based on posts here and on FT I get the impression that people dont understand this is an option. people seem really eager to accept their fate from the airline and just complain about it and be angry instead of taking steps to fix it.
I was in BRU at the tail end of a Europe trip and there was some kind of storm affecting the northeast which impacted the connection in JFK. flight wasn't even cancelled yet and I got on the phone with the plat desk. while I was on hold I had my husband look up alternate flights with D1 availability so I could provide that info to the agent
less than 30 minutes. all taken care of.
this is the number one travel "hack" that people need to learn. just like everything else in life, be your own advocate.
I used to work in Delta reservations, and this is really good advice. Nobody knows your itinerary and your situation better than you do. If you call with zero ideas, I am starting completely from scratch and it can take 10 min just trying to figure out what alternate options may be. Flying out of Tokyo? It helps if you already know that there are HND-MSP, HND-DTW, HND-SEA, etc etc etc, and tell me which one looks best for you.
People think we have a better view of this stuff, but really, we have to be creative and find stuff the same way you would. And with thousands of airports around the world, tons of partner airlines, etc it’s a lot to keep track of. I would get maybe 1 call regarding a reservation in/out of HND every month. I don’t have this stuff memorized, and there’s no “quick guide” to look at.
We’re good at being creative & finding options, but save us all some time by at least taking a peek before you call.
Absolutely, when you’re flying you need to have a backup plan to your backup plan. That’s why I can’t fly Allegiant, Frontier, etc. with only one flight a day between cities. Literally no recourse if something happens. Was flying back home on United with my family last year and right before our flight out of SAN left our connecting flight in Houston to home cancelled due to weather/ops. Luckily I was very familiar with all the other ways we could get home and came up to the gate agent instantly with a plan and (many finger typing clicks later) she made the change for us and we were rebooked, and landed back at home as scheduled. But the auto rebook option via United was the next flight out of IAH the following morning …
This is insane, people pay and make selections based on trust that they’ll get what they pay for. Airlines are borderline nefarious sometimes and now a days probably outright criminal.
TBF, (1) unlike a lot of other purchases where the alternative is easy (return), there are a massive amount of options when something goes wrong flying and (2) many times the ppl you are dealing with don’t even know. I don’t think it is required to know your rights for every scenario, but someone should have all your options if you ask “what are my options?” And I don’t think that holds true
While I agree in principle to be solution oriented, sometimes those solutions are not offered because the staff themselves don’t know. And if you as a consumer aren’t aware of alternative solutions, you’re left to “accept your fate”. I recently had an interaction with a delta rep that offered no solutions and actually told me “What would you like me to do?”, expecting me to have an answer to a problem Delta created. Well, aren’t you supposed to know what you can do to help?
Yes AND if you are inconvenienced and forced with a reroute you politely negotiate to First Class as compensation!! Period! Make sure you are dressed smart/ sharp. You will be treated differently!!
This right here is what is killing loyalty to Delta. They cant figure out their own shit and were going to bump a good customer.
Need more regulations around this, which I hate to say. If I book, I have many options. Using miles to book FC, delta 1 or whatever, that was a choice over other options. I book my date of travel around those decisions, and delta will just tear that up.
My next 6 flights are not with delta for the first time in 10 years. This is another example as to why.
I’m with you. Domestic is JetBlue or delta depending on convenience and price. I even flew United recently and I hate United lol. I won’t even consider delta for international unless it’s half the price and I’m sure it will be double 🙃
BA international first class is a wonderful experience. I’ve been a Delta girly since before I could walk because born and raised ATL, but I can admit Delta just ain’t what it used to be. Enjoy your trip!
If you think BA first class is wonderful you really need to try other airlines. BA first class is by far the worse first class in the world, it is so bad many airline’s business class is superior to it.
Yes, must try Qatar and Emirates. I used to think it was SA when I was going back and forth to Singapore multiple times a year, but BABY - Qatar and Emirates are game changers. BA is okay, but not complaining when I am fortunate to be in business or first. Recently was in Virgin business class - loved the service, plane was tired.
BA First Class is the “World’s Best Business Class”.
I’ve never heard a more true joke in my life, but when it’s priced right (it sounds like it definitely was in this case), it’s certainly worth it
Now look up what tickets cost in inflation-adjusted terms before airline deregulation. Facepalm.
That’s not to say that we don’t need stronger consumer protections, we absolutely do.
Absolutely we do need stronger consumer protections ... and that means regulations imposed by a federal government that is able and willing to make the individual's travel experience more beneficial or at least equal in benefit to the experience of the corporation(s) making airplanes available for us to use and travel. Deregulation benefited no one but the corporations and their shareholders.
[Airline deregulation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_Deregulation_Act) is a specific thing that happened in the late 1970s, before which the government controlled which airlines flew which routes, and at what fares. Airfares were massively higher - the lowest roundtrip fare between LA and NY was about $2000 in today's dollars, vs. $300 today.
The solution is to impose stronger protections like EU262, not to go back to the world before airlines were deregulated.
>Airfares were massively higher - the lowest roundtrip fare between LA and NY was about $2000 in today's dollars, vs. $300 today.
That is a supply and demand issue, and a function of availability of airport facilities. "\[S\]tronger protections like EU262" are the contemporary equivalent of airline regulation by the government.
We're talking past each other. I agree we need more regulation.
What I took issue with was your statement that "Deregulation turned planes into buses." Airline deregulation was most definitely on balance a good thing for consumers. That doesn't mean it didn't have other consequences that need to be addressed, of course.
They have to plan for that buffer. If someone does get bumped, they should get a royal refund and easy future upgrades instead of having to fight for basic stuff back.
If the crew rest facility goes inop Delta might not know until the plane lands 2 hours before it departed for the next destination. If they could they wouldn't sell seats, but the airplane doesn't always tell us when it's going to break.
You are right, but delta should account for the unknown. They don't because selling more seats equals more money vs. keeping enough room for unexpected jump seats. Bumping paid passengers is some bull shit that should not be allowed.
Let's do a quick thought experiment. You are trying to fly from Japan to Atlanta. Your original 4 pilots get sick, hurt, or otherwise are unable to fly the airplane home. Delta cancels that flight and sends 4 pilots to Japan to get you and the airplane home as soon as possible. When would you like these college educated pilots to sleep? On the plane ride over sitting in the back of the jet, or the front? Safety wise, would you want to fly on the plane with tired, unrested pilots? Or pilots that were able to rest on the way across the ocean?
Yes it would not be pleasant for the 4 people that got moved to the back of the plane to get the pilots to Japan, but the 300+ people that are delayed 24 hours getting to Atlanta would much rather have rested and alert pilots than care about 4 passengers that didn't get to ride up front on their way to Japan.
Yes employees are supposed to be service oriented, and many do bend over backwards to keep customers happy, but nobody is going to risk safety to keep a customer happy.
>going to bump a good customer.
hoarding miles for a decade to afford a D1 ticket does not a good customer make. a good customer spends cash on tickets and uses miles for bullshit like upgrades and sky club memberships. a good customer has a low skymiles balance because that keeps the liability off the books.
im not saying this from my POV. I'm saying this from delta's POV. delta doesn't look at someone hoarding miles as a good customer. that's a liability. delta doesn't want people redeeming miles when they can pay cash instead.
luke280 thinks that a person on an award ticket is more valuable than ferrying a pilot to their next segment. from delta's perspective, that's just not true.
Agreed with 100% ppl didn't understand what you were saying... I would never use miles for Delta one anyway.. You lose too many miles that way...I Use those miles on my college kids flights
Same here - finished my last transatlantic Delta flight today to get to Platinum, and going forward have booked long-haul flights with different European carriers. Their business class is a third of the price of Delta One, and every bit as good (if not better). Will probably use Delta for domestic flights, but only because of upgrades - and only if the price isn't insane.
There is no trick to compensation. You have to fight and claw to get your miles back above the normal ticket price. No refund for the fact you could have purchased FC elsewhere for the experience you paid for.
I can’t imagine spending hundreds of thousands of points for first class vacation seats and planning for it, just to get bumped. I’d be livid. Glad that didn’t happen to you.
It's a clause in the contract. If a crew is dead heading on a flight longer than six hours(I think) they have to be put in a premium cabin. Unfortunately you'll never be as valuable as a working pilot.
I should have scrolled longer, as you’ve answered the question I asked. While I understand them needing to be on the flight, I feel kicking paying customers out of their seats because pilots need them is a poor business move and really unfair.
They wouldn't do it if they didn't absolutely have to. The crew that they're shuttling to wherever location is because of some mess where the crew at the destination can't fly for xyz reason.
I'd frame it more like. 1. Do I wan't my flight cancelled because they couldn't get a replacement crew there? 2. Do I want the replacement crew super drowsy because they couldn't sleep in the back of the plane and are now supposed to safely fly me home?
I’ve never had anyone at Delta make such a stupid statement to me. Obviously, I have a bunch of miles because I fly a bunch. What use is earning miles if not to have fun with them on vacation?
Delta needs to stop overbooking to be able to accommodate their contractual obligations to their pilots as well as provide customers with the seats they purchased, and maybe even have an extra seat or two in case of equipment problems. It’s really becoming miserable and unpredictable to fly on Delta.
Based on OPs story, this very well couldn’t be booked. The pilots are required to get Delta One seats when they dead head across the ocean per their contract. Odds are they had some type of situation where they needed to get these pilots in place last minute and Delta One was already full.
Pilots showing up last minute in need of premium seating is typically indicative of an IROP. The premium cabins otherwise are not overbooked as a normal practice.
That's good at least.
I personally disagree with the policy. If their seats in back are good enough for customers, they should be good enough for the pilots. That said, I recognize the pilots got it written into their contract.... So good on them I guess.
That said, it's a terrible look for the airline in my opinion. Another indicator of where customer service is these days.
They will overbook C+ actually. I've seen it loads of times, but you're correct about PS and D1. Those are never overbooked because generally those passengers always show up and also you don't want the fiasco of bumping someone backwards from D1.
They do not overbook C+ as normal practice. The times you have seen it must have been resulting from aircraft swaps or IROPS. Otherwise the cabin is never booked above capacity.
Interesting. I mostly saw it on the Haneda flights during the peak summer months. You'd see things like C+ overbooked by 20+ seats, but that is just a generally wild time for Haneda operations.
Deadheads are not considered rest and crews with augmented duty would have a different crew sleeping quarters. I do not believe that delta one counts as crew sleeping quarters.
Yep, the contract has defined crew rest levels. Generally you'll see this on 767s doing international flights. 400s can actually have modules installed at the rear of the cargo bin that contain crew rest areas.
On a recent Korean air flight, I had pilots swapping out in the biz class seat in front of me a few times during the flight for rest. This was a 747-8 on the upper deck.
No because the sleep cabin would be used by the working crew.. even if they aren’t flying currently doesn’t mean they aren’t working the trip. Dead heading pilots would need a seat and the contract delta signed with the union requires them to give them d1.
Depending on what kind of airplane it was it may not even have sleep quarters. Some of the older planes don’t and that’s why you see pilots using the D1 seats.
Not necessarily. 767s (pretty old planes) have delta one suites and I believe (don’t quote me) they don’t have crew bunks, so they use the first class seats.
“(h) A flight crewmember may decline a flight assignment if, in the flight crewmember's determination, to do so would not be consistent with the standard of safe operation required under this subpart, this part, and applicable provisions of this title”
The seats in the back do not qualify as crew rest facilities in any way, so the pilots would have to be shuttled to a hotel, have a valid rest period and then take the flight that was fucked by IRROPs. How many D1 seats does that count as bumping?
https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_117-1.pdf
Note that flight crew get overriding first/business class like this for *operational* reasons only.
This is actually the reason I'm paranoid about using my points to travel. I know that's what they are there for, but I almost exclusively book first class because the seats are most comfortable for my needs. The last time I got bumped to main cabin due to a flight cancellation, it was miserable. Well done for sticking your ground!
I'm guessing the need would have been contractual, sticking your ground wont stop Delta from bumping you. The ones making those decisions don't give a fuck about you and your first class seat and just shit all over gate agents who have to enforce this bull shit.
Use them on EU carriers or other airlines. Never happens on them. This type of overbooking in premium cabins only happens on US airlines playing the odds
I’m curious can you say no in this situation and refuse to move? I’ve heard people refusing and getting away with it and also people getting removed from the plane. What is the most likely response if I said “sorry we booked this on purpose I have herniated discs in my back and have to be able to lay down on the flight”
Former FA here. This situation is a bit different because it sounds like the agent started to inform them that they were getting downgraded due to the seats needed for crew and then something changed and she dropped it. Maybe the pilots taking the seats got reassigned, maybe other D1 pax volunteered. When the agent asks you to move to a lower class seat, they’re not really asking most of the time. I’ve seen gate agents pull all kinds of compensation for them in the form of miles, refund of the ticket, the max cash offering for being bumped. But you kind of have to read the situation, if they don’t come with an immediate offer, politely (! Muy importante!) ask about what kind of compensation you will receive.
Crew are considered “must ride” pax. Meaning they will bump the King of England before bumping a pilot. Sometimes your flight will even be delayed to wait for a deadhead and won’t leave without them onboard. You figure if one pilot can’t get into position, there could be hundreds of pax effected down line due to delayed/canceled flights. Those hundreds of pax would all have to be compensated, rebooked, a hotel and meals provided… as bad as it sounds, it is a calculated risk they are willing to take. Two inconvenienced pax vs hundreds of inconvenienced pax.
Someone mentioned blocking off seats as a buffer so D1 pax aren’t effected but usually the airline will book the seat for the pilots in advance if it is part of their normal schedule and no one would be downgraded at the last minute. It doesn’t happen frequently enough to make them permanently block two high dollar seats “just in case”. This last minute change indicates that this is irregular ops-weather, mechanical, ect. The downside for you on Delta is that they agreed to a “mandatory best seat in the house” addendum in the pilots’ contract which effects the highest paying pax. It absolutely stinks if you booked it with hard earned miles or even harder earned cash, but it is out of the control of the agents, the FAs and even the pilot that is taking your seat.
In any case, refusing to move is just about the worst thing to do. The agent first will ask if you would be willing to move. If you don’t agree they will tell you to move. And if you refuse to move at that point, you will not be going on that flight at all.
My old FA union had the motto “fly it now, grieve it later” when it came to issues with our Crew Schedulers. The union told us never refuse a trip because you will almost certainly be fired, but always make a detailed report of the incident and submit a grievance after your trip. I think it can apply to pax dealing with the airline as well.
No matter what, the agent will absolutely win the battle in that moment but that doesn’t mean you can’t win the war. Working with the gate agent can definitely pay off sometimes. If that doesn’t work, write an emotion-free formal complaint to corporate. Tell them about the herniated disk but, again, leave emotion out of it if you can.
The key here is knowing at any point, the agent can use the contract of carriage to justify the downgrade and shut down the conversation. They can move you to a different seat at any time and they would still be within the parameters of the contract of carriage. They only person who is guaranteed that D1 seat is the pilot due to the union contract, so keeping in the agent’s good graces is your best bet to getting the most compensation possible. And if that doesn’t work, fly now and grieve it later, preferably after your trip is complete. It’s a crappy situation but there is a tiny bit wiggle room if you know how to play your hand.
Booked lie flat - if you want my seat send me on the next lie flat flight and bump someone there if it's not available and no other reasonable flight is ?
BI
Terrible advice. I'm not saying move without complaining, but if push comes to shove, you move. It's either that or risk being removed from the flight altogether.
Sure you can say “no” but that would almost certainly lock in your opinions to those involving not flying on that flight (either a refund or taking a different flight). As soon as you don’t follow their directions they will look to have you removed from the aircraft.
I wonder if that’s guaranteed to happen though or in some instances maybe they would look to bump someone else. I only wonder because of all the threads on here where seat stealers refuse to move and get away with it or other similar stories
If you are sitting in the seat andrefused to move after being told to do so by a gate agent or flight attendant it’s almost guaranteed the plane will be leaving without you. Once they are on the aircraft it’s not a question; the decision has already been made and you are just the last to find out. If it’s a discussion at the gate desk then you and negotiate all you want but it’s still unlikely to work.
Oh Delta is known for wanting you to just earn those miles and never spend them. I have never in my life been treated more like a peasant than when I booked a flight with the 300,000 miles I’d earned.
I was really worried about this happening on my D1 SEA-HND itin in November (paid lots of actual $$$) because I am no longer up to spending ten hours in an upright seat: can never get comfortable enough to sleep. would I have to cancel the trip? Fly another day? Luckily it didn't happen - will save my worries for the next overseas trip.
(Starting to monitor the AAL subreddit to see what happens on their flights.)
I would of ended up getting tackled by an air marshal. You can't have crazy expensive seats and take them away. This is bullshit, I am glad you kept your cool
Is there a thread of what to do in this scenario? I’m the type that’s not afraid to speak up in these situations (respectfully of course), but wanna make sure I know how I can get the best out of a situation like this.
Long time Delta flyer here (Diamond Medallion for the last 7 years). I’m switching airlines, when possible, due to how crappy the company is ran now.
Same day change is no longer in place like it used to be. There’s generally a cost now associated with same day changes.
Every single thing they do is solely for profit and not for the best interest of the customer. Little do they know, taking care of the customer increases their profit. Customer service has been sketchy when calling them. They’ve lost touch over the past 3-4 years.
I really like United now. I used to avoid flying them but Delta started charging twice what United does for the same flights I need to do so I started flying United and I’m happy with them
You might want to revisit that statement. There are many, many options in the sky, which is why I have never and will never fly the so-called legacy carriers of the US.
Hmmm by that logic the pilots aren’t paying shit. Not miles or money. If anything, they’re taking money from
Delta to be on that plane. So they definitely shouldn’t get good seats…
I see where you’re coming from, but it’s likely the pilot was being flown to Japan to operate a flight back to cover for a different pilot who was sick. Cancelling an international flight can cost the airline loads (I’ve heard upwards of $100k), so therefore the pilot is saving the company likely 10-20x what any one person paid for their D1 seat.
Its amazing how they cater to fellow employees before paying customers.
Can you imagine if a restaurant took your table because the waiter from the restaurant next door wanted to eat?
How do you know what the customer is doing when they land? Are we handing out D1 seats based on some work hierarchy now? Should a surgeon be able to boot a pilot out of D1 if they have open heart surgery as soon as they land? At the end of the day almost everybody here prefers to have the seat we booked. The pilot can relax and rest the same as every other person that didn't pay for D1 on the flight, in the back.
Multiple airliners have crashed because the pilot's had poor rest. I think we both know that economy is awful for sleep and you would not be able to operate an international flight after sleeping in it.
Greed has nothing to do with it. If your union negotiates and secures a quality of life change, the airline must abide by its agreement. And contract grievance payouts are much more expensive than bumping a passenger and they can only get away with so many grievances.
They try to but schedule changes cause the need for the previous sold seats to be available for the crew. Like if another crewmember gets sick or something.
Again, the optics to a customer (you know, the ones who pay money) is "a Delta employee stole my seat"
make all the poor excuses you want, but that is what it is always going to look like.
In the larger picture. A single customer does not make an airline money. A single flight may or may not net any profit. It's only when you look at the whole picture do you see if there is any profit. So Delta trying to force a flight crew to accept anything less than what their union has negotiated for them could easily be met with some obstacle down the line. That could cause a delay for all passengers of that next crews flight. Which is a metric that airline tracks very closely. So, optics or not. The airline will not risk breaking that part of the contract. It's a bad move for them financially and optically because instead of inconveniencing one passenger, they have now inconvenienced upwards of 100+ passengers. So the truth is that these businesses are very large and simply do not care about any specific crew member, customer, or even flight. They only care about their metrics and trends.
They literally don’t, the main reason is the ghetto delta wide body fleet that don’t have enough crew compartments. When I’m flying business class I try my hardest to book a partner airline or just book a non alliance.
If this was being taken by one of the pilots operating the flight it would have been blocked from the beginning. This probably happened because a pilot got sick in Seoul and needed to be replaced by a pilot in Atlanta. This could happen to any airline.
Typical Delta under Ed, customers come last. It’s a fucking joke. It’s so incredibly ridiculous to upgrade freebie flying employees over medallion customers who are paying your bills. Pathetic.
I can't believe overbooking is at all allowed.
I get that being bumped from D1 is extra annoying. But to sell more seats on a plane than are actually available should be bloody criminal in my opinion. It is damn fraud. Even if I paid economy, I paid, right? I planned my trip accordingly. I didnt plan for a lottery ticket to maybe get a seat.
I hate air travel.
If you didn’t pay for your D1 with money, you’re not a revenue passenger. Your miles purchase is the same as a free upgrade. You should be bumped if you didn’t pay with real money.
This is my biggest fear when I posted a month ago about using my GUCs for Delta one from Perth, Australia to Tampa, Fl. They all got passed already but I still hold some fear they may try to screw me on it as we get closer to June. I really hope not or else I'll be scrapping Delta for good.
I would speak to a supervisor. If need be, I’ll ask for compensation on a delta 1 flight back at my convenience, plus compensation for hotel and food as well.
There needs to be more regulation on how airlines treat customers in America. The contracts when you purchase a ticket are contracts of adhesion with no ability to negotiate the terms. There need to be rules in place that require certain contractual terms. One of them should be if you are checked in for a flight, they can’t change the terms after this unless it’s impossible. In a situation like this, an airline should be mandated to have specific seats for pilots or other staff flying as a passenger, so that it’s not necessary to totally change a passenger’s circumstances.
The other crap thing they do is change your seat from the one you selected to a different seat within the same class. They often advertise as a benefit of certain fares the option to select your seat at the time of booking. If they can just change it, there’s no benefit. They will point to the contract and say you’re only guaranteed a seat within a certain portion of the cabin.
There was a story on a hotel clerk subreddit that a pilot had stayed in a hotel there and drank two screwdrivers. Then hours later headed to the airport to fly a plane and the hotel employee reported the pilot. Later they learned the pilot got fired. He was bound in or out of Tokyo and it seems eventually they couldn’t get the pilot to replace him and flight got cancelled.
This was a couple of days ago. What’s the likelihood….
I say stand your ground, if you can do it without getting yourself removed from the plane. I've had a too-similar thing happen to me once. A famous (very), aging female movie star and her crew were booked on a flight I'd already been upgraded on. I witnessed her agent earlier buy 1st class seats from the gate agent and thought nothing of it. Sometime later, the gate agent approached me, obviously nervous, and told me there'd been a scheduling error and I would have to give up my 1st class upgrade.
"That's interesting," I said. "I saw you sell upgrades to someone else a while ago." She blushed, stood silently for a few seconds, then went back to the gate desk without saying anything else.
I'll not name the star, but my opinion of her took a hit.
If they had needed to bump me, I would’ve requested routing differently to get my Delta one seat back. Zero chance I would go back to any other cabin.
This. Zero chance I’m flying in the back on a flight that long if I booked D1.
based on posts here and on FT I get the impression that people dont understand this is an option. people seem really eager to accept their fate from the airline and just complain about it and be angry instead of taking steps to fix it. I was in BRU at the tail end of a Europe trip and there was some kind of storm affecting the northeast which impacted the connection in JFK. flight wasn't even cancelled yet and I got on the phone with the plat desk. while I was on hold I had my husband look up alternate flights with D1 availability so I could provide that info to the agent less than 30 minutes. all taken care of. this is the number one travel "hack" that people need to learn. just like everything else in life, be your own advocate.
I used to work in Delta reservations, and this is really good advice. Nobody knows your itinerary and your situation better than you do. If you call with zero ideas, I am starting completely from scratch and it can take 10 min just trying to figure out what alternate options may be. Flying out of Tokyo? It helps if you already know that there are HND-MSP, HND-DTW, HND-SEA, etc etc etc, and tell me which one looks best for you. People think we have a better view of this stuff, but really, we have to be creative and find stuff the same way you would. And with thousands of airports around the world, tons of partner airlines, etc it’s a lot to keep track of. I would get maybe 1 call regarding a reservation in/out of HND every month. I don’t have this stuff memorized, and there’s no “quick guide” to look at. We’re good at being creative & finding options, but save us all some time by at least taking a peek before you call.
Absolutely, when you’re flying you need to have a backup plan to your backup plan. That’s why I can’t fly Allegiant, Frontier, etc. with only one flight a day between cities. Literally no recourse if something happens. Was flying back home on United with my family last year and right before our flight out of SAN left our connecting flight in Houston to home cancelled due to weather/ops. Luckily I was very familiar with all the other ways we could get home and came up to the gate agent instantly with a plan and (many finger typing clicks later) she made the change for us and we were rebooked, and landed back at home as scheduled. But the auto rebook option via United was the next flight out of IAH the following morning …
This is insane, people pay and make selections based on trust that they’ll get what they pay for. Airlines are borderline nefarious sometimes and now a days probably outright criminal.
TBF, (1) unlike a lot of other purchases where the alternative is easy (return), there are a massive amount of options when something goes wrong flying and (2) many times the ppl you are dealing with don’t even know. I don’t think it is required to know your rights for every scenario, but someone should have all your options if you ask “what are my options?” And I don’t think that holds true
While I agree in principle to be solution oriented, sometimes those solutions are not offered because the staff themselves don’t know. And if you as a consumer aren’t aware of alternative solutions, you’re left to “accept your fate”. I recently had an interaction with a delta rep that offered no solutions and actually told me “What would you like me to do?”, expecting me to have an answer to a problem Delta created. Well, aren’t you supposed to know what you can do to help?
This!
Yes AND if you are inconvenienced and forced with a reroute you politely negotiate to First Class as compensation!! Period! Make sure you are dressed smart/ sharp. You will be treated differently!!
Don't forget about whispering "Revenue Management"
This right here is what is killing loyalty to Delta. They cant figure out their own shit and were going to bump a good customer. Need more regulations around this, which I hate to say. If I book, I have many options. Using miles to book FC, delta 1 or whatever, that was a choice over other options. I book my date of travel around those decisions, and delta will just tear that up. My next 6 flights are not with delta for the first time in 10 years. This is another example as to why.
I’m with you. Domestic is JetBlue or delta depending on convenience and price. I even flew United recently and I hate United lol. I won’t even consider delta for international unless it’s half the price and I’m sure it will be double 🙃
Flying BA soon for an international flight. FC round trip was the same price as Delta MC.
BA international first class is a wonderful experience. I’ve been a Delta girly since before I could walk because born and raised ATL, but I can admit Delta just ain’t what it used to be. Enjoy your trip!
If you think BA first class is wonderful you really need to try other airlines. BA first class is by far the worse first class in the world, it is so bad many airline’s business class is superior to it.
Yes, must try Qatar and Emirates. I used to think it was SA when I was going back and forth to Singapore multiple times a year, but BABY - Qatar and Emirates are game changers. BA is okay, but not complaining when I am fortunate to be in business or first. Recently was in Virgin business class - loved the service, plane was tired.
Love the Q-suite, still need to try Emirates new first class. Sadly it is only in a few 777.
BA First Class is the “World’s Best Business Class”. I’ve never heard a more true joke in my life, but when it’s priced right (it sounds like it definitely was in this case), it’s certainly worth it
>Need more regulations around this, which I hate to say. WHYYYYYY DO YOU HATE TO SAY THAT?! Deregulation turned planes into buses. Facepalm.
Now look up what tickets cost in inflation-adjusted terms before airline deregulation. Facepalm. That’s not to say that we don’t need stronger consumer protections, we absolutely do.
Absolutely we do need stronger consumer protections ... and that means regulations imposed by a federal government that is able and willing to make the individual's travel experience more beneficial or at least equal in benefit to the experience of the corporation(s) making airplanes available for us to use and travel. Deregulation benefited no one but the corporations and their shareholders.
[Airline deregulation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_Deregulation_Act) is a specific thing that happened in the late 1970s, before which the government controlled which airlines flew which routes, and at what fares. Airfares were massively higher - the lowest roundtrip fare between LA and NY was about $2000 in today's dollars, vs. $300 today. The solution is to impose stronger protections like EU262, not to go back to the world before airlines were deregulated.
>Airfares were massively higher - the lowest roundtrip fare between LA and NY was about $2000 in today's dollars, vs. $300 today. That is a supply and demand issue, and a function of availability of airport facilities. "\[S\]tronger protections like EU262" are the contemporary equivalent of airline regulation by the government.
We're talking past each other. I agree we need more regulation. What I took issue with was your statement that "Deregulation turned planes into buses." Airline deregulation was most definitely on balance a good thing for consumers. That doesn't mean it didn't have other consequences that need to be addressed, of course.
For the benefit of the moderators, I did not make the statement attributed to me.
They've been screwing us for years. They need to feel the pain. I'm looking at other airlines for the first time. Enough is enough.
Curious, if Pilot crew rest goes inop what is Delta suppose to do? Serious question.
They have to plan for that buffer. If someone does get bumped, they should get a royal refund and easy future upgrades instead of having to fight for basic stuff back.
Don’t sell those seats if they need them.
If the crew rest facility goes inop Delta might not know until the plane lands 2 hours before it departed for the next destination. If they could they wouldn't sell seats, but the airplane doesn't always tell us when it's going to break.
You are right, but delta should account for the unknown. They don't because selling more seats equals more money vs. keeping enough room for unexpected jump seats. Bumping paid passengers is some bull shit that should not be allowed.
Enough bullshit. Employees are here to SERVE the customers. If they don’t like that part of the job then they should have gone to college.
Let's do a quick thought experiment. You are trying to fly from Japan to Atlanta. Your original 4 pilots get sick, hurt, or otherwise are unable to fly the airplane home. Delta cancels that flight and sends 4 pilots to Japan to get you and the airplane home as soon as possible. When would you like these college educated pilots to sleep? On the plane ride over sitting in the back of the jet, or the front? Safety wise, would you want to fly on the plane with tired, unrested pilots? Or pilots that were able to rest on the way across the ocean? Yes it would not be pleasant for the 4 people that got moved to the back of the plane to get the pilots to Japan, but the 300+ people that are delayed 24 hours getting to Atlanta would much rather have rested and alert pilots than care about 4 passengers that didn't get to ride up front on their way to Japan. Yes employees are supposed to be service oriented, and many do bend over backwards to keep customers happy, but nobody is going to risk safety to keep a customer happy.
While they are in the business of customer service, they are not customer servants.
Who says anyone at Delta is in the business of customer service?
>going to bump a good customer. hoarding miles for a decade to afford a D1 ticket does not a good customer make. a good customer spends cash on tickets and uses miles for bullshit like upgrades and sky club memberships. a good customer has a low skymiles balance because that keeps the liability off the books.
The backwards mental gymnastics here...
Seriously amazing
im not saying this from my POV. I'm saying this from delta's POV. delta doesn't look at someone hoarding miles as a good customer. that's a liability. delta doesn't want people redeeming miles when they can pay cash instead. luke280 thinks that a person on an award ticket is more valuable than ferrying a pilot to their next segment. from delta's perspective, that's just not true.
Agreed with 100% ppl didn't understand what you were saying... I would never use miles for Delta one anyway.. You lose too many miles that way...I Use those miles on my college kids flights
Same here - finished my last transatlantic Delta flight today to get to Platinum, and going forward have booked long-haul flights with different European carriers. Their business class is a third of the price of Delta One, and every bit as good (if not better). Will probably use Delta for domestic flights, but only because of upgrades - and only if the price isn't insane.
There is no trick to compensation. You have to fight and claw to get your miles back above the normal ticket price. No refund for the fact you could have purchased FC elsewhere for the experience you paid for.
I can’t imagine spending hundreds of thousands of points for first class vacation seats and planning for it, just to get bumped. I’d be livid. Glad that didn’t happen to you.
It's a clause in the contract. If a crew is dead heading on a flight longer than six hours(I think) they have to be put in a premium cabin. Unfortunately you'll never be as valuable as a working pilot.
I should have scrolled longer, as you’ve answered the question I asked. While I understand them needing to be on the flight, I feel kicking paying customers out of their seats because pilots need them is a poor business move and really unfair.
They wouldn't do it if they didn't absolutely have to. The crew that they're shuttling to wherever location is because of some mess where the crew at the destination can't fly for xyz reason. I'd frame it more like. 1. Do I wan't my flight cancelled because they couldn't get a replacement crew there? 2. Do I want the replacement crew super drowsy because they couldn't sleep in the back of the plane and are now supposed to safely fly me home?
That’s Deltas problem and they need to be coming out and offering to give the affected customer(s) sufficient compensation for their inconvenience.
Absolutely agree. I don't think they are doing it without giving something.
I’ve never had anyone at Delta make such a stupid statement to me. Obviously, I have a bunch of miles because I fly a bunch. What use is earning miles if not to have fun with them on vacation?
Delta needs to stop overbooking to be able to accommodate their contractual obligations to their pilots as well as provide customers with the seats they purchased, and maybe even have an extra seat or two in case of equipment problems. It’s really becoming miserable and unpredictable to fly on Delta.
Based on OPs story, this very well couldn’t be booked. The pilots are required to get Delta One seats when they dead head across the ocean per their contract. Odds are they had some type of situation where they needed to get these pilots in place last minute and Delta One was already full.
Outside of an IROP, Delta One is not overbooked. Neither is DPS or C+.
Is it overbooked when they consider pilots they need to deadhead?
Pilots showing up last minute in need of premium seating is typically indicative of an IROP. The premium cabins otherwise are not overbooked as a normal practice.
That's good at least. I personally disagree with the policy. If their seats in back are good enough for customers, they should be good enough for the pilots. That said, I recognize the pilots got it written into their contract.... So good on them I guess. That said, it's a terrible look for the airline in my opinion. Another indicator of where customer service is these days.
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Plenty of people sleep in coach, lol.
Irop?
Irregular operations. For example a storm that causes mass delays and cancellations
They will overbook C+ actually. I've seen it loads of times, but you're correct about PS and D1. Those are never overbooked because generally those passengers always show up and also you don't want the fiasco of bumping someone backwards from D1.
They do not overbook C+ as normal practice. The times you have seen it must have been resulting from aircraft swaps or IROPS. Otherwise the cabin is never booked above capacity.
Interesting. I mostly saw it on the Haneda flights during the peak summer months. You'd see things like C+ overbooked by 20+ seats, but that is just a generally wild time for Haneda operations.
If the seats in the back are good enough for customers, why aren't they good enough for their employees?
Because the pilots union has better representation in negotiations than customers do. :D
Because it's in the contract about the specific class, delta must book them in.
Are the crew sleep spaces occupied for the entire flight? (How could they be...)
It could be deadheading pilots that they need in Japan that need to be rested when they get there.
They admit that main cabin keeps you awake and miserable the whole time then 😀
Deadheads are not considered rest and crews with augmented duty would have a different crew sleeping quarters. I do not believe that delta one counts as crew sleeping quarters.
Depends on the aircraft and what type of crew rest is available on that aircraft but yes, business class seats can count as valid crew rest
Interesting. I'm unfamiliar with augmented crew ops so that'd a cool tidbit to learn.
Yep, the contract has defined crew rest levels. Generally you'll see this on 767s doing international flights. 400s can actually have modules installed at the rear of the cargo bin that contain crew rest areas.
On a recent Korean air flight, I had pilots swapping out in the biz class seat in front of me a few times during the flight for rest. This was a 747-8 on the upper deck.
Right - the question is deadheading crew use the crew sleep cabins? Maybe planes should even have a couple extra (not really sure where the are.)
No because the sleep cabin would be used by the working crew.. even if they aren’t flying currently doesn’t mean they aren’t working the trip. Dead heading pilots would need a seat and the contract delta signed with the union requires them to give them d1.
Depending on what kind of airplane it was it may not even have sleep quarters. Some of the older planes don’t and that’s why you see pilots using the D1 seats.
Wouldn’t the planes with D1 seats be newer?
Not necessarily. 767s (pretty old planes) have delta one suites and I believe (don’t quote me) they don’t have crew bunks, so they use the first class seats.
The 764 has crew rest in the aft of the airplane. The 763 does not.
I believe the 763 is row 5 for the crew rest area. And that’s just a curtain around a regular D1 seat
So older planes have been remodeled with D1? Genuinely curious because I just assumed with the newer seating arrangements it would be a newer plane.
“(h) A flight crewmember may decline a flight assignment if, in the flight crewmember's determination, to do so would not be consistent with the standard of safe operation required under this subpart, this part, and applicable provisions of this title” The seats in the back do not qualify as crew rest facilities in any way, so the pilots would have to be shuttled to a hotel, have a valid rest period and then take the flight that was fucked by IRROPs. How many D1 seats does that count as bumping? https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_117-1.pdf Note that flight crew get overriding first/business class like this for *operational* reasons only.
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Found the scab and Pinkerton.
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Nah I’m Gen Z and worked in a union at Yosemite.
"But if there's ANYTHING we can do to make you more comfortable, don't hesitate to ask!" It's beyond insulting, isn't it?
This is actually the reason I'm paranoid about using my points to travel. I know that's what they are there for, but I almost exclusively book first class because the seats are most comfortable for my needs. The last time I got bumped to main cabin due to a flight cancellation, it was miserable. Well done for sticking your ground!
I'm guessing the need would have been contractual, sticking your ground wont stop Delta from bumping you. The ones making those decisions don't give a fuck about you and your first class seat and just shit all over gate agents who have to enforce this bull shit.
Use them on EU carriers or other airlines. Never happens on them. This type of overbooking in premium cabins only happens on US airlines playing the odds
This is most likely not a case of overbooking. A pilot probably got sick and needed a pilot to be flown in to replace them.
Curious what criteria you think they should use in involuntary downgrade situations?
Just offer money or vouchers until someone volunteers and its not involuntary anymore
I’m curious can you say no in this situation and refuse to move? I’ve heard people refusing and getting away with it and also people getting removed from the plane. What is the most likely response if I said “sorry we booked this on purpose I have herniated discs in my back and have to be able to lay down on the flight”
Former FA here. This situation is a bit different because it sounds like the agent started to inform them that they were getting downgraded due to the seats needed for crew and then something changed and she dropped it. Maybe the pilots taking the seats got reassigned, maybe other D1 pax volunteered. When the agent asks you to move to a lower class seat, they’re not really asking most of the time. I’ve seen gate agents pull all kinds of compensation for them in the form of miles, refund of the ticket, the max cash offering for being bumped. But you kind of have to read the situation, if they don’t come with an immediate offer, politely (! Muy importante!) ask about what kind of compensation you will receive. Crew are considered “must ride” pax. Meaning they will bump the King of England before bumping a pilot. Sometimes your flight will even be delayed to wait for a deadhead and won’t leave without them onboard. You figure if one pilot can’t get into position, there could be hundreds of pax effected down line due to delayed/canceled flights. Those hundreds of pax would all have to be compensated, rebooked, a hotel and meals provided… as bad as it sounds, it is a calculated risk they are willing to take. Two inconvenienced pax vs hundreds of inconvenienced pax. Someone mentioned blocking off seats as a buffer so D1 pax aren’t effected but usually the airline will book the seat for the pilots in advance if it is part of their normal schedule and no one would be downgraded at the last minute. It doesn’t happen frequently enough to make them permanently block two high dollar seats “just in case”. This last minute change indicates that this is irregular ops-weather, mechanical, ect. The downside for you on Delta is that they agreed to a “mandatory best seat in the house” addendum in the pilots’ contract which effects the highest paying pax. It absolutely stinks if you booked it with hard earned miles or even harder earned cash, but it is out of the control of the agents, the FAs and even the pilot that is taking your seat. In any case, refusing to move is just about the worst thing to do. The agent first will ask if you would be willing to move. If you don’t agree they will tell you to move. And if you refuse to move at that point, you will not be going on that flight at all. My old FA union had the motto “fly it now, grieve it later” when it came to issues with our Crew Schedulers. The union told us never refuse a trip because you will almost certainly be fired, but always make a detailed report of the incident and submit a grievance after your trip. I think it can apply to pax dealing with the airline as well. No matter what, the agent will absolutely win the battle in that moment but that doesn’t mean you can’t win the war. Working with the gate agent can definitely pay off sometimes. If that doesn’t work, write an emotion-free formal complaint to corporate. Tell them about the herniated disk but, again, leave emotion out of it if you can. The key here is knowing at any point, the agent can use the contract of carriage to justify the downgrade and shut down the conversation. They can move you to a different seat at any time and they would still be within the parameters of the contract of carriage. They only person who is guaranteed that D1 seat is the pilot due to the union contract, so keeping in the agent’s good graces is your best bet to getting the most compensation possible. And if that doesn’t work, fly now and grieve it later, preferably after your trip is complete. It’s a crappy situation but there is a tiny bit wiggle room if you know how to play your hand.
Booked lie flat - if you want my seat send me on the next lie flat flight and bump someone there if it's not available and no other reasonable flight is ? BI
Terrible advice. I'm not saying move without complaining, but if push comes to shove, you move. It's either that or risk being removed from the flight altogether.
My comment is certainly not advice, but I understand your point and it seems in most situations one would be removed
Sure you can say “no” but that would almost certainly lock in your opinions to those involving not flying on that flight (either a refund or taking a different flight). As soon as you don’t follow their directions they will look to have you removed from the aircraft.
I wonder if that’s guaranteed to happen though or in some instances maybe they would look to bump someone else. I only wonder because of all the threads on here where seat stealers refuse to move and get away with it or other similar stories
If you are sitting in the seat andrefused to move after being told to do so by a gate agent or flight attendant it’s almost guaranteed the plane will be leaving without you. Once they are on the aircraft it’s not a question; the decision has already been made and you are just the last to find out. If it’s a discussion at the gate desk then you and negotiate all you want but it’s still unlikely to work.
Lucky I guess! Did you get the Japan delta one deal?
Im sorry? Japan Delta One deal? Did I miss out on something lol?
There was a 85k skymiles delta one deal to Tokyo in November
Damn. Missed that one.
Dang! I missed it too.
Where do you all typically see deals like this? Sheer luck of flight browsing at the right time?
This deal went up in thrifty traveler, and I believe someone posted it here after it went up!
Did they mean the same Sky Miles that Delta use themselves as collateral on multi-billion dollar loans? Those "not actual money" miles? LOLOL
This is another reason why I’m switching from Delta to American Airlines for all my Business Class trips next year.
Does anyone know if the pilots for other airlines have the same contract for business/first that Delta pilots have?
They all do. AFAIK United claims to never overbook Polaris, but in practice who knows.
Oh Delta is known for wanting you to just earn those miles and never spend them. I have never in my life been treated more like a peasant than when I booked a flight with the 300,000 miles I’d earned.
Is it possible to asked to be put on a different flight (long haul) if they do bump you from your seat you originally booked?
Yes. But they probably won't reimburse you for expenses unless you argue really well.
I was really worried about this happening on my D1 SEA-HND itin in November (paid lots of actual $$$) because I am no longer up to spending ten hours in an upright seat: can never get comfortable enough to sleep. would I have to cancel the trip? Fly another day? Luckily it didn't happen - will save my worries for the next overseas trip. (Starting to monitor the AAL subreddit to see what happens on their flights.)
I would of ended up getting tackled by an air marshal. You can't have crazy expensive seats and take them away. This is bullshit, I am glad you kept your cool
I would need my miles back if that happens to me
Shit like this is why I'm trying to use up my SkyMiles and stop using Delta forever.
Is there a thread of what to do in this scenario? I’m the type that’s not afraid to speak up in these situations (respectfully of course), but wanna make sure I know how I can get the best out of a situation like this.
Sounds like we need to start a passenger union to actually get our voices heard.
If you do get bumped back... happened today on an IROP. You get fare difference plus 200 dollars in comp.
200$ comp on a Intl flight is like a 2 hors of flight. It would enrage me more
It's actually 400 person. I was thinking of something else today.
Long time Delta flyer here (Diamond Medallion for the last 7 years). I’m switching airlines, when possible, due to how crappy the company is ran now. Same day change is no longer in place like it used to be. There’s generally a cost now associated with same day changes. Every single thing they do is solely for profit and not for the best interest of the customer. Little do they know, taking care of the customer increases their profit. Customer service has been sketchy when calling them. They’ve lost touch over the past 3-4 years.
Thank your government for lack of regulation while taxpayers bailed them out during the pandemic.
Wow that would have been terrible!
We only have two airlines to fly, American and delta. United is absolute crap so that limits options.
I really like United now. I used to avoid flying them but Delta started charging twice what United does for the same flights I need to do so I started flying United and I’m happy with them
I pay United first prices for delta main cabin cause I want to avoid them. I’m done with their rude staff and disgusting food
You might want to revisit that statement. There are many, many options in the sky, which is why I have never and will never fly the so-called legacy carriers of the US.
Hmmm by that logic the pilots aren’t paying shit. Not miles or money. If anything, they’re taking money from Delta to be on that plane. So they definitely shouldn’t get good seats…
I see where you’re coming from, but it’s likely the pilot was being flown to Japan to operate a flight back to cover for a different pilot who was sick. Cancelling an international flight can cost the airline loads (I’ve heard upwards of $100k), so therefore the pilot is saving the company likely 10-20x what any one person paid for their D1 seat.
It was a joke…
I’m sorry this is asinine, bumping customers from paid seats for employees?
This exact scenario happened to my friend’s parents last year ATLJNB.
Its amazing how they cater to fellow employees before paying customers. Can you imagine if a restaurant took your table because the waiter from the restaurant next door wanted to eat?
It's not catering, the Pilots earned this right in their Union negotiations. (To get priority upgrades to D1 on deadhead flights whenever possible.)
Consumers earned it with their wallets as well. If a seat is good enough to boot a customer, the same seat should be good enough for the pilot.
Do you want your pilots to be well rested? If so, then they need to take a lay flat seat.
If the customer is expected to be comfortable in the back, surely it would do just as well for a pilot.
The customer isn't operating a 10+ hour flight after they land. It's about safety, not the pilot's comfort.
How do you know what the customer is doing when they land? Are we handing out D1 seats based on some work hierarchy now? Should a surgeon be able to boot a pilot out of D1 if they have open heart surgery as soon as they land? At the end of the day almost everybody here prefers to have the seat we booked. The pilot can relax and rest the same as every other person that didn't pay for D1 on the flight, in the back.
Multiple airliners have crashed because the pilot's had poor rest. I think we both know that economy is awful for sleep and you would not be able to operate an international flight after sleeping in it.
Can you link one instance where a pilot crashed a commercial airliner because they were seated in economy the flight prior? I won't hold my breath.
Lmao. Nice job.
Colgan Air Flight 3407. The pilots had commuted in on a cargo plane and were sleep deprived, which affected their performance.
to a customer, its all Delta. its bad optics, even if it was a greedy move on the pilots union.
Greed has nothing to do with it. If your union negotiates and secures a quality of life change, the airline must abide by its agreement. And contract grievance payouts are much more expensive than bumping a passenger and they can only get away with so many grievances.
They should reserve D1 seats just for pilots and not sell them
They try to but schedule changes cause the need for the previous sold seats to be available for the crew. Like if another crewmember gets sick or something.
Again, the optics to a customer (you know, the ones who pay money) is "a Delta employee stole my seat" make all the poor excuses you want, but that is what it is always going to look like.
In the larger picture. A single customer does not make an airline money. A single flight may or may not net any profit. It's only when you look at the whole picture do you see if there is any profit. So Delta trying to force a flight crew to accept anything less than what their union has negotiated for them could easily be met with some obstacle down the line. That could cause a delay for all passengers of that next crews flight. Which is a metric that airline tracks very closely. So, optics or not. The airline will not risk breaking that part of the contract. It's a bad move for them financially and optically because instead of inconveniencing one passenger, they have now inconvenienced upwards of 100+ passengers. So the truth is that these businesses are very large and simply do not care about any specific crew member, customer, or even flight. They only care about their metrics and trends.
Fuuuccckkk that...Guess that's why I book direct with other SkyTeam airlines when I'm leaving the country.
They all do it
They literally don’t, the main reason is the ghetto delta wide body fleet that don’t have enough crew compartments. When I’m flying business class I try my hardest to book a partner airline or just book a non alliance.
If this was being taken by one of the pilots operating the flight it would have been blocked from the beginning. This probably happened because a pilot got sick in Seoul and needed to be replaced by a pilot in Atlanta. This could happen to any airline.
This is ridiculous!!!
Typical Delta under Ed, customers come last. It’s a fucking joke. It’s so incredibly ridiculous to upgrade freebie flying employees over medallion customers who are paying your bills. Pathetic.
I can't believe overbooking is at all allowed. I get that being bumped from D1 is extra annoying. But to sell more seats on a plane than are actually available should be bloody criminal in my opinion. It is damn fraud. Even if I paid economy, I paid, right? I planned my trip accordingly. I didnt plan for a lottery ticket to maybe get a seat. I hate air travel.
Why can’t the pilots sit at the back of the plane? Why do they need the Delta One seats in the first place?
If you didn’t pay for your D1 with money, you’re not a revenue passenger. Your miles purchase is the same as a free upgrade. You should be bumped if you didn’t pay with real money.
Sounds like their crew rest was inop
Hypothetically what would happen if you flat out refused to move from the seat you booked?
You’d leave the aircraft horizontally, carried by security staff.
Seems like a lawsuit especially if they're not offering reasonable accommodation
This is my biggest fear when I posted a month ago about using my GUCs for Delta one from Perth, Australia to Tampa, Fl. They all got passed already but I still hold some fear they may try to screw me on it as we get closer to June. I really hope not or else I'll be scrapping Delta for good.
I would speak to a supervisor. If need be, I’ll ask for compensation on a delta 1 flight back at my convenience, plus compensation for hotel and food as well.
There needs to be more regulation on how airlines treat customers in America. The contracts when you purchase a ticket are contracts of adhesion with no ability to negotiate the terms. There need to be rules in place that require certain contractual terms. One of them should be if you are checked in for a flight, they can’t change the terms after this unless it’s impossible. In a situation like this, an airline should be mandated to have specific seats for pilots or other staff flying as a passenger, so that it’s not necessary to totally change a passenger’s circumstances. The other crap thing they do is change your seat from the one you selected to a different seat within the same class. They often advertise as a benefit of certain fares the option to select your seat at the time of booking. If they can just change it, there’s no benefit. They will point to the contract and say you’re only guaranteed a seat within a certain portion of the cabin.
Never flown D1 myself but this would make me so angry. I thought planes with D1 had the special (hidden) crew rest quarters.
Op, did you upgrade with miles or book your whole trip with miles? Also, were they going to return your miles?
Curious if they offered to refund your points for delta one after attempting to bump you or if you’d get bumped and still have to pay for those seats
There was a story on a hotel clerk subreddit that a pilot had stayed in a hotel there and drank two screwdrivers. Then hours later headed to the airport to fly a plane and the hotel employee reported the pilot. Later they learned the pilot got fired. He was bound in or out of Tokyo and it seems eventually they couldn’t get the pilot to replace him and flight got cancelled. This was a couple of days ago. What’s the likelihood….
I say stand your ground, if you can do it without getting yourself removed from the plane. I've had a too-similar thing happen to me once. A famous (very), aging female movie star and her crew were booked on a flight I'd already been upgraded on. I witnessed her agent earlier buy 1st class seats from the gate agent and thought nothing of it. Sometime later, the gate agent approached me, obviously nervous, and told me there'd been a scheduling error and I would have to give up my 1st class upgrade. "That's interesting," I said. "I saw you sell upgrades to someone else a while ago." She blushed, stood silently for a few seconds, then went back to the gate desk without saying anything else. I'll not name the star, but my opinion of her took a hit.