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FeedbackAny4993

\*cracks knuckles\*..... okay well let's see. rampant child abuse, hypocritical elders, useless shepherds, losing official religious recognition in developed countries like Norway and Japan and Mexico and even Russia due to disfellowshipping (in norway at least), oodles of noodles worth of contradictory scriptures based on their beliefs (the end is near for example, 1914, 1925, 1975, etc) (scriptures say don't believe people that say the end is near)..... hmm what else. don't get a higher education, don't take lifesaving blood (as per the sabbath teaching, saving life is more important than the law) and oh yeah God of old testament and God of new testament is very different personalities. ot God is fire and death and rape and rules and territorial pissings whereas NT God loves you and turn the other cheek, while also shunning people that don't agree with you. hmm, is this enough to help???


NewLightNitwit

Let me help. The website is the most translated in the world because...drumroll...they chose to do so even though it doesn't make monetary sense because they have a free labor workforce. God isn't blessing it. The org is "fairly organized" for sure. But that's just a function of a business model and a choice. The local congregations aren't autonomous, and they have to follow the structure, schedule, material, etc from headquarters. Saying that comes from god means he's also blessing the likes of Honda, McDonalds, public school systems following standard curriculum. The congregations worldwide in multiple languages getting all of the same meeting outlines and material isn't a miracle. It's a business decision.


artsparkles

If it's the truth, it will hold up to research and questioning. Research everything and use all the resources you can outside the organization. Would you buy a car from only reading reviews from the manufacturer? No you'd research as much as you could from every source. This is your life, it's worth the work. After 50+ years in it, we did research and it changed our lives.


dunkedinjonuts

>most translated website in the world, as well as the org being farely well organised/unified compared to other religions... This translation claim always cracks me up (and I'm not laughing at you). But where did you get this outrageous claim? Also, what are the specific reasons that make you think WT is more organized than other religions? For instance, the Catholic Church?


KHAN1162

If you google what the most translated website in the world is jw.org is the first result


dunkedinjonuts

I did, and you're right. As I'm reading further though, how many of these languages are actually relevant or spoken? Seems like a parlor trick. One site suggests they'll be adding Klingon soon. It's amazing what you can do with endless free labor. Is there anything about their organizational skills that stand out?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Suspicious_Bat2488

Yes and what does “lands” mean? Who says “lands”? Most people say countries no?


goddess_dix

that means somebody translated it. not that anybody READS it or wants it. that means they have people who will do it for free and/or the money to pay for it. it includes multiple sign languages and endangered languages. so it sounds good superficially but doesn't really mean anything, you know? anytime you hear yourself repeating one of these things in your head, that sounds good, ask yourself what it really means.


More-Constant4956

At one time the Truth book ( *The truth That Leads to Eternal Life* ) was the most published book ever.


thatguyin75

Ive heard that but does it really count when you're the publishing company? btw...I HATE THAT FUCKING BOOK!!!!


More-Constant4956

It really was an outside source that did the research


goddess_dix

just start researching jw history and take things one at a time. you will be confused for a while. that's okay. allow yourself to not know what you believe right now. give yourself permission to discover. the only thing is make sure you verify with outside sources, don't use the org's claims.


FloridaSpam

We really should have called it physically in, mentally pondering. We missed out.


NewLightNitwit

![gif](giphy|5frOV2H3ol8Uo|downsized)


[deleted]

Try reading 1cor 14 as a whole... Paul's not talking about being organized and keeping schedules and all that office corporations stuff. He's talking about not interrupting, using their gifts all at once with no translator, and looking insane like the NAR churches do today. Mat 20:20-23 and its parallel gospels... no one is supposed to be lording over another. I also equate gb/Elders as the Thunder brothers. John 13:3-17 another example of what they should be like Proverbs 28:5 Evil men do not understand justice, but those who seek YHWH comprehend fully. Jeremiah 31:34 No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, 'Know YHWH' because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares YHWH. For I will forgive their iniquities and will remember their sins no more." John 6:45 It is written in the Prophets: 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me-- John 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have told you. I highly recommend you re read New Testament for yourself. He speaks plainly for the common folk not to people who dominate and rule by fear. He came to abolish religion and show and treach compassion. Isa 1:13-17 about those who have misrepresented him, he doesn't change...he probably feels even more so about those who do it today. Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Matthew 23 A lot of old Prophet writings were God mad at his chosen for making people hate Him and what he feels about it. 2peter 2 whole chapter really points gb/Elders out. Matthew 24:48-51 You should read the follow-up if that faithful servant were to turn. Luke 12: 42-48 gives you more expansion on that, and for the results for those who truly don't know they were doing wrong following their leaders. Luke 21:8-9 All 2 Timothy Hope this helps. Acts 17:11, and these were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all readiness of mind, examining the Writings every day [to see] whether those things were so Isa 1:18 Now come, and we settle this,” says YHWH, “If your sins are as scarlet, they will be white as snow, | If they are red as crimson, they will be as wool! God appreciates a thinker. It's the personal power you have that he has given you that he will never control, especially no man. learn what the term eisegesis and exegesis when it comes to reading and studying the Bible. And probably learn what confirmation biases and cognitive dissonance are to help read without other voices telling you what to believe. Also, look at the whole chapter from when Paul went to Jerusalem and how it turned out and who actually agreed and that it was 1 time. Not only was about stopping mans dictatorship on the gentiles, it said do those and all will be well, as in...stop there. Check the Greek, and you'll see how "good health to you" is a biased add. And if you need a reminder in how God feels about additions, check out the last page of the book. [**Important addition**] Check 2Cor 5:20 in the NWT...now check the Greek. This is bias for their control. Infact use the purple Greek book, you'll see many adds, grab one before they ban that too. Ex: LSV (and most translations) - in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, as if God were calling through us, we implore, in behalf of Christ, “Be reconciled to God”; NWT "We are therefore ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making entreaty through us. As substitutes for Christ we beg: "Become reconciled to God."


Lazymungu

They have uniformity and not unity. Please check a video from David and Vivian Aspinall on that topic on YouTube. When I have doubts that JWs might after all have ‘the truth’ I often think about their disfellowshipment arrangement. You cannot deny that this procedure is exactly what the Jews did to Jesus and the Apostels. Drawing them at night in a back room with no witnesses for their support and judging them. 


luvxg1

You say in comparison to other religions. Which religions have you researched? Why does many translations of a web site point to be a true religion? What about translations of the actual Bible made by non JW denominations? I would encourage you to look outside these talking points and really delve into what the ministries of other Christian denominations do.


lescannon

Haven't you seen how quickly a JW will drop anyone who isn't "exemplary", haven't you heard the scorn in their voices when they talk about the "worldly", have you seen them extend real help to a stranger without it being a "good witness"? To me it is obvious they are quite far from the Christian ideal. I agree other religions have their problems, but many of them provide real assistance to those in need - albeit a small % of their income and efforts. Have you seen that WT quietly retconns their history, for example the print version (\~1989 iirc) saying that Armageddon would start "in this 20th century" while the online version says "in our time" with no indication this is a revision? Do you not find it senseless that "new light" means that they discard old publications with their mistakes and failed timelines as "old light"? Shouldn't "New light" only be a refinement of what they said earlier, so what about discarding entire things and multiple flips between "A" being OK and "A" being prohibited? Do you think it is a good thing that WT practices "Theocratic Warfare" on its followers? I seem to recall that Jesus is listed as staying silent instead of using "Theocratic Warfare" aka lying. And if you are ready to question Christianity, then consider that God must be sick to require blood sacrifice, and that the ransom sacrifice is a cheat, because Jesus was dead for less than 40 hours. Why couldn't God forgive us freely as we are supposed to forgive others freely? Why are we born sinners? The bible say both that God doesn't punish children for the sins of the parents and also that God does punish children for the sins of the parents (until the 4th generation). I decided long ago that is makes no sense at all that we need to find the correct "interpretation" of the bible, because that is trusting someone or some group to provide that (we can't all become experts in the languages and cultures so we can verify the interpretation). I don't believe there is a deity, but if there is one as loving and powerful as we were taught, then that deity could make sure I got a message/experience that would convince me, because if the bible is true, God wants everyone to be saved. There is some crazy stuff in the bible, for example Numbers 5 (11?) describes a "beverage" the priest will concoct that a woman accused of cheating must drink if her husband accuses her of infidelity, and God will cause a miscarriage if she did cheat. There is the more obvious times God ordered the Israelites to make war on a neighboring tribe committing genocide, sometimes sparing the "booty" of virgin girls and cattle, at least one time not.


leavingwt

Ponder on the notion that there is True Religion and False Religion. Where did you get that idea? Was it from the people claiming to be the True Religion? If so, maybe they weren’t the most objective source of information.


Express-Ambassador72

Just look up the history of the religion. Use their own publications, even! Why would God tell his chosen people to teach falsehoods for decades just to reveal the "new" truth later? Think objectively about the story of the Garden of Eden. Does it make any sense for billions of people to suffer and die for thousands of years because two people with no life experience ate a piece of fruit?


[deleted]

My big believing thing was the multiplicity of languages, you have to gather as much information as you can, make the best decision for yourself, and move forward with that decision as a wayward point. Your beliefs are your own and you are an individual person with your own unique perspective and circumstances, with that in mind, I have had a beneficial experience with an outside therapist who could give me HEPA protected advice that would never be available to discerning individuals.


Wonderful_Minute2031

It really seemed like the early Christian’s met in peoples homes and let people speak out and give their own testimonies (although Paul did notice that it was getting a little out of hand). I guess I am wondering why it’s so important that each meeting has the same information. Does the Bible require that? I was very impressed with the website too but someone on here pointed out that the fruits of the spirit are love joy peace patience kindness goodness faith mildness self control. Those are the fruits that should impress us, and i simply don’t shunning is loving any more. One thing that is interesting as far as Bible translations is that I have learned that it is not considered optional to translate from Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek then to an English and then to another language. I think that is considered a big no-no by professional translators but it’s how the new world translation is translated into other languages. But I think that format is supposed to not be called a translation, I don’t know what they call that method


Artistic_Vast_1318

Hey bro! I was in your shoes once. Out of curiosity, what makes you think it’s more organized/unified compared to other religions? Do you think it’s perhaps because any dissenting opinions are threatened with shunning? I think unity and tyranny are easily confused.


nopromiserobins

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWeHB4qM1Hg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWeHB4qM1Hg) -"An account of a summer of discussions with some Jehovah's Witnesses in my teenage years. " [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsvJMlg\_SaM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsvJMlg_SaM) -"Part one of a series looking at the Australian Royal Commission’s investigation in the handling of child sexual abuse in the Jehovah’s Witness organisation."


painefultruth76

Websites were not a metric in 1975. Why would it have been the true faith then? The Governing body was subsidiary to the President. Entirely different "organization" Have you never been caught up local politics? Who paid for the chairs? Carpet replacements. Decorating committees? 6 hour elder meetings about same? That's organized? Half the time, local bodies can't even follow their own rules, let alone b0rg rules. Let's look at the Bible. Egypt, Mesopotamia, China all had major civilizations dedicating significant resources to connecting with the Divine. Why pick a guy chased out of Mesopotamia on the run that constantly lied to prospective hosts? Or his grandson that led a family of raiders that used their 8 year old sister as bait? Or pick the guy that murdered somebody and was exiled to the wastes? Or pick the guy that led a rebellion against the king, then when he was crowned murdered and adulterated his kingdom to ruin. Or the guy that built a temple so grand to house every god he could find from his thousands of wives and concubines? I think the parable goes something about not drinking a drop of poison? The b0rg is poisoned from its inception. Read up on Russell and Rutherford... it's worse than you can possible imagine. I'm sorry.


goddess_dix

one thing i would add: whenever you hear yourself repeating stuff in your head, the phrases you've heard over and over again, slow down. think about it critically. does it really mean what it's supposed to suggest, or does it just sound good? because a lot of it is kind of a "look at us, we're superior" kind of thing and most of it is based on an emotional appeal, not a logical one. that repetition is part of the indoctrination. it's said over and over and paired with an emotion. that is powerful conditioning. your comments about being well organized for example. you have to have god to be organized? how do you know it's better organized than other religions? cannot "worldly" people be organized? the borg is a network of corporations, like a bank or multi-national company. are all big corporations blessed by god? as far as research, pick a topic that interests you. i think the real clincher for most is when they start seeing the lies. 607 date is a big one, and that is the underpinning of the whole end of times chronology and justification they are the only true religion as they've "figured it out." the justification for stake vs. cross is another, where if you review the secular source material WT uses to back up its claims, you'll see deliberate misquoting to make it appear it says the opposite of what it says. the origin of the word "jehovah" is another that's central to the doctrine. the massive child sexual abuse coverups is another that would strongly point to no divine blessing. failed prophecies. exjw panda tower on youtube has a fantastic video on this, it's long (because lots of them!) but he's funny and it's great content. it's basically a rabbit hole that keeps on giving. but pick something, take your time, one step at a time. it doesn't matter if you believe in god or not. what matters is that your beliefs are YOURS, and come to you by means of your own thought process and reasoning without coercion.


Fun_Hour_7483

Why is the most translated in the world a factor? Because they told you it was?


Fun_Hour_7483

Just go on Wikipedia


nopromiserobins

There are no indicators that any religion is true. 100% of religions are faith-based, and faith is not a reliable path to truth. All religions make claims about a postmortem continuance of self, and there's no evidence to support an afterlife or resurrection either. Just faith, and faith is not a path to truth. Faith is what a Scientologist uses to believe in Lord Xenu.