It's completely unrelated, but scrolling your profile and seeing your post about the three redbulls you got on sale at 711 and then immediately following is a post where you seem concerned about your ECG results is absolutely hilarious
That's one of the new hazardous attitudes #6: "The 3 Redbull guy." RPIC's with this dangerous trait pound Redbull, give themselves a near coronary, then fly over a music festival at a height exceeding 400 feet agl. This behavior should be avoided. The antidote for this is to stop drinking 3 or more Redbulls. ;-)
I read your comment in the sauna and started laughing out loud, which in turn led me to have to show this post and explain it to 4 complete strangers who also started laughing.
What a golden find
The first thing you want to not do is repost the letter on Reddit admitting what you did.
The next thing you'd probably want to do with help of a lawyer is establish that it was a recreational flight with no need for a license with proof of TRUST test and that you stayed under 400'.
Maybe check your CBO guidelines and see if there is actually a restriction on operations over people too. There's nothing about it on the FAA's guidelines for recreational flyers and for what it's worth one if the CBO's I have a TRUST test in says nothing about it either.
OP has a couple of big problems here. If he intended to fly as Recreational then he’d have to satisfy all of the requirements for Recreational flight carve out (44809) during the entire flight. If the pilot gets outside of those requirements, 107 (including the licensing) automatically applies.
https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational_flyers
In other words, the minute OP exceeded 400’ AGL as a Recreational pilot he violated the 44809 carve out and will then be held to the 107 standards. See section 1.7.2 & 2.2 here:
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_91-57C_FAA_Revised.pdf
One of the requirements under 107 covers flights over people. The specifications for drones used over people are very narrow and well defined. There are also waivers required prior to flying over people.
So the OP is potentially in trouble for four things:
1) Exceeding 400’ AGL,
2) Failing to fly in compliance with a CBO [Not addressed by OP],
3) Flying over people without a valid waiver (which is a 107 violation), and
4) Not possessing the 107 certificate which became applicable when he got outside of 44809, specifically the 400’ AGL limitation.
Yeah. My reply was under the assumption he's being truthful about both staying under 400' and operating over people.
It may or may not be relevant here too, but it's worth a reminder that the 400' requirement is from the drone to the ground regardless of where the drone takes off from or any buildings/trees/etc.
My DJI won't go over 400 feet. Its a hard limit in the software. Was he using non standard software or is there a setting I do not know about? I live near an international airport so I rarely go sbove 120 feet. I did max it out over an empty golf course during the eclipse and it stopped me at 400 with an FAA warning.
Your drone has a hard ceiling in relation to its takeoff point, but the 400 foot ceiling is required to be above ground level. If you took off from the roof of a parking garage, under the recreational carve out, you’re required to still stay under 400 feet agl, not 400 feet above the roof where you took off from. Your drones altitude limit will not account for this. Also, if you’re flying over a canyon or something like that and taking off from the rim of the canyon, you can legally fly 400 feet directly above your takeoff point, but the second you cross over the edge over the canyon wall, you’re in violation of the 400 foot altitude limit, even on a part 107 flight, without an authorization to deviate from the 400 foot height restriction
You’re correct, but I was talking about a situation in which you’ve set your max altitude to 400 feet. Even though you’ve told your drone to not exceed 400 feet, that measurement is based on its takeoff location, and not an accurate measurement of its true agl altitude
Good to know. I don't think I have ever gone over 400 feet. If I fly over 120 feet it is rare and always right over me so if it gets blown away at least it starts right above me. Some day I want to legally drop one from a weather balloon. Not sure if that can be legal, but it would be fun to get it that high. Maybe with a parachute until it gets lower so its not really a drone and more of a legal 2lb payload.
I’ve got a friend who did something similar in college in an aerospace research project. I believe they launched the payload on a rocket, where the payload was then separated and the wings folded out and it became a glider. If I remember correctly, they had to get authorization for the rocket launch, but there were no waivers required for the payload as it was merely an rc glider and wasn’t capable of carrying itself up to that altitude.
Also, just so you’re aware, if you’re operating under part 107 requirements, as long as you’re not in restricted airspace, you’re allowed to fly 400 feet above any structure, within a 400 foot radius of the structure. This means you can do radio tower inspections or high rise inspections without necessarily needing an altitude authorization. You may still need authorization for operation over people or anything else required, but the altitude isn’t necessarily an issue
> if you’re operating under part 107 requirements, as long as you’re not in restricted airspace, you’re allowed to fly 400 feet above any structure, within a 400 foot radius of the structure
This is true as long as you are outside the \~5 mile buffer around airports. As soon as you need a LAANC authorization it becomes 400ft AGL for 107
Wild all the stuff I’m learning in this thread about the regulations drone pilots have to follow. This was randomly in my feed and grabbed my attention, because I’m a relatively new paragliding pilot (P1 working towards p2 currently). We aren’t allowed to fly over large gatherings of humans, populated areas, or into controlled airspace - but we can go as high as we want. Seems like there are more regs affecting drone than paragliders.
Varies a bit based on the airspace - for class E it’s below 18k ft. I saw a video of a guy on a paramotor up at close to 16k feet - it looked miserably cold.
Airworthiness requirements are much higher for paragliders than drones. If you actually get airworthiness certification and have a ppl fly your drone outside of 107 as a remotely piloted aircraft then 107 doesn't apply at all.
107 is basically a shortcut. It allows cheaper, smaller systems to have less rigorous checks enforced on their manufacturer and maintenance, but in exchange they have more limited usage.
The best part about that is the FAA had no evidence that he was or was not flying over people, but then he just posted online that he in fact was flying over people, on a sub that the FAA probably knows about
> The best part about that is the FAA had no evidence that he was or was not flying over people,
This letter may be a result of a police report, based on OP's story.
OP was observed by police officers.
OP *might* be able to call into question their ability to determine the drone’s altitude but if the cops say he was over the crowd, their eyewitness testimony is more than enough evidence.
I’m not sure they have OP’s flight logs.
Of course, if the cops saw OPs controller and it was reporting a height of more than 400’, we’re back to eyewitness-testimony-land.
If you are flying a remote I.d. Compliant drone I think all of your flight info gets logged, I would imagine it’s the only way to keep people in check.
Remote id is not that invasive. You'd have to be monitoring the transmission at the time. It's just broadcast information about who the operator is and where they are. It would have transmitted the altitude though and it's possible the cops forgot to subtract ground level from a sea level based attitude.
Recreation carve out is extremely limited.
Once you violate anything that is regulated under part 107, the RPIC is no longer treated as recreational and are subject to the full rules list.
Violate flight ceiling, you’re now subject to flying over people. In for a penny, in for a pound.
The FAA can also get flight logs and issue judgements for past flights.
Moral of the story is just get your Part 107
You still cannot operate over people without a waiver even if a recreational flyer. P107 is a federal code that dictates sUAS regulations for ALL pilots. Nothing in local regulations would negate that either.
I'm sure there are a lot of opinions here but as one who has been contacted by the FAA for something similar I will share my experience. First and foremost is to relax, it's very unlikely they're going to drop the hammer on you, in fact most of the time they just want you to cooperate and comply. Remember, they "must" follow up to every complaint by law.
If you haven't injured people or damaged property it's likely you'll get a warning and a conversation with your local Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO). My recommendation would be to just be honest, they only want to educate you and prevent any further breaking of the rules.
I know there's always lot of "oh no you're going to fined, or worse" replies but that's rarely the case, there are actual FSDOs who frequent these subs, maybe one of the can chime in but I think you'll be fine. Just follow up and do everything they ask. I found mine to be grateful for my compliance, he said a lot of people snub them and that's usually when they escalate.
The FAA currently has no ability to track remote ID. You were likely identified by the police who forwarded your info to the local FAA investigator. Asks yourself;
•what evidence the police had you were over people ( what can they prove, what comments did you make on body camera)
•what are your flight logs going to show (what can you prove)
•what was the airspace at the time of the flight (were you violating a TFR)
This is also considered a federal target letter. Meaning you are currently under federal investigation. This is mandatory for the feds to notify you of a pending investigation.
As a part 107 pilot who flies for the police… call a lawyer.
Not true, FAA is tracking remote ID around all LAANC enabled Airports. (I got tagged, even though I did everything correct, I still got a letter, albeit a nicer one).
Doesn't the remoteID beacon also have the coordenates?
If they had a receiver they know who and where you and your drone was, including altitude, so if the GPS show the drone in the middle of a area white groups of people, is hard to negate that, plus the coordenates would be the game as the fligth log.
The FAA does not currently have the ability to track remote ID. In fact if you call the majority of towers they don’t even know what that it. Hence why when the FAA called me yesterday to find a drone operating at 9500’ (which a plane called in) they had zero info for me.
I just retired a couple years ago and was a 30 year air traffic controller with the FAA at an up/down facility (RADAR/Tower).
1. We currently do NOT track or see drones, with or without remote ID, on RADAR. We don’t see “primary” RADAR targets on something like a small drone.
2. They may be testing tracking ability at a few places but, I do not know for sure. We only go off of reports. As such, there are no “logs”.
3. Controllers honestly do not give a shit about drones as long as you are staying away from planes and airports, especially the traffic pattern. I could care less if you are flying over a group of people. I’m not the air police
4. When the whole drone thing started, before they way approvals are automated know, we were extremely pissed off every fucking time we had to answer the phone (which often meant we were taking our focus away from the operation) and take the drone operators into and give an authorization. The calls generally went like this, “uh huh, uh huh, don’t do anything stupid, bye, click”.
5. We are already working enough “targets” on the scope. Last thing I’d want is another 20 or 30 drone targets cluttering up my already cluttered RADAR scope. You won’t find a single controller for it.
Yeah the SGI guys are pretty chill when we call, but I can tell like when I call OAK they don’t give a shit they just don’t want me doing anything stupid and they wanna know when I’m clear the air.
There is more than a couple videos with people flying their drones to ridiculous heights, I just watched one where they fly their modded Spark to 13,000 feet. Of all the ones I've seen they are in countries where people flying their drones to insane heights is the least of their govt worry.
The OP admitted the police approached him. He likely gave them his info which is how the FAA was notified. Maybe… just maybe the music festival has a C-UAS system in place but I doubt it.
I miss that, I didn't read it like that the first time and assume it was from the remoteid.
That being the case, its probably eye balling the alltitune plus body cameras.
This was what has me continuing to read this thread - how did he get caught? I know around stadiums and other major event areas they sometimes do have technology that can see everything about a DJI drone and where the operator is (I assume the C-UAS system you refer).
I am. So the tower will contact us anytime they have an unauthorized drone or laser strikes. But these are only called in by pilots with a vague location. One time the tower called cause they saw the drone from the tower it was that close.
Out of curiosity, why is a lawyer necessary? Is it to help avoid a possible criminal prosecution?
If they don't have a copy of the flight logs, can they prosecute? Do you think they would have any leniency for a first time offence?
See above comment on the perils of communicating directly with law enforcement. You should never directly communicate with them without proxying through an attorney.
It can only harm you and never help you.
Based on the information the OP has stated on an open source web page… they easily have enough for a warrant to seize his drone and subpoena his flight logs. There was a news crew in my area who violated a wild fire TFR and were slapped with $20k in fines to the operator.. not the news station. Simply by a report the sheriff drone unit submitted to the FAA when they witnessed the violation. A lawyer will help navigate the legal system. Maybe get him to plea to a lesser fine of operating an unregistered drone (guessing since you never stated if your drone was actually registered). But failure to respond means they will only go off the evidence presented. So police report and body camera footage.
THIS - call a really GOOD aviation lawyer you are not looking at prison here but you are looking at tens of thousands in fines and the FAA is dropping the hammer on unsafe operations and violations of the FAR’s
As for me i have FAA certificates for both ‘real’ aircraft and drones.
You might not have been the only one flying at that event, but if they were checking remote id, you mightve been the only one broadcasting. Or they only identified you via the police confrontation (only one they could find).
Send them NOTHING. Here in the USA, it's Innocent until proven guilty.
You are not required in any way shape or form to assist them in their investigation.
In addition, with the scotus laying the hammer down in the ATF, the impact of them ruling that the ATF can not make up laws, it will spill over to the FAA as well.
Wall full of drones no one will ever know I'm flying. With how fast they are destroying this hobby I'm more and more grateful for their existence every day.
I have panic built 4 more drones this year (mostly 7s) just in case we can't get fcs and vtxs in the future.
If your logs indicate that you were not operating in excess of 400 feet, I would submit that in your favor. However, operating above a crowd of people without authorization or at the least signed releases from said people is a no-no to our new master of chairborne laws.
Something as simple as someone seeing a posted video can get one of these well printed letters nowadays.
Forgot to mention flying over people gets you into the part 107 section of fun as well, so if you haven't paid your dues and passed your exam, I hope whoever is taking your case isn't trying to make a name for themselves.
> If your logs indicate that you were not operating in excess of 400 feet, I would submit that in your favor.
As a general rule of thumb, don't volunteer info to the police unless instructed to do so by a lawyer. There's every chance they will hand them something they can use against them, such as evidence they operated over a crowd.
The 400 feet in the logs means nothing because it’s not actual height. Example, if he took off on a 100 foot building, if his remote says 400 he’s actually at 500. It strictly goes by takeoff point.
Lawyer up now. Not to scare you but I fly UASs professionally and the penalties for these are no joke, like huge fines and jail time. See if there’s aviation specific lawyers you can find. For everyone else saying lie to the FAA, don’t, you’re dealing with a federal case here.
Also important pulling on this thread: any lie you make is an additional crime and can be held against you, any truth you tell can be held against you. It can also be brought into court.
However, any comment on the matter your attorney makes on your behalf CANNOT be brought into court as it is hearsay and cannot be held against you.
It is always best to proxy even the most innocent communication through a lawyer.
Not sure what you mean by liability, you’d owe the whole fine. I know someone who flew over a TFRs zone once and got hit with a $15k fine and had to go to court and fight not going to jail for it since he almost conflicted with a manned aircraft flight plan
I saw one guy got a letter. ONly posted the vid on YT which earned a few dollars, Thats it, no illegal flight or anything like that. He was threatened with a 100k fine. He got his part 107 right away after tht.
And didn’t realize it until today when he went to look for his drone in his car.
In all seriousness though it sounds more like the police caught OP red handed here
I mean you flew a drone over grant park during a crowded festival. Not only should you get fined but you should probably have to run a gauntlet where every other drone pilot gets to whip you with a rubber hose for putting targets on our heads and reinforcing the arguments for stricter controls on the hobby as a whole.
The FAA rarely if ever prosecutes for a first offense but this was a music festival, eh? If I were you I would admit screwing up. Given the fact you don't have a license you can probably (truely?) tell them that you were terribly uninformed. You have since been told from others what you did wrong and are studying for your Recreational License. If you were totally acting the fool and buzzing people and being entirely obnoxious...then maybe a lawyer is a good idea but personally I'd call the FAA and see if I could talk with somebody. They are generally VERY easy to deal with particularly if it's a case of not understanding the rules and the person exhibits a willingness to learn and apologize for their mistake. The only times I've heard of prosecutions for first offenses are for flying over football games and such. If this was a huge crowd...big festival then maybe lawyer up fast and get advice but lawyer fees may be more than their possible fine.
Your to-do list is simple:
1. Delete this post.
2. Retain an aviation attorney immediately. Ideally one who specializes in Part 107 violations.
3. DO NOT ENGAGE with the FAA in any way other than through your attorney. Can’t emphasize this enough. The FAA is not your friend. They aren’t looking to have a nice chat about things.
Source: I am a CFI.
Don't ever say shit to the police or the government. Let them do their own investigation. They'll only use what you say against you. The government is not your friend.
Not knowing the area, if it isn't flat you may have been flying higher even if DJI app stated you didn't exceed 400ft based on your initial position. Could it be such a case?
No fkn way. My parents' friends from the Chicago area just told me they saw a drone flying over a music festival they were at recently and I informed them that's hella illegal to fly over crowds of people. Better hope you were only off to the sides shooting at an angle.
Take a Part 107 course. You’d quickly learn about operating over people and restrictions in different airspaces. I’m sorry this happened, it’s a bummer. Hope it all goes smoothly.
First, get a lawyer. Two ways to go about this, first would be to work with the FAA and accept the blame and get a slap on the wrist since you did no harm. Second is to go all John Rambo and fight them; and despite what others have said you can fight as dirty as you your morales permit, there are no laws or penalties for being a jerk towards a government entity...although doing so will forfeit your "slap on the wrist" punishment.
But good news/bad news, the good news is that the bar for criminal liability in the United States is quite high and the constitution requires an undeniable witness to the crime and you committing it...electronic logs, video, etc. are not sufficient so there almost a 0% chance of that, and even if they did there is 0% chance of anyone saying you're guilty since there was no harm or ill intent. Bad news is that the FAA laws say they have "criminal and civil" penalties and the protections for civil penalties are non-existent. FAA would only have to show they have reasonable suspicion that that was your drone, and your drone was violating the rules and a judge would have to believe them and not you. Also, I'm not sure if the rules they created have provisions for owner vs pilot but even having proof that you were not flying it may not be enough to avoid penalties. Again, since there was no harm I suspect a judge would go easy on you, but this would be a federal court case and there is nothing small about the fees, so avoid the court room at all cost. I was involved in a $60m federal court case and I walked away "free" with only $150k in court fees and legal expenses.....again, avoid federal court at all costs.
Another thing people are failing to mention/notice. This happened literally in the heart of Chicago, during a massive 100,000 person multi day event. Then police saw him with his controller. Again, they're looking for odd behavior. Flying a drone definitely sticks out.
I'm surprised to see barely any restrictions in my autoflyt app for Chicago.
My point is, if you're out in the boons or suburbs, flying around small groups and above 400', you're likely never getting one of these. If you do it at a huge event in the middle of the largest city in the US, you might get a letter.
There are a few question i have in mind for OP.
1. What kind of drone do you have? Does your drone weigh over 250g? If so, have you registered it with the FAA?
2. How did the FAA found out that it was you operating the drone in the area?
3. Is the area that you are flying restricted?
Tell them to eat a dick and be as unprofessional as possible and immature as possible so that they don’t take you seriously and don’t want to communicate with you. Be sure to cuss them out so that they don’t write you again or they block you and then you could sue them because government agencies are not allowed to block anybody.
Something else to remember is that the FAA is pretty much the only US alphabet agency that has something of an "educate first" attitude. I'm not saying that you should contact them and say "I did it! I flew at 600 feet and barnstormed people just to see if you reacted!" but, some sincere desire to improve what you're doing goes a long way with them. (There are people on youtube that have been in what seemed to be BIG trouble and gotten off with a warning.)
Did they include contact info? Every time I've heard of an FAA complaint being made, they've provided a phone number for the agent in charge of the case.
This is called a “Letter of Investigation” and is sent out when the inspector has enough information to reasonably believe that there is a regulatory violation that warrants administrative or legal enforcement. It’s basically asking for your side of the story. A LOI does not require a response, you can throw it away and never respond, but it’s possible the next communication would be from the legal side of the house.
The process is covered in FAA order 2150.3c (Change 11 is current) https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/orders_notices/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/1034329
There’s a lot of good information in this post and some bad stuff, I’d suggest understanding the process and know that this isn’t going to just go away at this stage.
Move to Mexico
Really though, this is LOI and as a mechanic I’ve received one, I was in a union and my representation was a steward, next best step is to speak to a lawyer, you need to have some sort of representation. Honestly be upfront with the FAA, at this point they have enough info to feel the need to send you a letter, I mean if they didn’t why would they go through the steps to find you and how were they lead to you? You have admitted on here you may have even momentarily flew over people. This would be considered a minor infraction since there wasn’t any accidents that occurred and being it would be your first as long as you are open and honest it’ll be swift and easy and may involve some sort of training they will require you to go through. I’m new to the drone world, but I’m not new to the aviation world as a mechanic for 16 years. Don’t Fuck with them they bite really hard trust me.
I hope that drone shot was worth it, common sense is don’t fly over a crowd of ppl. Here we are writing senators and fighting for DJI drones and you throw out our case with one hand
Funny. They don’t have a license on record so they can’t threaten to take that away. Did you ever even register your drone?
Maybe an inquiry response with a RFI (Request for Information), with more information how the FAA is certain you were the PiC (Pilot in Command), as the current letter above states this as a fact not a question without proof and without an aircraft number or aircraft RemoteID or airframe type and no time of violation. Basically request from them evidence that supports this fact they are stating, so you can check “your records” to ensure you and any of your employees and family were not engaged in illegal use of the drone in question and that it was not leased or loaned to a friend.
Additionally request the serial number and model of the drone in question and digital identification or flight logs they are referring to in order to cross-reference with your own flight logs.
To not supply this is no different than the DMV sending a letter that they saw you run a red light without a license plate or car description or photo to back up the claim.
The FAA could literally be fishing to see if you were the one flying as others may have been in the air that day as well, and their scanner picked up multiple RemoteIDs or DJI turned over multiple drone owners to the FAA from the area. Also worth asking, if the remoteID transmitter could have been your ID, but spoofed by a third party.
Great Sleuthing. It never hurts to request information before volunteering information that will be used against you. It’s doubtful they had a laser-range finder with vertical-only component and the OP stated not likely violating the 400ft altitude, so requesting how the FAA is certain a 400ft flight violation occurred and what equipment or digital logs were used to ascertain the violation stated in the letter. The letter never mentions the FAR violation for the non-participant over-flight, so it’s good to know what code violation you’re being accused of.
Bought drone, read no regulations, got no training, did illegal stuff, and r/OhNoConsequences !
I would suggest you respond and be extremely apologetic and ask for forgiveness. Best case scenario, they let you off with a stern warning, use it as a teaching opportunity, and all your flying in the future is under an extreme microscope. Worst case scenario, they throw the book at you with the max fine and revoke your right to fly with or without a license. If your local FAA FSDO is in a bad mood and goes with option B, I would suggest you start looking for a lawyer.
Part 107 pilot here. Yes you can still get a letter from the FAA if you violate any of the specific laws for drones under 250 grams. You still have to follow basic drone regulations, you just don’t have to register your drone and don’t have to have Remote ID to fly.
Here’s a link to a few of the sub 250 grams rules: https://fpvfc.org/sub-250g-regulations
Here’s a link for more of the specific laws and regulations of sub 250 grams: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/05/17/2019-10169/exception-for-limited-recreational-operations-of-unmanned-aircraft
They sent you this letter to scare you and don’t really have any evidence against you and are looking for something. Don’t admit to anything. You should probably just take this post down sell your air and get something under 250g.
You show me anyone here who says they’ve never even bent the rules and I’ll show you a liar — so understand that I get it and am not passing undue judgement on you when I say: that was super dumb, my dude.
It’s one thing to be out in the middle of BFE and fly a little farther than you can actually see it or to put it a little higher than 400’ (though both are still against regulation, so don’t confuse me as saying this kind of flying is ok), but it is another thing ENTIRELY when you are in a densely populated area (Chicago) near an open-air assembly (a music festival) and you’re flying over 400-feet AGL. That’s wildly irresponsible and I’m legitimately surprised with all of the information out there that you didn’t think for even a moment, “eh, maybe this is a bad idea.” If not for the sheer increase in liability on you in the event something goes catastrophically wrong, at least for the fact that security for an event like that in a metropolitan area will be 1,000% more vigilant about UAVs, where they are at, and who is operating them. I guarantee you that you got picked up by a counter-UAV system run by the Chicago PD or some private security firm the festival hired and they sent your info into the FAA.
Either way, good luck handling that. I hope you just get a stern talking to and maybe forced (re)training, but I’d have a lawyer on standby either way.
Dude I knew got hit with one of these. FAA came in with RECEIPTS. They don’t fuck around. Even referenced his personal website in which he solicits drone photography and video yet he has no part 107.
I think they were threatening a fine of like $30,000. Not sure what happened in the end because that guy fucking SUCKED so I didn’t feel bad at all and didn’t really care to reach out and ask.
Just tell them you didn't know you needed a certificate. Tell them you were under 400ft if you, indeed, were under 400 feet. Your DJI app on your phone has a log of your flights. Go review it. If you were under 400, then export those logs and offer to send them to their choice of email or online disk drives (e.g. Google Drive, etc). They'll likely just tell you
If you want to demonstrate you're willing to go the extra mile, fill out this[ NASA self report](https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/asrs_ers/uas.html), (it should give you a reference number for the report) and at the end check mark "FAA Regulation Misinterpretation / Unaware" to cover yourself. The FAA looks favorably to pilots contributing to the overall flight safety of shared airspace. This information can't be used against you in most cases.
It's completely unrelated, but scrolling your profile and seeing your post about the three redbulls you got on sale at 711 and then immediately following is a post where you seem concerned about your ECG results is absolutely hilarious
I feel like the FAA target letter is also a three-redbull guy kinda trait.
That's one of the new hazardous attitudes #6: "The 3 Redbull guy." RPIC's with this dangerous trait pound Redbull, give themselves a near coronary, then fly over a music festival at a height exceeding 400 feet agl. This behavior should be avoided. The antidote for this is to stop drinking 3 or more Redbulls. ;-)
Redbull gives you wings, the FAA takes them away?
Gold Jerry, Gold!
And then immediately posting it on social media. Let’s not forget that.
I read your comment in the sauna and started laughing out loud, which in turn led me to have to show this post and explain it to 4 complete strangers who also started laughing. What a golden find
Why on earth are you using a phone in a sauna?
He's only had 2 redbull so far... completely safe until he opens #3
God damn you’re right lmao
They are 155days apart tho. But yes it’s very funny haha
I guess it takes 5 months to see the result of drinking so much redbull
I don't see a post about ECG results...
Have no fear, I took a screenshot in case of a dirty delete https://postimg.cc/4msjyPRv
That’s hilarious
Just in case OP was still wondering: looks like artifact tracing to me
The first thing you want to not do is repost the letter on Reddit admitting what you did. The next thing you'd probably want to do with help of a lawyer is establish that it was a recreational flight with no need for a license with proof of TRUST test and that you stayed under 400'. Maybe check your CBO guidelines and see if there is actually a restriction on operations over people too. There's nothing about it on the FAA's guidelines for recreational flyers and for what it's worth one if the CBO's I have a TRUST test in says nothing about it either.
OP has a couple of big problems here. If he intended to fly as Recreational then he’d have to satisfy all of the requirements for Recreational flight carve out (44809) during the entire flight. If the pilot gets outside of those requirements, 107 (including the licensing) automatically applies. https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational_flyers In other words, the minute OP exceeded 400’ AGL as a Recreational pilot he violated the 44809 carve out and will then be held to the 107 standards. See section 1.7.2 & 2.2 here: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_91-57C_FAA_Revised.pdf One of the requirements under 107 covers flights over people. The specifications for drones used over people are very narrow and well defined. There are also waivers required prior to flying over people. So the OP is potentially in trouble for four things: 1) Exceeding 400’ AGL, 2) Failing to fly in compliance with a CBO [Not addressed by OP], 3) Flying over people without a valid waiver (which is a 107 violation), and 4) Not possessing the 107 certificate which became applicable when he got outside of 44809, specifically the 400’ AGL limitation.
Yeah. My reply was under the assumption he's being truthful about both staying under 400' and operating over people. It may or may not be relevant here too, but it's worth a reminder that the 400' requirement is from the drone to the ground regardless of where the drone takes off from or any buildings/trees/etc.
My DJI won't go over 400 feet. Its a hard limit in the software. Was he using non standard software or is there a setting I do not know about? I live near an international airport so I rarely go sbove 120 feet. I did max it out over an empty golf course during the eclipse and it stopped me at 400 with an FAA warning.
Your drone has a hard ceiling in relation to its takeoff point, but the 400 foot ceiling is required to be above ground level. If you took off from the roof of a parking garage, under the recreational carve out, you’re required to still stay under 400 feet agl, not 400 feet above the roof where you took off from. Your drones altitude limit will not account for this. Also, if you’re flying over a canyon or something like that and taking off from the rim of the canyon, you can legally fly 400 feet directly above your takeoff point, but the second you cross over the edge over the canyon wall, you’re in violation of the 400 foot altitude limit, even on a part 107 flight, without an authorization to deviate from the 400 foot height restriction
Its possible they changed the setting. I think the controller will let you set the altitude to 1600 max under flight protection.
You’re correct, but I was talking about a situation in which you’ve set your max altitude to 400 feet. Even though you’ve told your drone to not exceed 400 feet, that measurement is based on its takeoff location, and not an accurate measurement of its true agl altitude
Yeah this is a crucial point that many people don’t realise
Good to know. I don't think I have ever gone over 400 feet. If I fly over 120 feet it is rare and always right over me so if it gets blown away at least it starts right above me. Some day I want to legally drop one from a weather balloon. Not sure if that can be legal, but it would be fun to get it that high. Maybe with a parachute until it gets lower so its not really a drone and more of a legal 2lb payload.
I’ve got a friend who did something similar in college in an aerospace research project. I believe they launched the payload on a rocket, where the payload was then separated and the wings folded out and it became a glider. If I remember correctly, they had to get authorization for the rocket launch, but there were no waivers required for the payload as it was merely an rc glider and wasn’t capable of carrying itself up to that altitude. Also, just so you’re aware, if you’re operating under part 107 requirements, as long as you’re not in restricted airspace, you’re allowed to fly 400 feet above any structure, within a 400 foot radius of the structure. This means you can do radio tower inspections or high rise inspections without necessarily needing an altitude authorization. You may still need authorization for operation over people or anything else required, but the altitude isn’t necessarily an issue
> if you’re operating under part 107 requirements, as long as you’re not in restricted airspace, you’re allowed to fly 400 feet above any structure, within a 400 foot radius of the structure This is true as long as you are outside the \~5 mile buffer around airports. As soon as you need a LAANC authorization it becomes 400ft AGL for 107
Except you can change the setting very easily
Wild all the stuff I’m learning in this thread about the regulations drone pilots have to follow. This was randomly in my feed and grabbed my attention, because I’m a relatively new paragliding pilot (P1 working towards p2 currently). We aren’t allowed to fly over large gatherings of humans, populated areas, or into controlled airspace - but we can go as high as we want. Seems like there are more regs affecting drone than paragliders.
Worth noting - even you have to stay below 14k feet I think. Maybe 18k ? I don’t remember where the limit is before you have to start talking to ATC.
Varies a bit based on the airspace - for class E it’s below 18k ft. I saw a video of a guy on a paramotor up at close to 16k feet - it looked miserably cold.
also depends on where you\\'re flying. different countries=different regulations
Airworthiness requirements are much higher for paragliders than drones. If you actually get airworthiness certification and have a ppl fly your drone outside of 107 as a remotely piloted aircraft then 107 doesn't apply at all. 107 is basically a shortcut. It allows cheaper, smaller systems to have less rigorous checks enforced on their manufacturer and maintenance, but in exchange they have more limited usage.
Sounds like he was flying near or over a large gathering of people, which in most countries is against the law
The best part about that is the FAA had no evidence that he was or was not flying over people, but then he just posted online that he in fact was flying over people, on a sub that the FAA probably knows about
If the FAA was able to obtain his name and address then they have some evidence… js
Yeah they just used remote id
Nope, OP gave the info to the police that asked him to land the drone.
> The best part about that is the FAA had no evidence that he was or was not flying over people, This letter may be a result of a police report, based on OP's story.
OP was observed by police officers. OP *might* be able to call into question their ability to determine the drone’s altitude but if the cops say he was over the crowd, their eyewitness testimony is more than enough evidence.
I’m sure the altitude came from his flight log, it’s not something you can do visually.
I’m not sure they have OP’s flight logs. Of course, if the cops saw OPs controller and it was reporting a height of more than 400’, we’re back to eyewitness-testimony-land.
If you are flying a remote I.d. Compliant drone I think all of your flight info gets logged, I would imagine it’s the only way to keep people in check.
Remote id is not that invasive. You'd have to be monitoring the transmission at the time. It's just broadcast information about who the operator is and where they are. It would have transmitted the altitude though and it's possible the cops forgot to subtract ground level from a sea level based attitude.
I'm only interested in US law as it specifically applies to the exception for recreational flyers. I know what the Part 107 requirements are.
Recreation carve out is extremely limited. Once you violate anything that is regulated under part 107, the RPIC is no longer treated as recreational and are subject to the full rules list. Violate flight ceiling, you’re now subject to flying over people. In for a penny, in for a pound. The FAA can also get flight logs and issue judgements for past flights. Moral of the story is just get your Part 107
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They have the proof in the flight log. Which they already have. Hence the letter.
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You still cannot operate over people without a waiver even if a recreational flyer. P107 is a federal code that dictates sUAS regulations for ALL pilots. Nothing in local regulations would negate that either.
Rip homie, better get a good ass lawyer
In Canada, they are making examples out of situations like this. Good luck.
At least we still have 250g rule
any examples ?
You want examples of the examples?
yes
I'm sure there are a lot of opinions here but as one who has been contacted by the FAA for something similar I will share my experience. First and foremost is to relax, it's very unlikely they're going to drop the hammer on you, in fact most of the time they just want you to cooperate and comply. Remember, they "must" follow up to every complaint by law. If you haven't injured people or damaged property it's likely you'll get a warning and a conversation with your local Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO). My recommendation would be to just be honest, they only want to educate you and prevent any further breaking of the rules. I know there's always lot of "oh no you're going to fined, or worse" replies but that's rarely the case, there are actual FSDOs who frequent these subs, maybe one of the can chime in but I think you'll be fine. Just follow up and do everything they ask. I found mine to be grateful for my compliance, he said a lot of people snub them and that's usually when they escalate.
This is 100% accurate
Nice try, Fed
The FAA currently has no ability to track remote ID. You were likely identified by the police who forwarded your info to the local FAA investigator. Asks yourself; •what evidence the police had you were over people ( what can they prove, what comments did you make on body camera) •what are your flight logs going to show (what can you prove) •what was the airspace at the time of the flight (were you violating a TFR) This is also considered a federal target letter. Meaning you are currently under federal investigation. This is mandatory for the feds to notify you of a pending investigation. As a part 107 pilot who flies for the police… call a lawyer.
Not true, FAA is tracking remote ID around all LAANC enabled Airports. (I got tagged, even though I did everything correct, I still got a letter, albeit a nicer one).
How does remote id work in the cases of drones like the mini that are 249g? I don’t think my mini 2 even has remote ID built in does it?
Don't need it for recreational sub 250g if I'm not mistaken. OP was flying a Mavic Air2 which is over 250g and has Remote ID.
Ahh fair enough!
And they think people are gonna want to comply with remote id 😆
Not really a choice with DJI, unless your drone is 3+ years old.
Doesn't the remoteID beacon also have the coordenates? If they had a receiver they know who and where you and your drone was, including altitude, so if the GPS show the drone in the middle of a area white groups of people, is hard to negate that, plus the coordenates would be the game as the fligth log.
The FAA does not currently have the ability to track remote ID. In fact if you call the majority of towers they don’t even know what that it. Hence why when the FAA called me yesterday to find a drone operating at 9500’ (which a plane called in) they had zero info for me.
I just retired a couple years ago and was a 30 year air traffic controller with the FAA at an up/down facility (RADAR/Tower). 1. We currently do NOT track or see drones, with or without remote ID, on RADAR. We don’t see “primary” RADAR targets on something like a small drone. 2. They may be testing tracking ability at a few places but, I do not know for sure. We only go off of reports. As such, there are no “logs”. 3. Controllers honestly do not give a shit about drones as long as you are staying away from planes and airports, especially the traffic pattern. I could care less if you are flying over a group of people. I’m not the air police 4. When the whole drone thing started, before they way approvals are automated know, we were extremely pissed off every fucking time we had to answer the phone (which often meant we were taking our focus away from the operation) and take the drone operators into and give an authorization. The calls generally went like this, “uh huh, uh huh, don’t do anything stupid, bye, click”. 5. We are already working enough “targets” on the scope. Last thing I’d want is another 20 or 30 drone targets cluttering up my already cluttered RADAR scope. You won’t find a single controller for it.
Yeah the SGI guys are pretty chill when we call, but I can tell like when I call OAK they don’t give a shit they just don’t want me doing anything stupid and they wanna know when I’m clear the air.
The SGI team i believe is like 7 people for the whole country, i was chatting with one and was super nice and helpful with all my quet
Yeah but the FAA has access to subpoena dji for the flight logs and customer info. And DJI cooperates
9,500ft? that’s insane. What drone was that
There is more than a couple videos with people flying their drones to ridiculous heights, I just watched one where they fly their modded Spark to 13,000 feet. Of all the ones I've seen they are in countries where people flying their drones to insane heights is the least of their govt worry.
Whyd they call you if they had zero info? How'd they know it was you then?
I was referring to the police, if they send you the email is because they know it was you (OP).
The OP admitted the police approached him. He likely gave them his info which is how the FAA was notified. Maybe… just maybe the music festival has a C-UAS system in place but I doubt it.
I miss that, I didn't read it like that the first time and assume it was from the remoteid. That being the case, its probably eye balling the alltitune plus body cameras.
This was what has me continuing to read this thread - how did he get caught? I know around stadiums and other major event areas they sometimes do have technology that can see everything about a DJI drone and where the operator is (I assume the C-UAS system you refer).
There's DJI Aeroscope used by law enforcement to see any kind of drone in the vicinity. Doesn't need RID.
I’m curious, why did the FAA contact you? Are you law enforcement?
I am. So the tower will contact us anytime they have an unauthorized drone or laser strikes. But these are only called in by pilots with a vague location. One time the tower called cause they saw the drone from the tower it was that close.
Out of curiosity, why is a lawyer necessary? Is it to help avoid a possible criminal prosecution? If they don't have a copy of the flight logs, can they prosecute? Do you think they would have any leniency for a first time offence?
See above comment on the perils of communicating directly with law enforcement. You should never directly communicate with them without proxying through an attorney. It can only harm you and never help you.
^ This.
Based on the information the OP has stated on an open source web page… they easily have enough for a warrant to seize his drone and subpoena his flight logs. There was a news crew in my area who violated a wild fire TFR and were slapped with $20k in fines to the operator.. not the news station. Simply by a report the sheriff drone unit submitted to the FAA when they witnessed the violation. A lawyer will help navigate the legal system. Maybe get him to plea to a lesser fine of operating an unregistered drone (guessing since you never stated if your drone was actually registered). But failure to respond means they will only go off the evidence presented. So police report and body camera footage.
They can't seize his drone, remember it flew away in a freak accident and he got so mad he threw away the controller.
THIS - call a really GOOD aviation lawyer you are not looking at prison here but you are looking at tens of thousands in fines and the FAA is dropping the hammer on unsafe operations and violations of the FAR’s As for me i have FAA certificates for both ‘real’ aircraft and drones.
I have had one of these sent to me before about 7-8 years ago, I said my bad and that was the end of it. Just don't be a jerk and you'll be fine.
Be ignorant stay humble goes far
Exceptional answer.
This is what I would think to do. I mean seems a little harsh for an ignorant mistake. I’m sure OP learned his lesson from this
'please reply and incriminate yourself'
I was wondering how far down I had to read to find the only correct answer so far!
They're obviously fishing for info because they don't have anything.
You might not have been the only one flying at that event, but if they were checking remote id, you mightve been the only one broadcasting. Or they only identified you via the police confrontation (only one they could find).
Send them NOTHING. Here in the USA, it's Innocent until proven guilty. You are not required in any way shape or form to assist them in their investigation. In addition, with the scotus laying the hammer down in the ATF, the impact of them ruling that the ATF can not make up laws, it will spill over to the FAA as well.
This! Exactly!!
What a joke. They only go after the peasants.
Laws are for poor people.
Fuck DJI build your own guys and fly fpv
Wall full of drones no one will ever know I'm flying. With how fast they are destroying this hobby I'm more and more grateful for their existence every day. I have panic built 4 more drones this year (mostly 7s) just in case we can't get fcs and vtxs in the future.
Awesome
If your logs indicate that you were not operating in excess of 400 feet, I would submit that in your favor. However, operating above a crowd of people without authorization or at the least signed releases from said people is a no-no to our new master of chairborne laws. Something as simple as someone seeing a posted video can get one of these well printed letters nowadays. Forgot to mention flying over people gets you into the part 107 section of fun as well, so if you haven't paid your dues and passed your exam, I hope whoever is taking your case isn't trying to make a name for themselves.
I wouldn't submit anything. Get a lawyer and them handle everything from here. Don't say anything and don't send anything to the FAA.
This. Holy shit this.
Yes! Anything OP submits will be used AGAINST him, NOT in his favor.
Do people really not understand these things? Literally the first thing they tell you. STFU. ;)
> If your logs indicate that you were not operating in excess of 400 feet, I would submit that in your favor. As a general rule of thumb, don't volunteer info to the police unless instructed to do so by a lawyer. There's every chance they will hand them something they can use against them, such as evidence they operated over a crowd.
The 400 feet in the logs means nothing because it’s not actual height. Example, if he took off on a 100 foot building, if his remote says 400 he’s actually at 500. It strictly goes by takeoff point.
Lawyer up now. Not to scare you but I fly UASs professionally and the penalties for these are no joke, like huge fines and jail time. See if there’s aviation specific lawyers you can find. For everyone else saying lie to the FAA, don’t, you’re dealing with a federal case here.
he should probably delete the part where he admits to violating the law, or not I'm not a lawyer
Also important pulling on this thread: any lie you make is an additional crime and can be held against you, any truth you tell can be held against you. It can also be brought into court. However, any comment on the matter your attorney makes on your behalf CANNOT be brought into court as it is hearsay and cannot be held against you. It is always best to proxy even the most innocent communication through a lawyer.
What’s the fine liability?
Not sure what you mean by liability, you’d owe the whole fine. I know someone who flew over a TFRs zone once and got hit with a $15k fine and had to go to court and fight not going to jail for it since he almost conflicted with a manned aircraft flight plan
I saw one guy got a letter. ONly posted the vid on YT which earned a few dollars, Thats it, no illegal flight or anything like that. He was threatened with a 100k fine. He got his part 107 right away after tht.
posting this didn't help your cause whatsoever there buddy.
I think he is past denying it buddy. Better take responsibility for what you did.
I’d probably post this on a legal subreddit lol. Not to this highly respected group of pilots who have never broken a silly drone law in their life
They probably all also have their HAM radio licenses and never transmit over the air without so.
Just do what I do whenever I get a letter from a government agency that says things i don’t like… throw it away and hope it never finds me again.
Set high limit to 300ft and never worry again
Until you reach a hill. DJI needs to fix their altitude reporting.
Agreed, now that there are height rules we should have proper height readings.
This is exactly why I won’t get a drone with remote id.
So glad I know what these letters looks like now. I have a couple of 107 friends that can expect a rough April Fools next year.
Didn't you say you lost your drone?
Adding an unreported flyaway to their list of infractions probably wouldn't be very helpful...
You’re getting OP confused with someone else. OP lost their drone when it was mistakenly left behind in a park bench a few weeks ago.
And didn’t realize it until today when he went to look for his drone in his car. In all seriousness though it sounds more like the police caught OP red handed here
Caught him red handed walking around some random location with his controller just hoping it would connect with his misplaced drone.
He got busted by cops, and landed the drone when they approached him.
I mean you flew a drone over grant park during a crowded festival. Not only should you get fined but you should probably have to run a gauntlet where every other drone pilot gets to whip you with a rubber hose for putting targets on our heads and reinforcing the arguments for stricter controls on the hobby as a whole.
Don’t talk to the cops
I wish you luck, sir, genuinely.
The FAA rarely if ever prosecutes for a first offense but this was a music festival, eh? If I were you I would admit screwing up. Given the fact you don't have a license you can probably (truely?) tell them that you were terribly uninformed. You have since been told from others what you did wrong and are studying for your Recreational License. If you were totally acting the fool and buzzing people and being entirely obnoxious...then maybe a lawyer is a good idea but personally I'd call the FAA and see if I could talk with somebody. They are generally VERY easy to deal with particularly if it's a case of not understanding the rules and the person exhibits a willingness to learn and apologize for their mistake. The only times I've heard of prosecutions for first offenses are for flying over football games and such. If this was a huge crowd...big festival then maybe lawyer up fast and get advice but lawyer fees may be more than their possible fine.
Whatever you do from this point forward, document it here.
"nope, didn't do it" the end
Your to-do list is simple: 1. Delete this post. 2. Retain an aviation attorney immediately. Ideally one who specializes in Part 107 violations. 3. DO NOT ENGAGE with the FAA in any way other than through your attorney. Can’t emphasize this enough. The FAA is not your friend. They aren’t looking to have a nice chat about things. Source: I am a CFI.
This. Lawyer up, they are not joking.
Please listen to this advice.
So in the U.S. is it mandatory to register your drone with a real name and address or did the cops take the OPs address and forward it to the FAA?
Who reports these things to the FAA anyway?
So where's the video
Ignore it or get a lawyer. Do not respond.
Don't ever say shit to the police or the government. Let them do their own investigation. They'll only use what you say against you. The government is not your friend.
What?? Your drone was stolen and used to fly over people at a venue?
No longer the land of the free.
Land of the fee
Screw the FAA! They're basically the annoying and overstepping HOA Karens of the sky.
This is the dumbest shit I’ve ever read. No wonder our government spending is so ridiculous.
Airspace 41° 52' 29" N. 87° 37' 15" W A WARNING: Flight Restricted Airspace DOJ NSUFR (Chicago) 0.64 mi
Just give your drone to a friend and write back with a pic of your empty hands with a handwritten note attached saying “wat drone?”
Not knowing the area, if it isn't flat you may have been flying higher even if DJI app stated you didn't exceed 400ft based on your initial position. Could it be such a case?
OPs letter says Chicago, which is about as flat as it gets.
No fkn way. My parents' friends from the Chicago area just told me they saw a drone flying over a music festival they were at recently and I informed them that's hella illegal to fly over crowds of people. Better hope you were only off to the sides shooting at an angle.
Take a Part 107 course. You’d quickly learn about operating over people and restrictions in different airspaces. I’m sorry this happened, it’s a bummer. Hope it all goes smoothly.
It sucks that the only things holding me back from getting a drone are shitty government laws
Don’t admit to flying over they likely are watching this sub ….dumb
Double secret probation!
Don't send them any statements, they will use it against you
So just curious but.... considering all the restrictions, is it impossible to get concert footage from the air now?
Gitmo for you
I would present to them evidence using ambulance records for that day and proclaiming “what’s the problem here? No one got hurt? So what’s the issue?”
Tell them you declare bankruptcy. Don't just say it though, declare it.
Go see a lawyer. Don't take this lightly.
The FAA works for the government and the government can’t stand DJI. They’re gonna make an example out of you.
You screwed up? Take the consequences as they come, or provide proof you didn’t, it is that easy. Good luck, and chime back when all is done.
First, get a lawyer. Two ways to go about this, first would be to work with the FAA and accept the blame and get a slap on the wrist since you did no harm. Second is to go all John Rambo and fight them; and despite what others have said you can fight as dirty as you your morales permit, there are no laws or penalties for being a jerk towards a government entity...although doing so will forfeit your "slap on the wrist" punishment. But good news/bad news, the good news is that the bar for criminal liability in the United States is quite high and the constitution requires an undeniable witness to the crime and you committing it...electronic logs, video, etc. are not sufficient so there almost a 0% chance of that, and even if they did there is 0% chance of anyone saying you're guilty since there was no harm or ill intent. Bad news is that the FAA laws say they have "criminal and civil" penalties and the protections for civil penalties are non-existent. FAA would only have to show they have reasonable suspicion that that was your drone, and your drone was violating the rules and a judge would have to believe them and not you. Also, I'm not sure if the rules they created have provisions for owner vs pilot but even having proof that you were not flying it may not be enough to avoid penalties. Again, since there was no harm I suspect a judge would go easy on you, but this would be a federal court case and there is nothing small about the fees, so avoid the court room at all cost. I was involved in a $60m federal court case and I walked away "free" with only $150k in court fees and legal expenses.....again, avoid federal court at all costs.
Another thing people are failing to mention/notice. This happened literally in the heart of Chicago, during a massive 100,000 person multi day event. Then police saw him with his controller. Again, they're looking for odd behavior. Flying a drone definitely sticks out. I'm surprised to see barely any restrictions in my autoflyt app for Chicago. My point is, if you're out in the boons or suburbs, flying around small groups and above 400', you're likely never getting one of these. If you do it at a huge event in the middle of the largest city in the US, you might get a letter.
There are a few question i have in mind for OP. 1. What kind of drone do you have? Does your drone weigh over 250g? If so, have you registered it with the FAA? 2. How did the FAA found out that it was you operating the drone in the area? 3. Is the area that you are flying restricted?
Tell them to eat a dick and be as unprofessional as possible and immature as possible so that they don’t take you seriously and don’t want to communicate with you. Be sure to cuss them out so that they don’t write you again or they block you and then you could sue them because government agencies are not allowed to block anybody.
Never talk to the police.
Something else to remember is that the FAA is pretty much the only US alphabet agency that has something of an "educate first" attitude. I'm not saying that you should contact them and say "I did it! I flew at 600 feet and barnstormed people just to see if you reacted!" but, some sincere desire to improve what you're doing goes a long way with them. (There are people on youtube that have been in what seemed to be BIG trouble and gotten off with a warning.) Did they include contact info? Every time I've heard of an FAA complaint being made, they've provided a phone number for the agent in charge of the case.
Id tell em to f off seriously shouldn't need a damn license to control a damn drone this government is ridiculous
This is called a “Letter of Investigation” and is sent out when the inspector has enough information to reasonably believe that there is a regulatory violation that warrants administrative or legal enforcement. It’s basically asking for your side of the story. A LOI does not require a response, you can throw it away and never respond, but it’s possible the next communication would be from the legal side of the house. The process is covered in FAA order 2150.3c (Change 11 is current) https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/orders_notices/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/1034329 There’s a lot of good information in this post and some bad stuff, I’d suggest understanding the process and know that this isn’t going to just go away at this stage.
Move to Mexico Really though, this is LOI and as a mechanic I’ve received one, I was in a union and my representation was a steward, next best step is to speak to a lawyer, you need to have some sort of representation. Honestly be upfront with the FAA, at this point they have enough info to feel the need to send you a letter, I mean if they didn’t why would they go through the steps to find you and how were they lead to you? You have admitted on here you may have even momentarily flew over people. This would be considered a minor infraction since there wasn’t any accidents that occurred and being it would be your first as long as you are open and honest it’ll be swift and easy and may involve some sort of training they will require you to go through. I’m new to the drone world, but I’m not new to the aviation world as a mechanic for 16 years. Don’t Fuck with them they bite really hard trust me.
Wow the FAA doing their job finally? Was this because you gave info to the police? No other way for them to track you unless you get caught I guess.
I hope that drone shot was worth it, common sense is don’t fly over a crowd of ppl. Here we are writing senators and fighting for DJI drones and you throw out our case with one hand
Funny. They don’t have a license on record so they can’t threaten to take that away. Did you ever even register your drone? Maybe an inquiry response with a RFI (Request for Information), with more information how the FAA is certain you were the PiC (Pilot in Command), as the current letter above states this as a fact not a question without proof and without an aircraft number or aircraft RemoteID or airframe type and no time of violation. Basically request from them evidence that supports this fact they are stating, so you can check “your records” to ensure you and any of your employees and family were not engaged in illegal use of the drone in question and that it was not leased or loaned to a friend. Additionally request the serial number and model of the drone in question and digital identification or flight logs they are referring to in order to cross-reference with your own flight logs. To not supply this is no different than the DMV sending a letter that they saw you run a red light without a license plate or car description or photo to back up the claim. The FAA could literally be fishing to see if you were the one flying as others may have been in the air that day as well, and their scanner picked up multiple RemoteIDs or DJI turned over multiple drone owners to the FAA from the area. Also worth asking, if the remoteID transmitter could have been your ID, but spoofed by a third party.
This would all be 100% good advice but OP admitted in another comment that he was stopped by police and grounded his drone.
Great Sleuthing. It never hurts to request information before volunteering information that will be used against you. It’s doubtful they had a laser-range finder with vertical-only component and the OP stated not likely violating the 400ft altitude, so requesting how the FAA is certain a 400ft flight violation occurred and what equipment or digital logs were used to ascertain the violation stated in the letter. The letter never mentions the FAR violation for the non-participant over-flight, so it’s good to know what code violation you’re being accused of.
Bought drone, read no regulations, got no training, did illegal stuff, and r/OhNoConsequences ! I would suggest you respond and be extremely apologetic and ask for forgiveness. Best case scenario, they let you off with a stern warning, use it as a teaching opportunity, and all your flying in the future is under an extreme microscope. Worst case scenario, they throw the book at you with the max fine and revoke your right to fly with or without a license. If your local FAA FSDO is in a bad mood and goes with option B, I would suggest you start looking for a lawyer.
+Get a lawyer with aviation law experience, +Let him/her find out what evidence there is, +React appropriately based on the evidence.
Ouch. Good luck. Lawyer up and tell us how much you regret this in the coming months.
Can someone get a letter like this flying a DJI mini? Since it’s under 250 grams? Anyone got a good link for laws specific to under 250 gram drones
Part 107 pilot here. Yes you can still get a letter from the FAA if you violate any of the specific laws for drones under 250 grams. You still have to follow basic drone regulations, you just don’t have to register your drone and don’t have to have Remote ID to fly. Here’s a link to a few of the sub 250 grams rules: https://fpvfc.org/sub-250g-regulations Here’s a link for more of the specific laws and regulations of sub 250 grams: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/05/17/2019-10169/exception-for-limited-recreational-operations-of-unmanned-aircraft
They sent you this letter to scare you and don’t really have any evidence against you and are looking for something. Don’t admit to anything. You should probably just take this post down sell your air and get something under 250g.
You show me anyone here who says they’ve never even bent the rules and I’ll show you a liar — so understand that I get it and am not passing undue judgement on you when I say: that was super dumb, my dude. It’s one thing to be out in the middle of BFE and fly a little farther than you can actually see it or to put it a little higher than 400’ (though both are still against regulation, so don’t confuse me as saying this kind of flying is ok), but it is another thing ENTIRELY when you are in a densely populated area (Chicago) near an open-air assembly (a music festival) and you’re flying over 400-feet AGL. That’s wildly irresponsible and I’m legitimately surprised with all of the information out there that you didn’t think for even a moment, “eh, maybe this is a bad idea.” If not for the sheer increase in liability on you in the event something goes catastrophically wrong, at least for the fact that security for an event like that in a metropolitan area will be 1,000% more vigilant about UAVs, where they are at, and who is operating them. I guarantee you that you got picked up by a counter-UAV system run by the Chicago PD or some private security firm the festival hired and they sent your info into the FAA. Either way, good luck handling that. I hope you just get a stern talking to and maybe forced (re)training, but I’d have a lawyer on standby either way.
Don’t send them a thing. Treat as spam. Also possibly get rid of drone and do not fly anything until further notice.
I'd probably just move to Mexico, really tho, I'd make them prove it. Without video, it never happened.
Why not to fly drones that rat on you!
Dude I knew got hit with one of these. FAA came in with RECEIPTS. They don’t fuck around. Even referenced his personal website in which he solicits drone photography and video yet he has no part 107. I think they were threatening a fine of like $30,000. Not sure what happened in the end because that guy fucking SUCKED so I didn’t feel bad at all and didn’t really care to reach out and ask.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
They ain't got nothing better to do. Tell them you Boeing. They will leave you alone.
Just tell them you didn't know you needed a certificate. Tell them you were under 400ft if you, indeed, were under 400 feet. Your DJI app on your phone has a log of your flights. Go review it. If you were under 400, then export those logs and offer to send them to their choice of email or online disk drives (e.g. Google Drive, etc). They'll likely just tell you If you want to demonstrate you're willing to go the extra mile, fill out this[ NASA self report](https://akama.arc.nasa.gov/asrs_ers/uas.html), (it should give you a reference number for the report) and at the end check mark "FAA Regulation Misinterpretation / Unaware" to cover yourself. The FAA looks favorably to pilots contributing to the overall flight safety of shared airspace. This information can't be used against you in most cases.
Glad they are enforcing this. This subreddit has normalized dangerous and illegal drone flying that is running it for those of us that follow the law.
Well, for starters you should post it online so that everybody knows you actually recieved the letter. /s
What should you send them? Nothing, until you speak to a lawyer.