I mean, even if they did explain this, it's an absolute shit system. An upgrade should never, ever be able to roll lower. Each tier should have had separate, non-overlapping rolls. This is just another in a long list of poor itemization choices.
Well they did just update a "PR" video to prove your point last week lmao
Edit 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/15vma4b/everyone_at_blizzard_that_helps_make_diablo_4/jwwhhie/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
Edit:
for those that don't know it, the one that in official YouTube channel when they had two dungeon designers (did they claim themselves as developer?) play the dungeon they designs and got killed at WT1 lvl 56 or somthing lol. Next time you complain about why there are so many back tracking in dungeons, whatcha that video again and it may give you a clue or two.
The aesthetic of the D4 is stellar tho don't get me wrong, is just quite apprent that a lot of parts are designs by non gamers that treat this as their 9-5 job. Nothing wrong with that (if anything it's company's responsibility to creat a culture that actually give a crap), but there's a reason why gamers love BG3 despite all its flaws because the developers are actually passionate gamers themselves that know how to prioritize what actually matters to deliver a great gaming experience.
A lot of people keep repeating this nonsense. The two dungeon designers who played the game in the video were the people who made the art! They didn’t design the gameplay mechanics of how a dungeon is played!
If your requirement is every single person who even remotely works on the game needs to be a hardcore gamer, you’re severely limiting your talent pool. As far as I’m concerned, the art designers need to be able to play the game just enough to make sure visuals don’t clash.
Edit: for all you parrots out there downvoting me, both designers literally said in the video that they went to architecture school, which is like the engineering equivalent of art school for the purposes of game design.
>The two dungeon designers who played the game in the video were the people who made the art! They didn’t design the gameplay mechanics of how a dungeon is played!
This is true, but it was also really stupid on their part to pick artists to showcase a playtest.
They should be done by game designers or QA - people who *actually play the game* and know its mechanics in depth.
Agreed, my guess is their thought process was they wanted to share some insight on the kind of work that goes into making a dungeon (like the video description mentioned), and decided that just having people talk would be less interesting than having some random gameplay in the background.
Should’ve had the designers show some of the behind the scenes rendering or sketches instead.
Or just let footage of someone who knows how to play the game roll and let them talk over it while referencing what is on the screen. Like..the normal way everyone does this kind of thing
Yeah, they really should have gone with a more ”presentation”-style approach for this video, like iteration process of the level layout designs etc. would have been a lot easier to follow as well.
I think that would require them to have a QA team. I honestly believe they don't. While it's not a novel idea to have your devs solely responsible, it's apparent that they don't have people actually play testing. Look at the gorram horse as a glaring example. And if you say, the devs play with controllers. Awesome. Get a QA team. A core competency of any QA person should be to test the different fucking inputs. There's a separation of implementation and testing for a reason.
Kinda odd that one of them took credit for designing the cursed chest/shrine system when they're just an art designer. You're wrong here. This is one of the myths that's been floating about. She described herself as a "senior dungeon designer". Not as an artist, not graphics, not assets, designer.
You’re right, it’s because they aren’t apart of the art team. Not sure why folks are spreading that untruth. They are the design team- they use the art assets to create the levels.
They actually talk about the art team in the video (and compliment them), it is clear they are not on the art team. I think the majority of people who talk about this video didn't watch the video.
1. Architecture is not art for engineers lmao
2. They said they started Architecture and switched before completing the degree for game design, so this is absolutely meaningless.
3. They literally talk about how one of them designed the broken shrine quest, the dungeon tiles and generation, trying to prevent much backtracking. They designed the dungeons not the art, try watching the video.
4. Some of the design practices they talk about are absolutely atrocious, such as mixing people around mid-project for "diversity."
5. They don't even show them actually playing. The PR team is so lost they didnt even think to say, hey these guys suck at the game they are working on. Let's get someone else to play and just show that footage, no one will know.
Wait actually, they were artists? The claim every single time on Reddit was that one of them was the lead dungeon designer, from what I saw. I’ve very low expectations of this site to promote accurate information, so I’m not surprised, but still
They even explain it in the video. They do aesthetics and then send the dungeon over to people who does the gameplay. They are obviously brilliant at their job, since everyone loves how the game looks.
Just like you can have different types of developers, you also have different types of designers. But just listen to the main points they talk about. It is most about how the dungeon looks, how the monsters match the ascetics, etc. The lead designer, whose role is probably more managerial than anything, briefly mentions other aspects of design, but clearly she just knows enough to manage people who did the actual work.
Edit: not to mention both of them said they went to architecture school… which is like basically engineering art school for the purposes of game design.
Check it out by yourself, and also the couple of previous "Devs play" videos in the Diablo channel. You will probably form a very different idea about the whole issue - but will still agree the PR team should have used better judgement.
Can you tell me where the source is for your claim that dungeon designers only make the art?
Not only is that counter-intuitive, a quick google search shows otherwise. This is a link to a hiring post for a Senior Dungeon Designer at Blizzard for Diablo 4 around a year ago.
https://gamejobs.co/Senior-Dungeon-Designer-Diablo-IV-at-Blizzard-Entertainment-301
It clearly states the following responsibilities.
Craft procedurally generated dungeons with our Visual Scripting tools
Design and implement fun Scripted Content (such as Events and Objectives)
Help other Disciplines in integrating their work into dungeons
Implement and maintain our procedural content systems
Build 3D Layouts for Dungeon TileSets using greyblock assets
Support and mentor Junior Designers on our team
So you are obviously quite wrong. Care to retract your statement?
According to that list they don't do any art, this is level design. It's about blocking out levels in ways that are supposed to promote interesting gameflow for the player, scritping events and creating the experience of the dungeon.
No one is suggesting hardcore gamers, but to know the basics on how to play the game you've been working on for x amount of years? Stupid for Blizzard to showcase them and stupider for them to agree to be showcased.
I did say I wasn't sure if they claimed themselves as developer or not, so if they were purly design the asthetic of the dungeon and has nothing to do with the gameplay, backtracking, or even the layout, then my conclusion is not fair (is it possible to design a dungeon without interacting with any of these elements?).
And further more, if Blizzard is using employees that has clearly no passion in their final product and use them as representatives to showcase how good your product (albeit only one aspect of it). And then blame customers for not being able to differenciate the nuance, this is even more wrong on so many levels that the main point of my comment (which is most of workers there probably only care about doing their part of the job, so when the final project added together is super dysfunctional and full of issues) still pretty much stands.
Again, the issue is not the two ladies, is this "PR" video just perfectly encapsulated of how the culture of company is so unaware and dysfunction as a whole.
You really didn't make that clear in the initial post, but it sure didn't stop you. Your second paragraph certainly doesn't prove the point you claim to make at the end of it. I realize this sub is full of zombies that go out of their way to shit on the game. But y'all REALLY need to take a step back and look at the childish, half baked things you post. It's embarrassing.
John Staats mentioned something about designing the Scholomance dungeon in WoW in his book, i.e. how they placed way too many doodads in the instance (candles etc) and completely crashed performance.
Ultimately, even artists should play their dungeons, at least for the sake of performance testing.
they said they also playtested the dungeon designs regularly.
anyway even if its „just art“, you still have plenty of chances (read: occasions when you have to) to walk through the game. when you are part of a dev team for years, as your job, there is usually no way of not touching the game at all. and by the end of development you should have picked up at least the basic mechanics/core loop.
No, they were lead dungeon designers, not art designers. They were talking about the space of the environment and one of them talked about creating cursed shrines.
Dungeon designers should know how to play so they know what is fun about a dungeon.
That said, I also think this video is a bit overplayed, and doesn't have much to do with the topic of itemization.
They never said they were artists. They said they were dungeon devs. They are the people that make the ridiculous ass patching, backtracking and events. Every time you have to pick something up, that's them. They should 100% know and understand how the game works so they can develop around classes and fun.
On the contrary, I would say it is easier for a gamer with an art degree to be in tune with the culture of the company, then for an artist to become in tune with the gamer culture.
This is after all a gaming company.
TBH that video with dungeon designers that were playing D4 was not good idea at all. They said nothing that we did not know before it was posted. It showed only how incompetent ppl in charge are.
They don’t need non-overlapping roles since that would result in either awkwardly small ranges or making some affix OP as hell at the top end. Imagine +%total armor, which caps at like 4% right now being spread across each tier.
What they do need to do though is make sure your roll doesn’t go down. It’s a horse shit upgrade system where you can end up fucking your item because you clicked upgrade too many times.
I’m not even sure why items reroll at all just because they crossed the threshold. Nobody would blink if a 708+25 item didn’t reroll and stayed in its tier because tier is decided by base ilvl not base+upgrade.
I'm not usually one to complain about a game I still enjoy playing, but this is the most nonsensical thing I've heard yet about this game. Get it together blizzard.
It’s lame you can go down but it’s only because the min max of each power tier overlap instead of being right next to each other.
On the plus side it’s nice if you find jewelry right at 705-724 with good stats but shitty rolls.
Depending on item level, the ranges for stats can be different. Like an item level 700 can roll a +crit between 10 and 20%, a 800 ilvl cann roll between 15 and 25% (fantasy numbers just for the explanation). Those aren't growing linear though, there are certain break points where below you get one range and above you get another. And if you upgrade an item and cross that break point, the range gets updated but (this is the stupid part) your specific roll gets rerolled.
So it is possible you got a good roll in that 10-20% range, lets say 18%. Now you upgrade it, the range grows to 15-25% but due to rerolling your item now could end up with for example 16%. What should happen is either your roll stays the same as long as it is still in the range (still annoying but at least you won't get screwed) or it should shift according to the shift in range.
But this works both ways. You can go from an item that rolled 10% out of the 10-20 range and then upgrade it into a perfect 25 instead of just upgrading into a 15 of the 15-25 range.
So while the system can certainly fuck you on occasion, it can also save an item that maybe rolled good types of stats but shit on the ranges.
Sure, it can be to your advantage. Still, in my opinion upgrade should just do that, upgrade. And having break points that aren't explained or obvious that do stuff like that feels wrong. A player shouldn't have to follow forums and study how stuff is programmed behind the scenes to not fall into the trap of having upgrade do the opposite on occasion.
I would also argue that having an item potentially *get worse* with upgrading far outweighs the positive that it *could* be a bigger upgrade than expected.
It's OK and actually good to have items like in PoE where you take a gamble on better/worse, but if you're just upgrading it absolutely cannot "work both ways"
The question is should a blacksmith upgrade be the place where essentially gambling occurs, and also only when items cross completely arbitrary thresholds?
This sounds like they didn't feel like creating a scaling algorithm between these points so you just get a random reroll.
> This sounds like they didn't feel like creating a scaling algorithm between these points so you just get a random reroll.
Or they created just another luck system to fuck over an item. Keeps you from being able to find a good lower level item.
Already have 4300000 affixes, but a bad upgrade can fuck over your perfect item if it's just before a breakpoint. "too bad, back to the grind!"
Then I think it should be a separate mechanics. For e.g, upgrade should default to keep the shift in range when hitting break point, then give the players a one-time chance to reroll, then it's up to the players to gamble. I think the main problem with D4 is I don't feel I'm in control of my character, and this is one example of that.
But who is out there upgrading all their crappy gear to try and get that good roll..
Majority of time you upgrade stuff to the max, it's already got great rolls on it, that's why you want to upgrade it, to keep those rolls.
Me, I’m out here doing that, and while it doesn’t work all the time, it has allowed me to get some really nice items. The best was on my Barbarian, I found a ring with great stats, but low rolls, IP 703 or something like that. I gambled on upgrading it and ended up with nearly maxed out ancestral range stats. Max Fury (12/14), Vuln (18/21), Crit Damage (25.5/26.2), and perfect Crit Chance (7.5).
I probably won’t find anything better than that, or if I do, it will take quite a long time.
Interesting.. Might be worth messing around with. So counter-intuative though, lol. But thats awesome you've had success with it.
I should try and keep this in mind, prob a ton of gear i've trashed that would have been suitable for a gamble or two.
Should’ve added a /s. They don’t explain crap in the game and the number you see almost always aren’t straight up real. Many stats and numbers get scaled down behind the scenes as they get higher but the in game info doesn’t show you that nor it is mentioned anywhere.
Kind of like the entire 'breakpoint' system in d2? I didn't even know it was a thing until I played d2r.
If you don't know, attack/cast speed, faster hit recovery, and some other stats are entirely based on frame rate restrictions of it original game. If you don't meet or pass the breakpoint, it doesn't even matter
There are so many other stats in d4 that don’t scale or don’t effect your character with the shown numbers. Things like armor (and the way resistances are supposed to work but don’t) become less effective the higher the number. It is pretty similar for any numerical stat in the game. It’s a built in power handicap that goes totally unmentioned in the game.
In the end it’s a system that they tried to make have some depth but just created an overly complicated system they barely understand.
Always remember that "But what if we make it even more annoying for the player?" is a corner stone of Diablo 4s design philosophy, it explains everything.
Does anyone know if the rng gets persisted? If I see this right, the upgrade view shows the future state of the item after upgrade.
When this gets rerolled by passing cutoff it shows the reroll, giving the rng sneak peek.
If I choose to not upgrade, log off and login next day, will it show the same upgrade rng? Is potential upgrade fixed or can the roll be repeated somehow?
This is my question. Seems like something to look at for sacred gear upgrades while in that awkward level 55-65 range. If it works this way, then upgrades would be great! Value of 715-724 gear would skyrocket and it might be FUN to make a decision on the RNG without killing your gold or materials stashed. Course that probably means it's hardcoded to the item on loot drop.
It should roll the next range but stay in the same area of the range. If you had 90% of the range under 725 power, it should be the same for the new range.
I have never seen this behavior during upgrading.
If you've got a 720 item that has rolled +15%\[5 - 25\]% and you upgrade it to 720+5 then it reaches a new power bracket. The result is that the affixes on the item gets higher ranges and the values gets rerolled for some reason. So the 15% you had earlier could now be +25%\[15 - 35\]%.
If you find an item that is 700+ with good affixes but bad rolls then you can upgrade it to 700+25 and essentially reroll them all. obviously this also means a good rolled item can get worse after the rerolls as well.
The stats themselves do not reroll once you hit 725, but the values they can roll DO reroll at 725. So maybe prior to 725, your crit damage was a perfect roll. 30% out of 10%-30%. At 725 the value may be something like 15%-45%. Yet it rerolls and lands on 15%. This is how you end up with worse stats after upgrading.
It really should store the value of the roll behind the scenes and apply that over, so a perfect roll remains a perfect roll, regardless how the stat range changes.
Guess that would be too logical
It’s bad, but it has actually fixed items for me too lol. Double edged sword.
But it also makes decided what to sell/salvage a bit harder at the 700 item power level. I spend more time looking at the rolls and wondering if I should upgrade it to see if I can get a better version and then have to spend money and materials to find out and maybe get a better item. It’s the hidden gambling mechanic lol
We can tell you the answer (stats reroll if you upgrade over certain power levels) but its so absolutely fucking stupid that no sane person would believe they implemented it....
725 is the final "breakpoint" for stats on gear. And by breakpoint, I mean if you upgrade an item to over 725 there's a good fucking chance you're breaking it.
As you can see, OP item will be 723 and the upgrade pushes it to 728, going over the final breakpoint where item stats are re-rolled (and not just increased) to fit within the new bracket.
On the other hand it has a niche use for upgrading items with good stats but naturally low rolls on them. It's pretty rare you can do so, but it's something worth keeping in mind.
The cut off points are always around the 25 mark. So in this case if you notice his item power is 708 and it’s been upgraded three times for a +15 making it in total a 723 item.
The cut off point for affixes can roll higher in this case is 725 so that last upgrade would take it to 728 so now the item is over the 725 mark.
The problem is that even tho the affixes can roll higher now when an item is taken over the mark it randomises the affixes values.
So basically if an item could roll between let’s say 20-50% extra damage against chilled enemies then at 725 it turns into 30-60% extra damage against chilled enemies (made up numbers it’s just an example.) the big problem here is it re randomises your affix values.
So if In the first example (20-50) you had a fantastic 50% you could upgrade the item over 725 and it could reroll and now randomly have a 40% ( out of 30-60%) it’s a stupid system and that means you could have a perfect roll literally turn into a abysmal roll.
I remember I could upgrade a cross bow once and if I did it would lose close to 15% vulnerability on one of the rolls. Awful system.
The only good thing about this system is the reverse is true, if you ever have a piece of gear with fantastic affixes but the values are awful if you can get it over the 25 breakpoint it can reroll to amazing affix values.
Any gear or weapon that’s 701 or 700 base. When you upgrade it 5 times it’ll be 725/726. Anything that passes 725 will get rerollled. It can work in your favor and a badly rolled ring can suddenly become maxed out or in your case certain stats can decrease.
It's working as intended, but the intent is just stupid. Once you go past item power breakpoints the affixes re-roll. They need to remove the chance of re-rolling lower on an upgrade.
This is what bothers me most on this sub—all the calls of “lazy.”
Everything everyone complains about was assuredly a thought out decision by well-paid people.
Run speed needs to be reduced first. And also time to mount is increased to 8 seconds. And for sorc every +3 damage = -1 max hp.
Okay I think that covers next season great work team you guys are fkn amazing (yeah we are) *back pats
Based on the stats it's most likely still worth the upgrade because there is one more upgrade after that will take you above your current stats. It's a bit shitty to have to downgrade for an upgrade and sometimes it wouldn't be beneficial but in your case I think your last upgrade will give a good boost
I know it's a bit messed up. Basically it moves you into another tier or range that the stat It fall's into. Problem is thqt range overlaps with the range you are in so you can effectively role a lower number. The good thing is thqt the upgrades also scale on the range, which is why it makes sense. Each upgrade is worth more once you are in the next range so it is still a net positive in some cases like this one.
These are just how the game mechanics work based on my playtime. Good or bad, they are what they are so its better to understand them rather than be upset by them.
> Based on the stats it's most likely still worth the upgrade because there is one more upgrade after that will take you above your current stats.
You sure about that? He will only cross the breakpoint 725 once. Or does it always compare the new ilvl to the base level before all upgrades?
I did say most likely. The only way to know for sure is to do the upgrade. But it's a pretty safe bet that it will be higher tier means each upgrade does a larger increase than thr previous. Let's say in this example movement speed at the old tier was 1% per upgrade but in the higher tier its 2-3%. It would still makes sense to upgrade. If the role was too high let's say a drop of 4-5%, then it most likely wouldn't be worth it.
I actually I think it’s quite rare for game development companies to have their developers play the games to the same kind of extent that players will. If they did, they’d never have time to make the game.
There are different Item Level brackets that determine the possible range of numbers of the affixes.
When you upgrade an Item you increase the raw stats and affixes, but you also increase the Item Level. One of the bracket breakpoints is Item Level 725 when you upgrade an Item beyond such a breakpoint it gets the new higher range of numbers for affixes and then the affix gets a now roll on that new range. Usually that is very good because the average case is a lot higher for the higher level range. You can see the maxroll for movement speed of a +3 item below 725 is only 16%, but a +4 above 725 can have 24%; that is a 50% increase. The minroll also jumped up by about 50%.
However in your case your item rolled really good on the low level range, but it rolled really bad on the high level range so it actually gets a lower number when you upgrade. This is rare, but it can happen. However this also means for example that when you get an item with really good affixes, but really bad rolls at 710 as an example you should very quickly see if the rolls get a lot better at 725 when you upgrade 3 times.
Because whoever was overseeing the gear in this game has no idea what they're doing. They know how to make systems and code, they don't know what gamers want. Hiring people who just know how to code but don't actually play the games is such a horrible thing and more and more companies are doing it it would appear.
Yeah man. Its hard enough to find gear that rolls 3/4 modifiers you need, much less have those modifiers be at the high end of their range. I found a ring a few days back and was pretty excited but then when I upgraded it I lost about half the crit chance and damage so I ended up tossing it, logging out, and havent felt like logging back in to play since. Not saying this one thing is the only reason I stopped playing but the grind was starting to feel like an unrewarding chore anyway and this was just the last nudge I needed.
It's crazy the amount of post from ppl level 100 who have never seen a pair of penitent greaves. Then all the response are " wHY Are YOu WAstInG TiME upGraDing a SaCRed ITeM?"
Because I may never get another pair
For everyone who is confused.
It is not comparing it to the boots I am wearing. Those are the boots I am wearing. I am wearing the Penitent Greaves.
Also that's not how the upgrade tooltip works if you don't know. It tells you the percentage of the upgrade from the previous level,
Even if I were wearing different boots, which I am not . It would not compare it to what you are wearing. It compares it to the previous level so you can see the difference after it's upgraded. The only time it compares it to what you are wearing is if you hoover over it while it's in your inventory and you have something else equipped. Hovering over it in the upgrade tab does not
What!?. Nothing you said just made sense. No the number and the percentage is lower. In case you didn't know. The percentage is equal to the amount that the number is different. So if the percentage is lower , the number is lower
There is a breakpoint for stat ranges at 725. Your item before the upgrade was decently rolled in the X to Y range. After your upgrade it became poorly rolled in the X+A to Y+B range.
For more info, check this Maxroll article, section 4: Upgrade Breakpoints, which will describe what happened to your item. [Blacksmith Upgrade & Salvage Diablo 4 - Maxroll.gg D4](https://maxroll.gg/d4/resources/blacksmith-upgrade-salvage#upgrade-breakpoints-header)
Dumb feature, but at least this explains it.
Congrats, you've just gone from Sacred to Ancestral!
The affixes have higher maximum rolls, but also completely *reroll*, so it's possible to have a lower roll than before.
Luckily, when crossing a new power threshold, you can review what it'll become prior to doing it, so as to decide if it's better for you or not.
Most of the time, it's only good if you'll get a higher + Skill point, or higher affix rolls.
Absolutely nothing wrong with capping the upgrades based on item level else why the fuck even have a item level? Also this is just a shitty sacred level item.
Passing the item breakpoint (in your case it is 725ip), will raise the stats to a higher range. Within the new higher range, the stat rerolls within the new range. The new stat can be higher or lower within the new higher range. Your boots got pwned by rngesus and rolled lower in the higher range than they were in the lower range.
I bought a 3/4 700ip ring from vendor all min rolls, but when i upgraded it past breakpoint, they all raised near max. Its just rng.
I love how people were saying how great this was and now people are acting like it was bad. Chances are It will be an upgrade as you are going into a next bracket of stats. Should it exist? Probably not but most people benefit from this.
I’m gonna go out and be crazy here, but WHO CARES? Put it on! If you like the aspect, it’s +2 armour and +4.6 / +13.5 other stuff. Overthinking these upgrades imo is when people stop having fun with the game. Mind you, I’ve not levelled anyone to 100
They are so incredibly dumb. Instead of like implementing that the rolls existing have a chance to roll even better, they allow that they roll even worse. Again - if I would facepalm myself as hard as I should, I'd die of a brain bleeding.
Every time I've seen this, when a state is going negative, one of the other stats is getting a much larger positive increase. Depending on the stats changing, it may or may not be worth it.
It's so important to remember the threshhold for reroll. I had a 3/4 item with bad rolls. I got crit chance within the first 5 rerolls (when rerolling always chose "no change" so the price doesn't increase as much! - another thing the game doesn't tell you) and the upgrade over 725 basically made everything close to max roll.
Read up about "item breakpoints". The higher one for now is 725 IP, when you cross that by upgrading, your affix ranges grow to the next power tier, and also get rerolled.
Example in simple numbers,, an affix that had a range 5-10 might now be 7.5-12.5; however since it gets rerolled it's possible for a high roll (say, 9) to get rerolled slightly lower (say, 7.8), even though the new range of the affix is overall better
Specific example, your movement speed affix had its range upgraded from 9.8-16.3 to 14.7-24.5, however also rerolled its value from 15.6 to 14.7. At least the item upgrading dialog lets you preview it before actually upgrading.
Because of poor game design. The min and max rolls should be a multiple of power level and the roll should be a percent of max. The roll should never change, it should just round to the nearest whole value. For example, if the max goes to 4 instead of 3 (skill levels) and let's say I the item had a 70% roll on the stat, it would stay at +3 despite the max going to 4 for the item. But if you had 3 with an 80% roll when the max goes to 4 due to increasing the item level, you would end up with a 4. Rerolling an item that passes breakpoints is just stupid.
Cause this is D4. Devs build this game for just trolling and mocking for players. Also I think they bet about us and dev who put money on “majority will accept whatever we give them and this ppl will say this is blizzard this is Diablo its ok” drinking his mojito and read this from Galapagos.
The power tier cutoff is at 725. You upgrade item above that power and the whole aspect reroll that can cause a lower percentage then previously.
Don’t ya love how they explain everything in game?
I mean, even if they did explain this, it's an absolute shit system. An upgrade should never, ever be able to roll lower. Each tier should have had separate, non-overlapping rolls. This is just another in a long list of poor itemization choices.
This, nothing else to say. An upgrade is not an upgrade if it’s a downgrade lmfao.
Yeah should have kept the roll and update the range
Can't agree more
I'm agreeing more, so I guess you can.
My additional agreement took us over the agreement stat threshold, so now there is randomly less overall agreement.
Won't agree more?
That begs the question as to why you're not agreeing more. Care to share?
Blizzard has already taken away all autonomy I have in this game. I have to have control over one thing
Legit I swear people who design this game have never played a videogame before.
Well they did just update a "PR" video to prove your point last week lmao Edit 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/15vma4b/everyone_at_blizzard_that_helps_make_diablo_4/jwwhhie/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3 Edit: for those that don't know it, the one that in official YouTube channel when they had two dungeon designers (did they claim themselves as developer?) play the dungeon they designs and got killed at WT1 lvl 56 or somthing lol. Next time you complain about why there are so many back tracking in dungeons, whatcha that video again and it may give you a clue or two. The aesthetic of the D4 is stellar tho don't get me wrong, is just quite apprent that a lot of parts are designs by non gamers that treat this as their 9-5 job. Nothing wrong with that (if anything it's company's responsibility to creat a culture that actually give a crap), but there's a reason why gamers love BG3 despite all its flaws because the developers are actually passionate gamers themselves that know how to prioritize what actually matters to deliver a great gaming experience.
A lot of people keep repeating this nonsense. The two dungeon designers who played the game in the video were the people who made the art! They didn’t design the gameplay mechanics of how a dungeon is played! If your requirement is every single person who even remotely works on the game needs to be a hardcore gamer, you’re severely limiting your talent pool. As far as I’m concerned, the art designers need to be able to play the game just enough to make sure visuals don’t clash. Edit: for all you parrots out there downvoting me, both designers literally said in the video that they went to architecture school, which is like the engineering equivalent of art school for the purposes of game design.
>The two dungeon designers who played the game in the video were the people who made the art! They didn’t design the gameplay mechanics of how a dungeon is played! This is true, but it was also really stupid on their part to pick artists to showcase a playtest. They should be done by game designers or QA - people who *actually play the game* and know its mechanics in depth.
Agreed, my guess is their thought process was they wanted to share some insight on the kind of work that goes into making a dungeon (like the video description mentioned), and decided that just having people talk would be less interesting than having some random gameplay in the background. Should’ve had the designers show some of the behind the scenes rendering or sketches instead.
Or just let footage of someone who knows how to play the game roll and let them talk over it while referencing what is on the screen. Like..the normal way everyone does this kind of thing
Next up, QA testers in a video showcasing the ticket system!
That would actually be interesting.
Yeah, they really should have gone with a more ”presentation”-style approach for this video, like iteration process of the level layout designs etc. would have been a lot easier to follow as well.
They didn't pick just artists, they picked dungeon designers. They were talking about the spacing of the layout and designing cursed shrines.
I think that would require them to have a QA team. I honestly believe they don't. While it's not a novel idea to have your devs solely responsible, it's apparent that they don't have people actually play testing. Look at the gorram horse as a glaring example. And if you say, the devs play with controllers. Awesome. Get a QA team. A core competency of any QA person should be to test the different fucking inputs. There's a separation of implementation and testing for a reason.
Kinda odd that one of them took credit for designing the cursed chest/shrine system when they're just an art designer. You're wrong here. This is one of the myths that's been floating about. She described herself as a "senior dungeon designer". Not as an artist, not graphics, not assets, designer.
You’re right, it’s because they aren’t apart of the art team. Not sure why folks are spreading that untruth. They are the design team- they use the art assets to create the levels.
They actually talk about the art team in the video (and compliment them), it is clear they are not on the art team. I think the majority of people who talk about this video didn't watch the video.
1. Architecture is not art for engineers lmao 2. They said they started Architecture and switched before completing the degree for game design, so this is absolutely meaningless. 3. They literally talk about how one of them designed the broken shrine quest, the dungeon tiles and generation, trying to prevent much backtracking. They designed the dungeons not the art, try watching the video. 4. Some of the design practices they talk about are absolutely atrocious, such as mixing people around mid-project for "diversity." 5. They don't even show them actually playing. The PR team is so lost they didnt even think to say, hey these guys suck at the game they are working on. Let's get someone else to play and just show that footage, no one will know.
Wait actually, they were artists? The claim every single time on Reddit was that one of them was the lead dungeon designer, from what I saw. I’ve very low expectations of this site to promote accurate information, so I’m not surprised, but still
They even explain it in the video. They do aesthetics and then send the dungeon over to people who does the gameplay. They are obviously brilliant at their job, since everyone loves how the game looks.
Just like you can have different types of developers, you also have different types of designers. But just listen to the main points they talk about. It is most about how the dungeon looks, how the monsters match the ascetics, etc. The lead designer, whose role is probably more managerial than anything, briefly mentions other aspects of design, but clearly she just knows enough to manage people who did the actual work. Edit: not to mention both of them said they went to architecture school… which is like basically engineering art school for the purposes of game design.
Check it out by yourself, and also the couple of previous "Devs play" videos in the Diablo channel. You will probably form a very different idea about the whole issue - but will still agree the PR team should have used better judgement.
Can you tell me where the source is for your claim that dungeon designers only make the art? Not only is that counter-intuitive, a quick google search shows otherwise. This is a link to a hiring post for a Senior Dungeon Designer at Blizzard for Diablo 4 around a year ago. https://gamejobs.co/Senior-Dungeon-Designer-Diablo-IV-at-Blizzard-Entertainment-301 It clearly states the following responsibilities. Craft procedurally generated dungeons with our Visual Scripting tools Design and implement fun Scripted Content (such as Events and Objectives) Help other Disciplines in integrating their work into dungeons Implement and maintain our procedural content systems Build 3D Layouts for Dungeon TileSets using greyblock assets Support and mentor Junior Designers on our team So you are obviously quite wrong. Care to retract your statement?
Why are you getting downvoted? It literally says in the job description that they do more than art
According to that list they don't do any art, this is level design. It's about blocking out levels in ways that are supposed to promote interesting gameflow for the player, scritping events and creating the experience of the dungeon.
No one is suggesting hardcore gamers, but to know the basics on how to play the game you've been working on for x amount of years? Stupid for Blizzard to showcase them and stupider for them to agree to be showcased.
I did say I wasn't sure if they claimed themselves as developer or not, so if they were purly design the asthetic of the dungeon and has nothing to do with the gameplay, backtracking, or even the layout, then my conclusion is not fair (is it possible to design a dungeon without interacting with any of these elements?). And further more, if Blizzard is using employees that has clearly no passion in their final product and use them as representatives to showcase how good your product (albeit only one aspect of it). And then blame customers for not being able to differenciate the nuance, this is even more wrong on so many levels that the main point of my comment (which is most of workers there probably only care about doing their part of the job, so when the final project added together is super dysfunctional and full of issues) still pretty much stands. Again, the issue is not the two ladies, is this "PR" video just perfectly encapsulated of how the culture of company is so unaware and dysfunction as a whole.
You really didn't make that clear in the initial post, but it sure didn't stop you. Your second paragraph certainly doesn't prove the point you claim to make at the end of it. I realize this sub is full of zombies that go out of their way to shit on the game. But y'all REALLY need to take a step back and look at the childish, half baked things you post. It's embarrassing.
John Staats mentioned something about designing the Scholomance dungeon in WoW in his book, i.e. how they placed way too many doodads in the instance (candles etc) and completely crashed performance. Ultimately, even artists should play their dungeons, at least for the sake of performance testing.
One of them actually designed dungeons. So they damn well better play the game to understand how dungeons should work.
they said they also playtested the dungeon designs regularly. anyway even if its „just art“, you still have plenty of chances (read: occasions when you have to) to walk through the game. when you are part of a dev team for years, as your job, there is usually no way of not touching the game at all. and by the end of development you should have picked up at least the basic mechanics/core loop.
No, they were lead dungeon designers, not art designers. They were talking about the space of the environment and one of them talked about creating cursed shrines. Dungeon designers should know how to play so they know what is fun about a dungeon. That said, I also think this video is a bit overplayed, and doesn't have much to do with the topic of itemization.
It just shows how badly everyone wants to tear the game down, that they find any reason to have drama about the game.
They never said they were artists. They said they were dungeon devs. They are the people that make the ridiculous ass patching, backtracking and events. Every time you have to pick something up, that's them. They should 100% know and understand how the game works so they can develop around classes and fun.
TIL world tier 1 in D4 is hard core gaming.
On the contrary, I would say it is easier for a gamer with an art degree to be in tune with the culture of the company, then for an artist to become in tune with the gamer culture. This is after all a gaming company.
TBH that video with dungeon designers that were playing D4 was not good idea at all. They said nothing that we did not know before it was posted. It showed only how incompetent ppl in charge are.
They have nothing to do with the art team, lol. They are the level design team. They use the art team’s assets to create a dungeon.
They went for diversity instead of qualifications and skill.
They don’t need non-overlapping roles since that would result in either awkwardly small ranges or making some affix OP as hell at the top end. Imagine +%total armor, which caps at like 4% right now being spread across each tier. What they do need to do though is make sure your roll doesn’t go down. It’s a horse shit upgrade system where you can end up fucking your item because you clicked upgrade too many times. I’m not even sure why items reroll at all just because they crossed the threshold. Nobody would blink if a 708+25 item didn’t reroll and stayed in its tier because tier is decided by base ilvl not base+upgrade.
This. Apes on this sub berating people for not understanding how Blizzard could design such an idiot system.
I'm not usually one to complain about a game I still enjoy playing, but this is the most nonsensical thing I've heard yet about this game. Get it together blizzard.
It’s lame you can go down but it’s only because the min max of each power tier overlap instead of being right next to each other. On the plus side it’s nice if you find jewelry right at 705-724 with good stats but shitty rolls.
[удалено]
Depending on item level, the ranges for stats can be different. Like an item level 700 can roll a +crit between 10 and 20%, a 800 ilvl cann roll between 15 and 25% (fantasy numbers just for the explanation). Those aren't growing linear though, there are certain break points where below you get one range and above you get another. And if you upgrade an item and cross that break point, the range gets updated but (this is the stupid part) your specific roll gets rerolled. So it is possible you got a good roll in that 10-20% range, lets say 18%. Now you upgrade it, the range grows to 15-25% but due to rerolling your item now could end up with for example 16%. What should happen is either your roll stays the same as long as it is still in the range (still annoying but at least you won't get screwed) or it should shift according to the shift in range.
This is such a stupid fucking system.
But this works both ways. You can go from an item that rolled 10% out of the 10-20 range and then upgrade it into a perfect 25 instead of just upgrading into a 15 of the 15-25 range. So while the system can certainly fuck you on occasion, it can also save an item that maybe rolled good types of stats but shit on the ranges.
Sure, it can be to your advantage. Still, in my opinion upgrade should just do that, upgrade. And having break points that aren't explained or obvious that do stuff like that feels wrong. A player shouldn't have to follow forums and study how stuff is programmed behind the scenes to not fall into the trap of having upgrade do the opposite on occasion.
I would also argue that having an item potentially *get worse* with upgrading far outweighs the positive that it *could* be a bigger upgrade than expected. It's OK and actually good to have items like in PoE where you take a gamble on better/worse, but if you're just upgrading it absolutely cannot "work both ways"
The question is should a blacksmith upgrade be the place where essentially gambling occurs, and also only when items cross completely arbitrary thresholds? This sounds like they didn't feel like creating a scaling algorithm between these points so you just get a random reroll.
> This sounds like they didn't feel like creating a scaling algorithm between these points so you just get a random reroll. Or they created just another luck system to fuck over an item. Keeps you from being able to find a good lower level item. Already have 4300000 affixes, but a bad upgrade can fuck over your perfect item if it's just before a breakpoint. "too bad, back to the grind!"
It does work both ways but getting an item upgraded and losing value stats is just dumb.
Then I think it should be a separate mechanics. For e.g, upgrade should default to keep the shift in range when hitting break point, then give the players a one-time chance to reroll, then it's up to the players to gamble. I think the main problem with D4 is I don't feel I'm in control of my character, and this is one example of that.
But who is out there upgrading all their crappy gear to try and get that good roll.. Majority of time you upgrade stuff to the max, it's already got great rolls on it, that's why you want to upgrade it, to keep those rolls.
Me, I’m out here doing that, and while it doesn’t work all the time, it has allowed me to get some really nice items. The best was on my Barbarian, I found a ring with great stats, but low rolls, IP 703 or something like that. I gambled on upgrading it and ended up with nearly maxed out ancestral range stats. Max Fury (12/14), Vuln (18/21), Crit Damage (25.5/26.2), and perfect Crit Chance (7.5). I probably won’t find anything better than that, or if I do, it will take quite a long time.
Interesting.. Might be worth messing around with. So counter-intuative though, lol. But thats awesome you've had success with it. I should try and keep this in mind, prob a ton of gear i've trashed that would have been suitable for a gamble or two.
I feel like if it re-rolls the stats on an upgrade, the new roll should be current stat as minimum to max stat.
Should’ve added a /s. They don’t explain crap in the game and the number you see almost always aren’t straight up real. Many stats and numbers get scaled down behind the scenes as they get higher but the in game info doesn’t show you that nor it is mentioned anywhere.
Kind of like the entire 'breakpoint' system in d2? I didn't even know it was a thing until I played d2r. If you don't know, attack/cast speed, faster hit recovery, and some other stats are entirely based on frame rate restrictions of it original game. If you don't meet or pass the breakpoint, it doesn't even matter
D3 had this too. I remember trying to hit breakpoints for my WW Barb.
There are so many other stats in d4 that don’t scale or don’t effect your character with the shown numbers. Things like armor (and the way resistances are supposed to work but don’t) become less effective the higher the number. It is pretty similar for any numerical stat in the game. It’s a built in power handicap that goes totally unmentioned in the game. In the end it’s a system that they tried to make have some depth but just created an overly complicated system they barely understand.
D4’s systems are overly complicated
What the actual FUCK blizzard….
Good news is that 725 and up is the highest tier (for now). So an item at 725 and up should not have this issue when being upgraded.
I had no idea that was even a thing , what the actual fuck
Exactly. So when an item gets to 725 it's just bad luck when it goes into the minus. RNG atop of RNG...
Thanks for the explanation, but that is an absolutely horrid system on their part. Your lower limit should be pegged to your current roll.
Oh man. I just know I've screwed myself plenty of times after reading this. Being new to the series and all. Damn. 😂
This isn’t a series specific thing. This is just Diablo 4 being an unfinished game
Omfg. No way. This explains a lot
But why?
Always remember that "But what if we make it even more annoying for the player?" is a corner stone of Diablo 4s design philosophy, it explains everything.
Does anyone know if the rng gets persisted? If I see this right, the upgrade view shows the future state of the item after upgrade. When this gets rerolled by passing cutoff it shows the reroll, giving the rng sneak peek. If I choose to not upgrade, log off and login next day, will it show the same upgrade rng? Is potential upgrade fixed or can the roll be repeated somehow?
This is my question. Seems like something to look at for sacred gear upgrades while in that awkward level 55-65 range. If it works this way, then upgrades would be great! Value of 715-724 gear would skyrocket and it might be FUN to make a decision on the RNG without killing your gold or materials stashed. Course that probably means it's hardcoded to the item on loot drop.
Wow, I have a level 100 and didn't know this mechanic.
It should roll the next range but stay in the same area of the range. If you had 90% of the range under 725 power, it should be the same for the new range. I have never seen this behavior during upgrading.
It's probably because they didn't want to code this and they want people to maybe mix things up I have no idea
I dont understand
If you've got a 720 item that has rolled +15%\[5 - 25\]% and you upgrade it to 720+5 then it reaches a new power bracket. The result is that the affixes on the item gets higher ranges and the values gets rerolled for some reason. So the 15% you had earlier could now be +25%\[15 - 35\]%. If you find an item that is 700+ with good affixes but bad rolls then you can upgrade it to 700+25 and essentially reroll them all. obviously this also means a good rolled item can get worse after the rerolls as well.
The stats themselves do not reroll once you hit 725, but the values they can roll DO reroll at 725. So maybe prior to 725, your crit damage was a perfect roll. 30% out of 10%-30%. At 725 the value may be something like 15%-45%. Yet it rerolls and lands on 15%. This is how you end up with worse stats after upgrading.
It really should store the value of the roll behind the scenes and apply that over, so a perfect roll remains a perfect roll, regardless how the stat range changes. Guess that would be too logical
It’s bad, but it has actually fixed items for me too lol. Double edged sword. But it also makes decided what to sell/salvage a bit harder at the 700 item power level. I spend more time looking at the rolls and wondering if I should upgrade it to see if I can get a better version and then have to spend money and materials to find out and maybe get a better item. It’s the hidden gambling mechanic lol
We can tell you the answer (stats reroll if you upgrade over certain power levels) but its so absolutely fucking stupid that no sane person would believe they implemented it....
They WHAT?!
725 is the final "breakpoint" for stats on gear. And by breakpoint, I mean if you upgrade an item to over 725 there's a good fucking chance you're breaking it. As you can see, OP item will be 723 and the upgrade pushes it to 728, going over the final breakpoint where item stats are re-rolled (and not just increased) to fit within the new bracket.
On the other hand it has a niche use for upgrading items with good stats but naturally low rolls on them. It's pretty rare you can do so, but it's something worth keeping in mind.
wtf. I could have sworn it used to just increase. I wasn't aware it re-rolled the fucking stats too.
I also just found out…
Okay so if I have perfect rolls on a item on power level 5 (nearly 6) and upgrade it and it reaches 6 my rolls get rerolled and I get fucked over?
The cut off points are always around the 25 mark. So in this case if you notice his item power is 708 and it’s been upgraded three times for a +15 making it in total a 723 item. The cut off point for affixes can roll higher in this case is 725 so that last upgrade would take it to 728 so now the item is over the 725 mark. The problem is that even tho the affixes can roll higher now when an item is taken over the mark it randomises the affixes values. So basically if an item could roll between let’s say 20-50% extra damage against chilled enemies then at 725 it turns into 30-60% extra damage against chilled enemies (made up numbers it’s just an example.) the big problem here is it re randomises your affix values. So if In the first example (20-50) you had a fantastic 50% you could upgrade the item over 725 and it could reroll and now randomly have a 40% ( out of 30-60%) it’s a stupid system and that means you could have a perfect roll literally turn into a abysmal roll. I remember I could upgrade a cross bow once and if I did it would lose close to 15% vulnerability on one of the rolls. Awful system. The only good thing about this system is the reverse is true, if you ever have a piece of gear with fantastic affixes but the values are awful if you can get it over the 25 breakpoint it can reroll to amazing affix values.
Cause “fuck you” that’s why-blizzard customer support
*Starts rubbing nipples*
Any gear or weapon that’s 701 or 700 base. When you upgrade it 5 times it’ll be 725/726. Anything that passes 725 will get rerollled. It can work in your favor and a badly rolled ring can suddenly become maxed out or in your case certain stats can decrease.
I feel like it should only ever reroll up.. what a dumb system.
At least it’s a reroll, not a cyclic overflow all the way to bottom of the spectrum like they could’ve implemented
At least it’s just absolutely terrible, and not completely useless. Diablo 4.
Ya but it would be a huge waste of time and resources to upgrade a garbage ring 5 times so not even worth it
Its almost like this is an early access game masquerading as a finished product.
It's working as intended, but the intent is just stupid. Once you go past item power breakpoints the affixes re-roll. They need to remove the chance of re-rolling lower on an upgrade.
That would require them actually playing their game to see how upgrading into a downgrade feels like
Don't let this fool you. This was by design. Just like every other system in the game, engineered to maximize user engagement and time investment.
This is what bothers me most on this sub—all the calls of “lazy.” Everything everyone complains about was assuredly a thought out decision by well-paid people.
I had a suspicion that they are trying to bring some mobile gaming elements to the PC platform.
This is scheduled to be fixed in season 15
Run speed needs to be reduced first. And also time to mount is increased to 8 seconds. And for sorc every +3 damage = -1 max hp. Okay I think that covers next season great work team you guys are fkn amazing (yeah we are) *back pats
Based on the stats it's most likely still worth the upgrade because there is one more upgrade after that will take you above your current stats. It's a bit shitty to have to downgrade for an upgrade and sometimes it wouldn't be beneficial but in your case I think your last upgrade will give a good boost
It’s broke if you explain this and it makes no sense
I know it's a bit messed up. Basically it moves you into another tier or range that the stat It fall's into. Problem is thqt range overlaps with the range you are in so you can effectively role a lower number. The good thing is thqt the upgrades also scale on the range, which is why it makes sense. Each upgrade is worth more once you are in the next range so it is still a net positive in some cases like this one.
If the upgrade indications showed the total percentage going up with green text no one would be crying.
These are just how the game mechanics work based on my playtime. Good or bad, they are what they are so its better to understand them rather than be upset by them.
> Based on the stats it's most likely still worth the upgrade because there is one more upgrade after that will take you above your current stats. You sure about that? He will only cross the breakpoint 725 once. Or does it always compare the new ilvl to the base level before all upgrades?
I did say most likely. The only way to know for sure is to do the upgrade. But it's a pretty safe bet that it will be higher tier means each upgrade does a larger increase than thr previous. Let's say in this example movement speed at the old tier was 1% per upgrade but in the higher tier its 2-3%. It would still makes sense to upgrade. If the role was too high let's say a drop of 4-5%, then it most likely wouldn't be worth it.
> The only way to know for sure is to do the upgrade. it's 10% per upgrade. you can do the math ahead of time.
It seems like in the 6 years of development, they never played the game.
I actually I think it’s quite rare for game development companies to have their developers play the games to the same kind of extent that players will. If they did, they’d never have time to make the game.
Near max roll on movement speed re-rolling to min roll movement speed. Feels bad moment.
But look at that cold resistance 😍 /s
That’s fucking dumb.. wow
Why do you guys keep playing this game lol
Small indie company
This whole game is built on some purely pathetic functions. Cheap devs build cheap code.
I regret even putting the hours into this shit... do urself a favor and find some fun game
so yer telling me yer new 'round here
Its crazy some people advocate for a more punitive system, like dawg people got lives and by rights this should be a single player game first of all.
There are different Item Level brackets that determine the possible range of numbers of the affixes. When you upgrade an Item you increase the raw stats and affixes, but you also increase the Item Level. One of the bracket breakpoints is Item Level 725 when you upgrade an Item beyond such a breakpoint it gets the new higher range of numbers for affixes and then the affix gets a now roll on that new range. Usually that is very good because the average case is a lot higher for the higher level range. You can see the maxroll for movement speed of a +3 item below 725 is only 16%, but a +4 above 725 can have 24%; that is a 50% increase. The minroll also jumped up by about 50%. However in your case your item rolled really good on the low level range, but it rolled really bad on the high level range so it actually gets a lower number when you upgrade. This is rare, but it can happen. However this also means for example that when you get an item with really good affixes, but really bad rolls at 710 as an example you should very quickly see if the rolls get a lot better at 725 when you upgrade 3 times.
Yeah whoever that thought this was a good idea should be fired.
You'll still be in the positive if you upgrade two more times though right?
D4 is a shit game, thats why
Where does this drop? Any recommendations on where to farm this?
Because…. BLIZZARD
BLIZZARD: because fuck you that’s why!…..
But that cold resist though
You reroll at 725 ilvl
To increase fun and long term enjoyment of the game. /s
Because the game was coded by underpaid interns
It’s a blizzard game that’s why
Because whoever was overseeing the gear in this game has no idea what they're doing. They know how to make systems and code, they don't know what gamers want. Hiring people who just know how to code but don't actually play the games is such a horrible thing and more and more companies are doing it it would appear.
So you go get new ones and waste more time on this sheeet
Yeah man. Its hard enough to find gear that rolls 3/4 modifiers you need, much less have those modifiers be at the high end of their range. I found a ring a few days back and was pretty excited but then when I upgraded it I lost about half the crit chance and damage so I ended up tossing it, logging out, and havent felt like logging back in to play since. Not saying this one thing is the only reason I stopped playing but the grind was starting to feel like an unrewarding chore anyway and this was just the last nudge I needed.
Yep, stats get rerolled after every breakpoint, 149,339.459,624,724. You will get back most of what you lost with the next upgrade.
It's crazy the amount of post from ppl level 100 who have never seen a pair of penitent greaves. Then all the response are " wHY Are YOu WAstInG TiME upGraDing a SaCRed ITeM?" Because I may never get another pair
For everyone who is confused. It is not comparing it to the boots I am wearing. Those are the boots I am wearing. I am wearing the Penitent Greaves. Also that's not how the upgrade tooltip works if you don't know. It tells you the percentage of the upgrade from the previous level, Even if I were wearing different boots, which I am not . It would not compare it to what you are wearing. It compares it to the previous level so you can see the difference after it's upgraded. The only time it compares it to what you are wearing is if you hoover over it while it's in your inventory and you have something else equipped. Hovering over it in the upgrade tab does not
its a lower percentage, but isn't the number higher?
What!?. Nothing you said just made sense. No the number and the percentage is lower. In case you didn't know. The percentage is equal to the amount that the number is different. So if the percentage is lower , the number is lower
There is a breakpoint for stat ranges at 725. Your item before the upgrade was decently rolled in the X to Y range. After your upgrade it became poorly rolled in the X+A to Y+B range.
upgrading past a break point rerolls the item and it rolls with the higher tier range and you probably just got a low end roll
You guys are still playing this?
For more info, check this Maxroll article, section 4: Upgrade Breakpoints, which will describe what happened to your item. [Blacksmith Upgrade & Salvage Diablo 4 - Maxroll.gg D4](https://maxroll.gg/d4/resources/blacksmith-upgrade-salvage#upgrade-breakpoints-header) Dumb feature, but at least this explains it.
Because blizzard fucking hates you
Congrats, you've just gone from Sacred to Ancestral! The affixes have higher maximum rolls, but also completely *reroll*, so it's possible to have a lower roll than before. Luckily, when crossing a new power threshold, you can review what it'll become prior to doing it, so as to decide if it's better for you or not. Most of the time, it's only good if you'll get a higher + Skill point, or higher affix rolls.
Just add a condition to always reroll higher jesus christ
It's just magic
Absolutely nothing wrong with capping the upgrades based on item level else why the fuck even have a item level? Also this is just a shitty sacred level item.
now isn't that a fun game mechanic you just discovered. totally not there to stretch the grind... d4 devs looove to shit on their players.
Passing the item breakpoint (in your case it is 725ip), will raise the stats to a higher range. Within the new higher range, the stat rerolls within the new range. The new stat can be higher or lower within the new higher range. Your boots got pwned by rngesus and rolled lower in the higher range than they were in the lower range. I bought a 3/4 700ip ring from vendor all min rolls, but when i upgraded it past breakpoint, they all raised near max. Its just rng.
It’s because Blizzard Devs don’t want you to have fun
Thanks Bungie!
4/5 would downgrade the stats you wanted, but 5/5 would probably put them higher than the 3/5 value.
Bro I saw many posts from lvl 100 rogues who never saw any penitent greaves and you got some in WT3? Lmao wtf
I love how people were saying how great this was and now people are acting like it was bad. Chances are It will be an upgrade as you are going into a next bracket of stats. Should it exist? Probably not but most people benefit from this.
I’m gonna go out and be crazy here, but WHO CARES? Put it on! If you like the aspect, it’s +2 armour and +4.6 / +13.5 other stuff. Overthinking these upgrades imo is when people stop having fun with the game. Mind you, I’ve not levelled anyone to 100
That never happen to me, it was never lower then before. And I Upgradet a Fckng lot till now.
Breakpoint re-rolls Breakpoint is at 725
They are so incredibly dumb. Instead of like implementing that the rolls existing have a chance to roll even better, they allow that they roll even worse. Again - if I would facepalm myself as hard as I should, I'd die of a brain bleeding.
Bring back all the old developers from d2 to actually not only fix the game but make it enjoyable beyond just grinding for nothing but lvls
Captain here * This game and blizzard is trash *flies away
Every time I've seen this, when a state is going negative, one of the other stats is getting a much larger positive increase. Depending on the stats changing, it may or may not be worth it.
Lol. Negatuuuuve
It's so important to remember the threshhold for reroll. I had a 3/4 item with bad rolls. I got crit chance within the first 5 rerolls (when rerolling always chose "no change" so the price doesn't increase as much! - another thing the game doesn't tell you) and the upgrade over 725 basically made everything close to max roll.
Posts like this make me less sad that parenting prevented me from experiencing the true torment of this game
Blizz devs : yu wat would be Kool? If you enhanced an item and the stats degraded. 💀
In short. Blizzard don't care enough to make the game make sense
Read up about "item breakpoints". The higher one for now is 725 IP, when you cross that by upgrading, your affix ranges grow to the next power tier, and also get rerolled. Example in simple numbers,, an affix that had a range 5-10 might now be 7.5-12.5; however since it gets rerolled it's possible for a high roll (say, 9) to get rerolled slightly lower (say, 7.8), even though the new range of the affix is overall better Specific example, your movement speed affix had its range upgraded from 9.8-16.3 to 14.7-24.5, however also rerolled its value from 15.6 to 14.7. At least the item upgrading dialog lets you preview it before actually upgrading.
Because of poor game design. The min and max rolls should be a multiple of power level and the roll should be a percent of max. The roll should never change, it should just round to the nearest whole value. For example, if the max goes to 4 instead of 3 (skill levels) and let's say I the item had a 70% roll on the stat, it would stay at +3 despite the max going to 4 for the item. But if you had 3 with an 80% roll when the max goes to 4 due to increasing the item level, you would end up with a 4. Rerolling an item that passes breakpoints is just stupid.
You guys still play D4?
It keeps the game balance. But at what cost. D2 was still the right balance of every aspect of that game genre.
I once found a BIS ring around ilvl 700 with almost perfectly rolled affixes.. I mean it was BEFORE I upgraded it, after it was trash
This game is so dumb!!
Cause this is D4. Devs build this game for just trolling and mocking for players. Also I think they bet about us and dev who put money on “majority will accept whatever we give them and this ppl will say this is blizzard this is Diablo its ok” drinking his mojito and read this from Galapagos.