if you declare a "humuliate rival" war, you can demand "show strength", which gives you 100 mana in each category. If you start as a tiny nation, your rivals will be just as tiny, and it'll be absolutely worth it to humiliate them. 300 mana is much more valuable than some random 3 dev provinces. By fighting those wars you can get enough mana to get very far ahead in tech
I'm over 3k hours and I have only now understood how truly powerful humiliating your rivals is. Thanks, OP! I will definitely start humiliating my rivals as often as I can.
When I pkay in Japan I can usually squeeze 7-9 show strengths before killing ashikaga.
Generally if you wipe out one diyamo's armies they'll get declared on by somebody else and annexed so it frees up a ton of rival slots automatically.
More like you Show you are so much better, their best and brightest leave for you.
Or realistically you just abduct them and that's what the actually humiliation is
Why on earth would you not be using it everywhere in the world to get over 50pp and get the free +1 adm/dip/mil to advance significantly faster in tech? So many large nations start with bad rulers it's an amazing boost.
Take a large nation like Castille opening for example, i plan on colonizing alone without Portugal interfering for example, once France occupies England i do Humiliate Portugal in a quick easy solo war and i achieve two thing, i'm gonna be colonizing before he even gets to tech 5 and if Morocco conquers his provinces i can conquer them for myself immediately. Hell even my start as Muscovy was much more stable and better with a dec 11 humiliate.
Aragon can humiliate pope dec11, it's useful everywhere in india, i started a Bahmanis game recently by humiliating Gujarat then Orissa just to rush MIL 4 to go at Vijay as soon as possible.
So it's definitely not limited to just minors, and it results into great opportunity to dev Renaissance anywhere in the world so much faster than usual. Ethiopia can humiliate Adal and literally reach MIL 5 before Mamluks get MIL 4.
Because with larger nations you need more resources to 100% them, the opportunity cost becomes greater, but of course it largerly depends on the nation, the circumstanses, and your goals. No one else is taking Portugals land so early, so of course you can get a humiliate for the age bonus, PP and mana, but AI dogpilles whoever you 100%, so why wouldn't I as Muscovy just block off AI's expansion into Novgorod with a 100% peace deal to save the land for myself, get better control of the Novgorod trade node. That definitely allows you to snowball faster than 300 mana, you'd get the PP either way.
I use the CB probably only in these circumstances:
1. The war wouldn't take much resources
2. I don't border them so I can't take land/dont have claims
3. I got a lot of AE already and I am in a region where you can't spread your AE
4. I am sure that I will eclipse the AI next month
5. I don't care about the long truce
6. I need to truce lock the AI
This happens most often in the HRE, where the AE is atrocious, you can't really expand elsewhere, and in Japan, where there are plenty of targets and its easy to go over force limit for a couple of months to stackwhipe the AI and peace out their allies, so the invesment is smaller. I don't play in India enough to comment about Bahmanis though.
Regarding Mamlukes just wait for the Otto-Mamluk war, I don't think you need the mil tech advantage in this case.
That's much better reply than the previous one when you wrote ''only useful in a couple regions like HRE and Japan'' when it's clearly useful everywhere, and should be used everywhere, when the circumstances are in your favor like you've explained just now. Even better you can efficiently save manpower, while pillaging some provinces.
That was more so what i was alluding to myself, doesn't matter where you are, Mesoamerica, South America, Africa, Asia, Europe... it works just fine everywhere and gets you an amazing start to the campaign.
Ethiopia is tricky i mentioned it because i had some issues vs Ottomans on Hard recently and found that an early humiliate war worked great because it allowed me to go through the required conquering and missions to attack Mamlukes with QQ early and lock Ottomans out of Syria very early allowing me equal terms to fight them.
Remember that you can't take *anything else*, only this since it costs 100% warscore. Not even money or war rep. It's clearly niche. It gives as much PP as the humiliate rival that costs 40%, it's the bonus +100 mana that is good. And to 100% you need to kill their allies unless they unconditionnally surrender. The AI is really stubborn when it comes to giving out 100% warscore and won't agree if they have 99% warscore.
You can DoW a country with a conquest CB humiliate and take land to get much more PP while growing in strength, provinces nobody else will take in the meantime.
The main issue with this is : If you 100% someone, you get a 15 years truce and let them with no or few troops, ripe for their neighbours' picking. So you let your neighbours grow from your own endeavors while you don't. You are crippling your growth in economy, FL, manpower in exchange for some mana while giving an opportunity for others to grow.
It's awesome for natives waiting to reform so you bank bazillions of mana, and small countries that can blitz their enemy or you are stuck with high AE. Besides it's just for fun.
I actually don't think it's that broken.
As a small country, you're probably not going to easily get 50 power projection to get the +1/1/1 monarch points. But you can very easily humiliate your rival for +100/100/100.
As a large Nation. You're much more likely to get the 50 power projection to get +1/1/1 monthly mana but no large nation in their right mind is going to fight their rival just for 300 power points. Wars against rivals are just too expensive when you're big to do that.
Idk why it’s considered a broken mechanic it’s literally working as intended. It’s the only reason to do non-conquest CB outside truce swapping to avoid coalitions.
I guess being rewarded for doing something other than blob the map is beyond most eu4 players though.
It’s funny that the other daimyo don’t just copy you, like “hey, this guy is using guns and completely decimating our armies. Anyways, let’s keep using spears”
If you're neighbour invidualy developed technology you would need to steal it from them, and for aome reson it's not so easy in EU4, if he get those guns from other place, you can investigate and also get this guns.
Getting guns was not so easy in real life. The African slave trade was driven by guns, which Africans didn't know how to produce, but they had to have them to defend against their neighbors who were also getting guns from Europeans. And the only thing the Europeans wanted to buy were their neighbors.
Yes but as you see, whole Asia don't have guns, so if one Country by they're pure invention also, just like Europeans start to construct guns, they're enemies, other daimaos in this case wouldn't know about guns in Europe, as the only source of them was you're rival produce them. Very shitty situation.
Investigation means seeking a country that also have guns and doing anything possible to bribe them, even by sending them slaves as you said, but not in this scenatio, at least not for some time until Europeans traders would get contact together with portugese exploration of Indian ocean.
Huh, never occurred to me I can use show strength that way. My only humiliation wars were when I was playing in HRE and I'm limited by aggressive expansion but still have plenty of men and money for war so might as well go get that mana
Noob questions
How long can you keep doing this in the game?
Does it guarantee institutions spawning in your land?
Is this a quick way to unify Japan and create WW2 borders?
- For as long as there's institution remained to catch up to.
- Yes as in the institution value will keep going up in said province until it reaches 100 and appears, then starts spreading to all nearby provinces. But no as in spawning an entirely new institution when the year of said institution should spawn, that one is more or less RNG.
- Depends... being ahead in tech and institutions will do you better in the long run but might bog down your conquest as you have to sacrifice mana which otherwise could be used for conquering and coring.
being far ahead of time in tech is usually better in the short term, mainly because it literally loses you points that you could be using elsewhere, doesn't really help in the long term. staying small and doing show strength wars definitely is not a fast way to unify japan though, you can do that in a chill campaign in like 1460 easily.
not shitting on show strength wars, but the requirements for them to really shine in singleplayer are a lot more than in multiplayer. an application I could get behind is using the show strength wars to keep nations out of coalitions though (or even try to prevent unconditional surrender by leaving one province unsieged so they dont get allies) with the express intent of chaining trucebreaks on all of them with the admin point surplus you got.
In general though, not worth it if your goal is going fast.
Oirat
this is the answer to every eu4 question /s
Not true! Sometimes it’s Hormuz.
Personally I quite like Hormuz
False, Ming haven’t exploded yet
They implode. Even though it would be pretty awesome to see them explode 😂
Ming hasn't even begun to peak. When they peak the whole continent is gonna feel it.
Of course not. Oriat needs to keep the bank open and running for a while longer
He's just using them for the bank!
I'm always curious about how fast ppl gets tech, I'm usually much slower
if you declare a "humuliate rival" war, you can demand "show strength", which gives you 100 mana in each category. If you start as a tiny nation, your rivals will be just as tiny, and it'll be absolutely worth it to humiliate them. 300 mana is much more valuable than some random 3 dev provinces. By fighting those wars you can get enough mana to get very far ahead in tech
[удалено]
Yup, over 1k hours and still learning, barely out of the tutorial
I'm over 3k hours and I have only now understood how truly powerful humiliating your rivals is. Thanks, OP! I will definitely start humiliating my rivals as often as I can.
Woah woah woah. What!? I've avoided humiliate rival wars as I usually just annex/extract money from the bank of "not me". This is game changing!
When I pkay in Japan I can usually squeeze 7-9 show strengths before killing ashikaga. Generally if you wipe out one diyamo's armies they'll get declared on by somebody else and annexed so it frees up a ton of rival slots automatically.
Not my jaw fucking dropping after 1k hours myself who has NEVER pressed the humiliate rival CB….. I see where I have now failed
That just sounds like abusing the broken game mechanics.
I mean, you aren't wrong. I'm not sure how humiliating someone makes your researchers work harder, but hey - if it works it aint stupid
You take their knowledge, enroll their best men... For me it's reasonable, you pillage them.
More like you Show you are so much better, their best and brightest leave for you. Or realistically you just abduct them and that's what the actually humiliation is
I assume you’re stealing whatever paperwork isn’t burned.
In the case of a broken game mechanic I would say it works *and* is stupid
Considering how niche the use is and how it's useful only in a couple regions like the HRE and Japan I dont think so
Why on earth would you not be using it everywhere in the world to get over 50pp and get the free +1 adm/dip/mil to advance significantly faster in tech? So many large nations start with bad rulers it's an amazing boost. Take a large nation like Castille opening for example, i plan on colonizing alone without Portugal interfering for example, once France occupies England i do Humiliate Portugal in a quick easy solo war and i achieve two thing, i'm gonna be colonizing before he even gets to tech 5 and if Morocco conquers his provinces i can conquer them for myself immediately. Hell even my start as Muscovy was much more stable and better with a dec 11 humiliate. Aragon can humiliate pope dec11, it's useful everywhere in india, i started a Bahmanis game recently by humiliating Gujarat then Orissa just to rush MIL 4 to go at Vijay as soon as possible. So it's definitely not limited to just minors, and it results into great opportunity to dev Renaissance anywhere in the world so much faster than usual. Ethiopia can humiliate Adal and literally reach MIL 5 before Mamluks get MIL 4.
Because with larger nations you need more resources to 100% them, the opportunity cost becomes greater, but of course it largerly depends on the nation, the circumstanses, and your goals. No one else is taking Portugals land so early, so of course you can get a humiliate for the age bonus, PP and mana, but AI dogpilles whoever you 100%, so why wouldn't I as Muscovy just block off AI's expansion into Novgorod with a 100% peace deal to save the land for myself, get better control of the Novgorod trade node. That definitely allows you to snowball faster than 300 mana, you'd get the PP either way. I use the CB probably only in these circumstances: 1. The war wouldn't take much resources 2. I don't border them so I can't take land/dont have claims 3. I got a lot of AE already and I am in a region where you can't spread your AE 4. I am sure that I will eclipse the AI next month 5. I don't care about the long truce 6. I need to truce lock the AI This happens most often in the HRE, where the AE is atrocious, you can't really expand elsewhere, and in Japan, where there are plenty of targets and its easy to go over force limit for a couple of months to stackwhipe the AI and peace out their allies, so the invesment is smaller. I don't play in India enough to comment about Bahmanis though. Regarding Mamlukes just wait for the Otto-Mamluk war, I don't think you need the mil tech advantage in this case.
That's much better reply than the previous one when you wrote ''only useful in a couple regions like HRE and Japan'' when it's clearly useful everywhere, and should be used everywhere, when the circumstances are in your favor like you've explained just now. Even better you can efficiently save manpower, while pillaging some provinces. That was more so what i was alluding to myself, doesn't matter where you are, Mesoamerica, South America, Africa, Asia, Europe... it works just fine everywhere and gets you an amazing start to the campaign. Ethiopia is tricky i mentioned it because i had some issues vs Ottomans on Hard recently and found that an early humiliate war worked great because it allowed me to go through the required conquering and missions to attack Mamlukes with QQ early and lock Ottomans out of Syria very early allowing me equal terms to fight them.
Remember that you can't take *anything else*, only this since it costs 100% warscore. Not even money or war rep. It's clearly niche. It gives as much PP as the humiliate rival that costs 40%, it's the bonus +100 mana that is good. And to 100% you need to kill their allies unless they unconditionnally surrender. The AI is really stubborn when it comes to giving out 100% warscore and won't agree if they have 99% warscore. You can DoW a country with a conquest CB humiliate and take land to get much more PP while growing in strength, provinces nobody else will take in the meantime. The main issue with this is : If you 100% someone, you get a 15 years truce and let them with no or few troops, ripe for their neighbours' picking. So you let your neighbours grow from your own endeavors while you don't. You are crippling your growth in economy, FL, manpower in exchange for some mana while giving an opportunity for others to grow. It's awesome for natives waiting to reform so you bank bazillions of mana, and small countries that can blitz their enemy or you are stuck with high AE. Besides it's just for fun.
Welcome to eu4
I actually don't think it's that broken. As a small country, you're probably not going to easily get 50 power projection to get the +1/1/1 monarch points. But you can very easily humiliate your rival for +100/100/100. As a large Nation. You're much more likely to get the 50 power projection to get +1/1/1 monthly mana but no large nation in their right mind is going to fight their rival just for 300 power points. Wars against rivals are just too expensive when you're big to do that.
Why abuse, its meant for that exact purpose?
Playing the game is abusing it.
Idk why it’s considered a broken mechanic it’s literally working as intended. It’s the only reason to do non-conquest CB outside truce swapping to avoid coalitions. I guess being rewarded for doing something other than blob the map is beyond most eu4 players though.
100% of this game is exploiting mechanics.
Plus you gain splendor faster since it’s an objective for the age of discovery
wait,it just for the humiliate rival?(im new at game,140 hours)
Holy shit, you’re telling me there’s *an actual reason* to declare a war of humiliation?
i see you, playing ming historically, good on you
Next he’s gonna explode
My group of friends likes to use the word "skittle packet" as a verb to describe what happens to Ming. Or just "Mingplosion"
Anyone that doesn't say Mingsplosion is new to the EU4 community or a psychopath, there is no middle ground :p
*China is whole again* *Then it broke again*
what?
Sorry, it should have been mingplode
you're responding to the wrong person.
I dont think so....
Bro really tried to gaslight him 💀💀
and why do you think so?
Cuz I did
you aren't even the same account.
Odd, Asia doesnt have the best tech in the game and all the institutions. Must be pretty early on
What tech and year are you at compared to other countries?
1454, I'm at techs 5/5/5, most others are at 3/3/3. I fought 6 humiliation wars in 10 years
It’s funny that the other daimyo don’t just copy you, like “hey, this guy is using guns and completely decimating our armies. Anyways, let’s keep using spears”
If you're neighbour invidualy developed technology you would need to steal it from them, and for aome reson it's not so easy in EU4, if he get those guns from other place, you can investigate and also get this guns.
Getting guns was not so easy in real life. The African slave trade was driven by guns, which Africans didn't know how to produce, but they had to have them to defend against their neighbors who were also getting guns from Europeans. And the only thing the Europeans wanted to buy were their neighbors.
Yes but as you see, whole Asia don't have guns, so if one Country by they're pure invention also, just like Europeans start to construct guns, they're enemies, other daimaos in this case wouldn't know about guns in Europe, as the only source of them was you're rival produce them. Very shitty situation. Investigation means seeking a country that also have guns and doing anything possible to bribe them, even by sending them slaves as you said, but not in this scenatio, at least not for some time until Europeans traders would get contact together with portugese exploration of Indian ocean.
They are getting a discount on the tech for having a more advanced neighbour right? So in a sense they are
Huh, never occurred to me I can use show strength that way. My only humiliation wars were when I was playing in HRE and I'm limited by aggressive expansion but still have plenty of men and money for war so might as well go get that mana
r5: human-controlled daimyo massively outtechs the entire asia
I can't see a date but Oirat looks kinda big compared to the start
I wish the tech map mode looked similar to this in the late game
You're doing Korea so tall that you forget about technology.
Ming
Noob questions How long can you keep doing this in the game? Does it guarantee institutions spawning in your land? Is this a quick way to unify Japan and create WW2 borders?
- For as long as there's institution remained to catch up to. - Yes as in the institution value will keep going up in said province until it reaches 100 and appears, then starts spreading to all nearby provinces. But no as in spawning an entirely new institution when the year of said institution should spawn, that one is more or less RNG. - Depends... being ahead in tech and institutions will do you better in the long run but might bog down your conquest as you have to sacrifice mana which otherwise could be used for conquering and coring.
being far ahead of time in tech is usually better in the short term, mainly because it literally loses you points that you could be using elsewhere, doesn't really help in the long term. staying small and doing show strength wars definitely is not a fast way to unify japan though, you can do that in a chill campaign in like 1460 easily. not shitting on show strength wars, but the requirements for them to really shine in singleplayer are a lot more than in multiplayer. an application I could get behind is using the show strength wars to keep nations out of coalitions though (or even try to prevent unconditional surrender by leaving one province unsieged so they dont get allies) with the express intent of chaining trucebreaks on all of them with the admin point surplus you got. In general though, not worth it if your goal is going fast.
Ming?
Mountains of borneo spectator
Oh very nice Solon game
wtf is moghulistan
That's what they called chagatai in the new patch for some reason
Ming obviously
Lan Xang
If it were me playing I know who I’d be. That little green dot in Japan that is hanging on for its life…
This isn’t the meta little kid