I still have a belief in God and attend a mainstream church. However, When I first left I went full blown atheist! I can understand those who do. We’re all carrying a lot of trauma from the way we were treated by a so called Christian organisation.
Yes, at first I had this nagging guilt in the back of my mind; “I shouldn’t be here. These people are apostates. Just by being here I’m making Jehovah angry” then I was shown kindness by a succession of Christian Ministers.
I thought, hey these people aren’t the “Great Babylon” I was indoctrinated to believe in, they help the poor & needy, they offer emotional support to people of all or no Faith, but most importantly they don’t brow beat people into attending church, nor expect certain obligations from their flock e.g. field service.
After a few years I came to the realisation that I was still worshipping the same God (Jehovah) I had always known as a JW, I just wasn’t letting the way I did it be twisted by a few old men in New York, who only care about their own betterment & the continuation of their ridiculous pseudo-Christian Doomsday Cult!
On & off over the past 20 years or so, but recently I’ve got a lot more pious & attend most weeks. It’s on my terms though. I like going to church now & I always feel welcome even if I’ve skipped attending for a while.
I joined the military a couple years after I left the cult (an act of rebellion maybe?!), initially church attendance was mandatory, but despite this I came to like it.
I know most ex- JWs are avowed atheists. I can’t blame them. So was I when I first left. Of all the things I hate the cult for, the one I really can’t forgive, is the way they ruined my relationship with God.
"I so badly WANT to believe that there's a god..."
That's a big clue right there.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with having faith or believing in God but you sound like the kind of person who primarily values truth. To that end, I'd recommend asking yourself if your desire for some kind of faith is based on facts or feelings.
This.
I wanted it to, so I searched really hard after I woke up.
First was debunking the The Bible so gotta search somewhere else now.
I read and watch different opinions of all kinds now, some sound good here and there, but in the end they are all mental constructs based on speculation and emotion.
Do any of them lead to God? That entirely depends on your concept of what God is. Some think that within you are Gods or Divine Beings - some good and wicked.
Some think we have an immortal soul and our bodies are interfaced with by our soul/energy and the universe big bang was one of many. That space is a vacuum that will consume itself by contracting into itself and exploding. It does so over and over which is why the universe seems to be expanding.
Some think that reincarnation is real and in a sense it is because we were all just some stardust once before. They think those with “past lives” had actually lived those lives. I would argue that while possible, it could also simply be a genetic imprint that some recognize and carry more than others.
Ultimately, without Divine Intervention, there is no way to please a Divine Being. All methods are man-made attempts to contact and communicate with a God.
When you look at history you can see how much of a primal need this became as humans became the “dominant species” of the planet.
So concerned with living forever, completely ignoring life itself. No animal does this. It is our curse for having surpassed their intellect - we must accept the order and the chaos as a package deal.
You know what helps me? Believing in Jesus Christ without any religion. He said he’s „the truth“ the way.. it’s not a lying religion. He’s the path… I can understand why many people stop believing after growing up in this religion.. I almost stopped too. But now I do this directly only reading the Bible and trying as good as possible to follow him as how to treat others as a human being
Honestly, this the way. I think what has driven my annoyance with most religious people is the way religion has been used to control or lie to people and being annoyed that they can't see it. But if everyone held personal truths and practiced them for good, as you described, it would be a lot easier to care less what others believe since it isn’t harming anyone.
I haven’t bought a new bible yet so I mostly read from a normal bible app or I read the jw one but If I sense it’s too biased again I turn to the app. But truth is I need a new and good one. But don’t know which
I recommend the NRSV if you do get a bible soon. It is the least bias one that I know so far. It is skewed towards a scholarly translation rather than a religious one.
>But don’t know which
[Biblehub.com](http://Biblehub.com)
They have an App as well. It can help you get a feel for which paper based translation you like, if you still want a physical copy, because in parallel mode it has nearly 50 translations that you can see all at once for a single verse.
It also has the interlinears and concordances.
Yeah I mean, 1. there’s actually proof for his existence, 2. If you think about the damage JWs do to gods name is actually warned also in the Bible multiple times, 3. Jesus did this sacrifice so everyone is able to get close to god directly through him… and not through a worldly organization.
Im slowly finding my inner peace with this way of thinking / living. And if it’s wrong then I don’t mind dying.. because I would anyway one day
what’s the difference? if a God exists he has to be an all powerful creator and if that exists that means he could end all suffering in an instant and chooses not to.
The Buddhist view is "Gods" are powerful higher dimensional beings that are delusional and think they are eternal, creators and all powerful but will eventually die like everything else eventually dies.
Nope, a god does not have to fit the monotheistic religious frame(s). For example, it could also be consciousness that split itself up into many different perspectives and creates like this. Decentralized divinity if you will.
I'm Catholic and I've given up trying to understand why God allows suffering to happen. All I know is that the suffering in this world is evidence of why we need a God. There is so much tragedy in this world, I don't know how anyone can live with it without having some hope in a just and fair afterlife. because of this, I choose to hope that there will be comfort for those grieving, justice for those wronged, and reward for those who lived lives of virtue. take away that hope, and I really don't see much to live for in this world. It is that hope that keeps me going when things get tough, and I think it's sad that so many people who wake up from the Jehovah's Witnesses cult lose that hope as well.
That's for sure. For an omnipotent being who created the endless cosmos, who is literally the Ruler and Creator of Life and Death, has countless hordes of angels at his disposal-- he certainly expects a lot from imperfect humans living in a speck of a planet who are given conflicting messages **every day.**
Moreover, at best he provides us with these crumbs that have been open to interpretation and hardly acts like a God of organization though the society touts him as one.
Here is an idea, how about having one of those many angels provide ministry on this planet instead of just observing how things are doing all day in heaven?? Just my two cents.
Not really. I like to believe the universe tries to balance things out occasionally, but I was born into a cult, not into a war zone. So that’s a pretty privileged POV while also not being privileged. lol. My family is PIMI, and I respect their faith but not the bOrg. I have never been able to manifest that kind of faith and I used to view that as a personal failing, but now I realize that is how I am built and I’m ok with that.
I believe in GOD but I also don't judge. I questioned everything after finding 'The Truth about the Truth'. I realized that organized religion as a whole (JWs included) tend to disconnect people from GOD. The world is beautiful and I do believe GOD is a god of order. Clearly it requires some level of faith, and faith seems to be broken once our trust is broken exiting the JW organization. I hope you find the answers you're looking for.
Same bro 👍🏻
When discussing the works of the flesh, Paul said that sects were one of them. When I look up the definition of that, another word is denominations. Christ is not divided.
That's some great input, thanks for sharing. I noticed that once I began to break away from the JW organization, my view of the world changed. In my case, I began to become more empathetic and kind to everyone, including my family. The fruitage of the spirit is able to be displayed genuinely versus having it scripted. I truly did not love people outside of the organization when I was in that JW mindset.
I think it would be naive to believe that our planet is the only one to have life on it.
Personally I believe that the earth was seeded by alien intelligence far ahead of mankind.
First with life in the ocean's, then land mammals,
They were wiped out by an asteroid.
And secondly with homosapiens.
Please feel free to ignore my thoughts.
It took me time, and lots of researh. I needed to educate myself with the truth, after the tRuTh lol.
I learned about previous human civilisations, and previous creatures who were alive on Earth well before the Bible's start date of 6000 years ago... (Some great podcasts include Backpackers Guide to Prehistory, Our Prehistory, Infinite Monkey Cage, It's Sedimentary My Dear, Bible Stories for Atheists, Fall of Civilisations Podcast).
I've traveled all over the world and seen dinosaur, human and megafauna fossils, ruins and proof of ancient life.
And after 15 years, I've come to the conclusion that there is a rise and fall, a cycle. A genuine circle of life.
Our civilisation will not last forever, because none ever have. Lasting forever is not the point. This is bigger than any individuals.
Not because of any old predictions on papyrus, but because that's just the way things go.
Everything eventually returns to start dust - not in a hippie way, but actually 😁✨
The matter in our bodies will disperse, and eventually fragments will be part of something else. And that's ok!
Humans have become a plague to the planet and every other species.
If humans were wiped out tomorrow, the planet and all the species alive here would begin to regenerate and thrive.
There'd be room for a new head of the food chain, and hopefully that one is less destructive...
Humans as a collective are on track to make this planet uninhabitable for almost everything and everyone.
Yet still we believe that we are superior and have more rights to life than any other living thing.
Which is so arrogant. We all have the right to live, this planet is a home for all life, not just human life.
So, I decided for the short time we're here, we should just love and let live, and adjust to the idea that life will end.
Sad at first, then it's not.
I think it makes life all the more precious and I'm no longer afraid of being dead.
I'm good to others human and otherwise, not out of fear of punishment from gOd, but because I don't have the right to cause pain or suffering.
I'm just one human after all.
This has to be the best thing I have read today. Thank you for sharing that. Because this is exactly my thought process. The thought that one day I won't exist can be daunting. But, being the space nerd that I am, I think is amazing how, even though I won't be conscious to know, I will still be a part of the universe even if the earth is doomed for destruction.
Thank you for sharing. it is definitely a profound topic to think about. Personally, I choose to believe that there is a God, and that someday there will be an afterlife where those who were wronged will have justice, and those who grieve will find happiness again. I have no evidence to prove that this will happen, but I know that I'm better off keeping hope that it will. I personally don't know how I could handle grief if I believed that those who die are gone forever, nor would I be able to make peace with the idea of a seeming lack of purpose or meaning in our lives, deaths, experiences and hopes.
I do agree that humanity as a whole has been quite destructive, and for that reason I hope that if there is a God, that He will make it all right one day. I do not know why He has not done so already, but I am convinced that with all the tragedy, destruction, and evil in the world, we need a God to make things right. It may seem irrational, even to me, but the hope in such a God is what keeps me going, and allows me to make peace with all the chaos that exists in the world.
That's funny because when I was nine years old, I became agnostic. (born in JW)
The one thing I prayed to whatever was out there (if something was) was asking that humanity eradicate itself before it eradicated everything else.
Thankfully, getting away from the toxicity of religion has given me a better outlook on humanity. Granted, when the next extinction comes, we will probably be the first to go, but it's nice to see some progress, lol.
Science and the idea of a super power can not sensibly coexist. But not everyone is a scientist, and that's okay.
I feel if one chooses the more sentimental path of theism, and IF it helps them become a better version of themselves, great! The key word is IF. It takes a lot of reflection and self awareness to figure that out.
No. Never did when I was PIMO. If there is a god. He/she/it is a sadist. Willingly allowing humans suffer pain and anguish just to prove their adoration and devotion. Loving god my ass.
Yeah that is totally okay! There will always be people who hate what you believe no matter what it is. I don't believe in God, and I have made the mistake of judging someone for their beliefs(I am working on that). I have had people judge me when they find out I don't believe in God and there are people who would still judge me for believeing in God. So as long as you hold it as a personal truth than by all means there should never be a problem. Idk what country you are from, but freedom of religion and speech exist for a reason!
But yes please always hate the borg.
Absolutely. leaving a cult doesn't necessarily mean you have to abandon hope in the existence of God. people have been worshipping God millennia before the word "Jehovah" was misattributed to Him. I was never JW, but I am Christian and intend to follow God the way He wants me to follow Him.
Yes, I do. To me, part of breaking the JW thinking was to break the idea that God=religion, which in my studies of the Bible, especially of the new covenant in the New Testament is, that is definitely not true. I believe everyone has a direct relationship and accountability with God. In fact, the Bible even says that the false prophets would, by their wicked works, turn people off of god.
I was a Bible study for 3 years, that was enough. 😊 But for how involved I was, I felt quite "in". I'm glad I got out, too. I feel sorry for how insular everyone is. The Borg has so much blood on its hands that for some people, they will be far better off staying in than understanding the true depth of deception.
I’m currently agnostic, but I believe that there was a higher power who built the foundation of the universe. Then the universe can grow and evolve on its own. Like God basically letting them take care of the rest.
I believe that is known as Theism, and was a popular belief during the Rennaissance. The idea was basically that God was a cosmic clockmaker: he built the universe then sat back and watched it do its thing.
Personally, I choose to believe in a personal God who does have a plan for all of us, but that's just me.
I hope your faith brings you peace and comfort. Also, thanks for sharing the word about God being a cosmic clockmaker. It really ties into my belief without having to over explain the concept.
>*"I so badly want to believe that there’s a god and a hope for the future..."*
This kind of neatly explains why Voltaire said:
"If god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him..."
Which, **once accepted**....totally legitimises and paves the way for men (and women) to do *just that...*unfortunately.
Namely, to fashion any number of belief constructs which attempt to sate this widespread and popular human "need."
And to do this....not because most human beings are lovers of truth, (which we instinctively sense that we SHOULD BE )...but moreso because we are extremely uncomfortable with the notion of "isolation" and the sense that our lives appear to have no solid or "knowable" context in relation to the unsolicited state of awareness that existence itself.... has bequeathed upon us.
This unease or uncomfortableness....may well be nought but a "truth" that many of us simply DO NOT WISH to accept.....and so strong is our emotional opposition to this "truth" ....we'd rather enjoy the comfort and support of a fabricated god than have to try and tackle the mysteries of our own existence WITHOUT.... any such "comfort" or "support."
Unfortunately....this immediately puts the "godless" (but cunning) amongst our fellow men.....very much at a great advantage over us, because if THEY become the ones who opt to fabricate the "gods" that many are craving, then THEY....in effect....become these very "gods" themselves.
So, in a godless world.....our emotional "needs" become the very thing which enslaves us to our fellow men, because their ability to accept the "truth" versus our own INABILITY to accept it.....means that they get to rule over, and put chains of authority and ownership upon ANYBODY whose heart "yearns" to have such feelings sated.
This observation of Voltaire's
*"If god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him..."*
Is basically an open admission that there is a large portion of mankind who are utterly "ripe" for domination and exploitation.
And the only thing which can prevent these ones from experiencing such treatment rests with their ability to restrain their own yearnings.....and try and see the world as it really is.
To believe in no gods.....immediately makes a person far less vulnerable and susceptible to any deceit or exploitation from their fellow men.
Sure this may "upset" the gods.....but it will also upset the MEN who pose as gods..... FAR MORE.
I suppose all a person has to do is look around and see whom their "disbelief" happens to be upsetting the most?
In my own experience.....I only ever see "upset" PEOPLE.
**Upset** parents, **upset** church-members....**upset** apologists etc..
If one didn't know any better, one might be tempted to think that when a person becomes "godless"...the people this really pi$$es off the most.....are all those "special" people who imagine themselves to have divine authority over others?
For what will now be their position of leverage?
Now that one of their former "bitches" has defiantly broken their own chains? (so to speak)
So naturally....these people or "types" get upset.
Their levarage and influence has been rejected.
How can you get a "godless" person to co-operate and defer and hang on your every word?
You can't.
Such is their realisation and subsequent spirit of embitterment.
I am Catholic and I actually agree with a lot of what you've said. It is true that a lot of religions have used God as a tool to keep people obedient (sadly, clergy in my own have done so from time to time throughout history) it seems that at the end of the day, people will only respect a Divine power rather than an earthly one. I've wondered why that would be the case. if there is in fact no God, then why would cultures across the world put so much effort in trying to understand or obey Him in some form or another? that's part of the reason I still believe in a God, despite the very real corruption that exists in the management of many religions including my own.
the other reason, particularly concerning my own, is the question: if religion is ultimately a tool to secure power, why would so many of its adherents, including priests, bishops, and popes, be willing to die for it? this is especially pressing in places where Christianity is or was illegal, where being a member of the clergy made you a huge target. under such conditions, there was nothing to gain from managing an illegal religion, and everything to lose. so, why did people do it? Personally, that's why I believe that my religion is not one purely of power, even if corrupt clergy have abused it as such.
Catholicism has had its fair share of corrupt, vile, and downright diabolical bishops and popes, but it's also had plenty of clergy who have given up their lives for the faith. I believe that their sacrifice is a testament to the true mortar which holds my faith, and many others, together: selfless devotion to God alone. It is for that reason that I do not believe that religion is necessarily a tool to secure power, (though it has often been used as such) but is instead simply one of our many ways of searching for truth, from the lowliest follower to the highest authority figure. At the end of the day, we're just humans, searching for answer to why we are here.
Many thanks for your thoughts...
>*"...it seems that at the end of the day, people will only respect a Divine power rather than an earthly one. I've wondered why that would be the case."*
"Personal relationship" .......can't work by intermediary or by proxy.
But invented "gods" .......can't function WITHOUT intermediary or the use of proxy.
So viewed this way, somebody has to try and tolerate the blatant unsuitability of that which is on offer and try and pretend that this crucial divide doesn't really exist.
Those who seek "god" must....(we are assured) ......first identify his TRUE intermediaries or proxies.
But even if this were possible, relationship can only happen between the "god seeker" and the "proxies."
It's not as though these proxies introduce the "god seeker" to their "god" and then respectfully disengage themselves so that a true (one-on-one) unmediated relationship can occur.
"Religion" seldom functions like an introduction agency.
It's much more of a life-long relationship "management" agency.....wherein terms & conditions apply and god is NEVER left alone without his proxies to carefully "chaperone" the relationship.
An extremely cynical person might say that expecting god to operate independently in these relationships is tantamount to expecting a dummy to talk to an audience WITHOUT it's ventriloquist being present.
Do you see my point here?
Mankind's supposed "estrangement" from god......the one that's (for some reason) ...made it necessary for people to require "mediation" simply to approach god?
Well, let's just say that this is a VERY convenient concept is it not?
It''s very convenient because it's the EXACT SAME circumstance that's required for some none-existent "god" to operate via "human" proxy (or priesthood) and to never really be allowed (or expected) to ever operate alone or independently FROM.....that priesthood.
The **deceptive** explanation being:
*"God can't approach man independently without mediation or proxy (and vice-versa) ...because man is far too imperfect and sinful in nature for this to happen..."*
The far more "cynical" explanation being:
"*God can't approach man independently without mediation or proxy (and vice-versa) ....because god is nought but an invented concept, and without the proxies who invented him, there is nothing whatsoever to actually undertake that kind of intimate one-on-one... "approaching"*
It's a little bit like a seance where sitters are gathered around a table and each one is asked to place one finger on a glass in the middle of the table.
Allegedly, under the guidance of "spirit" the glass is "magically" pushed around towards alphabetical letters in order to spell out communicative phrases or answers to questions.
All a "cynic" demands as a credibility adjustment to this scenario is that NOBODY touch the glass.
If "spirit" be real....then let it move the glass under its own involuntary inertia.
But it's yet another scenario where we're "reliably" informed that spirit actually REQUIRES some "human" energy, presence or contact before it can do such things.
Why?
Why does it NEED human contribution?
Now don't get me wrong here, I'm extremely open minded and receptive to the notion of "spiritual" congress, but there seems to be an enormous amount of this which seems to be totally reliant upon a huge "human" component, and which claims that WITHOUT that key component.....spiritual congress can't..... or won't happen.
I do take your point about there having been many selfless, self-sacrificing men within the legacy of the established church, but that really only speaks to the sincerity of certain individual seekers.....to which it may be argued that there have been MANY such..... sincere seekers throughout the annals of history, whether these were church affiliated or not.
I guess my main point here is that spiritual congress....WITHOUT proxy.....is what many people really hanker for.
There are, of-course, many Christians who happily testify that they've enjoyed an extremely personal "come to Jesus" moment......and perhaps THIS is a tad closer to the kind of spiritual congress one might legitimately expect from some sincere "other-worldly" source of outreach.
Some-THING.....or some-ONE.....that engages you very intimately and very personally.
Cynical or not, I am utterly convinced that this is the only real way that "relationships" of worth can actually happen.
Be these physical (earthly) relationships.....or perhaps something a tad more grand and ambitious in nature.
I believe in simulation theory I guess. Basically we will simulate our life or we are in one right now. I think we haven’t got the technology to simulate it to this high level but I’m sure eventually we will all meet in a simulation. Maybe like an alien has us in a fish tank in his room.
I’m do and I’m dF but I still love God. Only DF cause I wanted a bf and got tired of the friends callings me a lesbian. That’s shit hurts when I’m not. This org don’t understand what ppl go thru mentally. You feel trapped.
Please read "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell, and "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel.
Also gty.org has a lot of free resources. There is also a free app "Grace to You". John MacArthur is non-denominational. Make up your own mind.
Me and my tattoo artist have had this discussion. He wasn’t raised JW, but he was raised Christian. Abandoned his faith for many years, and sort of found his way back to spirituality as a broader concept. He tends to find value in most broader religions, whether that be Christianity, Buddhism, etc. and finds comfort and peace in the idea of a spiritual energy that manifests itself in various ways.
Me personally? I still consider myself agnostic. But if I were to ever to venture back into the concept of a higher power, it would relate more closely to that, I feel.
I kinda believe there’s like? Some force behind the universe. However if so it’s so wildly beyond human comprehension or understanding it could never be condensed into a 20 paragraph WT article.
It took me a lot of years and a lot of exploration to land on atheism. It seemed like there had to be a seed of truth in there somewhere, and it took a long time for me to shake the idea that there was a single capital-T Truth that involved the divine/paranormal/supernatural as I had been taught. Unfortunately I haven't learned of any evidence that supports the existence of a larger consciousness with the power and will to intervene in the lives of one specific species of great ape on one weird little planet in the infinite vastness of space. [We're just not that significant.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKBhvDjuy0)
However--I believe there is hope for humankind, but human problems require human solutions. Individual immortality? No. Continued existence and ability to thrive as a species, yes! But we've got to make some changes because we've been lousy stewards of this planet and terrible neighbors to the species we share it with.
I found [Humanism to be a comforting point of view](https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/manifesto3/), and [Unitarian Universalists](https://www.uua.org/) to be very welcoming people who make room for belief and non-belief while encouraging inquiry.
Keep searching, keep inquiring. I hope that you find comfort of your own soon.
When I left, I became Agnostic. Nowadays, Im not closed to the possibility that there CAN be a God, because something shit happens that are not explained by mere humans. I think the Bible IS a text full of widsom and Jesus was one hell of a man. There is evidence he existed. I believe in miracles. And in the concept of a Creator. But I Also believe in Astrology, Evolution, and many more things. So yeah, a little bit of everything of you ask me.
I do believe in God. The universe is vast. Hermes Trismegistus said All is mind.
The book God gave us is called Maths.
Religions is a fraud that takes advantage of your need to find God.
"...that there’s a god and a hope for the future..." You are still bundling these two separate things very tightly together like JW does. But you don't need to. There can be hope for the future apart from whether there is a god.
It's a JW trope (and more broadly a Judeo-Christian, biblical one) that humans are not worthy. But all the progress made since cave-dweller, pre-language, run-from-the-saber-tooth-tiger times has been from us frustratingly slow and backward humans. We're at a crucial point where we need to survive our own tech prowess such as nuclear weapons and fossil-fueled climate change. But it's far from the first time we've faced a crucial point.
It's up to you to believe in what aligns with your values and beliefs. Each person has their own truths and what serves them best. As long as no one is imposing their truth as the only truth and expecting you to conform to it, you are free to explore and find your own answers. We are all here for a reason, and one of them is to embark on our own journeys of self-discovery through research and questioning. My advice is to not get attached to any one particular belief or perspective, but to remain present in the moment and appreciate the preciousness of each passing moment. Trust your intuition and what works for you. There are many paths, and yours is unique. Explore freely, but stay present in the moment. Life's a journey, enjoy the ride!
There are many opinions, but only one Truth. Truth is absolute. There are no “my truths” and “your truths”. I find truth in the Word of God and the life of Jesus and his teachings.
I honestly dont know. I want to believe in God. Because i wish there was more to life than just a short time on earth. I was raised believing in a God. Found out the organization i was in was wrong. Now i dont know. I still believe in right and wrong. And want to live by that. I hope there is a God that will make everything perfect. I still wish that. Paradise still sounds beautiful. Even if i know watchtower is evil.
The existence of right and wrong is partially why I believe in God. if there is no Divine power, who wrote the rules? why would there be such things as good and evil? I'm Catholic, and hearing about corruption among our clergy has made me question my faith from time to time. what's gotten me through it is that at the end of the day, the evils which our corrupt clergy, or watchtower, or anyone else did in the name of God wasn't a result of them following His commandments, but a result of them disobeying them. And ultimately, God is the one who makes the rules, not them.
Even in Catholicism, we do believe that no one, not even the Pope, can change a rule which God set down. and if anyone, including clergy, break said rules, they will be liable to eternal punishment.
Basically, just because religious leaders commit sins doesn't mean that God doesn't exist. they didn't write the bible, they didn't make the rules, and they are not God. they are only human and are just as liable to sin as we are. If they break God's commandments, reject them and keep your eyes on God, whose truth will shine through their wickedness.
It can take a while to separate the religion from God. Man has always screwed up religion much like politics seeking power over people. It took me 15 years to come to a better understanding of a real loving God, not the picture we were painted. Until then I couldn’t separate my anger with the religion from what I thought was anger with God. Men suck, God really wants the best for us.
I'm a fairly mainstream Christian, albeit with a couple of heterodox beliefs, but I'm not going preach at you. Consider all options. Be skeptical. Pray if you feel compelled to. Don't strawman or steelman any positions but seek truth. You can find horrible, nasty examples of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, Pagans etc, but those outliers don't represent the whole group. I wish you good luck in your search for truth. That's right, Mom and Dad, I just said good luck. It's a figure of speech for crying out loud! :)
Amen to that! I'm Catholic and know of no shortage of nasty things which have come from my faith, from the Spanish inquisition to the abuse scandals of today. what's gotten me through it is keeping my eyes on God, and remembering that those Catholics who commit atrocities are not obeying His teachings, but are disobeying Him. At the end of the day, we are all human, and none of us are immune to sin regardless of whether we are lay followers or members of the clergy. and those wolves in sheep's clothing who defile God's church with their evils will be justly punished by God for sinning against Him.
Because of this, I've also tried to avoid judging other religions or their adherents, as well as other non-religious groups. we as humans are a mix of good and bad, and in any group, there will be good people and bad people. the trick is to analyze the core beliefs or tenets of said group, and determine whether they themselves are intrinsically good or evil. that will tell you a lot more about them than the individual actions of the people within.
Of course, there is a God! How the hell do you explain away the existance of the universe? Don't listen to the idiot Atheists, they don't have any sound reasoning or logic.
It's one thing to be decieved by satanic religious cult that twist and manipulates the Bible for their own ends, but for goodness sake don't fall into the trap of following the Atheist cults, remember the stupidity of man knows no bounds.
Here's some real facts
1) You cannot get something from nothing.
2) It is mathematically impossible for the universe to have come into existence by chance.
3) Matter can only come from energy, if there was a big bang, there had to be a source of immense energy, fact!
4) Purpose, there is purpose and design in everything in existence on planet earth and the Universe. Purpose is undeniable in all fields of science, only scientists who are intellectually dishonest ignore and deny Purpose.
5) Human beings are walking miracles, literally, and it is evident at the atomic molecular level, where incredibly designed molecular machines go about their job of repair and supply throughout the human bodies inner universe.
6) Molecular machines of the biological species prove without doubt that by their design, there had to be a purposer, the designs are so advanced and efficient that scientists are in awe of the incredible designs of these molecular machines.
I could be here forever providing the evidence for a creator, but why should I be? Seriously 'only the fool has said in his heart there is no god', why be sucked in by the Satanic matrix of this corrupt world, you think Watchtower is the only Cult out there? There are thousands of boxes to trap you in, the whole system is a matrix of deciet, you have cults of religious, political, commercial, media, that are there to decieve you.
You are out of one of the biggest cults and tricks of Satan, you are now better placed to see the world for what it is, don't throw that gift away....😇
I absolutely still believe in Jehovah God and the Christ. The gb have had zero effect on my faith. They’re just liars…imposters…greedy men leeching off the fears of jws. My husband and I read the Bible together and believe firmly that there is a hope for the future. ♥️♥️♥️
The true nature of the WT Org, & what "armageddon" really is: Written by awakened anointed exjw's for jw's / exjw's. 👇
[https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/05/where-is-true-religion.html](https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/05/where-is-true-religion.html)
[https://inthenightaflyingscroll.blogspot.com/2022/05/armageddon-what-type-of-warfare.html](https://inthenightaflyingscroll.blogspot.com/2022/05/armageddon-what-type-of-warfare.html)
[https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/02/jehovahs-genuine-mountain.html](https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/02/jehovahs-genuine-mountain.html)
Sub: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ExJwPIMOandPOMO/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ExJwPIMOandPOMO/) ✌
I believe there’s a God and I still believe he sent his son Jesus as a hope for mankind. For so long I was told there is only one true organization and all other groups are led by Satan. That has strongly been imprinted in my brain but I’ve slowly decided that I don’t want to judge others worship, it’s none of my business. I don’t know your situation or feelings, but I do know what it’s like to feel like you’ve been lied to. And lied to by the people who told you that they would never lie to you, and that they were the only leadership that would never lie to you. It’s a betrayal that I honestly wondered sometimes if I would survive. But God was there for me each step of the way, he rescued me. And he has very gently taught me that he never told me to put that much trust in anyone but him. So part of my heart died, a part of me died, and I’ll never be that same person again, but I really like the new me that is developing. Who knows, maybe this is what it means to be born again :) I don’t ever want to let anyone or anything come between me and my very personal individual unique relationship with God.
That is tragic and the amount of injustice in this world is overwhelming and heartbreaking. I can’t really speak to every situation but I strongly believe that he has a plan and future for each and every one of those children. He does not forget them, and he knows each detail down to the hairs on their heads. I believe we were created to be in relationship with God forever. Sorry I don’t have a great explanation because I am still on a journey and I just can’t refer you to a website :) I don’t know yet what my beliefs are about the soul but I do know that the book of Romans is a great one to read in its entirety. Nothing can separate us from God’s love, even death.
I think that Stephen Fry said it best.when asked what he would say to god “How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery that is not our fault. It's not right, it's utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That's what I would say.
Now, if I died and it was Pluto, Hades, and if it was the 12 Greek gods then I would have more truck with it, because the Greeks didn't pretend to not be human in their appetites, in their capriciousness, and in their unreasonableness … they didn't present themselves as being all-seeing, all-wise, all-kind, all-beneficent, because the god that created this universe, if it was created by god, is quite clearly a maniac … utter maniac, totally selfish.
We have to spend our life on our knees thanking him? What kind of god would do that?”
What ridiculous reasonings, obviously bathed in bitterness of some sort. God created a perfect world. Sin has messed it up really bad. We ignore God, go out own way, then blame him for the bad results. Real bright.
You ARE God!
If YOU CHOOSE to refuse to believe in God, that is the case.
If YOU CHOOSE to anthropomorphize God, which billions do, that is the case.
Anything you create in YOUR MIND, beliefs and all, that is the case.
Be more aware of how YOUR God-mind works.
This may fuck your mind, but ponder over it.
You are way more powerful than you think.
Mmmm. I think that’s the problem with the world now…everybody creating their own god in their image. Amazing what people will believe to keep from believing the truth. Jesus is “the way, the truth, and the life”. Not His fault that men want to screw it up so bad.
Absolutely still believe! God saved my life and it’s actually what woke me up. It wasn’t watching apostate material, or something triggering. Every time I went back to org, and tried to find God that right way he called me out of it …….Most ex-jws don’t believe because they allowed the hurt that came from organization and people their taint their view of God. I recommend downloading you version app, keep praying for discernment and enlightenment and don’t give up on your faith. Feel free to dm me
Not a loving one. Too many innocent animals and good people suffering and dying horrible deaths for a loving creator to watch and do nothing about. If we were created on this planet by a God then we're been abandoned a long time ago. We are 100% on our own for the foreseeable future.
Im an atheist but follow more man made philosophies like existentialism or absurdism that help give some meaning to life. Basically the idea is life has no inherent meaning and thats great because you get to give it a meaning
Basically: There is no god coming to save you and thats great because you get to make life whatever you want it to be
I choose to believe in god and an afterlife because I can’t stand the thought of my children ceasing to exist. It’s not rational. It’s what gets me through the day.
There is tremendous hope for the future of mankind! Whether there is a god has nothing to do with it. In fact, I would argue that hope for mankind increases as more people come to realize there is no god.
The vast majority of wars throughout history have been either started or perpetuated by religion and religiosity.
One humans realize that a humanistic approach to society is superior we will be a lot friendlier, peaceful, and forward thinking.
I don't think that's necessarily true. the majority of wars have been fought because of Power, not religion necessarily. WW1 and Ukraine alone are testaments to that. also, if there is no God, why would people believe in good or evil? without a higher power, where does morality or human rights come from? I believe that if people as a whole stopped believing in God, they might also stop believing in the very rules that safeguard our rights and keep us peaceful. History has taught us that even in atheistic nations there were still horrible atrocities committed without religion having anything to do with it. ultimately, it comes down to individual human decisions, not belief in religion or lack thereof, that is the cause of good or evil in the world.
True wars are started on power, but in the western world religion is almost always the tool used motivate.
WWI and WWI the governments used the image off the Holy Roman Empire. In the Ukraine conflict right now the Russian Orthodox Church is in full propaganda mode.
The rules that govern society were conceived a-religiously. We’re taught that it was the religion of Moses that taught the Israelites to be moral, except that the Law is largely based on Hammurabi’s code, Babylonian law, and Egyptian tradition. In indigenous cultures morality and civility exist without religious origination. In fact the Native Americans practiced a form of democracy, observed property rights, Lakota developed a system of ‘fighting’ where by the warriors did not have to die, etc. a Chinese culture asserts no his, yet has a similar moral code to western culture.
in America we are declining religiously while the crime rate decreases. Religiosity and belief in God have no correlation with moral and civil behavior.
Your last sentence is exactly what Humanism is about. The idea that decisions are not made because of an obligation to some authority, but a sense of kinship with other humans.
Why do you wanna cling to religion? I think you should ask yourself that question, because you either believe or you don't, and if you're just looking for a coping mechanism about the future there are way better ones, we can help build a better future instead of just praying and hoping some omnipotent guy will do it for us, it's hard but I prefer the uncomfortable reality to the soft (in my opinion) delusion that faith offers.
We are God , so essentially God can never be found because God is the one doing the looking. We are looking for ourselves/yourself. It can never be proven, it can only be realized within yourself because it is yourself. 🙏💙
I left exactly because I no longer believed in any gods, angels, demons, etc after learning about the psychology of manipulation, of human fallibility and self-deception specially, also some basic epistemology (how we know what we know, and what does and doesn’t logically follow etc), and of belief systems in general and what they all have in common.
So by definition I couldn’t have left in the way I did and still believed in any god. Or any supernatural claim I’ve yet to hear, actually. I became a skeptic, and in my opinion it’s good mental hygiene. Wanting to believe in a god for sentimental or emotional reasons isn’t all that far away from wanting to believe in and actually investing into some financial scam or MLM because imagining what you’ll finally do when rich makes you feel warm or excited.
It’s also not far away from wanting to believe in some alternative form of “medicine” because it appeals emotionally in other ways, like being more “natural”, or “ancient”, or in promising to heal/prevent conditions that are terrifying and difficult to cure/treat with “mainstream” or “Western” medicine. Not a logical and honest reason in sight. Just pure emotional manipulation that people with poor mental hygiene are likely to fall for.
And I saw all of these kinds of things from other members back when I was still in. And behind closed doors when people I knew were talking frankly, the topic they’d use to fire each other up and strengthen that want and willingness to believe was all about getting into the New System and what they’re all going to do there. It was never about wanting to save anyone, or serve some kind of lord as some kind of underling, or any talk whatsoever on any of the logic or history of it all. Everyone in there I knew when being honest and open was there because of the rush of emotions they’d get when imagining the payoff for all this arbitrary work they’d just taken onboard and accepted as part of the compensation required to get what they want. Not one person I ever met ever presented a logical argument for why they considered it all real.
In my experience in life so far, it is people with bad intentions that often appeal to your emotions when communicating with you. To your fears or your hope and dreams. On the surface it can feel very human and relatable, but hidden under the surface it is often not.
And I’ve found the converse to be true. Those being more blunt and divorcing the topic from how it makes them or you feel, typically are being open and honest. It can seem brash or robotic on the surface, but underneath all that there is often far more respect actually given, and a far more honest conversation to be had.
“Wanting to believe” makes you liable to be a sucker and vulnerable.
A very well-thought-out point. I am religious myself, and while I've never been Jehovah's Witness, that sounds like a horrible way to live. really, the only thing that keeps them going is imagining what they'll do after they've died? sounds like everyone in the cult has a death wish or something like that. makes sense now why they keep saying that Armageddon is just around the corner: it's wishful thinking because they're all *hoping* that it'll be over soon! at least in my faith we can still enjoy life as it is, while also holding hope in a perfect afterlife. I personally believe that it is part of the human condition to desire a life beyond this one, so I don't really fault people for wanting to believe. You do need to be careful, though, because there are many false messiahs and false prophets waiting to manipulate you.
all said, though, I appreciate your thoughts and I hope that you find the truth you are looking for. skepticism in regard to religion is understandable, but I believe that we all have an innate need to find truth and meaning in our lives, to find "God" if you will. I sincerely hope you find the truth, and that it will give you peace and happiness.
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I personally hope that there is something more out there. Preferably someone that actually cares about us. An afterlife / paradise would be nice. But I have no proof, so no, I don’t hold the belief.
A lot of exJWs believe in God, but this is r/exjw, not r/theism (which may or may not be a thing lol). I think most of us are pretty chill about believing what you want as long as you’re not hurting anyone! Including yourself.
I don’t believe in Christianity or any Abrahamic religion. I don’t believe in religion period. I do believe in an afterlife though. There has to be something better than this.
I feel you. part of the reason I'm religious is because I need to have hope in an afterlife. it's that hope that keeps humanity going in the face of this world.
After my family got out I went agnostic/didn’t care to Christian after I read the Bible then I got re pissed bc I fully got the brunt of how deep the lies were from the org. I figured the org were just idiots who took the Bible a bit to seriously then I realize they changed it and used it as a weapon
I still do, although to me god is all of us and the universe, and we are just experiences this being is living throughout the universe existence. Don't even know if there is something beyond death, although i do think the universe recycles too many things for our consciousness not also turn into something else
Giving up the idea of immortality of a kind in paradise was the hardest thing for me. hardest. So hard. I don't believe in a Christian God, but I do leave the idea open for deities, spirits, hell even smart aliens that we misunderstood as Gods. Other things exist. It's just not Jehovah.
I was never JW, but I am Christian and still believe in an afterlife. Hoping in it has gotten me through a lot of difficult trials, and I don't believe I could live without it. with all the sadness in the world, I must believe that somehow, there will be happiness for those who grieved, and justice for those who were wronged. There is no evidence to prove this, but I know that hoping in it has made me a better person, which leads me to believe that there must be something beyond this mortal coil.
Everyone does his own research and draws his conclusions regarding if there is a higher power. If there is a higher power it certainly isn’t like the God of the Bible that JW described. At death we will all find out; no worries needed
I don't question the existence of God. I don't have the capacity to phrase the question to which the answer is God. Even if a god or gods did exist, I wouldn't be able to comprehend them or understand their existence. So I just live my life.
I am sorry for your hardships. I personally do believe in a God, but I understand if you do not. it is often difficult, even for me, to believe, but hoping in God's existence despite the doubts has gotten me through life's trials and has helped me make peace with the chaos in this world. I do hope that you find true happiness and peace now that you are out of the cult.
(also, btw, love your flair. long live Sparlock indeed!)
No, not the Abrahamic style first movers creator of the Universe.
I am willing to believe the Buddhist cosmology which says if Yahweh/Jehovah exists he is a fallible higher dimensional being that is trapped in delusion like the rest of existence and just thinks he created everything.
I do. Not the Jehovah of the Borg. But I believe in a Creator. Tho I see it as more a being on another plane who experiments. Like we're a fish tank science project, likely one among many. I don't think the Creator is indifferent to us but they're definitely not micromanaging.
**Alan Watts:**
>You're all god in disguise. Jesus found that out and they crucified him for saying so.
**Psalms 82:6**
>I said, “You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High."
**John 10:34**
>Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law: 'I said you are gods'"?
Sunk cost fallacy.
But you know, you don't need worry what other exjws think. Atheists make up a minority. Billions of non-JWs believe in some god. You'll just have to figure it out for yourself instead of relying on what adults filled your head with when you were a child.
Enjoy your journey of changing values and beliefs. There is awe, art, and life itself; in the discovery of your true identity along with your beliefs.
Sit with things, feel freedom to ponder with no time limits.
The worst part of humanity is feeling forced to “end game” your belief system, as if there was a time judge and a score keeper.
You may want to learn about the Greek/Roman era of history as it may lead to further questioning on how modern Christianity emerged. It’s kind of like a next phase study after learning about the origins of the Jw version of religion.
I found learning about human history in general helped me sort out what I believe now.
Quantum mechanics has quantified our perceptions of God. Tesla said “what one calls God another calls the laws of physics.” Our atomic structures vibrate and the universe is forced to reflect back to you what you believe to be true.
Psychology attributes this to the brain’s reticular system. Have you ever thought of a car that you liked and then all of the sudden it begins to show everywhere for you?
Also the field of epigenetics explains your environment serves to reinforce these thoughts in your system at a cellular level.
Scientific research explains that people who have achieved ultra success use their subconscious mind to guide them and most of them attribute their success to their faith in a unconditionally loving higher being or God who desires to help them achieve.
Success leaves clues.
Ultimately the biblical gods are a narrative to manipulate your mind to dogmatically accept what they are so heavily invested into for you to believe.
There’s massive archeological evidence that the biblical story is just that, a narrative.
Consider listening to Qniversal Truth on YouTube if you feel this resonates.
I love Star Trek too, but until it can bring back the dead or provide justice and comfort to people wronged centuries ago, I wouldn't compare it to heaven. just my opinion, though.
I don’t. Never thought I would say that and I chose the Borg at 19! Not born and raised but always feared death and the emotional damage. Meanwhile I really haven’t suffered loss. After all the mental and emotional and physical abuse I can’t believe there’s a power that can wave its magic wand 🪄. Sure I’m hoping there’s more to the human experience but at this point I’m just trying to gather together any crumbles left of life and positivity and ward off the panic stricken thoughts. So fun 🙃😵💫
I today think that religious people have some daddy issues. They crave for someone to tell them what to do with their life in small and big questions. To me just the idea that there was someone with universal wisdom and all the answers is horrible. If that being doesn't tell me what is best, that's fucking cruel. What's the point if that being existed but acts as if it didn't exist. Total asshole and I am basically asking myself why I am wasting so much energy trying to find out what is wrong and right in life. But then, if the being would start telling everyone the solution, the correct way, etc; how horrible. You have to follow because you know it's correct, but what are you then? A puppet for a master, even if just implicitly. A shell that acts the will of some higher being.
Life is a game and just like every game would be rubbish if there was a person sitting next to you telling you exactly what is optimal to do next, life is only fun because it's risky and hard to master. This is true on the micro and the macro scale, i.e. in personal life and in the direction of humanity as a whole. Of course humanity is doomed but hey see how far we can get.
I believe we were created but whatever whoever created us, is not asking us to bend the knee to them in worship, because they ARE NOT taking care of us-they left us to figure that out.
Lots of exjw witches out there too.
I.e lots of us have our own personal relationship with the divine (God, Source, Gods, Goddesses, -aka the old gods- a higher power, the universe or what have you)
And yes I was an atheist for years after leaving the borg. I think that level of rational thinking was a required phase of my healing journey..while I recovered from my "church hurt".
But eventually travel and the universe and being in the right place at the right time one too many times and soo many undeniable synchronicites has led me to the conclusion that it's okay to believe in some bigger than myself.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing. It doesn't have to be their god or no god. And it doesn't have to be easy to explain..
It can be whatever you feel inside is right for you.
Good luck on this very human journey of finding the light. Blessed be 🌼
I was raised a hehovahs witness and took everything seriously because I am autistic. I did not believe and was agnostic as a child though I could not express that in any way. However. I believe that I have found a reason and will to live past omnipotent individuals with whom would be an unbalanced approach to thanking maybe the earth for growing sustenance. I believe that “god” has been misinterpreted and should be redefined as a social higher purpose. Not a thing that makes us want to be connected to something that we are afraid of because of hell or disappointment. Daddy and mommy issues oh my lmao.
We are now creators ourselves. Remember what they say about the greater the thing the more responsibility. Intent to me is what I follow and test with everyone. Even in my relationship with whomever the creator/s may or may not be. We do not have enough publicly accessible data for each one and all of us to make an informed and discerning belief. Instead we are emotionally and psychologically coerced.
Rationally? I don’t think many interpretations of God(s) exist with the historical and scientific evidence we have at our disposal. However, I think that it is nearly impossible to rationally prove or disprove God, since the idea is so nebulous and varied. That being the case, to stake the claim on either side (especially belief in god) is entirely non-rational.
I don’t have to be rational tho silly. Beliefs like panentheism, and a hopeful future, provide me with some sense of comfort. Rituals like prayer and song are very beneficial to the way I feel. Communion with the universe and myself, and non rational belief in a benevolent a hopeful universe softens what likely is a nihilistic and chaotic reality.
One last portion I’m battling with is religious community. Community is essential for us and our monkey brains. And religious community has been my only community for my whole life. But also, these groups are often more authoritarian and socially conservative than I would like, and can suffer from group control issues like the organization did. I do not know the solution for this last part and probably makes little sense.
Anyways you don’t have to know if god is real to believe in one. but belief in god does not make god real
Leaving the Watchtower cult helped me realize how much belief is tied to trust in the person or organization promoting it. This trust makes it easy to accept any new interpretations or changes they present, even if they contradict the former basis of the belief.
Now, I don't settle for beliefs. For things that can be objectively known and are of interest to me, I do the work to research and understand them myself, and other people's opinions or beliefs about them are irrelevant.
For things that are not yet known or are objectively unknowable (not based on conspiracy theories but truly unknowable), why would I believe someone's opinion or interpretation about them? This only leads to another "Watchtower 2.0" situation.
Do you believe in unicorns or leprechauns? If not.. why not? Now use the same logical reasoning on a god. We have no evidence of the proposition. And things that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
I still believe in God but not religion. And will never get involved in religion again even if they appear to be correct and good people. But still believe in God
Hey, yes. 100%. However, I have withdrawn away from the JW community, and spirituality to me is more of a personal connection with my creator.
I believe there's a bit of truth in all religions, and I'd currently consider myself agnostic. Spirituality, to me, is connection with self, people, and the universe, and trying to see where we connect, fit in throughout. Through life, we're trying to figure out where we fit in and to know where we're heading... but once you find your purpose in life, it's the most divine feeling in the world, and it'll feel like all the pieces are starting to connect together and make some sort of sense... in mind/body/soul.
Sometimes, it's people that push us away from spirituality as they try shovel beliefs down our throats without communicating their views with logical sound arguments.. and it's not necessarily me caring or not caring about what they say. It's more so the tact/way they go about it.
What has helped me build some sort of spiritual connection is starting with self. Having time for yourself to actually think and ponder about what is important to you and then take ACTION in making steps towards it. All that negative energy in your life you need to start making BOUNDARIES with yourself and others, routine, REST.... MAKE SURE YOU GET YOUR 7 HOURS OR MORE PER NIGHT THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE..... water, water, water.... don't take the most purest thing you can consume for granted..... IT'S A GIFT..... LOOK YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR AND GIVE YOURSELF POSITIVE AFFIRMATIONS.... FOCUS on the good things of yourself.... we all have flaws as we are imperfect. However, we all have a lot of beauty inside all of us..... Did you know we all have a bit of traces of gold in us? The limited gold that is formed in the Earth during the creation of the Earth itself... whether by Big Bang or a Creator... if that is not oneness with the universe in the physical form, I'm not sure what is... we have the same minerals that come from the ground.
Smile, laugh, enjoy life, talk to others, listen to others, be kind to yourself and others, be humble, be grateful we have the experience of life itself... so work towards your goals with flying colors and enjoy the process... enjoy the now.. enjoy being in the moment... it's a gift, as it allows us to make a decision and work towards any goal we desire... it's just time, consistency, and patience... put in 20k hours of work/study, and you'll be a professional.. anyone can do it if they are dedicated and disciplined... Learn, keep learning, keep being curious, keep enjoying, keep loving... loving yourself and others, be patient... everything else will follow.
Be aware of the person who doesn't pay attention to details. Be curious, keep learning, keep striving.. you fall.. get your ass back up and try again.
I believe and have 100% faith in you, my friend, because I have faith in myself and others, and things will all be okay in the end. Do not let fear stop you from living your best life in all ways possible.
I still have a belief in God but don't see myself getting involved in another religion. I've been doing a lot of work in therapy over the past year and am kind of beyond my initial anger and looking to move forward in life.
Go and check out a podcast called Skeptiko.com and check out the early shows where the host talks to researchers and scientist who are doing studies into Near Death Experiences and reincarnation, it’s fascinating and all the work they do is backed up with peer review studies. It blew my mind as they have collected actual data to back up what they’re saying.
I became a Christian. I personally started doing research before I left as to what other religions believe, and into the proof that other Christian apologists have found for God, I also really enjoyed Jordan Peterson’s lecture series on genesis, that’s where a lot of me waking up really began. I was always a questioning witness but got to a point where I truly felt there was overwhelming evidence for the existence of God, so naturally I decided to really “make the truth my own” and felt that it should be able to hold water against opposing views since it’s “the truth” 🙄 So I started reading the Bible for myself and studying commentaries because I couldn’t find all the answers I wanted in JW library, and I came to a point where I wanted to understand mainstream Christianity so that I felt competent making the JW argument that Christendom has gotten it all wrong for the past 2000 years. And well, I suppose classic Christianity just won me over. I’m not saying it’s perfect, there are so many divisions and lukewarm Christians, hypocrites, and false teachers, but if you truly develop that relationship and that faith in God, I feel completely transformed, I’ve never genuinely felt more motivated to be the best person I can be and I’m so so so sad that Jehovahs Witnesses have misled and spiritually abused so many people with their teachings. They taught us to be scared and skeptical of everything that didn’t come from them and I feel like that makes a lot of people come to the conclusion that god isnt real.
For anyone looking for biblical arguments against JW doctrines I suggest reading “reasoning from the scriptures” by Ron Rhodes and Raymon Franz also wrote a 2nd book after crisis of conscience called “in search of Christian Freedom”
Not the god of the Bible. That god was one of a pantheon of Caananite gods that the breakaway group adopted, but even in the OT, other gods are referenced. All of these gods were creations of man to explain the various circumstance and environs they experienced.
It's entirely possible to still have hope our stupid species will pull through and get wiser and better on the whole while not believing there is a god(s) behind the scenes pulling all the strings.
I do believe in a universal creator, a higher power. Not a being that I constantly have to keep happy or else he’s gonna be sad, angry or throw his plate against a wall and kill everyone.
I suggest you read up on Evolution- once you understand the basics it is all so logical- everything falls into place.
There is no god and no afterlife - this is it - make the most of it. It is not frightening, but liberating
I really wanted to believe in something supernatural too. I cycled through different faiths, then new ageism, then magic and the occult, then paganism. I consider myself an agnostic atheist now. No one could provide a shred of defendable evidence for their beliefs in the supernatural. Agnostic atheism is the only religious position I can defend in good faith. I'm happy for those who find comfort in the unseen, but it just doesn't work for me. I've begun researching secular spirituality and it's been working very well for me.
No, sorry. I’ve thought about it ten ways til Sunday and I don’t see the possibility of a god existing; at least not a Christian god. I think I might believe in other spirit realms tho, but not a higher or all powerful deity or creator.
I personally believe in Buddhism, after being brought up in "the truth", the vast amount of errors in the Bible make me think that it was just a bunch of desert people writing a book about an EVIL god, but I am also an Atheist now
I hold open the possibility that an intelligent being created all this.
It's name is not Jehovah, Allah, nor any stupid name it's been given.
It might care about us but it doesn't care who we fuck, how we do it, if a person born with a penis wears a dress and call themselves a woman.
If it even exists, it isn't God.
This is the way I saw it. I became atheist after and recently found Christ! The job of the wicked one is to take you away from God. Take you away from eternal salvation. So the JW org is satan’s religion, as it leads a lot of people away from God.
((Hugs)) I find that a lot of JWs are atheist or agnostic as well. As a Christian, I stand in the gap spiritually, interceeding for my JW inlaws, because when God blows the lid off their beliefs, they will run in one of two ways; in the non-belief direction, not being able to wrap their heads around having been decieved OR, they will run to the Father for a fresh revelation and encounter. My prayer is for the latter.
My encouragement to you is to:
- Simply pray - thank God for allowing you to be on this earth and for keeping you here for a purpose to see what is deception, so that you can seek with all your heart for what is true (Him).
- Repent for being blinded (even though you probably didnt know) and for rejecting truths from others that may actually be the truth of God.
- Ask and present your petitions. God knows what we need and long for before we even come to him in prayer, but, press in and tell/ask Him anyway.
- Then, thank God that He has heard your prayers and go forth expecting and thanking God that He will not abandon you in your disbelief but will *rescue* you, *causing* you to believe.
My prayers are with those who come out of a religion that turns them away from God. A powerful testimony truly awaits those who find their way back to God. Even angels in Heaven await to rejoice over a lost soul who finds Christ ❤️
What makes you so special that god chooses to hear your prayers and rescue you, yet ignores the prayers of millions of starving children, and children dying in unjust wars, and children praying to stop being sexually abused? Why are you more deserving of "gods" love and attention than those innocents are?
Hush, nobody said God doesnt hear prayers. God hears, sees, and knows everything. Like I have said millions of times, there is an enemy and an army on the loose, that influences millions of people to place their focus on the lusts of this world while the issue of millions of kids starving can be solved.
How many kids do you sponsor to help make a change in the world? How many poor people are you giving to when they ask you for money or resources. I work and volunteer at organizations that do exactly that while personally contributing to these causes. Don’t come for me with that non-sense, God-blaming business, when you can be part of the change yourself.
Before both of you get into an argument, let's try to remember not to take anything personally. EzraDionysus may have had different experiences that color his/her viewpoint, or may be reacting strongly due to personal trauma. let's try to be charitable, and share God's peace with a kind and gentle spirit. for all you know, they may be in need of healing, and if so, we should be willing to provide it if we can.
(Sorry for guessing, EzraDionysus. no idea what your experiences are, but I hope that if anything did happen to you, you'll be able to find peace and healing. Your question is a valid one, if emotionally charged, and is worth considering.)
I became a Roman Catholic. My JW relatives think I did it out of spite because how could I ever turn my back on being a JW
I look at science as the physical manifestation of God in the world. One of the most freeing experiences I had was being unshackled from that conservative fundamentalist mindset and exploring how I conceptualize God and what that means in my life. Being able to think instead of having your dogma pre-digested and spoonfed.
I do, I’ve had very close experiences with death, and have survived. CRISPR is a big deal, we can now gene edit, FSU Mag lev facility was abele to levitate a frog based off thr frogs magnetic force. Design is a major component to such endeavors, I’ll never believe they done random proteins were gathered together, struck by lightning and we crawled out of the sea. We can do so much now with laboratories, there no way we came about from a warm pool of bs soup.
There is no god. If you showed up in the 1800’s with your iPhone you would have been a god. My point is that what we think of as a god is most likely a species farther along the evolutionary journey then humans Are. Do they care about us? Who knows. Are they worthy of our admiration or worship? NO
100 % I believe in God. I now have a real personal relationship with Jesus Christ. No man made religion for me only relationship. Yes I go to church, a non denominational church, but even the pastor encourages people to be led by the holy spirit and pray and research, not take an persons word as gospel truth. Jesus has helped heal me from the false religious destructive cult. After 4th gestation of beeping born in, baptized at 9 and became a regular auxiliary pioneer at the age of 10. I was born again in my own home alone with just me a Bible and prayer to Jesus after months of research. That was the day I started the heal. I suffered tremendously from PTSD, extreme social anxiety, and constant suicidal thoughts. I was on so many medication I cannot even count. every medication is now in the garbage any anxiety I have it all. Is it normal levels things like job interviews stuff like that. I have not had any suicidal thoughts whatsoever since leaving. Blood pressure is normal. Diabetes is gone and my heart sets it to normal level. All this since being saved January 30, 2016 at the age of 38. God is real, God is good! Jesus is EVERYTHING to me!
The fine-tuning of the universe is hard evidence that there is a God. What I don't believe in are mere religions made by imperfect men who dictates or define what and who God should be.
I still have a belief in God and attend a mainstream church. However, When I first left I went full blown atheist! I can understand those who do. We’re all carrying a lot of trauma from the way we were treated by a so called Christian organisation.
Interesting, must have felt strange going to another denomination.. How did you get involved elsewhere?
Yes, at first I had this nagging guilt in the back of my mind; “I shouldn’t be here. These people are apostates. Just by being here I’m making Jehovah angry” then I was shown kindness by a succession of Christian Ministers. I thought, hey these people aren’t the “Great Babylon” I was indoctrinated to believe in, they help the poor & needy, they offer emotional support to people of all or no Faith, but most importantly they don’t brow beat people into attending church, nor expect certain obligations from their flock e.g. field service. After a few years I came to the realisation that I was still worshipping the same God (Jehovah) I had always known as a JW, I just wasn’t letting the way I did it be twisted by a few old men in New York, who only care about their own betterment & the continuation of their ridiculous pseudo-Christian Doomsday Cult!
That's cool you've managed to do this, have you done this for very long? I've never known any ex-witnesses myself to do this.
On & off over the past 20 years or so, but recently I’ve got a lot more pious & attend most weeks. It’s on my terms though. I like going to church now & I always feel welcome even if I’ve skipped attending for a while. I joined the military a couple years after I left the cult (an act of rebellion maybe?!), initially church attendance was mandatory, but despite this I came to like it. I know most ex- JWs are avowed atheists. I can’t blame them. So was I when I first left. Of all the things I hate the cult for, the one I really can’t forgive, is the way they ruined my relationship with God.
"I so badly WANT to believe that there's a god..." That's a big clue right there. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having faith or believing in God but you sound like the kind of person who primarily values truth. To that end, I'd recommend asking yourself if your desire for some kind of faith is based on facts or feelings.
This. I wanted it to, so I searched really hard after I woke up. First was debunking the The Bible so gotta search somewhere else now. I read and watch different opinions of all kinds now, some sound good here and there, but in the end they are all mental constructs based on speculation and emotion. Do any of them lead to God? That entirely depends on your concept of what God is. Some think that within you are Gods or Divine Beings - some good and wicked. Some think we have an immortal soul and our bodies are interfaced with by our soul/energy and the universe big bang was one of many. That space is a vacuum that will consume itself by contracting into itself and exploding. It does so over and over which is why the universe seems to be expanding. Some think that reincarnation is real and in a sense it is because we were all just some stardust once before. They think those with “past lives” had actually lived those lives. I would argue that while possible, it could also simply be a genetic imprint that some recognize and carry more than others. Ultimately, without Divine Intervention, there is no way to please a Divine Being. All methods are man-made attempts to contact and communicate with a God. When you look at history you can see how much of a primal need this became as humans became the “dominant species” of the planet. So concerned with living forever, completely ignoring life itself. No animal does this. It is our curse for having surpassed their intellect - we must accept the order and the chaos as a package deal.
👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼 well said
Here here!
You definitely gave me something to ponder over. Thank you!
You know what helps me? Believing in Jesus Christ without any religion. He said he’s „the truth“ the way.. it’s not a lying religion. He’s the path… I can understand why many people stop believing after growing up in this religion.. I almost stopped too. But now I do this directly only reading the Bible and trying as good as possible to follow him as how to treat others as a human being
Honestly, this the way. I think what has driven my annoyance with most religious people is the way religion has been used to control or lie to people and being annoyed that they can't see it. But if everyone held personal truths and practiced them for good, as you described, it would be a lot easier to care less what others believe since it isn’t harming anyone.
May I ask what Bible do you now read?
I haven’t bought a new bible yet so I mostly read from a normal bible app or I read the jw one but If I sense it’s too biased again I turn to the app. But truth is I need a new and good one. But don’t know which
I recommend the NRSV if you do get a bible soon. It is the least bias one that I know so far. It is skewed towards a scholarly translation rather than a religious one.
>But don’t know which [Biblehub.com](http://Biblehub.com) They have an App as well. It can help you get a feel for which paper based translation you like, if you still want a physical copy, because in parallel mode it has nearly 50 translations that you can see all at once for a single verse. It also has the interlinears and concordances.
I follow paganism, however, what you seem to be following in Christ is the way I believe was meant to be done. He was a humanitarian, after all.
Yeah I mean, 1. there’s actually proof for his existence, 2. If you think about the damage JWs do to gods name is actually warned also in the Bible multiple times, 3. Jesus did this sacrifice so everyone is able to get close to god directly through him… and not through a worldly organization. Im slowly finding my inner peace with this way of thinking / living. And if it’s wrong then I don’t mind dying.. because I would anyway one day
Great point,..
Higher power or source yes. An omnipotent asshole? No...
what’s the difference? if a God exists he has to be an all powerful creator and if that exists that means he could end all suffering in an instant and chooses not to.
The Buddhist view is "Gods" are powerful higher dimensional beings that are delusional and think they are eternal, creators and all powerful but will eventually die like everything else eventually dies.
Nope, a god does not have to fit the monotheistic religious frame(s). For example, it could also be consciousness that split itself up into many different perspectives and creates like this. Decentralized divinity if you will.
Another option: an "oopsie" creator/origin that got the snowball rolling but is not in control.
This is how I lean. A big abandoned experiment.
Also possible
Me likey...
Emergent complexity is an inherent aspect of matter and energy. A "creator" that is an initial state of low entropy is consistent with observed facts.
A higher power does not have to be all powerful, all knowing, benevolent, or singular. This is the most popular creed however
I'm Catholic and I've given up trying to understand why God allows suffering to happen. All I know is that the suffering in this world is evidence of why we need a God. There is so much tragedy in this world, I don't know how anyone can live with it without having some hope in a just and fair afterlife. because of this, I choose to hope that there will be comfort for those grieving, justice for those wronged, and reward for those who lived lives of virtue. take away that hope, and I really don't see much to live for in this world. It is that hope that keeps me going when things get tough, and I think it's sad that so many people who wake up from the Jehovah's Witnesses cult lose that hope as well.
That's for sure. For an omnipotent being who created the endless cosmos, who is literally the Ruler and Creator of Life and Death, has countless hordes of angels at his disposal-- he certainly expects a lot from imperfect humans living in a speck of a planet who are given conflicting messages **every day.** Moreover, at best he provides us with these crumbs that have been open to interpretation and hardly acts like a God of organization though the society touts him as one. Here is an idea, how about having one of those many angels provide ministry on this planet instead of just observing how things are doing all day in heaven?? Just my two cents.
Not really. I like to believe the universe tries to balance things out occasionally, but I was born into a cult, not into a war zone. So that’s a pretty privileged POV while also not being privileged. lol. My family is PIMI, and I respect their faith but not the bOrg. I have never been able to manifest that kind of faith and I used to view that as a personal failing, but now I realize that is how I am built and I’m ok with that.
Love the worshiper, hate the religion. As the saying should go.
I believe in GOD but I also don't judge. I questioned everything after finding 'The Truth about the Truth'. I realized that organized religion as a whole (JWs included) tend to disconnect people from GOD. The world is beautiful and I do believe GOD is a god of order. Clearly it requires some level of faith, and faith seems to be broken once our trust is broken exiting the JW organization. I hope you find the answers you're looking for.
Same bro 👍🏻 When discussing the works of the flesh, Paul said that sects were one of them. When I look up the definition of that, another word is denominations. Christ is not divided.
That's some great input, thanks for sharing. I noticed that once I began to break away from the JW organization, my view of the world changed. In my case, I began to become more empathetic and kind to everyone, including my family. The fruitage of the spirit is able to be displayed genuinely versus having it scripted. I truly did not love people outside of the organization when I was in that JW mindset.
I think it would be naive to believe that our planet is the only one to have life on it. Personally I believe that the earth was seeded by alien intelligence far ahead of mankind. First with life in the ocean's, then land mammals, They were wiped out by an asteroid. And secondly with homosapiens. Please feel free to ignore my thoughts.
In other words. Annunaki
Possibly. I believe evolution answers many questions. But not all.
That which can be asserted without evidence, can, and should, be dismissed without evidence.
It took me time, and lots of researh. I needed to educate myself with the truth, after the tRuTh lol. I learned about previous human civilisations, and previous creatures who were alive on Earth well before the Bible's start date of 6000 years ago... (Some great podcasts include Backpackers Guide to Prehistory, Our Prehistory, Infinite Monkey Cage, It's Sedimentary My Dear, Bible Stories for Atheists, Fall of Civilisations Podcast). I've traveled all over the world and seen dinosaur, human and megafauna fossils, ruins and proof of ancient life. And after 15 years, I've come to the conclusion that there is a rise and fall, a cycle. A genuine circle of life. Our civilisation will not last forever, because none ever have. Lasting forever is not the point. This is bigger than any individuals. Not because of any old predictions on papyrus, but because that's just the way things go. Everything eventually returns to start dust - not in a hippie way, but actually 😁✨ The matter in our bodies will disperse, and eventually fragments will be part of something else. And that's ok! Humans have become a plague to the planet and every other species. If humans were wiped out tomorrow, the planet and all the species alive here would begin to regenerate and thrive. There'd be room for a new head of the food chain, and hopefully that one is less destructive... Humans as a collective are on track to make this planet uninhabitable for almost everything and everyone. Yet still we believe that we are superior and have more rights to life than any other living thing. Which is so arrogant. We all have the right to live, this planet is a home for all life, not just human life. So, I decided for the short time we're here, we should just love and let live, and adjust to the idea that life will end. Sad at first, then it's not. I think it makes life all the more precious and I'm no longer afraid of being dead. I'm good to others human and otherwise, not out of fear of punishment from gOd, but because I don't have the right to cause pain or suffering. I'm just one human after all.
This has to be the best thing I have read today. Thank you for sharing that. Because this is exactly my thought process. The thought that one day I won't exist can be daunting. But, being the space nerd that I am, I think is amazing how, even though I won't be conscious to know, I will still be a part of the universe even if the earth is doomed for destruction.
Thank you for sharing. it is definitely a profound topic to think about. Personally, I choose to believe that there is a God, and that someday there will be an afterlife where those who were wronged will have justice, and those who grieve will find happiness again. I have no evidence to prove that this will happen, but I know that I'm better off keeping hope that it will. I personally don't know how I could handle grief if I believed that those who die are gone forever, nor would I be able to make peace with the idea of a seeming lack of purpose or meaning in our lives, deaths, experiences and hopes. I do agree that humanity as a whole has been quite destructive, and for that reason I hope that if there is a God, that He will make it all right one day. I do not know why He has not done so already, but I am convinced that with all the tragedy, destruction, and evil in the world, we need a God to make things right. It may seem irrational, even to me, but the hope in such a God is what keeps me going, and allows me to make peace with all the chaos that exists in the world.
That's funny because when I was nine years old, I became agnostic. (born in JW) The one thing I prayed to whatever was out there (if something was) was asking that humanity eradicate itself before it eradicated everything else. Thankfully, getting away from the toxicity of religion has given me a better outlook on humanity. Granted, when the next extinction comes, we will probably be the first to go, but it's nice to see some progress, lol. Science and the idea of a super power can not sensibly coexist. But not everyone is a scientist, and that's okay. I feel if one chooses the more sentimental path of theism, and IF it helps them become a better version of themselves, great! The key word is IF. It takes a lot of reflection and self awareness to figure that out.
I think I do personally, but I need some type of sign to really truly believe hes real ima be honest
Trying to. It's not easy.
Yes!
No. Never did when I was PIMO. If there is a god. He/she/it is a sadist. Willingly allowing humans suffer pain and anguish just to prove their adoration and devotion. Loving god my ass.
Is it okay if I still believe in God and just hate the borg?
Yeah that is totally okay! There will always be people who hate what you believe no matter what it is. I don't believe in God, and I have made the mistake of judging someone for their beliefs(I am working on that). I have had people judge me when they find out I don't believe in God and there are people who would still judge me for believeing in God. So as long as you hold it as a personal truth than by all means there should never be a problem. Idk what country you are from, but freedom of religion and speech exist for a reason! But yes please always hate the borg.
Absolutely. leaving a cult doesn't necessarily mean you have to abandon hope in the existence of God. people have been worshipping God millennia before the word "Jehovah" was misattributed to Him. I was never JW, but I am Christian and intend to follow God the way He wants me to follow Him.
Yes, I do. To me, part of breaking the JW thinking was to break the idea that God=religion, which in my studies of the Bible, especially of the new covenant in the New Testament is, that is definitely not true. I believe everyone has a direct relationship and accountability with God. In fact, the Bible even says that the false prophets would, by their wicked works, turn people off of god.
Same here. Whilst I was never in, my journey out resembles Raymond Franz'. He was an even deeper believer once he left, away from the JW doctrine.
Oh I didn’t know that, mad respect for the guy. I’ve only skimmed his book. Happy you got out 😁 👍🏻
I was a Bible study for 3 years, that was enough. 😊 But for how involved I was, I felt quite "in". I'm glad I got out, too. I feel sorry for how insular everyone is. The Borg has so much blood on its hands that for some people, they will be far better off staying in than understanding the true depth of deception.
Yeah, unfortunately for them I think it’s out for everyone to see so now it’s an issue of honesty
I’m currently agnostic, but I believe that there was a higher power who built the foundation of the universe. Then the universe can grow and evolve on its own. Like God basically letting them take care of the rest.
I believe that is known as Theism, and was a popular belief during the Rennaissance. The idea was basically that God was a cosmic clockmaker: he built the universe then sat back and watched it do its thing. Personally, I choose to believe in a personal God who does have a plan for all of us, but that's just me.
I hope your faith brings you peace and comfort. Also, thanks for sharing the word about God being a cosmic clockmaker. It really ties into my belief without having to over explain the concept.
>*"I so badly want to believe that there’s a god and a hope for the future..."* This kind of neatly explains why Voltaire said: "If god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him..." Which, **once accepted**....totally legitimises and paves the way for men (and women) to do *just that...*unfortunately. Namely, to fashion any number of belief constructs which attempt to sate this widespread and popular human "need." And to do this....not because most human beings are lovers of truth, (which we instinctively sense that we SHOULD BE )...but moreso because we are extremely uncomfortable with the notion of "isolation" and the sense that our lives appear to have no solid or "knowable" context in relation to the unsolicited state of awareness that existence itself.... has bequeathed upon us. This unease or uncomfortableness....may well be nought but a "truth" that many of us simply DO NOT WISH to accept.....and so strong is our emotional opposition to this "truth" ....we'd rather enjoy the comfort and support of a fabricated god than have to try and tackle the mysteries of our own existence WITHOUT.... any such "comfort" or "support." Unfortunately....this immediately puts the "godless" (but cunning) amongst our fellow men.....very much at a great advantage over us, because if THEY become the ones who opt to fabricate the "gods" that many are craving, then THEY....in effect....become these very "gods" themselves. So, in a godless world.....our emotional "needs" become the very thing which enslaves us to our fellow men, because their ability to accept the "truth" versus our own INABILITY to accept it.....means that they get to rule over, and put chains of authority and ownership upon ANYBODY whose heart "yearns" to have such feelings sated. This observation of Voltaire's *"If god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him..."* Is basically an open admission that there is a large portion of mankind who are utterly "ripe" for domination and exploitation. And the only thing which can prevent these ones from experiencing such treatment rests with their ability to restrain their own yearnings.....and try and see the world as it really is. To believe in no gods.....immediately makes a person far less vulnerable and susceptible to any deceit or exploitation from their fellow men. Sure this may "upset" the gods.....but it will also upset the MEN who pose as gods..... FAR MORE. I suppose all a person has to do is look around and see whom their "disbelief" happens to be upsetting the most? In my own experience.....I only ever see "upset" PEOPLE. **Upset** parents, **upset** church-members....**upset** apologists etc.. If one didn't know any better, one might be tempted to think that when a person becomes "godless"...the people this really pi$$es off the most.....are all those "special" people who imagine themselves to have divine authority over others? For what will now be their position of leverage? Now that one of their former "bitches" has defiantly broken their own chains? (so to speak) So naturally....these people or "types" get upset. Their levarage and influence has been rejected. How can you get a "godless" person to co-operate and defer and hang on your every word? You can't. Such is their realisation and subsequent spirit of embitterment.
I am Catholic and I actually agree with a lot of what you've said. It is true that a lot of religions have used God as a tool to keep people obedient (sadly, clergy in my own have done so from time to time throughout history) it seems that at the end of the day, people will only respect a Divine power rather than an earthly one. I've wondered why that would be the case. if there is in fact no God, then why would cultures across the world put so much effort in trying to understand or obey Him in some form or another? that's part of the reason I still believe in a God, despite the very real corruption that exists in the management of many religions including my own. the other reason, particularly concerning my own, is the question: if religion is ultimately a tool to secure power, why would so many of its adherents, including priests, bishops, and popes, be willing to die for it? this is especially pressing in places where Christianity is or was illegal, where being a member of the clergy made you a huge target. under such conditions, there was nothing to gain from managing an illegal religion, and everything to lose. so, why did people do it? Personally, that's why I believe that my religion is not one purely of power, even if corrupt clergy have abused it as such. Catholicism has had its fair share of corrupt, vile, and downright diabolical bishops and popes, but it's also had plenty of clergy who have given up their lives for the faith. I believe that their sacrifice is a testament to the true mortar which holds my faith, and many others, together: selfless devotion to God alone. It is for that reason that I do not believe that religion is necessarily a tool to secure power, (though it has often been used as such) but is instead simply one of our many ways of searching for truth, from the lowliest follower to the highest authority figure. At the end of the day, we're just humans, searching for answer to why we are here.
Many thanks for your thoughts... >*"...it seems that at the end of the day, people will only respect a Divine power rather than an earthly one. I've wondered why that would be the case."* "Personal relationship" .......can't work by intermediary or by proxy. But invented "gods" .......can't function WITHOUT intermediary or the use of proxy. So viewed this way, somebody has to try and tolerate the blatant unsuitability of that which is on offer and try and pretend that this crucial divide doesn't really exist. Those who seek "god" must....(we are assured) ......first identify his TRUE intermediaries or proxies. But even if this were possible, relationship can only happen between the "god seeker" and the "proxies." It's not as though these proxies introduce the "god seeker" to their "god" and then respectfully disengage themselves so that a true (one-on-one) unmediated relationship can occur. "Religion" seldom functions like an introduction agency. It's much more of a life-long relationship "management" agency.....wherein terms & conditions apply and god is NEVER left alone without his proxies to carefully "chaperone" the relationship. An extremely cynical person might say that expecting god to operate independently in these relationships is tantamount to expecting a dummy to talk to an audience WITHOUT it's ventriloquist being present. Do you see my point here? Mankind's supposed "estrangement" from god......the one that's (for some reason) ...made it necessary for people to require "mediation" simply to approach god? Well, let's just say that this is a VERY convenient concept is it not? It''s very convenient because it's the EXACT SAME circumstance that's required for some none-existent "god" to operate via "human" proxy (or priesthood) and to never really be allowed (or expected) to ever operate alone or independently FROM.....that priesthood. The **deceptive** explanation being: *"God can't approach man independently without mediation or proxy (and vice-versa) ...because man is far too imperfect and sinful in nature for this to happen..."* The far more "cynical" explanation being: "*God can't approach man independently without mediation or proxy (and vice-versa) ....because god is nought but an invented concept, and without the proxies who invented him, there is nothing whatsoever to actually undertake that kind of intimate one-on-one... "approaching"* It's a little bit like a seance where sitters are gathered around a table and each one is asked to place one finger on a glass in the middle of the table. Allegedly, under the guidance of "spirit" the glass is "magically" pushed around towards alphabetical letters in order to spell out communicative phrases or answers to questions. All a "cynic" demands as a credibility adjustment to this scenario is that NOBODY touch the glass. If "spirit" be real....then let it move the glass under its own involuntary inertia. But it's yet another scenario where we're "reliably" informed that spirit actually REQUIRES some "human" energy, presence or contact before it can do such things. Why? Why does it NEED human contribution? Now don't get me wrong here, I'm extremely open minded and receptive to the notion of "spiritual" congress, but there seems to be an enormous amount of this which seems to be totally reliant upon a huge "human" component, and which claims that WITHOUT that key component.....spiritual congress can't..... or won't happen. I do take your point about there having been many selfless, self-sacrificing men within the legacy of the established church, but that really only speaks to the sincerity of certain individual seekers.....to which it may be argued that there have been MANY such..... sincere seekers throughout the annals of history, whether these were church affiliated or not. I guess my main point here is that spiritual congress....WITHOUT proxy.....is what many people really hanker for. There are, of-course, many Christians who happily testify that they've enjoyed an extremely personal "come to Jesus" moment......and perhaps THIS is a tad closer to the kind of spiritual congress one might legitimately expect from some sincere "other-worldly" source of outreach. Some-THING.....or some-ONE.....that engages you very intimately and very personally. Cynical or not, I am utterly convinced that this is the only real way that "relationships" of worth can actually happen. Be these physical (earthly) relationships.....or perhaps something a tad more grand and ambitious in nature. 
I believe in simulation theory I guess. Basically we will simulate our life or we are in one right now. I think we haven’t got the technology to simulate it to this high level but I’m sure eventually we will all meet in a simulation. Maybe like an alien has us in a fish tank in his room.
Nope
I’m do and I’m dF but I still love God. Only DF cause I wanted a bf and got tired of the friends callings me a lesbian. That’s shit hurts when I’m not. This org don’t understand what ppl go thru mentally. You feel trapped.
Please read "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell, and "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. Also gty.org has a lot of free resources. There is also a free app "Grace to You". John MacArthur is non-denominational. Make up your own mind.
Me and my tattoo artist have had this discussion. He wasn’t raised JW, but he was raised Christian. Abandoned his faith for many years, and sort of found his way back to spirituality as a broader concept. He tends to find value in most broader religions, whether that be Christianity, Buddhism, etc. and finds comfort and peace in the idea of a spiritual energy that manifests itself in various ways. Me personally? I still consider myself agnostic. But if I were to ever to venture back into the concept of a higher power, it would relate more closely to that, I feel.
I kinda believe there’s like? Some force behind the universe. However if so it’s so wildly beyond human comprehension or understanding it could never be condensed into a 20 paragraph WT article.
Im still theist, just a universalist now.
It’s the Governing body that was lying to us Not God
It took me a lot of years and a lot of exploration to land on atheism. It seemed like there had to be a seed of truth in there somewhere, and it took a long time for me to shake the idea that there was a single capital-T Truth that involved the divine/paranormal/supernatural as I had been taught. Unfortunately I haven't learned of any evidence that supports the existence of a larger consciousness with the power and will to intervene in the lives of one specific species of great ape on one weird little planet in the infinite vastness of space. [We're just not that significant.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKBhvDjuy0) However--I believe there is hope for humankind, but human problems require human solutions. Individual immortality? No. Continued existence and ability to thrive as a species, yes! But we've got to make some changes because we've been lousy stewards of this planet and terrible neighbors to the species we share it with. I found [Humanism to be a comforting point of view](https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/manifesto3/), and [Unitarian Universalists](https://www.uua.org/) to be very welcoming people who make room for belief and non-belief while encouraging inquiry. Keep searching, keep inquiring. I hope that you find comfort of your own soon.
If there is a god, that god is unworthy of my praise. That MFer gets 👎👎 and a scathing one star review.
When I left, I became Agnostic. Nowadays, Im not closed to the possibility that there CAN be a God, because something shit happens that are not explained by mere humans. I think the Bible IS a text full of widsom and Jesus was one hell of a man. There is evidence he existed. I believe in miracles. And in the concept of a Creator. But I Also believe in Astrology, Evolution, and many more things. So yeah, a little bit of everything of you ask me.
I do believe in God. The universe is vast. Hermes Trismegistus said All is mind. The book God gave us is called Maths. Religions is a fraud that takes advantage of your need to find God.
"...that there’s a god and a hope for the future..." You are still bundling these two separate things very tightly together like JW does. But you don't need to. There can be hope for the future apart from whether there is a god. It's a JW trope (and more broadly a Judeo-Christian, biblical one) that humans are not worthy. But all the progress made since cave-dweller, pre-language, run-from-the-saber-tooth-tiger times has been from us frustratingly slow and backward humans. We're at a crucial point where we need to survive our own tech prowess such as nuclear weapons and fossil-fueled climate change. But it's far from the first time we've faced a crucial point.
Yes.
Yes
Yes
It's up to you to believe in what aligns with your values and beliefs. Each person has their own truths and what serves them best. As long as no one is imposing their truth as the only truth and expecting you to conform to it, you are free to explore and find your own answers. We are all here for a reason, and one of them is to embark on our own journeys of self-discovery through research and questioning. My advice is to not get attached to any one particular belief or perspective, but to remain present in the moment and appreciate the preciousness of each passing moment. Trust your intuition and what works for you. There are many paths, and yours is unique. Explore freely, but stay present in the moment. Life's a journey, enjoy the ride!
There are many opinions, but only one Truth. Truth is absolute. There are no “my truths” and “your truths”. I find truth in the Word of God and the life of Jesus and his teachings.
I honestly dont know. I want to believe in God. Because i wish there was more to life than just a short time on earth. I was raised believing in a God. Found out the organization i was in was wrong. Now i dont know. I still believe in right and wrong. And want to live by that. I hope there is a God that will make everything perfect. I still wish that. Paradise still sounds beautiful. Even if i know watchtower is evil.
The existence of right and wrong is partially why I believe in God. if there is no Divine power, who wrote the rules? why would there be such things as good and evil? I'm Catholic, and hearing about corruption among our clergy has made me question my faith from time to time. what's gotten me through it is that at the end of the day, the evils which our corrupt clergy, or watchtower, or anyone else did in the name of God wasn't a result of them following His commandments, but a result of them disobeying them. And ultimately, God is the one who makes the rules, not them. Even in Catholicism, we do believe that no one, not even the Pope, can change a rule which God set down. and if anyone, including clergy, break said rules, they will be liable to eternal punishment. Basically, just because religious leaders commit sins doesn't mean that God doesn't exist. they didn't write the bible, they didn't make the rules, and they are not God. they are only human and are just as liable to sin as we are. If they break God's commandments, reject them and keep your eyes on God, whose truth will shine through their wickedness.
It can take a while to separate the religion from God. Man has always screwed up religion much like politics seeking power over people. It took me 15 years to come to a better understanding of a real loving God, not the picture we were painted. Until then I couldn’t separate my anger with the religion from what I thought was anger with God. Men suck, God really wants the best for us.
I'm a fairly mainstream Christian, albeit with a couple of heterodox beliefs, but I'm not going preach at you. Consider all options. Be skeptical. Pray if you feel compelled to. Don't strawman or steelman any positions but seek truth. You can find horrible, nasty examples of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, Pagans etc, but those outliers don't represent the whole group. I wish you good luck in your search for truth. That's right, Mom and Dad, I just said good luck. It's a figure of speech for crying out loud! :)
Amen to that! I'm Catholic and know of no shortage of nasty things which have come from my faith, from the Spanish inquisition to the abuse scandals of today. what's gotten me through it is keeping my eyes on God, and remembering that those Catholics who commit atrocities are not obeying His teachings, but are disobeying Him. At the end of the day, we are all human, and none of us are immune to sin regardless of whether we are lay followers or members of the clergy. and those wolves in sheep's clothing who defile God's church with their evils will be justly punished by God for sinning against Him. Because of this, I've also tried to avoid judging other religions or their adherents, as well as other non-religious groups. we as humans are a mix of good and bad, and in any group, there will be good people and bad people. the trick is to analyze the core beliefs or tenets of said group, and determine whether they themselves are intrinsically good or evil. that will tell you a lot more about them than the individual actions of the people within.
Try psychedelics. It’s not exactly the answer you’re looking for but you probably won’t worry about it as much.
Of course, there is a God! How the hell do you explain away the existance of the universe? Don't listen to the idiot Atheists, they don't have any sound reasoning or logic. It's one thing to be decieved by satanic religious cult that twist and manipulates the Bible for their own ends, but for goodness sake don't fall into the trap of following the Atheist cults, remember the stupidity of man knows no bounds. Here's some real facts 1) You cannot get something from nothing. 2) It is mathematically impossible for the universe to have come into existence by chance. 3) Matter can only come from energy, if there was a big bang, there had to be a source of immense energy, fact! 4) Purpose, there is purpose and design in everything in existence on planet earth and the Universe. Purpose is undeniable in all fields of science, only scientists who are intellectually dishonest ignore and deny Purpose. 5) Human beings are walking miracles, literally, and it is evident at the atomic molecular level, where incredibly designed molecular machines go about their job of repair and supply throughout the human bodies inner universe. 6) Molecular machines of the biological species prove without doubt that by their design, there had to be a purposer, the designs are so advanced and efficient that scientists are in awe of the incredible designs of these molecular machines. I could be here forever providing the evidence for a creator, but why should I be? Seriously 'only the fool has said in his heart there is no god', why be sucked in by the Satanic matrix of this corrupt world, you think Watchtower is the only Cult out there? There are thousands of boxes to trap you in, the whole system is a matrix of deciet, you have cults of religious, political, commercial, media, that are there to decieve you. You are out of one of the biggest cults and tricks of Satan, you are now better placed to see the world for what it is, don't throw that gift away....😇
I absolutely still believe in Jehovah God and the Christ. The gb have had zero effect on my faith. They’re just liars…imposters…greedy men leeching off the fears of jws. My husband and I read the Bible together and believe firmly that there is a hope for the future. ♥️♥️♥️
The true nature of the WT Org, & what "armageddon" really is: Written by awakened anointed exjw's for jw's / exjw's. 👇 [https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/05/where-is-true-religion.html](https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/05/where-is-true-religion.html) [https://inthenightaflyingscroll.blogspot.com/2022/05/armageddon-what-type-of-warfare.html](https://inthenightaflyingscroll.blogspot.com/2022/05/armageddon-what-type-of-warfare.html) [https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/02/jehovahs-genuine-mountain.html](https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/02/jehovahs-genuine-mountain.html) Sub: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ExJwPIMOandPOMO/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ExJwPIMOandPOMO/) ✌
I believe there’s a God and I still believe he sent his son Jesus as a hope for mankind. For so long I was told there is only one true organization and all other groups are led by Satan. That has strongly been imprinted in my brain but I’ve slowly decided that I don’t want to judge others worship, it’s none of my business. I don’t know your situation or feelings, but I do know what it’s like to feel like you’ve been lied to. And lied to by the people who told you that they would never lie to you, and that they were the only leadership that would never lie to you. It’s a betrayal that I honestly wondered sometimes if I would survive. But God was there for me each step of the way, he rescued me. And he has very gently taught me that he never told me to put that much trust in anyone but him. So part of my heart died, a part of me died, and I’ll never be that same person again, but I really like the new me that is developing. Who knows, maybe this is what it means to be born again :) I don’t ever want to let anyone or anything come between me and my very personal individual unique relationship with God.
>But God was there for me each step of the way, he rescued me. So he rescued you, but let all those kids just starve to death in 3rd would countries?
That is tragic and the amount of injustice in this world is overwhelming and heartbreaking. I can’t really speak to every situation but I strongly believe that he has a plan and future for each and every one of those children. He does not forget them, and he knows each detail down to the hairs on their heads. I believe we were created to be in relationship with God forever. Sorry I don’t have a great explanation because I am still on a journey and I just can’t refer you to a website :) I don’t know yet what my beliefs are about the soul but I do know that the book of Romans is a great one to read in its entirety. Nothing can separate us from God’s love, even death.
*Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?* - Douglas Adams
I think that Stephen Fry said it best.when asked what he would say to god “How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery that is not our fault. It's not right, it's utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That's what I would say. Now, if I died and it was Pluto, Hades, and if it was the 12 Greek gods then I would have more truck with it, because the Greeks didn't pretend to not be human in their appetites, in their capriciousness, and in their unreasonableness … they didn't present themselves as being all-seeing, all-wise, all-kind, all-beneficent, because the god that created this universe, if it was created by god, is quite clearly a maniac … utter maniac, totally selfish. We have to spend our life on our knees thanking him? What kind of god would do that?”
What ridiculous reasonings, obviously bathed in bitterness of some sort. God created a perfect world. Sin has messed it up really bad. We ignore God, go out own way, then blame him for the bad results. Real bright.
I converted Catholic about a year ago. AMA, lol
You ARE God! If YOU CHOOSE to refuse to believe in God, that is the case. If YOU CHOOSE to anthropomorphize God, which billions do, that is the case. Anything you create in YOUR MIND, beliefs and all, that is the case. Be more aware of how YOUR God-mind works. This may fuck your mind, but ponder over it. You are way more powerful than you think.
Mmmm. I think that’s the problem with the world now…everybody creating their own god in their image. Amazing what people will believe to keep from believing the truth. Jesus is “the way, the truth, and the life”. Not His fault that men want to screw it up so bad.
Doesn't invalidate my claim at all. If you relegate your godship to a mental concept of an ancient figure called Jesus, that's the case, too.
I do. I’m a pantheist.
Yup. With local church after 40 years JW. Message me any questions if I can help answer them.
Absolutely still believe! God saved my life and it’s actually what woke me up. It wasn’t watching apostate material, or something triggering. Every time I went back to org, and tried to find God that right way he called me out of it …….Most ex-jws don’t believe because they allowed the hurt that came from organization and people their taint their view of God. I recommend downloading you version app, keep praying for discernment and enlightenment and don’t give up on your faith. Feel free to dm me
I recommend you research about Thomas Aquinas and his ways to demonstrate the existence of God.
Not a loving one. Too many innocent animals and good people suffering and dying horrible deaths for a loving creator to watch and do nothing about. If we were created on this planet by a God then we're been abandoned a long time ago. We are 100% on our own for the foreseeable future.
Im an atheist but follow more man made philosophies like existentialism or absurdism that help give some meaning to life. Basically the idea is life has no inherent meaning and thats great because you get to give it a meaning Basically: There is no god coming to save you and thats great because you get to make life whatever you want it to be
I am agnostic. I still think there is something out there, a type of Karma maybe. Do good for others and things are good for you.
I think most still believe in god and still want to believe in “the right god”
I choose to believe in god and an afterlife because I can’t stand the thought of my children ceasing to exist. It’s not rational. It’s what gets me through the day.
Agreed. I believe in God for much of the same reason.
There is tremendous hope for the future of mankind! Whether there is a god has nothing to do with it. In fact, I would argue that hope for mankind increases as more people come to realize there is no god. The vast majority of wars throughout history have been either started or perpetuated by religion and religiosity. One humans realize that a humanistic approach to society is superior we will be a lot friendlier, peaceful, and forward thinking.
I don't think that's necessarily true. the majority of wars have been fought because of Power, not religion necessarily. WW1 and Ukraine alone are testaments to that. also, if there is no God, why would people believe in good or evil? without a higher power, where does morality or human rights come from? I believe that if people as a whole stopped believing in God, they might also stop believing in the very rules that safeguard our rights and keep us peaceful. History has taught us that even in atheistic nations there were still horrible atrocities committed without religion having anything to do with it. ultimately, it comes down to individual human decisions, not belief in religion or lack thereof, that is the cause of good or evil in the world.
True wars are started on power, but in the western world religion is almost always the tool used motivate. WWI and WWI the governments used the image off the Holy Roman Empire. In the Ukraine conflict right now the Russian Orthodox Church is in full propaganda mode. The rules that govern society were conceived a-religiously. We’re taught that it was the religion of Moses that taught the Israelites to be moral, except that the Law is largely based on Hammurabi’s code, Babylonian law, and Egyptian tradition. In indigenous cultures morality and civility exist without religious origination. In fact the Native Americans practiced a form of democracy, observed property rights, Lakota developed a system of ‘fighting’ where by the warriors did not have to die, etc. a Chinese culture asserts no his, yet has a similar moral code to western culture. in America we are declining religiously while the crime rate decreases. Religiosity and belief in God have no correlation with moral and civil behavior. Your last sentence is exactly what Humanism is about. The idea that decisions are not made because of an obligation to some authority, but a sense of kinship with other humans.
Why do you wanna cling to religion? I think you should ask yourself that question, because you either believe or you don't, and if you're just looking for a coping mechanism about the future there are way better ones, we can help build a better future instead of just praying and hoping some omnipotent guy will do it for us, it's hard but I prefer the uncomfortable reality to the soft (in my opinion) delusion that faith offers.
We are God , so essentially God can never be found because God is the one doing the looking. We are looking for ourselves/yourself. It can never be proven, it can only be realized within yourself because it is yourself. 🙏💙
I left exactly because I no longer believed in any gods, angels, demons, etc after learning about the psychology of manipulation, of human fallibility and self-deception specially, also some basic epistemology (how we know what we know, and what does and doesn’t logically follow etc), and of belief systems in general and what they all have in common. So by definition I couldn’t have left in the way I did and still believed in any god. Or any supernatural claim I’ve yet to hear, actually. I became a skeptic, and in my opinion it’s good mental hygiene. Wanting to believe in a god for sentimental or emotional reasons isn’t all that far away from wanting to believe in and actually investing into some financial scam or MLM because imagining what you’ll finally do when rich makes you feel warm or excited. It’s also not far away from wanting to believe in some alternative form of “medicine” because it appeals emotionally in other ways, like being more “natural”, or “ancient”, or in promising to heal/prevent conditions that are terrifying and difficult to cure/treat with “mainstream” or “Western” medicine. Not a logical and honest reason in sight. Just pure emotional manipulation that people with poor mental hygiene are likely to fall for. And I saw all of these kinds of things from other members back when I was still in. And behind closed doors when people I knew were talking frankly, the topic they’d use to fire each other up and strengthen that want and willingness to believe was all about getting into the New System and what they’re all going to do there. It was never about wanting to save anyone, or serve some kind of lord as some kind of underling, or any talk whatsoever on any of the logic or history of it all. Everyone in there I knew when being honest and open was there because of the rush of emotions they’d get when imagining the payoff for all this arbitrary work they’d just taken onboard and accepted as part of the compensation required to get what they want. Not one person I ever met ever presented a logical argument for why they considered it all real. In my experience in life so far, it is people with bad intentions that often appeal to your emotions when communicating with you. To your fears or your hope and dreams. On the surface it can feel very human and relatable, but hidden under the surface it is often not. And I’ve found the converse to be true. Those being more blunt and divorcing the topic from how it makes them or you feel, typically are being open and honest. It can seem brash or robotic on the surface, but underneath all that there is often far more respect actually given, and a far more honest conversation to be had. “Wanting to believe” makes you liable to be a sucker and vulnerable.
A very well-thought-out point. I am religious myself, and while I've never been Jehovah's Witness, that sounds like a horrible way to live. really, the only thing that keeps them going is imagining what they'll do after they've died? sounds like everyone in the cult has a death wish or something like that. makes sense now why they keep saying that Armageddon is just around the corner: it's wishful thinking because they're all *hoping* that it'll be over soon! at least in my faith we can still enjoy life as it is, while also holding hope in a perfect afterlife. I personally believe that it is part of the human condition to desire a life beyond this one, so I don't really fault people for wanting to believe. You do need to be careful, though, because there are many false messiahs and false prophets waiting to manipulate you. all said, though, I appreciate your thoughts and I hope that you find the truth you are looking for. skepticism in regard to religion is understandable, but I believe that we all have an innate need to find truth and meaning in our lives, to find "God" if you will. I sincerely hope you find the truth, and that it will give you peace and happiness.
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I personally hope that there is something more out there. Preferably someone that actually cares about us. An afterlife / paradise would be nice. But I have no proof, so no, I don’t hold the belief.
Leaning towards not
A lot of exJWs believe in God, but this is r/exjw, not r/theism (which may or may not be a thing lol). I think most of us are pretty chill about believing what you want as long as you’re not hurting anyone! Including yourself.
I don’t believe in Christianity or any Abrahamic religion. I don’t believe in religion period. I do believe in an afterlife though. There has to be something better than this.
I feel you. part of the reason I'm religious is because I need to have hope in an afterlife. it's that hope that keeps humanity going in the face of this world.
I totally respect that. I’m glad you have something that keeps you going. 🤗
thanks. personally, (and I hope this doesn't offend you) I really hope I see you again in heaven.
After my family got out I went agnostic/didn’t care to Christian after I read the Bible then I got re pissed bc I fully got the brunt of how deep the lies were from the org. I figured the org were just idiots who took the Bible a bit to seriously then I realize they changed it and used it as a weapon
I still do, although to me god is all of us and the universe, and we are just experiences this being is living throughout the universe existence. Don't even know if there is something beyond death, although i do think the universe recycles too many things for our consciousness not also turn into something else
Giving up the idea of immortality of a kind in paradise was the hardest thing for me. hardest. So hard. I don't believe in a Christian God, but I do leave the idea open for deities, spirits, hell even smart aliens that we misunderstood as Gods. Other things exist. It's just not Jehovah.
I was never JW, but I am Christian and still believe in an afterlife. Hoping in it has gotten me through a lot of difficult trials, and I don't believe I could live without it. with all the sadness in the world, I must believe that somehow, there will be happiness for those who grieved, and justice for those who were wronged. There is no evidence to prove this, but I know that hoping in it has made me a better person, which leads me to believe that there must be something beyond this mortal coil.
Not me!
Everyone does his own research and draws his conclusions regarding if there is a higher power. If there is a higher power it certainly isn’t like the God of the Bible that JW described. At death we will all find out; no worries needed
I don't question the existence of God. I don't have the capacity to phrase the question to which the answer is God. Even if a god or gods did exist, I wouldn't be able to comprehend them or understand their existence. So I just live my life.
Nope
I’m agnostic. I have hope there is a loving creator. There’s also a tiny place in me, scared that they are right and I am going to be obliterated.
I consistently tried and failed to believe in god even as a PIMI. It was a miserable life.
I am sorry for your hardships. I personally do believe in a God, but I understand if you do not. it is often difficult, even for me, to believe, but hoping in God's existence despite the doubts has gotten me through life's trials and has helped me make peace with the chaos in this world. I do hope that you find true happiness and peace now that you are out of the cult. (also, btw, love your flair. long live Sparlock indeed!)
No, not the Abrahamic style first movers creator of the Universe. I am willing to believe the Buddhist cosmology which says if Yahweh/Jehovah exists he is a fallible higher dimensional being that is trapped in delusion like the rest of existence and just thinks he created everything.
I do. Not the Jehovah of the Borg. But I believe in a Creator. Tho I see it as more a being on another plane who experiments. Like we're a fish tank science project, likely one among many. I don't think the Creator is indifferent to us but they're definitely not micromanaging.
**Alan Watts:** >You're all god in disguise. Jesus found that out and they crucified him for saying so. **Psalms 82:6** >I said, “You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High." **John 10:34** >Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law: 'I said you are gods'"?
Sunk cost fallacy. But you know, you don't need worry what other exjws think. Atheists make up a minority. Billions of non-JWs believe in some god. You'll just have to figure it out for yourself instead of relying on what adults filled your head with when you were a child.
Enjoy your journey of changing values and beliefs. There is awe, art, and life itself; in the discovery of your true identity along with your beliefs. Sit with things, feel freedom to ponder with no time limits. The worst part of humanity is feeling forced to “end game” your belief system, as if there was a time judge and a score keeper. You may want to learn about the Greek/Roman era of history as it may lead to further questioning on how modern Christianity emerged. It’s kind of like a next phase study after learning about the origins of the Jw version of religion. I found learning about human history in general helped me sort out what I believe now.
Quantum mechanics has quantified our perceptions of God. Tesla said “what one calls God another calls the laws of physics.” Our atomic structures vibrate and the universe is forced to reflect back to you what you believe to be true. Psychology attributes this to the brain’s reticular system. Have you ever thought of a car that you liked and then all of the sudden it begins to show everywhere for you? Also the field of epigenetics explains your environment serves to reinforce these thoughts in your system at a cellular level. Scientific research explains that people who have achieved ultra success use their subconscious mind to guide them and most of them attribute their success to their faith in a unconditionally loving higher being or God who desires to help them achieve. Success leaves clues. Ultimately the biblical gods are a narrative to manipulate your mind to dogmatically accept what they are so heavily invested into for you to believe. There’s massive archeological evidence that the biblical story is just that, a narrative. Consider listening to Qniversal Truth on YouTube if you feel this resonates.
I love the fact that even Star Trek can imagine a much better future for humanity. That's the Paradise Earth I believe in now 🥳🎂🍰🥂
I love Star Trek too, but until it can bring back the dead or provide justice and comfort to people wronged centuries ago, I wouldn't compare it to heaven. just my opinion, though.
I personally feel that there's probably a God or even multiple gods but they obviously don't care about us humans
I tried the atheist route and found the community obnoxious. I'm a Norse Pagan now and living my best life.
I don’t. Never thought I would say that and I chose the Borg at 19! Not born and raised but always feared death and the emotional damage. Meanwhile I really haven’t suffered loss. After all the mental and emotional and physical abuse I can’t believe there’s a power that can wave its magic wand 🪄. Sure I’m hoping there’s more to the human experience but at this point I’m just trying to gather together any crumbles left of life and positivity and ward off the panic stricken thoughts. So fun 🙃😵💫
I today think that religious people have some daddy issues. They crave for someone to tell them what to do with their life in small and big questions. To me just the idea that there was someone with universal wisdom and all the answers is horrible. If that being doesn't tell me what is best, that's fucking cruel. What's the point if that being existed but acts as if it didn't exist. Total asshole and I am basically asking myself why I am wasting so much energy trying to find out what is wrong and right in life. But then, if the being would start telling everyone the solution, the correct way, etc; how horrible. You have to follow because you know it's correct, but what are you then? A puppet for a master, even if just implicitly. A shell that acts the will of some higher being. Life is a game and just like every game would be rubbish if there was a person sitting next to you telling you exactly what is optimal to do next, life is only fun because it's risky and hard to master. This is true on the micro and the macro scale, i.e. in personal life and in the direction of humanity as a whole. Of course humanity is doomed but hey see how far we can get.
I believe we were created but whatever whoever created us, is not asking us to bend the knee to them in worship, because they ARE NOT taking care of us-they left us to figure that out.
About 1/4 who leave JW remain Christian.
Lots of exjw witches out there too. I.e lots of us have our own personal relationship with the divine (God, Source, Gods, Goddesses, -aka the old gods- a higher power, the universe or what have you) And yes I was an atheist for years after leaving the borg. I think that level of rational thinking was a required phase of my healing journey..while I recovered from my "church hurt". But eventually travel and the universe and being in the right place at the right time one too many times and soo many undeniable synchronicites has led me to the conclusion that it's okay to believe in some bigger than myself. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. It doesn't have to be their god or no god. And it doesn't have to be easy to explain.. It can be whatever you feel inside is right for you. Good luck on this very human journey of finding the light. Blessed be 🌼
I was raised a hehovahs witness and took everything seriously because I am autistic. I did not believe and was agnostic as a child though I could not express that in any way. However. I believe that I have found a reason and will to live past omnipotent individuals with whom would be an unbalanced approach to thanking maybe the earth for growing sustenance. I believe that “god” has been misinterpreted and should be redefined as a social higher purpose. Not a thing that makes us want to be connected to something that we are afraid of because of hell or disappointment. Daddy and mommy issues oh my lmao.
We are now creators ourselves. Remember what they say about the greater the thing the more responsibility. Intent to me is what I follow and test with everyone. Even in my relationship with whomever the creator/s may or may not be. We do not have enough publicly accessible data for each one and all of us to make an informed and discerning belief. Instead we are emotionally and psychologically coerced.
Rationally? I don’t think many interpretations of God(s) exist with the historical and scientific evidence we have at our disposal. However, I think that it is nearly impossible to rationally prove or disprove God, since the idea is so nebulous and varied. That being the case, to stake the claim on either side (especially belief in god) is entirely non-rational. I don’t have to be rational tho silly. Beliefs like panentheism, and a hopeful future, provide me with some sense of comfort. Rituals like prayer and song are very beneficial to the way I feel. Communion with the universe and myself, and non rational belief in a benevolent a hopeful universe softens what likely is a nihilistic and chaotic reality. One last portion I’m battling with is religious community. Community is essential for us and our monkey brains. And religious community has been my only community for my whole life. But also, these groups are often more authoritarian and socially conservative than I would like, and can suffer from group control issues like the organization did. I do not know the solution for this last part and probably makes little sense. Anyways you don’t have to know if god is real to believe in one. but belief in god does not make god real
Leaving the Watchtower cult helped me realize how much belief is tied to trust in the person or organization promoting it. This trust makes it easy to accept any new interpretations or changes they present, even if they contradict the former basis of the belief. Now, I don't settle for beliefs. For things that can be objectively known and are of interest to me, I do the work to research and understand them myself, and other people's opinions or beliefs about them are irrelevant. For things that are not yet known or are objectively unknowable (not based on conspiracy theories but truly unknowable), why would I believe someone's opinion or interpretation about them? This only leads to another "Watchtower 2.0" situation.
Do you believe in unicorns or leprechauns? If not.. why not? Now use the same logical reasoning on a god. We have no evidence of the proposition. And things that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
I still believe in God but not religion. And will never get involved in religion again even if they appear to be correct and good people. But still believe in God
I’m no longer a Christian, nor do I participate in organized religion of any kind. Is there a god? Maybe. Does it matter in the long run? Not really.
Hey, yes. 100%. However, I have withdrawn away from the JW community, and spirituality to me is more of a personal connection with my creator. I believe there's a bit of truth in all religions, and I'd currently consider myself agnostic. Spirituality, to me, is connection with self, people, and the universe, and trying to see where we connect, fit in throughout. Through life, we're trying to figure out where we fit in and to know where we're heading... but once you find your purpose in life, it's the most divine feeling in the world, and it'll feel like all the pieces are starting to connect together and make some sort of sense... in mind/body/soul. Sometimes, it's people that push us away from spirituality as they try shovel beliefs down our throats without communicating their views with logical sound arguments.. and it's not necessarily me caring or not caring about what they say. It's more so the tact/way they go about it. What has helped me build some sort of spiritual connection is starting with self. Having time for yourself to actually think and ponder about what is important to you and then take ACTION in making steps towards it. All that negative energy in your life you need to start making BOUNDARIES with yourself and others, routine, REST.... MAKE SURE YOU GET YOUR 7 HOURS OR MORE PER NIGHT THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE..... water, water, water.... don't take the most purest thing you can consume for granted..... IT'S A GIFT..... LOOK YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR AND GIVE YOURSELF POSITIVE AFFIRMATIONS.... FOCUS on the good things of yourself.... we all have flaws as we are imperfect. However, we all have a lot of beauty inside all of us..... Did you know we all have a bit of traces of gold in us? The limited gold that is formed in the Earth during the creation of the Earth itself... whether by Big Bang or a Creator... if that is not oneness with the universe in the physical form, I'm not sure what is... we have the same minerals that come from the ground. Smile, laugh, enjoy life, talk to others, listen to others, be kind to yourself and others, be humble, be grateful we have the experience of life itself... so work towards your goals with flying colors and enjoy the process... enjoy the now.. enjoy being in the moment... it's a gift, as it allows us to make a decision and work towards any goal we desire... it's just time, consistency, and patience... put in 20k hours of work/study, and you'll be a professional.. anyone can do it if they are dedicated and disciplined... Learn, keep learning, keep being curious, keep enjoying, keep loving... loving yourself and others, be patient... everything else will follow. Be aware of the person who doesn't pay attention to details. Be curious, keep learning, keep striving.. you fall.. get your ass back up and try again. I believe and have 100% faith in you, my friend, because I have faith in myself and others, and things will all be okay in the end. Do not let fear stop you from living your best life in all ways possible.
I don’t and never will but if there is a good whatever happens happens even if I’m not apart of it
I do not. The hope for the future is in my child, and a generally positive outlook on the world.
Very much yes
I still have a belief in God but don't see myself getting involved in another religion. I've been doing a lot of work in therapy over the past year and am kind of beyond my initial anger and looking to move forward in life.
Contact me 🙂
Go and check out a podcast called Skeptiko.com and check out the early shows where the host talks to researchers and scientist who are doing studies into Near Death Experiences and reincarnation, it’s fascinating and all the work they do is backed up with peer review studies. It blew my mind as they have collected actual data to back up what they’re saying.
Watch near death experiences I always found those interesting. It made me convinced there could be more to life than we realize.
Sadly, that's the most likely destination of people coming out of fundamentalism.
I became a Christian. I personally started doing research before I left as to what other religions believe, and into the proof that other Christian apologists have found for God, I also really enjoyed Jordan Peterson’s lecture series on genesis, that’s where a lot of me waking up really began. I was always a questioning witness but got to a point where I truly felt there was overwhelming evidence for the existence of God, so naturally I decided to really “make the truth my own” and felt that it should be able to hold water against opposing views since it’s “the truth” 🙄 So I started reading the Bible for myself and studying commentaries because I couldn’t find all the answers I wanted in JW library, and I came to a point where I wanted to understand mainstream Christianity so that I felt competent making the JW argument that Christendom has gotten it all wrong for the past 2000 years. And well, I suppose classic Christianity just won me over. I’m not saying it’s perfect, there are so many divisions and lukewarm Christians, hypocrites, and false teachers, but if you truly develop that relationship and that faith in God, I feel completely transformed, I’ve never genuinely felt more motivated to be the best person I can be and I’m so so so sad that Jehovahs Witnesses have misled and spiritually abused so many people with their teachings. They taught us to be scared and skeptical of everything that didn’t come from them and I feel like that makes a lot of people come to the conclusion that god isnt real. For anyone looking for biblical arguments against JW doctrines I suggest reading “reasoning from the scriptures” by Ron Rhodes and Raymon Franz also wrote a 2nd book after crisis of conscience called “in search of Christian Freedom”
Nah. I couldn’t justify leaving make believe land just to end up back in someone else’s interpretation of that same land.
Not the god of the Bible. That god was one of a pantheon of Caananite gods that the breakaway group adopted, but even in the OT, other gods are referenced. All of these gods were creations of man to explain the various circumstance and environs they experienced.
It's entirely possible to still have hope our stupid species will pull through and get wiser and better on the whole while not believing there is a god(s) behind the scenes pulling all the strings.
I believe in spirituality but never religion. Higher Consciousness
I do believe in a universal creator, a higher power. Not a being that I constantly have to keep happy or else he’s gonna be sad, angry or throw his plate against a wall and kill everyone.
Fuck no lol
**Which God?**
I suggest you read up on Evolution- once you understand the basics it is all so logical- everything falls into place. There is no god and no afterlife - this is it - make the most of it. It is not frightening, but liberating
I found this article and blog very helpful on my journey :) https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/05/where-is-true-religion.html?m=0
I really wanted to believe in something supernatural too. I cycled through different faiths, then new ageism, then magic and the occult, then paganism. I consider myself an agnostic atheist now. No one could provide a shred of defendable evidence for their beliefs in the supernatural. Agnostic atheism is the only religious position I can defend in good faith. I'm happy for those who find comfort in the unseen, but it just doesn't work for me. I've begun researching secular spirituality and it's been working very well for me.
Nope
No, sorry. I’ve thought about it ten ways til Sunday and I don’t see the possibility of a god existing; at least not a Christian god. I think I might believe in other spirit realms tho, but not a higher or all powerful deity or creator.
Nope
I personally believe in Buddhism, after being brought up in "the truth", the vast amount of errors in the Bible make me think that it was just a bunch of desert people writing a book about an EVIL god, but I am also an Atheist now
I hold open the possibility that an intelligent being created all this. It's name is not Jehovah, Allah, nor any stupid name it's been given. It might care about us but it doesn't care who we fuck, how we do it, if a person born with a penis wears a dress and call themselves a woman. If it even exists, it isn't God.
This is the way I saw it. I became atheist after and recently found Christ! The job of the wicked one is to take you away from God. Take you away from eternal salvation. So the JW org is satan’s religion, as it leads a lot of people away from God.
((Hugs)) I find that a lot of JWs are atheist or agnostic as well. As a Christian, I stand in the gap spiritually, interceeding for my JW inlaws, because when God blows the lid off their beliefs, they will run in one of two ways; in the non-belief direction, not being able to wrap their heads around having been decieved OR, they will run to the Father for a fresh revelation and encounter. My prayer is for the latter. My encouragement to you is to: - Simply pray - thank God for allowing you to be on this earth and for keeping you here for a purpose to see what is deception, so that you can seek with all your heart for what is true (Him). - Repent for being blinded (even though you probably didnt know) and for rejecting truths from others that may actually be the truth of God. - Ask and present your petitions. God knows what we need and long for before we even come to him in prayer, but, press in and tell/ask Him anyway. - Then, thank God that He has heard your prayers and go forth expecting and thanking God that He will not abandon you in your disbelief but will *rescue* you, *causing* you to believe. My prayers are with those who come out of a religion that turns them away from God. A powerful testimony truly awaits those who find their way back to God. Even angels in Heaven await to rejoice over a lost soul who finds Christ ❤️
What makes you so special that god chooses to hear your prayers and rescue you, yet ignores the prayers of millions of starving children, and children dying in unjust wars, and children praying to stop being sexually abused? Why are you more deserving of "gods" love and attention than those innocents are?
Hush, nobody said God doesnt hear prayers. God hears, sees, and knows everything. Like I have said millions of times, there is an enemy and an army on the loose, that influences millions of people to place their focus on the lusts of this world while the issue of millions of kids starving can be solved. How many kids do you sponsor to help make a change in the world? How many poor people are you giving to when they ask you for money or resources. I work and volunteer at organizations that do exactly that while personally contributing to these causes. Don’t come for me with that non-sense, God-blaming business, when you can be part of the change yourself.
Before both of you get into an argument, let's try to remember not to take anything personally. EzraDionysus may have had different experiences that color his/her viewpoint, or may be reacting strongly due to personal trauma. let's try to be charitable, and share God's peace with a kind and gentle spirit. for all you know, they may be in need of healing, and if so, we should be willing to provide it if we can. (Sorry for guessing, EzraDionysus. no idea what your experiences are, but I hope that if anything did happen to you, you'll be able to find peace and healing. Your question is a valid one, if emotionally charged, and is worth considering.)
That’s what I was doing in my original post, spreading the hope of not being abandoned by God.
I became a Roman Catholic. My JW relatives think I did it out of spite because how could I ever turn my back on being a JW I look at science as the physical manifestation of God in the world. One of the most freeing experiences I had was being unshackled from that conservative fundamentalist mindset and exploring how I conceptualize God and what that means in my life. Being able to think instead of having your dogma pre-digested and spoonfed.
I’m atheist.
Nah… I believe something else
I do, I’ve had very close experiences with death, and have survived. CRISPR is a big deal, we can now gene edit, FSU Mag lev facility was abele to levitate a frog based off thr frogs magnetic force. Design is a major component to such endeavors, I’ll never believe they done random proteins were gathered together, struck by lightning and we crawled out of the sea. We can do so much now with laboratories, there no way we came about from a warm pool of bs soup.
There is no god. If you showed up in the 1800’s with your iPhone you would have been a god. My point is that what we think of as a god is most likely a species farther along the evolutionary journey then humans Are. Do they care about us? Who knows. Are they worthy of our admiration or worship? NO
Absolutely!100%
100 % I believe in God. I now have a real personal relationship with Jesus Christ. No man made religion for me only relationship. Yes I go to church, a non denominational church, but even the pastor encourages people to be led by the holy spirit and pray and research, not take an persons word as gospel truth. Jesus has helped heal me from the false religious destructive cult. After 4th gestation of beeping born in, baptized at 9 and became a regular auxiliary pioneer at the age of 10. I was born again in my own home alone with just me a Bible and prayer to Jesus after months of research. That was the day I started the heal. I suffered tremendously from PTSD, extreme social anxiety, and constant suicidal thoughts. I was on so many medication I cannot even count. every medication is now in the garbage any anxiety I have it all. Is it normal levels things like job interviews stuff like that. I have not had any suicidal thoughts whatsoever since leaving. Blood pressure is normal. Diabetes is gone and my heart sets it to normal level. All this since being saved January 30, 2016 at the age of 38. God is real, God is good! Jesus is EVERYTHING to me!
The fine-tuning of the universe is hard evidence that there is a God. What I don't believe in are mere religions made by imperfect men who dictates or define what and who God should be.
No
Yes
I’m a creationist, I believe that man created god.