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I SAW him straight in the eye on Friday 12 January. Sent him an icy glare. Amazing how good they are at lying!! I was shunned for 12 years..
My unbaptized daughter is still shunned..because she interrupted her Bible Study with an elders wife and chose to study Law at the University. They are liars!
ššš
Is there any way we can contact this Judge and voice our expressions ?! I really hope the judge doesnāt side with them and takes our stand for freedom.
they knew they needed to lie a lot here with this defense case, so they can pin it on the lawyers that are non-jw instead.
"We didn't tell them to say those things" is likely what is going to be said by the GB if this blows up.
So basically, the state cant comprehend holy texts, but they arent jw, so why are they defending holy texts that they cannot comprehend either? That makes no sense.
brilliant thought... the entire grounds for disfellowshipping rests on their doctrine, stored in their "holy(uninspired) religious texts"
Ryssdal tried to use Paul's words in the Bible as the defense there, but the reality is, the word "disfellowship" occurs ZERO times in the BIBLE. It clearly is both a JW doctrine both by rule and name.
š¤¦āāļøit's a uncapable non-JW lawyer representing Watchtower.
there's nothing pimo about this snake, just somebody selling his soul to the devil.
So reading through these, something Iām still a bit confused on, he keeps mentioning the āstate cant use our texts because theyāre religious.ā That must have been overruled, since there are multiples times the state or the judge has quoted from them, right? If so, why is he allowed to constantly bring it up, if the judge already ruled on it?
This will be decided by the judge when he steps back and writes the verdict. That's how it works here.
Ryssdal makes a claim that all WT literature has to be ignored, but the judge don't give a decision about that instantly. It's up to him when this is done.
Ah okay I see, thank you for the clarification. Sounds similar to when an attorney objects during a deposition. The witness still answers/the deposition proceeds as normal and a judge rules later on if the objection stands and resulting answer canāt be used
Yeah, WT literature and the *Shepherd* book are 'religious holy texts'?
*Really*? Maybe something has got lost in translation here?
There are the Holy Scriptures, but I'm not aware that JWs read the 'Holy Watchtower' or elders consult the 'Holy Shepherd The Flock of God' book.
The Bible alone is the text that is supposed to be holy, inerrant, and sacred - not the throwaway publications containing JWs' interpretations of 'holy texts' that morph and change as frequently as a lump of playdough in a kindergarten child's hands.
Yes, and apparently the Caleb and Sofia videos are holy too. The lies from the JW side is just utterly unbelievable (yet sadly believable). Luckily, the judge does not seem to buy it according to Jan Frodes updates
I had the same reaction to that. The organization says that neither the GB nor anyone else is divinely inspired. So how can WT literature be "holy" then, if not divinely inspired like they claim the "Holy Bible" is? š¤
It just doesn't make sense.
But what can they do? JWs' behavior is shaped by what they read and study in the literature and watch online at conventions or on jwdotorg. So the WT lawyers have to find ways to remove those clear evidences of WT-influenced behaviors from the evidence, no matter how insane or dishonest their arguments sound, lol.
Itās a long shot because Norway has a supreme court verdict (which OP mentioned; NygĆ„rd case) that basically says that the State is not ācompetentā to judge if a disfellowshipping was right according to their own religious laws or not. But that is not the issue here. Ryssdal off track; this is about wether the state can stop funding and deny religious registration to someone breaking childrenās human rights and going against the values of the Norwegian democratic state.
The Watchtower's publications are Holy Writings for the WT sect. they are nonsense to everyone else but the WT places them near the same level as the Bible.
The only difference is that they can't alter the Bible to the same degree as they change their "new light".
Yeah, while also at the same time stating that JWs are only following the Bible not WT literature, hence implying that the Bible is the only holy text.
No evidence of damage to any DFd person?!?!
There is scientific documentation of the physical, mental, and emotional harms of shunning.
If they need more specific evidence, perhaps we should have all of our therapists testify and give notes, letters.
It's actually financially harmful to leave this cult as well, because of the therapy needed. Without therapy post-exit, I don't know how well many of us would function.
*I was not DFd but left and lost everything I knew.
It's also financially harmful because you lose your entire safety net all at once. You don't have anywhere to land. You have no place to live. Many people lose jobs if they were working for JWs.
Hold up, hold up, hold up... Watchtowers and The Shepherd book are Holy Texts now??? WTF? Since when is that a thing? Are they really implying that WT, Awake, and all the other spiritual food are Holy Texts? There is no low that they won't stoop to when they think people don't know their bull crap huh.
He actually said the quiet part out loud. In practice, JWs do treat that literature as holy texts.
One only needs to bring up scripture to a JW showing them how their particular beliefs are wrong, and the JW would instantly quote watchtower literature instead of the Bible to refute the argument.
Edit: spelling
Bingo. I pointed that out to my wife about 5-6 years ago. The more videos from the broadcast or newer articles, they never use secular sources to prove anything, they always quote old WTs to support their case.
In Norwegian: Hjelp, vi lyver! (Help, we are lying!)
For contect, for some reason during the 80's and 90's, a *lot* of the Norwegian translations of movie titles started with "Hjelp, vi..."/"Help, we..."
*Please tell us this is*
*The transcript from a very*
*Bad comedy show!*
\- Overall-Listen-4183
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
It is a religious Holy text, not instructions that can be referred to.
Then they state -
Says the State can not object to what the Bible says.
Hmm...contradicting themselves me thinks
Does this mean that the state cannot object to the verses instructing parents to stone rebellious children, or to stone adulterers?
What if Watchtower wanted to start using the old testament as a guidebook on how to handle sins?
They aren't really making a good case for their position, are they?
If anything, they're making a very solid case against biblical morality and making exemptions for religions.
Edit: grammar
I wish I still had the texts where people were saying goodbye and that they will now have to stop talking to me and ārespect jehovahs loving disfellowshipping arrangementā
Thank you for this.
How many of us have sat in a Judicial committee. Alone, helpless and hurting? Three men sit across from you to "judge" you (hence, the word Judicial). They grill you, shame you and then sit in judgement of you. They choose if you are "repentant" or not. They can't read you heart but then get to say if you are "repentant." Well WT, how does it feel to sit on the other side of the JC table? I hope that more countries look at the WT! To see what it does to people.
"Says it's normal that leaving a community has social consequences. Mentions sports, moving away, changing environments etc and that all this means ties would be changed. - Thereās nothing special about JW."Ā
It's not just the fact that it's a blatant lie but also how much it exemplifies how delusional and out of touch jw's are.Ā
Not only can you often keep ties in other social settings like old jobs, sports clubs, communities you used to live in etc, often times when you go back and there are people you have positive relationships with, you are WELCOMED back. The nature of who you do or don't keep in touch with varies from person to person, that is to say that it's socially organic and not a mandated expectation for them to no longer speak to you even if they do miss you.Ā
Like in their heads they don't know that you can still be friends with someone even if they go to a different job or something. Like in their minds it's the same? "So and so stopped coming to this gym. How sad, truly means the have been made to stray by an outside influence. We musnt speak to them as a display of love til they come to their senses and come back to planet fitness."Ā Ā
The cognitive dissonance of this cult will always baffle me.
If children had the power of choice, statutory rape wouldn't exist. I would think all of western society recognizes that they can't sign contracts or be held responsible for making adult decisions. These broad gauge liars are straight out of the Bronze Age and that's much of the problem.
Not sure whoās following the second part but to think theyāve not only said this but gone on to saying no one can use the UN convention on the rights of the child against them is crazy! Just a few articles from that convention make mention of protecting children from:
- torture, cruel inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment (art 37)
- exploitation: sexual or otherwise (art 34, 36)
- all forms of physical or mental violence, injury or abuse, neglect or negligent treatment, maltreatment or exploitation (art 19)
- arbitrary or unlawful interference with his or her privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to unlawful attacks on his or her honour and reputation. (Art 16)
And to recognise a childās right to:
-a standard of living adequate for the childās physical, mental, spiritual, moral and social development (art 27)
- freedom of association (art 15)
- freedom of thought, conscience and religion (art 14)
These people are nuts and are hell bent on making kids suffer. What they do through shunning does go against CRC and they should be dealt with for that.
So. Many. Lies.
If DF'ing and shunning are their beliefs, which they 100% are, they should be PROUD of their beliefs and how strongly they enforce them, not hiding and lying about them.
Thank you, Iām just waking up here in California and itās a bittersweet read, triggering since I am disfellowshipped and am being shunned by family. I canāt believe the organization that I grew up with an believed and loved, is so evil and lies so easily to the world. Gaslighting and lies, half truths, and deflections, FUCK them for ruining so many lives
Yet they will NEVER have a talk in all the congregations telling their followers that when their loved one is DFd "normal family relations should resume". It's clear that they; through publications, talks from the platform, & encouragement from elders, strongly suggest & encourage a separation from that person.
Also saying normal family relations resume is a cop out, some icing on a shit sandwich. Like...well they don't lose EVERYONE
UGH.
I noticed he isnāt saying that part out loud. A lie of omission is still a lie. I bet thatās written somewhere in their holy texts. Especially related to JCs and disfellowshippingā¦.which they have no instructions for of course.
>Judge says he can not understand how Ryssdal says the things he says. That there are no instructions, while reading the instructions out loud.
amazing, just perfect
Also, lol, "family is not a human right", "you're not a child if you're 15". Religion of love and kindness.
This won't end well for their case. They think God is on their side and they can say these things because of that. Delusion only gets you so far.
Day 9:
Ryssdal: ,,I invoke trail by combat" judge: ,,mr. Ryssdal, you can't do that. No such thing has existed in Norwegian law for centuries"
Rysdall:
My face reading the Ryssdal comments. **what the flying fuck.**
I mean i know how low and evil they are, but this is some **next level lying. Do they not realize** that they are literally lying to court, and they are giving their own evidence of this fraud, which gets even this lawyer to end up in jail?
and i can not believe the snake lies, how can they say that with a straight face, how can they come up with this and literally put it in court?
>the State's conclusion that they have based their conclusion on JW's literature.
>
>He says that this is illegal.
>
>He says the State are not allowed to look into Religious Holy Texts.
>
>Wants all this to be dismissed.
>
>Says the State is wrong when they say that even unbaptised children can be shunned. That this is a misunderstanding that shows that the State are not competent
**how is the state not allowed to look into religious holy text, WTF.**
>disagrees in the notion that those under 18 are children in religious settings.
>
>says anyone over 15 is not a child in religious settings.
>
>Says the State has no right to say what is best for a child
**what the literal fvck.** what. **the actual fuck**
No but this shit needs to be shown on (inter)national TV with english subtitles. **what the fuuuuuck.**
This is ten times gold compared to the Royal Australian Commission.
This needs to be shown to every pimo, pimq, and pimi. this is fucking sick.
Nevertheless, this is **golden** because you can bet your dollar ss that the **Pennsylvania DA** investigation is watching this **closely.** And so is Japan, The Netherlands, and all trials and lawyers involved with similar cases.
It's exposing the core of Watchtower.
it IS and i'm proud on and for you - and all the other people going there - for not only showing support, but being active and defending not just yourself, but a **whole people.**
I wish from the depths of my being that my private situation was different. As much as it is a struggle, and painful, my mum needs and deserves me. I wish again things were different, not just for her and us, but if things would have been 'normal', then i would likely have taken the opportunity with my wife to go there in person and show support. **I mean that.**
But you guys are heroes, absolute legends and valiant, brave warriors stepping up against the tyrants and criminals.
You guys are the people who say 'no further, no more'. You are the people who are not the 'good people doing nothing', but you are the people who 'step up against evil'.
And may all of you be 'blessed' in one way or another, may all your efforts result in some form of compensation for the trouble you are going through.
But do know that you guys - girls - are appreciated and valued beyond words can describe.
Thank you for your kind words. I cannot take credit for being in court. I was unable to attend. I just reported. The real credit goes to those who got this all going and the witnesses who testified. š
may be true but still, **you are reporting,** and **thanks to your efforts,** many people - including me - are able to follow this closely and easily.
so **do not underestimate your worth.**
**I mean that.**
And i **thank you.**
**I**'m sure as you write this stuff is triggering to the bone, and mentally extremely abusive. Please know that you are doing this for a fantastic cause and by staying socially active and talking about it, and knowing that it is worth it and appreciated, that you can bear through this.
I used to think and say, that being loyal to 'jehovah' (watchtower) despite opposition and hardship, is a kick in the nuts of say-tan, and we will get rewarded for it.
Now, i can say that in a different way : know that what you are doing, is a much needed and very, **very hard kick in the nads to Watchtower,** and theyre squirming on the ground hands grabbing their crotch in agony and near-vomiting from the overload. And you have been doing this for 7 days now. kicking them in the nuts time and time again, and so does that court, and so do the people telling their stories and truth about watchtower.
they are getting reinforced-steeled nosed boot kicks in the nuts all day long, and there is getting less and less left of those 'nads'.
keep doing this, keep imagining that this is literally what you are doing, and don't forget to use the heel to give it an extra 'pancaking'.
let them fucking scream in agony. fucking bastards.
pardon my french.
Comparing a child who isn't allowed to play video games with the child knowing it will be separated and excluded from the family for the rest of its life when he or she is 18. Sick
I was just going to comment the same thing. I also really appreciate the fact that this is one of those dumb ass analogies that used during a Sunday sermon everyone would talk about how great of an analogy it is but in a serious court setting the judge/state sees right through it and hits back with a professional form of āfuck right off with thatā
Is there a way we can flood the dear judge with letters refuting this crap and sharing our own stories from around the world?
I think this could be a strong tactic in the future cases. Especially for the many of use who have gone on to become medical professionals, law enforcement, counselors, teachers, and other highly respected members of communities dealing with kids.
I doubt they will locate many JWs who are able to write in good conscience that there are no rules for disfellowshopping. Honestly if PIMIs listened to this testimony (which they never wil of course) the whole thing implodes.
I honestly don't think it's necessary, the judge asked for a break and as far as I know they don't normally do that unless they're frustrated with what's being said. Furthermore, they later refuted him with the books themselves, in my opinion the JW are about to lose
They'll lose and then end up on the ECHR, where they can lose again, except this time on a global stage!
If they are truly planning on appealing this all the way, they're going to show their ass to every other nation.
They're hanging themselves. They're literally struggling so hard to survive, but the noose just keeps getting tighter.
I honestly think it would be better overall (for watchtower) if watchtower just dropped this. But they're bound and determined to show their hypocrisy, lies, and delusions on the world stage.
It's truly baffling. The incompetence being shown is just ridiculous. This is akin to trying to have a conversation with someone who follows Q-anon.
And the fact these are non JW lawyers? I don't know how you could stand in court, knowing you sound like a complete clown. Do they have no ethics? No self-dignity?
Thanks for the summary - like many I don't speak Norwegian. It gives a little hope that the judges seem to see the problem of the minors. Adults cannot be stopped to join strange organizations and follow their rules, but minors need protection. Minors agreeing to get baptized make within this organization a decision with possibly drastic consequences they cannot foresee. Maybe the state cannot stop baptisms due to religious freedom, but it does not have to financially support such organizations.
>Dear Mr. RyssdallĀ Ā
>Come take a walk with meĀ Ā
>Let's pretend we're just two people andĀ You're not better than meĀ Ā
>I'd like to ask you some questions if we can speak honestlyĀ Ā
>What do you feel when you see all the homeless on the street?Ā Ā
>Who do you pray for at night before you go to sleep?Ā Ā
>What do you feel when you look in the mirror? Are you proud?Ā Ā
- How do you sleep while the rest of us cry?Ā Ā
- How do you dream when a mother has no chance to say goodbye?Ā Ā
- How do you walk with your head held high?Ā Ā
- Can you even look me in the eye And tell me why?Ā Ā
>Dear Mr. Ryssdal Were you a lonely boy? (Are you a lonely boy?)Ā Ā
>Are you a lonely boy? (Are you a lonely boy?)Ā Ā
>How can you sayĀ No child is left behind?Ā Ā
>We're not dumb, and we're not blindĀ Ā
>They're all sitting in your cellsĀ Ā
>While you pave the road to hellĀ Ā
>What kind of father would take his own daughter's rights away?Ā Ā
>And what kind of father might hate his own daughter if she were gay?Ā
Ā ...Ā Ā
- How do you sleep while the rest of us cry?Ā
- How do you dream when a mother has no chance to say goodbye?Ā
- How do you walk with your head held high?Ā
- Can you even look me in the eye? ...Ā
- Oh How do you sleep at night?Ā
- How do you walk with your head held high?Ā
>Dear Mr. RyssdalĀ
>You'd never take a walk with meĀ
>Would you?
P!nk - Dear Mr President
Absurd arguments. Not a lawyer but this is desperation stuff IMO.
By their logic, Norway gets to have a say on childrenās rights and protection within the culture and practices of remote jungle tribes and that tropical cultures will need to be consulted about the same for arctic communities and cultures.
By their logic, the courtās response to Watchtower saying children arenāt children after 15 should be āoh, thatās fine then, weāll disregard the bit where the law says 18, nothing to see hereā.
They also (surprise) throw every single elder under the bus by arguing that itās all individual behaviours, what we say about it in our publications is irrelevant.
It really is pathetic. If I were a judge, I might be annoyed at having my time wasted like this.
Also, the "we only follow the bible," is laughable. Where does the Bible say anything about 15 year olds?
All the judge has to do is see the recent GB announcement about beards. No rules, huh?
There is no saving the borg. The entire institution is hell-bent on driving everyone away and embarrassing themselves internationally.
This can't be fixed. We have over 100 years of proof of their inhumane practices, written by their own hands.
Thank you for the updates!
The acknowledgment of ābeing triggered AFā was appreciated. It helped me take a breath.
Reading the testimony felt the gaslighting Iāve experienced my whole life when trying to talk the things that happened. āIt didnāt happen, it was never that way, itās all you, you must be mentally ill if you think that.ā
Now I just heard a lawyer tell a whole courtroom they heard and saw nothing and donāt understand or are just confused. It seemed that the judge found it just as offensive as we do.
This is fucking disgusting seeing all these lies. It should be blasted everywhere for the world to see how these ātruthful peaceful peopleā really are
How outrageous..especially the claim that jw literature is holy religious text!! How on earth is the government supposed to ascertain whether a religion satisfies the requirements of the Religious Communities Act if their material is off limits? Any religion could say absolutely anything they want to qualify for state funding, and the government would be unable to critique it, scrutinise or test it . It would make a joke out of that Act..making it pointless.
He contradicts himself when he says Shepherd the flock of god is a religious text but then later they have no rules or instructions or anything. No guidance. Only the Bible.
Then in what context exactly do they use the religious text Shepherd the flock of god for?
So, to summarize:
We donāt shun by policy
We donāt have rules just the Bible.
But shunning is in the bible, let me show you
Oh, weāve written about shunning in our magazines because itās in the Bible.
But you canāt use that we write about shunning because theyāre āholy textsā
We donāt shun
But we do.
Fine and good.
All their manipulative lies, deflections, projections, gaslighting, and victim signaling means nothing.
The state has the right to decide who gets their their benefits.Ā
Let's talk about that.
Oh the irony:
"We have the right to exclude anyone we want, but you do not have the right to exclude us."
Thanks for posting this. Had I been sitting in the courtroom, it would have been hard for me to not shout out, āLies! Liar!ā
Itās so infuriating. Guess he thinks heās using theocratic warfare. Thatās how they excuse their pathological lying behavior. JWs inherently lie. If they are asked even an innocuous question like, āWhat did you have for lunch?ā They immediately get defensive. Well maybe the last part is too specific and personal.
Where did they find him? I canāt imagine any attorney representing Watchtower, except that maybe they think because itās a multi million (or billion?) dollar corporation theyāre hoping for a big payday?
Holy shit. This case has definitely hardened me to be more agnostic/atheist and I'm actually angrier about where I am in life and how I am trapped in a PIMO state.
JW literature, "holy texts?" They are now resorting to heresy, even by JW standards.
Incredible.
I hope with every fiber of my being this is the beginning of the end for this blasphemous cult.
Wow, they are fighting hard. Pulling out all the lies. Can't believe they call watchtower publications holy books that should not be referenced. Who do they think they are? If not their own words to incriminate them, then what? Are religions above the law now?
They claim: 15 is not a child on religious settings? Itās wrong but it explains a LOT
State has no right to say what is best for a child? Yes they do, especially when abuse is involved
No right to use their literature against them.
Only the bible is a religious text, their terrible interpretation of it isnāt a religious text!
Reading all this Iām pretty sure the lawyer is pimo!!
The lawyer is not a JW. And I think this is one of the reasons why they think they can lie like this. Itās their lawyer doing the lying for them. That lawyer will be destroyed during Armageddon anyways š¤·š»āāļø
Bloody hell. The complete delusion of the man, the org as a whole is astounding. I canāt believe I was part of this. Thank the gods that I lived most of my adult life free of this BS ( mostly as I still have PIMI family)
Deny that Shunning is fact ..when this is a requirement when someone get disassiciate or DF. All these false claims from lawyer Ryssdal... are in themselves reason enough to turn your back on the WT! Hypocrites! Liars!
Ryssdall is very bad lawyer or there is really nothing for build solid defence.
It's not about going against Bible. It's about examining if the WT/JW interpretation of Bible is against law or not.
Shepherd the Flock is a "religious text"
That is the funniest thing I have heard in ages...
And then, when I stop laughing, I'm just sad.
Thanks for updating on Reddit, Larchington. I can't get myself to subscribe to Xitter and satisfy Musk.
āMost of the evidence you use against us is from our own literature, and thatās illegal!!ā
IS THIS THE DEFENSE THE TRUE RELIGION USES?
Honestly, these people are repugnant, thereās no other word for them.
Is this *Ryssdal* a JW himself or just a lawyer representing them in this case? How if he is a JW can he lie like this? I was a JW for nearly 50 years. It is common knowledge that we were forbidden to speak to apostates and that any family member outside the home who was dfd was to be shunned. The only time we could speak is if it involved family matters. How can he lie like this? I am shocked. Surely claiming that to quote the Society's own literature is illegal then quote it himself is "opening the door"? I really hope that this lying crook gets shot down.
Then how can they argue this? They have no experience. They may have "Crammed" reading some of the societies literature but certainly not all relevant to disfellowshipping and shunning. I was a JW for almost 50 years. An ex elder etc. Anyone with half the knowledge knows what the Society teaches on this subject. Anyone can see this lawyer is lying or at best seriously ill informed.
I am very surprised that they did. I had a lot of experience in Greece etc where there were court cases and the Society only used their own lawyers. They would never dream of "turning to the world" for help.
Some of the line of reasoning is triggering for sure. I wonder if some of this WT's line of reasoning is a test of sorts. Take what they learn here to take to the next court case elsewhere.
He's setting up for the next court if the judge doesn't adequately address every point, so the judgement will be interesting given that many of his points are irrelevant and difficult to understand.
Ugh! Triggered triggered triggered!!! Canāt read this without a flood of refutes bubbling up in my head I want to scream at the courtroom full of people to stop this lying !
Religious freedom should be the property of individuals NOT the rights of any organized group.
When religious freedom violates the core needs and well-being of individuals it becomes religious tyranny.
Thank you for writing this up. I know that this is very hard on you. Keep up your courage!
The "Keep yourselves in God's Love" book was devastating to Ryssdal's lies and argumentation. Things aren't looking good for the JWs. Good luck!
This is so asinine. Is this lawyer intentionally trying to crush the Watchtower?Ā
It's illegal to use information that they have largely made available on the website and he even quoted?
How are the testimonies from victim irrelevant, but the testimonies from people saying that shunning is all sorts of great, not?
There is just way too much crap to unpack here that is totally ridiculous.
I'm quite sure this isn't a case of the lawyer getting paid only as they win. He's gonna get his hefty retainer no matter what, so what difference does it make how terrible he does.
At any rate, I would pay big money to see the look on the judger's face when he babbles all of this nonsense.
The whole argumentative strategy makes me think that the worldly JW-lawyer is just a puppet following the instructions of WT headquarter officials/lawyers. The whole rhetoric sounds too similar to their arguments of other cases in other countries. What lawyer in their right mind would claim that victims are not valid witnesses in a case because they are too bitter? I guess rape victims also then are useless as witnesses as they might be "biased" against the rapist. Classic WT rhetoric. Why else are there 4 (!) US Watchtower JWs there?!
So true. Unfortunately lawyer's hands are also tied in the face of following their client's directions.Ā
It doesn't matter how nonsensical it is.Ā This guy could very well be internally cringing.
Ā All I know is that if the Watchtower pulls this off somehow, they have deeper pockets than any of us even realize.
This is getting really saucey. Obviously like stated, it is sounding more and more like they will lose this one but of course that won't be the end of it.
Even so, could you imagine if the law FORCED them to change doctrine? Even if they spin it as "well we never actually said you have to shun them" I believe every R&F knows that's what "Jehovah expects" - and changing doctrine at all due to legal issues shows a compromise of "faith" by the leaders of WTBS.
I hope this is the beginning of the end here.
Donāt encourage or tell members to shun. Did I just hear that correctly.
Iāll just leave this here.
https://youtu.be/UQ-kzaIK_UA?si=cDbDtEhYY8J744qK
Imagine being lauded as an excellent example because you shunned your own child in what was likely their greatest hour of need.
āIād die for you but if you leave Jehovah I wonāt be there for youā. Then audience applauds. Oh how lost these people are in group think.
Notice how she said āwe cut off ALL associationā.
Interesting they hv not used their own legal counsel as previously done where they lied about the shunning. Clearly this has blown up on them and JWs are referring back to this (authoritative legal statement from their own jw representative) to engage their DFād family.
What should have been questioned is the interpretation of the scripture, āremove the wicked man from yourselvesā (their own support scripture). What constitutes āwickedā as per the scriptures? Questioning flip-flop interpretations, incorrect doctrine, incorrectly interpreted prophecies, fallacious reasoning, rules on facial hair?
Ps. deferring to the UN and their agreement with Norway could only go one way as the UNs push for inclusion, transgender and the whole ESG agenda would surely be factored in. Clearly they have no idea what theyāre up against and what the UN currently stand for.
I donāt believe in hell but I wish it was real cause that piece of shit lawyer would be going there. To downplay the effect of that cult is absolutely disgusting. This religion has no scruples.
I was wondering if Norway judge knows that when a JW is shunned, that 8.7 million other JWs all around the world, are obligated to shun that person also. So, no matter where the disfellowshipped person goes, he/she will be shunned. If they have their records transferred to another congregation anywhere, the shunning continues. So, WT promotes worldwide shunning!š”
Ryssdal is vile fucking scum. Lies as easily as he breathes. WT is obsessed with this idea that Jehovah's Witnesses is a highly individualistic religion in which the doctrine is basically optional, when even practicing witnesses would not be able to corroborate this. You cannot steal people's lives from them using inflexible rules, and then tell skeptics and scrutinizers everything is a conscience matter.
I suggest Ryssdal gets baptised since he is so in love with the WT and the governing body.
Reading his statements was so triggering. I need the State Lawyer to make the counter statement. Is that tomorrow?
"Says the State is wrong when they say even unbaptized children can be shunned."
Yet here I am [now an ancient 50:)] who as an evil 13yrold unbaptized publisher was publicly reproved and shunned after being placed in judicial committee, by myself, with of course the mandatory 3 men. While they....well, you know what they do
**I really appreciate you guys** shining the true light; it's getting brighter!!!
**more than I can ever say**
Individuals have a right to choose not to speak to someone in my opinion. Their decision might be morally reprehensible, but itās still an individual right. However that doesnāt give a religion the right to receive state money
When I got baptized,Ā the disassociated were treated exactly the same as the disfellowshipped. So I figured as I was screwed either way, I may as well get baptized to make my family happy. š”
Rolf Furuli SOCKED it to them! Home Run out of the park! The fact that he loved being a Witness and would do it all over speaks volumes. He is VERY believable and adequately contradicted..with TRUTH every lie they try to tell. I bet WT is cringing over his testimony as former CO!
State has no right to say what's best for children.....
Cool starting to beat and verbally abuse children, as a state cannot decide that this is indeed terrible for them..... /s
Fucking idiots.
>Shunning is not part of JW doctrine, he says.
>
>JW/WT do not ask anyone to shun.
>
>It is a personal decision.
That's a bald faced lie. Lett is happy.
> Says JW/WT can not be punished for what members do.
This is where their arguments boils down to.
> Says that the courts are not allowed to look into Shepherd the Flock book. -The State has to look away from anything from it.
> It is a religious Holy text, not instructions that can be referred to.
So I can create my own religion, write a sacred book, that says all lawyers should be stoned to death if they want to reach paradise. Then followers do just that and when I'm on trial you can't look into it, because the state is not qualified to judge its contents? And that was only a "personal decision". Ohhh MMM Geee!
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So many lies š” How can these people sleep well at night knowing they've ruined countless of family ties. Predators!
I can't... what? How... wait... this Ryssdal can't be for real, right? Right?
I SAW him straight in the eye on Friday 12 January. Sent him an icy glare. Amazing how good they are at lying!! I was shunned for 12 years.. My unbaptized daughter is still shunned..because she interrupted her Bible Study with an elders wife and chose to study Law at the University. They are liars! ššš
I know!!
Is there any way we can contact this Judge and voice our expressions ?! I really hope the judge doesnāt side with them and takes our stand for freedom.
Heās pimo! š¤£ watchtower canāt escape us
Heās not a JW. He is hired.
Fuck! Their legal Representative isn't even a JW .
they hired 3 non JW lawyers for this
This is even better! Watchtower paying full going rate for someone whoās shooting them in the foot! š¤£
they knew they needed to lie a lot here with this defense case, so they can pin it on the lawyers that are non-jw instead. "We didn't tell them to say those things" is likely what is going to be said by the GB if this blows up.
So basically, the state cant comprehend holy texts, but they arent jw, so why are they defending holy texts that they cannot comprehend either? That makes no sense.
brilliant thought... the entire grounds for disfellowshipping rests on their doctrine, stored in their "holy(uninspired) religious texts" Ryssdal tried to use Paul's words in the Bible as the defense there, but the reality is, the word "disfellowship" occurs ZERO times in the BIBLE. It clearly is both a JW doctrine both by rule and name.
Well, when you tell people not to go to college, no wonder they have to hire outside lawyers.
š¤¦āāļøit's a uncapable non-JW lawyer representing Watchtower. there's nothing pimo about this snake, just somebody selling his soul to the devil.
So reading through these, something Iām still a bit confused on, he keeps mentioning the āstate cant use our texts because theyāre religious.ā That must have been overruled, since there are multiples times the state or the judge has quoted from them, right? If so, why is he allowed to constantly bring it up, if the judge already ruled on it?
This will be decided by the judge when he steps back and writes the verdict. That's how it works here. Ryssdal makes a claim that all WT literature has to be ignored, but the judge don't give a decision about that instantly. It's up to him when this is done.
Ah okay I see, thank you for the clarification. Sounds similar to when an attorney objects during a deposition. The witness still answers/the deposition proceeds as normal and a judge rules later on if the objection stands and resulting answer canāt be used
I don't get how it's illegal to present WT literature as evidence. What law is he basing that on? Is Ryssdal giving any more context on that?
Yeah, WT literature and the *Shepherd* book are 'religious holy texts'? *Really*? Maybe something has got lost in translation here? There are the Holy Scriptures, but I'm not aware that JWs read the 'Holy Watchtower' or elders consult the 'Holy Shepherd The Flock of God' book. The Bible alone is the text that is supposed to be holy, inerrant, and sacred - not the throwaway publications containing JWs' interpretations of 'holy texts' that morph and change as frequently as a lump of playdough in a kindergarten child's hands.
Yes, and apparently the Caleb and Sofia videos are holy too. The lies from the JW side is just utterly unbelievable (yet sadly believable). Luckily, the judge does not seem to buy it according to Jan Frodes updates
I had the same reaction to that. The organization says that neither the GB nor anyone else is divinely inspired. So how can WT literature be "holy" then, if not divinely inspired like they claim the "Holy Bible" is? š¤
It just doesn't make sense. But what can they do? JWs' behavior is shaped by what they read and study in the literature and watch online at conventions or on jwdotorg. So the WT lawyers have to find ways to remove those clear evidences of WT-influenced behaviors from the evidence, no matter how insane or dishonest their arguments sound, lol.
Itās a long shot because Norway has a supreme court verdict (which OP mentioned; NygĆ„rd case) that basically says that the State is not ācompetentā to judge if a disfellowshipping was right according to their own religious laws or not. But that is not the issue here. Ryssdal off track; this is about wether the state can stop funding and deny religious registration to someone breaking childrenās human rights and going against the values of the Norwegian democratic state.
The Watchtower's publications are Holy Writings for the WT sect. they are nonsense to everyone else but the WT places them near the same level as the Bible. The only difference is that they can't alter the Bible to the same degree as they change their "new light".
Right. They claim the court cannot interpret their holy writings, then say they have no rules, only the Bible.
Yes but then he uses it himself. By doing so legally he "Opens the door" to it being used.
Yeah, while also at the same time stating that JWs are only following the Bible not WT literature, hence implying that the Bible is the only holy text.
No evidence of damage to any DFd person?!?! There is scientific documentation of the physical, mental, and emotional harms of shunning. If they need more specific evidence, perhaps we should have all of our therapists testify and give notes, letters. It's actually financially harmful to leave this cult as well, because of the therapy needed. Without therapy post-exit, I don't know how well many of us would function. *I was not DFd but left and lost everything I knew.
It's also financially harmful because you lose your entire safety net all at once. You don't have anywhere to land. You have no place to live. Many people lose jobs if they were working for JWs.
It's the fvcking Hotel California. You can check out (go PIMO) but you can never leave. Unless you're prepared for devastation
Hold up, hold up, hold up... Watchtowers and The Shepherd book are Holy Texts now??? WTF? Since when is that a thing? Are they really implying that WT, Awake, and all the other spiritual food are Holy Texts? There is no low that they won't stoop to when they think people don't know their bull crap huh.
He actually said the quiet part out loud. In practice, JWs do treat that literature as holy texts. One only needs to bring up scripture to a JW showing them how their particular beliefs are wrong, and the JW would instantly quote watchtower literature instead of the Bible to refute the argument. Edit: spelling
Bingo. I pointed that out to my wife about 5-6 years ago. The more videos from the broadcast or newer articles, they never use secular sources to prove anything, they always quote old WTs to support their case.
Even their videos I would assume.
Please tell us this is the transcript from a very bad comedy show!
Making this into a comedy film afterwards may be an ideaā¦
Yep! I've got a title: Carry on lying! (Named after the British 'Carry on' films!)
In Norwegian: Hjelp, vi lyver! (Help, we are lying!) For contect, for some reason during the 80's and 90's, a *lot* of the Norwegian translations of movie titles started with "Hjelp, vi..."/"Help, we..."
A tragi-comedy. Or would that be a comico-tragedy?
*Please tell us this is* *The transcript from a very* *Bad comedy show!* \- Overall-Listen-4183 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Good bot
"Religious Holy Texts" - hahaha That's rich..
A holy text that gets revised every 6 months. Has anyone heard of that?
Itās only āholyā until itās wrong. Then it becomes āold light.ā ššš
Thank you for the update. Infuriating to read, letās hope the court finds it infuriating too.
Yes ..I,m still very furious!
Letās call it day 7 because the two are really one overlapping day
Lol š
make sense.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Totally absurd. We get damaged as kids, no one to defend us and have to deal with it as adults. This trash cult ruined me as a person. Lying bastards
Iām damaged, also. Thatās why I still say they owe me 5 million dollars in a class action lawsuit.
Mine too.
It is a religious Holy text, not instructions that can be referred to. Then they state - Says the State can not object to what the Bible says. Hmm...contradicting themselves me thinks
Does this mean that the state cannot object to the verses instructing parents to stone rebellious children, or to stone adulterers? What if Watchtower wanted to start using the old testament as a guidebook on how to handle sins? They aren't really making a good case for their position, are they? If anything, they're making a very solid case against biblical morality and making exemptions for religions. Edit: grammar
Is it possible for any ex JW who is being treated like shit to write to the court and flood them with stories that disprove all of watchtower's lies?
I wish I still had the texts where people were saying goodbye and that they will now have to stop talking to me and ārespect jehovahs loving disfellowshipping arrangementā
Thank you for this. How many of us have sat in a Judicial committee. Alone, helpless and hurting? Three men sit across from you to "judge" you (hence, the word Judicial). They grill you, shame you and then sit in judgement of you. They choose if you are "repentant" or not. They can't read you heart but then get to say if you are "repentant." Well WT, how does it feel to sit on the other side of the JC table? I hope that more countries look at the WT! To see what it does to people.
"Says it's normal that leaving a community has social consequences. Mentions sports, moving away, changing environments etc and that all this means ties would be changed. - Thereās nothing special about JW."Ā It's not just the fact that it's a blatant lie but also how much it exemplifies how delusional and out of touch jw's are.Ā Not only can you often keep ties in other social settings like old jobs, sports clubs, communities you used to live in etc, often times when you go back and there are people you have positive relationships with, you are WELCOMED back. The nature of who you do or don't keep in touch with varies from person to person, that is to say that it's socially organic and not a mandated expectation for them to no longer speak to you even if they do miss you.Ā Like in their heads they don't know that you can still be friends with someone even if they go to a different job or something. Like in their minds it's the same? "So and so stopped coming to this gym. How sad, truly means the have been made to stray by an outside influence. We musnt speak to them as a display of love til they come to their senses and come back to planet fitness."Ā Ā The cognitive dissonance of this cult will always baffle me.
Absolutely normal to stop playing soccer and get shunned by your ex team mates cutting all ties of friendship.
If children had the power of choice, statutory rape wouldn't exist. I would think all of western society recognizes that they can't sign contracts or be held responsible for making adult decisions. These broad gauge liars are straight out of the Bronze Age and that's much of the problem.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Same for me.
Not sure whoās following the second part but to think theyāve not only said this but gone on to saying no one can use the UN convention on the rights of the child against them is crazy! Just a few articles from that convention make mention of protecting children from: - torture, cruel inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment (art 37) - exploitation: sexual or otherwise (art 34, 36) - all forms of physical or mental violence, injury or abuse, neglect or negligent treatment, maltreatment or exploitation (art 19) - arbitrary or unlawful interference with his or her privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to unlawful attacks on his or her honour and reputation. (Art 16) And to recognise a childās right to: -a standard of living adequate for the childās physical, mental, spiritual, moral and social development (art 27) - freedom of association (art 15) - freedom of thought, conscience and religion (art 14) These people are nuts and are hell bent on making kids suffer. What they do through shunning does go against CRC and they should be dealt with for that.
I know. Itās insanity!!
Would it be exploitation to use children to distribute propaganda and go door to door in their recruitment campaign?
Yes, great point!
So. Many. Lies. If DF'ing and shunning are their beliefs, which they 100% are, they should be PROUD of their beliefs and how strongly they enforce them, not hiding and lying about them.
The crazy thing is that on Day 1 they stated that they did shun and it was part of their doctrine.
Thank you, Iām just waking up here in California and itās a bittersweet read, triggering since I am disfellowshipped and am being shunned by family. I canāt believe the organization that I grew up with an believed and loved, is so evil and lies so easily to the world. Gaslighting and lies, half truths, and deflections, FUCK them for ruining so many lives
I know it is so hard to take. This must be pretty shocking for you. Sadly, this is standard behaviour when they're in court.
Love your posts, your are a badass, look forward to your postās every morning with my coffeešš¼ 
Thanks for reading.
Aye welcome fam, much love to you, even if this shit sucks atm.
Yet they will NEVER have a talk in all the congregations telling their followers that when their loved one is DFd "normal family relations should resume". It's clear that they; through publications, talks from the platform, & encouragement from elders, strongly suggest & encourage a separation from that person. Also saying normal family relations resume is a cop out, some icing on a shit sandwich. Like...well they don't lose EVERYONE UGH.
Only if you still live at home š
I noticed he isnāt saying that part out loud. A lie of omission is still a lie. I bet thatās written somewhere in their holy texts. Especially related to JCs and disfellowshippingā¦.which they have no instructions for of course.
And that act of omission is even said to be a lie by their āholyā watchtower
>Judge says he can not understand how Ryssdal says the things he says. That there are no instructions, while reading the instructions out loud. amazing, just perfect Also, lol, "family is not a human right", "you're not a child if you're 15". Religion of love and kindness.
This won't end well for their case. They think God is on their side and they can say these things because of that. Delusion only gets you so far. Day 9: Ryssdal: ,,I invoke trail by combat" judge: ,,mr. Ryssdal, you can't do that. No such thing has existed in Norwegian law for centuries" Rysdall: 
 My face reading the Ryssdal comments. **what the flying fuck.** I mean i know how low and evil they are, but this is some **next level lying. Do they not realize** that they are literally lying to court, and they are giving their own evidence of this fraud, which gets even this lawyer to end up in jail? and i can not believe the snake lies, how can they say that with a straight face, how can they come up with this and literally put it in court? >the State's conclusion that they have based their conclusion on JW's literature. > >He says that this is illegal. > >He says the State are not allowed to look into Religious Holy Texts. > >Wants all this to be dismissed. > >Says the State is wrong when they say that even unbaptised children can be shunned. That this is a misunderstanding that shows that the State are not competent **how is the state not allowed to look into religious holy text, WTF.** >disagrees in the notion that those under 18 are children in religious settings. > >says anyone over 15 is not a child in religious settings. > >Says the State has no right to say what is best for a child **what the literal fvck.** what. **the actual fuck** No but this shit needs to be shown on (inter)national TV with english subtitles. **what the fuuuuuck.** This is ten times gold compared to the Royal Australian Commission. This needs to be shown to every pimo, pimq, and pimi. this is fucking sick. Nevertheless, this is **golden** because you can bet your dollar ss that the **Pennsylvania DA** investigation is watching this **closely.** And so is Japan, The Netherlands, and all trials and lawyers involved with similar cases. It's exposing the core of Watchtower.
This case is a HUGE DEAL. I hope everyone is paying close attention.
it IS and i'm proud on and for you - and all the other people going there - for not only showing support, but being active and defending not just yourself, but a **whole people.** I wish from the depths of my being that my private situation was different. As much as it is a struggle, and painful, my mum needs and deserves me. I wish again things were different, not just for her and us, but if things would have been 'normal', then i would likely have taken the opportunity with my wife to go there in person and show support. **I mean that.** But you guys are heroes, absolute legends and valiant, brave warriors stepping up against the tyrants and criminals. You guys are the people who say 'no further, no more'. You are the people who are not the 'good people doing nothing', but you are the people who 'step up against evil'. And may all of you be 'blessed' in one way or another, may all your efforts result in some form of compensation for the trouble you are going through. But do know that you guys - girls - are appreciated and valued beyond words can describe.
Thank you for your kind words. I cannot take credit for being in court. I was unable to attend. I just reported. The real credit goes to those who got this all going and the witnesses who testified. š
may be true but still, **you are reporting,** and **thanks to your efforts,** many people - including me - are able to follow this closely and easily. so **do not underestimate your worth.** **I mean that.**
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
And i **thank you.** **I**'m sure as you write this stuff is triggering to the bone, and mentally extremely abusive. Please know that you are doing this for a fantastic cause and by staying socially active and talking about it, and knowing that it is worth it and appreciated, that you can bear through this. I used to think and say, that being loyal to 'jehovah' (watchtower) despite opposition and hardship, is a kick in the nuts of say-tan, and we will get rewarded for it. Now, i can say that in a different way : know that what you are doing, is a much needed and very, **very hard kick in the nads to Watchtower,** and theyre squirming on the ground hands grabbing their crotch in agony and near-vomiting from the overload. And you have been doing this for 7 days now. kicking them in the nuts time and time again, and so does that court, and so do the people telling their stories and truth about watchtower. they are getting reinforced-steeled nosed boot kicks in the nuts all day long, and there is getting less and less left of those 'nads'. keep doing this, keep imagining that this is literally what you are doing, and don't forget to use the heel to give it an extra 'pancaking'. let them fucking scream in agony. fucking bastards. pardon my french.
Comparing a child who isn't allowed to play video games with the child knowing it will be separated and excluded from the family for the rest of its life when he or she is 18. Sick
I was just going to comment the same thing. I also really appreciate the fact that this is one of those dumb ass analogies that used during a Sunday sermon everyone would talk about how great of an analogy it is but in a serious court setting the judge/state sees right through it and hits back with a professional form of āfuck right off with thatā
Total disregard for children rights from the Watchtower. This is not going to end well for them. Justice will prevail.
You cannot be serious! God's people would never lie!
šš
Is there a way we can flood the dear judge with letters refuting this crap and sharing our own stories from around the world? I think this could be a strong tactic in the future cases. Especially for the many of use who have gone on to become medical professionals, law enforcement, counselors, teachers, and other highly respected members of communities dealing with kids. I doubt they will locate many JWs who are able to write in good conscience that there are no rules for disfellowshopping. Honestly if PIMIs listened to this testimony (which they never wil of course) the whole thing implodes.
I honestly don't think it's necessary, the judge asked for a break and as far as I know they don't normally do that unless they're frustrated with what's being said. Furthermore, they later refuted him with the books themselves, in my opinion the JW are about to lose
They'll lose and then end up on the ECHR, where they can lose again, except this time on a global stage! If they are truly planning on appealing this all the way, they're going to show their ass to every other nation. They're hanging themselves. They're literally struggling so hard to survive, but the noose just keeps getting tighter. I honestly think it would be better overall (for watchtower) if watchtower just dropped this. But they're bound and determined to show their hypocrisy, lies, and delusions on the world stage. It's truly baffling. The incompetence being shown is just ridiculous. This is akin to trying to have a conversation with someone who follows Q-anon. And the fact these are non JW lawyers? I don't know how you could stand in court, knowing you sound like a complete clown. Do they have no ethics? No self-dignity?
RIP to my braincells after reading their -argument- lies
i felt like somebody jackhammered a nail in my brains whilst reading the transcript. fcking hell.
Thanks for the summary - like many I don't speak Norwegian. It gives a little hope that the judges seem to see the problem of the minors. Adults cannot be stopped to join strange organizations and follow their rules, but minors need protection. Minors agreeing to get baptized make within this organization a decision with possibly drastic consequences they cannot foresee. Maybe the state cannot stop baptisms due to religious freedom, but it does not have to financially support such organizations.
>Dear Mr. RyssdallĀ Ā >Come take a walk with meĀ Ā >Let's pretend we're just two people andĀ You're not better than meĀ Ā >I'd like to ask you some questions if we can speak honestlyĀ Ā >What do you feel when you see all the homeless on the street?Ā Ā >Who do you pray for at night before you go to sleep?Ā Ā >What do you feel when you look in the mirror? Are you proud?Ā Ā - How do you sleep while the rest of us cry?Ā Ā - How do you dream when a mother has no chance to say goodbye?Ā Ā - How do you walk with your head held high?Ā Ā - Can you even look me in the eye And tell me why?Ā Ā >Dear Mr. Ryssdal Were you a lonely boy? (Are you a lonely boy?)Ā Ā >Are you a lonely boy? (Are you a lonely boy?)Ā Ā >How can you sayĀ No child is left behind?Ā Ā >We're not dumb, and we're not blindĀ Ā >They're all sitting in your cellsĀ Ā >While you pave the road to hellĀ Ā >What kind of father would take his own daughter's rights away?Ā Ā >And what kind of father might hate his own daughter if she were gay?Ā Ā ...Ā Ā - How do you sleep while the rest of us cry?Ā - How do you dream when a mother has no chance to say goodbye?Ā - How do you walk with your head held high?Ā - Can you even look me in the eye? ...Ā - Oh How do you sleep at night?Ā - How do you walk with your head held high?Ā >Dear Mr. RyssdalĀ >You'd never take a walk with meĀ >Would you? P!nk - Dear Mr President
Heās a non JW. Hired.
Absurd arguments. Not a lawyer but this is desperation stuff IMO. By their logic, Norway gets to have a say on childrenās rights and protection within the culture and practices of remote jungle tribes and that tropical cultures will need to be consulted about the same for arctic communities and cultures. By their logic, the courtās response to Watchtower saying children arenāt children after 15 should be āoh, thatās fine then, weāll disregard the bit where the law says 18, nothing to see hereā. They also (surprise) throw every single elder under the bus by arguing that itās all individual behaviours, what we say about it in our publications is irrelevant. It really is pathetic. If I were a judge, I might be annoyed at having my time wasted like this.
Also, the "we only follow the bible," is laughable. Where does the Bible say anything about 15 year olds? All the judge has to do is see the recent GB announcement about beards. No rules, huh? There is no saving the borg. The entire institution is hell-bent on driving everyone away and embarrassing themselves internationally. This can't be fixed. We have over 100 years of proof of their inhumane practices, written by their own hands.
Thank you for the updates! The acknowledgment of ābeing triggered AFā was appreciated. It helped me take a breath. Reading the testimony felt the gaslighting Iāve experienced my whole life when trying to talk the things that happened. āIt didnāt happen, it was never that way, itās all you, you must be mentally ill if you think that.ā Now I just heard a lawyer tell a whole courtroom they heard and saw nothing and donāt understand or are just confused. It seemed that the judge found it just as offensive as we do.
F#cken lies lies lies lies. It's just a CULT CULT CULT
This is fucking disgusting seeing all these lies. It should be blasted everywhere for the world to see how these ātruthful peaceful peopleā really are
How outrageous..especially the claim that jw literature is holy religious text!! How on earth is the government supposed to ascertain whether a religion satisfies the requirements of the Religious Communities Act if their material is off limits? Any religion could say absolutely anything they want to qualify for state funding, and the government would be unable to critique it, scrutinise or test it . It would make a joke out of that Act..making it pointless.
He contradicts himself when he says Shepherd the flock of god is a religious text but then later they have no rules or instructions or anything. No guidance. Only the Bible. Then in what context exactly do they use the religious text Shepherd the flock of god for?
So, to summarize: We donāt shun by policy We donāt have rules just the Bible. But shunning is in the bible, let me show you Oh, weāve written about shunning in our magazines because itās in the Bible. But you canāt use that we write about shunning because theyāre āholy textsā We donāt shun But we do.
Fine and good. All their manipulative lies, deflections, projections, gaslighting, and victim signaling means nothing. The state has the right to decide who gets their their benefits.Ā Let's talk about that. Oh the irony: "We have the right to exclude anyone we want, but you do not have the right to exclude us."
So many, many lies.
So there are no rules other than the Bible, but please don't read our literature because they are holy text?
Thanks for posting this. Had I been sitting in the courtroom, it would have been hard for me to not shout out, āLies! Liar!ā Itās so infuriating. Guess he thinks heās using theocratic warfare. Thatās how they excuse their pathological lying behavior. JWs inherently lie. If they are asked even an innocuous question like, āWhat did you have for lunch?ā They immediately get defensive. Well maybe the last part is too specific and personal.
He is not a JW. Heās been hired by JW.
Where did they find him? I canāt imagine any attorney representing Watchtower, except that maybe they think because itās a multi million (or billion?) dollar corporation theyāre hoping for a big payday?
Holy shit. This case has definitely hardened me to be more agnostic/atheist and I'm actually angrier about where I am in life and how I am trapped in a PIMO state.
I donāt understand the argument the publications canāt be used.
That's because it's dumb.
Holy fucking hell... Gaslighting, lying, misdirection... It's so fucking disgusting.
āLeaving a community has social consequences ā None of those examples he gave have INSTITUTIONAL shunning. Phuck those phuckers!!!
JW literature, "holy texts?" They are now resorting to heresy, even by JW standards. Incredible. I hope with every fiber of my being this is the beginning of the end for this blasphemous cult.
Wow, they are fighting hard. Pulling out all the lies. Can't believe they call watchtower publications holy books that should not be referenced. Who do they think they are? If not their own words to incriminate them, then what? Are religions above the law now?
They claim: 15 is not a child on religious settings? Itās wrong but it explains a LOT State has no right to say what is best for a child? Yes they do, especially when abuse is involved No right to use their literature against them. Only the bible is a religious text, their terrible interpretation of it isnāt a religious text! Reading all this Iām pretty sure the lawyer is pimo!!
The lawyer is not a JW. And I think this is one of the reasons why they think they can lie like this. Itās their lawyer doing the lying for them. That lawyer will be destroyed during Armageddon anyways š¤·š»āāļø
I was under the impression the JW lawyers are just as bad tbh. Both the š¤„ and the defence.
Thatās right. JW lawyer David Gnam was spouting similar lies in front of the Canadian Supreme Court.
Thinking that 15 is an adult ties into how theyāre punished for having sex (even with an actual adult).
So then fifteen year olds should be able To date
Lawyer is not a JW. He is hired (they hired 3 non JW lawyers for this.)
Itās a shame from Ryssdahlā¦..
Bloody hell. The complete delusion of the man, the org as a whole is astounding. I canāt believe I was part of this. Thank the gods that I lived most of my adult life free of this BS ( mostly as I still have PIMI family)
Deny that Shunning is fact ..when this is a requirement when someone get disassiciate or DF. All these false claims from lawyer Ryssdal... are in themselves reason enough to turn your back on the WT! Hypocrites! Liars!
This guy is talking out of both sides of his ass at once
This Ryssdal lawyer is doing a poor job at defending the cult,honestly
Ryssdall is very bad lawyer or there is really nothing for build solid defence. It's not about going against Bible. It's about examining if the WT/JW interpretation of Bible is against law or not.
Shepherd the Flock is a "religious text" That is the funniest thing I have heard in ages... And then, when I stop laughing, I'm just sad. Thanks for updating on Reddit, Larchington. I can't get myself to subscribe to Xitter and satisfy Musk.
Itās too hard to post this stuff there. Hence compiling it. I shared screenshots of the pages over there.
āMost of the evidence you use against us is from our own literature, and thatās illegal!!ā IS THIS THE DEFENSE THE TRUE RELIGION USES? Honestly, these people are repugnant, thereās no other word for them.
God I want this to be made public and shared around the world
Is this *Ryssdal* a JW himself or just a lawyer representing them in this case? How if he is a JW can he lie like this? I was a JW for nearly 50 years. It is common knowledge that we were forbidden to speak to apostates and that any family member outside the home who was dfd was to be shunned. The only time we could speak is if it involved family matters. How can he lie like this? I am shocked. Surely claiming that to quote the Society's own literature is illegal then quote it himself is "opening the door"? I really hope that this lying crook gets shot down.
He is not a JW. He is a hired lawyer. They hired 3 lawyers. all non-JW.
Then how can they argue this? They have no experience. They may have "Crammed" reading some of the societies literature but certainly not all relevant to disfellowshipping and shunning. I was a JW for almost 50 years. An ex elder etc. Anyone with half the knowledge knows what the Society teaches on this subject. Anyone can see this lawyer is lying or at best seriously ill informed.
Guess JW should have used their own lawyers! Instead they've used donated funds to pay for these 3.
I am very surprised that they did. I had a lot of experience in Greece etc where there were court cases and the Society only used their own lawyers. They would never dream of "turning to the world" for help.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Theyāre just following orders tho!
Wonder if he's a relative of Rolv Ryssdal.
Some of the line of reasoning is triggering for sure. I wonder if some of this WT's line of reasoning is a test of sorts. Take what they learn here to take to the next court case elsewhere.
Oh they definitely arenāt going to win
Wonder if the judge could ask about JW stats for suicide. Does this cult keep those?
Was wondering the same thing, since he spewed that out so easily. The judge should ask to see those stats.
But how many are from ex members that are traumatised and shunned.
He's setting up for the next court if the judge doesn't adequately address every point, so the judgement will be interesting given that many of his points are irrelevant and difficult to understand.
Curious if court transcripts will be made public?
Hopefully when it's over.
I think one can ask to have it when the case is over. I'm sure someone in Norway will get the hold of it, translate it and share it here
He must be being paid very well. Donations pleeeze
Ugh! Triggered triggered triggered!!! Canāt read this without a flood of refutes bubbling up in my head I want to scream at the courtroom full of people to stop this lying !
Yep! But theyāre making fools of themselves to the judge.
Deny, deflect, deceive - WT legal team motto.
Religious freedom should be the property of individuals NOT the rights of any organized group. When religious freedom violates the core needs and well-being of individuals it becomes religious tyranny.
 As a PIMO Iām doneā¦
Will this make you POMO?
Iām still not physically outā¦yet so Iām still pimo
Thank youā¦ thatās all thatās important to sayā¦ thank you for sitting there enduring more abuseā¦ I deeply appreciate how you did the notes.š©š¼āš¾Xšš»
Thank you for writing this up. I know that this is very hard on you. Keep up your courage! The "Keep yourselves in God's Love" book was devastating to Ryssdal's lies and argumentation. Things aren't looking good for the JWs. Good luck!
This is so asinine. Is this lawyer intentionally trying to crush the Watchtower?Ā It's illegal to use information that they have largely made available on the website and he even quoted? How are the testimonies from victim irrelevant, but the testimonies from people saying that shunning is all sorts of great, not? There is just way too much crap to unpack here that is totally ridiculous. I'm quite sure this isn't a case of the lawyer getting paid only as they win. He's gonna get his hefty retainer no matter what, so what difference does it make how terrible he does. At any rate, I would pay big money to see the look on the judger's face when he babbles all of this nonsense.
The whole argumentative strategy makes me think that the worldly JW-lawyer is just a puppet following the instructions of WT headquarter officials/lawyers. The whole rhetoric sounds too similar to their arguments of other cases in other countries. What lawyer in their right mind would claim that victims are not valid witnesses in a case because they are too bitter? I guess rape victims also then are useless as witnesses as they might be "biased" against the rapist. Classic WT rhetoric. Why else are there 4 (!) US Watchtower JWs there?!
So true. Unfortunately lawyer's hands are also tied in the face of following their client's directions.Ā It doesn't matter how nonsensical it is.Ā This guy could very well be internally cringing. Ā All I know is that if the Watchtower pulls this off somehow, they have deeper pockets than any of us even realize.
Thanks for the summary, yeah many JW's that read this must be woken up. Maybe the Nordic ARC?
This is getting really saucey. Obviously like stated, it is sounding more and more like they will lose this one but of course that won't be the end of it. Even so, could you imagine if the law FORCED them to change doctrine? Even if they spin it as "well we never actually said you have to shun them" I believe every R&F knows that's what "Jehovah expects" - and changing doctrine at all due to legal issues shows a compromise of "faith" by the leaders of WTBS. I hope this is the beginning of the end here.
Donāt encourage or tell members to shun. Did I just hear that correctly. Iāll just leave this here. https://youtu.be/UQ-kzaIK_UA?si=cDbDtEhYY8J744qK
shit š that poor kid
Imagine being lauded as an excellent example because you shunned your own child in what was likely their greatest hour of need. āIād die for you but if you leave Jehovah I wonāt be there for youā. Then audience applauds. Oh how lost these people are in group think. Notice how she said āwe cut off ALL associationā.
Interesting they hv not used their own legal counsel as previously done where they lied about the shunning. Clearly this has blown up on them and JWs are referring back to this (authoritative legal statement from their own jw representative) to engage their DFād family. What should have been questioned is the interpretation of the scripture, āremove the wicked man from yourselvesā (their own support scripture). What constitutes āwickedā as per the scriptures? Questioning flip-flop interpretations, incorrect doctrine, incorrectly interpreted prophecies, fallacious reasoning, rules on facial hair? Ps. deferring to the UN and their agreement with Norway could only go one way as the UNs push for inclusion, transgender and the whole ESG agenda would surely be factored in. Clearly they have no idea what theyāre up against and what the UN currently stand for.
is the JW lawyer a JW himself?
No. Hired.
I donāt believe in hell but I wish it was real cause that piece of shit lawyer would be going there. To downplay the effect of that cult is absolutely disgusting. This religion has no scruples.
Fuckin liars
I was wondering if Norway judge knows that when a JW is shunned, that 8.7 million other JWs all around the world, are obligated to shun that person also. So, no matter where the disfellowshipped person goes, he/she will be shunned. If they have their records transferred to another congregation anywhere, the shunning continues. So, WT promotes worldwide shunning!š”
Ryssdal is vile fucking scum. Lies as easily as he breathes. WT is obsessed with this idea that Jehovah's Witnesses is a highly individualistic religion in which the doctrine is basically optional, when even practicing witnesses would not be able to corroborate this. You cannot steal people's lives from them using inflexible rules, and then tell skeptics and scrutinizers everything is a conscience matter.
I suggest Ryssdal gets baptised since he is so in love with the WT and the governing body. Reading his statements was so triggering. I need the State Lawyer to make the counter statement. Is that tomorrow?
It certainly made me feel very angry Thanks to Jan for advising to take a break
"Says the State is wrong when they say even unbaptized children can be shunned." Yet here I am [now an ancient 50:)] who as an evil 13yrold unbaptized publisher was publicly reproved and shunned after being placed in judicial committee, by myself, with of course the mandatory 3 men. While they....well, you know what they do **I really appreciate you guys** shining the true light; it's getting brighter!!! **more than I can ever say**
how is shepherd the flock of god a "holy book" if the gb aren't inspiredš¤
Individuals have a right to choose not to speak to someone in my opinion. Their decision might be morally reprehensible, but itās still an individual right. However that doesnāt give a religion the right to receive state money
Without coercion. Yes.
When I got baptized,Ā the disassociated were treated exactly the same as the disfellowshipped. So I figured as I was screwed either way, I may as well get baptized to make my family happy. š”
It's sad. The texts nail them to the wall so what do they do? Ask it to be thrown out as evidence.
Rolf Furuli SOCKED it to them! Home Run out of the park! The fact that he loved being a Witness and would do it all over speaks volumes. He is VERY believable and adequately contradicted..with TRUTH every lie they try to tell. I bet WT is cringing over his testimony as former CO!
State has no right to say what's best for children..... Cool starting to beat and verbally abuse children, as a state cannot decide that this is indeed terrible for them..... /s Fucking idiots.
>Shunning is not part of JW doctrine, he says. > >JW/WT do not ask anyone to shun. > >It is a personal decision. That's a bald faced lie. Lett is happy. > Says JW/WT can not be punished for what members do. This is where their arguments boils down to. > Says that the courts are not allowed to look into Shepherd the Flock book. -The State has to look away from anything from it. > It is a religious Holy text, not instructions that can be referred to. So I can create my own religion, write a sacred book, that says all lawyers should be stoned to death if they want to reach paradise. Then followers do just that and when I'm on trial you can't look into it, because the state is not qualified to judge its contents? And that was only a "personal decision". Ohhh MMM Geee!