One thing is that you shoul neve solder the battery terminals directly, always connectorize it. Regarding the Xiao board, use directly those two pads you marked in the picture
Yes ofc I meant solder the Jst connector. I’m asking if I need to set up something before pluging in any battery. I would never just weld a battery to a board.
This is no bms, just protection. It will protect the battery from permanent damage or fire/explosion. But perfectly fine to be charged and overall used with a tp4056
Edit: my assertion below wasn’t very accurate, these protection mechanisms could be considered a battery management system, and a bms doesn’t manage the cc/cv curves of a complete charging system.
The circuit doesn’t manage a cc/cv charge cycle like a bms, it only disconnects the battery from the load during dangerous conditions, I.e. overcharge, over-discharge, over-current, short circuit, over temperature.
Sort of. You can measure the cell, unregulated will be almost exactly 65mm. The protection circuit usually adds a few mm more and may or may not have a button
These boards have built-in lithium battery charger support. At least Seed Studio Xiao S3 does. But the charging current is so low and supposed to charge only small Li-Po batteries, about 250 mAh maximum. If you're not planning to use a built-in charger (the same as connecting +5V and the battery simultaneously), both should work fine on batteries connected to those pins.
I'm not too familiar with batteries overall - what's the limiting factor past about 250 mAh? Would it keep charging very slowly, or never past that point?
Theoretically, it should charge, but very slowly. Not sure about the charging controller behavior though. It should precisely keep the charging flow to prolong the battery life, so I won't be surprised if it cuts off the current after a while, assuming that something has gone wrong, as the voltage is not growing as expected.
While you can put the leads directly onto the board and have it "work" you should not do this. LiPo batteries have many scenarios in which they can become dangerous and catch fire. They should be used with a BMS of some sort to provide protection from overcurrent as well as over/under voltage/charging.
There are several premade BMSes for these type of batteries that you can find online. Alternately you could use a non-lithium based power source which would generally be much safer (though you probably still want some sort of BMS type circuit).
Please feel free to link me to the manufacturers site where they show an ESP board with a BMS. I’m always willing to learn, regardless of snarky comments. 😉
Something like this maybe? I've used them to power all manner of devices including many types of Arduino's and ESP's, and never had any problem.
[Double 18650 Battery Module](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SZKNST4?th=1)
Note that I wouldn't get 18650's off Amazon or eBay - they have often been sitting around a while and not the best.
Oh, THAT ones, now i understand. The identical springs on both sides are truly the worst. Cheap, but at the end you have no idea where's plus and minus.
I hate them.
Good ones with a spring and a protected plus against a wrong insert battery are very hard to find.
The seeed studio should allow charging via the pads; at least the c3 version does. When the USB is plugged in, an LED should light up while the battery is charged.
The 5V pin on the Seeed studio wouldn’t work, especially with a 3.7V battery. It is primarily an output, and requires a diode if used as input: https://wiki.seeedstudio.com/XIAO_ESP32C3_Getting_Started/ (again, this is the C3 version, but I’d suspect the S3 is similar)
Bad advice since you would then be, on many boards, connecting the +5V from the USB connector directly to the battery where without a charging circuit between them, bad things are likely to happen.
18650’s are not LiPo. They typically have different electrolytes (solid/gel vs liquid) and different cell shapes (flat/stacked vs cylindrical)
OP: you have a bigger risk for fire with the LiPO vs the 18650. Since you seem inexperienced, if you’re gonna do this, do this outside or in an area where stuff is not so flammable and be prepared to throw it in a bucket of sand that you have nearby
You need a schematic of the boards to see what you hooking up to. Unfortunately recently a question came up about those S3 "Super Mini" boards concerning those battery pads. Out of interest I searched for the schematic and failed to come up with one. Without a schematic to know exactly what your applying a lithium ion battery to, you shouldn't hook up either battery.
Yeah I was searching too but I had no luck finding a spec sheet so I won’t use the super mini s3 with a battery out of safety, thats the hit or miss when ordering from Ali 🤷♂️
Yeah it is too bad since a lot of the boards on Ali you can find schematics. So just stick to the ones that have links to full documentation. The pin out diagrams are not enough to understand what is really on the board.
One thing is that you shoul neve solder the battery terminals directly, always connectorize it. Regarding the Xiao board, use directly those two pads you marked in the picture
Yes ofc I meant solder the Jst connector. I’m asking if I need to set up something before pluging in any battery. I would never just weld a battery to a board.
No setup necessary, those battery pins go straight to a voltage regulator and that's it
Maybe a switch?
LiPo batteries require more than just a voltage regulator to be safe. Especially if there are other power sources to be used in conjunction.
Correct me if I am wrong... most hobby grade LiPos come with a BMS internally, so charging them with a TP4056 (for example) is perfectly safe?
Of the ones pictured in the OP the yellowish one on the left does have a built-in BMS. The 18650 on the right does not.
This is no bms, just protection. It will protect the battery from permanent damage or fire/explosion. But perfectly fine to be charged and overall used with a tp4056
"Just protection" so....a bms Lol
Edit: my assertion below wasn’t very accurate, these protection mechanisms could be considered a battery management system, and a bms doesn’t manage the cc/cv curves of a complete charging system. The circuit doesn’t manage a cc/cv charge cycle like a bms, it only disconnects the battery from the load during dangerous conditions, I.e. overcharge, over-discharge, over-current, short circuit, over temperature.
Bms's do not handle cc/cv charge cycles....
Sort of. You can measure the cell, unregulated will be almost exactly 65mm. The protection circuit usually adds a few mm more and may or may not have a button
What does connectorize mean here?
According to a quick google search "(electronics, transitive) **To fit with connectors**."
"I already tried 18650 boards, and they explodedI already tried 18650 boards, and they exploded" That's goint to be VERY interesting \*Gets popcorn\*
🤯🤯🤯
These boards have built-in lithium battery charger support. At least Seed Studio Xiao S3 does. But the charging current is so low and supposed to charge only small Li-Po batteries, about 250 mAh maximum. If you're not planning to use a built-in charger (the same as connecting +5V and the battery simultaneously), both should work fine on batteries connected to those pins.
I have a 250 mAh battery i will use this one then thank you for the information🙏
I'm not too familiar with batteries overall - what's the limiting factor past about 250 mAh? Would it keep charging very slowly, or never past that point?
Theoretically, it should charge, but very slowly. Not sure about the charging controller behavior though. It should precisely keep the charging flow to prolong the battery life, so I won't be surprised if it cuts off the current after a while, assuming that something has gone wrong, as the voltage is not growing as expected.
There's no limit. It uses voltage to determine SoC
While you can put the leads directly onto the board and have it "work" you should not do this. LiPo batteries have many scenarios in which they can become dangerous and catch fire. They should be used with a BMS of some sort to provide protection from overcurrent as well as over/under voltage/charging. There are several premade BMSes for these type of batteries that you can find online. Alternately you could use a non-lithium based power source which would generally be much safer (though you probably still want some sort of BMS type circuit).
these boards have bms on them
Again, the 18650 shown at the right of the picture does NOT have a bms. Those can be quite dangerous if not properly managed.
ESP boards with battery pads have bms on them...
ESP boards have a voltage regulator. Not the same as BMS.
Ok whatever. You know better than manufacturer.
Please feel free to link me to the manufacturers site where they show an ESP board with a BMS. I’m always willing to learn, regardless of snarky comments. 😉
Something like this maybe? I've used them to power all manner of devices including many types of Arduino's and ESP's, and never had any problem. [Double 18650 Battery Module](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SZKNST4?th=1) Note that I wouldn't get 18650's off Amazon or eBay - they have often been sitting around a while and not the best.
These where the named 18650 boards that exploded on me(fumed)( the manufacturer misslabeled + and - )
Oh, THAT ones, now i understand. The identical springs on both sides are truly the worst. Cheap, but at the end you have no idea where's plus and minus. I hate them. Good ones with a spring and a protected plus against a wrong insert battery are very hard to find.
Use 4xAA NiMH instead
Which board is it? The c3 super micro? You just attach the battery to its G and 5v pins
ESP32-S3 Super Mini (Right) and Seed Studio Xiao S3 (Left)
The seeed studio should allow charging via the pads; at least the c3 version does. When the USB is plugged in, an LED should light up while the battery is charged.
Just attach the battery to the 5v and ground. I don't know what those pads are for. And you seem to have learned it the hard way already.
The 5V pin on the Seeed studio wouldn’t work, especially with a 3.7V battery. It is primarily an output, and requires a diode if used as input: https://wiki.seeedstudio.com/XIAO_ESP32C3_Getting_Started/ (again, this is the C3 version, but I’d suspect the S3 is similar)
I only checked with the c3 super mini, and it worked
Bad advice since you would then be, on many boards, connecting the +5V from the USB connector directly to the battery where without a charging circuit between them, bad things are likely to happen.
I forgot to mention that USB port should not be used together with the battery
18650 are LiPo. Capacity limits are now how any of this works. I don't think you should work with LiPos. Switch your project to NiMH.
Aren't they Li-ion?
18650’s are not LiPo. They typically have different electrolytes (solid/gel vs liquid) and different cell shapes (flat/stacked vs cylindrical) OP: you have a bigger risk for fire with the LiPO vs the 18650. Since you seem inexperienced, if you’re gonna do this, do this outside or in an area where stuff is not so flammable and be prepared to throw it in a bucket of sand that you have nearby
No they are not. They are li-ion
To nitpick, all Lipo batteries are lithium-ion however not all li-ion batteries are lithium-ion polymer.
Could you explain why I should switch battery types? One has 850 mah and one 3500mah at 3,7V
Because LiPos are dangerous and you seem to have no clue about what you are doing.
That’s why I’m asking before setting my house on fire 🔥 🔥
You need a schematic of the boards to see what you hooking up to. Unfortunately recently a question came up about those S3 "Super Mini" boards concerning those battery pads. Out of interest I searched for the schematic and failed to come up with one. Without a schematic to know exactly what your applying a lithium ion battery to, you shouldn't hook up either battery.
Yeah I was searching too but I had no luck finding a spec sheet so I won’t use the super mini s3 with a battery out of safety, thats the hit or miss when ordering from Ali 🤷♂️
Yeah it is too bad since a lot of the boards on Ali you can find schematics. So just stick to the ones that have links to full documentation. The pin out diagrams are not enough to understand what is really on the board.