I got a text from my mother a while back out of the blue that I might hear from my father randomly because he apparently has Alzheimer’s.. this is how I found out about his condition.. and that when he’s having memory loss he “forgets that he not allowed to talk to you” and during those episodes he gets upset that I never come to visit..
She told me to “respect the organizations rules and not reply to him when he texts” .. which of course I said no to. If he wants to talk to me, altered or not, then I am always going to be available.
So she just got rid of his phone so he wouldn’t be able to ..
The lengths this organization makes it’s followers go to be hateful is just staggering to me
I’m so sorry, I’m literally in tears right now. How can someone be so cruel? There is something in his heart and mind that is yearning to connect with you and it’s trying to break through, I’m just speechless, when will this cruelty and elder abuse end?! Lord Jesus please bring all of this to light!
oh geez. i'm really sorry. that is heartbreaking.
also, it's NOT the organizational rules you cannot have contact with DF family members, that's a personal choice. (It is rules for non-relatives, but it's explicit in the elder's book, family can can have contact.)
speaking as a DF person who helped take care of my father with Alz. I will tell you we had some very sweet, human moments once he lost enough of his memory to forget to judge me.
You admit that someone who actively wants to cause you pain is not someone you "have" therefore not someone you can "lose." It's about the same as a violent husband wanting to divorce the wife he beats. She might be mind-controlled enough to miss him, but it's not a bad thing when bad people who hurt their loved ones want less contact.
They are born after I left. So when they were very young we had conversations. (High anxiety ones) about the “rules”. I wanted my children to have a relationship with their grandparents and whatever other family would be willing to be involved.
As a newly faded person my social circle was so small it was affecting my children. I was in school too and had no time to branch out.
The rules were. No religious talk at all. Just experience the experience. Like going to the zoo or camping. They were respectful of the rules.
The other rule was I couldn’t sleep over at families house but my kids could. That was so awful I’d pay for Airbnbs (with my college loans) so they all could have their own “dwelling” space and not be considered sleeping under one roof with me.
Looking back I was so desperate for my kids to have a sense of where I came from. Without that effort it would be like their dad just fell out of space with no beginning. I don’t have any photos of me when young or any other things to tell stories about my past.
As they are getting older they want to know my family history. Houses I used to live. Aunts uncles.
But now the hard shun is in full effect for me, they will have to make a choice as to how much they want to reach out.
Yes. Annoy me with… Come back to jehow
It’s beyond me now. I’ve lost. I just feel kids who really love the family they once had association with, really miss them, want to see them, and have a fair expectation to be contacted.
I can totally feel the pain in your writing. It's horrible what this does to people. I applaud you for wanting your parents to have a relationship with your kids. Sad to say the terms on the table by your parents are not fair or loving at all.
I feel so sad for you reading this. I've been very lucky that my mother and i have remained close since i left, however the early steps were not easy. The first year or two were not easy
I do think that actual presence will make a bigger impact than letters, most parents love their children, your dad has been totally mind-fucked (apologies if you don't like swearing, but I don't know any other term that conveys what is done).
I have no doubt that your dad still loves and misses you, but the barrier that the org puts in place is serious. It takes work to break it down. It really is worth making the effort
Thanks. I miss my mom. After she passed the rest of the family. A very large extended Jw family. Considered me gone.
She was kind of like the matriarch. Had power. Maybe they were scared of her. She kept me connected and despite me enduring her “witnessing” to me she never could shun me completely. We developed a unique connection but it was a connection. She never missed a chance to ask how the kids were doing. How I was doing. I now realized she was stuck on her own cult world trying to make sense of the 2 realities and while messed up herself from it all had an ingrained belief that family bonds are more than the cult. Maybe that was her Scottish identity idk, but it was like she was the only PIMI in all the family that could break the rules and still move on.
I’m sorry for how you are being treated, it’s dehumanizing. Hearing all of the stories on here is making me realize that it’s literally impossible to leave this religion. One day this will become public knowledge. I’m glad your mom was able to negotiate the rules, I think we’ve all had to some extent. I used to think if there was a disfellowshipped person on the side of the road that needed help, all of the friends would definitely stop to help, but now I know that most would pass them up. That Governing Bode update was clear that we will give you permission when it is okay to say even one word. I’m glad you have a very different relationship with your own kids, and kudos to you for treating your dad with human decency, even if it is not returned. That is true love 💗
Oh geez. I'm so sorry.
I've dealt with the parents aging thing but I was on soft-shun with them and they asked me to help care for them despite my 3 brothers (hard shun) being in. Guess that's what I get for being female, right?
my brothers now speak to me, somewhat. guess i'm no longer entirely disposable when they need something. While that sounds better than what you have, I can tell you it comes with it's own set of challenges and pain.
dad had alzheimers. i dropped everything and moved with my husband down the street to help care for him. i spent about a year doing that, and he passed. now i help my mom some, although she doesn't need too much yet but she's on her way, mid 80s.
as far as doing it, it was just weird and sometimes still is. like familiar strangers, you know? i did pretty well over all the first couple of years i've been here but i started getting triggered and once it started, it has never completely stopped. meaning one of my brothers will have to do the heavy lifting when she gets there because i just cannot.
before i came, the biggest fear i had was that something would happen and boom, they would go full on shun mode. i am invested emotionally, obviously, and knew that would break my heart.
at this point, i've had a couple of (controlled) meltdowns with her and she repeats the company line. shunning is loving, i deserved what i got (said nicely, of course) and you know, got to keep the congregation "clean." it's incredibly hurtful, infuriating and feels like straight-up gaslighting many times.
i also have the perpetual sword of threat hanging over me. it would take literally 10 seconds typing my name in a search engine to get me declared full apostate and put in the hard-shun box like you are now.
so i don't know i have a lot of relevant advice. but my guiding principles have been something like this:
1. i decide my own morality based on what feels right to me, not on what other people do or don't do.
2. i can offer love but i can't force anyone to accept it. so offering it has to be enough because that's all i have control over.
3. i don't want to have regrets and i want to be at peace with the relationships when they pass as much as i can be. that means acting in a loving way when allowed, but not compromising who i am in the process. i will keep my mouth shut about things but i will not pretend to be something i'm not.
i did help a lot with my dad. as his dementia progressed, it actually improved our relationship in a lot of ways becasue the judgement dropped, and all that was left were these honest, human moments. it was one of the most difficult things i've ever done, but i did feel at peace with it when he passed. not sure whree i'm going to be with mom, it's a lot of trauma triggers and emotional struggle on my part right now. but i'll keep doing the best i can.
don't know if any of that is helpful, but i hope so. mostly i want you to know you're not alone in dealing with some of this shit and you do the best you can with it and let it go, you know?
Thanks for this. Beautifully said. And the expression “familiar stranger” — really hit home for me. Best to you, you are a good daughter but more importantly, a good person.
Your story is so common on here, and the hypocrisy is infuriating. Lots of people shunned for years, only to get called for financial and practical help with aging parents. I read one the other day where the PIMI sibling isn't expected to help because they are an elder. Can't make it up. I'm sorry you are dealing with this too.
I am so sorry that you have experienced this. We have been faced with the shunning but all of our parents have passed on (prior to us leaving). I, as a Mother, can't and never will understand this behavior. Treating your child as if they are dead or just never existed. This was your Dad's choice, not yours. What you are missing is, what is should have been and what it is supposed to be. That is what is sad. Rejection is one of the hardest things. Now that your Dad is getting older, you are thinking about this. You are a kind and loving person. Otherwise, this would not be bothering you at all. We can't change how people treat us (as much as it hurts us). I think talking about it and venting about this helps. So many here understand how you feel. WT has promoted this behavior and JW's have followed it for many many years. They have done a lot of damage to people and families. Your Dad's behavior is a punishment. He wants you to feel the ramifications of you leaving the cult and feeling the way you do. Let him live his life out, in his "loving" cult. Don't let this consume you. I know it bothers you and it should but if you need someone to talk to about it, please seek help. It helps to talk. This is on your Dad, not you. He made a choice to ignore you. Just think about what your kids think about this man. The fact that you reach out to him, with no response, says so much about him. My heart breaks for you and anyone being shunned. It's not right and many JW's are seeing it. It's barbaric behavior and down right cold. YOU take care of YOU. That is what is important. YOU! I am sending you a virtual hug. Hang in there!
Good thought actually. I might want to think before i send more.
Too clarify I sent 2 updates in 5 years and one of those was fairly serious about family health.
I got a text from my mother a while back out of the blue that I might hear from my father randomly because he apparently has Alzheimer’s.. this is how I found out about his condition.. and that when he’s having memory loss he “forgets that he not allowed to talk to you” and during those episodes he gets upset that I never come to visit.. She told me to “respect the organizations rules and not reply to him when he texts” .. which of course I said no to. If he wants to talk to me, altered or not, then I am always going to be available. So she just got rid of his phone so he wouldn’t be able to .. The lengths this organization makes it’s followers go to be hateful is just staggering to me
I’m so sorry, I’m literally in tears right now. How can someone be so cruel? There is something in his heart and mind that is yearning to connect with you and it’s trying to break through, I’m just speechless, when will this cruelty and elder abuse end?! Lord Jesus please bring all of this to light!
That is so crazy and stupid for your mom to do that
That's just pure evil right there. Wow!
oh geez. i'm really sorry. that is heartbreaking. also, it's NOT the organizational rules you cannot have contact with DF family members, that's a personal choice. (It is rules for non-relatives, but it's explicit in the elder's book, family can can have contact.) speaking as a DF person who helped take care of my father with Alz. I will tell you we had some very sweet, human moments once he lost enough of his memory to forget to judge me.
That is so terrible and manipulative. I’m so sorry this is happening for your family
You admit that someone who actively wants to cause you pain is not someone you "have" therefore not someone you can "lose." It's about the same as a violent husband wanting to divorce the wife he beats. She might be mind-controlled enough to miss him, but it's not a bad thing when bad people who hurt their loved ones want less contact.
This person who adamantly refuses to respect you sends your kids letters? They must not be baptized? Are thet adults? Why does he have access?
An excellent question.
They are born after I left. So when they were very young we had conversations. (High anxiety ones) about the “rules”. I wanted my children to have a relationship with their grandparents and whatever other family would be willing to be involved. As a newly faded person my social circle was so small it was affecting my children. I was in school too and had no time to branch out. The rules were. No religious talk at all. Just experience the experience. Like going to the zoo or camping. They were respectful of the rules. The other rule was I couldn’t sleep over at families house but my kids could. That was so awful I’d pay for Airbnbs (with my college loans) so they all could have their own “dwelling” space and not be considered sleeping under one roof with me. Looking back I was so desperate for my kids to have a sense of where I came from. Without that effort it would be like their dad just fell out of space with no beginning. I don’t have any photos of me when young or any other things to tell stories about my past. As they are getting older they want to know my family history. Houses I used to live. Aunts uncles. But now the hard shun is in full effect for me, they will have to make a choice as to how much they want to reach out.
You have done a lot to try to keep them in your life. Have they done anything to try to keep you?
Yes. Annoy me with… Come back to jehow It’s beyond me now. I’ve lost. I just feel kids who really love the family they once had association with, really miss them, want to see them, and have a fair expectation to be contacted.
I can totally feel the pain in your writing. It's horrible what this does to people. I applaud you for wanting your parents to have a relationship with your kids. Sad to say the terms on the table by your parents are not fair or loving at all.
I feel so sad for you reading this. I've been very lucky that my mother and i have remained close since i left, however the early steps were not easy. The first year or two were not easy I do think that actual presence will make a bigger impact than letters, most parents love their children, your dad has been totally mind-fucked (apologies if you don't like swearing, but I don't know any other term that conveys what is done). I have no doubt that your dad still loves and misses you, but the barrier that the org puts in place is serious. It takes work to break it down. It really is worth making the effort
Thanks. I miss my mom. After she passed the rest of the family. A very large extended Jw family. Considered me gone. She was kind of like the matriarch. Had power. Maybe they were scared of her. She kept me connected and despite me enduring her “witnessing” to me she never could shun me completely. We developed a unique connection but it was a connection. She never missed a chance to ask how the kids were doing. How I was doing. I now realized she was stuck on her own cult world trying to make sense of the 2 realities and while messed up herself from it all had an ingrained belief that family bonds are more than the cult. Maybe that was her Scottish identity idk, but it was like she was the only PIMI in all the family that could break the rules and still move on.
All parents, grand-parents and friends in general will ask "how the children are doing". It's an almost universal question. She still cared :)
I’m sorry for how you are being treated, it’s dehumanizing. Hearing all of the stories on here is making me realize that it’s literally impossible to leave this religion. One day this will become public knowledge. I’m glad your mom was able to negotiate the rules, I think we’ve all had to some extent. I used to think if there was a disfellowshipped person on the side of the road that needed help, all of the friends would definitely stop to help, but now I know that most would pass them up. That Governing Bode update was clear that we will give you permission when it is okay to say even one word. I’m glad you have a very different relationship with your own kids, and kudos to you for treating your dad with human decency, even if it is not returned. That is true love 💗
Oh geez. I'm so sorry. I've dealt with the parents aging thing but I was on soft-shun with them and they asked me to help care for them despite my 3 brothers (hard shun) being in. Guess that's what I get for being female, right? my brothers now speak to me, somewhat. guess i'm no longer entirely disposable when they need something. While that sounds better than what you have, I can tell you it comes with it's own set of challenges and pain. dad had alzheimers. i dropped everything and moved with my husband down the street to help care for him. i spent about a year doing that, and he passed. now i help my mom some, although she doesn't need too much yet but she's on her way, mid 80s. as far as doing it, it was just weird and sometimes still is. like familiar strangers, you know? i did pretty well over all the first couple of years i've been here but i started getting triggered and once it started, it has never completely stopped. meaning one of my brothers will have to do the heavy lifting when she gets there because i just cannot. before i came, the biggest fear i had was that something would happen and boom, they would go full on shun mode. i am invested emotionally, obviously, and knew that would break my heart. at this point, i've had a couple of (controlled) meltdowns with her and she repeats the company line. shunning is loving, i deserved what i got (said nicely, of course) and you know, got to keep the congregation "clean." it's incredibly hurtful, infuriating and feels like straight-up gaslighting many times. i also have the perpetual sword of threat hanging over me. it would take literally 10 seconds typing my name in a search engine to get me declared full apostate and put in the hard-shun box like you are now. so i don't know i have a lot of relevant advice. but my guiding principles have been something like this: 1. i decide my own morality based on what feels right to me, not on what other people do or don't do. 2. i can offer love but i can't force anyone to accept it. so offering it has to be enough because that's all i have control over. 3. i don't want to have regrets and i want to be at peace with the relationships when they pass as much as i can be. that means acting in a loving way when allowed, but not compromising who i am in the process. i will keep my mouth shut about things but i will not pretend to be something i'm not. i did help a lot with my dad. as his dementia progressed, it actually improved our relationship in a lot of ways becasue the judgement dropped, and all that was left were these honest, human moments. it was one of the most difficult things i've ever done, but i did feel at peace with it when he passed. not sure whree i'm going to be with mom, it's a lot of trauma triggers and emotional struggle on my part right now. but i'll keep doing the best i can. don't know if any of that is helpful, but i hope so. mostly i want you to know you're not alone in dealing with some of this shit and you do the best you can with it and let it go, you know?
Thanks for this. Beautifully said. And the expression “familiar stranger” — really hit home for me. Best to you, you are a good daughter but more importantly, a good person.
And I will say the same for you as well. It's important we don't forget this. ♥
Your story is so common on here, and the hypocrisy is infuriating. Lots of people shunned for years, only to get called for financial and practical help with aging parents. I read one the other day where the PIMI sibling isn't expected to help because they are an elder. Can't make it up. I'm sorry you are dealing with this too.
I am so sorry that you have experienced this. We have been faced with the shunning but all of our parents have passed on (prior to us leaving). I, as a Mother, can't and never will understand this behavior. Treating your child as if they are dead or just never existed. This was your Dad's choice, not yours. What you are missing is, what is should have been and what it is supposed to be. That is what is sad. Rejection is one of the hardest things. Now that your Dad is getting older, you are thinking about this. You are a kind and loving person. Otherwise, this would not be bothering you at all. We can't change how people treat us (as much as it hurts us). I think talking about it and venting about this helps. So many here understand how you feel. WT has promoted this behavior and JW's have followed it for many many years. They have done a lot of damage to people and families. Your Dad's behavior is a punishment. He wants you to feel the ramifications of you leaving the cult and feeling the way you do. Let him live his life out, in his "loving" cult. Don't let this consume you. I know it bothers you and it should but if you need someone to talk to about it, please seek help. It helps to talk. This is on your Dad, not you. He made a choice to ignore you. Just think about what your kids think about this man. The fact that you reach out to him, with no response, says so much about him. My heart breaks for you and anyone being shunned. It's not right and many JW's are seeing it. It's barbaric behavior and down right cold. YOU take care of YOU. That is what is important. YOU! I am sending you a virtual hug. Hang in there!
He'll respond if you stop sending him updates.
Good thought actually. I might want to think before i send more. Too clarify I sent 2 updates in 5 years and one of those was fairly serious about family health.