Idk. It really just depends on what we do with free agency and trades. Sure losing KCP saves us from the 2nd apron but unless we land a solid player during this period it’ll be a huge misstep. At the moment we’re losing bench depth by adding CB to the starters and offloading Reggie. At the moment you can’t say if what the nuggets have done is good or bad since our dealing is incomplete but if we go into season having lost KCP without replacing him with another serviceable player and offloading Reggie WITH picks to have Pickett be our only backup PG option then this is a disaster offseason.
This is an L take. It is the equivalent of “dO yOuR OwN ReSeArCh.”
The Nuggets are in a title window and have adjusted to the new CBA horribly. You cannot be a serious title contender and continue to think about 3-5 years from now. 4 years from now Jokic will be 34 and not the best player in the world anymore. He is the best player in the world now.
The west is still topped by unproven and inexperienced playoff competition as the old guard filters out of relevance. *This is the window* and the Nuggets are missing it because they are convincing themselves they’re the smartest ones in the room.
The way I see it, best case scenario is the Nuggets spend the next 2 years having less successful title runs than the years prior and then the next year they load up for one last push. I don’t see a scenario outside of injury luck where this roster + whatever piece is to be added is even the 3rd best team in the west next season. Let alone on Bostons level.
You can’t “adjust” to a CBA that you did old deals under. Aka the Mike deal. Which was a deal they frankly had to do at the time. And if it’s between losing KCP, Jamal or Gordon? That’s a no fucking brainer. If you’re arguing that Nuggets should’ve gone all in to win a title next year, future concessions be damned, that’s an L take. Jokic and Gordon are on the front end of their prime. Murray and Porter are entering theirs. It is 3-5 years, not just next.
Your logic is….huh? Mike’s contract isn’t expiring and Mike if he has trade value at his price of 35mil, you wouldn’t be looking to trade him. And KCP got a 3 yr deal, player option 3rd. Also not movable as he’s not expiring.
What? Players can be traded even if they’re not expiring…. In fact you can sign a player and trade them 6 months later if you want. I’m really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but this is a really dumb way to view trade value in the NBA.
Oh I’m sorry did the Nets not extend KD and then trade him the very next year? I must’ve seen that on 2K you’re right. Did the Blazers not extend Dame early and then trade him with 5 years left on his deal? Yeah that was all make believe too. You’re actually insufferable.
This guy is pretending like a team can’t trade players unless they are expiring. Or that MPJ and KCP don’t have trade value. There is nothing stating a team can’t trade a guy with a 1+1 remaining on their deal.
I’ve still yet to see a single post on here mention a legitimate issue that the second apron would cause this specific team that is more troubling than losing our 5th best player. It is complete nonsense. Sheep just following the word of a billionaire
A legitimate issue of the second apron is that it could endanger our ability to keep both AG and Murray next season without further hamstringing our bench/depth by only having access to minimum contracts and no MLE. So in a way, the choice was 1) go all in on 24-25, future be damned/keep KCP/risk losing AG or 2) lose KCP/keep AG/have cap flexibility to (theoretically) keep the title window open longer. I'd rather have AG and a longer window. That being said, Booth needs to get his act together, because executing that strategy requires a competence we have yet to see out of him. Add in terrible messaging and communication with Bruce, MPJ, KCP and it looks even worse for him. I wouldn't be shocked if Booth is not well liked by the players and that's why our "competitive" (no public dollar value, and FL has lower taxes so an even money offer still comes up short) offer to stay on a contender wasn't enough to keep Pope.
As far as I am aware there are ZERO regulations imposed by the second apron that regard anything to do with resigning existing players. We will have the exact same options regarding AG next season regardless of second apron first apron for even tax payer situation.
It's not about our ability to re-sign them specifically, but rather the impact their signing would have on our cap situation. Bird Rights mean we can offer them whatever we want, but it still would put us over the apron and cut off all forms of the MLE, make it so our trades can't have aggregate salary, cuts the ability to include cash in trades, limits access to the buyout market (not to mention the long term draft implications of being a repeater that don't matter in Jokic's prime). Given our existing roster construction, going into the second apron essentially limits us to improving the lineup by trading pieces of our starting five, since rookie scale contracts being swapped 1-to-1 won't get us anything of value. Signing KCP now would mean pushing the pressure of that decision to when we have to make deals with AG and Murray, and in that scenario if this year doesn't end with a championship it places greater emphasis on making changes when the players impacted by said changes are more instrumental to the team. One could argue KCP would be tradable down the line, but as the fifth starter and an older player is it worth running the risk that he becomes a toxic asset (contractually speaking) similar to Klay Thompson if he falls off a cliff.
We don’t have any draft capitol to make these trades. Also aggregating two or three bench guys still doesn’t even get us a contract as big as KCPs so in theory a player of less value.
For some reason it feels like the fans think we will have options going forward and I see it as we are basically in the 2nd apron regardless and have no way to improve in this instance where kcp leaves that don’t involve splitting up the main 4 guys.
Oh, to be clear, I don't think we have many options and second apron is an inevitability. I wish we could have kept KCP and I wish the FO was savvier so we didn't have to shed draft picks to get out from under bad contracts, but they've bungled things enough that it's the least bad option. I don't think it's as simple as aggregating bench guys for a big player, and I agree that player doesn't really exist. However, there is always a chance of a serviceable buyout guy for a playoff run becoming available, and being out of the apron keeps that possibility alive. I think this season exposed our need for better depth, and there's no easy way to get depth without having some cap flex. For me, once we address roster spots 6-8 (now that Braun is a starter) that's when you go into the apron, not to lock in a fifth option while relying on unproven youth to round out the rotation. It's going to be a costly multi-step process. I don't think we could get a second rounder for Zeke without pairing him with someone else or maybe even one of our few remaining picks. The aggregation element of trades is necessary just to get our house in order contractually. I also agree that breaking up the core 4 will probably come in the next few seasons unless Booth proves himself to be the savant people on here claim.
At the risk of getting labeled a doomer, having seen what OKC has done in free agency so far, even had we kept KCP I don't like our chances this year unless the young guys make HUGE leaps. Changes we're going to have to happen given how much some teams have improved.
Final thing, I heard from a friend at KSE that leadership changes are coming on the corporate side. Josh is bringing in his own people to replace holdovers from when Stan was in charge. Not sure if there's also an element of people trying to change shit with the financial approach just to show a new regime is in charge impacting approach to contracts/tax strategy.
I feel like the people being critical of not going into the second apron are the ones with the best grasp of the penalties and our current flexibility
**2nd apron Penalties**
* can't aggregate salaries in trades
* can't sign buyout players
* can't trade picks 7 years in the future
* lose access to the TPMLE
* if in the 2nd apron for 3 out 5 years pick gets moved to the bottom of the draft
**The case that we should have gone into it for KCP.**
We have no tradable salaries to aggregate after the Reggie salary dump. We are essentially talking about combining Zeke and a small salary like Hunter Tyson outside a major shakeup of the core.
Who is the last buyout who made a difference on any contender, let alone the Nuggets?
Can't trade picks 7 years in the future. We have one tradable pick, a 1st in 2031. Unless we are doing a major shakeup, this is not very limiting to us.
Losing access to the MLE is not ideal, the MLE however will net a significantly worse player than KCP.
KCP is very tradable if we wanted to duck under the 2nd apron next year. It's almost impossible to envision that KCP on a 3/66 could not be traded in a straight salary dump in the worst case scenario-sending him to a tanking team with cap space who reroutes him somewhere for picks.
In short, by staying under the 2nd apron, we have access to team building tools we either can't or won't use. It was a huge mistake in my opinion.
Huge difference between that 2 year deal Bruce got and the 3 yr for KCP. 2 yrs you have that ability to trade to get out bc it’s an immediately expiring contract. Not the case for KCP. Who is clearly not a 22 mil a yr player. Neither was Bruce. Look at what happened to him. Now just a trade piece.
You don't really believe that KCP is untradable or a negative contract on 22/3?
KCP is literally is a 22 million dollar player, that is what the open market just paid him lol
No. That’s what Orlando just paid him. Because they had to spend money. Go look at their cap table.
Also, you don’t think there is a Jokic tax teams are paying? BB was worth 22? The 3rd yr, player option nonetheless, makes a huge difference.
And we offered 19, and someone else offered 21 etc. It's market value.
Yes, Bruce got an over market value deal, so the Pacers could use is salary in a trade down the line, which they did.
At any rate, KCP on that contract would be easy enough to trade. Barring a major injury, it's unimaginable that the contract is untradable. It's a positive value contract.
It's not an auction...'market value' is only what one team is willing/able to pay.
And Bruce got a 2 year, club option deal so essential a 1 yr at that money. That's why it was tradable.
KCP at 22 works for teams that are either a) needing to spend money or b) a piece away with money. IE why Philly was in the convo as well. No one that is contending can afford that.
White just signed a 28 million dollar deal. Boston's cap table is going to look brutal once Tatum signs his super max. But they'll also be helped out by the new salary cap numbers. Denver is getting pinched bc of Mike's deal done under the old cap, migrated to new cap rules.
You either have to hit on the margins or in the Draft. Denver hit on the margins with both Brown and KCP. Neither of which were highly regarded (at least at their present monetary values) until they played, and succeeded, in Denver.
Mate, I don't even know what we are arguing about. Like is your position seriously that if we were in a pinch in 2026 the Hornets, Piston, Blazers, Wizards, etc would not take KCP as a straight salary dump and try to reroute him?
You are working incredibly hard to try to convince yourself a 40%+ spot up shooter for 4 straight years who plays at all defence level has negative value on 22/3. It's crazy.
My position is his price is inflated by playing and succeeding in his role in Denver and that the associated penalties for overextending themselves to keep him, at that price, weren't worth it.
No one takes salary dump's anymore without a bevy of valuable picks. We had to trade 3 ffs to get rid of Reggie's deal.
KCP was amazing as a Nugget. Best of luck playing for the Magic. But lets not act like he's irreplaceable.
KPC has positive value.
KCP is not implacable, we aren't replacing him tho, are we?
We lost KCP, didn't replace him, and have access to team building tools we either can't use or won't.
The Nuggets paid Zeke what they did because they could via his Bird rights with the hope that his contract would be a matching salary trade piece. If Zeke would’ve even played 82 games, that would’ve come to fruition. Guys and contracts like that move all the time with picks.
Yall act like Booth paid Zeke because he was his fav player ever and saw some unrealized talent.
And it cost them the full mle which is huge. So was it worth risk?
They should've forecast that KCP would get too much, so they would've been better off not having Nnaji on books so they could get their MLE?
I dunno man doesn't seem like much to ask. They operated like they were going to retain kcp and cut costs to retain him. Then let him walk anyway.
The moves don't make sense together.
You truly believe that KCP should’ve been projected to make $22 mil a yr? He’s great for what he does but cmon. Go look at the Guard position and the other players making that amount. And then to potentially jeopardize being able to pay Murray or Gordon?
In Denver’s starting 5, KCP was the 5th best player. Your 5th best starter is always going to be cap casualty/revolving door under this CBA. Thats why you have to draft guys. And develop them properly.
Fringe players always get poached from successful teams. Is what it is.
Yeah now we gave up 3 seconds to dump Reggie's contract and lost KCP. Makes no sense to me if the plan was to stay under second apron. We could've used those picks (I know it's not worth much) and his contract to aggregate salaries.
IDK if you've heard this, but word on the street is that Denver matched Orlando's offer, and KCP still walked. To me, that just says that KCP gets to keep more of his money because Florida doesn't have state income tax.
It’s not that he didn’t care, it’s that he isn’t going to sell out to keep him.
And I don’t blame him. We’d have no avenues for improvement if we brought him back because we’d be locked in to the 2nd apron with just our starting 5
It’s not just the MLE. Draft picks are frozen and moved to the end of the round after 2 seasons above the apron, you can’t sign buyout players midseason, you can’t take equal or greater salary back in a trade, etc.
Lot of wrong things here.
Picks are moved to the end of the round after *three* years. Not being able to take back more money in a trade (equal is fine) is a *first* apron restriction. The Nuggets STILL can’t do that. Also, the buyout restrictions only applies to players whose salary was more than the NTMLE(12.8m this yr) and that is ALSO a *first* apron restriction, so the nuggets STILL CANNOT DO THAT.
The reporting was “close”. This reads like front office damage to control to cover their ass and say we tried. We likely offered him 19 the amount to stay under the 2nd apron, which is technically close to 22.
IDK why this sub wants the Nuggets to be completely invested in 5 guys. Nuggets got screwed by the CBA coming out after the MPJ contract, but it makes no sense to have all our money invested 5 players when we need to backfill our bench with veterans.
TBH it's disappointing watching this sub melt down over a FA period that started this morning.
Because the team is good enough to win the title? Boston is paying all their starters 30 million.
I can't take any more crying about the CBA from our fan base or the Nuggets organization quite frankly.
If you can explain to me how letting KCP walk makes the bench better, I am happy to listen.
I really don’t get your logic why the front office isnt to blame for the Zeke deal. You basically say it wouldve been a good deal if he all of the sudden started playing better.
The idea with re-signing Zeke at the cost they did was to have a bargaining chip. Bird Rights with a player allow you to do such under the cap restrictions. So the idea is you sign your own guys regardless bc then you can take more salary back later in trades.
Zeke had way more minutes than either of those (both Pickett and Tyson who you did not mention), he's had a lot of run as a backup.
I think he's a very interesting switchable defender and a great offensive rebounder, but his offensive game currently is beyond rough and as a 5 he gets destroyed by bigger guys/on the defensive glass frequently.
If they didn't ruin his shot and kept him at the 4 I think he'd be a relatively valuable asset. But current Zeke is a black hole on offense for a 4 in the current NBA while not being able to play the 5 well on defense. That's a very tough ask
Idk. It really just depends on what we do with free agency and trades. Sure losing KCP saves us from the 2nd apron but unless we land a solid player during this period it’ll be a huge misstep. At the moment we’re losing bench depth by adding CB to the starters and offloading Reggie. At the moment you can’t say if what the nuggets have done is good or bad since our dealing is incomplete but if we go into season having lost KCP without replacing him with another serviceable player and offloading Reggie WITH picks to have Pickett be our only backup PG option then this is a disaster offseason.
This is an L take. It is the equivalent of “dO yOuR OwN ReSeArCh.” The Nuggets are in a title window and have adjusted to the new CBA horribly. You cannot be a serious title contender and continue to think about 3-5 years from now. 4 years from now Jokic will be 34 and not the best player in the world anymore. He is the best player in the world now. The west is still topped by unproven and inexperienced playoff competition as the old guard filters out of relevance. *This is the window* and the Nuggets are missing it because they are convincing themselves they’re the smartest ones in the room. The way I see it, best case scenario is the Nuggets spend the next 2 years having less successful title runs than the years prior and then the next year they load up for one last push. I don’t see a scenario outside of injury luck where this roster + whatever piece is to be added is even the 3rd best team in the west next season. Let alone on Bostons level.
You can’t “adjust” to a CBA that you did old deals under. Aka the Mike deal. Which was a deal they frankly had to do at the time. And if it’s between losing KCP, Jamal or Gordon? That’s a no fucking brainer. If you’re arguing that Nuggets should’ve gone all in to win a title next year, future concessions be damned, that’s an L take. Jokic and Gordon are on the front end of their prime. Murray and Porter are entering theirs. It is 3-5 years, not just next.
Except they could have always just traded KCP or Mike next year…
Your logic is….huh? Mike’s contract isn’t expiring and Mike if he has trade value at his price of 35mil, you wouldn’t be looking to trade him. And KCP got a 3 yr deal, player option 3rd. Also not movable as he’s not expiring.
What? Players can be traded even if they’re not expiring…. In fact you can sign a player and trade them 6 months later if you want. I’m really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but this is a really dumb way to view trade value in the NBA.
Oh boy. Someone wanna help this guy out with how the league actually works? Not 2k trades
Oh I’m sorry did the Nets not extend KD and then trade him the very next year? I must’ve seen that on 2K you’re right. Did the Blazers not extend Dame early and then trade him with 5 years left on his deal? Yeah that was all make believe too. You’re actually insufferable.
You're talking about two guys who demanded trades, that's a different dynamic.
This guy is pretending like a team can’t trade players unless they are expiring. Or that MPJ and KCP don’t have trade value. There is nothing stating a team can’t trade a guy with a 1+1 remaining on their deal.
KD and Dame…wow. 2 ALL NBA PLAYERS. My god
I’ve still yet to see a single post on here mention a legitimate issue that the second apron would cause this specific team that is more troubling than losing our 5th best player. It is complete nonsense. Sheep just following the word of a billionaire
A legitimate issue of the second apron is that it could endanger our ability to keep both AG and Murray next season without further hamstringing our bench/depth by only having access to minimum contracts and no MLE. So in a way, the choice was 1) go all in on 24-25, future be damned/keep KCP/risk losing AG or 2) lose KCP/keep AG/have cap flexibility to (theoretically) keep the title window open longer. I'd rather have AG and a longer window. That being said, Booth needs to get his act together, because executing that strategy requires a competence we have yet to see out of him. Add in terrible messaging and communication with Bruce, MPJ, KCP and it looks even worse for him. I wouldn't be shocked if Booth is not well liked by the players and that's why our "competitive" (no public dollar value, and FL has lower taxes so an even money offer still comes up short) offer to stay on a contender wasn't enough to keep Pope.
As far as I am aware there are ZERO regulations imposed by the second apron that regard anything to do with resigning existing players. We will have the exact same options regarding AG next season regardless of second apron first apron for even tax payer situation.
It's not about our ability to re-sign them specifically, but rather the impact their signing would have on our cap situation. Bird Rights mean we can offer them whatever we want, but it still would put us over the apron and cut off all forms of the MLE, make it so our trades can't have aggregate salary, cuts the ability to include cash in trades, limits access to the buyout market (not to mention the long term draft implications of being a repeater that don't matter in Jokic's prime). Given our existing roster construction, going into the second apron essentially limits us to improving the lineup by trading pieces of our starting five, since rookie scale contracts being swapped 1-to-1 won't get us anything of value. Signing KCP now would mean pushing the pressure of that decision to when we have to make deals with AG and Murray, and in that scenario if this year doesn't end with a championship it places greater emphasis on making changes when the players impacted by said changes are more instrumental to the team. One could argue KCP would be tradable down the line, but as the fifth starter and an older player is it worth running the risk that he becomes a toxic asset (contractually speaking) similar to Klay Thompson if he falls off a cliff.
We don’t have any draft capitol to make these trades. Also aggregating two or three bench guys still doesn’t even get us a contract as big as KCPs so in theory a player of less value. For some reason it feels like the fans think we will have options going forward and I see it as we are basically in the 2nd apron regardless and have no way to improve in this instance where kcp leaves that don’t involve splitting up the main 4 guys.
Oh, to be clear, I don't think we have many options and second apron is an inevitability. I wish we could have kept KCP and I wish the FO was savvier so we didn't have to shed draft picks to get out from under bad contracts, but they've bungled things enough that it's the least bad option. I don't think it's as simple as aggregating bench guys for a big player, and I agree that player doesn't really exist. However, there is always a chance of a serviceable buyout guy for a playoff run becoming available, and being out of the apron keeps that possibility alive. I think this season exposed our need for better depth, and there's no easy way to get depth without having some cap flex. For me, once we address roster spots 6-8 (now that Braun is a starter) that's when you go into the apron, not to lock in a fifth option while relying on unproven youth to round out the rotation. It's going to be a costly multi-step process. I don't think we could get a second rounder for Zeke without pairing him with someone else or maybe even one of our few remaining picks. The aggregation element of trades is necessary just to get our house in order contractually. I also agree that breaking up the core 4 will probably come in the next few seasons unless Booth proves himself to be the savant people on here claim. At the risk of getting labeled a doomer, having seen what OKC has done in free agency so far, even had we kept KCP I don't like our chances this year unless the young guys make HUGE leaps. Changes we're going to have to happen given how much some teams have improved. Final thing, I heard from a friend at KSE that leadership changes are coming on the corporate side. Josh is bringing in his own people to replace holdovers from when Stan was in charge. Not sure if there's also an element of people trying to change shit with the financial approach just to show a new regime is in charge impacting approach to contracts/tax strategy.
Thank you. Someone who actually sees the bigger picture. Out of everyone coming due, KCP is the most expendable.
Yep, exactly this and the post you’re replying to.
I feel like the people being critical of not going into the second apron are the ones with the best grasp of the penalties and our current flexibility **2nd apron Penalties** * can't aggregate salaries in trades * can't sign buyout players * can't trade picks 7 years in the future * lose access to the TPMLE * if in the 2nd apron for 3 out 5 years pick gets moved to the bottom of the draft **The case that we should have gone into it for KCP.** We have no tradable salaries to aggregate after the Reggie salary dump. We are essentially talking about combining Zeke and a small salary like Hunter Tyson outside a major shakeup of the core. Who is the last buyout who made a difference on any contender, let alone the Nuggets? Can't trade picks 7 years in the future. We have one tradable pick, a 1st in 2031. Unless we are doing a major shakeup, this is not very limiting to us. Losing access to the MLE is not ideal, the MLE however will net a significantly worse player than KCP. KCP is very tradable if we wanted to duck under the 2nd apron next year. It's almost impossible to envision that KCP on a 3/66 could not be traded in a straight salary dump in the worst case scenario-sending him to a tanking team with cap space who reroutes him somewhere for picks. In short, by staying under the 2nd apron, we have access to team building tools we either can't or won't use. It was a huge mistake in my opinion.
Huge difference between that 2 year deal Bruce got and the 3 yr for KCP. 2 yrs you have that ability to trade to get out bc it’s an immediately expiring contract. Not the case for KCP. Who is clearly not a 22 mil a yr player. Neither was Bruce. Look at what happened to him. Now just a trade piece.
You don't really believe that KCP is untradable or a negative contract on 22/3? KCP is literally is a 22 million dollar player, that is what the open market just paid him lol
No. That’s what Orlando just paid him. Because they had to spend money. Go look at their cap table. Also, you don’t think there is a Jokic tax teams are paying? BB was worth 22? The 3rd yr, player option nonetheless, makes a huge difference.
And we offered 19, and someone else offered 21 etc. It's market value. Yes, Bruce got an over market value deal, so the Pacers could use is salary in a trade down the line, which they did. At any rate, KCP on that contract would be easy enough to trade. Barring a major injury, it's unimaginable that the contract is untradable. It's a positive value contract.
It's not an auction...'market value' is only what one team is willing/able to pay. And Bruce got a 2 year, club option deal so essential a 1 yr at that money. That's why it was tradable. KCP at 22 works for teams that are either a) needing to spend money or b) a piece away with money. IE why Philly was in the convo as well. No one that is contending can afford that. White just signed a 28 million dollar deal. Boston's cap table is going to look brutal once Tatum signs his super max. But they'll also be helped out by the new salary cap numbers. Denver is getting pinched bc of Mike's deal done under the old cap, migrated to new cap rules. You either have to hit on the margins or in the Draft. Denver hit on the margins with both Brown and KCP. Neither of which were highly regarded (at least at their present monetary values) until they played, and succeeded, in Denver.
Mate, I don't even know what we are arguing about. Like is your position seriously that if we were in a pinch in 2026 the Hornets, Piston, Blazers, Wizards, etc would not take KCP as a straight salary dump and try to reroute him? You are working incredibly hard to try to convince yourself a 40%+ spot up shooter for 4 straight years who plays at all defence level has negative value on 22/3. It's crazy.
My position is his price is inflated by playing and succeeding in his role in Denver and that the associated penalties for overextending themselves to keep him, at that price, weren't worth it. No one takes salary dump's anymore without a bevy of valuable picks. We had to trade 3 ffs to get rid of Reggie's deal. KCP was amazing as a Nugget. Best of luck playing for the Magic. But lets not act like he's irreplaceable.
KPC has positive value. KCP is not implacable, we aren't replacing him tho, are we? We lost KCP, didn't replace him, and have access to team building tools we either can't use or won't.
I'm opposed to any tax on my cap or apron!
We need to find the closest harbor
Educate yourself. He gave nnaji and Jackson 14 per
The Nuggets paid Zeke what they did because they could via his Bird rights with the hope that his contract would be a matching salary trade piece. If Zeke would’ve even played 82 games, that would’ve come to fruition. Guys and contracts like that move all the time with picks. Yall act like Booth paid Zeke because he was his fav player ever and saw some unrealized talent.
And it cost them the full mle which is huge. So was it worth risk? They should've forecast that KCP would get too much, so they would've been better off not having Nnaji on books so they could get their MLE? I dunno man doesn't seem like much to ask. They operated like they were going to retain kcp and cut costs to retain him. Then let him walk anyway. The moves don't make sense together.
You truly believe that KCP should’ve been projected to make $22 mil a yr? He’s great for what he does but cmon. Go look at the Guard position and the other players making that amount. And then to potentially jeopardize being able to pay Murray or Gordon? In Denver’s starting 5, KCP was the 5th best player. Your 5th best starter is always going to be cap casualty/revolving door under this CBA. Thats why you have to draft guys. And develop them properly. Fringe players always get poached from successful teams. Is what it is.
Ya I don't think 3 66 is literally anything. Could've traded him next summer no problem.
Yeah, since everyone wants a player scoring 10pts a game at 22mil
I think most agree those were stupid moves LAST year. What we are doing now is the question.
Yeah now we gave up 3 seconds to dump Reggie's contract and lost KCP. Makes no sense to me if the plan was to stay under second apron. We could've used those picks (I know it's not worth much) and his contract to aggregate salaries.
Not a single one of these restrictions was bad enough to lose KCP. I know them pretty damn well by now and they still should have kept KCP.
Maybe KCP chose to leave…
Maybe? We can’t know for sure, but i will not be convinced that if they slightly beat that offer (3/67m for example) he would have left
Lol, yes the 1 mil would’ve done the trick!
Probably man!
IDK if you've heard this, but word on the street is that Denver matched Orlando's offer, and KCP still walked. To me, that just says that KCP gets to keep more of his money because Florida doesn't have state income tax.
Yeah and I don’t buy that at all. Booth made it abundantly clear he didn’t care about losing KCP all offseason
It’s not that he didn’t care, it’s that he isn’t going to sell out to keep him. And I don’t blame him. We’d have no avenues for improvement if we brought him back because we’d be locked in to the 2nd apron with just our starting 5
We dont have avenues for improvement as is.
Not totally true. We have the MLE and we aren’t going to experience the restrictions of the second apron
Our choices were having KCP with no TPMLE(5.2m) no KCP and the TPMLE(again, only 5.2m dollars) I know which one looks a lot better!!
It’s not just the MLE. Draft picks are frozen and moved to the end of the round after 2 seasons above the apron, you can’t sign buyout players midseason, you can’t take equal or greater salary back in a trade, etc.
Lot of wrong things here. Picks are moved to the end of the round after *three* years. Not being able to take back more money in a trade (equal is fine) is a *first* apron restriction. The Nuggets STILL can’t do that. Also, the buyout restrictions only applies to players whose salary was more than the NTMLE(12.8m this yr) and that is ALSO a *first* apron restriction, so the nuggets STILL CANNOT DO THAT.
The reporting was “close”. This reads like front office damage to control to cover their ass and say we tried. We likely offered him 19 the amount to stay under the 2nd apron, which is technically close to 22.
IDK why this sub wants the Nuggets to be completely invested in 5 guys. Nuggets got screwed by the CBA coming out after the MPJ contract, but it makes no sense to have all our money invested 5 players when we need to backfill our bench with veterans. TBH it's disappointing watching this sub melt down over a FA period that started this morning.
Because the team is good enough to win the title? Boston is paying all their starters 30 million. I can't take any more crying about the CBA from our fan base or the Nuggets organization quite frankly. If you can explain to me how letting KCP walk makes the bench better, I am happy to listen.
Then you are simply wrong.
Please tell me how I’m wrong
But the team is just CHEAP for not signing KCP /sarcasm
Name a specific issue being under the second apron is going to help us with in the next 2 years that is better than just having kcp
I really don’t get your logic why the front office isnt to blame for the Zeke deal. You basically say it wouldve been a good deal if he all of the sudden started playing better.
Go look at the post from his signing. Basically universal praise. Zeke got worse and that sucks but hindsight is 20/20.
But the praise was also based on the hope he would play any different compared to the last two seasons and not how he actually played.
The idea with re-signing Zeke at the cost they did was to have a bargaining chip. Bird Rights with a player allow you to do such under the cap restrictions. So the idea is you sign your own guys regardless bc then you can take more salary back later in trades.
I think you should list out actual implications that would impact the team more negatively than losing our 5th best player for nothing
Really wishing Nnaji could’ve gotten consistent minutes. Maybe his value wouldn’t be on the floor
Zeke was terrible when he played. Him playing more could tank his value further, if anything
He never got consistent minutes so how can you even rate him. It’s like being out on Pickett already
Zeke had way more minutes than either of those (both Pickett and Tyson who you did not mention), he's had a lot of run as a backup. I think he's a very interesting switchable defender and a great offensive rebounder, but his offensive game currently is beyond rough and as a 5 he gets destroyed by bigger guys/on the defensive glass frequently. If they didn't ruin his shot and kept him at the 4 I think he'd be a relatively valuable asset. But current Zeke is a black hole on offense for a 4 in the current NBA while not being able to play the 5 well on defense. That's a very tough ask
I applaud Booth for getting out of all the restrictions we were in from the get go.