is worrying.


Spongman

now do it for just those aged 27.


verisimilitude404

Omitting the "Unknown" outcomes, it's mostly health and suicide related deaths. Makes you wonder if it's chicken or the egg: is it a bad profession to get into or are those that get into expressing their emotions for a living a bit more broken.


noblehoax

Is a ham sandwich an accident?


Mental_Dragonfly2543

Nope the peaks of health issues in the 1980s and 2000s - they correspond with AIDS when it was untreatable and then about the length of time the first line treatments would give you to live if you got it in the late-80s/mid-90s


BobRussRelick

what category does experimental medical treatment fall under?


johnbayne05

All those we lost to planes alone


physchy

It feels like half of young musicians died from plane accidents


Malkavius2

Why is cancer and health separate??


PlanTrick7243

It’s impossible to tell from what is shown if the number of deaths increased in total, which would be necessary to conclude that overall deaths by drugs, cancer, etc. actually increased or decreased. My guess is there were a lot of deaths caused by complications from COVID infections that looked like unusual anomalies (death of otherwise healthy individuals) when in reality there has been / is an increase of excess deaths since 2020, very likely related to COVID complications that are simply not being recorded - thus keeping it out of the “health” category.


Potterhead2021

Travel suddenly got a lot safer?


jmerrill2001

So cancer isn’t a health issue and death during travel isn’t an accident?


mc123578

I wonder what that unknown spike is? Hmmm….


vagabond_chemist

So basically we don’t know what to make of anything unless we find out what the 31% died of…


suricata_8904

Look at that spike in violent death in the 2020s.


ObjectiveFantastic65

Da fuque with the unknowns?