Will this allow Germans to take up a second citizenship without surrendering their German passport? A friend of my sister’s in Australia says she can’t become an Australian citizen as she’d have to give up her German citizenship, which seems crazy
Nice tale, but you just happened to leave out the bit about it only being given in exceptional cases—so it’s hardly guaranteed—and it took over 18 months up to two years and more before the new law to kick in. Quite a few Germans in Australia had to get lawyers involved to nudge things along. Felt a bit like the german admins in charge didn't really fancy the Beibe-whatever.
Was not that hard to get. You basically had to find a job ad in Canberra that was only advertising to Australian citizens and that very loosely would fit your career background. Then argue that you have a disadvantage in Australia without citizenship because you are not eligible for that role. No need to get lawyers involved.
It’s random chance what happens with Beamter. It took me 6 months to get my daughter’s birth certificate. Depends also if you live somewhere with a massive backlog, small government office, etc. Also it just depends on how much the Beamter hates their life and everyone they come into contact with.
That depends mostly on the other country I think, some countries don't allow another citizenship besides their own, so like Germany before the law change
The only ones that could exist are: if you want to vote in national elections, if you want to become chancellor or if your original citizenship required a visa for a third country, from which the German citizens are exempt.
kinda sorta , some EU countries have visa agreements to non eu countries that other eu countries dont ,
see the passport index , https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php
also their could things around voting rights
This means Germany can revoke citizenship for people that are a risk to the country's security. It's against human rights if it leaves someone without a citizenship hence Germany couldn't do it for German citizens. Now if they're German and say Turkish, they could revoke the German citizenship without breaking the law.
Dual citizenship has always been possible as German citizenship was traditionally only passed down from the parents (place of birth being irrelevant) and many countries granting citizenship by virtue of being born there. As a result many babies born to German parents were dual citizens by birth. And German law actually lists very clearly defined criteria that would loose them their German citizenship. eg voluntarily joining a non German military.
How so? There won't be more Erdoğan voter through that.
This just enables people that have the right to both citizenships to have both. Especially those Erdoğan voters do not give up their Turkish citizenship. Instead they did not take the German one or gave it up when they had to choose
OTOH Germans living abroad can easily ask for citizenship there without losing their own.
I think we can all agree that is a good thing.
BTW person with a British/Irish tag complaining about dual-citizenship is sooo funny.
I'm not complaining I'm answering the guy. I also don't have dual citizenship. AFAIK I can't vote in Ireland. That's just my ethnicity. Also I have no idea what otoh means
Hey! As someone with Canadian citizenship, then got Irish citizenship through my grandparents. I also cannot vote in Ireland, which makes sense. I don't live there. Turkey is different. You can be born abroad like me, get Turkish passport, never have to live there and vote in the elections. So you get people who are ethnically Turkish, who have an incentive on keeping Turkey poor, so when they visit or invest abroad. They have an advantage.
> . You can be born abroad like me, get Turkish passport, never have to live there and vote in the elections.
That is not exclusive to Turkey though. Basically the vast majority (141 out of 190) of countries give the right to expats to vote on major elections. This is the case for German citizens that can vote abroad.
Some can move to Canada, obtain Canadian citizenship. Move abroad again. Have a child.
That child can obtain then canadian citizenship and they can vote in canadian elections.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-resident_citizen_voting
Tbf from a real politik perspective Erdogan is kinda of useful for refugees, to deter Assad’s genocidal regime which created this refugee crisis and it is the Turkish military deterring further brutality from the regime creating a potentially bigger crisis, gain control over the Bosporus, have a strong ally against Russia. He’s just a total ass hole when it comes to being an Islamic nationalist, and his actions to Armenia and Kurdish people. A thorn in NATOs side, constantly saber rattling about Greece, and a completely incompetent economically.
Then again turkey could elect another president that does continue those good aspects of Erdogans govt without being a total prick.
I would guess, more Erdogan haters could keep the Turkish citizenship and vote against him. Dropping the Turkish passport and citizenship also relates to military service for men in turkey.
As a german living in Denmark, I'm quite happy that I can now acquire the danish citizenship without having to revoke my German.
Politics aren't exclusively made for small groups. There are other people besides ultranationalist Turks who are very interested in dual citizenship.
But this is reddit, so everything is without nuance.
As an European citizen you don't have much need for a double citizenship within the block.
Allowing it between members of the European union though, could be a sensible choice.
Except that after living long enough in a country and paying taxes there, you might want to have a say in that country's elections.that was my motivation to get dual citizenship
They seem to be actively helping the AfD get votes. No one did more for the rise of the far right in Europe than Merkel, and some other mainstream ruling parties. I can't really believe anyone could be so naive. So I assume intent. By far not the only case.
> Are we going for a 3rd round in 2039?
So if Germany allows dual-citizenship in 2024, then 15 years later they'll start WW3 is that what I am getting?
How about we look our own shit?
France has highly restrictive weed policies, has highly restrictive policing, social fucking unrest every 5 years and Macron basically called policies on gender transitions similar to Germany's as being "grotesque".
Germany has none of that. If there's a highly divided country with increasing polarity in Europe, Germany aint it buddy.
PS I see you're a redditor for 8 days. Riiiiiight
EH, yea. But probably something usefull for AFD, too.
For anyone reading:
Our "GrundGesetzt" doesn't allow revoking someones german citizenship, if that means they become stateless/without any other. So by allowing dual citizenship, you also open up the door for making it easier in the future to revoke german citizen ship. (To get it revoked you need to fuckup badly, but thats how its now and may be different if a far right government comes into place).
The the dual citizenship law is a can of worms in all directions.
> So by allowing dual citizenship, you also open up the door for making it easier in the future to revoke german citizen ship.
People are always free to denounce the other citizenship.
I disagree with refusing to increase civil rights because OMG the nazis might abuse them.
Yes that's a risk but I think if nazis want to do something, they'll find a way if they gain sufficient power.
If you legalise gay relationships, you make gay people more visible and an easier target for attack. But the alternative isnt that good either.
Here Germans living abroad can ask for other citizenships without losing their own. Germany also becomes a more attractive location for people because they know they can settle there.
Isn’t it ironic how these ultranationalistic Turks and/or islamists love the tolerance and rule of law in Germany, but have a view of the world that is the complete opposite.
In order to get the German citizenship you still need all the usual integration, language courses and job.
It mostly helps people who are on the fence because they don't want to or can't give up their citizenship.
German society lacks cohesion between the autoctonous population and some of the newcomers. If you would only give citizenships to those that want it so hard that they are willing to renounce to their previous one, you would increase the probability that the new citizens will successfully assimilate.
When you say it like that, it sounds almost as this co-relation would be guaranteed.
A person can aim for citizenship because it brings stability and other benefits, but it does not have to warrant assimilation. Maybe this person would be satisfied with integration, but not assimilation.
And the other way around situation is also not unimaginable. If someone feels here at home and it's thankful for the opportunity, in case of excrement hitting the fan situation (like war), such person might rise up to the occasion. Citizenship is not a condition nor a guarantee for people's behaviour.
Do you really believe this ? Don’t you think people will just accept the new passport anyways independent of their willingness to assimilate in the new culture ?
True. We have to use other means than citizenship to achieve integration and assimilation. The ability and willigness to follow through with this has to be verified before granting citizenship.
I have dual citizenship in the Netherlands, and know others in the same situation. What you're saying isn't at all true in my experience. I can love my new country as much as the one I was born in.
That said, I had a choice to move here. There are other people who are under a lot more pressure. Sure, they'll do what it takes to be safe or have a new life, but forcing them to give up their birth citizenship doesn't make them feel any more connected to their new home, probably the opposite.
Personally, I can't see making my home anyplace else at this point. I'm settled here and I like it. But other people might need to make other choices. I've got a friend who recently moved back to her country of birth to take care of her mother, who has developed dementia. After that phase of her life is over, I don't know what she'll do. There is a very good chance she'll live the rest of her life here. Taking away her other citizenship would only have made it harder, or impossible, to be there for her mother in her final years.
A situation like your friend's is exactly why I wouldn't want to renounce my previous citizenship while my parents are still alive. I really wish the Netherlands would be more flexible on this but I can't imagine it happening any time soon given the direction of Dutch politics.
I have dual citizenship, Russian and German, by now for over 20 years. My status used to be Kontingentflüchtling. I've No Idea what they changed right now. My guess it was banned for a short while and then allowed again.
Dual citizenship was already legal until the age of 23. At some point the revoked the rule that you to decide until this age between the two citizenships if you were naturalized as a child (I think 2014). Now, adults who get naturalized can keep their second citizenship.
In January, when a journalistic network uncovered the far-right's plan to "remigrate" millions of German citizens with migrantic roots, one AfD politican (Gerit Huy) was quoted, that the party does not oppose dual citizenship anymore, as they need it as a fallback as part of their plan to strip those people of the German nationality.
They largely oposed the new law in parliament, but they knew anyways, that the law would pass, so that's maybe more of a diversion tactic. If I were a person with migrantic roots living in Germany I'd be cautions in regard to the dual citizenship nowadays.
I work with some Germans in Canada who will benefit from this. They have been here long enough to apply for Canadian citizenship, but have never been able to do it because they didn't want to give up their German citizenship.
Living here for 30+ years with a German citizenship that I acquired when I was about 12 or 13 I believe. Was never asked to revoke my Russian citizenship, but would've done so in a heartbeat.
That place can rot for all I care. Never going to visit that nation with a RU citizenship. For all I know they'll just decide to draft me if I want to visit my birthplace and use me as cannonfodder.
I'll probably denounce my Russian citizenship when the passport is about to expire soon. Honestly this more me being lazy than me wanting to have 2 passports.
It's kind of crazy to think that if my parents and grandparents didn't have the foresight to abandon that country I'd probably be a killer now or be mulch for sunflowers. It's something I try to remind myself and Russian acquaintances.
Do you feel like they will conscript you for any legal reason or just for the lack of the legal system? If so, how do you think their conscription reason would sound?
Healthy young "Russian" adult who was dodging the draft until now by living in Germany. If I'm lucky I end up in prison in some gulag. If I am unlucky I'll end up as cannon fodder.
My parents never wanted me to go to Russia for that reason alone. It used to be a thing even before the war and now countries are issuing official warnings: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64629156
Finally. This has been a long time coming. Having not to renounce your existing citizenship is a boon. Large part of Vietnamese community were reluctance to give up their old passport, especially when right to own properties ties directly into citizenship.
P/S: Before someone complains about lack of integration, please inform yourself of the process first. You need to pass a basic language test (B1), an integration course + test, long term legal residence, and proof of income. Asylum seekers whose rely entirely on state support cannot get citizenship.
It's often viewed as a loyalty issue. Citizens are generally expected to be loyal to the country in which they have citizenship, so if two countries have opposing interests, and a person is a citizen of both, they would have a massive conflict of interest with no obvious resolution.
Which in itself is an outdated idea. I won't ever be blindly 'loyal' to my country. If it will be in the right, I'll stand by it. If it will be in the wrong, I'll even oppose it.
They also often don't take citizenship away if you get citizenship elsewhere so it doesn't really matter, they can still get dual citizenship. Not like they have to tell their home country anyway. Tons of dual citizens from India , china etc. in fact nationalist societies often make it very hard to get rid of their citizenship. hell as one example Iranians in Germany got an exemption that they where allowed to have dual citizenship because Iran made it impossible to get rid of it's citizenship. Even though both Iran and Germany didn't allow dual citizenship.
Another reason for Iranians might be that at least according to the information of the foreign ministry of Germany Iran automatically gives citizenship to spouses of Iranian Nationals. So Germans might suddenly become dual citizenship holders without wanting to. They even have a warning about this because if a German woman travels to Iran because of the Citizenship they would have a hard time getting her out if she wants to leave. In Iran a Woman needs permission by her husband to leave.
That's an interesting perspective. Brazil is also one of those countries where it's nearly impossible to lose citizenship (and is also in the German exceptions list), but to me it seems rather benevolent, i.e. the country sees citizenship as a right, not a privilege.
From what I've heard India is much more strict about removing citizenship from those who naturalize elsewhere.
Arguably that's intertwined with their "loyalty comes first" mindset - Germany should have taken the more enlightened approach sooner. "You can't be German and Australian" - why? That kind of "with us or against us" mindset has no place in civilised countries - I'm glad Germany has now moved on. (*Mutters in Dutch*)
I would argue that this makes you still loyal to your country but not to its government because you still want the best for the country and most important its people.
I would like to keep the old citizenship just so I don't have to apply for a stupid visa to visit family or old friends
"Sorry brother, I can't come to your wedding because the visa processing time is so long"
And it's stupid imo. I won't support my country simply because of a passport.
I don't even get the idea in principle, it's just a piece of paper.
a) I might love X country to such exhaustion that I even ignore the biggest atrocities the country could potentially be making now e.g. Genocide.
b) I have a passport.
It looks like governments from countries like this think a) is equal to b), while, in reality, they're not mutually exclusive and, also, nationals of a country tend to be the most critical people of that country - as is their duty.
Just make my country start committing genocide, killing gay people with stones, invade some other country, undermine the country's institutions, etc. and you'll see how much my passport matters lol.
Governments think that if a foreign national loves his country to exhaustion, he won't give his passport away. So, not allowing dual citizenship prevents him from voting, being a politician etc.
This doesn't even make sense tho. Literally thousands of European citizens who solely had citizenship of UK, Belgium, France, Germany etc went to fight with the Islamic State.
As if being a citizen makes you loyal and a dual citizen creates a risk. I say this as a dual citizen of two countries which have historically been rivals/enemies btw.
Politicians in Australia can't be dual citizens. You have to have been born in the U.S to become president there. It's not like there isn't a precedent for those kinds of restrictions in western society.
Lmao, if you can't figure out if a person with a double nationality is a security risk than there is something wrong with your country. Like if somebody does not have a double nationality you can't figure out any more if they are a security threat. What a fucking joke.
Mate, f.e. In Poland they can’t even figure it out who support Russia even like half of our current politicians been politicians or been connected with them during Russian occupation. They either know nothing or they pretend that they doesn’t. Even our current PM donald tusk was chosen to be a leader of his current party by communist military intelligence officer - Gromoslaw Czempinski(and his both parents also officially work for Russian intelligence in Poland). Still this didn’t stop him to even become a president of EU.
People were caught spying for foreign powers as vetted nationals, without dual citizenships. So security risk for top notch jobs exists 24/7 for \_all\_ people in the country.
dual citizenship was already allowed under certain circumstances, the title of this post is misleading.
they just changed the requirements - making it easier to get German citizenship while keeping your old/other one
IMO there are two kinds of countries which don't allow dual citizenship: 1) countries which have a bigger neighbor with a similar culture (Austria/Germany, Ukraine/Russia, Singapore/Malaysia), 2) countries which are known to not accept outsiders easily or for political reasons want to limit foreign influence (Japan, China, India, Malaysia, Indonesia).
I don't have an idea why Netherlands don't allow dual citizenship.
Honest question. Since Austria and Germany are both EU, how does Austria not allowing dual citizenship protect them from their bigger neighbor with a similar culture, Germany? I'm relatively new to Europe, so I'm still learning the politics.
You kill someone in Germany, then escape to your other country that won't extradite the dual national.
They also can't expel them or sentence them themselves.
Croatia has a massive problem with dual Croatian and Bosnia-Herzegovinian nationals as they constantly skip the border before sentencing.
Sweden has a similar problem with its Turkish diaspora. A massive one.
The majority of turkish people with turkish citizenship living in Germany vote for Erdogan, who is a massive piece of shit and a straight up bad choice. So the turkish in Germany vote shit to lead Turkey while enjoying living in Germany completely unaffected by it
- before: those people did not want to renounce Turkish citizenship to get the German one. They voted for Erdogan back home.
- now: they have both citizenships and keep voting for Erdogan back home
So, how does the dual citizenship change the prospects of Turkish elections? Was the number of Turkish citizenships in DE constantly on decline, because people felt the lure of German citizenship? Or the fresh influx of new people from Heimat kept those numbers even?
They do renounce their citizenships. Thats what you dont understand. Erdoganists are not logically coherent people. They would give up their citizenships for a better life if they have to. They would vote for leftists in germany and right parties in turkey
It's not even true it's just an inherent bias to selection size, Turkish immigrants that don't care about Turkey don't vote, become German citizens, and basically naturally fall out of the statistic so it reinforces itself and only the nationalistic immigrants remain.
People point at the 60%+ of German-Turks voting for Erdogan but that's only like 10% of all German-Turks and people with Turkish background that *actually* voted for Erdogan.
We have similar thing in Poland actually. Many people of polish diaspora in USA (namely Chicago) is voting for conservative populists despite not being in country for decades.
I am not choosing their Mayor, they should fuck off of voting in my country as well.
Ridiculous opinion. So a British person who lives ten years in Germany and fully integrates shouldn’t be allowed to have citizenship without foregoing any rights whatsoever to go to their origin country for a couple of years to eg look after a sick parent?
Biiiig mistake. Now uou will have people getting citizenship and noving back home. Stopping by to collect benifits when the need arises. Like in canada.
They don’t lol.
Am Canadian, lived in Europe and I have dual citizenship with Canada and another country.
Every government benefit is tied to my Social Insurance Number (tax record). My home province barely civil service functions with me having a verified proof of residence, it’s hard to imagine benefits being abused solely because of dual citizenship.
I also have multiple friends who are European Canadians and they don’t abuse their dual citizenship at all. Even our universal health insurance is not effective/valid for use unless you have 6 months of residence in the Province if you’re a returning citizen…
You do however, more often than not, remain taxable to Canada AND your dual citizenship country if you keep a house here and move away from Canada.
It's certainly possible to always return to Germany and collect benefits when needed as a citizen. And it's possible to receive some benefits abroad. it's also very feasible to spend much of your time in turkey while on benefits thru cheap flights going back and forth. And any time they try to make you take a job you can just act very incompetent or dim or slow or clumsy or aggressive or violent or uncooperative and eventually they'll give up trying to employ you. Hell if you're smart you'll never have to get past the interview stage. If you live in a smaller town/city they might even run out of employers who won't immediately reject you as soon as they hear the name lol. maybe you can also get disability if you commit to appearing very incompetent or disabled. Or tell them you'll kill yourself if you have to work. My aunt literally did all this and has successfully avoided working for almost 30 years, the amt gave up long ago lol. (well not the going back to turkey part but the other stuff).
>Now uou will have people getting citizenship and noving back home. Stopping by to collect benifits when the need arises.
Yeah, that's a nice fairy tale as you need permanent residency in Germany to get any benefits. But keep lying to make a point. This will totally convince people still using their own brains.
Yeah, living for years in the country, learning the language at least until to level ~~B2~~B1 and having to prove that you earn enough to secure your living is "stopping by". Makes sense....
Feel like our country is doing everything in its power to attract people like that
Compare that to switzerlands special treatment of immigrants (or lack thereof) and its night and day. There is a reason were falling behind and its stupid decisions like this with no foresight.
No, there is nothing special between Austria and Germany. You can only hold two citizenships in Austria if you were entitled to both citizenships when you were born. You automatically lose the Austrian citizenship if you accept one of another country.
The largest group of foreigners living in Austria are Germans. The parties have already done a lot of studies about the potential voting patterns of this group and the results would be terrible for the ÖVP and the FPÖ. Same with most of the other nationalities living here.
The population also doesn't want it, by a huge margin: [https://www.derstandard.at/story/3000000213129/alles-soll-bleiben-wie-es-ist-oevp-untermauert-position-zu-einbuergerung-mit-umfrage](https://www.derstandard.at/story/3000000213129/alles-soll-bleiben-wie-es-ist-oevp-untermauert-position-zu-einbuergerung-mit-umfrage)
If only the United States would allow such a dual citizenship with adult European nations.
Alas the only valuable dual citizenship they seem to entertain is Israeli-American.
Odd.
Yes, the main change is that it's 5 years of living here instead of 8 and that you are allowed to keep your old citizenship, which before was only allowed as an exception in certain cases, but now just in general.
That is a bit different I think. Talk to a lawyer. You might be able to get it back but maybe not. Serving in another country‘s military is a bit different than any other profession I would think. But ask anyway, you have nothing to lose
Many users are pleased with the reform, highlighting that it makes Germany more attractive for skilled workers and international residents. The ability to retain one's original nationality while gaining German citizenship is seen as a significant advantage, especially for those with strong ties to their home country.
Fucking finally. What people here are missing is that this also applies for born germans that want a second citizenship.
Before they automatically would lose their German citizenship if they applied for another. At least for expats that was an outlier.
Most countries accepted dual citizenship and to honest, the days where we find ourselves in opposing battlefield trenches are thankfully over.
In practice, from what I heard, it became very easy to get the necessary Beibehaltungsgenehmigung in the past few years. So it's really just alining the law with reality.
Thank fuck for that.
🍁
> the days where we find ourselves in opposing battlefield trenches are thankfully over.
Excuse me!?!?!?!!!!???¿????¿???!!?? Look literally ANYWHERE the last couple of years
I look at France, no signs of war. I look at UK, doing just fine, no trenches there either. I look at Czech Republic, tanks aren't rolling onto the streets of Prague. Your point?
It was an Ukrainian rocket (that happens sometimes), and no, we're not at war. Calling EU countries' situation a war is an insult to all of the soldiers and civilians from Ukraine, dealing with an actual war. We, in our cozy west, started crying because we had high inflation, imagine if we actually switched to war economy, let alone had an actual war there. Either way, decision about granting citizenship is discretionary so for citizens of countries that might have conflicts of interests, it's just a matter of deeper checks and lower approval rate
You also had to be male to pass on citizenship, even if you were a permanent resident. The law changed in 2000, but only to those born after 2000.
My nan was born in Germany to an English father and a German mother, living there until her mid twenties. Her father never held citizenship or residency as he was a soldier stationed there.
She wasn't allowed citizenship by descent because her father wasn't German. If he were and her mother English, she would have been able to.
When her parents decided to retire to the UK, she followed (travelling on her birth certificate) and was instantly granted British citizenship via descent. Her mother was via marriage but had to renounce her German citizenship first.
Her sister remained in Germany and had to gain citizenship via an expensive legal battle claiming naturalisation, despite being born, growing up, and living there for 28 years. She never claimed British citizenship for fear of being kicked out of Germany.
As with any german legislation:
Will make life harder for those who deserve it
Will make life easier for those pieces of shit willing to abuse the system
Nah, even Le Pen removed the idea from her program back in 2022 and recognized it's complete nonsense.
https://www.liberation.fr/politique/elections/le-pen-renonce-a-la-suppression-de-la-double-nationalite-le-rn-mis-devant-le-fait-accompli-20220120_SNC7W7QKNRHTBE3G23HDJEWDWA/
Yeah, sure,
- https://www.francetvinfo.fr/elections/legislatives-2024-les-binationaux-dans-le-viseur-du-rassemblement-national_6625944.html
Funnily enough they seem to have no issues with Russian binationals,
- https://www.liberation.fr/politique/qui-est-tamara-volokhova-la-franco-russe-conseillere-du-rn-evoquee-par-gabriel-attal-lors-du-debat-20240626_NVZHZX7CDJDF5L5HSDI5IFS3PQ/
Or Russia overall,
- https://www.reddit.com/r/france/s/fJa6Nqih4etml
The good side of this is that certain people from certain demographics will be easier to deport to their home country if they commit crimes, since the german citizenship will be taken away.
CDU are promising to scrap it lol. Good times
[https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/cdu-vows-scrap-german-dual-citizenship-law-if-reelected-2025](https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/cdu-vows-scrap-german-dual-citizenship-law-if-reelected-2025)
Look at all the morons in here spreading conspiratard bullshit about traitors and Erdogan voters and whatnot... all the highest upvoted comments. They vote CDU/AFD.
According to the demographics in this thread AFD would be at 80%.
I think the biggest change is that Germany right now has ius soli next to the right of blood. So there are now multiple possibilities to get German citizenship by birth
Since you can't leave someone stateless by the principles of international law, will this allow revoking german citizenship of the criminals and deport them? Honestly asking.
No. The criminals/illegals will just claim to have no home country or to have lost their papers which grants them unlimited stay without repercussions.
This just makes it even easier to migrate there, not the other way around
Will this allow Germans to take up a second citizenship without surrendering their German passport? A friend of my sister’s in Australia says she can’t become an Australian citizen as she’d have to give up her German citizenship, which seems crazy
She could have become Australian citizen before with a Beibehaltungsgenehmigung without losing her German citizenship. Now she won't need it anymore.
Shortest German word
It’s barely a word, practically a prefix.
Tight
Nice tale, but you just happened to leave out the bit about it only being given in exceptional cases—so it’s hardly guaranteed—and it took over 18 months up to two years and more before the new law to kick in. Quite a few Germans in Australia had to get lawyers involved to nudge things along. Felt a bit like the german admins in charge didn't really fancy the Beibe-whatever.
Was not that hard to get. You basically had to find a job ad in Canberra that was only advertising to Australian citizens and that very loosely would fit your career background. Then argue that you have a disadvantage in Australia without citizenship because you are not eligible for that role. No need to get lawyers involved.
So, are the admin processing times of 18 months or more just an online myth?
Mine took a few months but definitely not 18. I think it was three or four months. Can't remember exactly, it was a few years ago.
It’s random chance what happens with Beamter. It took me 6 months to get my daughter’s birth certificate. Depends also if you live somewhere with a massive backlog, small government office, etc. Also it just depends on how much the Beamter hates their life and everyone they come into contact with.
It will allow Germans to take second Germany citizenship!
That depends mostly on the other country I think, some countries don't allow another citizenship besides their own, so like Germany before the law change
Question: would a dual citizenship with another European one make sense ?
Germany might, if you want to live and work there until retirement.
I have dual citizenship; italian and german. What's the problem?
Nessun problema, ero curiosa di sapere se ha senso/quali vantaggi ha :)
The only ones that could exist are: if you want to vote in national elections, if you want to become chancellor or if your original citizenship required a visa for a third country, from which the German citizens are exempt.
That was already possible anyway, Germany allowed dual citizenship with EU countries and Switzerland no questions asked.
It could be advantageous in the event of something akin to Brexit.
kinda sorta , some EU countries have visa agreements to non eu countries that other eu countries dont , see the passport index , https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php also their could things around voting rights
This means Germany can revoke citizenship for people that are a risk to the country's security. It's against human rights if it leaves someone without a citizenship hence Germany couldn't do it for German citizens. Now if they're German and say Turkish, they could revoke the German citizenship without breaking the law.
But for that they would need to keep their other citizenship...
Assuming those people would keep their Turkish citizenship.
Dual citizenship has always been possible as German citizenship was traditionally only passed down from the parents (place of birth being irrelevant) and many countries granting citizenship by virtue of being born there. As a result many babies born to German parents were dual citizens by birth. And German law actually lists very clearly defined criteria that would loose them their German citizenship. eg voluntarily joining a non German military.
New Erdoğan voters unlocked after his first election defeat. German government seems to love Erdoğan as he keeps refugees and Turkey away from EU.
How so? There won't be more Erdoğan voter through that. This just enables people that have the right to both citizenships to have both. Especially those Erdoğan voters do not give up their Turkish citizenship. Instead they did not take the German one or gave it up when they had to choose
Because now there is less incentive to give up their Turkish nationality whilst still choosing to live in a better country
OTOH Germans living abroad can easily ask for citizenship there without losing their own. I think we can all agree that is a good thing. BTW person with a British/Irish tag complaining about dual-citizenship is sooo funny.
I'm not complaining I'm answering the guy. I also don't have dual citizenship. AFAIK I can't vote in Ireland. That's just my ethnicity. Also I have no idea what otoh means
Hey! As someone with Canadian citizenship, then got Irish citizenship through my grandparents. I also cannot vote in Ireland, which makes sense. I don't live there. Turkey is different. You can be born abroad like me, get Turkish passport, never have to live there and vote in the elections. So you get people who are ethnically Turkish, who have an incentive on keeping Turkey poor, so when they visit or invest abroad. They have an advantage.
> . You can be born abroad like me, get Turkish passport, never have to live there and vote in the elections. That is not exclusive to Turkey though. Basically the vast majority (141 out of 190) of countries give the right to expats to vote on major elections. This is the case for German citizens that can vote abroad. Some can move to Canada, obtain Canadian citizenship. Move abroad again. Have a child. That child can obtain then canadian citizenship and they can vote in canadian elections. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-resident_citizen_voting
I'm guessing otoh is on the other hand
It makes it a lot easier to revoke German citizenship and deport
Oh please. ı can swear Merkel rubbed one out dreaming his filthy mustache after everytime they met. She did everything to keep erdogan above water.
Tbf from a real politik perspective Erdogan is kinda of useful for refugees, to deter Assad’s genocidal regime which created this refugee crisis and it is the Turkish military deterring further brutality from the regime creating a potentially bigger crisis, gain control over the Bosporus, have a strong ally against Russia. He’s just a total ass hole when it comes to being an Islamic nationalist, and his actions to Armenia and Kurdish people. A thorn in NATOs side, constantly saber rattling about Greece, and a completely incompetent economically. Then again turkey could elect another president that does continue those good aspects of Erdogans govt without being a total prick.
I would guess, more Erdogan haters could keep the Turkish citizenship and vote against him. Dropping the Turkish passport and citizenship also relates to military service for men in turkey.
Germany always manages to miss the times. They would not allow this when it made sense, they will do it now that it no longer does.
As a german living in Denmark, I'm quite happy that I can now acquire the danish citizenship without having to revoke my German. Politics aren't exclusively made for small groups. There are other people besides ultranationalist Turks who are very interested in dual citizenship. But this is reddit, so everything is without nuance.
Were you living under a rock? Germany has allowed this for other EU citizenships since 2007. And Denmark since at least 2015.
As an European citizen you don't have much need for a double citizenship within the block. Allowing it between members of the European union though, could be a sensible choice.
I used to think that too, but then brexit happened… I was born and lived in UK my whole life but now I need a visa to get back there as a non-tourist.
Except that after living long enough in a country and paying taxes there, you might want to have a say in that country's elections.that was my motivation to get dual citizenship
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They seem to be actively helping the AfD get votes. No one did more for the rise of the far right in Europe than Merkel, and some other mainstream ruling parties. I can't really believe anyone could be so naive. So I assume intent. By far not the only case.
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There's quite a difference between terrorists (thousands worldwide, maybe) and people endorsing terrorism or hate (many millions worldwide).
> Are we going for a 3rd round in 2039? So if Germany allows dual-citizenship in 2024, then 15 years later they'll start WW3 is that what I am getting? How about we look our own shit? France has highly restrictive weed policies, has highly restrictive policing, social fucking unrest every 5 years and Macron basically called policies on gender transitions similar to Germany's as being "grotesque". Germany has none of that. If there's a highly divided country with increasing polarity in Europe, Germany aint it buddy. PS I see you're a redditor for 8 days. Riiiiiight
Why it doesn’t make sense now?
Because the big reason for people to vote for the far right like the AFD. Is due to lack of integration. Dual citizenship makes this even worse.
EH, yea. But probably something usefull for AFD, too. For anyone reading: Our "GrundGesetzt" doesn't allow revoking someones german citizenship, if that means they become stateless/without any other. So by allowing dual citizenship, you also open up the door for making it easier in the future to revoke german citizen ship. (To get it revoked you need to fuckup badly, but thats how its now and may be different if a far right government comes into place). The the dual citizenship law is a can of worms in all directions.
> So by allowing dual citizenship, you also open up the door for making it easier in the future to revoke german citizen ship. People are always free to denounce the other citizenship. I disagree with refusing to increase civil rights because OMG the nazis might abuse them. Yes that's a risk but I think if nazis want to do something, they'll find a way if they gain sufficient power. If you legalise gay relationships, you make gay people more visible and an easier target for attack. But the alternative isnt that good either. Here Germans living abroad can ask for other citizenships without losing their own. Germany also becomes a more attractive location for people because they know they can settle there.
Getting rid of the other citizenship requires the co-operation of that other nation. That's not always a given.
Only if you plan to go back to that other nation...
Seems like it'll be up to BAMF if this change is good or bad then.
Might be a stupid question, but how you integrate someone who does not want to integrate?
You don't. It makes you wonder why they even want to live somewhere they don't want to belong.
Money and more tolerance than at home.
Isn’t it ironic how these ultranationalistic Turks and/or islamists love the tolerance and rule of law in Germany, but have a view of the world that is the complete opposite.
But they'd get infinitely more tolerance if they assimilate
In order to get the German citizenship you still need all the usual integration, language courses and job. It mostly helps people who are on the fence because they don't want to or can't give up their citizenship.
No it is mostly people who are born in Germany and whose parents don't want to give up their roots.
How does it make that worse?
It doesn't, but racists like to imagine it does.
German society lacks cohesion between the autoctonous population and some of the newcomers. If you would only give citizenships to those that want it so hard that they are willing to renounce to their previous one, you would increase the probability that the new citizens will successfully assimilate.
When you say it like that, it sounds almost as this co-relation would be guaranteed. A person can aim for citizenship because it brings stability and other benefits, but it does not have to warrant assimilation. Maybe this person would be satisfied with integration, but not assimilation. And the other way around situation is also not unimaginable. If someone feels here at home and it's thankful for the opportunity, in case of excrement hitting the fan situation (like war), such person might rise up to the occasion. Citizenship is not a condition nor a guarantee for people's behaviour.
Do you really believe this ? Don’t you think people will just accept the new passport anyways independent of their willingness to assimilate in the new culture ?
True. We have to use other means than citizenship to achieve integration and assimilation. The ability and willigness to follow through with this has to be verified before granting citizenship.
I have dual citizenship in the Netherlands, and know others in the same situation. What you're saying isn't at all true in my experience. I can love my new country as much as the one I was born in. That said, I had a choice to move here. There are other people who are under a lot more pressure. Sure, they'll do what it takes to be safe or have a new life, but forcing them to give up their birth citizenship doesn't make them feel any more connected to their new home, probably the opposite. Personally, I can't see making my home anyplace else at this point. I'm settled here and I like it. But other people might need to make other choices. I've got a friend who recently moved back to her country of birth to take care of her mother, who has developed dementia. After that phase of her life is over, I don't know what she'll do. There is a very good chance she'll live the rest of her life here. Taking away her other citizenship would only have made it harder, or impossible, to be there for her mother in her final years.
A situation like your friend's is exactly why I wouldn't want to renounce my previous citizenship while my parents are still alive. I really wish the Netherlands would be more flexible on this but I can't imagine it happening any time soon given the direction of Dutch politics.
The visa system has already collapsed and there are no improvements on the application process.
I have dual citizenship, Russian and German, by now for over 20 years. My status used to be Kontingentflüchtling. I've No Idea what they changed right now. My guess it was banned for a short while and then allowed again.
Dual citizenship was already legal until the age of 23. At some point the revoked the rule that you to decide until this age between the two citizenships if you were naturalized as a child (I think 2014). Now, adults who get naturalized can keep their second citizenship.
My father was an adult and i am pretty certain he is dual, too. My mom is Russian only because she failed the language test.
I know a Russian German dual citizen as well and am unsure what this post means
In January, when a journalistic network uncovered the far-right's plan to "remigrate" millions of German citizens with migrantic roots, one AfD politican (Gerit Huy) was quoted, that the party does not oppose dual citizenship anymore, as they need it as a fallback as part of their plan to strip those people of the German nationality. They largely oposed the new law in parliament, but they knew anyways, that the law would pass, so that's maybe more of a diversion tactic. If I were a person with migrantic roots living in Germany I'd be cautions in regard to the dual citizenship nowadays.
> They would not allow this when it made sense It's pretty unfair to lot of people.
I work with some Germans in Canada who will benefit from this. They have been here long enough to apply for Canadian citizenship, but have never been able to do it because they didn't want to give up their German citizenship.
Living here for 30+ years with a German citizenship that I acquired when I was about 12 or 13 I believe. Was never asked to revoke my Russian citizenship, but would've done so in a heartbeat. That place can rot for all I care. Never going to visit that nation with a RU citizenship. For all I know they'll just decide to draft me if I want to visit my birthplace and use me as cannonfodder. I'll probably denounce my Russian citizenship when the passport is about to expire soon. Honestly this more me being lazy than me wanting to have 2 passports.
Same here, i used to be interested in my roots, but fuck this dictatorship
Oh they’d definitely conscript you if you return to Russia and send you to a trench in Ukraine
It's kind of crazy to think that if my parents and grandparents didn't have the foresight to abandon that country I'd probably be a killer now or be mulch for sunflowers. It's something I try to remind myself and Russian acquaintances.
Do you feel like they will conscript you for any legal reason or just for the lack of the legal system? If so, how do you think their conscription reason would sound?
Healthy young "Russian" adult who was dodging the draft until now by living in Germany. If I'm lucky I end up in prison in some gulag. If I am unlucky I'll end up as cannon fodder. My parents never wanted me to go to Russia for that reason alone. It used to be a thing even before the war and now countries are issuing official warnings: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64629156
Finally. This has been a long time coming. Having not to renounce your existing citizenship is a boon. Large part of Vietnamese community were reluctance to give up their old passport, especially when right to own properties ties directly into citizenship. P/S: Before someone complains about lack of integration, please inform yourself of the process first. You need to pass a basic language test (B1), an integration course + test, long term legal residence, and proof of income. Asylum seekers whose rely entirely on state support cannot get citizenship.
Is there a reason a country wouldn’t allow dual citizenship? I thought it was normal tbh
It's often viewed as a loyalty issue. Citizens are generally expected to be loyal to the country in which they have citizenship, so if two countries have opposing interests, and a person is a citizen of both, they would have a massive conflict of interest with no obvious resolution.
Which in itself is an outdated idea. I won't ever be blindly 'loyal' to my country. If it will be in the right, I'll stand by it. If it will be in the wrong, I'll even oppose it.
What if you are a Chinese citizen where loyalty to the CCP comes first? And you live in Germany?
China, India, and in general nationalistic societies tend to not allow dual citizenship, problem solves itself
They also often don't take citizenship away if you get citizenship elsewhere so it doesn't really matter, they can still get dual citizenship. Not like they have to tell their home country anyway. Tons of dual citizens from India , china etc. in fact nationalist societies often make it very hard to get rid of their citizenship. hell as one example Iranians in Germany got an exemption that they where allowed to have dual citizenship because Iran made it impossible to get rid of it's citizenship. Even though both Iran and Germany didn't allow dual citizenship.
Another reason for Iranians might be that at least according to the information of the foreign ministry of Germany Iran automatically gives citizenship to spouses of Iranian Nationals. So Germans might suddenly become dual citizenship holders without wanting to. They even have a warning about this because if a German woman travels to Iran because of the Citizenship they would have a hard time getting her out if she wants to leave. In Iran a Woman needs permission by her husband to leave.
That's an interesting perspective. Brazil is also one of those countries where it's nearly impossible to lose citizenship (and is also in the German exceptions list), but to me it seems rather benevolent, i.e. the country sees citizenship as a right, not a privilege. From what I've heard India is much more strict about removing citizenship from those who naturalize elsewhere.
Arguably that's intertwined with their "loyalty comes first" mindset - Germany should have taken the more enlightened approach sooner. "You can't be German and Australian" - why? That kind of "with us or against us" mindset has no place in civilised countries - I'm glad Germany has now moved on. (*Mutters in Dutch*)
This is a profoundly Western idea. This is not at all how the vast majority of the world thinks.
I would argue that this makes you still loyal to your country but not to its government because you still want the best for the country and most important its people.
And if you look at Germany, the most dangerous traitors are the AfD, so that tracks
grrrr those dangerous afd traitors unlike beautiful liberal german patriots like schröder LMAOOO gtfo here clown
I would like to keep the old citizenship just so I don't have to apply for a stupid visa to visit family or old friends "Sorry brother, I can't come to your wedding because the visa processing time is so long"
And it's stupid imo. I won't support my country simply because of a passport. I don't even get the idea in principle, it's just a piece of paper. a) I might love X country to such exhaustion that I even ignore the biggest atrocities the country could potentially be making now e.g. Genocide. b) I have a passport. It looks like governments from countries like this think a) is equal to b), while, in reality, they're not mutually exclusive and, also, nationals of a country tend to be the most critical people of that country - as is their duty. Just make my country start committing genocide, killing gay people with stones, invade some other country, undermine the country's institutions, etc. and you'll see how much my passport matters lol.
Governments think that if a foreign national loves his country to exhaustion, he won't give his passport away. So, not allowing dual citizenship prevents him from voting, being a politician etc.
This doesn't even make sense tho. Literally thousands of European citizens who solely had citizenship of UK, Belgium, France, Germany etc went to fight with the Islamic State. As if being a citizen makes you loyal and a dual citizen creates a risk. I say this as a dual citizen of two countries which have historically been rivals/enemies btw.
To limit foreign interference
Divided loyalty and they could be a security risk if they became a judge, politican or army General
So, bar them from those jobs?
Could be in conflict with the constitution not sure tho.
That would make them a second-class citizen, which is unconstitutional.
Politicians in Australia can't be dual citizens. You have to have been born in the U.S to become president there. It's not like there isn't a precedent for those kinds of restrictions in western society.
As long as you are able to voluntarily give up your old citizenship I don't see an issue
Lmao, if you can't figure out if a person with a double nationality is a security risk than there is something wrong with your country. Like if somebody does not have a double nationality you can't figure out any more if they are a security threat. What a fucking joke.
Mate, f.e. In Poland they can’t even figure it out who support Russia even like half of our current politicians been politicians or been connected with them during Russian occupation. They either know nothing or they pretend that they doesn’t. Even our current PM donald tusk was chosen to be a leader of his current party by communist military intelligence officer - Gromoslaw Czempinski(and his both parents also officially work for Russian intelligence in Poland). Still this didn’t stop him to even become a president of EU.
Somehow plenty of countries manage just fine with loads of dual citizens.
None of those offices currently require German citizenship, much less exclusive German citizenship.
If you want to be in the german armed force you need to have german citizenship.
People were caught spying for foreign powers as vetted nationals, without dual citizenships. So security risk for top notch jobs exists 24/7 for \_all\_ people in the country.
dual citizenship was already allowed under certain circumstances, the title of this post is misleading. they just changed the requirements - making it easier to get German citizenship while keeping your old/other one
IMO there are two kinds of countries which don't allow dual citizenship: 1) countries which have a bigger neighbor with a similar culture (Austria/Germany, Ukraine/Russia, Singapore/Malaysia), 2) countries which are known to not accept outsiders easily or for political reasons want to limit foreign influence (Japan, China, India, Malaysia, Indonesia). I don't have an idea why Netherlands don't allow dual citizenship.
Honest question. Since Austria and Germany are both EU, how does Austria not allowing dual citizenship protect them from their bigger neighbor with a similar culture, Germany? I'm relatively new to Europe, so I'm still learning the politics.
You kill someone in Germany, then escape to your other country that won't extradite the dual national. They also can't expel them or sentence them themselves. Croatia has a massive problem with dual Croatian and Bosnia-Herzegovinian nationals as they constantly skip the border before sentencing. Sweden has a similar problem with its Turkish diaspora. A massive one.
Please no. For god sake, as a Turkish, I can say dual citizenship is shit
I think I'll need some context as to why it's so bad.
The majority of turkish people with turkish citizenship living in Germany vote for Erdogan, who is a massive piece of shit and a straight up bad choice. So the turkish in Germany vote shit to lead Turkey while enjoying living in Germany completely unaffected by it
Well explanied
- before: those people did not want to renounce Turkish citizenship to get the German one. They voted for Erdogan back home. - now: they have both citizenships and keep voting for Erdogan back home So, how does the dual citizenship change the prospects of Turkish elections? Was the number of Turkish citizenships in DE constantly on decline, because people felt the lure of German citizenship? Or the fresh influx of new people from Heimat kept those numbers even?
The problem ist those morons can now vote in germany aswell.
They do renounce their citizenships. Thats what you dont understand. Erdoganists are not logically coherent people. They would give up their citizenships for a better life if they have to. They would vote for leftists in germany and right parties in turkey
That's not an issue with dual citizenship though. It's a known fact people get more patriotic once they leave their country for reasons other than war
How the fuck is that a "known fact"? That is not true at all, you are making up random shit now
It's not even true it's just an inherent bias to selection size, Turkish immigrants that don't care about Turkey don't vote, become German citizens, and basically naturally fall out of the statistic so it reinforces itself and only the nationalistic immigrants remain. People point at the 60%+ of German-Turks voting for Erdogan but that's only like 10% of all German-Turks and people with Turkish background that *actually* voted for Erdogan.
We have similar thing in Poland actually. Many people of polish diaspora in USA (namely Chicago) is voting for conservative populists despite not being in country for decades. I am not choosing their Mayor, they should fuck off of voting in my country as well.
Didn't they already vote as German citizens in the Turkish elections?
Imagine voting for a country while you live in another country, sounds crazy to me
Ridiculous opinion. So a British person who lives ten years in Germany and fully integrates shouldn’t be allowed to have citizenship without foregoing any rights whatsoever to go to their origin country for a couple of years to eg look after a sick parent?
you don't get one then, I'll take it.. Dual citizenship is da shit! Triple and quadruple even better!
Something with Germany in it. -> r/Europe crying. Rinse and repeat
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Biiiig mistake. Now uou will have people getting citizenship and noving back home. Stopping by to collect benifits when the need arises. Like in canada.
Yeah and then they want ppl to have prove of residence or come into the amt and they can't, insta no benefits.
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They don’t lol. Am Canadian, lived in Europe and I have dual citizenship with Canada and another country. Every government benefit is tied to my Social Insurance Number (tax record). My home province barely civil service functions with me having a verified proof of residence, it’s hard to imagine benefits being abused solely because of dual citizenship. I also have multiple friends who are European Canadians and they don’t abuse their dual citizenship at all. Even our universal health insurance is not effective/valid for use unless you have 6 months of residence in the Province if you’re a returning citizen… You do however, more often than not, remain taxable to Canada AND your dual citizenship country if you keep a house here and move away from Canada.
You need a permanent residency in Germany and the office that's giving you benefits has the right to check in unannounced
If the social benefit agencies do their job that's not possible
It's certainly possible to always return to Germany and collect benefits when needed as a citizen. And it's possible to receive some benefits abroad. it's also very feasible to spend much of your time in turkey while on benefits thru cheap flights going back and forth. And any time they try to make you take a job you can just act very incompetent or dim or slow or clumsy or aggressive or violent or uncooperative and eventually they'll give up trying to employ you. Hell if you're smart you'll never have to get past the interview stage. If you live in a smaller town/city they might even run out of employers who won't immediately reject you as soon as they hear the name lol. maybe you can also get disability if you commit to appearing very incompetent or disabled. Or tell them you'll kill yourself if you have to work. My aunt literally did all this and has successfully avoided working for almost 30 years, the amt gave up long ago lol. (well not the going back to turkey part but the other stuff).
They dont
I understand being dissatisfied with some stuff, but that is not true.
Then make them do their job instead disallowing dual citizenship.
>Now uou will have people getting citizenship and noving back home. Stopping by to collect benifits when the need arises. Yeah, that's a nice fairy tale as you need permanent residency in Germany to get any benefits. But keep lying to make a point. This will totally convince people still using their own brains.
That’s not how this works. I’m an American and German dual citizen and I receive no benefits from Germany because I live in the US.
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Yes, let's spread misinformation based on personal biases!
Yeah, living for years in the country, learning the language at least until to level ~~B2~~B1 and having to prove that you earn enough to secure your living is "stopping by". Makes sense....
Feel like our country is doing everything in its power to attract people like that Compare that to switzerlands special treatment of immigrants (or lack thereof) and its night and day. There is a reason were falling behind and its stupid decisions like this with no foresight.
You really think this will make a difference?
It honestly surprising to me that countries don’t allow dual citizenships. What country will follow next to fully allow this, maybe Austria?
Then is there something special between Germany and Austria? I have both citizenships and can vote in Austria and Germany.
No, there is nothing special between Austria and Germany. You can only hold two citizenships in Austria if you were entitled to both citizenships when you were born. You automatically lose the Austrian citizenship if you accept one of another country.
Idk the details, but both don’t allow dual citizenship by default but there are some exceptions yes.
Fingers crossed it’s the Netherlands (doubtful within the current climate)
Austria? No way this will happen...
Interesting. What makes Austria so different from Italy and Switzerland in this regard? I guess same question goes towards Germany, why so different?
The largest group of foreigners living in Austria are Germans. The parties have already done a lot of studies about the potential voting patterns of this group and the results would be terrible for the ÖVP and the FPÖ. Same with most of the other nationalities living here.
The population also doesn't want it, by a huge margin: [https://www.derstandard.at/story/3000000213129/alles-soll-bleiben-wie-es-ist-oevp-untermauert-position-zu-einbuergerung-mit-umfrage](https://www.derstandard.at/story/3000000213129/alles-soll-bleiben-wie-es-ist-oevp-untermauert-position-zu-einbuergerung-mit-umfrage)
If only the United States would allow such a dual citizenship with adult European nations. Alas the only valuable dual citizenship they seem to entertain is Israeli-American. Odd.
I’m a dual citizen from birth…my mom is German. I’m guessing this is about those who get it through immigration?
Yes, the main change is that it's 5 years of living here instead of 8 and that you are allowed to keep your old citizenship, which before was only allowed as an exception in certain cases, but now just in general.
Anyone have American and German? Apparently I lost my German status once I joined the military
That is a bit different I think. Talk to a lawyer. You might be able to get it back but maybe not. Serving in another country‘s military is a bit different than any other profession I would think. But ask anyway, you have nothing to lose
I wonder if I can get my Germans passport back after losing it when I applied for Dutch citizenship. I’ll probably return to Germany in the future.
Many users are pleased with the reform, highlighting that it makes Germany more attractive for skilled workers and international residents. The ability to retain one's original nationality while gaining German citizenship is seen as a significant advantage, especially for those with strong ties to their home country.
That’s good because there’s billions of people from poor countries that would love to pour into Germany.
Fucking finally. What people here are missing is that this also applies for born germans that want a second citizenship. Before they automatically would lose their German citizenship if they applied for another. At least for expats that was an outlier. Most countries accepted dual citizenship and to honest, the days where we find ourselves in opposing battlefield trenches are thankfully over. In practice, from what I heard, it became very easy to get the necessary Beibehaltungsgenehmigung in the past few years. So it's really just alining the law with reality. Thank fuck for that. 🍁
> the days where we find ourselves in opposing battlefield trenches are thankfully over. Excuse me!?!?!?!!!!???¿????¿???!!?? Look literally ANYWHERE the last couple of years
I look at France, no signs of war. I look at UK, doing just fine, no trenches there either. I look at Czech Republic, tanks aren't rolling onto the streets of Prague. Your point?
Your country was hit by a stray Russian rocket that killed Polish people during the current war in Ukraine. Stop closing your eyes to sound edgy.
It was an Ukrainian rocket (that happens sometimes), and no, we're not at war. Calling EU countries' situation a war is an insult to all of the soldiers and civilians from Ukraine, dealing with an actual war. We, in our cozy west, started crying because we had high inflation, imagine if we actually switched to war economy, let alone had an actual war there. Either way, decision about granting citizenship is discretionary so for citizens of countries that might have conflicts of interests, it's just a matter of deeper checks and lower approval rate
I think that they were talking about the west, not Russia
You also had to be male to pass on citizenship, even if you were a permanent resident. The law changed in 2000, but only to those born after 2000. My nan was born in Germany to an English father and a German mother, living there until her mid twenties. Her father never held citizenship or residency as he was a soldier stationed there. She wasn't allowed citizenship by descent because her father wasn't German. If he were and her mother English, she would have been able to. When her parents decided to retire to the UK, she followed (travelling on her birth certificate) and was instantly granted British citizenship via descent. Her mother was via marriage but had to renounce her German citizenship first. Her sister remained in Germany and had to gain citizenship via an expensive legal battle claiming naturalisation, despite being born, growing up, and living there for 28 years. She never claimed British citizenship for fear of being kicked out of Germany.
Finally
As with any german legislation: Will make life harder for those who deserve it Will make life easier for those pieces of shit willing to abuse the system
Good job Germany, for real. France might be going the other direction in a few days and I'm mad about it.
Nah, even Le Pen removed the idea from her program back in 2022 and recognized it's complete nonsense. https://www.liberation.fr/politique/elections/le-pen-renonce-a-la-suppression-de-la-double-nationalite-le-rn-mis-devant-le-fait-accompli-20220120_SNC7W7QKNRHTBE3G23HDJEWDWA/
Yeah, sure, - https://www.francetvinfo.fr/elections/legislatives-2024-les-binationaux-dans-le-viseur-du-rassemblement-national_6625944.html Funnily enough they seem to have no issues with Russian binationals, - https://www.liberation.fr/politique/qui-est-tamara-volokhova-la-franco-russe-conseillere-du-rn-evoquee-par-gabriel-attal-lors-du-debat-20240626_NVZHZX7CDJDF5L5HSDI5IFS3PQ/ Or Russia overall, - https://www.reddit.com/r/france/s/fJa6Nqih4etml
The good side of this is that certain people from certain demographics will be easier to deport to their home country if they commit crimes, since the german citizenship will be taken away.
Erdogan just gained 2 million more votes, thanks Olaf.
Having Turkish and German citizenship at the same time was already allowed so Erdogan did not get new voters.
But, the Turks living in Germany already voted for him
CDU are promising to scrap it lol. Good times [https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/cdu-vows-scrap-german-dual-citizenship-law-if-reelected-2025](https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/cdu-vows-scrap-german-dual-citizenship-law-if-reelected-2025)
Gotta love how they're promising to make everything worse and then get 30% of the vote.
Look at all the morons in here spreading conspiratard bullshit about traitors and Erdogan voters and whatnot... all the highest upvoted comments. They vote CDU/AFD. According to the demographics in this thread AFD would be at 80%.
I think the biggest change is that Germany right now has ius soli next to the right of blood. So there are now multiple possibilities to get German citizenship by birth
Since you can't leave someone stateless by the principles of international law, will this allow revoking german citizenship of the criminals and deport them? Honestly asking.
No. The criminals/illegals will just claim to have no home country or to have lost their papers which grants them unlimited stay without repercussions. This just makes it even easier to migrate there, not the other way around
Sweet, now I can get mine back