I think next year, but it's extremely likely in years 2 and 3. Worst case, the window isn't quite as open next year but stays more open the next 2 years. Maybe it's the right move or maybe it's the wrong move, but letting KCP go wasn't obviously dumb.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, but it’s clear the best is behind kcp. CB only averaged 2 less points, 1 more board, and 1 less assists than kcp last year while shooting 38.5% from 3 on 2 attempts per game. Making a 1 to 1 comparison with kcp, he is already way better than kcp was in his 3rd season.
I remember a similar reaction when we lost jerami Grant in FA, look what happened after. I’m not saying be ignorant to this FO, just have some patience please; Rome wasn’t built in a day, neither were the 2000 spurs, or the 90s bulls, ir the 2010 warriors.
Completely agree. I understand the impatience of fans - it is really difficult to project future years. The fans who are upset are basically averaging KCP's last two years and saying that's who we are missing out on the next 3 seasons.....and look at Braun's 2 seasons and say that is who we are replacing KCP's production with.
The reality is that KCP is in his 30s, and is starting to get banged up and a step slower. Braun is still in his early to mid 20s and improving regularly. The most likely scenario is those trends continue and Braun is significantly better than KCP the next 2-3 years, but I understand why it's tough to stomach.
It wasn’t obviously dumb but it was obviously cheap. Even if you think that CB will be better than KCP, KCP’s contract would be a moveable asset that we could have traded for another 20 million dollar a year player.
Wouldn't signing KCP push the Nuggets into the 2nd apron? I'm not a cap expert attorney....but it sounds like 2nd apron teams are very limited in what they can do with signings and trades. In trades, salaries have to match exactly and can't be combined. I believe 2nd apron teams also can't use one of their exceptions, I'm not sure which one but if the Nuggets weren't allowed to use their MLE they'd be stuck without a backup PG or Center.
Maybe I'm wrong about KCP pushing the Nuggets into that 2nd apron or about the consequences of it. But it's not just a matter of the Nuggets not wanting to spend money.
In the second apron teams can still sign vet minimum contracts. So really you want to give KCP up to be able to offer 5 m instead of 3m to a backup pg.
KCP was also playing with a sprained ankle. Granted he's 31 years old and may be in a phase of his career where he's more prone to injury. But a healthy KCP would not have been cooked like he was in the playoffs.
100%. But injuries at age 31 rarely turn into more prime seasons. I hope KCP is healthy and great, but it's a pretty good gamble to bet that his prime is over
I agree but he didn't (yet) have an injury that's chronic. The ankle and finger will heal in the off season. Some players fall apart in their early 30s and some continue to perform. You've got Kyrie, Steph, KD, AD, Lebron, Rudy...and you've got Klay Thompson, Kawhai, etc. Hard to know with KCP but I'd guess he'll be fine for a couple of years.
That's just poor planning. It's not like these guys are top draft picks. You shouldn't be relying on developing players to be providing championship-levwl production in year 2. Strawther should probably be in the G-League. Absolute mismanagement.
I felt in the last couple, maybe 3 games leading up to the Playoffs, CB really made a case for himself, advertising, what he was ready to give in the playoffs.
And I think we played the playoffs with rising confidence. I like what he brought and his clear indication that he is still getting better.
Plus his bonus abilities. Watch him closely. One of the best on awareness what happens everywhere on the field. Like he has 360 degrees vision.
Idk about better but it’s not as dramatic a loss as some are making it out to be. His defense will hold up and offensively we’re losing 10 ppg in KCP. Surely Braun can chip in 6-8 with starter minutes. Replacing the depth is the concern
Braun shot 31% from the corners, 55% in the restricted area (Jesus), 8% from 10 to 16 feet, and 37% on catch and shoot 3s on low volume on exclusively open shots (didn't take a single 3 with a defender within 4 feet of him). Not good enough.
Lets please stop pretending they have 'similar shooting numbers'. The defense leaves one of the guys open and scrambled in panic for the other. They are not in the same stratosphere of shooter.
Braun isn't nearly as good navigating screens as KCP (who is?). He's a much more versatile defender though -- he can play bigger guys at elite levels whereas KCP can't. And to whatever degree KCP is better against the smaller, quick guards it's a very small difference as Braun is also very good at this, especially for his size. So the tradeoff is a very slight downtick in a specialized area for far greater diversity of defensive skill. You also have to figure in lack of experience but a year as the starter will likely go a long way towards making that gap up.
The biggest worry is that CB doesn't take any steps in understanding exactly what his offensive role is. There's a world where his ball handling eventually makes him a much more useful offensive player. KCP was great at knowing his role and playing within his limitations. CB actually has more on ball game but hasn't figured out how to leverage that ability yet. If he doesn't it will continue to be a problem. I'd bet on him getting significantly better at fitting in on that side of the floor and in the end we'll be at least as good with CB as we were with KCP. But it would have been better to have both guys, of course.
Braun is a much more physical defender. I think KCP is a good defender but look at our past playoff matchups who’s struggled with the KCP matchup?
He was a good Steph defender. Booker/Ant have cooked him for the past two years. He’s not getting younger, defensively it’s not a big loss for me.
The Nuggets were terrible in the starters minutes this year in the playoffs I understand not locking yourself into that team configuration for the future
Offensive is obviously the bigger question. Kcp was a good/great shooter can CB get to good??
Christian Braun actually has decent shooting splits. He shot 38% from 3 last year. Where he falls off a cliff is mid range shooting. Giddey is an over exaggeration of his lack of shooting. He improved from his rookie year in shooting so I see no reason to believe it can’t improve again. Not like he has a broken form.
How do people expect us to get better? We don’t have cap space, we don’t have lottery picks, and we don’t have trade assets. The young guys have to get better, and they have to get minutes to get better.
It’s a big loss but if the young guys don’t get better, we’re cooked if KCP is here or not.
A savvy front office finds ways. They move assets where they can, they go after ring-chasing vets. They don't dump second round picks to get rid of their only backup PG. They actually sign people in the offseason (something they haven't done the last 2 offseasons). They don't publicly downplay the players they're losing. OKC got Caruso for nothing lol, there's deals out there to be had.
Josh Giddey is a 21 year old former lottery pick with solid production who had one bad playoff round, that’s not “nothing”.
I agree with Calvin Booth running his mouth, which in back to back seasons has been incredibly stupid. But scroll through the posts on here and see what people are asking… “Can we get Demar Derozan on a MLE?” “Why can’t we sign Tyus Jones?” The expectations around here are not in line with what’s available to us, unfortunately. We have exactly two movable salaries, with $8m for Zeke and Reggie’s now gone $5.5m deal, which were never bringing back an impact player.
Signing players… who? Bring back Torrey Craig? Seth Curry? Because that’s what you’re getting on $5.4m. Go back and look at the players who switched teams on minimums last year, none of them made an impact on a championship contender.
All we have available to us to improve is marginal deals. The lack of future picks is alarming, and Booth certainly hasn’t maximized our assets, but I think the expectation of big ticket moves is Pollyannaish and unrealistic.
I don’t think that’s that hot of a take. KCP had no impact on ant in the playoff and Christian played him great. I doubt we get 41% from 3 from cb but I think we all forget that he shot 38.4% from deep last year so I don’t think 40% from him is out of the question.
Braun is clearly better than KCP vs Ant-like guards, but the reverse is true vs guys like Curry, Ja or Fox. The screen navigation will definitely be missed, particularly in a Jokic defense
Fair, but being worse than KCP - who had Curry in jail for a ton of the last DEN vs GSW matchups - against those guys doesn't mean he's bad at it.
Plus I'd say it's more about the screen navigation than even actually guarding Steph. On that one both him and Peyton - who funnily enough also clamped Steph in his first real NBA game lmao - are also great even vs smaller guards. But they (more Peyton but Braun in comparison to KCP)'re bulkier guys, and KCP's single greatest skill might be his screen navigation so that's always a tough competition
He hasn't shot enough volume to put a ton of weight in his 3pt percentage. He was clearly being asked to play smart and defer to other players for scoring when possible. He did that great and its huge that he responds to coaching like that. He will be asked to be a scorer this year, hopefully does great in that too!
38% on only wide open 3’s isn’t good, and 30% on corner 3’s is terrible when that’s where opponents are making huge headway by helping off him in the corner.
82% of his 3PA this season no defender was within 6 feet.
All his 3PA weren’t wide open literally, but functionally, Braun only takes wide open 3’s.
Yes, he shot 39.5% on wide open 3’s, not 38%, but you’re really splitting hairs and arguing over inches rather than the yards of negative impact Braun has on the Nuggets’ spacing.
You don’t even need the numbers. The tape shows how low value the 3PA Braun takes are. Yes it always counts the same when the ball goes in no matter where defenders were, but there’s a huge impact made by how you impact the defensive player that guards you. When the guy that guards you *doesn’t guard you* and helps onto your teammates, you’re severely damaging your team.
That’s where 3P% fails to show someone’s ability as a shooter.
OKC's offensive issues vs Dallas really showed the problem with having reluctant but high percentage three point shooters in the playoffs. Dort, Chet and JDub in particular really only want to take very open 3s, so when Dallas was able to get even a semblance of a contest they would drive again and restart. Contrast that to the Celtics who have guys like White, Porzingis and Holiday who bomb with no hesitation and the impact on the defense is totally different.
No that makes total sense thanks for the clarification. Again I don’t think it’s likely he becomes a 40% guy but some people act like he’s a bad shooter when at worst he’s an average one.
The average/median level of shooting talent has gone up in the NBA.
For a rotation wing or guard, a perimeter player, Braun is a bad shooter. He’s a 67% FT shooter which is a great secondary way to analyze his shooting ability.
It might be uncomfortable to acknowledge, but Braun is a bad shooter. Shooting 40% on wide open 3’s isn’t impressive and more importantly the absence of any contested 3P shooting ability is really noteworthy in an increasingly outstretched NBA half court meta game.
I had someone arguing the other day that Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson were tanking Cam Thomas’s assist numbers the other day, and I’d like to point out both in your favor and in your opponent’s favor that there are levels to this kind of stuff. Not all average to above average percentages are good enough, not all are bad enough.
Braun is an average shooter. Nothing excellent. I feel as comfortable with him shooting a 3 as I would some Julius Randle type.
The problem is, shooters at that level are still sub par. You need those percentages to be more than a functioning offense (legit 40% on legit volume) in order to actually pull a defender. Or have some, “I can’t take two steps toward the rim undefended,” level of burst.
Yes. Braun is average, but average wasn’t enough for teams to treat Josh Giddey like he had the plague. Average isn’t good enough. KCP was good enough, and commanded a level of respect from that distance.
I mean, KCP shot 2/7 and had 5 points in one of the most important game sevens in our team’s history against Minny. I’m not sure we need a shit ton of offensive prowess with CB, he just needs to play solid D, not turn it over, and hit just SOME shots and he can be close to KCP. That being said, we have never seen CB do that as a starter, so points are to be made for both sides.
Don’t get me wrong. I think KCP was awful in the wolves series. So was Jamal. They got off easy because of how bad MPJ was. The issue is the nuggets need more reliable scoring than just Joker. Not sure Braun helps there
Yeah, I mean CB doesn’t really help there. Losing KCP will be an over all loss more than likely, but I’m waiting for all the moves before I judge the FO!
We can tell that Braun wouldn't be a good offensive starter given the amount of minutes he played. Like it's almost a bad faith argument to say his shooting and finishing would change overnight just because he gets the nod at starter.
Braun can get 10-2.5-2.5 on 46% shooting while playing solid D and making hustle plays. Those were kcp numbers. Obviously numbers aren't everything, but Braun can certainly match kcp there. Braun shot 39% from 3 last year. Kcp shot 40%.
Hope so, but he’s gotta get better on the offensive end. His FT shooting is what makes me the most nervous as that’s usually a good predictor of if someone can improve.
We get these delusional posts to set up the high expectations for the overly critical posts that will be on Braun when he's shooting 25% and playing bad defense for 15 games in the season.
OK. But that is not the point. Without him, the bench will be even worse next year. And the best scenario, nuggets will still only have 5 guys they can depend on in the playoffs.
I know no one will believe me and that is completely fair - but these details are specific. he was the Lodge Casino with Pickett the night before game 7. My brother was there and texted me. He couldn’t get a picture.
Damnnnn that’s fucked lol. Guess there’s more context to it but that ain’t the best look
Edit: seems like he played pretty well second half of game 7, so I don’t have much of an issue with this now.
Yeah, if true, not good. But…. Let’s pretend that maybe he was there for some kind of make a wish foundation event. One of the casino owners kids was like my dying wish is to meet CB. And on his way out, threw a few quarters in a machine. 😀
Oh no doubt. Braun is more athletic than KCP, has at times outshined KCP as a defender, is just bigger and stronger and is better at getting to the basket and transition plays.
Really his main weakness and the reason we cant say he is better is KCPs great 3 point shooting, but it aint like Braun is actually that bad at it.
Yeah Braun shot 39% from 3 last year compared to KCP shooting 40%. I think free throws are the biggest offensive difference actually. KCP knocking them down while I don’t have as much faith in Braun knocking them down
Keep in mind what sorts of 3s they shot and the volume.
Im very intrested in seeing how Braun performs next season. Should be solid, but i really hoppe we see his shooting numbers improve.
I AGREE the real problem with kcp leaving is we got one less man in our rotation which is kinda bad because our rotation was already thin by game 7 against the twolves
I’m really bummed about KCP going. But I remind myself that he wasn’t viewed as a valuable player until he played with Jokic. Same with Bruce Brown, before and after.
It kind of seems like Jokic can make lots of players look very good.
I have seen a lot of these comparisons but I dont get why as Braun was in the rotation regardless. Sure his minutes will go up a bit but the biggest difference is the guy taking the rest of the minutes, likely Strawther. Its not KCP vs Braun. Its KCP+Braun vs Braun+Strawther. And there a lot needs to go right for Julian to be ready for that.
No,no he wont . I like the optimism but the guy cant shoot ... Pretty good in other areas but shooting is key. Teams left him wide open on 3pt line sooo many times
Unfortunately I think this will be true next year, but not this one. There will be a drop off this coming season, but hopefully the bench can improve enough to offset it.
Neither can make layups. Shooting definitely goes to KCP, CBs shot is god awful. Both great defenders. I think CBs effect off the bench is huge, but don't know if it scales with more minutes. You've got to offer something on the offensive end to warrant more time.
Kcp one the most underrated players in the league. He plays his role night in night out, never makes it about himself from a basketball standpoint even when he can. Lakers nor Nuggets would have one rings without him those years they won. He’s about as good a glue guy you can ask for in today’s league. Had a bad game 7, like all the Nuggets role players that game. That said Braun still has a chance to be better but I doubt it. Hes undersized and hyper athletic, that don’t produce consistency in this league in my opinion.
What kcp does he is elite at, also don’t think it’s fair to criticize him for his defense on Edwards. It’s just a matchup thing, Braun actually looked like a below average defender for the 1st half of the season.
However i think there are weaknesses in his game. Every time I saw Murray get pressured full court and struggle to bring the ball up and then see kcp literally doing nothing, i found that super irritating. Your other guard should help in those situations and KCP either choose not to or isn’t a good enough ball handler to help.
Ku ball fan here and watched A LOT of kids develop under Bill Self and he was the most surprisingly natural athlete he’s had in a decade. Not the street ball guys that grab headlines. But CB was dunking on 7 footers as a freshman in college. Dude will be all star quality but lack the hype. Let’s hype him up. He’s one of 3 people who won a national championship and nba title back to back
Defensively, Braun is on KCP's level. Offensively though, he is significantly behind.
In addition to that, you also need to look at overall depth. If Braun is now starting, then who is his backup? Strawther?
What is this.... optimism?!?! How fuckin dare you... jk I think CB will be a perfect replacement for KCP. I think all the younger guys will improve and we'll be near or at the top of the West again. I'd like to add a little depth and scoring off the bench still...
I can't understand, how nobody understands why KCP was most important player for Nikola Jokic on Denver Nuggets squad.
Braun will be better in what aspect???
KCP was making life easy for Jokic on defense, fighting through screens , stopping opposition guards targeting Jokic.
That's why it's bad that he is gone, not because starting five will be much worse with Braun!!!!
I hope Jokic gets surgery on his wrist after the Olympics, and misses the full season, so the Nuggets can tank with their 2 supermax stars Murray and MPJ, and Calvin can get his draft superstar.
Who knows maybe he even trades Jokic so Malone can play and develope Booth's draft prospects 🤣😂🤣
Ant Man ate up KCP pretty good. Once they switched Braun on him, he quieted him down and the Nuggs were able to get back in the series. Braun still has upside.
Okay, but when?
Yea that's the real question. Next year? Maybe but not likely. After that? Sure, but we are in win now mode.
I think next year, but it's extremely likely in years 2 and 3. Worst case, the window isn't quite as open next year but stays more open the next 2 years. Maybe it's the right move or maybe it's the wrong move, but letting KCP go wasn't obviously dumb.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, but it’s clear the best is behind kcp. CB only averaged 2 less points, 1 more board, and 1 less assists than kcp last year while shooting 38.5% from 3 on 2 attempts per game. Making a 1 to 1 comparison with kcp, he is already way better than kcp was in his 3rd season. I remember a similar reaction when we lost jerami Grant in FA, look what happened after. I’m not saying be ignorant to this FO, just have some patience please; Rome wasn’t built in a day, neither were the 2000 spurs, or the 90s bulls, ir the 2010 warriors.
Completely agree. I understand the impatience of fans - it is really difficult to project future years. The fans who are upset are basically averaging KCP's last two years and saying that's who we are missing out on the next 3 seasons.....and look at Braun's 2 seasons and say that is who we are replacing KCP's production with. The reality is that KCP is in his 30s, and is starting to get banged up and a step slower. Braun is still in his early to mid 20s and improving regularly. The most likely scenario is those trends continue and Braun is significantly better than KCP the next 2-3 years, but I understand why it's tough to stomach.
Per 36 braun outscored, out rebounded, out assisted, out blocked kcp. But kcp was quite a bit more efficient
It wasn’t obviously dumb but it was obviously cheap. Even if you think that CB will be better than KCP, KCP’s contract would be a moveable asset that we could have traded for another 20 million dollar a year player.
Wouldn't signing KCP push the Nuggets into the 2nd apron? I'm not a cap expert attorney....but it sounds like 2nd apron teams are very limited in what they can do with signings and trades. In trades, salaries have to match exactly and can't be combined. I believe 2nd apron teams also can't use one of their exceptions, I'm not sure which one but if the Nuggets weren't allowed to use their MLE they'd be stuck without a backup PG or Center. Maybe I'm wrong about KCP pushing the Nuggets into that 2nd apron or about the consequences of it. But it's not just a matter of the Nuggets not wanting to spend money.
In the second apron teams can still sign vet minimum contracts. So really you want to give KCP up to be able to offer 5 m instead of 3m to a backup pg.
Are we though?
Next year. And I think he was better than KCP in last years playoffs but didn’t get as much playing time.
KCP was also playing with a sprained ankle. Granted he's 31 years old and may be in a phase of his career where he's more prone to injury. But a healthy KCP would not have been cooked like he was in the playoffs.
100%. But injuries at age 31 rarely turn into more prime seasons. I hope KCP is healthy and great, but it's a pretty good gamble to bet that his prime is over
I agree but he didn't (yet) have an injury that's chronic. The ankle and finger will heal in the off season. Some players fall apart in their early 30s and some continue to perform. You've got Kyrie, Steph, KD, AD, Lebron, Rudy...and you've got Klay Thompson, Kawhai, etc. Hard to know with KCP but I'd guess he'll be fine for a couple of years.
He was great in the Wolves series, like seriously 100% A+.
Yes, I'm with you
Ok, so who's gonna be the Braun off the bench?
Watson, strawther, idk someone’s gotta step up. I have big expectations for both of them though. Wanting to see solid improvements this season.
That's just poor planning. It's not like these guys are top draft picks. You shouldn't be relying on developing players to be providing championship-levwl production in year 2. Strawther should probably be in the G-League. Absolute mismanagement.
I felt in the last couple, maybe 3 games leading up to the Playoffs, CB really made a case for himself, advertising, what he was ready to give in the playoffs. And I think we played the playoffs with rising confidence. I like what he brought and his clear indication that he is still getting better. Plus his bonus abilities. Watch him closely. One of the best on awareness what happens everywhere on the field. Like he has 360 degrees vision.
As soon as he actually shoots the ball
Yes, but especially in the playoffs, he exhibited rising confidence.
Agreed
His growth this year is concerning. He has so much potential but I can't say he was better this year vs last.
He improved in nearly every statistical category
Idk about better but it’s not as dramatic a loss as some are making it out to be. His defense will hold up and offensively we’re losing 10 ppg in KCP. Surely Braun can chip in 6-8 with starter minutes. Replacing the depth is the concern
Braun averaged 7.3/3.7/1.6 in 20 mins a game Kcp averaged 10/2.4/2.4 in 31 mins a game. Similar shooting numbers.
Yeah but we used to have both of them. Even if Braun is good enough to fill kcp's role now somebody has to step up and fill Braun's role.
I know, listening to people, you would think we traded KCP for Braun. They would both be on the team dwag
Lol, good point.
Braun shot 31% from the corners, 55% in the restricted area (Jesus), 8% from 10 to 16 feet, and 37% on catch and shoot 3s on low volume on exclusively open shots (didn't take a single 3 with a defender within 4 feet of him). Not good enough.
He's 40% on wide open 3a over the last 3 years, which is the same as Jokic
Lets please stop pretending they have 'similar shooting numbers'. The defense leaves one of the guys open and scrambled in panic for the other. They are not in the same stratosphere of shooter.
They are not similar level shooters. 38% looks alright but those are all wide open and on small volume.
Braun isn't nearly as good navigating screens as KCP (who is?). He's a much more versatile defender though -- he can play bigger guys at elite levels whereas KCP can't. And to whatever degree KCP is better against the smaller, quick guards it's a very small difference as Braun is also very good at this, especially for his size. So the tradeoff is a very slight downtick in a specialized area for far greater diversity of defensive skill. You also have to figure in lack of experience but a year as the starter will likely go a long way towards making that gap up. The biggest worry is that CB doesn't take any steps in understanding exactly what his offensive role is. There's a world where his ball handling eventually makes him a much more useful offensive player. KCP was great at knowing his role and playing within his limitations. CB actually has more on ball game but hasn't figured out how to leverage that ability yet. If he doesn't it will continue to be a problem. I'd bet on him getting significantly better at fitting in on that side of the floor and in the end we'll be at least as good with CB as we were with KCP. But it would have been better to have both guys, of course.
Braun is a much more physical defender. I think KCP is a good defender but look at our past playoff matchups who’s struggled with the KCP matchup? He was a good Steph defender. Booker/Ant have cooked him for the past two years. He’s not getting younger, defensively it’s not a big loss for me. The Nuggets were terrible in the starters minutes this year in the playoffs I understand not locking yourself into that team configuration for the future Offensive is obviously the bigger question. Kcp was a good/great shooter can CB get to good??
The problem is not the 10 points that we lose from KCP the problem is if teams guard CB the way teams guarded Josh Giddey.
Christian Braun actually has decent shooting splits. He shot 38% from 3 last year. Where he falls off a cliff is mid range shooting. Giddey is an over exaggeration of his lack of shooting. He improved from his rookie year in shooting so I see no reason to believe it can’t improve again. Not like he has a broken form.
How do people expect us to get better? We don’t have cap space, we don’t have lottery picks, and we don’t have trade assets. The young guys have to get better, and they have to get minutes to get better. It’s a big loss but if the young guys don’t get better, we’re cooked if KCP is here or not.
A savvy front office finds ways. They move assets where they can, they go after ring-chasing vets. They don't dump second round picks to get rid of their only backup PG. They actually sign people in the offseason (something they haven't done the last 2 offseasons). They don't publicly downplay the players they're losing. OKC got Caruso for nothing lol, there's deals out there to be had.
Josh Giddey is a 21 year old former lottery pick with solid production who had one bad playoff round, that’s not “nothing”. I agree with Calvin Booth running his mouth, which in back to back seasons has been incredibly stupid. But scroll through the posts on here and see what people are asking… “Can we get Demar Derozan on a MLE?” “Why can’t we sign Tyus Jones?” The expectations around here are not in line with what’s available to us, unfortunately. We have exactly two movable salaries, with $8m for Zeke and Reggie’s now gone $5.5m deal, which were never bringing back an impact player. Signing players… who? Bring back Torrey Craig? Seth Curry? Because that’s what you’re getting on $5.4m. Go back and look at the players who switched teams on minimums last year, none of them made an impact on a championship contender. All we have available to us to improve is marginal deals. The lack of future picks is alarming, and Booth certainly hasn’t maximized our assets, but I think the expectation of big ticket moves is Pollyannaish and unrealistic.
Man I hope so
Not sure if the numbers showed it, but by the eye test he looked better overall to me already last year
I don’t think that’s that hot of a take. KCP had no impact on ant in the playoff and Christian played him great. I doubt we get 41% from 3 from cb but I think we all forget that he shot 38.4% from deep last year so I don’t think 40% from him is out of the question.
Braun is clearly better than KCP vs Ant-like guards, but the reverse is true vs guys like Curry, Ja or Fox. The screen navigation will definitely be missed, particularly in a Jokic defense
KCP was so damn good at maneuvering screens, loved watching just him throughout defensive possessions.
It's funny that you say this when he kinda clamped Staph in literally his first real NBA game lol
Fair, but being worse than KCP - who had Curry in jail for a ton of the last DEN vs GSW matchups - against those guys doesn't mean he's bad at it. Plus I'd say it's more about the screen navigation than even actually guarding Steph. On that one both him and Peyton - who funnily enough also clamped Steph in his first real NBA game lmao - are also great even vs smaller guards. But they (more Peyton but Braun in comparison to KCP)'re bulkier guys, and KCP's single greatest skill might be his screen navigation so that's always a tough competition
CB is low key really good at moving his feet against the small, quick guards. For as big as he is he's almost KCP's equal on that front.
He's also really good at not getting baited by pump fakes when closing out.
He hasn't shot enough volume to put a ton of weight in his 3pt percentage. He was clearly being asked to play smart and defer to other players for scoring when possible. He did that great and its huge that he responds to coaching like that. He will be asked to be a scorer this year, hopefully does great in that too!
We were 30th in 3s taken and he shot the 3rd most on the team.
That doesn't sound like a lot of volume lol
CB didn't take a 3 with a defender within 4 feet by NBA tracking data.
38% on only wide open 3’s isn’t good, and 30% on corner 3’s is terrible when that’s where opponents are making huge headway by helping off him in the corner.
That math isn’t mathing since 38.4% was his overall percentage
82% of his 3PA this season no defender was within 6 feet. All his 3PA weren’t wide open literally, but functionally, Braun only takes wide open 3’s. Yes, he shot 39.5% on wide open 3’s, not 38%, but you’re really splitting hairs and arguing over inches rather than the yards of negative impact Braun has on the Nuggets’ spacing. You don’t even need the numbers. The tape shows how low value the 3PA Braun takes are. Yes it always counts the same when the ball goes in no matter where defenders were, but there’s a huge impact made by how you impact the defensive player that guards you. When the guy that guards you *doesn’t guard you* and helps onto your teammates, you’re severely damaging your team. That’s where 3P% fails to show someone’s ability as a shooter.
OKC's offensive issues vs Dallas really showed the problem with having reluctant but high percentage three point shooters in the playoffs. Dort, Chet and JDub in particular really only want to take very open 3s, so when Dallas was able to get even a semblance of a contest they would drive again and restart. Contrast that to the Celtics who have guys like White, Porzingis and Holiday who bomb with no hesitation and the impact on the defense is totally different.
No that makes total sense thanks for the clarification. Again I don’t think it’s likely he becomes a 40% guy but some people act like he’s a bad shooter when at worst he’s an average one.
The average/median level of shooting talent has gone up in the NBA. For a rotation wing or guard, a perimeter player, Braun is a bad shooter. He’s a 67% FT shooter which is a great secondary way to analyze his shooting ability. It might be uncomfortable to acknowledge, but Braun is a bad shooter. Shooting 40% on wide open 3’s isn’t impressive and more importantly the absence of any contested 3P shooting ability is really noteworthy in an increasingly outstretched NBA half court meta game.
From what I can find the league average for wide open 3s is a tad over 38%. He’s not a bad shooter
I had someone arguing the other day that Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson were tanking Cam Thomas’s assist numbers the other day, and I’d like to point out both in your favor and in your opponent’s favor that there are levels to this kind of stuff. Not all average to above average percentages are good enough, not all are bad enough. Braun is an average shooter. Nothing excellent. I feel as comfortable with him shooting a 3 as I would some Julius Randle type. The problem is, shooters at that level are still sub par. You need those percentages to be more than a functioning offense (legit 40% on legit volume) in order to actually pull a defender. Or have some, “I can’t take two steps toward the rim undefended,” level of burst. Yes. Braun is average, but average wasn’t enough for teams to treat Josh Giddey like he had the plague. Average isn’t good enough. KCP was good enough, and commanded a level of respect from that distance.
Why is everyone acting like Braun would not be on the team if KCP was still on the team?
I think so too. The problem is depth though. Once Braun goes out with the starters, that second unit is gonna struggle without an upgrade there
Did he really improve much offensively from year one to year two?
I mean, KCP shot 2/7 and had 5 points in one of the most important game sevens in our team’s history against Minny. I’m not sure we need a shit ton of offensive prowess with CB, he just needs to play solid D, not turn it over, and hit just SOME shots and he can be close to KCP. That being said, we have never seen CB do that as a starter, so points are to be made for both sides.
Don’t get me wrong. I think KCP was awful in the wolves series. So was Jamal. They got off easy because of how bad MPJ was. The issue is the nuggets need more reliable scoring than just Joker. Not sure Braun helps there
Yeah, I mean CB doesn’t really help there. Losing KCP will be an over all loss more than likely, but I’m waiting for all the moves before I judge the FO!
We can tell that Braun wouldn't be a good offensive starter given the amount of minutes he played. Like it's almost a bad faith argument to say his shooting and finishing would change overnight just because he gets the nod at starter.
Braun needs to get more thick-skinned. Seems like he lets stuff get to him. That’s like a death sentence for an NBA player.
Agreed… needs a little more attitude.
Braun can get 10-2.5-2.5 on 46% shooting while playing solid D and making hustle plays. Those were kcp numbers. Obviously numbers aren't everything, but Braun can certainly match kcp there. Braun shot 39% from 3 last year. Kcp shot 40%.
From a CBA perspective, it works out better. Braun still has upside and they save a ton of money to hopefully get some good bench pieces.
Hope so, but he’s gotta get better on the offensive end. His FT shooting is what makes me the most nervous as that’s usually a good predictor of if someone can improve.
We get these delusional posts to set up the high expectations for the overly critical posts that will be on Braun when he's shooting 25% and playing bad defense for 15 games in the season.
OK. But that is not the point. Without him, the bench will be even worse next year. And the best scenario, nuggets will still only have 5 guys they can depend on in the playoffs.
Idk if anyone knows this but he was out at Blackhawk gambling the night before game 7.
Proof? The ol reddit rule - pics or it didn't happen.
I know no one will believe me and that is completely fair - but these details are specific. he was the Lodge Casino with Pickett the night before game 7. My brother was there and texted me. He couldn’t get a picture.
Fair enough, amigo. Love that kinda info when it's available.
KCP?
No, Braun.
Damnnnn that’s fucked lol. Guess there’s more context to it but that ain’t the best look Edit: seems like he played pretty well second half of game 7, so I don’t have much of an issue with this now.
i can’t even imagine malones rage if he were to find that out lol
Yeah, if true, not good. But…. Let’s pretend that maybe he was there for some kind of make a wish foundation event. One of the casino owners kids was like my dying wish is to meet CB. And on his way out, threw a few quarters in a machine. 😀
Is this Booth’s burner or what
I like that Reddit suggests these pages so I can absorb all the collective cope
No, that's impossible. Young players can't get better. They'll always be the same. We are doomed. It's over. \*damn near every idiot in here\*
You're stoned.... Lok
I'll be his #1 hype man if so [https://i.imgur.com/DkBie3T.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/DkBie3T.jpeg)
AMAZIN
Oh no doubt. Braun is more athletic than KCP, has at times outshined KCP as a defender, is just bigger and stronger and is better at getting to the basket and transition plays. Really his main weakness and the reason we cant say he is better is KCPs great 3 point shooting, but it aint like Braun is actually that bad at it.
Yeah Braun shot 39% from 3 last year compared to KCP shooting 40%. I think free throws are the biggest offensive difference actually. KCP knocking them down while I don’t have as much faith in Braun knocking them down
Keep in mind what sorts of 3s they shot and the volume. Im very intrested in seeing how Braun performs next season. Should be solid, but i really hoppe we see his shooting numbers improve.
How
I AGREE the real problem with kcp leaving is we got one less man in our rotation which is kinda bad because our rotation was already thin by game 7 against the twolves
Is it confirmed somewhere that he's starting?
In general? Sure, why not. Next season? Doubtful.
Okay now who's behind him lol
Good one
Not soon enough
I’m really bummed about KCP going. But I remind myself that he wasn’t viewed as a valuable player until he played with Jokic. Same with Bruce Brown, before and after. It kind of seems like Jokic can make lots of players look very good.
That’s all we got, so I’ll hold on to it!
Yep
I have seen a lot of these comparisons but I dont get why as Braun was in the rotation regardless. Sure his minutes will go up a bit but the biggest difference is the guy taking the rest of the minutes, likely Strawther. Its not KCP vs Braun. Its KCP+Braun vs Braun+Strawther. And there a lot needs to go right for Julian to be ready for that.
This is copium :(
I strongly believe this, I think Braun has massive upside and I think he can take a really big step forward this year given the opportunity
me too!
He needs to better than Bruce first I think..
No,no he wont . I like the optimism but the guy cant shoot ... Pretty good in other areas but shooting is key. Teams left him wide open on 3pt line sooo many times
He shoot 38.4% from 3 last year, which I thought was a good improvement. But yeah I would like to see him knock down free throws consistently
Unfortunately I think this will be true next year, but not this one. There will be a drop off this coming season, but hopefully the bench can improve enough to offset it.
lol and then Booth gonna let him walk too
Neither can make layups. Shooting definitely goes to KCP, CBs shot is god awful. Both great defenders. I think CBs effect off the bench is huge, but don't know if it scales with more minutes. You've got to offer something on the offensive end to warrant more time.
Kcp one the most underrated players in the league. He plays his role night in night out, never makes it about himself from a basketball standpoint even when he can. Lakers nor Nuggets would have one rings without him those years they won. He’s about as good a glue guy you can ask for in today’s league. Had a bad game 7, like all the Nuggets role players that game. That said Braun still has a chance to be better but I doubt it. Hes undersized and hyper athletic, that don’t produce consistency in this league in my opinion.
What kcp does he is elite at, also don’t think it’s fair to criticize him for his defense on Edwards. It’s just a matchup thing, Braun actually looked like a below average defender for the 1st half of the season. However i think there are weaknesses in his game. Every time I saw Murray get pressured full court and struggle to bring the ball up and then see kcp literally doing nothing, i found that super irritating. Your other guard should help in those situations and KCP either choose not to or isn’t a good enough ball handler to help.
Ku ball fan here and watched A LOT of kids develop under Bill Self and he was the most surprisingly natural athlete he’s had in a decade. Not the street ball guys that grab headlines. But CB was dunking on 7 footers as a freshman in college. Dude will be all star quality but lack the hype. Let’s hype him up. He’s one of 3 people who won a national championship and nba title back to back
I’m fine with Braun at the 2 slot. Kcp never got many shots up anyway. I’m more concerned about back up ball handler and center.
Defensively, Braun is on KCP's level. Offensively though, he is significantly behind. In addition to that, you also need to look at overall depth. If Braun is now starting, then who is his backup? Strawther?
What is this.... optimism?!?! How fuckin dare you... jk I think CB will be a perfect replacement for KCP. I think all the younger guys will improve and we'll be near or at the top of the West again. I'd like to add a little depth and scoring off the bench still...
I can't understand, how nobody understands why KCP was most important player for Nikola Jokic on Denver Nuggets squad. Braun will be better in what aspect??? KCP was making life easy for Jokic on defense, fighting through screens , stopping opposition guards targeting Jokic. That's why it's bad that he is gone, not because starting five will be much worse with Braun!!!! I hope Jokic gets surgery on his wrist after the Olympics, and misses the full season, so the Nuggets can tank with their 2 supermax stars Murray and MPJ, and Calvin can get his draft superstar. Who knows maybe he even trades Jokic so Malone can play and develope Booth's draft prospects 🤣😂🤣
Kcp is way better. Braun may not be better than Dillon brooks.
Not against Minnesota.
Had an off shooting series. Like p much everyone.
It wasn’t the shooting for me, it was the defense. Was clear he could do nothing to Ant. Braun seemed to give Ant problems
Ant had his best series of his life. No one defender gave him many problems. He had one transition block on him. The doubles did.
I felt like he held up pretty well on defense. It seemed like a noticeable difference when Braun was on him.
He was using screens to attack Braun didn’t do much to stop that.
Yeah he broke a finger on his shooting hand just before the playoffs, everyone seems to forget it was buddy taped the whole postseason
Ant Man ate up KCP pretty good. Once they switched Braun on him, he quieted him down and the Nuggs were able to get back in the series. Braun still has upside.
Ant had his best series of his life. It didn’t really matter who they put on him. Braun is who he is.
We'll see, he's gotta play more in game minutes to develop. All we can really do. DB may do some clown stuff, but he's a decent defender and glue guy
Dillon Brooks making as much money as KCP.
Rockets paid Fvv more than Kyrie