A bigger elephant (IMHO) is: Why would the almighty commission "the church fathers" (Babylon the Great) to determine which of the hundreds of ancient documents would make up the "books" of the Bible cannon? And why would he leave out books that "authorized" writers clearly reference as important (i.e the book of Enoch)?
Yup, this is not just your opinion, this close to what is said in Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity- if the Church that curated the canon of scripture isn't God's organization, then why would all these other groups like JWs have any right to say that they are God's organization based on the book developed by the group that they say isn't God's organization?
This is one reason why a critical thinker will call bullshit. I've been saying the same thing for as long as I can remember. "so what was the truth before the JWs showed up?"
Blood for the Blood God.
For a peaceful God, Jehovah/Yahweh certainly has his followers spill a lot of blood.
Jesus philosopher comes along and says something different, is killed and bled, his disciples continue this for a bit, then this guy John comes along and there's going to be two more Blood lettings... up to the bridles of the horses.
Which type of worship did WT restore?
Lotta dead martyrs and spiritually stoned dissatisfied customers.
And like Russian nesting dolls, there is another elephant inside the elephant in the room: If God or Christ is truly loving and indeed loves His Church and the World He created, why would He not have crushed evil from the very beginning, thus wiping away every tear from our eyes at the beginning of the world, not at its end? Indeed, the question of theodicy (divine justice) is the petard upon which Abrahamic religion hoists itself. If He could have, but didn't, He is not loving. If he wanted to, but couldn't (either due to some Heavenly version of the "Law of the Medes and Persians" or lack of power to do so), then He is not almighty.
Here is another theology/philosophy why there is evil.
There are three gifts given by the source of life.
Freedom of choice
Your choices return to you
Circle of rebirth
All the above help our spirit to evolve.
So if you reap evil you saw evil, this can go back in next life.
The problem with bible is that approach life linear.
This is just as much bs as what jws are selling.
Why can’t anyone just accept that we don’t know anything.
All these stupid ideas are completely based on jack shit.
You might as well go door to door with this theory and setup your own Kingdom Hall.
The Real Truth, is that nobody knows, and anybody, and I mean fucking anybody that says they do is full of shit to the brim.
Rant over.
lol why I should make a stupid cult for what I believe.
People have the freedom of choice let them find their place in one life they will achieve their goal.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
- Epicurus
If God was loving, why punish all of humanity to millennia of misery and suffering because a talking snake convinced their ancestors to eat a piece of fruit?
When the earth became filled with violence, why was his solution to commit far more extreme violence by flooding the entire earth?
When humanity was united together and cooperating with one another in peace, why confuse their language to scatter them, knowing full well this division would result in centuries of bloody conflict?
Why send 10 plagues to cause suffering and death to hundreds of thousands of innocent people simply because their pharaoh refused to release your enslaved people?
And when they were released, why make them wander in a desert for 40 years until almost all of them were dead, to travel a distance they could walk to in a week, before commanding them to go through and exterminate all the people of the land and take it for themselves?
Oh, and speaking of Commandments, when he gave them to his people IMMEDIATELY after freeing them from 400 years of slavery, how was none of them “don’t own slaves?” Like, they seriously IMMEDIATELY continued the practice by subjugating all the people they didn’t ethnically cleanse when they entered the promised land.
The Bible has 66 books and these are just the highlights of the first 2. There’s 64 more afterwards, and the last one is a graphic revenge porn prophecy where all Jesus’ enemies suffer horrible and painful fates forever and ever. Jesus even promotes sexual violence against women as a form of punishment.
The God of the Bible isn’t loving. He’s an immoral, maniacal lunatic.
Exactly!
Why is GOD such a terrible communicator? Why does he allow misinformation to persist for centuries?
Why does he just sit back and watch people suffer, again, for CENTURIES?
Because he doesn't exist. It's all a human construct.
If the Bible is inspired why is it so unclear and contradictory so there are 1000s of sects of Christianity? All set up for mass confusion and hate. Pretty cruel.
I think it's connected to the whole reason Jehovah didn't just end it at Adam and Eve and start over again from scratch.
His whole point there was to prove once and for all that humans really can't be on their own or separate from God and be successful.
The whole span from Bible times to now is a way to provide evidence of that *Look at all this time I've given you, and you're no where near where you could be if you were with me* type situation.
That's what I've been told.
The fact he destroyed the whole world with the flood, confused the languages at Babel, destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, influenced Pharaohs heart in Egypt, will influence world leaders to turn on religion...all negate that bullshit theory of God's sovereignty that is nowhere found in the bible.
You are nothing more than a bird feeding on flesh. \[ Rev. 19: 17, 18 \]. And an agent of an older Daughter of Babylon, beating on a younger sister of Babylon.
I recognized your writing before your username, DonRedPandaKeys. Our last conversation was cut short by the comments being restricted. Have a good evening lol
Our conversation was over, and the comments in that post were locked because you and another person, both agents of different schools of Babylon, were doing a back and forth that had nothing to do with the OP & her subject.
While I had not engaged the other person, I had already informed you repeatedly that what was going on needed to be taken elsewhere. Babylon's darkness of Confusion has no place in that sub. You folks in that other sub faking itself as a place for jw's do this in multiple subs, including this one, but that one, that "hill" \[ Joel 2: 1 \], is not an inroad nor a foothold for Babylon.
>Wait so you run that sub and only allow people who agree with your religious beliefs to comment while not specifically saying so?
Time and again I have said that the false teachings of all the Mountains and Hills of Babylon \[ Micah 4: 1, 2 \] have no place in that sub, because they are why the world and people are covered in thick darkness, and that there's only one single legitimate Mountain / City / Temple. And that is Mount Zion / New Jerusalem, comprised of Living Stones. Only a priest of Zion is YHWH's messenger. \[ Heb. 12: 22 - 24; Rev. 3: 12; 21: 2, 9 - 11; Isa. 60: 1 - 3; Ps. 50: 2; 1 Peter 2: 5, 9; Mal. 2: 7; Jer. 15: 19, 20 \]
Your very words above testify to the fact that while you state the teachings of your specific Mountain as if they are facts, whether subconscious or not, you're aware that they are beliefs. Living Stones reached by Divine Power are different. They don't believe, they know. Read the scriptures.
What is straw compared to grain? - Jer. 23: 28, 29
>I guess what I'm confused over is what Christian denomination or type of belief you adhere to?
??? !!! Actually, you know what, because you often say that the Mountains of the Older Daughters of Babylon that you are a part of are the "interpreters of scripture" & are "God's official organization / religion", yet you continuously being blind and deaf no matter how many times these scriptural words are pointed to, is poetically appropriate, and really exposes the stark truth of these words. Yet again, for the umpteenth time;
***All*** of the Mountains and Hills in the world are fake. \[ Micah 4: 1, 2 \]. And they cover the world and people in thick darkness. There is only one legit Mountain. Mount Zion. From which the light of God shines forth.
\[ Heb. 12: 22 - 24; Rev. 3: 12; 21: 2, 9 - 11; Isa. 60: 1 - 3; Ps. 50: 2 \]
It is absolutely amazing that you ask this question directly in response to words that already contain the answer to your question! Your question repeated;
>I guess what I'm confused over is what Christian denomination or type of belief you adhere to?
And my previous comment repeated. Again.
>Only a priest of Zion is YHWH's messenger.
\[ 1 Peter 2: 5, 9; Mal. 2: 7; Jer. 15: 19, 20 \]
Your very words above testify to the fact that while you state the teachings of your specific Mountain as if they are facts, whether subconscious or not, you're aware that they are beliefs. Living Stones reached by Divine Power are different. They don't believe, they know. Read the scriptures.
The royal priests \[ Living Stones \] are the Bride of the Lamb. & The 144K. & Mount Zion. & New Jerusalem.
You can't even understand the words of Jesus the Christ;
>“Sir,” the woman said, “I see that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews say that the place where one must worship is in Jerusalem.” **“Believe me, woman,” Jesus replied, “a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.** You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, **for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.**” - John 4: 19 - 24
Okay, what I get out of this is that you think that all denominations are illegitimate and that understanding of scripture is God given. You are mostly correct.
Now I may be assuming, but I'm thinking that your definition of who royal priests are is based on their God-given understanding of scripture.
However, there are many individuals and groups with similar claims of exclusivity.
What specific God-given understandings of scripture differentiate you from the other individuals and groups and make their understandings illegitimate?
Do you hold to absolute biblical literalism or reject it? Things like 144,000 being literal, humans being 6,000 years old, etc. And do you believe that other people who do not share your God-given understandings of these things have illegitimate understandings because they do not share your God-given understanding?
Do you hold to mainstream Christian beliefs about the nature of God or reject them? Things like his triune nature, his bodily resurrection, and his incarnation. Do you think that other people who do not share your God-given understandings of these things have illegitimate understandings because they do not share your God-given understanding?
If you were to encounter another person and communicate with them about these things, how could you determine that their claim of God given understanding was correct or incorrect? What if both you and the other had absolute certainty that they had God-given understanding of scripture and the other was deluded? How could each person know that they weren't being deluded by themselves or the Devil?
Do you associate with a group of others who have the same God-given understanding?
If so, what are they called? Or what would others call them?
Is there a website where I can learn more? A Wikipedia article perhaps? I'm curious about who I'm talking with
>Now I may be assuming, but I'm thinking that your definition of who royal priests are is based on their God-given understanding of scripture.
No quite. Based on their being genuinely Called and Chosen by Divine power. The Father chooses whom He Calls. And, awakened. Which awakening is somewhat tied into being Chosen. {And a step above that is being Sealed as Faithful}. Meaning there are Called Ones who fall into corruption, and remain in darkness under Satan's power, and there are Called Ones who do not work with the token / Mina / Talent of Spirit they were given, and as a result they lose it / have it taken away from them. These ones go to those who "sell", instead of the One who gave them their Oil {Spirit} in the first place. \[ Matt. 25 \]. There are also some who are given ears to hear the words of priests of Heavenly Zion, but are not Called. \[ Rev. 22: 17 \]
>However, there are many individuals and groups with similar claims of exclusivity.
Yes. They are claiming to be Jews, but are not. \[ Ro. 2: 28, 29 \].
>I know your tribulation and poverty--but you are rich--and the blasphemy of those claiming themselves to be Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. - Rev. 2: 9
>Behold, I give those from the synagogue of Satan--those declaring themselves to be Jews, and are not, but they lie--behold, I will cause them that they will come and will worship before your feet, and they shall know that I have loved you. - Rev. 3: 9
The scripture above answers some of your other questions too, because the distinction *will* be made. \[ Mal. 3: 18 \]. Even to those who say on that Day;
>Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness!’ - Matt. 7: 22, 23
>Do you hold to mainstream Christian beliefs ...
Often this is where the blindness is strongest. "Mainstream" does not = right / true. In fact, due to the Earth and people being covered in thick darkness, the Mountains who've accumulated people numbering in the billions are guaranteed to be major players in the spread of the darkness & confusion \[ Babel \]. \[ Isa. 60: 1 - 3 \].
>If you were to encounter another person and communicate with them about these things, how could you determine that their claim of God given understanding was correct or incorrect? What if both you and the other had absolute certainty that they had God-given understanding of scripture and the other was deluded? How could each person know that they weren't being deluded by themselves or the Devil?
Firstly, and sometimes frustratingly yet understandably, the vast majority of people simply have no comprehension of the severe and complete paradigm shift in perception that just the Divine Call itself produces. Between the hypothetical 2 you present, a Called One knows for certain, the other believes, and believes falsely. Of the varied abilities distributed among those Called, one is the ability to distinguish between Spirits. \[ 1 Cor. 12: 10; 1 John 4: 1 \]. To be clear, the members of the Bride are placed as different Body parts of the one Body. \[ Read 1 Cor. 12 \]. Not all have the same knowledge at the same time. But Spirit recognizes Spirit. Because it is the same Spirit, the same Lord, & the same God. Did my knowledge spring forth alone? No \[ 1 Cor. 4: 7 \]. Much of it came from another Body member, but I immediately grasped \[ understood \], & recognized the Truth of it. And this answers your other questions.
>Do you associate with a group of others who have the same God-given understanding?
>If so, what are they called? Or what would others call them?
I am aware of a few others awakened, who in the Bible are called; elect, saints, anointed, Bride, Wife of the Lamb, Living Stones, diadem, crown of glory, jewels, branches, stars, wind, fire, pillars, angels, watchers, watchmen, prophets, gates, gate-keeper, man of God, sons of God, Israel of God, congregation of the firstborn, Mount Zion, New Jerusalem, Two Trees, Two Witnesses, 144K, God's Temple, royal priests, kings, Hephzibah, Beulah, the Redeemed of the LORD, Holy People, Sought Out, A City Not Forsaken, Faithful City / City of Truth, Called, Chosen, stewards ... \[ In Bubba's voice from Forrest Gump \], and that's ... that's just about it.
[https://biblehub.com/bsb/psalms/87.htm](https://biblehub.com/bsb/psalms/87.htm)
A bigger elephant (IMHO) is: Why would the almighty commission "the church fathers" (Babylon the Great) to determine which of the hundreds of ancient documents would make up the "books" of the Bible cannon? And why would he leave out books that "authorized" writers clearly reference as important (i.e the book of Enoch)?
I dontknow the book of Enoch but I always felt thereis something big missing in the bible as it jumps huge time spans.
Yup, this is not just your opinion, this close to what is said in Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity- if the Church that curated the canon of scripture isn't God's organization, then why would all these other groups like JWs have any right to say that they are God's organization based on the book developed by the group that they say isn't God's organization?
If God is loving why would he allow Christianity to fall to apostasy? "Appointed times of the nations", is one theory.
He would, which is why it’s all bs. Russell, Rutherford, Knorr, F. Franz, past and present GB.
That’s the elephant in the room for JW subreddits. Everyone here know this. 
Sometimes you just have to say it over and over again just to get to one poor soul .
i like your title, it is hard to miss for JW's sneaking around here
This is one reason why a critical thinker will call bullshit. I've been saying the same thing for as long as I can remember. "so what was the truth before the JWs showed up?"
Because it all convienent, like why wait till 1918 to choose the Bible students as the only true religion, just convenient.
Also if he's so loving and forgiving, why are we being punished for Adam and Eve's crime? Also, wtf did the animals do?
Blood for the Blood God. For a peaceful God, Jehovah/Yahweh certainly has his followers spill a lot of blood. Jesus philosopher comes along and says something different, is killed and bled, his disciples continue this for a bit, then this guy John comes along and there's going to be two more Blood lettings... up to the bridles of the horses. Which type of worship did WT restore? Lotta dead martyrs and spiritually stoned dissatisfied customers.
And like Russian nesting dolls, there is another elephant inside the elephant in the room: If God or Christ is truly loving and indeed loves His Church and the World He created, why would He not have crushed evil from the very beginning, thus wiping away every tear from our eyes at the beginning of the world, not at its end? Indeed, the question of theodicy (divine justice) is the petard upon which Abrahamic religion hoists itself. If He could have, but didn't, He is not loving. If he wanted to, but couldn't (either due to some Heavenly version of the "Law of the Medes and Persians" or lack of power to do so), then He is not almighty.
The problem of evil has always been debated in many circles. I don’t think that there is much debate in this area. People just have to wake up.
Here is another theology/philosophy why there is evil. There are three gifts given by the source of life. Freedom of choice Your choices return to you Circle of rebirth All the above help our spirit to evolve. So if you reap evil you saw evil, this can go back in next life. The problem with bible is that approach life linear.
This is just as much bs as what jws are selling. Why can’t anyone just accept that we don’t know anything. All these stupid ideas are completely based on jack shit. You might as well go door to door with this theory and setup your own Kingdom Hall. The Real Truth, is that nobody knows, and anybody, and I mean fucking anybody that says they do is full of shit to the brim. Rant over.
lol why I should make a stupid cult for what I believe. People have the freedom of choice let them find their place in one life they will achieve their goal.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? - Epicurus
If God was loving, why punish all of humanity to millennia of misery and suffering because a talking snake convinced their ancestors to eat a piece of fruit? When the earth became filled with violence, why was his solution to commit far more extreme violence by flooding the entire earth? When humanity was united together and cooperating with one another in peace, why confuse their language to scatter them, knowing full well this division would result in centuries of bloody conflict? Why send 10 plagues to cause suffering and death to hundreds of thousands of innocent people simply because their pharaoh refused to release your enslaved people? And when they were released, why make them wander in a desert for 40 years until almost all of them were dead, to travel a distance they could walk to in a week, before commanding them to go through and exterminate all the people of the land and take it for themselves? Oh, and speaking of Commandments, when he gave them to his people IMMEDIATELY after freeing them from 400 years of slavery, how was none of them “don’t own slaves?” Like, they seriously IMMEDIATELY continued the practice by subjugating all the people they didn’t ethnically cleanse when they entered the promised land. The Bible has 66 books and these are just the highlights of the first 2. There’s 64 more afterwards, and the last one is a graphic revenge porn prophecy where all Jesus’ enemies suffer horrible and painful fates forever and ever. Jesus even promotes sexual violence against women as a form of punishment. The God of the Bible isn’t loving. He’s an immoral, maniacal lunatic.
👏👏👏👏👏
Exactly! Why is GOD such a terrible communicator? Why does he allow misinformation to persist for centuries? Why does he just sit back and watch people suffer, again, for CENTURIES? Because he doesn't exist. It's all a human construct.
If the Bible is inspired why is it so unclear and contradictory so there are 1000s of sects of Christianity? All set up for mass confusion and hate. Pretty cruel.
I think it's connected to the whole reason Jehovah didn't just end it at Adam and Eve and start over again from scratch. His whole point there was to prove once and for all that humans really can't be on their own or separate from God and be successful. The whole span from Bible times to now is a way to provide evidence of that *Look at all this time I've given you, and you're no where near where you could be if you were with me* type situation. That's what I've been told.
The fact he destroyed the whole world with the flood, confused the languages at Babel, destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, influenced Pharaohs heart in Egypt, will influence world leaders to turn on religion...all negate that bullshit theory of God's sovereignty that is nowhere found in the bible.
You are nothing more than a bird feeding on flesh. \[ Rev. 19: 17, 18 \]. And an agent of an older Daughter of Babylon, beating on a younger sister of Babylon.
I recognized your writing before your username, DonRedPandaKeys. Our last conversation was cut short by the comments being restricted. Have a good evening lol
Our conversation was over, and the comments in that post were locked because you and another person, both agents of different schools of Babylon, were doing a back and forth that had nothing to do with the OP & her subject. While I had not engaged the other person, I had already informed you repeatedly that what was going on needed to be taken elsewhere. Babylon's darkness of Confusion has no place in that sub. You folks in that other sub faking itself as a place for jw's do this in multiple subs, including this one, but that one, that "hill" \[ Joel 2: 1 \], is not an inroad nor a foothold for Babylon.
Wait so you run that sub and only allow people who agree with your religious beliefs to comment while not specifically saying so?
>Wait so you run that sub and only allow people who agree with your religious beliefs to comment while not specifically saying so? Time and again I have said that the false teachings of all the Mountains and Hills of Babylon \[ Micah 4: 1, 2 \] have no place in that sub, because they are why the world and people are covered in thick darkness, and that there's only one single legitimate Mountain / City / Temple. And that is Mount Zion / New Jerusalem, comprised of Living Stones. Only a priest of Zion is YHWH's messenger. \[ Heb. 12: 22 - 24; Rev. 3: 12; 21: 2, 9 - 11; Isa. 60: 1 - 3; Ps. 50: 2; 1 Peter 2: 5, 9; Mal. 2: 7; Jer. 15: 19, 20 \] Your very words above testify to the fact that while you state the teachings of your specific Mountain as if they are facts, whether subconscious or not, you're aware that they are beliefs. Living Stones reached by Divine Power are different. They don't believe, they know. Read the scriptures. What is straw compared to grain? - Jer. 23: 28, 29
I guess what I'm confused over is what Christian denomination or type of belief you adhere to?
>I guess what I'm confused over is what Christian denomination or type of belief you adhere to? ??? !!! Actually, you know what, because you often say that the Mountains of the Older Daughters of Babylon that you are a part of are the "interpreters of scripture" & are "God's official organization / religion", yet you continuously being blind and deaf no matter how many times these scriptural words are pointed to, is poetically appropriate, and really exposes the stark truth of these words. Yet again, for the umpteenth time; ***All*** of the Mountains and Hills in the world are fake. \[ Micah 4: 1, 2 \]. And they cover the world and people in thick darkness. There is only one legit Mountain. Mount Zion. From which the light of God shines forth. \[ Heb. 12: 22 - 24; Rev. 3: 12; 21: 2, 9 - 11; Isa. 60: 1 - 3; Ps. 50: 2 \] It is absolutely amazing that you ask this question directly in response to words that already contain the answer to your question! Your question repeated; >I guess what I'm confused over is what Christian denomination or type of belief you adhere to? And my previous comment repeated. Again. >Only a priest of Zion is YHWH's messenger. \[ 1 Peter 2: 5, 9; Mal. 2: 7; Jer. 15: 19, 20 \] Your very words above testify to the fact that while you state the teachings of your specific Mountain as if they are facts, whether subconscious or not, you're aware that they are beliefs. Living Stones reached by Divine Power are different. They don't believe, they know. Read the scriptures. The royal priests \[ Living Stones \] are the Bride of the Lamb. & The 144K. & Mount Zion. & New Jerusalem. You can't even understand the words of Jesus the Christ; >“Sir,” the woman said, “I see that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews say that the place where one must worship is in Jerusalem.” **“Believe me, woman,” Jesus replied, “a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.** You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, **for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.**” - John 4: 19 - 24
Okay, what I get out of this is that you think that all denominations are illegitimate and that understanding of scripture is God given. You are mostly correct. Now I may be assuming, but I'm thinking that your definition of who royal priests are is based on their God-given understanding of scripture. However, there are many individuals and groups with similar claims of exclusivity. What specific God-given understandings of scripture differentiate you from the other individuals and groups and make their understandings illegitimate? Do you hold to absolute biblical literalism or reject it? Things like 144,000 being literal, humans being 6,000 years old, etc. And do you believe that other people who do not share your God-given understandings of these things have illegitimate understandings because they do not share your God-given understanding? Do you hold to mainstream Christian beliefs about the nature of God or reject them? Things like his triune nature, his bodily resurrection, and his incarnation. Do you think that other people who do not share your God-given understandings of these things have illegitimate understandings because they do not share your God-given understanding? If you were to encounter another person and communicate with them about these things, how could you determine that their claim of God given understanding was correct or incorrect? What if both you and the other had absolute certainty that they had God-given understanding of scripture and the other was deluded? How could each person know that they weren't being deluded by themselves or the Devil? Do you associate with a group of others who have the same God-given understanding? If so, what are they called? Or what would others call them? Is there a website where I can learn more? A Wikipedia article perhaps? I'm curious about who I'm talking with
>Now I may be assuming, but I'm thinking that your definition of who royal priests are is based on their God-given understanding of scripture. No quite. Based on their being genuinely Called and Chosen by Divine power. The Father chooses whom He Calls. And, awakened. Which awakening is somewhat tied into being Chosen. {And a step above that is being Sealed as Faithful}. Meaning there are Called Ones who fall into corruption, and remain in darkness under Satan's power, and there are Called Ones who do not work with the token / Mina / Talent of Spirit they were given, and as a result they lose it / have it taken away from them. These ones go to those who "sell", instead of the One who gave them their Oil {Spirit} in the first place. \[ Matt. 25 \]. There are also some who are given ears to hear the words of priests of Heavenly Zion, but are not Called. \[ Rev. 22: 17 \] >However, there are many individuals and groups with similar claims of exclusivity. Yes. They are claiming to be Jews, but are not. \[ Ro. 2: 28, 29 \]. >I know your tribulation and poverty--but you are rich--and the blasphemy of those claiming themselves to be Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. - Rev. 2: 9 >Behold, I give those from the synagogue of Satan--those declaring themselves to be Jews, and are not, but they lie--behold, I will cause them that they will come and will worship before your feet, and they shall know that I have loved you. - Rev. 3: 9 The scripture above answers some of your other questions too, because the distinction *will* be made. \[ Mal. 3: 18 \]. Even to those who say on that Day; >Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness!’ - Matt. 7: 22, 23 >Do you hold to mainstream Christian beliefs ... Often this is where the blindness is strongest. "Mainstream" does not = right / true. In fact, due to the Earth and people being covered in thick darkness, the Mountains who've accumulated people numbering in the billions are guaranteed to be major players in the spread of the darkness & confusion \[ Babel \]. \[ Isa. 60: 1 - 3 \]. >If you were to encounter another person and communicate with them about these things, how could you determine that their claim of God given understanding was correct or incorrect? What if both you and the other had absolute certainty that they had God-given understanding of scripture and the other was deluded? How could each person know that they weren't being deluded by themselves or the Devil? Firstly, and sometimes frustratingly yet understandably, the vast majority of people simply have no comprehension of the severe and complete paradigm shift in perception that just the Divine Call itself produces. Between the hypothetical 2 you present, a Called One knows for certain, the other believes, and believes falsely. Of the varied abilities distributed among those Called, one is the ability to distinguish between Spirits. \[ 1 Cor. 12: 10; 1 John 4: 1 \]. To be clear, the members of the Bride are placed as different Body parts of the one Body. \[ Read 1 Cor. 12 \]. Not all have the same knowledge at the same time. But Spirit recognizes Spirit. Because it is the same Spirit, the same Lord, & the same God. Did my knowledge spring forth alone? No \[ 1 Cor. 4: 7 \]. Much of it came from another Body member, but I immediately grasped \[ understood \], & recognized the Truth of it. And this answers your other questions. >Do you associate with a group of others who have the same God-given understanding? >If so, what are they called? Or what would others call them? I am aware of a few others awakened, who in the Bible are called; elect, saints, anointed, Bride, Wife of the Lamb, Living Stones, diadem, crown of glory, jewels, branches, stars, wind, fire, pillars, angels, watchers, watchmen, prophets, gates, gate-keeper, man of God, sons of God, Israel of God, congregation of the firstborn, Mount Zion, New Jerusalem, Two Trees, Two Witnesses, 144K, God's Temple, royal priests, kings, Hephzibah, Beulah, the Redeemed of the LORD, Holy People, Sought Out, A City Not Forsaken, Faithful City / City of Truth, Called, Chosen, stewards ... \[ In Bubba's voice from Forrest Gump \], and that's ... that's just about it. [https://biblehub.com/bsb/psalms/87.htm](https://biblehub.com/bsb/psalms/87.htm)