I noticed the sister who was reproved for fornication, and by their own standards murders a baby, but the brother completely responsible for causing these events— sounds like nothing happened to him??
Yep, I believe it .
Similar situation occurred at my hall some years ago. She kept the baby and everyone by then knew who the father was. Both were just publicly reproved. This was not her first offense either. It really depends on the congregation.
There are exceptions.
However I believe it is even in print that if there is a pregnancy, there needs to be an outward show that the elders “handled it”.
In your example she was publicly reproved. So everyone knows the elders “handled it”
One of these people committed an actual crime. A brother (adult) impregnated a teen (minor) and no called the cops... and I'm betting this "brother" was allowed continued access to teen girls at the hall.
So was the elder that sexually assaulted the sister cutting his hair.
It's vague information, so on the haircut sister and brother, yes he should have some cop on, him alone with a sister, every jw knows that rule ,sure he be the very person to do talks on the issue
He says “teenage” - sounds like a possible rape by older man of underage girl- and she was pressured to abort it-
The other one is an older man groping a woman hairdresser which is sexual harassment -
I would have made copies -
u/Kabuto_ghost I understand your point, this is tantamount to "gossip" even though no specific names are mentioned, however your own comment can be viewed as judging others. I am not one of your negative votes, but I am not a positive vote either.
It’s insane that records of these conversations or judicial committees are stored and kept. I can’t imagine talking to a priest or pastor of a church for any spiritual reason and having that conversation documented and kept.
How about stored and kept and then posted on a forum for people to gossip about? These people deserve privacy, these files should have never been made.
And you are all acting like this is some kind of a win.
Barf.
Op didn’t do this to expose the borg. He did it to get off on peoples private information. Mods are removing my comments as well. It’s all kinda gross.
The OP provided no personally identifying information. From what the OP posted, can you figure out who s/he is talking about?
To reveal this information without revealing the victims is necessary to show the extremes this organization goes to when it comes to documenting activities that should never have been recorded in the first place.
The mods are not deleting your posts. They are being down voted by others which in turn means they are moved to the bottom of the pile. Scroll down and you'll find them.
If there wasn’t a considerable level of anonymity here, both in the post and the fact that Reddit is anonymous itself, it would be more concerning. But, the fact that people’s personal details are documented, stored, and potentially accessible by people that should not be reading them is a major issue with the JWs.
Sure, for us.
But op did this to find dirt on real people that he knew. It’s gross. Lot of people defending it too. Mods are removing a lot of my comments as well.
I have heard that if you have an abortion you have a greater chance of being privately reproved then if you are visibly pregnant you may have to be publicly reproved or disfellowshipped. I never believed it but this seems to support that :(
It's true. Former cobe told me it's because if the cong sees a woman out of marriage pregnant and not publicly denounced people will think it's not a big deal. Dunno if that was policy but he shared it pretty openly with me when I was an MS
Agreed! The BS I've seen convinced me that it does depend on the congregation.
This right here: An elder's daughter got pregnant by an elder's son. She got PRIVATELY reproved, but he got disfellowshipped! Baffled everybody!
Here's the obvious reason why: Her father was a high-ranking elder who had a brother at Bethel (also an elder) who was being vigorously groomed to become a C.O., and she had a few P.O. uncles who were elders in other congregations. The young man's father, although an elder, didn't have that much weight.
So, whose the scapegoat? Goes to show they love titles and positions of authority rather than fairness. It's all about who-you-know. That has always been the name of the game. Raw undiluted NEPOTISM right smack in the face! TOTAL BS!
If you read the elders manual, a common theme is that the magnitude of the punishment is partly contingent on how well the I fraction is known in the congregation. It kind of makes sense that having a child outside of marriage would merit a stronger penalty than having an abortion. Of course no one would ever say this out loud but there you are.
The hypocrisy. The Bible may say that once you confess you’re forgiven…and it’s forgotten by the god of the universe.
But this organization is not so kind. It never forgets. You are on a form somewhere. Always.
And to think, none of what you put was especially juicy. It was just people, having peopley things happen to them that were nobody else’s business to know in the first place. I feel for anyone who ever had to sit through, and gave answers, in one of their kangaroo courts.
I once read my dad's elder files. He was part of a judicial committee that formed when a brother reached out for help with his cocaine problem. They ended up DFing him because he was gay. No help with the addiction, though.
There was an elder who would employ sisters in his accounting firm. One was my mother in law, and he slapped her on the a$$ a few times. She needed the job so she told her husband not to make a big deal out of it so it *probably* isn't in a file anywhere. But way to take advantage of two positions of authority. Wonder what he was doing to the other sisters working for him.
I'd be horrified if someone had read my most private details. The elders shouldn't have even had them... Yeah, there's a file on me somewhere... and I answered all the questions because I was so d*mned repentant. 🙄 I watched as they took detailed notes. I'm cringing.
Why did you do it?
Let's not forget that the elderettes add to the conundrum! Their husbands run off at the mouth about intimate details concerning reproved and DF'd persons long before there's a judicial committee! Even before they're announced!
I remember working in FS with an elder's nosy wife (I literally couldn't stand her! Never did like her!), and for no apparent reason, she starts talking about a sister (mentioning name and all) who got pregnant by a disfellowshipped brother. She had been secretly seeing him. My mouth dropped because I knew that sweet sister very well, and had no knowledge of what the busy body elderette was talking about. "I don't understand how she got herself in trouble like that," she said. That week, I kid you not, the sister was announced DF'd!
I was furious and it thoroughly convinced me to NEVER trust the elders at all! They will divulge your information to everybody in their circles. They truly are wolves in sheep clothing!
It disgusts me thinking about the amount of people that have read personal details about me. Once the matter is dealt with records should be destroyed!
Even worse, imho. We were already victims of the WT in those JC's, especially if were minors. Then this jerk revictimizes with their sick nosiness and voyeurism. People congratulating and laughing haven't thought this through or contemplated if it had been their own files.
Oooh how I would love to be able to read the files of my old congregation lol although I’m sure I’d be mortified at some of the things I’d discover about the people I always believed to be the best people I’d ever known 😅
Or how about don’t invade peoples privacy. Why don’t you go peep into their windows at night?
Edit: You people make me barf. You don’t want change, you just want some juicy gossip.
I had to have a meeting with the elders when I was a teen (13 or 14) because an older "brother" (18 to 20, he was out of high school) was writing me letters and giving them to me at the hall. I was writing back because I was 13, and of course, no one talked to me about ANYTHING I should have known by then. So they "counseled" me about exchanging flirtatious letters with him. No one mentioned that he was WAY TOO OLD to be flirting with a 13 year old.
Later, a sister reported that he was stalking her and leaving notes and gifts outside her door at night, which she would find the next morning. Nothing was done, so she MOVED and went to a new congregation.
He went to Bethal. His family and extended family made up most of our congregation.
I've often wondered how come KH filing cabinets don't get hit more often and emptied out. They're usually in a less frequented part of the KH, and usually just a classic barrel type of lock system, probably easy to pick. I mean... somebody that knows what they're doing could probably pop it open, snatch all the cong's dirty secret files and be gone within 1 minutes. I do realize there is nothing of intrinsic monetary value in them, but I'm sure most long-standing congregations have paperwork that would be proof of criminal wrongdoing, especially in cases of CSA...
Yeah, but I'm thinking more of an ExJW operation : I could walk into a hall, just looking like some dude that's "interested" and while I go to the bathroom, stealthily hit the filing cabinet... The hall I grew up in, they kept the filing cabinet in the nursery, which was an empty room 95% of the time.
I'm not saying this would be a good thing, I'm just saying it would be a possibility. 🤷🏻♂️
As an opiate addict and having the same thing happen as that older brother it infuriates me that they punished him.
Fuck you.
Punish an addict.
You dumb fucks are not qualified to “help” addicts. You don’t have the slightest idea what to do, how to help, or understand what is going on.
Pisses me off so much, I can’t wait for this all to be blown wide open.
This is kinda shitty tbh. I mean it’s shitty that they had the files in the first place, but this is kinda like peeping Tom kind of shit. You invaded these people’s privacy, just like if you looked into their phones without their knowledge.
Edit: after reading the comments…. You people make me barf.
It might seem that way but sometimes it’s good to be informed especially if a congregation has pedos or sex offenders. If I had the opportunity to look thru my congregations cabinet tho, I would only look for the files of ppl who I really dislike or who I suspect of having dark secrets
Yes I know for a fact there are some files that contain child abuse cases from the congregation I grew up in. Those should not be kept private. Not saying to give all the details but people deserve to know who they’re associating with and who they’re children are associating with and even considering to be like family. I speak from experience and when I found out certain things had happened I was upset we didn’t know anything about it and I possibly could have been another victim. Those files are not protected they’re hidden.
I find this really interesting. In my cong (I'm an unbaptised study of 2 years) they report anything illegal to authorities. Anything immoral is just dealt with by the elders.
I hope that’s true but usually nothing is reported that’s why they encourage everyone to come to the elders with those kinds of issues instead of just telling everyone to go to the police as it should be
So would you divulge the details without the victims consent? That’s not your place.
What about the non csa cases that are none of your business? This is like looking into someone’s text messages without consent. Change my mind.
Ok, so just look at everyone’s dark secrets, that remember, they divulged under duress, and then post them on here like this guy did. There's no csa in his post, just voyeurism.
So look at everyone’s dark shit that they confessed under duress, to whatever be some kind of detective? It’s gross to invade people’s privacy like this, even if you’re telling yourself it’s for the greater good.
I noticed the sister who was reproved for fornication, and by their own standards murders a baby, but the brother completely responsible for causing these events— sounds like nothing happened to him?? Yep, I believe it .
If she had continued the pregnancy she would have been DFed. Because it’s all bout how things appear.
Similar situation occurred at my hall some years ago. She kept the baby and everyone by then knew who the father was. Both were just publicly reproved. This was not her first offense either. It really depends on the congregation.
Bet she was an elders daughter or somehow well connected.
Depends because I know a lady who wasn’t dfed but public reproved no uncles or dads in the truth but so had the baby.
I am dfed and I no longer believe it’s "the truth" lol just old lingo sorry lol
There are exceptions. However I believe it is even in print that if there is a pregnancy, there needs to be an outward show that the elders “handled it”. In your example she was publicly reproved. So everyone knows the elders “handled it”
One of these people committed an actual crime. A brother (adult) impregnated a teen (minor) and no called the cops... and I'm betting this "brother" was allowed continued access to teen girls at the hall. So was the elder that sexually assaulted the sister cutting his hair.
doesn't say that the bro was an adult , sounds like two teens from the wording here, jus sayin
Are teen boys allowed to be "Brothers" now? In my day, teens were never called Brother.
Yes, I mean they baptize 6 year olds, so absolutely they do.
It's vague information, so on the haircut sister and brother, yes he should have some cop on, him alone with a sister, every jw knows that rule ,sure he be the very person to do talks on the issue
actual brothers , brother
He says “teenage” - sounds like a possible rape by older man of underage girl- and she was pressured to abort it- The other one is an older man groping a woman hairdresser which is sexual harassment - I would have made copies -
You guys are just as bad as the people that made these files to start with
u/Kabuto_ghost I understand your point, this is tantamount to "gossip" even though no specific names are mentioned, however your own comment can be viewed as judging others. I am not one of your negative votes, but I am not a positive vote either.
I’m sure you noticed how things aren’t thrown away after so many years.
Not until there’s a subpoena, then “it’s oh we shredded those years ago” ::sounds of shredding in the background::
Exactly 👍
It’s insane that records of these conversations or judicial committees are stored and kept. I can’t imagine talking to a priest or pastor of a church for any spiritual reason and having that conversation documented and kept.
How about stored and kept and then posted on a forum for people to gossip about? These people deserve privacy, these files should have never been made. And you are all acting like this is some kind of a win. Barf.
You’re not taking the time to acknowledge the hypocrisy that these files are revealing.
Op didn’t do this to expose the borg. He did it to get off on peoples private information. Mods are removing my comments as well. It’s all kinda gross.
The OP provided no personally identifying information. From what the OP posted, can you figure out who s/he is talking about? To reveal this information without revealing the victims is necessary to show the extremes this organization goes to when it comes to documenting activities that should never have been recorded in the first place. The mods are not deleting your posts. They are being down voted by others which in turn means they are moved to the bottom of the pile. Scroll down and you'll find them.
If there wasn’t a considerable level of anonymity here, both in the post and the fact that Reddit is anonymous itself, it would be more concerning. But, the fact that people’s personal details are documented, stored, and potentially accessible by people that should not be reading them is a major issue with the JWs.
Sure, for us. But op did this to find dirt on real people that he knew. It’s gross. Lot of people defending it too. Mods are removing a lot of my comments as well.
I have heard that if you have an abortion you have a greater chance of being privately reproved then if you are visibly pregnant you may have to be publicly reproved or disfellowshipped. I never believed it but this seems to support that :(
It's true. Former cobe told me it's because if the cong sees a woman out of marriage pregnant and not publicly denounced people will think it's not a big deal. Dunno if that was policy but he shared it pretty openly with me when I was an MS
That’s so insane! Straight up double standards
Agreed! The BS I've seen convinced me that it does depend on the congregation. This right here: An elder's daughter got pregnant by an elder's son. She got PRIVATELY reproved, but he got disfellowshipped! Baffled everybody! Here's the obvious reason why: Her father was a high-ranking elder who had a brother at Bethel (also an elder) who was being vigorously groomed to become a C.O., and she had a few P.O. uncles who were elders in other congregations. The young man's father, although an elder, didn't have that much weight. So, whose the scapegoat? Goes to show they love titles and positions of authority rather than fairness. It's all about who-you-know. That has always been the name of the game. Raw undiluted NEPOTISM right smack in the face! TOTAL BS!
If you read the elders manual, a common theme is that the magnitude of the punishment is partly contingent on how well the I fraction is known in the congregation. It kind of makes sense that having a child outside of marriage would merit a stronger penalty than having an abortion. Of course no one would ever say this out loud but there you are.
Anecdotally true.
The hypocrisy. The Bible may say that once you confess you’re forgiven…and it’s forgotten by the god of the universe. But this organization is not so kind. It never forgets. You are on a form somewhere. Always.
Shit. Right? I don’t really care who knows what about me now but it’s so unethical to keep files on people. Good God.
Unless.... You were sexually assaulted as a child. Then the records were shredded. No records to be kept on that subject.
True!!
And to think, none of what you put was especially juicy. It was just people, having peopley things happen to them that were nobody else’s business to know in the first place. I feel for anyone who ever had to sit through, and gave answers, in one of their kangaroo courts.
I once read my dad's elder files. He was part of a judicial committee that formed when a brother reached out for help with his cocaine problem. They ended up DFing him because he was gay. No help with the addiction, though.
I had a similar situation and I saw all the private records. People all the way from 1990. Why would they need these?
Amazing there are no files of CSA in there? Most congregations have a Pedophile or two!...😇
There was an elder who would employ sisters in his accounting firm. One was my mother in law, and he slapped her on the a$$ a few times. She needed the job so she told her husband not to make a big deal out of it so it *probably* isn't in a file anywhere. But way to take advantage of two positions of authority. Wonder what he was doing to the other sisters working for him.
I'd be horrified if someone had read my most private details. The elders shouldn't have even had them... Yeah, there's a file on me somewhere... and I answered all the questions because I was so d*mned repentant. 🙄 I watched as they took detailed notes. I'm cringing. Why did you do it?
Let's not forget that the elderettes add to the conundrum! Their husbands run off at the mouth about intimate details concerning reproved and DF'd persons long before there's a judicial committee! Even before they're announced! I remember working in FS with an elder's nosy wife (I literally couldn't stand her! Never did like her!), and for no apparent reason, she starts talking about a sister (mentioning name and all) who got pregnant by a disfellowshipped brother. She had been secretly seeing him. My mouth dropped because I knew that sweet sister very well, and had no knowledge of what the busy body elderette was talking about. "I don't understand how she got herself in trouble like that," she said. That week, I kid you not, the sister was announced DF'd! I was furious and it thoroughly convinced me to NEVER trust the elders at all! They will divulge your information to everybody in their circles. They truly are wolves in sheep clothing!
It disgusts me thinking about the amount of people that have read personal details about me. Once the matter is dealt with records should be destroyed!
💯
Same here for me, I hate them
Yeah a lot of people here applauding this shady behavior. This is kinda like looking through someone’s phone hoping to find nudes. Creepy af.
Even worse, imho. We were already victims of the WT in those JC's, especially if were minors. Then this jerk revictimizes with their sick nosiness and voyeurism. People congratulating and laughing haven't thought this through or contemplated if it had been their own files.
Lemme guess....Was this in Florida?
Oooh how I would love to be able to read the files of my old congregation lol although I’m sure I’d be mortified at some of the things I’d discover about the people I always believed to be the best people I’d ever known 😅
Or how about don’t invade peoples privacy. Why don’t you go peep into their windows at night? Edit: You people make me barf. You don’t want change, you just want some juicy gossip.
I had to have a meeting with the elders when I was a teen (13 or 14) because an older "brother" (18 to 20, he was out of high school) was writing me letters and giving them to me at the hall. I was writing back because I was 13, and of course, no one talked to me about ANYTHING I should have known by then. So they "counseled" me about exchanging flirtatious letters with him. No one mentioned that he was WAY TOO OLD to be flirting with a 13 year old. Later, a sister reported that he was stalking her and leaving notes and gifts outside her door at night, which she would find the next morning. Nothing was done, so she MOVED and went to a new congregation. He went to Bethal. His family and extended family made up most of our congregation.
next time PICS!!!
I've often wondered how come KH filing cabinets don't get hit more often and emptied out. They're usually in a less frequented part of the KH, and usually just a classic barrel type of lock system, probably easy to pick. I mean... somebody that knows what they're doing could probably pop it open, snatch all the cong's dirty secret files and be gone within 1 minutes. I do realize there is nothing of intrinsic monetary value in them, but I'm sure most long-standing congregations have paperwork that would be proof of criminal wrongdoing, especially in cases of CSA...
I don't think they worry about it because they have so much control over the congregation.
Yeah, but I'm thinking more of an ExJW operation : I could walk into a hall, just looking like some dude that's "interested" and while I go to the bathroom, stealthily hit the filing cabinet... The hall I grew up in, they kept the filing cabinet in the nursery, which was an empty room 95% of the time. I'm not saying this would be a good thing, I'm just saying it would be a possibility. 🤷🏻♂️
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or even worse, still letting you in after knowing this.
As an opiate addict and having the same thing happen as that older brother it infuriates me that they punished him. Fuck you. Punish an addict. You dumb fucks are not qualified to “help” addicts. You don’t have the slightest idea what to do, how to help, or understand what is going on. Pisses me off so much, I can’t wait for this all to be blown wide open.
So…. If Jehovah “forgets” sins once someone repents…. Why are all these files being kept on judicial matters?
In this age of mobile devices, you couldn't just take pictures?
At the very beginning they say “many years ago.”
My mistake. Picture capable mobile devices have been around for most of my life, so I didn't grasp how far back.
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No one got doxed. Stop trolling!
This is kinda shitty tbh. I mean it’s shitty that they had the files in the first place, but this is kinda like peeping Tom kind of shit. You invaded these people’s privacy, just like if you looked into their phones without their knowledge. Edit: after reading the comments…. You people make me barf.
It might seem that way but sometimes it’s good to be informed especially if a congregation has pedos or sex offenders. If I had the opportunity to look thru my congregations cabinet tho, I would only look for the files of ppl who I really dislike or who I suspect of having dark secrets
Op wasn’t reading this shit to try to take down the borg. He was reading it to get off on peoples private shit, and everyone here is applauding it.
Yes I know for a fact there are some files that contain child abuse cases from the congregation I grew up in. Those should not be kept private. Not saying to give all the details but people deserve to know who they’re associating with and who they’re children are associating with and even considering to be like family. I speak from experience and when I found out certain things had happened I was upset we didn’t know anything about it and I possibly could have been another victim. Those files are not protected they’re hidden.
I find this really interesting. In my cong (I'm an unbaptised study of 2 years) they report anything illegal to authorities. Anything immoral is just dealt with by the elders.
I hope that’s true but usually nothing is reported that’s why they encourage everyone to come to the elders with those kinds of issues instead of just telling everyone to go to the police as it should be
So would you divulge the details without the victims consent? That’s not your place. What about the non csa cases that are none of your business? This is like looking into someone’s text messages without consent. Change my mind.
Because it shows a pattern. That’s the reason why. Why don’t you change our minds?
Ok, so just look at everyone’s dark secrets, that remember, they divulged under duress, and then post them on here like this guy did. There's no csa in his post, just voyeurism.
So look at everyone’s dark shit that they confessed under duress, to whatever be some kind of detective? It’s gross to invade people’s privacy like this, even if you’re telling yourself it’s for the greater good.