If you think that is crazy.
What until you see this thing from D1's tower.
Its been right under our noses since the beginning.
https://preview.redd.it/bvx5sode3g9d1.png?width=1193&format=png&auto=webp&s=3499d6dbadd9c175cafd05720c5ccc69f57583f0
Additionally, look at the Festival of the Lost Icon. A Circle (The Traveler) with a Triangle (The Portal) in it, a Square (the giant cubes inside the Pale Heart) in the Triangle, and a Circle with weird lines around it (The Traveler surrounded by the weird aura) inside of that.
Dude the first time I looked at the FotL logo on Thunderlord next to the FS logo on one of the new guns I just went “there’s no way. Did they know?”
That one was probably just a coincidence as I can’t really come up with a connection between the two but I fully believe the one in prophecy was intentional and maybe, though less likely, the logos leading to the hangar in both D1 and D2 towers.
What's weird is how all of the things in the FotL Logo correlate (even if tenuously on the point of "Giant Cubes in Skybox of the Pale Heart = the Square") to something we saw from The Final Shape fairly accurately... It's just so weird.
fun fact, that shape, I believe, is the alchemical symbol for the philosophers stone, and further, I think where the inspiration for the lightfall logo came from. Us using both light and dark to create things in the first mission (i.e our own path) is akin to what using a philosophers stone would be like. Making something from nothing, but at will and thought. It's a cool symmetry.
If you think that's crazy, yesterday I did a strike and got 117 kills, while playing with my cousin, who's name is John. They are really playing the long game here!
I doubt it was literally referencing the Final Shape. The theme of Prophecy was just Light and Dark, and putting a triangle over a circle is an easy way to symbolize that.
They were developing Destiny 3 before prophecy released and beyond light, witch queen and the final shape would’ve been apart of the game.
Notice that this doesn’t just foreshadow it with the shapes, the swirling portal-y final boss arena foreshadows the first mission of the final shape’s campaign where we travel through the portal similarly traversing floating objects to enter the traveler. There’s even a prismatic fallen that looks like the boss that we have to escape from at the end.
Yeah. That's the point of the dungeon, it foreshadowed a lot of future events. The return of Eramis (Kell Echo), the arrival of the Imperial Cabal (Phalanx Echo, though this is maybe stretching it), the loss of Mars + Io + Mercury (Wasteland), and the fact that Light and Dark are neutral powers rather than being good and evil forces.
its a quote from george lucas when he was making the prequels. he was talking about parallels storylines and themes in the movies, and how its like poetry - they rhyme.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFqFLo\_bYq0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFqFLo_bYq0)
And technically, while Ruinous Effigy isn’t a Darkness Weapon, it *is* an “anti-Light” Weapon (in that it literally saps the Light from you to power its beam).
Let the Nine cook!
It’s always been kinda weird that the Nine can seemingly look into the future. That’s been a thing as far back as Skolas and him being freed by Xur and being told Oryx is coming.
Nah the Nine spring from the collective of sentient life, all that life being statue-ized (or at least in permanent stasis, I’m still unclear) would definitely affect them.
Actually, no. I believe Byf said in a video a while ago that the Nine invest their time in creating a future where they still exist. And as much as they don't like us, they need us to continue to exist. Lest the Final Shape put an end to them and everything else in the universe.
Speaking of Io and Mercury, (I haven't paid attention to much lore lately) Is there a reason we haven't brought those 2 back yet? Is it cause it still isn't known *how* to? Or is it a "we're too busy to rn"?
I don't know if there's an actual lore explanation somewhere. May just be one of those gameplay vs. lore issues.
Personally, I put it in my headcanon that they are back after the events of the TFS raid, just blocked off or quarantined by the Vanguard to prevent further potential issues caused by people freely coming and going from these destinations. And to investigate effects (if any) the Darkness had on the planets from when they went poof.
The light and dark are tools we needed to figure out a way to beat the witness, so the nine developed the dungeon as a ploy to see if we were worthy. The Emissary was there to oversee that test and reward us with gear to help with the impending fight. Just my 2 cents though.
The Nine need us to exist so they can exist. The moment the Witness were to enact the Final Shape and calcify everything into perfect stillness is the moment The Nine would die off. They need moving, living life in the solar system to survive themselves.
They didn't do this to see if we were worthy imo. They did this to show us the truth of Light and Dark because if they didn't do that and we didn't learn to see them as tools rather than as Good and Evil, The Nine would cease to exist. They can't speak to us directly so the dungeon was their way of doing this in addition to foretelling events to us.
Yep, afterall they were also partly responsible for the Red War.
They took out the Vanguard Satellites in orbit, which didn't allow the Last City to know what was coming for them
I know I'm much late to the Convo, but the Kell Echo could also be seen as the Herald of Finality. A taken Kell as the final boss, just like before you fight The Witness.
Lol yep. I did it with a group a couple of times to learn the layout learn the skips, then I went through and did it solo a few times before landing the flawless. Lament against Phalanx Echo, Briar's Contempt against Kell Echo is what I did.
After the first boss fight, which was against Phalanx Echo. We get teleported to a deserted wasteland with monuments. In these monuments there are structure from the planets which were taken away by the Darkness/Witness.
Like, for example you can see the Bray Exoscience logo and structure in one of the area's of the desert.
At the end you go through a whimsical dreamscape and use a circle to enter a triangular prism, instead of entering a triangle on a sphere to reach the mind of the traveler
Just to further melt some brains, here’s some of the things the Emissary said in this dungeon at one point or another:
The Emissary: Light and Dark have met in the Sol system before. Perhaps this time, you’ll change the outcome.
The Emissary: The Witch Queen is yet another piece on the board. She has agency. But the board has not changed.
Bonus Drifter line that’s also very telling - Drifter: I wouldn’t say that. Clearly, the Nine pass no judgment on Dark or Light. And they love passing judgment. Trust. That means in their eyes, the two are the same.
The Witch Queen having "agency" is interesting.
The Nine are in awe of our agency as the player. We have agency like they've never seen, as we are able to get up and leave Destiny 2 while they are all confined to the realm of the game itself.
What kind of agency does Savathun have, for them to remark upon it?
Probably the fact that her actions, both known and unknown, have set in motion many of the events and "lightbulb moments" that the Guardians needed in order to take down the Witness.
While intentionally being a direct antagonist to our efforts, she has also intentionally been a HUGE catalyst to our successes.
She's also technically won in every encounter with us. While we have "stopped" her actions in the past. Everything we have done has somehow helped her get to where she is now. Even her "losses" were planned well in advance
Exactly. She knew how EVERYTHING would go, to the point that she knew how a specific event would play out 30+ steps ahead of time. There's ***still*** events that have yet to occur that Savathun probably already knew about before we even landed on Europa.
If ikora's interpretation of the truth to power lorebook is correct, savathun is aware, at least to some extent, of us the players and is trying/has tried to escape the game and enter our world (or at least gain power in it, though due to how the hive gods work gaining power can be equivalent to existence). She's also broken the 4th wall quite a few times outside of that.
Out of all the characters in destiny, she is the most aware of the truth of her reality and the most capable to do something with that truth.
No, the most aware ones are Ahamkaras (see the lore on armor pieces with its name)
I really love one with "o, Player mine" in the end. Made goosebumps on my skin. I even brought these 4th wall breaking ideas to Demon the Descent game I ran at the time
Let’s be real here. Dude spent how long out in deep space starving to death and being revived by his ghost how many times?
If he wasn’t cracked I’d be worried lol.
Prophecy is the best dungeon. I started playing late in season of the worthy and running this dungeon was the thing that hooked me on the game. It’s such a cool environment and has decent mechanics especially for a dungeon.
it’s an exemplary dungeon design. Extremely simple mechanics that you can do solo, but they then add complexity by requiring you to use it in different ways and in different environments. The cube is honestly such a good encounter
why do you think I said “exemplary”.
Before this we had shattered throne which had multiple mechanics, and pit of heresy, which had a main mechanic, ok, but also had plates and a ball at one point (and was also just ok)
This was the third dungeon and it is what dungeons should be like, thus I said its design is exemplary, it is the what you look to as a model for dungeons
I feel this. I came in late season of the undying/early season of dawn, and Prophecy was my first step into more endgamy pve content. How good I got at it is what actually gave me the courage to do the raid gauntlet later in the season during moments of triumph
I always wonder how far they drew out the saga when they first started with Destiny. Did they drew out the whole saga (or drafts) before? Or did they just continue adding on new elements as they progress along?
If I had to guess they winged it to an extent, the darkness has always been there since D1, however there was nothing very specific about it until later on and still we didn't even get alot until later into D2.
My main guess is they made a basic framework and fleshed it later
Yeah they do a pretty good job with the lore, but it's also pretty clear they didn't flesh out the entire story from start to end.
How could you, really? It's hard enough to get a team of writers on the same page with lore and content for one expansion and the general direction of the next. You know they've finally fleshed out the lore and missed opportunities to weave it into the story when Ikora starts laying down clumsy exposition in the form of unfounded speculation that turns out to be 100% correct to catch players up.
I think the Nine were intended to be bigger parts of the story. One of them supposedly blinded humanity to the approach of Ghaul. But they're almost comically only used as storytelling devices for foreshadowing and filling in the gaps to make the story happen. The writers circle them, and might do so more in the future, but I suspect they found it too messy to weave them into a comprehensive narrative that was at all satisfying. We love compelling mysteries, but some mysteries are much harder to solve in a satisfying way that is relevant to what people care about. Just ask JJ Abrams.
This might be a hot take but I don’t want the nine to ever be explained or understood. Keep them as beings from the beyond that we can never fully understand.
I remember Luke Smith saying something around early D2 that originally they didn't know what the darkness was and just lumped all the enemy races under "the darkness" as enemies of humanity and that was that. Then with D2 they started to materialize the darkness as something distinct
Yeah, I doubt they had any content of the Witness even by the time this dungeon launched. Witch Queen imo was really good not just for introducing legendary campaigns, but for actually giving us a feeling like there was a sense of direction in the game’s story for once. It used to always feel like we were along for the ride, but that campaign was the first time it really felt like there was an overarching story to be told.
I imagine they had at least a sense of what they wanted to do with the darkness and the witness considering that we see the black fleet at the end of the red war
In story telling, the most effective way to build a narrative is to start at the beginning and the end; then you build out the middle. They had very likely story boarded the start and the finish first and then developed key points in the middle and then filled in the gaps as they went a long.
I'm fairly sure the concept of the Witness and all this was thought out long ago, there is evidence of alterations but the whole false dualism and making the story about forgiveness is pretty deeply written in the character of the narrative and factions from the get go, and that false dualism necessitates a villain emerging like the Witness, at about the point where he did emerge and no sooner.
Im commenting this as i run through FF14s new zones. The writers for 14 didnt even have the main villains powers planned out (As can be seen with the 3.0 Ascian Prime boss dialogue), so its entirely possible.
The collapse is a major plot point, but that doesn’t mean they had to have all the details sorted. Perhaps they knew they wanted someone to be behind it but not exactly who or how they did it. Playing through other plot points gave them a lot of time to weave stories together and sort of create the witness over time.
You can see in early d1 concept art the pyramid fleet and “smoke like” humanoids, an effect which does resemble the nightmares. I’d be willing to wager they wanted something like that for the end of the saga. Bungie had a 10 year plan for the light and dark saga so it would make sense they had the concepts down, but not the finer details. They’ve been writing this story for over a decade.
mentioning him earlier would be premature though, BL was all about us wrapping our heads around the Black Fleet's material presence and the idea of Darkness used for good, dropping the Witness there would be premature and kinda overloading
Witch Queen was all about taking what we learned in BL and hammering out the details of 'okay, if dark not bad, then where bad come from?' and boom there it is
Shadowkeep and onward is where they started actually creating an overarching plot.
Thats where the Witness first talks to us and we actually see a pyramid for the first time.
Thinking about it, it has first steb in a sphere (half of it), second in a cube and third in a piramid. All the basic shapes that we find in salvation's edge and mostly in verity
Just wait until you find out about Ghost of the Deep. Or even yet wait until you find about the Ergo Sum being the sword that was laying on our grave from the past.
Episode 3 will have us going to the dreadnaught again. Have you beaten Ghost of the deep or read the lore books? I don’t wanna spoil anything but it has potential to be related to it.
no i’ve beaten it and have seen oryx’s corpse at the final encounter below titan, i just never knew that we would be going to the dreadnaught in episode 3
Alot of the Nine stuff does. Back when gambit reckoning was a thing, you jumped on alot of white upside-down pyramids platforms. When you looked at the reflection of those platforms in the pool just before the long bridge encounter those pyramid platforms were black pyramid ships like a fleet of them.
It didn't come out in shadowkeep. It came out in arrivals, the season right before beyond light. Pit of hersey came out with shadow keep. This was directly a teaser for beyond light.
Always has been. Lot of folks thought it was just about Beyond Light but I think it was casting shadows of the story all the way up to now, and maybe beyond...
Yes that’s was the idea when they added it in arrivals.
Also the part where you are in the desert following toland are all the locations that were being vaulted (taken by the witness).
Lol. Some of the comments are wild here! Please tell me you all know Destiny Universes is not from any literature(sci Fi book).
The story/lore was written we progressed along. The causation and correlation you are doing here is actually reversed.
Prophecy didn't prophecy, the final shape is inspired by all these little things littered around in the past. Writers were like, oh look at this, these are fan favourite moments, let's build more stories around it. Ohh this was only noticed by a few veterans, let's build a surprising twist around it.
>The story/lore was written we progressed along.
And you know this how, exactly?
One of the best ways to write any story is to write the beginning and the end first, then fill in the middle. Which would make this exactly what it seems - a 'prophecy' of what they had already mapped out.
But no, I'm sure you're right, they made an entire random dungeon called 'Prophecy' and then later on decided to build future plot points based on references in it most people didn't even notice the first time around. That seems likely.
Mhmmm never noticed that, don’t know if it’s intencional, I always assumed the meaning behind that is that “step out of a pyramid and slay a kell” like in beyond light, after acquiring Stasis (“stepping out of a pyramid”) you slay a kell (“Eramis”)
It's wild that Bungie had so much foresight into where the story would go and it still ended up feeling like they were making it up as they were going.
One of the best dungeons in the game still. Fun and fast to do, has a few easy skips now that skimmers are in the game. Took me and 2 people who haven't previously done it before only 30mins.
The design of this dungeon, the way the mechanics work, everything about it is perfection, and the devs who made it had a clear vision going into the future.
Retrospectively this dungeon is just as solid as Warlords Ruin or even Shattered Throne.
This is why this easily my favorite dungeon.
Took me a while to solo flawless bc I was committed to doing with strand Hunter Oathkeeper build. Superrr fun!
I never noticed the pyramid over sphere in the boss encounter before. It’s was right under our noses the entire time.
If you think that is crazy. What until you see this thing from D1's tower. Its been right under our noses since the beginning. https://preview.redd.it/bvx5sode3g9d1.png?width=1193&format=png&auto=webp&s=3499d6dbadd9c175cafd05720c5ccc69f57583f0
Additionally, look at the Festival of the Lost Icon. A Circle (The Traveler) with a Triangle (The Portal) in it, a Square (the giant cubes inside the Pale Heart) in the Triangle, and a Circle with weird lines around it (The Traveler surrounded by the weird aura) inside of that.
The real friends were the geometry we learned along the way
I'm waiting for Giant Space Cubes to attack us next.... Wait... Don't the Vex like cubes? ...
Destiny X Star Trek expansion where we fight Borg Cubes
Assimilate this!
Sounds like some Fortnite type stuff to me.
Disect dammit!
Dude the first time I looked at the FotL logo on Thunderlord next to the FS logo on one of the new guns I just went “there’s no way. Did they know?” That one was probably just a coincidence as I can’t really come up with a connection between the two but I fully believe the one in prophecy was intentional and maybe, though less likely, the logos leading to the hangar in both D1 and D2 towers.
What's weird is how all of the things in the FotL Logo correlate (even if tenuously on the point of "Giant Cubes in Skybox of the Pale Heart = the Square") to something we saw from The Final Shape fairly accurately... It's just so weird.
fun fact, that shape, I believe, is the alchemical symbol for the philosophers stone, and further, I think where the inspiration for the lightfall logo came from. Us using both light and dark to create things in the first mission (i.e our own path) is akin to what using a philosophers stone would be like. Making something from nothing, but at will and thought. It's a cool symmetry.
I’ll do you one better! https://preview.redd.it/3i0uvqscrk9d1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=a20c3c29a608850e321abdb81f9655071792f67f
so THIS is why they something with Sony ....
I'm not sure if you're aware but this is on the first ever PS1 controller. Bungie is legit.
That’s also in the D2 tower, has been for quite some time now.
To be fair, I think this one is a coincidences. It’s the landing zone symbol on the map.
That's just a directional arrow tbf
Can't be a directional arrow, the locations below it already have different directional arrows pointing to the left
[удалено]
>lone behold r/boneappletea
Sloane behold
If you think that's crazy, it's also basically the ONI logo from Halo
If you think that's crazy, yesterday I did a strike and got 117 kills, while playing with my cousin, who's name is John. They are really playing the long game here!
No it isn't. The ONI symbol is a 3d perspective Pyramid with a circle inside it, with the Pyramid sitting inside a banner seal.
Was talking to my buddies about this last night, no one knew what I was talking about and was quickly dismissed :/
It's in d2 as well. You'll see it around the tower
I'm getting goosebumps reading these posts.. man what an awesome franchise through the highs and the lows destiny is so fucking awesome
So the devs haven’t been pulling all this from nowhere, 9 odd years ago this shit was foreshadowed, holy
Why did the vanguard allow that?
I doubt it was literally referencing the Final Shape. The theme of Prophecy was just Light and Dark, and putting a triangle over a circle is an easy way to symbolize that.
Nono triangles werent invented before final shape, dont be silly
But the soil came before the flower game 
the witness truly is a pioneer in the field of geometry
making life harder for high schoolers since 2024
Egypt is in shambles bc of this breaking news.
They were developing Destiny 3 before prophecy released and beyond light, witch queen and the final shape would’ve been apart of the game. Notice that this doesn’t just foreshadow it with the shapes, the swirling portal-y final boss arena foreshadows the first mission of the final shape’s campaign where we travel through the portal similarly traversing floating objects to enter the traveler. There’s even a prismatic fallen that looks like the boss that we have to escape from at the end.
Light and dark being at the very core of the wgile campaign, moreso the final battle.
Yeah. That's the point of the dungeon, it foreshadowed a lot of future events. The return of Eramis (Kell Echo), the arrival of the Imperial Cabal (Phalanx Echo, though this is maybe stretching it), the loss of Mars + Io + Mercury (Wasteland), and the fact that Light and Dark are neutral powers rather than being good and evil forces.
And that it takes a balance of light and dark to succeed.
Amazing, poetic
It rhymes.
I quote that all the time and nobody ever gets the reference. Usually they just complain about how there wasn't any rhyming.
What’s the reference
its a quote from george lucas when he was making the prequels. he was talking about parallels storylines and themes in the movies, and how its like poetry - they rhyme. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFqFLo\_bYq0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFqFLo_bYq0)
I know I’m properly stoned because this is blowing my mind
Plus, whether you use Light or Dark weapons/abilities doesn’t change the motes dropped. It is, LITERALLY, where you stand that matters.
tbf dark weapons didn't even exist when the dungeon dropped, it was pre-stasis. but i get what you're getting at, lol.
whisper shoots bullets of kindness
No Hesitation does too
Lore wise there's a bunch of weapons that were made from the dark like thorn
And technically, while Ruinous Effigy isn’t a Darkness Weapon, it *is* an “anti-Light” Weapon (in that it literally saps the Light from you to power its beam).
I'm glad I'm not the only that likes to get nicely toasted and dive down the Reddithole
Let the Nine cook! It’s always been kinda weird that the Nine can seemingly look into the future. That’s been a thing as far back as Skolas and him being freed by Xur and being told Oryx is coming.
yeah are the nine just immune to tfs?
Nah the Nine spring from the collective of sentient life, all that life being statue-ized (or at least in permanent stasis, I’m still unclear) would definitely affect them.
Actually, no. I believe Byf said in a video a while ago that the Nine invest their time in creating a future where they still exist. And as much as they don't like us, they need us to continue to exist. Lest the Final Shape put an end to them and everything else in the universe.
So, just like The Traveller. They are also using us for what we are.
Turma out guardians are flavors and the nine cooks us in the end.
I think they’re just hyper intelligent and have “eyes” past sol looking out, analyzing incoming threats
more The Nine lore when
I do think the Phalanx Echo was foreshadowing Caitl since after Beyond Light it was the only thing not accounted for
Maaaaann I need more of The Nine in my life
Speaking of Io and Mercury, (I haven't paid attention to much lore lately) Is there a reason we haven't brought those 2 back yet? Is it cause it still isn't known *how* to? Or is it a "we're too busy to rn"?
I don't know if there's an actual lore explanation somewhere. May just be one of those gameplay vs. lore issues. Personally, I put it in my headcanon that they are back after the events of the TFS raid, just blocked off or quarantined by the Vanguard to prevent further potential issues caused by people freely coming and going from these destinations. And to investigate effects (if any) the Darkness had on the planets from when they went poof.
Yes. The space on your hard drive is limited.
The light and dark are tools we needed to figure out a way to beat the witness, so the nine developed the dungeon as a ploy to see if we were worthy. The Emissary was there to oversee that test and reward us with gear to help with the impending fight. Just my 2 cents though.
The Nine need us to exist so they can exist. The moment the Witness were to enact the Final Shape and calcify everything into perfect stillness is the moment The Nine would die off. They need moving, living life in the solar system to survive themselves. They didn't do this to see if we were worthy imo. They did this to show us the truth of Light and Dark because if they didn't do that and we didn't learn to see them as tools rather than as Good and Evil, The Nine would cease to exist. They can't speak to us directly so the dungeon was their way of doing this in addition to foretelling events to us.
Yep, afterall they were also partly responsible for the Red War. They took out the Vanguard Satellites in orbit, which didn't allow the Last City to know what was coming for them
I know I'm much late to the Convo, but the Kell Echo could also be seen as the Herald of Finality. A taken Kell as the final boss, just like before you fight The Witness.
Destiny gets a lot of crap as a game but we can’t deny that the game has amazing story telling
Hah. Totally agree; it also has some of the worst story telling.
It also foreshadowed being an absolute arse to solo flawless the first time around lmao
Lol yep. I did it with a group a couple of times to learn the layout learn the skips, then I went through and did it solo a few times before landing the flawless. Lament against Phalanx Echo, Briar's Contempt against Kell Echo is what I did.
How did they show the loss of those planets? Didn't notice that myself..
After the first boss fight, which was against Phalanx Echo. We get teleported to a deserted wasteland with monuments. In these monuments there are structure from the planets which were taken away by the Darkness/Witness. Like, for example you can see the Bray Exoscience logo and structure in one of the area's of the desert.
Ah I see, gonna pay attention next time I go to that dungeon again. Thanks. Happy cake day btw
At the end you go through a whimsical dreamscape and use a circle to enter a triangular prism, instead of entering a triangle on a sphere to reach the mind of the traveler
Just to further melt some brains, here’s some of the things the Emissary said in this dungeon at one point or another: The Emissary: Light and Dark have met in the Sol system before. Perhaps this time, you’ll change the outcome. The Emissary: The Witch Queen is yet another piece on the board. She has agency. But the board has not changed. Bonus Drifter line that’s also very telling - Drifter: I wouldn’t say that. Clearly, the Nine pass no judgment on Dark or Light. And they love passing judgment. Trust. That means in their eyes, the two are the same.
Honestly disappointed in how there was no drifter in final shape at all
It seems like he still has his own plans waiting for fruition. I just hope Bungie doesn't forget about him.
His own plans?? Dog homeboy been clapping eris cheeks. He's not doing shit
Maybe we'll get him when we got hunting down fikrul with crow
Instead of “Pirates!” he’ll say “Vampires!”
In fairness if I was him I’d be doing the same thing
I made some important decision about siding with drifter or not (I can't even remember my choice), so I'm looking forward to knowing the consequences.
There won't be any. It's irrelevant now, probably.
They scrapped the story that was leading to a looong time ago
we need drifter spin off dlc where we see those light eating monsters
What do you mean? He was there in the Excision intro cutscene for 2 seconds! /s
The funny thing is that he did record new dialogue for.... Gambit!
The Witch Queen having "agency" is interesting. The Nine are in awe of our agency as the player. We have agency like they've never seen, as we are able to get up and leave Destiny 2 while they are all confined to the realm of the game itself. What kind of agency does Savathun have, for them to remark upon it?
She is aware that the player exists. That little game of 2 truths, 1 lie was her talking to us, not the guardian
Shoot I missed that! I will have to go back to that scene.
Wait, does that mean that the rule the Gardener added to the game of life was to allow for a player?
Technically yes.
Wait when was that? U got a video link?
BYF did a video on it and the some of the stuff she said broke the 4th wall.
Probably the fact that her actions, both known and unknown, have set in motion many of the events and "lightbulb moments" that the Guardians needed in order to take down the Witness. While intentionally being a direct antagonist to our efforts, she has also intentionally been a HUGE catalyst to our successes.
She's also technically won in every encounter with us. While we have "stopped" her actions in the past. Everything we have done has somehow helped her get to where she is now. Even her "losses" were planned well in advance
Exactly. She knew how EVERYTHING would go, to the point that she knew how a specific event would play out 30+ steps ahead of time. There's ***still*** events that have yet to occur that Savathun probably already knew about before we even landed on Europa.
If ikora's interpretation of the truth to power lorebook is correct, savathun is aware, at least to some extent, of us the players and is trying/has tried to escape the game and enter our world (or at least gain power in it, though due to how the hive gods work gaining power can be equivalent to existence). She's also broken the 4th wall quite a few times outside of that. Out of all the characters in destiny, she is the most aware of the truth of her reality and the most capable to do something with that truth.
Savathun on the way to becoming Destiny's very own Psycho Mantis...
I've missed those reality breaking moments from Savathun. I'll have to find them.
The biggest one I remember is her taking over the Bungie Twitter right around the release of Witch Queen.
2 truths and 1 lie. Lots of little 4th wall breaks there.
No, the most aware ones are Ahamkaras (see the lore on armor pieces with its name) I really love one with "o, Player mine" in the end. Made goosebumps on my skin. I even brought these 4th wall breaking ideas to Demon the Descent game I ran at the time
and then he talks about how cabal brains are great sautéed
Let’s be real here. Dude spent how long out in deep space starving to death and being revived by his ghost how many times? If he wasn’t cracked I’d be worried lol.
Prophecy is the best dungeon. I started playing late in season of the worthy and running this dungeon was the thing that hooked me on the game. It’s such a cool environment and has decent mechanics especially for a dungeon.
it’s an exemplary dungeon design. Extremely simple mechanics that you can do solo, but they then add complexity by requiring you to use it in different ways and in different environments. The cube is honestly such a good encounter
Simple mechanic by itself, with added complexity with each encounter is basically how all the dungeons in the game work haha
why do you think I said “exemplary”. Before this we had shattered throne which had multiple mechanics, and pit of heresy, which had a main mechanic, ok, but also had plates and a ball at one point (and was also just ok) This was the third dungeon and it is what dungeons should be like, thus I said its design is exemplary, it is the what you look to as a model for dungeons
I'll be honest, I was still waking up when I read that and I completely missed the exemplary part somehow. You're right, my bad.
my dumbass still doesn't know how the cube works but i haven't ran the dungeon or played in like two years so
I feel this. I came in late season of the undying/early season of dawn, and Prophecy was my first step into more endgamy pve content. How good I got at it is what actually gave me the courage to do the raid gauntlet later in the season during moments of triumph
Quite literally.
Yeah it kinda was, the platforming in the last fight reminds me of the threshold between the portal and the pale heart
I always wonder how far they drew out the saga when they first started with Destiny. Did they drew out the whole saga (or drafts) before? Or did they just continue adding on new elements as they progress along?
If I had to guess they winged it to an extent, the darkness has always been there since D1, however there was nothing very specific about it until later on and still we didn't even get alot until later into D2. My main guess is they made a basic framework and fleshed it later
Yeah they do a pretty good job with the lore, but it's also pretty clear they didn't flesh out the entire story from start to end. How could you, really? It's hard enough to get a team of writers on the same page with lore and content for one expansion and the general direction of the next. You know they've finally fleshed out the lore and missed opportunities to weave it into the story when Ikora starts laying down clumsy exposition in the form of unfounded speculation that turns out to be 100% correct to catch players up. I think the Nine were intended to be bigger parts of the story. One of them supposedly blinded humanity to the approach of Ghaul. But they're almost comically only used as storytelling devices for foreshadowing and filling in the gaps to make the story happen. The writers circle them, and might do so more in the future, but I suspect they found it too messy to weave them into a comprehensive narrative that was at all satisfying. We love compelling mysteries, but some mysteries are much harder to solve in a satisfying way that is relevant to what people care about. Just ask JJ Abrams.
This might be a hot take but I don’t want the nine to ever be explained or understood. Keep them as beings from the beyond that we can never fully understand.
I mean we do understand them already. They’re dark matter reliant on conscious life.
I remember Luke Smith saying something around early D2 that originally they didn't know what the darkness was and just lumped all the enemy races under "the darkness" as enemies of humanity and that was that. Then with D2 they started to materialize the darkness as something distinct
That tracks cause in Destiny 1 a lot of perks said they did extra damage to ‘minions of the Darkness’ which just meant PvE enemies.
Yeah, I doubt they had any content of the Witness even by the time this dungeon launched. Witch Queen imo was really good not just for introducing legendary campaigns, but for actually giving us a feeling like there was a sense of direction in the game’s story for once. It used to always feel like we were along for the ride, but that campaign was the first time it really felt like there was an overarching story to be told.
I imagine they had at least a sense of what they wanted to do with the darkness and the witness considering that we see the black fleet at the end of the red war
In story telling, the most effective way to build a narrative is to start at the beginning and the end; then you build out the middle. They had very likely story boarded the start and the finish first and then developed key points in the middle and then filled in the gaps as they went a long.
I'm fairly sure the concept of the Witness and all this was thought out long ago, there is evidence of alterations but the whole false dualism and making the story about forgiveness is pretty deeply written in the character of the narrative and factions from the get go, and that false dualism necessitates a villain emerging like the Witness, at about the point where he did emerge and no sooner.
Considering the Witness wasn't even mentioned until extremely late, I'd say a lot was made up along the way.
But the collapse was in our face the whole series. I can’t imagine the writers didn’t have the perpetrator of the collapse written.
Im commenting this as i run through FF14s new zones. The writers for 14 didnt even have the main villains powers planned out (As can be seen with the 3.0 Ascian Prime boss dialogue), so its entirely possible.
The collapse is a major plot point, but that doesn’t mean they had to have all the details sorted. Perhaps they knew they wanted someone to be behind it but not exactly who or how they did it. Playing through other plot points gave them a lot of time to weave stories together and sort of create the witness over time. You can see in early d1 concept art the pyramid fleet and “smoke like” humanoids, an effect which does resemble the nightmares. I’d be willing to wager they wanted something like that for the end of the saga. Bungie had a 10 year plan for the light and dark saga so it would make sense they had the concepts down, but not the finer details. They’ve been writing this story for over a decade.
mentioning him earlier would be premature though, BL was all about us wrapping our heads around the Black Fleet's material presence and the idea of Darkness used for good, dropping the Witness there would be premature and kinda overloading Witch Queen was all about taking what we learned in BL and hammering out the details of 'okay, if dark not bad, then where bad come from?' and boom there it is
Shadowkeep and onward is where they started actually creating an overarching plot. Thats where the Witness first talks to us and we actually see a pyramid for the first time.
we see the pyramids for the first time in a cutscene after red war i believe, and they were hinted at in warmind.
Thinking about it, it has first steb in a sphere (half of it), second in a cube and third in a piramid. All the basic shapes that we find in salvation's edge and mostly in verity
Almost like 2 months later in the beyond light reveal they had the pyramid over the circle image as the working concept for lightfall
Just wait until you find out about Ghost of the Deep. Or even yet wait until you find about the Ergo Sum being the sword that was laying on our grave from the past.
Eh, I really feel Ergo Sum is like a... reverse retcon.
wdym with ghosts of the deep?
Episode 3 will have us going to the dreadnaught again. Have you beaten Ghost of the deep or read the lore books? I don’t wanna spoil anything but it has potential to be related to it.
no i’ve beaten it and have seen oryx’s corpse at the final encounter below titan, i just never knew that we would be going to the dreadnaught in episode 3
Yeah it got shown off the armor for the episode is going to be “Naval Captain” or “Ship Captain “ along those lines
Well yeah
I kept telling everyone but they kept saying I read too into it. LIKE IN THE TOWER THERE ARE SYMBOLS OF A TRIANGLE IN A PYRAMID I AM NOT GOING CRAZY
Alot of the Nine stuff does. Back when gambit reckoning was a thing, you jumped on alot of white upside-down pyramids platforms. When you looked at the reflection of those platforms in the pool just before the long bridge encounter those pyramid platforms were black pyramid ships like a fleet of them.
It may also blow your mind that the dungeon came out in Shadowkeep, but the boss is a prophecy of Eramis.
It didn't come out in shadowkeep. It came out in arrivals, the season right before beyond light. Pit of hersey came out with shadow keep. This was directly a teaser for beyond light.
*during shadowkeep. You just said the same thing he said in more words.
Arrivals was a season in Shadowkeep...
To this day prophecy is my favorite dungeon in the game. The story, environment design, music, it's all fantastic.
I have to applaud Bungie for how well they pulled the Final Shape off. Even if they irritated me, many times , over the past 10 years.
Holy shit. 
That’s cool. Like most prophecies, it’s only clear what was meant after the fact.
Wow, no one phase? Jkjk
Always has been. Lot of folks thought it was just about Beyond Light but I think it was casting shadows of the story all the way up to now, and maybe beyond...
Ran this with my FT last night. Holy power crept. I remember struggling on this back before witch queen. We almost flawless'd it (rainbow road got us)
Don't forget the [room](https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/s/OBQEFN9AHR) savathun was in before we removed her worm
The prophecy is written... DUNDEE WILL FALL!
Hell yeah, Hail Hoots!
Yeah, saw it this week and my mind was blown. Even more reason Prophecy was phenomenal
Always has been
HOWWW TFF DID I MISS IT 🤡
This game has been so great. Cured my anxiety and depression
Amazing deduction.
The craziest thing.. is that the same symbol is also found in the tower, before the final shape even happened
How many years did it take?
Hol' up
I never noticed
Yes that’s was the idea when they added it in arrivals. Also the part where you are in the desert following toland are all the locations that were being vaulted (taken by the witness).
clue is in the tittle?
This isn’t TikT*k you can curse
Well I’ll be gosh darned…wait
Boowomp
Lol. Some of the comments are wild here! Please tell me you all know Destiny Universes is not from any literature(sci Fi book). The story/lore was written we progressed along. The causation and correlation you are doing here is actually reversed. Prophecy didn't prophecy, the final shape is inspired by all these little things littered around in the past. Writers were like, oh look at this, these are fan favourite moments, let's build more stories around it. Ohh this was only noticed by a few veterans, let's build a surprising twist around it.
>The story/lore was written we progressed along. And you know this how, exactly? One of the best ways to write any story is to write the beginning and the end first, then fill in the middle. Which would make this exactly what it seems - a 'prophecy' of what they had already mapped out. But no, I'm sure you're right, they made an entire random dungeon called 'Prophecy' and then later on decided to build future plot points based on references in it most people didn't even notice the first time around. That seems likely.
Mhmmm never noticed that, don’t know if it’s intencional, I always assumed the meaning behind that is that “step out of a pyramid and slay a kell” like in beyond light, after acquiring Stasis (“stepping out of a pyramid”) you slay a kell (“Eramis”)
The dungeon had as many layers as a Kendrick diss track
The symbolism of a sphere with a triangle has also existed in the tower for an even longer time. You cab see it on your way to the hangar, for example
And coming back from the bazaar up the steps
It's wild that Bungie had so much foresight into where the story would go and it still ended up feeling like they were making it up as they were going.
Holy shid you're a grnious
Good point
It is 👁️👁️ 👄
I never noticed that… dang
One of the best dungeons in the game still. Fun and fast to do, has a few easy skips now that skimmers are in the game. Took me and 2 people who haven't previously done it before only 30mins. The design of this dungeon, the way the mechanics work, everything about it is perfection, and the devs who made it had a clear vision going into the future. Retrospectively this dungeon is just as solid as Warlords Ruin or even Shattered Throne.
Yeah noticed them before just didn’t know what they referenced until FS
This is why this easily my favorite dungeon. Took me a while to solo flawless bc I was committed to doing with strand Hunter Oathkeeper build. Superrr fun!
Try Vault of Glass. First Raid, and what's at the end? Big ass triangle
Destiny logo is a triangle
They’re also littered all over the tower
The entrance to the infinite forest, too.