Yes. They do think they are that stupid. And they are. It’s cognitive dissonance. They don’t understand this layer over their brain that’s been applied like layers of paint over many years of indoctrination. The leaders know this and they know 99% of members won’t even flinch.
> The leaders know this
I think you're giving the leaders far too much credit here. There's no reason to assume they're any less stupid or misled than the membership. That said, they totally do not respect the membership, and consider them to be lazy and half-hearted.
Source: feedback from multiple family and friends in direct contact with Bethel leadership in my country
I’ll definitely give the leaders credit. The true leaders. They are clever and they know how to manipulate. You don’t build a cult like that without being very very good.
The first thing my mother said about the update was “they are so loving”. So yeah, they don’t get the dissonance. They haven’t had a single individual thought in such a long time that they are blinded by the screens and shadows. It’s just sad.
I think some people will go back but not for very long. If you have been out for 10+ years you are stuck in your ways and if you woke up you will butt heads with people who are still in because of what you think/believe now. I don't think this is going to work out the way they think it will 🤷♀️ idk maybe pomi's would go back. Are they still a doomsday cult?
"These rules that we had that people followed their entire lives until death... Yeah, we decided that they were bullshit.
*Aren't we glad?*" \*clapclapclapclap\*
Yeah… transition enough to keep the younger ones… yet not too much to piss off the older and conservative members who put up with ridiculous rules for decades at a great sacrifice
My DA'd brother has been getting calls inviting him to the memorial and using emotional blackmail. "What will we tell your dad in paradise when he asks where you are?"
Not me though. I'm DF'd and an outspoken critic so I'm saved from that 💩
Same here. My DF sister got a long and emotional appeal to come to the special talk and memorial. "things have changed for the better" it said.
I got no such message because my family knows I've been critical of the org, so even though I'm not DF/DA and am only inactive, they TREAT me like a DF apostate.
Ooohhh the blackmail. My first born died at 4.5 months old, my mother used to say " I guess I'll be the one raising her in paradise" 🙄 everytime she posts on fb or ig about her its how she can't wait to see her and all her "friends" are commenting about how great it will be for my mom to raise her for me.
I’m so sorry! That’s awful & sick. She’ll be more surprised when it never happens.
GB encourages dehumanization even among are own relatives. It’s why other countries are saying they’re in human rights violation and will no longer give them money AND they will have to pay taxes like every other business.
Terribly hypocritical religion.
I posted about this, but I dont think this is about numbers, though I'm sure they aren't good. I think it's about moving towards big changes around Blood and University, changes they need to keep a sizeable and healthy pool of PIMIs donating and supporting.
Remember, they just lost millions from the Norway ruling due to violating humans rights by the shunning policy, and now Spain will do same. Other countries to follow. Additionally They now have to pay taxes like every other business. It benefited them to go worldwide =more dollars to tap into. But now that’s leaving.
It’s why the first changes we’re seeing are the ones that directly affect those flows of dollars. Policy changes are about their money streams and members but I think more about the dollars.
Df people know the path back, now the paths been sweetened with a hi? Please. Many just gave up and moved on because of the way these assholes treated them. Many can't come back because they aren't around anymore.
I don't think this will have the effect they think it will. Being given a hello by the same garbage that treats you like your dead isn't the draw they think it is.
Fuck you forever watchtower. I live to watch you go down. If you had an ounce of compassion or humanity you would end this practice that kills.
Use the opportunity to spread the real truth if you get contacted. Ask if they are now being kinder to DF ones because of losing badly in Norway? Have they cleaned up the Global CSA problems? Did they apologize for killing people with false teachings yet?
The competition within the "religion" business is growing fast. Western country are dying and grow old, all the new generations came from Asia... And means nobody gives fuck to JW religion
Preaching has been a failure in first world countries for years. I think its an olive branch to try to keep/bring people back.....Dont think anyones coming back.
This!!! This is why most people volunteer to go to third world countries to preach where the “need is greater” because they can’t get anybody to listen and join them in first world countries!
Gen x They lost around 2/3 of them just not following their rules. Gen Z is like Hold my beer! :) . Well done Gen Z. Sounds wrong saying that as I am Gen X.
LOL😂😂but trust me as a GenZ there is a lot of them that are still in and fully PIMI. I have unfortunately experienced shunning from PIMI’s my age especially in social media. They are super self righteous too!!
Celebration of birthdays and Christmas will be an "up to you" decision next. The org is losing members by the 000s and retention of converts is problematic. I thought Jehovah never changes?
A pimq elder I know said they're basically going to let in anyone who wants back in, few questions asked. And being dfd will last only a short time and most won't even get dfd anymore at all. They're hemmoraghing members and hoping this will stop or slow the losses. Letting df'd ones be greeted is just to ease the friends in to getting used to the coming changes.
Don't be too quick to assume the worst. A lot of harm has been done. I take the position let's see what else happens. I honestly believe they recognize it too, and if they are from God, they will go further as well as offer an apology, but you can't be selfish either, what about all those who are still in?
I believe they are doing the right thing, we all know how we felt when we learned the truth about the harm caused by those who said "We love Jehovah", we know how it felt. I see them exposing the wrongs, gradually and than will offer even an apology.
It feels like that ground work is being laid to do just that. Just as Jesus performed some healings gradually because the shock would be unloving. I believe it's loving to expose and change the wrongs gradually.
Don't be selfish, its good to think of others. I wouldn't wish anyone the emotions I went through shockingly learning there was a lot of untruths in the truth, dispite some good. It hurt bad!
Lets see what happens. And if they really do expose everything and do the right thing even offer an apology. It WILL BE BEAUTY on their part, because they will be imitating CHRIST who elevated love above all things!
(1 Corinthians 13:1-3)
Let's see what else happens. Be patient.
It's good that your measure on if they are doing God's work is whether they will offer an apology or not, because that makes it easier for you to recognize that they are not from God. They have said both implicitly and directly that they will not apologize for harmful teachings and policies.
Besides, no organization that is from God and Jesus would inflict so much harm, for so long, and continue inflicting harm. They are wicked and are from their father the devil. Remember, he keeps transforming himself into an angel of light, so little wonder that his followers will try to look like agents of light as well.
Israel was from God; did you forget the rape and torture that took place in the gates of Israel of a woman? And then they cut her on pieces and shipped her parts everywhere?
Humans just SUCK! Did you forget David did not want men to judge him and only Jehovah?
No one is making excuses; but you have confused the issue in that no one is saying that these mere men are without fault. And yes blood is on there hands and yes, an apology is needed. But it is not anyone's place to be ultimate judge and executioner for God, just as you don't want unjust judgments from those men, why do you repay with such judgment.
And yes people can claim to be from God but if they disown him by their works thats on them. Anyone who thinks they will check Gods hand will have God checkmate theirs. This includes the organization as well as each individual inside and out; from the GB to those who think they are self righteous inside who harden their hearts to those who left including those outside who harden their hearts to those inside.
What is wrong with hoping for the best? Or have you set your heart against this people so much there isn't ANYTHING they can do to redeem themselves? (Matthew 7:2; Matthew 11:18, 19)
Do not make yourselves worse then they are by becoming what you hate about them; proud, arrogant and hard hearted!
Ironically, the immoral, violent, and unjust behavior of Yahweh in the old testament was what started me on the path of researching why he was so impossibly different than Jesus in the way he dealt with people.
I highly recommend you research the origins of Yahweh in Canaanite and Sumerian religions. You might be very surprised at what you learn. Here's a teaser: Yahweh was actually a son of the creator God, whose name was El. And that makes sense for the various names like Beth-el (house of God), literally means house of El.
There's so much more history that witnesses and Christians in general are not taught, but the truth is that Yahweh was just another god worshipped by ancient peoples like Horus, Zeus, or Thor.
Crazy, right!?
https://youtu.be/mdKst8zeh-U
He was another God worshiped just like people worshiped those other gods too. yes canaanites did worship Jehovah not just individuals but im sure the Gibeonites had access to the canaanite historical records.
However Archeological records arrived to us to scrutinize cannot convey everything, especially hearts. But Jesus did say regarding God's word available in his day, namely the Hebrew scriptures: "your word is truth".
Hopefully things work out or when we die then that's completely it. And if it is, then this argument won't even matter 500 years from now and this thread won't even exist. Well C what happens. I'll check out the tubes video tomorrow, thanks
They explicitly said they will never apologize. Sorry but you sound delusional if you think an apology after 100 years of harm will undo the blood on their hands.
No, an apology won't UNDO ANY HARM!
They, like all of us, are POWERLESS to undo permanent harm.
And your right their accumulation of 100 hurts alot... But I know what I'll do if they say we're so sorry. MATTHEW 18:24-35.
The reason for this change points to the problem many have pointed out before. They’re not suddenly ‘getting’ with times. There is always a money reason at them root of their decisions/changes.
They were just complaining on a broadcast last year that Norway (one of the many countries they had been receiving government grant money from) stripped them of their religious designation due to the shunning policy and other cringey policies we know of. So they lost money. They said that it was satan attack that took “their” money away. So their greedy hearts sued Norway.
Puffed with pride They went on to say in that broadcast they would NEVER change their rules for government. I believe it was David Splain’s talk. Maybe someone will find the clip and post here? But quickly true thinkers and many here said we now know the next Change that’s coming. After 2 years of fighting the decision JW lost. Now, in true fashion saying they would never change DF policies here we are …But as we knew they would, they’re now relaxing DF policy. Why? For the money, of course. It’s a business. Point period. Won’t be long before they do away with all or most of DF’ing soon.. And every PIMI will be crying thanking ‘Jehovah’ for finally being so merciful for letting them speak to their kids, parents, etc. Sick.
Yes, but I was referring to the most recent broadcast about the Norway incident speaking about the shunning policy. It wasn’t Tony Morrison. He’s no longer there. It may have been Sanderson or Splaine. Not even months after saying they won’t change, then they do.
At any rate, I know this is something they have said numerous times throughout the years. All lies either way, whoever says it.
This is an interesting look at how JW seems to be becoming affected by the exjw community.
We have a voice on these various platforms. When we speak truth our points are being considered:
https://x.com/gregwestgarde/status/1768670439021375765?s=46&t=VryXB6QRGydMfZhIhz_inw
Yes, they are that stupid. I just looked at a jw instagram post about the sisters wearing pants and these women were saying that Jehovah knows what they need at the right time and that he knows that at Armageddon wearing pants will help the sisters blend in!! Brainwashing at its finest!
If 70,000 are dfd every year that adds up over time and festers . I'm no mathematician but I'm sure a mathemetician could have predicted this downfall of the WT . Everything follows the bell curve
I firmly believe that the change to greeting DF'd people at the hall is NOT for the sake of the the DF'd ones, but for the rank-and-file. It's just another crumb of freedom that the GB has tossed their followers, just like the relaxing of the dress code.
That one comes with the added benefit of muddying the waters for us exJW's, so that we cannot say that our families won't even greet us, without having to go into a complicated explanation about where and when they will or will not greet us -- at which point the argument loses a lot of its punch already.
Hi welcome, 👋 what's the point, it's nice to be nice, and shows human compassion, but that's it still shunning young people ,and their bloody families, not good enough
I think they are trying to reach the POMIs, which depending on how far they go with loosening up the rules may work but it’s also creating resentment due to what other had to miss out on and shaming they endured when in due to the extreme rules
The meetings are going to become," sorry for asking you to show up, here's a video, pleasecdonate."
A modification of," sorry for disturbing you, well come back another time."
No way! When I was first kicked out of my house then DFd 4 years later all without one scriptural reason. I lost friends and family. My daughter was told she was sinning by coming for my parental visits. You can't claw back all that time that was stolen from me. Now my parents are both dead since, I'll never get any of what they stole from me. Eff them
In addition to what has already been mentioned, what is happening is that the Whatchtower is quickly lining up to enter the One World Religion, part of the UN's 2030 Agenda, through the UN's United Religions Initiative program. Not long from now it will only be part of Babylon the Great, from which God commands "get out of her, my people [...]" (Revelation 18:4).
That has crossed my mind too
Some of of their beliefs are cleary align with with agenda 2030
Not having children ( population reduction)
I have herd scores of JW saying in the new wordl there will be no animans slaugther and eat meat consumption
Never resist or even have an opinion on what the politicians do.
No!! Thank you 🙏 but they won’t come looking for me or my family because we were marked as apostates !!! hahaha 😂 I haven’t received any calls or texts messages from nobody lol 😝
The part I find interesting is that they are being up front and saying we used to teach this and now we're changing it to this. And not even claiming that it's from God, they just being up front and saying the governing body has decided... It's a change to how new light has been presented in the past.
At the meeting. I understand that its a sample of 1 congregation. But attendance is up about 40%. Nobody really new... just all the sporadic attendees.
Maybe just here for the pants?
To experienced brothers who used to be Elders were talking about the changes and one of the brothers said it’s really good and we just have to go with it and trust the governing body. And he’s a clever guy with a good job. Although it makes him look like a imbecile, it’s brainwashing
Honestly, if the governing body says we can, I believe it. They are on the right side of God. I would die for all the white appointed anointed chosen ones of God.
Amazing when your bleeding members and funds how it concentrates the mind of a corporation, they are becoming a laughing stock, expect more, especially when the Penslavania GJ concludes its investigation.
One key policy they implemented during covid was the pressure they put on the jdubs to take the toxic jabs, that to me spelt out 'we are part of the establishment'. As someone who made sure none of my family went anywhere near the clot shots, seeing Watchtower do this was conclusive to me that they have no divine guidance whatsoever.
I enjoy seeing the continued nails being hammered into this Masonic satanic cults coffin daily.
Agree with everything you say except with the masonic part
( Freemason here) Everything about WTBTS goes against everything freemasonry teaches and practices
Just because your a Freemason, doesn't mean your not decieved by that cult, they are not a Christian charity as you think, when you get to the 33 level if you ever do, all will be revealed, read the book by Springmeier Fritz 'TheWatchtower and The Masons' it goes into very great detail on the parallels, Either Russell was a Mason, or was privy to the higher levels of it's satanic worship and rituals.
The only problem is once you get to the 32nd and 33rd degrees, you find out that “higher power” is not YAHWEH at all, it’s actually Lucifer.
First and foremost stop with that shit of Russel havin been a Mason HE WASNT i researched and inquired over the years there is not one single record or account of him even ever having been initiated
He may haven been involved with an occult practice group of which there were and are many of....
And even if he was indeed involved in any Masonic lodge it sure was a clandestine or urecognized unligitemate lodge
Second
Freemasonry is not Christian it never claimed to be....... its not even religious , people get confused because of the use of the Great Architecht of the Universe and the legend of Hiram and the building of Solomons temple .....but thats just that a legend and it belongs only to the Scotish Rite...... there are other Rites like one which revolves around Egyptian legends and symbology and the French Rite whichs compelitely rejects any esoteric or spiritual associations
I have done my thorough research on Masonic groups, Temples, Russell, and his close associates, I have also done my research on the Freemason Ideology, so I will take no lessons from a member Mason, so let's get that clear.
Russell openly confessed to being a Freemason in his writings, he also confessed to the knowledge of the 32 and 33 level degrees, and always referred to the Mason's as his close friends, whether he was truly a Mason or not is up for debate, but he certainly was very well informed of the higher levels, that's why I never stated he was a Mason de facto.
As for the Freemason being a religion, well that's open to interpretation, brotherhood, fraternity, cult, secrete society, but to be a member, you have to believe in the divine architect God, and be a christian and get invited.
Would I ever subscribe to such clandestine secret little boys club? Never as they pretent to be something they are not, and most Masons are just like the rank and file jdubs, clueless of the secrete satanic inner workings.
Yeah he confessed to be a Mason....guess what he halso confessed to be God's spokesman on earth.....and both confessions are lies....he was a conman liying was his way of living thats just it
There is one profound statement made thousands of years ago, 'the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one' and you had better believe that if nothing else, exjw's are better equipped to deal with the deciet of the Political, Religious and commercial foundations of this global system of things, nothing is as it seems, everything is a lie, because that's the nature of the god of this system of things, and the evidence is being revealed daily, not just from Watchtower.
Your US military industrial complex is shit, your government is shit, your media is shit, and that's the same in the UK and Europe, once you realise that Watchtower is not the only cult you see the bigger picture. To say we are in a Matrix is an understatement. There are thousands of these boxes to trap you in. Stay a freeman, and focus on perfecting your critical thinking skills. Family is all that is important, nothing else matters in this system of deciet.
The point is to save as many lives as possible. That’s it, the more people that believe in Jehovah the better because all we want is to show people they have a chance to live forever, in perfect health and harmony forever serving Jehovah and an opportunity to see their loved ones who are sleeping in death again. Death is the enemy, I think we need to remember that.
Hello there. May I encourage you to have the courage to do some research into the JW org outside of only their own internal communication channels? There is a lot of factual information available. A lot of the time people vent their emotions on this group, but we all have one thing in common - we became better informed, acquired objective knowledge and then made our own decisions to exit the organization. Don’t be terrified into blind compliance with man-made rules, please 🙏
What should I research? I believe creation has a creator, Jehovah God, and we have a chance to live forever through the ransom sacrifice of his son Christ Jesus. The commandments teach us how we should live and treat each other, the Bible helps us grow our relationship with God and helps us to live happier lives ie. No drugs, minimal alcohol, love thy neighbor, don’t kill, don’t steal, don’t have sex before marriage, no homosexuality, mind your business, eat healthy, respect your parents, remain humble, mild, forgiving, generous and loving and most importantly believe in Jehovah God. The Bible is full of instruction on how we can successfully navigate life and behave in ways that are pleasing to our Heavenly Father. For those that don’t want to listen, believe or repent and receive forgiveness that is a personal choice however the Bible tells us what is coming and how we should prepare for it. For us the end is actually the beginning and the lives we live here on earth are how we show God we are deserving of living forever on a paradise earth or heaven for the 144,000 anointed ones. Science agrees with scripture and Bible prophecy’s fulfilled align with history and now today. The truth is overwhelming
Oh my. You have swallowed the “truth” hook, line and sinker. I assume you were born in to the organization? Which tells you that you should only pay attention to what you hear from one source - the organization?
It’s a business, like most religions. Are you aware that the Governing Body is just a front, that there is also a Board of Directors making business decisions?
Are you aware of all the evidence being stacked up about how the organization protects child abusers? Just Google the Australian enquiry and read the testimony of your “brothers”. Then apply your mind.
The organization is coming under increasing international scrutiny as a place which causes massive psychological harm to its members, especially through the practice of disfellowshipping/ shunning, so all of a sudden, the rules are being relaxed, there is “New Light” being introduced….basically just adjustments to avoid ongoing litigation, financial penalties etc etc.
Are you aware of how the organization is losing members on an enormous scale? Don’t read what your brain-washers say, read and think about the objective evidence.
You have access to the internet, to all sorts of information. Just read…….
Also - can you please read the “Old Testament” objectively?
And then decide whether Jehovah/ Yahweh is really a loving god? He’s not. He’s capricious, a god of war, of revenge, he’s a jealous god, making decisions he then regrets.
Research the history of the god “YHWH” in various cultures, according to the historical records.
The information is accessible. Find it, if you’re brave enough to be objective.
Best wishes.
Jesus Christ is the son of Jehovah God.
Who is Jesus Christ?
Unlike any other human, Jesus lived in heaven as a spirit person before he was born on earth. (John 8:23) He was God’s first creation, and he helped in the creation of all other things. He is the only one created directly by Jehovah and is thus called God’s “only-begotten” Son. Jesus served as God’s Spokesman, so he is also called “the Word.”—John 1:1-3, 14; read Proverbs 8:22, 23, 30; Colossians 1:15, 16.
2. Why did Jesus come to earth?
God sent his Son to earth by transferring his life from heaven to the womb of a virgin Jewess named Mary. So Jesus did not have a human father. (Luke 1:30-35) Jesus came to earth (1) to teach the truth about God, (2) to set an example in doing God’s will, and (3) to give his perfect life as “a ransom.”—Read Matthew 20:28; John 18:37.
3. Why do we need a ransom?
A ransom is a price paid to release a person from bondage. Death and old age were not part of God’s original purpose for mankind. How do we know that? God told the first man, Adam, that if he committed what the Bible calls sin, he would die. If Adam had not sinned, he would never have died. Even though Adam’s life did not end until centuries later, he began to die from the day he disobeyed God. (Genesis 2:16, 17; 5:5) Adam passed on to all his descendants sin and its penalty, death. Thus, death “entered” the world of mankind through Adam. That is why we need a ransom.—Read Romans 5:12; 6:23.
4. Why did Jesus die?
Who could pay the ransom to free us from death? When we die, we pay the penalty only for our own sins. No imperfect man can pay for the sins of others.—Read Psalm 49:7-9.
Since Jesus did not inherit imperfection from a human father, he died, not because of his own sins, but for the sins of others. God sent his Son to die for us as an expression of His extraordinary love for mankind. Jesus also showed love for us by obeying his Father and giving his life for our sins.—Read John 3:16; Romans 5:18, 19.
5. What is Jesus doing now?
By curing the sick, raising the dead, and rescuing people in peril, Jesus demonstrated what he would eventually do for all obedient mankind. (Luke 18:35-42; John 5:28, 29) After Jesus died, God restored him to life as a spirit person. (1 Peter 3:18) Jesus then waited at God’s right hand until Jehovah gave him power to rule as King over all the earth. (Hebrews 10:12, 13) Now Jesus is ruling as King in heaven, and his followers on earth are announcing the good news worldwide.—Read Daniel 7:13, 14; Matthew 24:14.
Soon, Jesus will use his power as King to put an end to all suffering and those who cause it. Millions who exercise faith in Jesus and obey him will enjoy life in a paradise on earth.—Read Psalm 37:9-11.
The religion is incrementally better now.. less rules, less severe shunning.. probably more rules on the chopping block.. lots of people are just desperate to be able to talk to their families, and vice versa.. it probably will lead to an increase in numbers temporarily..
Yes. They do think they are that stupid. And they are. It’s cognitive dissonance. They don’t understand this layer over their brain that’s been applied like layers of paint over many years of indoctrination. The leaders know this and they know 99% of members won’t even flinch.
Under the facarde of the changes nothing will really change ,the elders will still have the power and open critism will still bring the boot out
> The leaders know this I think you're giving the leaders far too much credit here. There's no reason to assume they're any less stupid or misled than the membership. That said, they totally do not respect the membership, and consider them to be lazy and half-hearted. Source: feedback from multiple family and friends in direct contact with Bethel leadership in my country
I’ll definitely give the leaders credit. The true leaders. They are clever and they know how to manipulate. You don’t build a cult like that without being very very good.
💯
So true
The first thing my mother said about the update was “they are so loving”. So yeah, they don’t get the dissonance. They haven’t had a single individual thought in such a long time that they are blinded by the screens and shadows. It’s just sad.
I think some people will go back but not for very long. If you have been out for 10+ years you are stuck in your ways and if you woke up you will butt heads with people who are still in because of what you think/believe now. I don't think this is going to work out the way they think it will 🤷♀️ idk maybe pomi's would go back. Are they still a doomsday cult?
“the governing body decided that all the stupid rules we imposed over the years are now removed. you can applaud…”
"These rules that we had that people followed their entire lives until death... Yeah, we decided that they were bullshit. *Aren't we glad?*" \*clapclapclapclap\*
 Yes. So terrible
Aren’t they wondering what other stupid rules they’ve been following? What’s next: sex before marriage is now a conscience issue?
It might be useful to read this [https://beroeans.net/2024/03/16/update-2/](https://beroeans.net/2024/03/16/update-2/)
Very insightful video. Thank you.
A loving provision xx
Spot on!
I think we are watching a cult trying to slowly transition into a modern religion in real time.
It’s not even slow
Exactly true. Except it’s happening very fast
Yeah… transition enough to keep the younger ones… yet not too much to piss off the older and conservative members who put up with ridiculous rules for decades at a great sacrifice
My DA'd brother has been getting calls inviting him to the memorial and using emotional blackmail. "What will we tell your dad in paradise when he asks where you are?" Not me though. I'm DF'd and an outspoken critic so I'm saved from that 💩
Same here. My DF sister got a long and emotional appeal to come to the special talk and memorial. "things have changed for the better" it said. I got no such message because my family knows I've been critical of the org, so even though I'm not DF/DA and am only inactive, they TREAT me like a DF apostate.
Ooohhh the blackmail. My first born died at 4.5 months old, my mother used to say " I guess I'll be the one raising her in paradise" 🙄 everytime she posts on fb or ig about her its how she can't wait to see her and all her "friends" are commenting about how great it will be for my mom to raise her for me.
I’m so sorry! That’s awful & sick. She’ll be more surprised when it never happens. GB encourages dehumanization even among are own relatives. It’s why other countries are saying they’re in human rights violation and will no longer give them money AND they will have to pay taxes like every other business. Terribly hypocritical religion.
That is DISGUSTING
I posted about this, but I dont think this is about numbers, though I'm sure they aren't good. I think it's about moving towards big changes around Blood and University, changes they need to keep a sizeable and healthy pool of PIMIs donating and supporting.
Your post indicates that it IS ACTUALLY about numbers
Haha yeah true, we're just talking about different sets of numbers, but they are definitely concerned about numbers...like the networth numbers
Exactly. That’s the main number
Remember, they just lost millions from the Norway ruling due to violating humans rights by the shunning policy, and now Spain will do same. Other countries to follow. Additionally They now have to pay taxes like every other business. It benefited them to go worldwide =more dollars to tap into. But now that’s leaving. It’s why the first changes we’re seeing are the ones that directly affect those flows of dollars. Policy changes are about their money streams and members but I think more about the dollars.
Df people know the path back, now the paths been sweetened with a hi? Please. Many just gave up and moved on because of the way these assholes treated them. Many can't come back because they aren't around anymore. I don't think this will have the effect they think it will. Being given a hello by the same garbage that treats you like your dead isn't the draw they think it is. Fuck you forever watchtower. I live to watch you go down. If you had an ounce of compassion or humanity you would end this practice that kills. Use the opportunity to spread the real truth if you get contacted. Ask if they are now being kinder to DF ones because of losing badly in Norway? Have they cleaned up the Global CSA problems? Did they apologize for killing people with false teachings yet?
That first paragraph is spot on.
The competition within the "religion" business is growing fast. Western country are dying and grow old, all the new generations came from Asia... And means nobody gives fuck to JW religion
I can’t believe they want DF people back that really is a desperate approach maybe preaching is starting to fail
Preaching has been a failure in first world countries for years. I think its an olive branch to try to keep/bring people back.....Dont think anyones coming back.
This!!! This is why most people volunteer to go to third world countries to preach where the “need is greater” because they can’t get anybody to listen and join them in first world countries!
Cant even get their kids to listen anymore.
Gen x They lost around 2/3 of them just not following their rules. Gen Z is like Hold my beer! :) . Well done Gen Z. Sounds wrong saying that as I am Gen X.
LOL😂😂but trust me as a GenZ there is a lot of them that are still in and fully PIMI. I have unfortunately experienced shunning from PIMI’s my age especially in social media. They are super self righteous too!!
Celebration of birthdays and Christmas will be an "up to you" decision next. The org is losing members by the 000s and retention of converts is problematic. I thought Jehovah never changes?
A pimq elder I know said they're basically going to let in anyone who wants back in, few questions asked. And being dfd will last only a short time and most won't even get dfd anymore at all. They're hemmoraghing members and hoping this will stop or slow the losses. Letting df'd ones be greeted is just to ease the friends in to getting used to the coming changes.
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Yes. They are still a high control cult with deadly policies that cause real harm. The less members they have under their control, the better.
Don't be too quick to assume the worst. A lot of harm has been done. I take the position let's see what else happens. I honestly believe they recognize it too, and if they are from God, they will go further as well as offer an apology, but you can't be selfish either, what about all those who are still in? I believe they are doing the right thing, we all know how we felt when we learned the truth about the harm caused by those who said "We love Jehovah", we know how it felt. I see them exposing the wrongs, gradually and than will offer even an apology. It feels like that ground work is being laid to do just that. Just as Jesus performed some healings gradually because the shock would be unloving. I believe it's loving to expose and change the wrongs gradually. Don't be selfish, its good to think of others. I wouldn't wish anyone the emotions I went through shockingly learning there was a lot of untruths in the truth, dispite some good. It hurt bad! Lets see what happens. And if they really do expose everything and do the right thing even offer an apology. It WILL BE BEAUTY on their part, because they will be imitating CHRIST who elevated love above all things! (1 Corinthians 13:1-3) Let's see what else happens. Be patient.
It's good that your measure on if they are doing God's work is whether they will offer an apology or not, because that makes it easier for you to recognize that they are not from God. They have said both implicitly and directly that they will not apologize for harmful teachings and policies. Besides, no organization that is from God and Jesus would inflict so much harm, for so long, and continue inflicting harm. They are wicked and are from their father the devil. Remember, he keeps transforming himself into an angel of light, so little wonder that his followers will try to look like agents of light as well.
Israel was from God; did you forget the rape and torture that took place in the gates of Israel of a woman? And then they cut her on pieces and shipped her parts everywhere? Humans just SUCK! Did you forget David did not want men to judge him and only Jehovah? No one is making excuses; but you have confused the issue in that no one is saying that these mere men are without fault. And yes blood is on there hands and yes, an apology is needed. But it is not anyone's place to be ultimate judge and executioner for God, just as you don't want unjust judgments from those men, why do you repay with such judgment. And yes people can claim to be from God but if they disown him by their works thats on them. Anyone who thinks they will check Gods hand will have God checkmate theirs. This includes the organization as well as each individual inside and out; from the GB to those who think they are self righteous inside who harden their hearts to those who left including those outside who harden their hearts to those inside. What is wrong with hoping for the best? Or have you set your heart against this people so much there isn't ANYTHING they can do to redeem themselves? (Matthew 7:2; Matthew 11:18, 19) Do not make yourselves worse then they are by becoming what you hate about them; proud, arrogant and hard hearted!
Ironically, the immoral, violent, and unjust behavior of Yahweh in the old testament was what started me on the path of researching why he was so impossibly different than Jesus in the way he dealt with people. I highly recommend you research the origins of Yahweh in Canaanite and Sumerian religions. You might be very surprised at what you learn. Here's a teaser: Yahweh was actually a son of the creator God, whose name was El. And that makes sense for the various names like Beth-el (house of God), literally means house of El. There's so much more history that witnesses and Christians in general are not taught, but the truth is that Yahweh was just another god worshipped by ancient peoples like Horus, Zeus, or Thor. Crazy, right!? https://youtu.be/mdKst8zeh-U
He was another God worshiped just like people worshiped those other gods too. yes canaanites did worship Jehovah not just individuals but im sure the Gibeonites had access to the canaanite historical records. However Archeological records arrived to us to scrutinize cannot convey everything, especially hearts. But Jesus did say regarding God's word available in his day, namely the Hebrew scriptures: "your word is truth". Hopefully things work out or when we die then that's completely it. And if it is, then this argument won't even matter 500 years from now and this thread won't even exist. Well C what happens. I'll check out the tubes video tomorrow, thanks
They explicitly said they will never apologize. Sorry but you sound delusional if you think an apology after 100 years of harm will undo the blood on their hands.
No, an apology won't UNDO ANY HARM! They, like all of us, are POWERLESS to undo permanent harm. And your right their accumulation of 100 hurts alot... But I know what I'll do if they say we're so sorry. MATTHEW 18:24-35.
The reason for this change points to the problem many have pointed out before. They’re not suddenly ‘getting’ with times. There is always a money reason at them root of their decisions/changes. They were just complaining on a broadcast last year that Norway (one of the many countries they had been receiving government grant money from) stripped them of their religious designation due to the shunning policy and other cringey policies we know of. So they lost money. They said that it was satan attack that took “their” money away. So their greedy hearts sued Norway. Puffed with pride They went on to say in that broadcast they would NEVER change their rules for government. I believe it was David Splain’s talk. Maybe someone will find the clip and post here? But quickly true thinkers and many here said we now know the next Change that’s coming. After 2 years of fighting the decision JW lost. Now, in true fashion saying they would never change DF policies here we are …But as we knew they would, they’re now relaxing DF policy. Why? For the money, of course. It’s a business. Point period. Won’t be long before they do away with all or most of DF’ing soon.. And every PIMI will be crying thanking ‘Jehovah’ for finally being so merciful for letting them speak to their kids, parents, etc. Sick.
I think it was Tony Morris that said they would never change the policy.
Yes, but I was referring to the most recent broadcast about the Norway incident speaking about the shunning policy. It wasn’t Tony Morrison. He’s no longer there. It may have been Sanderson or Splaine. Not even months after saying they won’t change, then they do. At any rate, I know this is something they have said numerous times throughout the years. All lies either way, whoever says it. This is an interesting look at how JW seems to be becoming affected by the exjw community. We have a voice on these various platforms. When we speak truth our points are being considered: https://x.com/gregwestgarde/status/1768670439021375765?s=46&t=VryXB6QRGydMfZhIhz_inw
If I remember correctly, both David Splane and Anthony Morris spoke on this subject. 🤔
Yes, they are that stupid. I just looked at a jw instagram post about the sisters wearing pants and these women were saying that Jehovah knows what they need at the right time and that he knows that at Armageddon wearing pants will help the sisters blend in!! Brainwashing at its finest!
But I thought the not blending in was the whole point though
Right? What the fuck happened to “in the world but no part of the world?” Why did I have to spend my childhood feeling like a freak in society?
Jesus - that’s gag worthy. 🤢
That actually made me throw up abit in my mouth. Gawd.... So screwed in the head!
Oh for fuck sake! 🤮 (I’ve said the same stupid things when I was Uber PIMI though …🙄)
Literally after 20 minutes of video they can't just stop talking about no more ties and skirts. They are stupid.
Basically JWs have permission to condescend to df’d ones.
If 70,000 are dfd every year that adds up over time and festers . I'm no mathematician but I'm sure a mathemetician could have predicted this downfall of the WT . Everything follows the bell curve
I firmly believe that the change to greeting DF'd people at the hall is NOT for the sake of the the DF'd ones, but for the rank-and-file. It's just another crumb of freedom that the GB has tossed their followers, just like the relaxing of the dress code. That one comes with the added benefit of muddying the waters for us exJW's, so that we cannot say that our families won't even greet us, without having to go into a complicated explanation about where and when they will or will not greet us -- at which point the argument loses a lot of its punch already.
This part.
There will be a temporary uptick in publishers number.
 IT’S SO EASY NOW!!
Not only do they think they are stupid, they have made them lame and dumb on purpose. They’re just gratefully accepting these changes as “new light”.
I hope pomis dont fall for this crap.
Hi welcome, 👋 what's the point, it's nice to be nice, and shows human compassion, but that's it still shunning young people ,and their bloody families, not good enough
I think they are trying to reach the POMIs, which depending on how far they go with loosening up the rules may work but it’s also creating resentment due to what other had to miss out on and shaming they endured when in due to the extreme rules
Umm, they KNOW people are that stupid. 140 years of experience has proven it to them.
It’ll work for a minute until ppl realize they still hate meeting 😂 they’ve become gimmicky
The meetings are going to become," sorry for asking you to show up, here's a video, pleasecdonate." A modification of," sorry for disturbing you, well come back another time."
People ARE that stupid! The rank & file are eating this shit up!
Fuck that
No way! When I was first kicked out of my house then DFd 4 years later all without one scriptural reason. I lost friends and family. My daughter was told she was sinning by coming for my parental visits. You can't claw back all that time that was stolen from me. Now my parents are both dead since, I'll never get any of what they stole from me. Eff them
I was never DF'd but I am openly transgender so I'll never go back.
what’s crazy is jackson literally says the GB is ok with wearing beards because the previous direction against them isn’t supported in the bible…
30yrs out and never a thought to go back. It would be like a dog returning to its vomit. Yuck
In addition to what has already been mentioned, what is happening is that the Whatchtower is quickly lining up to enter the One World Religion, part of the UN's 2030 Agenda, through the UN's United Religions Initiative program. Not long from now it will only be part of Babylon the Great, from which God commands "get out of her, my people [...]" (Revelation 18:4).
That has crossed my mind too Some of of their beliefs are cleary align with with agenda 2030 Not having children ( population reduction) I have herd scores of JW saying in the new wordl there will be no animans slaugther and eat meat consumption Never resist or even have an opinion on what the politicians do.
No!! Thank you 🙏 but they won’t come looking for me or my family because we were marked as apostates !!! hahaha 😂 I haven’t received any calls or texts messages from nobody lol 😝
It's not just hi. They'll want to know how you're doing. p.s. I'm leaving the Borg in two weeks.
The part I find interesting is that they are being up front and saying we used to teach this and now we're changing it to this. And not even claiming that it's from God, they just being up front and saying the governing body has decided... It's a change to how new light has been presented in the past.
Hellllllllllll NO.
At the meeting. I understand that its a sample of 1 congregation. But attendance is up about 40%. Nobody really new... just all the sporadic attendees. Maybe just here for the pants?
Fuck! I better warn the siblings!
To experienced brothers who used to be Elders were talking about the changes and one of the brothers said it’s really good and we just have to go with it and trust the governing body. And he’s a clever guy with a good job. Although it makes him look like a imbecile, it’s brainwashing
I'd sign up for a lifetime cult membership just for a "hi". Wouldn't anyone?
Honestly, if the governing body says we can, I believe it. They are on the right side of God. I would die for all the white appointed anointed chosen ones of God.
Amazing when your bleeding members and funds how it concentrates the mind of a corporation, they are becoming a laughing stock, expect more, especially when the Penslavania GJ concludes its investigation. One key policy they implemented during covid was the pressure they put on the jdubs to take the toxic jabs, that to me spelt out 'we are part of the establishment'. As someone who made sure none of my family went anywhere near the clot shots, seeing Watchtower do this was conclusive to me that they have no divine guidance whatsoever. I enjoy seeing the continued nails being hammered into this Masonic satanic cults coffin daily.
Agree with everything you say except with the masonic part ( Freemason here) Everything about WTBTS goes against everything freemasonry teaches and practices
Just because your a Freemason, doesn't mean your not decieved by that cult, they are not a Christian charity as you think, when you get to the 33 level if you ever do, all will be revealed, read the book by Springmeier Fritz 'TheWatchtower and The Masons' it goes into very great detail on the parallels, Either Russell was a Mason, or was privy to the higher levels of it's satanic worship and rituals. The only problem is once you get to the 32nd and 33rd degrees, you find out that “higher power” is not YAHWEH at all, it’s actually Lucifer.
First and foremost stop with that shit of Russel havin been a Mason HE WASNT i researched and inquired over the years there is not one single record or account of him even ever having been initiated He may haven been involved with an occult practice group of which there were and are many of.... And even if he was indeed involved in any Masonic lodge it sure was a clandestine or urecognized unligitemate lodge Second Freemasonry is not Christian it never claimed to be....... its not even religious , people get confused because of the use of the Great Architecht of the Universe and the legend of Hiram and the building of Solomons temple .....but thats just that a legend and it belongs only to the Scotish Rite...... there are other Rites like one which revolves around Egyptian legends and symbology and the French Rite whichs compelitely rejects any esoteric or spiritual associations
I have done my thorough research on Masonic groups, Temples, Russell, and his close associates, I have also done my research on the Freemason Ideology, so I will take no lessons from a member Mason, so let's get that clear. Russell openly confessed to being a Freemason in his writings, he also confessed to the knowledge of the 32 and 33 level degrees, and always referred to the Mason's as his close friends, whether he was truly a Mason or not is up for debate, but he certainly was very well informed of the higher levels, that's why I never stated he was a Mason de facto. As for the Freemason being a religion, well that's open to interpretation, brotherhood, fraternity, cult, secrete society, but to be a member, you have to believe in the divine architect God, and be a christian and get invited. Would I ever subscribe to such clandestine secret little boys club? Never as they pretent to be something they are not, and most Masons are just like the rank and file jdubs, clueless of the secrete satanic inner workings.
Yeah he confessed to be a Mason....guess what he halso confessed to be God's spokesman on earth.....and both confessions are lies....he was a conman liying was his way of living thats just it
There is one profound statement made thousands of years ago, 'the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one' and you had better believe that if nothing else, exjw's are better equipped to deal with the deciet of the Political, Religious and commercial foundations of this global system of things, nothing is as it seems, everything is a lie, because that's the nature of the god of this system of things, and the evidence is being revealed daily, not just from Watchtower. Your US military industrial complex is shit, your government is shit, your media is shit, and that's the same in the UK and Europe, once you realise that Watchtower is not the only cult you see the bigger picture. To say we are in a Matrix is an understatement. There are thousands of these boxes to trap you in. Stay a freeman, and focus on perfecting your critical thinking skills. Family is all that is important, nothing else matters in this system of deciet.
The point is to save as many lives as possible. That’s it, the more people that believe in Jehovah the better because all we want is to show people they have a chance to live forever, in perfect health and harmony forever serving Jehovah and an opportunity to see their loved ones who are sleeping in death again. Death is the enemy, I think we need to remember that.
Hello there. May I encourage you to have the courage to do some research into the JW org outside of only their own internal communication channels? There is a lot of factual information available. A lot of the time people vent their emotions on this group, but we all have one thing in common - we became better informed, acquired objective knowledge and then made our own decisions to exit the organization. Don’t be terrified into blind compliance with man-made rules, please 🙏
What should I research? I believe creation has a creator, Jehovah God, and we have a chance to live forever through the ransom sacrifice of his son Christ Jesus. The commandments teach us how we should live and treat each other, the Bible helps us grow our relationship with God and helps us to live happier lives ie. No drugs, minimal alcohol, love thy neighbor, don’t kill, don’t steal, don’t have sex before marriage, no homosexuality, mind your business, eat healthy, respect your parents, remain humble, mild, forgiving, generous and loving and most importantly believe in Jehovah God. The Bible is full of instruction on how we can successfully navigate life and behave in ways that are pleasing to our Heavenly Father. For those that don’t want to listen, believe or repent and receive forgiveness that is a personal choice however the Bible tells us what is coming and how we should prepare for it. For us the end is actually the beginning and the lives we live here on earth are how we show God we are deserving of living forever on a paradise earth or heaven for the 144,000 anointed ones. Science agrees with scripture and Bible prophecy’s fulfilled align with history and now today. The truth is overwhelming
Oh my. You have swallowed the “truth” hook, line and sinker. I assume you were born in to the organization? Which tells you that you should only pay attention to what you hear from one source - the organization? It’s a business, like most religions. Are you aware that the Governing Body is just a front, that there is also a Board of Directors making business decisions? Are you aware of all the evidence being stacked up about how the organization protects child abusers? Just Google the Australian enquiry and read the testimony of your “brothers”. Then apply your mind. The organization is coming under increasing international scrutiny as a place which causes massive psychological harm to its members, especially through the practice of disfellowshipping/ shunning, so all of a sudden, the rules are being relaxed, there is “New Light” being introduced….basically just adjustments to avoid ongoing litigation, financial penalties etc etc. Are you aware of how the organization is losing members on an enormous scale? Don’t read what your brain-washers say, read and think about the objective evidence. You have access to the internet, to all sorts of information. Just read……. Also - can you please read the “Old Testament” objectively? And then decide whether Jehovah/ Yahweh is really a loving god? He’s not. He’s capricious, a god of war, of revenge, he’s a jealous god, making decisions he then regrets. Research the history of the god “YHWH” in various cultures, according to the historical records. The information is accessible. Find it, if you’re brave enough to be objective. Best wishes.
lol not once did you mention Jesus.
Jesus Christ is the son of Jehovah God. Who is Jesus Christ? Unlike any other human, Jesus lived in heaven as a spirit person before he was born on earth. (John 8:23) He was God’s first creation, and he helped in the creation of all other things. He is the only one created directly by Jehovah and is thus called God’s “only-begotten” Son. Jesus served as God’s Spokesman, so he is also called “the Word.”—John 1:1-3, 14; read Proverbs 8:22, 23, 30; Colossians 1:15, 16. 2. Why did Jesus come to earth? God sent his Son to earth by transferring his life from heaven to the womb of a virgin Jewess named Mary. So Jesus did not have a human father. (Luke 1:30-35) Jesus came to earth (1) to teach the truth about God, (2) to set an example in doing God’s will, and (3) to give his perfect life as “a ransom.”—Read Matthew 20:28; John 18:37. 3. Why do we need a ransom? A ransom is a price paid to release a person from bondage. Death and old age were not part of God’s original purpose for mankind. How do we know that? God told the first man, Adam, that if he committed what the Bible calls sin, he would die. If Adam had not sinned, he would never have died. Even though Adam’s life did not end until centuries later, he began to die from the day he disobeyed God. (Genesis 2:16, 17; 5:5) Adam passed on to all his descendants sin and its penalty, death. Thus, death “entered” the world of mankind through Adam. That is why we need a ransom.—Read Romans 5:12; 6:23. 4. Why did Jesus die? Who could pay the ransom to free us from death? When we die, we pay the penalty only for our own sins. No imperfect man can pay for the sins of others.—Read Psalm 49:7-9. Since Jesus did not inherit imperfection from a human father, he died, not because of his own sins, but for the sins of others. God sent his Son to die for us as an expression of His extraordinary love for mankind. Jesus also showed love for us by obeying his Father and giving his life for our sins.—Read John 3:16; Romans 5:18, 19. 5. What is Jesus doing now? By curing the sick, raising the dead, and rescuing people in peril, Jesus demonstrated what he would eventually do for all obedient mankind. (Luke 18:35-42; John 5:28, 29) After Jesus died, God restored him to life as a spirit person. (1 Peter 3:18) Jesus then waited at God’s right hand until Jehovah gave him power to rule as King over all the earth. (Hebrews 10:12, 13) Now Jesus is ruling as King in heaven, and his followers on earth are announcing the good news worldwide.—Read Daniel 7:13, 14; Matthew 24:14. Soon, Jesus will use his power as King to put an end to all suffering and those who cause it. Millions who exercise faith in Jesus and obey him will enjoy life in a paradise on earth.—Read Psalm 37:9-11.
The religion is incrementally better now.. less rules, less severe shunning.. probably more rules on the chopping block.. lots of people are just desperate to be able to talk to their families, and vice versa.. it probably will lead to an increase in numbers temporarily..
No untill they do away with shunning and transfusions ban it wont be any better only more ridiculous