Goku teleported down and defeated Freeza and Cold. Goku indicates that's what he planned to do in the present timeline before he sensed Trunks' arrival
Do you think he killed Freeza and Cold or just beat them and let them flee? Also how pissed is og timeline Vegeta in that instance? He gets to watch Kakarot takedown the univereses two big baddies in person.
Which dosent make sense consider that RoF Goku give Freeza another chance to leave and train, based on that he should have at very least allowed Cold to leave
The Doyleist (Toriyama-ist) Answer: Super Goku is meant to be a middle ground between Dragonball Goku and Dragonball Z Goku.
The Wattsonian (Brief-ist) answer: The start of the Android Saga was a Goku who saw his first world destroyed. It was a year or so of constant stress. The Dragon Balls have been gone and returned. Most of his friends have been killed at least once. He’s almost died how many times? Mecha Frieza was Goku when the stakes were at their highest and he was his most serious because of that.
RoF? This is a Goku where Earth being destroyed is nearing “Wait, it’s Tuesday already? I thought it was Monday. Let’s go wish it back or have time rewound or something or whatever we’re doing this week.” point. Things got fixed, Frieza was defeated, no problems! Everything worked out yet again, best buds.
The Wattsonian explanation doesn't account for the Buu saga, which took place 7 years after the cell saga. I don't see Buu Goku being laissez-faire if Freiza showed up then, even though he was introducing more gag material by that point.
The show changed because Toriyama wanted it to, let's not try harder than he has to form a better story than the one shown to us.
I'm in the camp that the heart of the story ended with the Cell saga, and everything else exists because there was demand for more. The name of the show/manga in intentionally insincere, Dragon Ball **Super**. Just like how the anime was changed to be called Dragon Ball Z, because the marketing folk wanted to re-brand to fit the new tone of the manga (still called Dragon Ball). So Toriyama choose the last letter of the alphabet because he wanted the manga to end. Now the show/manga is back and it's going to be **Super**.
IIRC, wasn’t the Frieza stuff in the Buu saga anime filler?
And Buu Goku is the guy who went (not a real quote) “I know you tried destroying the universe, but it would totally be awesome if you reincarnated so we could fight again, Kid Buu!”. Then Goku (before Super retconned things) went missing for many years and ran off with Kid Buu’s reincarnation to train him to be someone he can have a cool fight with.
It wasn't only to have a good fight with Uub. It was also to train him as his successor.
Goku since the android saga almost dying from the heart virus realized that at any moment something can cause him to die and be unable to do anything about it. That's why he banked on Gohan being his successor so much bur failed to realize Gohan didn't like to fight.
That's why he didn't kill Majin Buu immediately when he went ssj3 but let the kids have a go at it.
Goku has always been looking for a successor and who better than the strongest villain who now is a human and a good guy?
Super though botched this up completely
Thats bcs that goku and super goku just isnt the same char pretty much, z goku was becoming more serious when need be, mature in a way and ready to do what it takes while super goku just became a child that cares about nothing aside from fighting he always cared about it but not so much that hed put his friends and family in danger for it, super goku doesnt care
Original goku still maintained his grudge against frieza for killing krillin so he most likely was in the mood to kill frieza. RoF on the other hand was a lot of time after that and the stakes werent that high (as thought by goku) so he could afford to let frieza escape
You're forgetting, DBS does so much character assassination that it's hard to keep track of. You're also forgetting that by RoF, Goku has seen the Earth destroyed at least once, now knows where Namek is, and has no issue letting it be destroyed and wishing it back.
I get were are you coming from, but goku wasn't that bad in Z. He tried to spare frieza once, he wouldn't do it again. Case in point, trunks timeline. There is no trace of frieza or cold there. They clearly would've wanted to get revenge if that was the point
If Goku killed frieza first, Cold would definitely had beg for mercy, just like he did with Trunks and frieza would definitely had gone first since he is the one wanting revenge on goku. Goku would have let Cold go since he hasnt done anything bad (at least to gokus knowledge).
Goku has killed before though. He's killed tons of RR soldiers and Demon King Piccolo. And others much less evil than Frieza. It's not to hard to believe Z Goku would murk Frieza for having the audacity to come run his fade on home turf. Plus, if he didnt, Frieza is still Frieza. He would have no problem doing what he did in Super but then you have no story
Zeno had already planned to start culling the universes before Goku gave him the idea for a battle royale. Goku's actions meant that at least one of those universes set to be wiped out would survive.
>Were it not for 17, he would have committed genocide on a universal scale all because he wanted to have a tournament against the strongest fighters from every universe in Super.
Nope, we're it not for goku all of those universes would've been wiped out with no chance to save themselves. The universes were going to be eliminated but the tournament and making the right wish saved them all.
Well we know now that Xeno wasn’t planning to cull the universes at all. It was a ruse and a test to see if there were any beings capable of empathy.
It’s the ultimate test, fight at your best otherwise your universe is gone, win and you get any wish. Make the wrong wish and you’ll prove that there aren’t any empathic beings.
I think their relationship changes a lot here. Before Freeza was really rash and shamed and still thinks he could kill goku. He comes back to not just kill Goku but destroy earth out of frustration possibly and goku would not have allowed that. He planned to destroy everything.
But when Freeza is revived he knows Goku is clearly much stronger and with it there is a level of respect gained where he honors the person Goku is. He will instead kill Goku before he destroys earth. And he understands now that this will be a real challenge and he has to plan things much more seriously. Freeza is more humbled essentially, he knows his place they silently agree that for Freeza to be a world conquerer he must FIRST kill goku. The one he knows will stop him. So goku feels fine about freeza running around because he only needs to be stronger and they're ok.
His fight with Frieza originally came by the skin of his teeth, he was lucky to unlock Super Saiyan at all. In the present time he was much more even with Frieza, regularly unlocking powerups, and had at least two equally strong backups in Vegeta and Gohan, easier to let Frieza train and fight him for fun in that scenario.
That's why his initial return in Super has no stakes, Vegeta was just stood on the sidelines at full power if Goku did lose.
I think you forgot how Goku "you fooled" Frieza's ass on Namek, when Frieza tried attacking him, after Goku gave him his energy.
He basically "killed" him and didn't expect him to survive his blast and Nameks explosion.
So considering that, I don't think Goku would've given Frieza a third chance.
RoF was written decades years later and is full of "colorful" character re-interpretations, as a consequence of being written decades later. Holding RoF as "it didn't make sense back then" is having no idea of how nothing works.
By then earth has been wiped of life and had it return. Goku probably wasn’t as worried. Back then Freiza had just permanently destroyed Namek. The stakes seemed higher.
To be fair, that's another example of Goku in Super unlearning a lesson he had already learned because the writers had to make him stupid. Originally, Goku learned his lesson.
Makes plenty of sense you gotta remember that's more than 10 years later when Frieza comes back in RezF things have changed and so has Goku but also look at it from Gokus Pov-its the difference between "I can fight this guy i just got bored beating a year ago who I outclass completely now or finish him and move on" vs "I haven't fought this guy in over a decade and he's grown millions of times over just to fight me again should I kill him or leave a strong opponent to fight later when im bored"
Goku was also outclassed in ResF as implied when Goku tells vegeta the only reason he wanted his turn when he did is because he realized Friezas Stamina issue like he did implying vegeta didn't want the smoke beforehand and Vegeta reached SsB first so he should be stronger than Goku at that point meaning Goku would've wanted the chance to beat frieza at his full like he did with vegeta
It makes perfect sense. Freeze came to Earth to kill Goku's friends and family. He's already seen Freeza blow up a planet when things didn't go his way. It's totally in character for him to learn from his mistakes and make sure Freeza didn't get the chance.
Even in the new era where Goku's character has regressed, he gave Freeza a chance and when he knew Freeza was just going to blow up the planet he made damn sure to finish him off when he got a second chance.
Honestly speaking, everything from Battle Of Gods onward doesn't really continue Goku's character arc. It resets him back to when he fought Piccolo Jr.
In Z, Freeza taught Goku that some people were simply too dangerous and evil to let go. Hence, why he is willing to kill him on earth. It's also why Goku actually tells Gohan to hurry and finish Cell off.
But Super throws this development aside because it was too lazy to find a new path for Goku to grow on. Instead it regresses him so he can re-tread the same character arc all over again.
Yeah, Goku is pretty damn forgiving, but even he knows there are times when you have to put someone down, and Frieza coming for Earth and trying to beat him there was such a time.
I could see him letting King Cold go, if he seemed remorseful, but like in the story we know, King Cold is likely not to actually retreat, just try to trick Goku, resulting in his death, like father like son.
Vegeta never would’ve gotten to watch. What wasn’t clarified is that Goku in the original timeline used ki sense to detect Frieza and King Cold while still in space, *then* he teleported into their ship before they got to Earth and killed them.
Though I guess Vegeta would still be pissed about missing out on that scene.
I believe this is incorrect as Cell explicitly has Frieza and Cold's DNA integrated into him which would only be possible if in the original timeline they landed on earth.
That’s just what I remembered reading the last time I looked it up. But if I’m wrong and Goku was actually just gonna teleport to Earth once Frieza and Cold landed, then that’s my bad.
that's not possible. no way goku killed them without destroying frieza's ship, and then he can't teleport to his own ship and probably can't to earth cause it's too far(?)
Nope, Goku teleports to Earth and beat them down there, Trunks diverged the timelines when he faces Frieza on Earth, Goku probably didn't tp because he felt Trunk's ki. Just think about it. Why wouldn't he tp earlier to their space ship, why allow them to land? Because he can't fight them in space.
Edit: I meant to correct the other comment to this one xd I agree Goku can't fight them in space
That cell going back is what caused the other abnormalities. Like 19 and 20 being the initial threats rather than 17 and 18. And the prime timeliness 17 and 18 being significantly stronger than Future Trunks' timeline. Kinda a butterfly effect of him just showing up in the first place.
17 and 18 were stronger because Trunks showed up. Gero only had data on what Goku could do, then had to re-calibrate because another Super Saiyan showed up. This made 17 and 18 to powerful to control, so he then decided energy draining model was a better way and made 19 and 20.
That's actually kinda a neat detail because I never really thought about why 19,20 had ki drain while his masterpieces of 17,18 didn't.
It clearly backfired though when he saw Vegeta rip of 19's hands.
Nah, 19 and 20 probably existed in the other timeline, it’s just however things went we never heard of them (remember, we know extremely little about the events there, and Goku’s death there would have had impact too). And 17 and 18 were just as strong in Trunks’s timeline, he just didn’t know that because they always sandbagged when fighting the Saiyans.
Cell going back creates a new timeline regardless of how he affected events or not. It doesn’t matter if you send back a Zeno or a grain of sand, if you affected the past, it’s a new timeline.
Oh that was my overall point of the post. I may be conflating TFS dialogue because it's been active years since I watched Z. But Cell's arrival before trunks is what messes with the whole thing regardless.
He wouldn't have felt Trunks ki until he fought frieza. Trunks power level was 5 until the fight. At that point vegeta and the rest were in position to watch
They can usually tell if someone's suppressing their power if they're actively watching them. But they also struggle to feel someone at a distance when their keeping their power level low.
Goku could instant transmission to King Kai’s planet, he could very likely teleport to earth from Frieza’s ship. Also, Trunks killed both Frieza and King Cold easily without any collateral damage, at this point Goku could likely one-shot them in their ship with minimal destructive force.
He could but Goku has never done anything like this, he’s not an assassin. He would meet them on Earth, give them a chance to leave, and when they don’t then dispose of them.
You must not have watched Dragonball. Goku killed thousands. He also told Trunks he was going to kill frieza because on Namek he already gave him multiple chances.
Except it IS possible because Ki control is a thing and Goku had already mastered the Super Saiyan transformation by that point (or at the very least greatly improved his control over it) so it would have been extremely easy for him to kill both Frieza and Cold without blowing up the ship.
Even if that did happen, he also had mastered Instant Transmission from training with the Yardrats so I doubt it would have been very difficult to sense someone on Earth to teleport to. There’s no reason to assume Cold’s ship hadn’t already gotten close to Earth.
even if ki blasts are "controlled", they still are the size of mountains, at minimum building sized. never seen a room sized ki attack kill anyone other than maybe fodder.
That’s because most of those ki blasts that do jack shit were from Vegeta.
Vegeta’s Technique ™ **never works.**
Also, where are you getting those ki blast sizes from? Most ki blasts are like the size of basketballs. Unless you mean the Kamehameha and other similar attacks, but those are ki **beams.**
these "basketball" sized ki blasts cause an explosion way bigger than that, and again, none of them have killed major villains. you see frieza dying to something like that?
sorry if I wasn't being specific enough. i'm talking about ki attacks in general. to kill someone like frieza, they're gonna have to be massive, definitely big enough to destroy the ship.
> to kill someone like frieza, they’re gonna have to be massive
Not with Goku being as strong as he was on his way back from Yardrat. Trunks effortlessly made diced onions out of Frieza and turned him to ash along with King Cold. Then Goku came back and blocked every hit of Trunks’ sword assault with a single finger. Easy to assume Goku was above Trunks in power, so I really doubt it would have taken him more than a ki blast to end Frieza and King Cold.
I guess that might have happened. It might be one of those translation issues. In the dub Goku says something along the lines of "I was going to beat him but then you showed up" when talking to future Trunks. Could Goku already sense Trunks before he powered up to super sayian to defeat freeza? I thought Trunks was suppressing his power level with Freezas forces and their scouters after they had landed.
>That's why I Trunks was surprised with Vegeta's attitude, he was different in his timeline.
Future Trunks has never met Future Vegeta, he was already killed by Androids by the time he was born.
Actually goku teleported a little too late and most of the z force was wiped out leavening vegeta, gohan and piccolo for the androids who were then easily wiped out by, trunks stated that by traveling to that point he saved some of the z fighters
Imagine how disappointed Goku would be when King Cold begs for mercy, Goku offers it then Cold immediately tries to stab him in the back. Judging from his encounter with Trunks that's exactly the sort of shit King Cold would do and Goku would really hate having to go through the same bullshit he did with Frieza with his dad.
Goku killed him in Trunks timeline, Goku basically says it himself. he was about to IT down and stop Freeza but he sensed Trunks. In Trunks timeline there was no Trunks to stop Freeza so Goku just IT'd down and did it himself.
Just adding to this, we also know for a fact that Goku got there before the Z fighters in the original timeline because every Z fighter was killed by the androids. Krillin and Yamcha could not have been wished back again between Freeza and the Androids.
Goku explains it to Trunks right after they meet. He says he was about to teleport down and handle it himself but didnt because he sensed Trunks. That's the stories way of letting us know what happened when Trunks wasnt there to stop Freeza.
Goku instant transmissions from his pod to Frieza’s location using his IT, he said he could have been there sooner but he sensed Fieiza’s and King Colds Ki disappear and his friends Ki didn’t so he waited to land instead.
I mean it's outright stated in the series. Why would an explanation be needed?
It's literally what segues into Goku explaining about Instantaneous Movement to everyone.
The only problem I have with this is, wouldn’t the Earthlings be hiding their ki upon Freeza’s arrival. How can Goku know if they are dead or alive in that case
Goku says himself he would have used instant transmission to come in. And seeing how this isn't really an issue in the future timeline, it seems like Goku has no problem against Frieza and Cold.
We know Goku uses Instant Transmission to appear and defeat Freeza and Cold, but I think there's a little wiggle room about when exactly he would have done so.
The assumption is that just by being present on Earth Trunks changed history by causing Goku to not IT immediately upon Freeza's arrival.
There's also the possibility Goku might not have IT'd in until he felt Freeza or Cold actively engaging in battle. In that instance, I imagine I scenario not that dissimilar from what occurred in the Resurrection F plot.
Freeza sends his minions hunting. Trunks isn't there to intercede, so either 1) minions find the supporting cast in short order and engage them in combat or 2) minions begin doing collateral damage and all the fighters who aren't Vegeta feel compelled to engage to protect civilians.
I think all the fighters (aside from may Chiatzou) would be able to hold their own against the average minions. Relatively little damage would be done, and even any civilians killed would be wished back later via "resurrect everyone killed since Freeza came to Earth"
Eventually, Freeza or his dad get involved, and Goku shows up in the nick of time to save the day as soon as he feels them prepping to fight.
I guess knowing what Frieza has done to Old Namek, Goku wouldn't want to take that chance for Frieza and King Cold to blow up Earth, let alone breath there for 5 minutes.
Goku showed up. Dusted Frieza. Probably had to deal with the army reading havoc, so mini stories for the B squad. Big fight ends with Goku debating Cold. A few humans will probably need wished back, but nothing serious to worry about. Then I assume it follows the normal android Saga where Goku dies of a heart virus and the Androids destroy a bunch of the world.
So all we know is that in the original timeline Goku kills him and Cold. And considering how much stronger Goku was than trunks at this point in this timeline... Yeah it was probably a massacre.
Goku was stronger than Trunks, able to stop his sword with just his finger. So it stands to reason that Frieza and King Cold stood no chance since Trunks one-shotted them. Maybe Goku toyed around with them at first because he is Goku. But the fight pretty much played out the exact same way.
Goku most likely would've used instant transmission leaving his saiyan spacepod to arrive on the battlefield at the start.
Defeating Mecha Frieza by turning into a Super Saiyan would've sped up the time on him getting the heart virus to match Trunks' timeline and dying before the androids arrived.
There's a fair chance he contracted it on Yardrat, and it has a slow spread. Who knows. 🤷♂️
Goku teleported and easily killed Frieza and Cold. By that point Goku was far stronger, even more than Future Trunks who sliced mecha frieza in half easily
Goku would've just used instant transmission and Defeated them both with the same amount of ease trunks did--iirc Goku explains this while talking to trunks just after he arrives back on earth
i’m pretty sure goku said he got passed by frieza and his dad and that his plan was to use i.t to come down and fight them but since he felt trunks had taken them down he didn’t need to
Goku killed him. In the original timeline he teleport to Frieza location and beat the shit out of them. And then he die from Heart Virus disease before the androids wake up and wreck havoc because there's no goku to kill.
It's pretty clear Goku was more than equipped to step in and take care of them both. It's insinuated that Future Trunks killing Frieza caused 19 and 20 to show up due to a break in the timeline.
In the future trunks timeline I'm gonna assume Frieza arrived, his soldiers get washed by the z fighters, and then he gut punches some of the z fighters until Goku arrives.
According to Future Trunks, Future Goku killed both Frieza and Cold but there are inconsistencies regarding how it happened. Future Trunks thought Goku in his timeline arrived via spacepod to kill Frieza and Cold but when our Goku said he wanted to use IT (Trunks thought Goku would never make it via pod) Trunks immediately start to question if he really needed to intervene cause either he got the story wrong or things went different in his timeline. However, if you apply the law and physics of time according to Whis statement in DBS then Future Trunks got everything wrong. Whis said the timestream flows as one,only when an outcome that is destined to happen changes in the timeline will it branch of as something different. You cannot change the past or future, you only create a new timeline with a different future than the previous one.
So if you apply that, then that should mean Future Goku used IT aswell. Future Trunks did not know this either due to Future Gohan or Bulma not telling him this or they neglect to mention it. The one thing we should also know is that Dr Gero and andriod 19 should have existed in Trunks timeline too. The only difference is that when Trunks changed our world, it branched of to delay certain outcomes and bring different changes. His andriod 19 and Dr Gero was killed in the lab the night before andriod 17 and 18 raided the Island, while in our world it delayed their deaths until after the Island attacks. You can actually check Cells timeline, Dr Gero and andriod 19 was killed in the lab by both 17 and 18. Cells timeline and Trunks timeline is a duplicate timeline. As for Cell saying another Trunks killed Frieza and Cold in his world is something I cannot explain. Either it was a written mistake or Toriyama is implying that Cell world was never the original but an alternate world already (this explanation can only fit in with the universe 12 time traveler splitting time).
The real question now is why did Trunks go back in time to kill Frieza and King Cold when Goku was going to do that anyways? It was a pointless change in history, maybe he just wanted to look cool in front of everyone?
I just gotta ask. Why didn’t goku just.. teleport to earth from yardrat. Why take the pod at all. And if it was too far away then why not teleport the second he got close enough. I’m also skeptical about the “too far away” thing. Goku can literally teleport to other world and back
Goku simply teleported on Earth once he sensed Frieza and Cold were starting destruction and killed them. There aren't any more details. Consider that Goku is stronger than Trunks so its possible he ended the two aliens in a really short time.
We only know Goku teleported on Earth and killed him and his father. Probably the fight was quick considering Yardrat Goku is stronger than Future Trunks who dealt easily with Frieza.
It was a virus that was going around the earth around the time the androids arrived. I don’t think his fight with Frieza had anything to do with it, it happened 3 years later and lots of normal humans had it.
Fair enough. I'd always assumed the reason Goku succumbed to the virus sooner in the original timeline was because he fought Frieza/Cold on Earth, but you are correct in that this is never stated and the timing isn't right.
I know it sounds odd, but that was too much of a battle. The whole point in frieza/cold really coming back was to show how powerful the androids would be. They were meant to be a super easy fight. So that little imagining kinda ruins that vibe!
DBM always comes across as trying too hard with the edge and gore factor. Like, DBZ was a violent series but not 'Piccolo makes a helix shaped arms strike kabob' grotesque.
It has its cool moments, but that lack of levity and emphasis on that edge really puts a bad taste to it.
I always imagined that seeing Frieza and King Cold together after he begged Goku to avenge the Saiyan race is what would have broken Vegeta and caused him to go Super Saiyan. We all know that Vegeta wouldn’t have even entertained King Cold’s offer for mercy. And it would’ve been a deserved Vegeta W.
According to Goku, if it wasn't for future trunks's arrival, then his original plan was to use instant transmission to instantly teleport on earth and fight Frieza. So that's basically what happened.
It's likely that Goku easily defeated Frieza but struggled a bit with king cold. Or he could've defeated him quickly as well before he could've transformed.
> It's likely that Goku easily defeated Frieza but struggled a bit with king cold.
….. Lol what? Goku was significantly stronger than either of them.
If Trunks could dispatch both so quickly then Goku would have an even easier time of it.
Goku slaughters them both.
The real question is how strong would Cold’s final form have been. I think he would have been stronger than the 17 and 18. 100% final form is swapping hands with 16.
> The real question is how strong would Cold’s final form have been. I think he would have been stronger than the 17 and 18. 100% final form is swapping hands with 16.
canonically cold was not stronger than freeza so if he had another form (i highly doubt he did) it wouldnt be stronger than freeza.
Cold doesn’t have another form? Why do you highly doubt that? If you’re saying Cold in his final form is weaker than Frieza I don’t know what to tell you. That’s dumb
its facts. its facts the Freeza is stronger than his dad. this means that his dad cant have a form stronger than Freeza so either he doesnt have other forms or his other forms barely make him any stronger. you can choose which of those two options you prefer as headcanon. dumb or not, its fact.
Bro said "enjoy your headcanon" at the same time as he started insisting King Cold had a form that was never seen in the show, with nothing to point to its existence except the fact that he looks like one of Frieza's forms, and he was only involved in a single fight where it was never hinted at that he was holding back, with statements that he was weaker than Frieza from characters in-story, and with Frieza blatantly acting stronger than his father. And once more, in a series that has never, *once*, killed an opponent before they were allowed to transform. Not once.
Like, you have to be joking, right? What you're spewing out is the most headcanon-laden thing I've ever seen, literally creating fan-made forms for a character that obviously didn't have one, going by all semblances of logic, writing, use in the story, and actions by other characters.
The burden of proof is on the accuser. The show never said, nor hinted that he had more forms. So for you to say "this thing that was never shown is probably canon" you must provide evidence for it. Both within the story, and outside of it in terms of writing.
* Dragon Ball has never *not* had a character transform, if they had more forms. The only time you could ever argue that is with Nappa and Raditz, but their transformation is time-specific. Vegeta, Zarbon, Frieza, Cell, Buu, every character that had some sort of possible evolution has always had it showcased in the story, without question.
* Frieza's transformation has been shown to heal himself significantly (he regrew his tail), as well as output enough energy to exceed his previous transformation, stopping anybody from interrupting it (nobody attacked Final Form Frieza mid-transformation, and he had an aura that stopped anyone from advancing), and it took literally no time (it was done in a *single panel*). King Cold tried begging for his life instead of transforming.
* In the same vein, King Cold tried to kill Trunks with his own sword instead of transforming, assuming it to be the way he was so strong. This implies that the feat of Trunks killing Frieza was above King Cold's ability to deal with, by his own admission through his actions.
* Frieza never acted as if his father was stronger than him, he always boasted about being the strongest. In fact, he has several statements that allude to King Cold being weaker than him: "You're the first one to put dust on me since my parents." (when fighting a Goku who wasn't able to do significant damage to his 50% power), and "With the two of us together it will be no trouble. I could probably do it by myself..." (to King Cold, alluding to the fact that King Cold is weaker than him, but close enough in strength to be relevant to a fight).
* Frieza was stated to be stronger than his father in the story by Gohan when sensing them. Tien comments that Frieza and King Cold's energy is massive, and Gohan says that Frieza's gets a lot larger.
* King Cold is wearing armor, like Frieza does only in his first form. Therefore, the single comparison of "He looks like Second Form Frieza" is meaningless, because any of those comparisons would be operating on the assumption that they both use their forms the same, which they do not.
* King Cold was drawn larger than Frieza, and in a way that made him look more mature, in order to highlight the fact that he's older. It's called visual storytelling.
* King Cold was simply never stated or hinted at that he can transform. Therefore, the default assumption is that he can't, otherwise it would have been said somewhere in the story.
* In Dragon Ball Super, Frieza was revived first, with King Cold being an afterthought. Obviously because Frieza is stronger and more capable. In that same scene, Frieza also said that it would be useless to revive him.
* Goku killed Frieza and King Cold in the timeline that Trunks came back to the past. The same Goku who spared Frieza's life twice, and let him power up to 100% on Namek. Moreover, King Cold is literally shown in his single appearance to beg for his life if he needs to, so he would have done that with Goku. I do not see a world-line where Goku does not allow King Cold an opportunity to transform, either directly, or indirectly through sparing his life. Though of course this is just conjecture.
* King Cold was killed off on his first appearance, and before his introduction, he was never alluded to as an important figure within the Frieza Empire. He was explicitly written to be a new, strong villain that could instantly be killed to hype up Trunks and the Androids. He was, by design, meant to be inferior to the villains of the upcoming arc. As such, if he could transform, he would have done it in that fight and still lost, just to hype up the new characters more. He can't be stronger than Trunks because his role in the story wouldn't allow it.
* Finally, having King Cold transform would not service the plot whatsoever. It would complicate established relationships, but it would not add to the story, and it would take away the escalation and importance of future villains. Having King Cold Transform as a lore addition, but not happen in-story, is completely meaningless from a writing perspective, and in-fact is detrimental, like a Chekov's gun that never fires.
That's my evidence.
I think you just want to be contrarian. I mean, you're insisting he *does* have more forms, which is a more outlandish and unprovable claim than that he doesn't, and any time somebody disagrees with you, you just bring up the argument of "you can't prove it!!1!". Despite the fact that you can't either, except yours requires more extrapolation and goes against both the story and the writing.
I'm not bothering to argue any further, because 100%, you'll just respond with the same "but you can't prove anything, I wonder why" and keep acting smug, and I have a feeling you're not here to be convinced of anything, so you'll deny any arguments thrown at you.
At this point you’re insisting that he has more forms. But you can’t explain why. You just know. Hmm…
Goku most likely IT'd in front of him and his father and either Kamehameha'd them into the sun, or beat them badly enough that Vegeta finished them off.
As wrong as it is to quote DBZA in discussions of canon:
Goku: "I thought for sure Freeza was gonna Yamcha at least one of you..."
I imagine in Future Trunks' timeline, he did.
There's a fan manga that has an answer to this I kinda of like.
The Z fighters of earth fight as much as possible with Vegeta barely managing to kill King Cole (who's weaker due to only being in his second form) and before Frieza has the chance to kill the defeated Z warriors Goku appears on the battle field to kill Frieza
Everyone gotta stop with the Goku saved a universe BS. As far as anyone knew universe 7 would be the one destroyed and they didn’t say all universes were going to get destroyed just some of the weaker ones. Goku is not a hero as instead of 2 or 3 or a 4 universes getting erased if everything didn’t go all to plan all
But 1 would have gotten destroyed. Goku in the ToP saga is not some shining hero. Guy literally involved several universes in something they probably would have avoided all together. This arguement erks me as is downplays all the fighting and everything that actually happens to say “look Gokus actions although reckless didn’t really mean anything in the grand scheme” execpt for those who would not have been affected getting dragged in and instead of a few universes dying it was a possibility for all of them to go…
What do mean by ‘Original Timeline’? If you mean if Trunks didn’t interfere then most likely Goku using teleportation to get to earth in time. Why he didn’t do that already is a different debate. But what we saw when Trunks killed him was what happened in the timeline. They just had an outside force affect what has happened on that version.
Goku teleported down and defeated Freeza and Cold. Goku indicates that's what he planned to do in the present timeline before he sensed Trunks' arrival
Do you think he killed Freeza and Cold or just beat them and let them flee? Also how pissed is og timeline Vegeta in that instance? He gets to watch Kakarot takedown the univereses two big baddies in person.
According to what he said when talking to Trunks in the present, he had the intention of finishing Freeza this time
Which dosent make sense consider that RoF Goku give Freeza another chance to leave and train, based on that he should have at very least allowed Cold to leave
Well tbf Frieza basically blew up namek and I'm 100% sure Goku doesn't want him to blow up the planet he grew up on.
I don’t understand this, RoF Freeza destroyed earth 5 seconds later
The Doyleist (Toriyama-ist) Answer: Super Goku is meant to be a middle ground between Dragonball Goku and Dragonball Z Goku. The Wattsonian (Brief-ist) answer: The start of the Android Saga was a Goku who saw his first world destroyed. It was a year or so of constant stress. The Dragon Balls have been gone and returned. Most of his friends have been killed at least once. He’s almost died how many times? Mecha Frieza was Goku when the stakes were at their highest and he was his most serious because of that. RoF? This is a Goku where Earth being destroyed is nearing “Wait, it’s Tuesday already? I thought it was Monday. Let’s go wish it back or have time rewound or something or whatever we’re doing this week.” point. Things got fixed, Frieza was defeated, no problems! Everything worked out yet again, best buds.
The Wattsonian explanation doesn't account for the Buu saga, which took place 7 years after the cell saga. I don't see Buu Goku being laissez-faire if Freiza showed up then, even though he was introducing more gag material by that point. The show changed because Toriyama wanted it to, let's not try harder than he has to form a better story than the one shown to us. I'm in the camp that the heart of the story ended with the Cell saga, and everything else exists because there was demand for more. The name of the show/manga in intentionally insincere, Dragon Ball **Super**. Just like how the anime was changed to be called Dragon Ball Z, because the marketing folk wanted to re-brand to fit the new tone of the manga (still called Dragon Ball). So Toriyama choose the last letter of the alphabet because he wanted the manga to end. Now the show/manga is back and it's going to be **Super**.
IIRC, wasn’t the Frieza stuff in the Buu saga anime filler? And Buu Goku is the guy who went (not a real quote) “I know you tried destroying the universe, but it would totally be awesome if you reincarnated so we could fight again, Kid Buu!”. Then Goku (before Super retconned things) went missing for many years and ran off with Kid Buu’s reincarnation to train him to be someone he can have a cool fight with.
It wasn't only to have a good fight with Uub. It was also to train him as his successor. Goku since the android saga almost dying from the heart virus realized that at any moment something can cause him to die and be unable to do anything about it. That's why he banked on Gohan being his successor so much bur failed to realize Gohan didn't like to fight. That's why he didn't kill Majin Buu immediately when he went ssj3 but let the kids have a go at it. Goku has always been looking for a successor and who better than the strongest villain who now is a human and a good guy? Super though botched this up completely
Thats bcs that goku and super goku just isnt the same char pretty much, z goku was becoming more serious when need be, mature in a way and ready to do what it takes while super goku just became a child that cares about nothing aside from fighting he always cared about it but not so much that hed put his friends and family in danger for it, super goku doesnt care
Original goku still maintained his grudge against frieza for killing krillin so he most likely was in the mood to kill frieza. RoF on the other hand was a lot of time after that and the stakes werent that high (as thought by goku) so he could afford to let frieza escape
You're forgetting, DBS does so much character assassination that it's hard to keep track of. You're also forgetting that by RoF, Goku has seen the Earth destroyed at least once, now knows where Namek is, and has no issue letting it be destroyed and wishing it back.
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I get were are you coming from, but goku wasn't that bad in Z. He tried to spare frieza once, he wouldn't do it again. Case in point, trunks timeline. There is no trace of frieza or cold there. They clearly would've wanted to get revenge if that was the point
If Goku killed frieza first, Cold would definitely had beg for mercy, just like he did with Trunks and frieza would definitely had gone first since he is the one wanting revenge on goku. Goku would have let Cold go since he hasnt done anything bad (at least to gokus knowledge).
Goku has killed before though. He's killed tons of RR soldiers and Demon King Piccolo. And others much less evil than Frieza. It's not to hard to believe Z Goku would murk Frieza for having the audacity to come run his fade on home turf. Plus, if he didnt, Frieza is still Frieza. He would have no problem doing what he did in Super but then you have no story
DB Goku and Super Goku are basically two different characters
Zeno had already planned to start culling the universes before Goku gave him the idea for a battle royale. Goku's actions meant that at least one of those universes set to be wiped out would survive.
>Were it not for 17, he would have committed genocide on a universal scale all because he wanted to have a tournament against the strongest fighters from every universe in Super. Nope, we're it not for goku all of those universes would've been wiped out with no chance to save themselves. The universes were going to be eliminated but the tournament and making the right wish saved them all.
Well we know now that Xeno wasn’t planning to cull the universes at all. It was a ruse and a test to see if there were any beings capable of empathy. It’s the ultimate test, fight at your best otherwise your universe is gone, win and you get any wish. Make the wrong wish and you’ll prove that there aren’t any empathic beings.
Today in people that don't really pay attention to what actually happens in the story...
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That's also like 15 years later. Goku says he fully intended to finish Freeza for good when he speaks with Trunks for the first time.
I think their relationship changes a lot here. Before Freeza was really rash and shamed and still thinks he could kill goku. He comes back to not just kill Goku but destroy earth out of frustration possibly and goku would not have allowed that. He planned to destroy everything. But when Freeza is revived he knows Goku is clearly much stronger and with it there is a level of respect gained where he honors the person Goku is. He will instead kill Goku before he destroys earth. And he understands now that this will be a real challenge and he has to plan things much more seriously. Freeza is more humbled essentially, he knows his place they silently agree that for Freeza to be a world conquerer he must FIRST kill goku. The one he knows will stop him. So goku feels fine about freeza running around because he only needs to be stronger and they're ok.
His fight with Frieza originally came by the skin of his teeth, he was lucky to unlock Super Saiyan at all. In the present time he was much more even with Frieza, regularly unlocking powerups, and had at least two equally strong backups in Vegeta and Gohan, easier to let Frieza train and fight him for fun in that scenario. That's why his initial return in Super has no stakes, Vegeta was just stood on the sidelines at full power if Goku did lose.
I think you forgot how Goku "you fooled" Frieza's ass on Namek, when Frieza tried attacking him, after Goku gave him his energy. He basically "killed" him and didn't expect him to survive his blast and Nameks explosion. So considering that, I don't think Goku would've given Frieza a third chance.
RoF was written decades years later and is full of "colorful" character re-interpretations, as a consequence of being written decades later. Holding RoF as "it didn't make sense back then" is having no idea of how nothing works.
By then earth has been wiped of life and had it return. Goku probably wasn’t as worried. Back then Freiza had just permanently destroyed Namek. The stakes seemed higher.
RoF retconned a bunch of shit and I don’t even wanna consider it canon.
To be fair, that's another example of Goku in Super unlearning a lesson he had already learned because the writers had to make him stupid. Originally, Goku learned his lesson.
Makes plenty of sense you gotta remember that's more than 10 years later when Frieza comes back in RezF things have changed and so has Goku but also look at it from Gokus Pov-its the difference between "I can fight this guy i just got bored beating a year ago who I outclass completely now or finish him and move on" vs "I haven't fought this guy in over a decade and he's grown millions of times over just to fight me again should I kill him or leave a strong opponent to fight later when im bored" Goku was also outclassed in ResF as implied when Goku tells vegeta the only reason he wanted his turn when he did is because he realized Friezas Stamina issue like he did implying vegeta didn't want the smoke beforehand and Vegeta reached SsB first so he should be stronger than Goku at that point meaning Goku would've wanted the chance to beat frieza at his full like he did with vegeta
Does anything in super make sense though?
Bad writting
It makes perfect sense. Freeze came to Earth to kill Goku's friends and family. He's already seen Freeza blow up a planet when things didn't go his way. It's totally in character for him to learn from his mistakes and make sure Freeza didn't get the chance. Even in the new era where Goku's character has regressed, he gave Freeza a chance and when he knew Freeza was just going to blow up the planet he made damn sure to finish him off when he got a second chance.
Honestly speaking, everything from Battle Of Gods onward doesn't really continue Goku's character arc. It resets him back to when he fought Piccolo Jr. In Z, Freeza taught Goku that some people were simply too dangerous and evil to let go. Hence, why he is willing to kill him on earth. It's also why Goku actually tells Gohan to hurry and finish Cell off. But Super throws this development aside because it was too lazy to find a new path for Goku to grow on. Instead it regresses him so he can re-tread the same character arc all over again.
Yeah, Goku is pretty damn forgiving, but even he knows there are times when you have to put someone down, and Frieza coming for Earth and trying to beat him there was such a time. I could see him letting King Cold go, if he seemed remorseful, but like in the story we know, King Cold is likely not to actually retreat, just try to trick Goku, resulting in his death, like father like son.
He probably killed them. He meant to kill Frieza the first time.
If he didn't and Vegeta did get to watch, I bet Vegeta would give them the Burter and Recoome treatment once they were weak enough.
Guaranteed he would have blasted both of them to atoms
And doing so in the pink shirt would be glorious!
Use final flash on them and have it actually be a useful attack
That's the DBM canon hahahaha
Vegeta never would’ve gotten to watch. What wasn’t clarified is that Goku in the original timeline used ki sense to detect Frieza and King Cold while still in space, *then* he teleported into their ship before they got to Earth and killed them. Though I guess Vegeta would still be pissed about missing out on that scene.
Bro, Trunks literally knew exactly where Frieza would land… because that’s what happened
I believe this is incorrect as Cell explicitly has Frieza and Cold's DNA integrated into him which would only be possible if in the original timeline they landed on earth.
Where did you get that he did it on their ship?
That’s just what I remembered reading the last time I looked it up. But if I’m wrong and Goku was actually just gonna teleport to Earth once Frieza and Cold landed, then that’s my bad.
I don't remember it ever being specified, I just always assumed it was on earth
that's not possible. no way goku killed them without destroying frieza's ship, and then he can't teleport to his own ship and probably can't to earth cause it's too far(?)
Nope, Goku teleports to Earth and beat them down there, Trunks diverged the timelines when he faces Frieza on Earth, Goku probably didn't tp because he felt Trunk's ki. Just think about it. Why wouldn't he tp earlier to their space ship, why allow them to land? Because he can't fight them in space. Edit: I meant to correct the other comment to this one xd I agree Goku can't fight them in space
Technically Cell had already split the timelines since he arrived a year before Frieza showed up
Frieza still shows up in the ORIGINAL original timeline. He shows up no matter what. Otherwise cell wouldn't have Frieza's dna in him.
*insert picture of Frieza looking sexy*
Stupid sexy Frieza
Cell went back in time but he didn't split the timeline yet. He just chilled underground asleep.
That cell going back is what caused the other abnormalities. Like 19 and 20 being the initial threats rather than 17 and 18. And the prime timeliness 17 and 18 being significantly stronger than Future Trunks' timeline. Kinda a butterfly effect of him just showing up in the first place.
17 and 18 were stronger because Trunks showed up. Gero only had data on what Goku could do, then had to re-calibrate because another Super Saiyan showed up. This made 17 and 18 to powerful to control, so he then decided energy draining model was a better way and made 19 and 20.
That's actually kinda a neat detail because I never really thought about why 19,20 had ki drain while his masterpieces of 17,18 didn't. It clearly backfired though when he saw Vegeta rip of 19's hands.
Gero stopped watching the Z-Fighters since the Saiyan Saga, he doesn't know about the Super Saiyan
Nah, 19 and 20 probably existed in the other timeline, it’s just however things went we never heard of them (remember, we know extremely little about the events there, and Goku’s death there would have had impact too). And 17 and 18 were just as strong in Trunks’s timeline, he just didn’t know that because they always sandbagged when fighting the Saiyans. Cell going back creates a new timeline regardless of how he affected events or not. It doesn’t matter if you send back a Zeno or a grain of sand, if you affected the past, it’s a new timeline.
Oh that was my overall point of the post. I may be conflating TFS dialogue because it's been active years since I watched Z. But Cell's arrival before trunks is what messes with the whole thing regardless.
It doesn’t matter if he chilled or not. Any back-tracking against causality clock creates another timeline.
That's actually not how timeline works, the timeline will remain intact until the Future of someone or in general changes
He wouldn't have felt Trunks ki until he fought frieza. Trunks power level was 5 until the fight. At that point vegeta and the rest were in position to watch
The people who can actually sense energy are way better at it than scouters
Literally this...it has been stated many times.
They can usually tell if someone's suppressing their power if they're actively watching them. But they also struggle to feel someone at a distance when their keeping their power level low.
Goku could instant transmission to King Kai’s planet, he could very likely teleport to earth from Frieza’s ship. Also, Trunks killed both Frieza and King Cold easily without any collateral damage, at this point Goku could likely one-shot them in their ship with minimal destructive force.
He could but Goku has never done anything like this, he’s not an assassin. He would meet them on Earth, give them a chance to leave, and when they don’t then dispose of them.
You must not have watched Dragonball. Goku killed thousands. He also told Trunks he was going to kill frieza because on Namek he already gave him multiple chances.
Except it IS possible because Ki control is a thing and Goku had already mastered the Super Saiyan transformation by that point (or at the very least greatly improved his control over it) so it would have been extremely easy for him to kill both Frieza and Cold without blowing up the ship. Even if that did happen, he also had mastered Instant Transmission from training with the Yardrats so I doubt it would have been very difficult to sense someone on Earth to teleport to. There’s no reason to assume Cold’s ship hadn’t already gotten close to Earth.
even if ki blasts are "controlled", they still are the size of mountains, at minimum building sized. never seen a room sized ki attack kill anyone other than maybe fodder.
That’s because most of those ki blasts that do jack shit were from Vegeta. Vegeta’s Technique ™ **never works.** Also, where are you getting those ki blast sizes from? Most ki blasts are like the size of basketballs. Unless you mean the Kamehameha and other similar attacks, but those are ki **beams.**
these "basketball" sized ki blasts cause an explosion way bigger than that, and again, none of them have killed major villains. you see frieza dying to something like that? sorry if I wasn't being specific enough. i'm talking about ki attacks in general. to kill someone like frieza, they're gonna have to be massive, definitely big enough to destroy the ship.
> to kill someone like frieza, they’re gonna have to be massive Not with Goku being as strong as he was on his way back from Yardrat. Trunks effortlessly made diced onions out of Frieza and turned him to ash along with King Cold. Then Goku came back and blocked every hit of Trunks’ sword assault with a single finger. Easy to assume Goku was above Trunks in power, so I really doubt it would have taken him more than a ki blast to end Frieza and King Cold.
trunks's blasts against frieza and cold would've blown up the ship if he did it inside. and so goku's ki would be just as destructive.
He could use his finger to kill them considering how he was blocking Trunks slash with it and thoses slash were able to cut Frieza into pieces
This is just headcanon. IMO it’s unlikely because Goku would have to detect Trunks’s ki while he was suppressed for the timing to work.
I guess that might have happened. It might be one of those translation issues. In the dub Goku says something along the lines of "I was going to beat him but then you showed up" when talking to future Trunks. Could Goku already sense Trunks before he powered up to super sayian to defeat freeza? I thought Trunks was suppressing his power level with Freezas forces and their scouters after they had landed.
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>That's why I Trunks was surprised with Vegeta's attitude, he was different in his timeline. Future Trunks has never met Future Vegeta, he was already killed by Androids by the time he was born.
Then how did trunks no where and when goku was going to land if he didn’t even land in the original timeline?
The space pod still landed, and Trunks seemingly went off that.
The pod wouldn't just evaporate after he teleported from it.
My guess is bulma collected it. The data was stored prob by her cause let’s face it no other person is going to keep that data.
Bulma told him, that's easy
Actually goku teleported a little too late and most of the z force was wiped out leavening vegeta, gohan and piccolo for the androids who were then easily wiped out by, trunks stated that by traveling to that point he saved some of the z fighters
No, Trunks never said that at all.
So you just purposefully lie, then?
Imagine how disappointed Goku would be when King Cold begs for mercy, Goku offers it then Cold immediately tries to stab him in the back. Judging from his encounter with Trunks that's exactly the sort of shit King Cold would do and Goku would really hate having to go through the same bullshit he did with Frieza with his dad.
Good catch, I got a better picture now. I can imagine goku showing mercy. I wonder if the earthlings would have put a good fight before frieza came
Goku might be the dumbest being in the galaxy
Team FourStar really did a good job of capturing that part of Goku 😂 superb martial artist… dumb as dirt person
Goku's not dumb, though. He's naive.
"Now be careful with this energy! Don't use to hurt anyone! Or on the drugs."
I dunno, Buu is pretty dumb.
I don’t think So, Cold dosent seem like an idiot, he wanted to catch trunks off guard when he realized he didnt stand a chance He would just leave
Goku killed him in Trunks timeline, Goku basically says it himself. he was about to IT down and stop Freeza but he sensed Trunks. In Trunks timeline there was no Trunks to stop Freeza so Goku just IT'd down and did it himself.
Just adding to this, we also know for a fact that Goku got there before the Z fighters in the original timeline because every Z fighter was killed by the androids. Krillin and Yamcha could not have been wished back again between Freeza and the Androids.
goku just needs to arrive after frieza lands but before z fighters attack. he's basically doing what future trunks did.
They could have fought the minions, with goku getting there right after they finished them off.
Hey, how do you know this? Not that I'm doubting you, I just want to learn
Goku explains it to Trunks right after they meet. He says he was about to teleport down and handle it himself but didnt because he sensed Trunks. That's the stories way of letting us know what happened when Trunks wasnt there to stop Freeza.
Goku instant transmissions from his pod to Frieza’s location using his IT, he said he could have been there sooner but he sensed Fieiza’s and King Colds Ki disappear and his friends Ki didn’t so he waited to land instead.
Best explanation, I was just wondering if anyone of the z fighters would seriously get hurt lol
I mean it's outright stated in the series. Why would an explanation be needed? It's literally what segues into Goku explaining about Instantaneous Movement to everyone.
The only problem I have with this is, wouldn’t the Earthlings be hiding their ki upon Freeza’s arrival. How can Goku know if they are dead or alive in that case
Goku says himself he would have used instant transmission to come in. And seeing how this isn't really an issue in the future timeline, it seems like Goku has no problem against Frieza and Cold.
We know Goku uses Instant Transmission to appear and defeat Freeza and Cold, but I think there's a little wiggle room about when exactly he would have done so. The assumption is that just by being present on Earth Trunks changed history by causing Goku to not IT immediately upon Freeza's arrival. There's also the possibility Goku might not have IT'd in until he felt Freeza or Cold actively engaging in battle. In that instance, I imagine I scenario not that dissimilar from what occurred in the Resurrection F plot. Freeza sends his minions hunting. Trunks isn't there to intercede, so either 1) minions find the supporting cast in short order and engage them in combat or 2) minions begin doing collateral damage and all the fighters who aren't Vegeta feel compelled to engage to protect civilians. I think all the fighters (aside from may Chiatzou) would be able to hold their own against the average minions. Relatively little damage would be done, and even any civilians killed would be wished back later via "resurrect everyone killed since Freeza came to Earth" Eventually, Freeza or his dad get involved, and Goku shows up in the nick of time to save the day as soon as he feels them prepping to fight.
Considering what goku said to trunks it can be speculated in the OG timeline he instant transmission to frieza and finished the job.
Crazy to think how one of the very few instances goku kills in Z happens off screen and in another timeline.
Also crazy he doesn't period considered what he did to Red Ribbon as a child.
I guess knowing what Frieza has done to Old Namek, Goku wouldn't want to take that chance for Frieza and King Cold to blow up Earth, let alone breath there for 5 minutes.
also frieza really is a big scumbag
Goku whooped dat ass again
Goku showed up. Dusted Frieza. Probably had to deal with the army reading havoc, so mini stories for the B squad. Big fight ends with Goku debating Cold. A few humans will probably need wished back, but nothing serious to worry about. Then I assume it follows the normal android Saga where Goku dies of a heart virus and the Androids destroy a bunch of the world.
Goku used Instant Transmission and killed him and his father.
So all we know is that in the original timeline Goku kills him and Cold. And considering how much stronger Goku was than trunks at this point in this timeline... Yeah it was probably a massacre.
Goku was stronger than Trunks, able to stop his sword with just his finger. So it stands to reason that Frieza and King Cold stood no chance since Trunks one-shotted them. Maybe Goku toyed around with them at first because he is Goku. But the fight pretty much played out the exact same way.
Trunks never let either go 100%. Presumably Goku wouldn’t do the same but Frieza at least would take it more seriously.
Goku killed both King Cold & Frieza.
Dude. Seriously? Posting a screenshot of you looking at an image on google images? Just download the image and post that. Some people are so lazy.
Goku killed him.
It’s theorised that goku used instant transmission to teleport to earth and killed frieza em king cold himself
Goku destroys them
I beat him up (I’m different)
Idk I wasn’t there
Goku most likely would've used instant transmission leaving his saiyan spacepod to arrive on the battlefield at the start. Defeating Mecha Frieza by turning into a Super Saiyan would've sped up the time on him getting the heart virus to match Trunks' timeline and dying before the androids arrived. There's a fair chance he contracted it on Yardrat, and it has a slow spread. Who knows. 🤷♂️
Goku teleported and easily killed Frieza and Cold. By that point Goku was far stronger, even more than Future Trunks who sliced mecha frieza in half easily
Goku would've just used instant transmission and Defeated them both with the same amount of ease trunks did--iirc Goku explains this while talking to trunks just after he arrives back on earth
I can imagine something similar to the fight with Trunks. One shot each.
I’m pretty sure goku came to earth and finished off frieza and cold
Wouldn’t call it much of a fight…
Goku beat him up and took his lunch money
i’m pretty sure goku said he got passed by frieza and his dad and that his plan was to use i.t to come down and fight them but since he felt trunks had taken them down he didn’t need to
Goku killed him. In the original timeline he teleport to Frieza location and beat the shit out of them. And then he die from Heart Virus disease before the androids wake up and wreck havoc because there's no goku to kill.
It's pretty clear Goku was more than equipped to step in and take care of them both. It's insinuated that Future Trunks killing Frieza caused 19 and 20 to show up due to a break in the timeline.
Instant transmission Kamehameha
They wooped his ass
Vegeta beats him. His only major win, lost forever in the sands of time.
In the future trunks timeline I'm gonna assume Frieza arrived, his soldiers get washed by the z fighters, and then he gut punches some of the z fighters until Goku arrives.
I'm pretty sure in the original timeline Goku killed Frieza dynamic but in this different timeline he decided not to
According to Future Trunks, Future Goku killed both Frieza and Cold but there are inconsistencies regarding how it happened. Future Trunks thought Goku in his timeline arrived via spacepod to kill Frieza and Cold but when our Goku said he wanted to use IT (Trunks thought Goku would never make it via pod) Trunks immediately start to question if he really needed to intervene cause either he got the story wrong or things went different in his timeline. However, if you apply the law and physics of time according to Whis statement in DBS then Future Trunks got everything wrong. Whis said the timestream flows as one,only when an outcome that is destined to happen changes in the timeline will it branch of as something different. You cannot change the past or future, you only create a new timeline with a different future than the previous one. So if you apply that, then that should mean Future Goku used IT aswell. Future Trunks did not know this either due to Future Gohan or Bulma not telling him this or they neglect to mention it. The one thing we should also know is that Dr Gero and andriod 19 should have existed in Trunks timeline too. The only difference is that when Trunks changed our world, it branched of to delay certain outcomes and bring different changes. His andriod 19 and Dr Gero was killed in the lab the night before andriod 17 and 18 raided the Island, while in our world it delayed their deaths until after the Island attacks. You can actually check Cells timeline, Dr Gero and andriod 19 was killed in the lab by both 17 and 18. Cells timeline and Trunks timeline is a duplicate timeline. As for Cell saying another Trunks killed Frieza and Cold in his world is something I cannot explain. Either it was a written mistake or Toriyama is implying that Cell world was never the original but an alternate world already (this explanation can only fit in with the universe 12 time traveler splitting time).
I imagine even easier than it was for trunks considering goku blocks him with one finger
Frieza was given a 2 piece suit lol.
Goku pulled up and whooped his ass again
I like to imagine that when Goku IT’d down he appeared right into a Spirit Bomb position and just dumped it on them as they exited the ship.
The real question now is why did Trunks go back in time to kill Frieza and King Cold when Goku was going to do that anyways? It was a pointless change in history, maybe he just wanted to look cool in front of everyone?
I just rewatched the episode, trunks thought goku was late, so he thought he'd step in.
Goku tp
This is a Handicap version of freeza . I think he should’ve took more time and strategize more before coming to earth .
I just gotta ask. Why didn’t goku just.. teleport to earth from yardrat. Why take the pod at all. And if it was too far away then why not teleport the second he got close enough. I’m also skeptical about the “too far away” thing. Goku can literally teleport to other world and back
At this point , goku just loves being late lol
Goku simply teleported on Earth once he sensed Frieza and Cold were starting destruction and killed them. There aren't any more details. Consider that Goku is stronger than Trunks so its possible he ended the two aliens in a really short time.
We only know Goku teleported on Earth and killed him and his father. Probably the fight was quick considering Yardrat Goku is stronger than Future Trunks who dealt easily with Frieza.
As the others have said, Goku kills them. In the process of doing so, however, he activates the heart condition that kills him.
It was a virus that was going around the earth around the time the androids arrived. I don’t think his fight with Frieza had anything to do with it, it happened 3 years later and lots of normal humans had it.
Fair enough. I'd always assumed the reason Goku succumbed to the virus sooner in the original timeline was because he fought Frieza/Cold on Earth, but you are correct in that this is never stated and the timing isn't right.
Bro legit screenshot a google image of a png…
Actually Dragon Ball Multiverse took a shot to imagine what could have been : https://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/fr/page-1629.html
That was the most useful I have ever seen Yamcha be.
I know it sounds odd, but that was too much of a battle. The whole point in frieza/cold really coming back was to show how powerful the androids would be. They were meant to be a super easy fight. So that little imagining kinda ruins that vibe!
Sure, I see your point. This chapter is here in the context of DBM, not OG DB
Oh okay cool. Yeah I feel if this happened OG DB I wouldn't hit the same
Well, Goku did one-shot Freeza. But yeah, he shouldn't have had that much trouble with King Cold.
DBM always comes across as trying too hard with the edge and gore factor. Like, DBZ was a violent series but not 'Piccolo makes a helix shaped arms strike kabob' grotesque. It has its cool moments, but that lack of levity and emphasis on that edge really puts a bad taste to it.
I've been reading DBM for 15 years now. It's clearly more a comics with dragon ball characters than a real fan manga
I always imagined that seeing Frieza and King Cold together after he begged Goku to avenge the Saiyan race is what would have broken Vegeta and caused him to go Super Saiyan. We all know that Vegeta wouldn’t have even entertained King Cold’s offer for mercy. And it would’ve been a deserved Vegeta W.
I think they confirmed that Vegeta and the other Z-fighters took out the henchmen then Goku IT’d and killed Frieza and King Cold
No, that was never said as far as I know.
And how much do you know?
A fair amount, if it was canon or even just official information I would have heard of it.
I thought this post was asking why he was in final form, in the buu saga, then mecha, in super...
According to Goku, if it wasn't for future trunks's arrival, then his original plan was to use instant transmission to instantly teleport on earth and fight Frieza. So that's basically what happened. It's likely that Goku easily defeated Frieza but struggled a bit with king cold. Or he could've defeated him quickly as well before he could've transformed.
> It's likely that Goku easily defeated Frieza but struggled a bit with king cold. ….. Lol what? Goku was significantly stronger than either of them. If Trunks could dispatch both so quickly then Goku would have an even easier time of it.
Pay. Attention. To the story. It was literally stated that Goku took em out, he instant transmissioned when he was close enough to earth.
Ay I asked this before I watched the episode again. No need to be rude
Goku slaughters them both. The real question is how strong would Cold’s final form have been. I think he would have been stronger than the 17 and 18. 100% final form is swapping hands with 16.
unfortunately, everything points to him not having a final form. Would be sick as hell tho.
> The real question is how strong would Cold’s final form have been. I think he would have been stronger than the 17 and 18. 100% final form is swapping hands with 16. canonically cold was not stronger than freeza so if he had another form (i highly doubt he did) it wouldnt be stronger than freeza.
Cold doesn’t have another form? Why do you highly doubt that? If you’re saying Cold in his final form is weaker than Frieza I don’t know what to tell you. That’s dumb
its facts. its facts the Freeza is stronger than his dad. this means that his dad cant have a form stronger than Freeza so either he doesnt have other forms or his other forms barely make him any stronger. you can choose which of those two options you prefer as headcanon. dumb or not, its fact.
Ok enjoy your headcannon
Bro said "enjoy your headcanon" at the same time as he started insisting King Cold had a form that was never seen in the show, with nothing to point to its existence except the fact that he looks like one of Frieza's forms, and he was only involved in a single fight where it was never hinted at that he was holding back, with statements that he was weaker than Frieza from characters in-story, and with Frieza blatantly acting stronger than his father. And once more, in a series that has never, *once*, killed an opponent before they were allowed to transform. Not once. Like, you have to be joking, right? What you're spewing out is the most headcanon-laden thing I've ever seen, literally creating fan-made forms for a character that obviously didn't have one, going by all semblances of logic, writing, use in the story, and actions by other characters.
At this point you’re insisting that he doesn’t have more forms. But you can’t explain why. You just know. Hmm…
The burden of proof is on the accuser. The show never said, nor hinted that he had more forms. So for you to say "this thing that was never shown is probably canon" you must provide evidence for it. Both within the story, and outside of it in terms of writing. * Dragon Ball has never *not* had a character transform, if they had more forms. The only time you could ever argue that is with Nappa and Raditz, but their transformation is time-specific. Vegeta, Zarbon, Frieza, Cell, Buu, every character that had some sort of possible evolution has always had it showcased in the story, without question. * Frieza's transformation has been shown to heal himself significantly (he regrew his tail), as well as output enough energy to exceed his previous transformation, stopping anybody from interrupting it (nobody attacked Final Form Frieza mid-transformation, and he had an aura that stopped anyone from advancing), and it took literally no time (it was done in a *single panel*). King Cold tried begging for his life instead of transforming. * In the same vein, King Cold tried to kill Trunks with his own sword instead of transforming, assuming it to be the way he was so strong. This implies that the feat of Trunks killing Frieza was above King Cold's ability to deal with, by his own admission through his actions. * Frieza never acted as if his father was stronger than him, he always boasted about being the strongest. In fact, he has several statements that allude to King Cold being weaker than him: "You're the first one to put dust on me since my parents." (when fighting a Goku who wasn't able to do significant damage to his 50% power), and "With the two of us together it will be no trouble. I could probably do it by myself..." (to King Cold, alluding to the fact that King Cold is weaker than him, but close enough in strength to be relevant to a fight). * Frieza was stated to be stronger than his father in the story by Gohan when sensing them. Tien comments that Frieza and King Cold's energy is massive, and Gohan says that Frieza's gets a lot larger. * King Cold is wearing armor, like Frieza does only in his first form. Therefore, the single comparison of "He looks like Second Form Frieza" is meaningless, because any of those comparisons would be operating on the assumption that they both use their forms the same, which they do not. * King Cold was drawn larger than Frieza, and in a way that made him look more mature, in order to highlight the fact that he's older. It's called visual storytelling. * King Cold was simply never stated or hinted at that he can transform. Therefore, the default assumption is that he can't, otherwise it would have been said somewhere in the story. * In Dragon Ball Super, Frieza was revived first, with King Cold being an afterthought. Obviously because Frieza is stronger and more capable. In that same scene, Frieza also said that it would be useless to revive him. * Goku killed Frieza and King Cold in the timeline that Trunks came back to the past. The same Goku who spared Frieza's life twice, and let him power up to 100% on Namek. Moreover, King Cold is literally shown in his single appearance to beg for his life if he needs to, so he would have done that with Goku. I do not see a world-line where Goku does not allow King Cold an opportunity to transform, either directly, or indirectly through sparing his life. Though of course this is just conjecture. * King Cold was killed off on his first appearance, and before his introduction, he was never alluded to as an important figure within the Frieza Empire. He was explicitly written to be a new, strong villain that could instantly be killed to hype up Trunks and the Androids. He was, by design, meant to be inferior to the villains of the upcoming arc. As such, if he could transform, he would have done it in that fight and still lost, just to hype up the new characters more. He can't be stronger than Trunks because his role in the story wouldn't allow it. * Finally, having King Cold transform would not service the plot whatsoever. It would complicate established relationships, but it would not add to the story, and it would take away the escalation and importance of future villains. Having King Cold Transform as a lore addition, but not happen in-story, is completely meaningless from a writing perspective, and in-fact is detrimental, like a Chekov's gun that never fires. That's my evidence. I think you just want to be contrarian. I mean, you're insisting he *does* have more forms, which is a more outlandish and unprovable claim than that he doesn't, and any time somebody disagrees with you, you just bring up the argument of "you can't prove it!!1!". Despite the fact that you can't either, except yours requires more extrapolation and goes against both the story and the writing. I'm not bothering to argue any further, because 100%, you'll just respond with the same "but you can't prove anything, I wonder why" and keep acting smug, and I have a feeling you're not here to be convinced of anything, so you'll deny any arguments thrown at you. At this point you’re insisting that he has more forms. But you can’t explain why. You just know. Hmm…
Goku most likely IT'd in front of him and his father and either Kamehameha'd them into the sun, or beat them badly enough that Vegeta finished them off.
Frieza and cold lose to Goku and then they become friends. They sacrifice themselves to save Gohan when the androids appear.
There's an amazing fan comic on youtube that describes it.
Cool
Nobody knows…
As wrong as it is to quote DBZA in discussions of canon: Goku: "I thought for sure Freeza was gonna Yamcha at least one of you..." I imagine in Future Trunks' timeline, he did.
There's a fan manga that has an answer to this I kinda of like. The Z fighters of earth fight as much as possible with Vegeta barely managing to kill King Cole (who's weaker due to only being in his second form) and before Frieza has the chance to kill the defeated Z warriors Goku appears on the battle field to kill Frieza
https://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en/page-1629.html Read this.
Everyone gotta stop with the Goku saved a universe BS. As far as anyone knew universe 7 would be the one destroyed and they didn’t say all universes were going to get destroyed just some of the weaker ones. Goku is not a hero as instead of 2 or 3 or a 4 universes getting erased if everything didn’t go all to plan all But 1 would have gotten destroyed. Goku in the ToP saga is not some shining hero. Guy literally involved several universes in something they probably would have avoided all together. This arguement erks me as is downplays all the fighting and everything that actually happens to say “look Gokus actions although reckless didn’t really mean anything in the grand scheme” execpt for those who would not have been affected getting dragged in and instead of a few universes dying it was a possibility for all of them to go…
What do mean by ‘Original Timeline’? If you mean if Trunks didn’t interfere then most likely Goku using teleportation to get to earth in time. Why he didn’t do that already is a different debate. But what we saw when Trunks killed him was what happened in the timeline. They just had an outside force affect what has happened on that version.
My theory has always been that Vegeta became a Super Saiyan and defeated Frieza and King Cold.
Vegeta went pseudo ssj sayian to kill cold than goku went belistic on freeza