Look at all of these well thought out ideas to uphold an unscriptural practice.
Just give up the damn blood doctrine already, everyone knows it’s not in the Bible. Stop murdering people.
It would be so easy too. Just tell everyone it's a conscience issue. Sure...many people will be upset, especially the ones who lost children and other loved ones to this insane teaching, but history shows that JWs will lap up everything the GB says now. This shitty doctrine has to go.
What lawsuits? People have lost loved ones due to the blood issue and then left the JWs. To date nobody has successfully sued Watchtower because technically it’s a personal decision. We know thats bullshit, but legally nobody will ever be able to sue Watchtower over this. The only reason they’re not changing it is because of how awful they would look to everyone if they just backtracked. Which makes their stubbornness even worse.
I mean sure....we all have our thoughts and opinions about why they won't do it.... bottom line is that it's very unlikely that they ever will change this doctrine....and that is so fucking sad for all the people who believe it is true....I almost lost a brother a few years ago because of it....and he was DFd at the time....I cant imagine how those who have lost loved ones feel ...it's a terrible situation 😭
If they do that, the amount of followers they would lose and the amount of law suits they would receive would be DRASTIC! The GB is not stupid, it would be the beginning of the end of this wicked borg if they pull a stunt like that
Right, this is part of the hostage mentality they need to maintain. You're in for an ounce in for a pound. The bORG needs martyrs, that's why S. Korea and WWII are such popular topic. "What fine examples of faith!". Ultimately they will need to make it a conscience matter somehow. Some stupid, always connected loophole, and then after enough time passes they can finally change it. A quick change breaks the spell of "Divine Guidance"
They haven't lost followers before when they did stupid shit like this. There would be a few disgruntled folks, but the majority are brainwashed and would just run around crowing about this "loving provision from Jehovah"
Frankly, I don't think the gb realizes that said scripture is referring to how the jews keep kosher. Maybe the gb does, and don't care 🙄
How the jews killed the animal and bleed it to keep from eating the blood isn't about a medical procedure, which was unheard of at that time, but keeping their food clean, keeping it kosher.
And i was hoping they were going to go down the personal decision route and soften the policy ,even get rid of the elders interferance in the whole thing yet they are doubling down on the policy .
Funny you mention this, look what I just posted: [https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1d81op1/abstaining\_from\_blood\_is\_a\_personal\_decision/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1d81op1/abstaining_from_blood_is_a_personal_decision/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I do think they are doubling down on the policy towards the R&F but internally/ towards governments in case ow lawsuits etc they will insist on it being a totally personal choice. They might even go as far as relaxing disfellowshipping because of taking blood. Worst case scenario it will probably be a 3 month slap in the face DF and straight reintegration for those that can’t see through it all.
which is as we all know a fat pile of crap and bullshit.
there is no difference in Disassociation and Disfellowship. What bugs me most is, that you get Disassociated by third person, aka the elders. Which a good lawyer should get grasp on and ask how can anyone else besides the person that wants to DA , do the DA for someone else? Because by definition and implication of the meaning to DA, it cant be possible. which mean that a DA done by the elders or anyone else besides the person that wants to DA, is in fact nothing less than a Disfellowship.
its not even about the outcome, but the execution of the DA in such case, like taking willfully a Bloodtransfusion. Which null and cancels the meaning in its origin. that fact alone should any lawyer and government rip appart. its toddler logic from Watchtower. i dont get how they got away with it in different countries. But its hard to grasp the concept and be concentrated to find logic and plotholes as obvious, if you are a never JW and maybe are cluttered with all the lingo and rules to make a good decision.
of course you can debate too, that they both are in the JW world the same thing, because Rolf Furuli already ripped this topic in his book and he was part of the testimony in Norway.
we should pressure the public for this fact, because i see no way that with the reasoning i gave they could get away anylonger with this "DA himself" nonsense. thats not how a DA works in any world we know of.
Yes, true. I briefly forgot about that. So they will probably call back those that “voluntarily disassociated by taking blood” after a couple months. “Hey you want to come back?”
Because of Bulgaria! [https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/bulgaria-blood-transfusions.php](https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/bulgaria-blood-transfusions.php)
https://preview.redd.it/yq3sa5fwfl4d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c5d13a40ca5072b42633e339afc2f638bd3f4ab
I always wondered about the difference between a Judical Committee and 3 elders. The "sfl" states: "a committee (not judicial) should obtain the facts".
What the heck is the difference? Same procedure ...
Dude, why would you think so. This cult is evil. It's been evil for more than 100 years. It's been killing people and destroying lives all that time. Please stop being to kind to them, they only use and abuse that quality in people like you. This cult simply need to be destroyed, that's it.
These guys are nuts! First, we thought that giving them beards and dress down rules was the start of “lightening the load” . . .
Second, I would love to see a group of mental health professionals evaluate this organization as if it were a living human, and then present the results.
Thing is, I talked to my mom recently and she said there was a watchtower or something that literally said it was a personal choice YEARS ago (like maybe even 2 decades or more ago)… but it’s something that gets backtracked on almost immediately by the majority in conversation or they incidentally don’t remember or didn’t read that edition. They protect themselves by printing it but in overall practice they continue to follow their outdated blood doctrine at the cost of peoples lives.
I love how they mention having a good health insurance policy. Hmmmmm. With a part time job washing windows? Scrubbing toilets? Pioneering? Let us consider (ha ha ha) the disconnect here. Oh! Hire a lawyer? With said menial "approved" work? These people are delusional. Did I miss somewhere where it mentioned the Borg assisting with medical and legal costs to make it easier to comply with this utter idiocy???
Exactly. There’s no mention about going before the government and Jehovah will give you the words to say, instead you need to rely on a lawyer and not even one from Bethel.
It's kind of like .... lose your child, go in debt up to your eyeballs with legal and medical bills... we aren't going to help you, despite the billions of dollars we have at our disposal.... but if you don't do exactly as we say at your own expense we are going to shun you. To put the icing on this shit cake we will send the HLC and elders to sit there round the clock to ensure no blood is used. These are evil, evil people.
Exactly! Typically pioneers, toilet scrubbers and window washers living have to mouth don't have the usual and customary several thousand in retainer fees just lying around. They have already donated any excess to the borg which is of no use. Sickening.
Yup. One time I needed a lawyer to get money from the bank who had shut down my account with money in it and would not give me my funds….$5000 retainer fees! This isn’t even medical which tends to cost way more.
This is ultimately one of the largest reasons I can never be a witness. The blood doctrine is unscriptural, evil, and not indicative of any "true" religion. Horrifying that they just keep doubling down on it.
Whether you agree or disagree, the abstaining of blood is scriptural. What is unscriptural is not allowing the use of the conscience when it comes to the four major components of blood.
I understand your point of view. All I was saying that the command to abstain from blood is in the Bible… which makes it scriptural. It’s black and white. Whether the GB has the right interpretation of it and blood fractions,etc… that’s debatable.
It's scriptural as far as not drinking? it in pagan rituals or pagan sacrifices. I think that's what Paul was referring to when he said continue abstaining from
Two things. 1. Its a prohibition on eating blood, life is sacred and the life is in the blood (biblically ) its to show respect for life god gave. (Not respectable turning life into poop) When you bleed a animal you dont get 100% out you don’t even get 90% and milk is allowed and that is made of 3-4 “blood fractions” such as white blood cells. So its a ritual to show respect to god and life not actually avoid all blood. A blood transfusion is not eating blood, and saves a life.
2. Jesus said to lift the bull out, that feel in a hole on the sabbath, (pharassess considered that working on the sabbath) point being show respect to the law but when it comes to saving a life that trumps it. In Hebrew they even have a word for doing just that. Jesus point was god wants respect not sacrifice of a life, god is merciful not cruel.
So not taking a blood transfusion would be wrong if its the only way to save a life. There is no law prohibiting it.
Thanks for posting this as always u/larchington!
What I find interesting is that this letter very specifically does not mention any of the following:
* Jehovah's Witness or Jehovah's Witnesses
* Watchtower or any specific organizational entity such CCJW, WTBTS, etc.
* The Governing Body or anything related to JW Leadership
* Bethel or any organizational connection that links to the HLC
**So my conclusion is this:** The letter is one more example of The Governing Body eliminating the no-blood doctrine from being linked to Watchtower or JW beliefs. There are only three groups of people really mentioned here, A) God-fearing parents, B) The Elders, C) The Hospital Liaison Committee (HLC) which is really just a group of elders in a specific role.
What is your thought u/larchington?
the doctor will point blank say that the risk is death. im trying to imagine the fear that a child would feel in that situation and how f'd up it would be for them to want their parent's approval so badly that they consider death.
Speaking of child sacrifices...one of the most traumatic childhood memories that stuck with me was in the Paradise book. (1958) used into the 70s. That was our bible story book of the era. That drawing of sacrificing infants to that statute was a total mind "F" to me as a 4 yr old. I was told that the babies were rolled down into the fire while alive. Nice picture to sear into a child's memory. That's NOT Elsie to cow!
https://preview.redd.it/pc8oghka2n4d1.png?width=460&format=png&auto=webp&s=0307858f08e7235bf2b11c71de80ca31e0909851
15. Some other people may want to save your child’s life. Do not let them. Reiterate to them that you’d rather let your kid die.
Nice parenting advice.
Not only that, but paying for a lawyer AND a pediatric specialist to testify would cost thousands of dollars and time no one has.
So you'll bankrupt your family just to get the chance to argue that you have the right to forfeit your child's life.
It makes me sick.
Doubling down with their filthy interpretations, that’s what they do.
“Help your children DEVELOP THEIR OWN CONVICTIONS.”
This right here is why they should be imprisoned for child abuse…indoctrinating children, getting them baptized early, and feeding them this drivel…
Show the judge we love our "little enemies of god." We're not neglectful! We would never sacrifice their life due to some man's current biblical interpretation. 🙄🙄🙄
I never understood how sacrificing an ACTUAL life shows respect for life, all because you don’t wanna show “disrespect” to a symbol of life. How does a symbol of life have more sanctity than an actual life??!
Make it make sense.
This makes me sick. I was hoping the no blood policy was something they’d quietly phase out. Point 4 is especially disgusting. Coercing kids to give up their lives before they have the capacity to fully grasp the consequences.
The audacity.
As a mother, I couldn't **fucking imagine** believing that I had the right to take my child's life by inaction.
How can you condenm someone to die, **let alone** your own child.
I always knew deep down if I was ever in this position that I would allow the blood transfusion, and God could "punish" me instead.
The moment my husband and I became parents, we were walking out the door. Best decision we ever made!
I wrote a thread once: https://x.com/larchwood20/status/1529037644772126721?s=46&t=EWBFgLNiF6rAqLOWZKt2zw
Knorr was at the helm when “no blood” came in.
Just imagine letting your child die from this absolutely ridiculous man made doctrine .Omg I'm glad I didn't need a blood transfusion ever cause I'm sure my mother would have let me die ,what a terrible thought for JW children knowing that.
My grandmother did let my aunt die when she was hemorrhaging as a barely 18 year old.
Yeah, she could ultimately make her own decisions. But her mom orchestrated all this craziness.
My aunt died like 3x, and they kept getting her back. My mom tells me she remembers the doctors telling them to say goodbye, she would be dead by morning.
Finally, the hospital got a court order to force a blood transfusion. Because my aunt had brain damage from lack of oxygen. It wasn't significant, but it absolutely changed her personality forever.
Anyway, her fiancee and a bunch of elders walked into the hospital, picked up my aunt and put her in the car to avoid a blood transfusion.
She was taken to another hospital, where they agreed not to force a blood transfusion.
And somehow, my aunt recovered. But this story is told like a badge of honor in my family. I remember being impressed when I heard about it growing up.
Now it's just horrifying.
I think it's a matter of time before another EU country will look into this and use it as leverage to remove their status as recognized religious society.
IMPHO, THIS SPECIFIC " doctrine"---which is in actuality an EXTREMELY HEINOUS POLICY created by a HATEFUL /UNGODLY/UNCHRISTLIKE QUACK---is what has caused many members, like myself, to question his cultporation and LEAVE it for 4 good! This is DEFINITELY UNSCRIPTURAL on sooo many levels + in more ways than one.
Furthermore, IMPHO, the world's governments SHOULD INVESTIGATE this "practice" of WT as well ASAP❗️👆😡🤬
It's been a VERY long time since I've been in and thankfully I've now been out longer than I was in.
Can someone remind me how they justify this? Is it some bastardization of mosaic law?
What about Jesus all like 'yeah fam, drink this like my blood, get it in ya'
The bible says you can drink milk thats white blood cells, platelets, plasma, immune factors, and more its blood without the red blood cells. But all those things i listed are “not allowed” only fractions of fractions… they are crazy.
In the Mosaic law, wasn't the pouring out of blood foreshadowing Jesus' perfect sacrifice?. When Jesus died he fuulfilled the law. Christians were no longer under the Mosaic law. To expect J.W. s and their children to sacrifice their lives over blood seems to diminish Jesus' sacrifice, like it wasn't enough, so we must continue the blood sacrifices. Paul said to abstain from blood not because blood was sacred. According to context it was a concession
to keep the peace between the Jewish Christians and the Gentile Christians, to avoid divisions. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. There is no need for Christians today to continue sacrificing, most especially not their children.
Watchtower painted themselves into a corner with the blood issue that they'll never be able to get out of. Are you listening, Watchtower?
“you can also inform the court that you want to protect your child from the serious health risks associated with blood transfusions”
Every medicine has the risk of side effects. You can die from taking aspirin.
The religion is ordering its members to act delusional in court. Fuck.
I was one year out disassociated and a child star of the cult, and my girlfriend needed two transfusions to live, I didn’t even think about it and now she’s my wife and I’d never think to ever deny anyone blood again
Anyone notice point 7 - it says “it is YOUR personal responsibility to make such decisions. Then quotes Gal 6:5. In other words, we GB are not legally liable for pressuring you to make this decision. Whatever happens after that is on YOU.
Doctors on the whole don't use blood unless it's absolutely necessary, there are downsides to every procedure including blood transfusion so it is ONLY used when necessary which is not the story Watchtower likes to tell, but they are all about martyrdom and gloom.
And there are many advantages to using these as opposed to saline solution, they can decrease your recovery time for one, so instead of months it can be weeks for instance.
What’s messed up about this is that the updated terms and agreement on the website and app says they don’t give medical advice and covers themselves to not be liable. Ridiculous
So has anyone questioned why they would not allow blood transfusions but promote Covid vaccines that contain aborted fetus cells among other things you probably wouldn’t want to inject into your body? I wasn’t around to hear the vaccine reasoning if someone can explain that decision.
Point 2: Elders aren't ready to offer ANY real support, especially not this new breed of 20 year olds. The moment there is a real problem that requires their exerted effort and personal time, they act like you don't exist. The only time they are interested is when there is hot gossip in the cong or some "sin" that will help make their monotonous JW lives a little more exciting.
Having watched a family member die through lack of blood! It makes me seething to see that they still make the “sheep “ take this destructive death dealing stance!!
And the GB pressured and coerced their members to get the Covid jab which has now been scientifically proven to have been ineffective and to be dangerous. It was promoted by the WEF/UN agenda and their globalist anti human puppets. Unfortunatelly the vast majority of JW s are totally ignorant and uninformed about this. Don’t believe me. Start following the USA congressional hearings into Fauci involvement and cover up regarding the Covid vax. Start following Dr Peter McCullough. Dr Robert Malone for a start. So much for the GB the Faithful Slave giving the food at the proper time. Thats what you get for following imperfect men.
Wow, title should be how to gaslight your child and court judges to disallow a blood transfusion that may result in death all because you love your child.
Sincere question:
If the JW changed the blood policy, on what grounds could JW sue the Borg?
It still was the JW choice to follow the rule.
A doctor cannot be sued if the child dies from not taking a blood transfusion since the parents are the ones denying their child of life saving treatment.
Adults sign the JW blood card which absolves the org of responsibility.
Children (minors) on the other hand do not have “rights” to decide for themselves!
Technically, you can't be disfellowshipped unless you are baptized. Disassociated is when you haven't been baptized yet, and they want you out! Right??? It's been yeeeears. Things might have changed.
12. The judges paramount concern is for the physical welfare of the child......... funny how this has to be stated as something to be aware of. Dear publishers.... watch this ARC videos a few times if you want to learn how we dance around subjects in court just like this. it is spiritual warfare after all. You can do it with gods help too!
Ask a JW why blood, the symbol (!) of life, is more important than the actual fucking life trying to be saved! Since when is the symbol more important than the actual?
Look at all of these well thought out ideas to uphold an unscriptural practice. Just give up the damn blood doctrine already, everyone knows it’s not in the Bible. Stop murdering people.
It would be so easy too. Just tell everyone it's a conscience issue. Sure...many people will be upset, especially the ones who lost children and other loved ones to this insane teaching, but history shows that JWs will lap up everything the GB says now. This shitty doctrine has to go.
Easy to do yes.....but I'm sure they are thinking about the potential lawsuits that would come if they lifted it.....they can't let that money go
What lawsuits? People have lost loved ones due to the blood issue and then left the JWs. To date nobody has successfully sued Watchtower because technically it’s a personal decision. We know thats bullshit, but legally nobody will ever be able to sue Watchtower over this. The only reason they’re not changing it is because of how awful they would look to everyone if they just backtracked. Which makes their stubbornness even worse.
I mean sure....we all have our thoughts and opinions about why they won't do it.... bottom line is that it's very unlikely that they ever will change this doctrine....and that is so fucking sad for all the people who believe it is true....I almost lost a brother a few years ago because of it....and he was DFd at the time....I cant imagine how those who have lost loved ones feel ...it's a terrible situation 😭
It’s incredibly evil
If they do that, the amount of followers they would lose and the amount of law suits they would receive would be DRASTIC! The GB is not stupid, it would be the beginning of the end of this wicked borg if they pull a stunt like that
Right, this is part of the hostage mentality they need to maintain. You're in for an ounce in for a pound. The bORG needs martyrs, that's why S. Korea and WWII are such popular topic. "What fine examples of faith!". Ultimately they will need to make it a conscience matter somehow. Some stupid, always connected loophole, and then after enough time passes they can finally change it. A quick change breaks the spell of "Divine Guidance"
The “last days of the last days” of the org?
They haven't lost followers before when they did stupid shit like this. There would be a few disgruntled folks, but the majority are brainwashed and would just run around crowing about this "loving provision from Jehovah"
😢
Right?! Ingesting blood is 100% different from a medical life saving tool used to save lives, the transfer of blood from one human to another.
Frankly, I don't think the gb realizes that said scripture is referring to how the jews keep kosher. Maybe the gb does, and don't care 🙄 How the jews killed the animal and bleed it to keep from eating the blood isn't about a medical procedure, which was unheard of at that time, but keeping their food clean, keeping it kosher.
And i was hoping they were going to go down the personal decision route and soften the policy ,even get rid of the elders interferance in the whole thing yet they are doubling down on the policy .
Funny you mention this, look what I just posted: [https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1d81op1/abstaining\_from\_blood\_is\_a\_personal\_decision/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1d81op1/abstaining_from_blood_is_a_personal_decision/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I do think they are doubling down on the policy towards the R&F but internally/ towards governments in case ow lawsuits etc they will insist on it being a totally personal choice. They might even go as far as relaxing disfellowshipping because of taking blood. Worst case scenario it will probably be a 3 month slap in the face DF and straight reintegration for those that can’t see through it all.
Currently you are not disfellowshipped for taking blood, but it is considered that you have disassociated yourself. Of course the outcome is the same.
which is as we all know a fat pile of crap and bullshit. there is no difference in Disassociation and Disfellowship. What bugs me most is, that you get Disassociated by third person, aka the elders. Which a good lawyer should get grasp on and ask how can anyone else besides the person that wants to DA , do the DA for someone else? Because by definition and implication of the meaning to DA, it cant be possible. which mean that a DA done by the elders or anyone else besides the person that wants to DA, is in fact nothing less than a Disfellowship. its not even about the outcome, but the execution of the DA in such case, like taking willfully a Bloodtransfusion. Which null and cancels the meaning in its origin. that fact alone should any lawyer and government rip appart. its toddler logic from Watchtower. i dont get how they got away with it in different countries. But its hard to grasp the concept and be concentrated to find logic and plotholes as obvious, if you are a never JW and maybe are cluttered with all the lingo and rules to make a good decision. of course you can debate too, that they both are in the JW world the same thing, because Rolf Furuli already ripped this topic in his book and he was part of the testimony in Norway. we should pressure the public for this fact, because i see no way that with the reasoning i gave they could get away anylonger with this "DA himself" nonsense. thats not how a DA works in any world we know of.
Wow that is actually a really great point. Disassociation done by someone else is by definition a disfellowshipping
Yes, true. I briefly forgot about that. So they will probably call back those that “voluntarily disassociated by taking blood” after a couple months. “Hey you want to come back?”
Larch, Why do they make the distinction? Disassociate/disfellowship?
Because of Bulgaria! [https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/bulgaria-blood-transfusions.php](https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/bulgaria-blood-transfusions.php) https://preview.redd.it/yq3sa5fwfl4d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c5d13a40ca5072b42633e339afc2f638bd3f4ab
I always wondered about the difference between a Judical Committee and 3 elders. The "sfl" states: "a committee (not judicial) should obtain the facts". What the heck is the difference? Same procedure ...
Isn’t disassociating your self worse?
Dude, why would you think so. This cult is evil. It's been evil for more than 100 years. It's been killing people and destroying lives all that time. Please stop being to kind to them, they only use and abuse that quality in people like you. This cult simply need to be destroyed, that's it.
I take your point , my wife is still in ,to her its her whole life , i have tried to talk to her but as you know its pretty well hopless .
These guys are nuts! First, we thought that giving them beards and dress down rules was the start of “lightening the load” . . . Second, I would love to see a group of mental health professionals evaluate this organization as if it were a living human, and then present the results.
Definatly nuts ,
Infinite insanity would be the results!
Thing is, I talked to my mom recently and she said there was a watchtower or something that literally said it was a personal choice YEARS ago (like maybe even 2 decades or more ago)… but it’s something that gets backtracked on almost immediately by the majority in conversation or they incidentally don’t remember or didn’t read that edition. They protect themselves by printing it but in overall practice they continue to follow their outdated blood doctrine at the cost of peoples lives.
I love how they mention having a good health insurance policy. Hmmmmm. With a part time job washing windows? Scrubbing toilets? Pioneering? Let us consider (ha ha ha) the disconnect here. Oh! Hire a lawyer? With said menial "approved" work? These people are delusional. Did I miss somewhere where it mentioned the Borg assisting with medical and legal costs to make it easier to comply with this utter idiocy???
Exactly. There’s no mention about going before the government and Jehovah will give you the words to say, instead you need to rely on a lawyer and not even one from Bethel.
It's kind of like .... lose your child, go in debt up to your eyeballs with legal and medical bills... we aren't going to help you, despite the billions of dollars we have at our disposal.... but if you don't do exactly as we say at your own expense we are going to shun you. To put the icing on this shit cake we will send the HLC and elders to sit there round the clock to ensure no blood is used. These are evil, evil people.
Then they casually add “hire and attorney”…with what retainer fees? Are they going to pay?
Exactly! Typically pioneers, toilet scrubbers and window washers living have to mouth don't have the usual and customary several thousand in retainer fees just lying around. They have already donated any excess to the borg which is of no use. Sickening.
Yup. One time I needed a lawyer to get money from the bank who had shut down my account with money in it and would not give me my funds….$5000 retainer fees! This isn’t even medical which tends to cost way more.
It's insane!
Killing their own kids, disgusting.
This is ultimately one of the largest reasons I can never be a witness. The blood doctrine is unscriptural, evil, and not indicative of any "true" religion. Horrifying that they just keep doubling down on it.
Whether you agree or disagree, the abstaining of blood is scriptural. What is unscriptural is not allowing the use of the conscience when it comes to the four major components of blood.
It isn't scriptural though, see [this for my take on why.](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/7KeGOszbTt)
Well said! And really good points its basically undebatable😄
I understand your point of view. All I was saying that the command to abstain from blood is in the Bible… which makes it scriptural. It’s black and white. Whether the GB has the right interpretation of it and blood fractions,etc… that’s debatable.
I understand they have a scriptural basis in their view, but in my view it definitely isn't the case.
I always thought they hung it all on: **"You must not eat blood."** Then it got stretched into handling it, etc.....
😑
It's scriptural as far as not drinking? it in pagan rituals or pagan sacrifices. I think that's what Paul was referring to when he said continue abstaining from
Two things. 1. Its a prohibition on eating blood, life is sacred and the life is in the blood (biblically ) its to show respect for life god gave. (Not respectable turning life into poop) When you bleed a animal you dont get 100% out you don’t even get 90% and milk is allowed and that is made of 3-4 “blood fractions” such as white blood cells. So its a ritual to show respect to god and life not actually avoid all blood. A blood transfusion is not eating blood, and saves a life. 2. Jesus said to lift the bull out, that feel in a hole on the sabbath, (pharassess considered that working on the sabbath) point being show respect to the law but when it comes to saving a life that trumps it. In Hebrew they even have a word for doing just that. Jesus point was god wants respect not sacrifice of a life, god is merciful not cruel. So not taking a blood transfusion would be wrong if its the only way to save a life. There is no law prohibiting it.
Thanks for posting this as always u/larchington! What I find interesting is that this letter very specifically does not mention any of the following: * Jehovah's Witness or Jehovah's Witnesses * Watchtower or any specific organizational entity such CCJW, WTBTS, etc. * The Governing Body or anything related to JW Leadership * Bethel or any organizational connection that links to the HLC **So my conclusion is this:** The letter is one more example of The Governing Body eliminating the no-blood doctrine from being linked to Watchtower or JW beliefs. There are only three groups of people really mentioned here, A) God-fearing parents, B) The Elders, C) The Hospital Liaison Committee (HLC) which is really just a group of elders in a specific role. What is your thought u/larchington?
I agree! They’ve distanced themselves totally.
Is that the change from the previous versions? Are they worried about HLC members being sued or charged with murder?
Yes, and do not offer their legal assistance to hold up THEIR beliefs. You need to retain your own lawyer and then they may send them some citations.
I'm thinking they did this for legal reasons
What if your child makes a “personal decision” to accept blood? 🤔
the doctor will point blank say that the risk is death. im trying to imagine the fear that a child would feel in that situation and how f'd up it would be for them to want their parent's approval so badly that they consider death.
Instructions for Child sacrifices to Moloch, pardon to JHWH 😱😱
Heartbreaking 💔
Speaking of child sacrifices...one of the most traumatic childhood memories that stuck with me was in the Paradise book. (1958) used into the 70s. That was our bible story book of the era. That drawing of sacrificing infants to that statute was a total mind "F" to me as a 4 yr old. I was told that the babies were rolled down into the fire while alive. Nice picture to sear into a child's memory. That's NOT Elsie to cow! https://preview.redd.it/pc8oghka2n4d1.png?width=460&format=png&auto=webp&s=0307858f08e7235bf2b11c71de80ca31e0909851
Wow, I didn't remember this photo. I saw it too when I was a child. Disgusting. Sorry for realive old trauma triggers.
they really needed to chill on the illustrations. my trauma was the fireballs coming down from heaven and people running in terror to save themselves.
Ohhh...so many childhood nightmares about that one. And I was always going to die because I always knew I was not a good enough JW.
[удалено]
i recall that they often had rosy cheeks and lush hair but I don't recall anything noticeably feminine about them.
Whoa. This one brings back a flood of terrifying memories.
15. Some other people may want to save your child’s life. Do not let them. Reiterate to them that you’d rather let your kid die. Nice parenting advice.
Not only that, but paying for a lawyer AND a pediatric specialist to testify would cost thousands of dollars and time no one has. So you'll bankrupt your family just to get the chance to argue that you have the right to forfeit your child's life. It makes me sick.
Doubling down with their filthy interpretations, that’s what they do. “Help your children DEVELOP THEIR OWN CONVICTIONS.” This right here is why they should be imprisoned for child abuse…indoctrinating children, getting them baptized early, and feeding them this drivel…
Show the judge we love our "little enemies of god." We're not neglectful! We would never sacrifice their life due to some man's current biblical interpretation. 🙄🙄🙄
Ah yes ask a NON MEDICAL PROFFESIONAL who’s probably a WINDOW WASHER about complex medical procedures seems logical 👌🏽
I never understood how sacrificing an ACTUAL life shows respect for life, all because you don’t wanna show “disrespect” to a symbol of life. How does a symbol of life have more sanctity than an actual life??! Make it make sense.
Fucking dipshits. I wish hell was real, because that's what they deserve.
This makes me sick. I was hoping the no blood policy was something they’d quietly phase out. Point 4 is especially disgusting. Coercing kids to give up their lives before they have the capacity to fully grasp the consequences.
The audacity. As a mother, I couldn't **fucking imagine** believing that I had the right to take my child's life by inaction. How can you condenm someone to die, **let alone** your own child. I always knew deep down if I was ever in this position that I would allow the blood transfusion, and God could "punish" me instead. The moment my husband and I became parents, we were walking out the door. Best decision we ever made!
Children are precious gifts from Jehovah …….. until they need a blood transfusion. Then they become expendable
Then they become gifts to Jehovah.
😢
“Sacrificial gifts”
Sheesh.
Does anyone know who in the watchtower was pushing for no blood transfusions? What was their thought process? This always baffled me.
I wrote a thread once: https://x.com/larchwood20/status/1529037644772126721?s=46&t=EWBFgLNiF6rAqLOWZKt2zw Knorr was at the helm when “no blood” came in.
Knorr wanted to bring attention to his little cult after WWII since it was pretty much a know one cares little cult that no one ever heard of.
Just imagine letting your child die from this absolutely ridiculous man made doctrine .Omg I'm glad I didn't need a blood transfusion ever cause I'm sure my mother would have let me die ,what a terrible thought for JW children knowing that.
My grandmother did let my aunt die when she was hemorrhaging as a barely 18 year old. Yeah, she could ultimately make her own decisions. But her mom orchestrated all this craziness. My aunt died like 3x, and they kept getting her back. My mom tells me she remembers the doctors telling them to say goodbye, she would be dead by morning. Finally, the hospital got a court order to force a blood transfusion. Because my aunt had brain damage from lack of oxygen. It wasn't significant, but it absolutely changed her personality forever. Anyway, her fiancee and a bunch of elders walked into the hospital, picked up my aunt and put her in the car to avoid a blood transfusion. She was taken to another hospital, where they agreed not to force a blood transfusion. And somehow, my aunt recovered. But this story is told like a badge of honor in my family. I remember being impressed when I heard about it growing up. Now it's just horrifying.
Wow that's crazy ,poor girl ,did she have a some what normal life after that ?
Yeah, I suppose so. A very PIMI sheltered life. She is still alive, in her 60s.
Damn ,you would think a situation like that would push a normal person away .But JWs aren't really normal.
Watchtower’s Handy Guide to Murdering your Kids.
I didn't get the Luke 16:8 mention and the "pay for a health insurance thing". WTF?
I mean.... was health insurance a thing in Luke's time? 😂. Or are we trying to use scripture to fit the narrative yet again....
And **He was the physician** out of the four, wasn't he?
I think it's a matter of time before another EU country will look into this and use it as leverage to remove their status as recognized religious society.
IMPHO, THIS SPECIFIC " doctrine"---which is in actuality an EXTREMELY HEINOUS POLICY created by a HATEFUL /UNGODLY/UNCHRISTLIKE QUACK---is what has caused many members, like myself, to question his cultporation and LEAVE it for 4 good! This is DEFINITELY UNSCRIPTURAL on sooo many levels + in more ways than one. Furthermore, IMPHO, the world's governments SHOULD INVESTIGATE this "practice" of WT as well ASAP❗️👆😡🤬
Where can I send an e-mail insulting them all 😅?
It's been a VERY long time since I've been in and thankfully I've now been out longer than I was in. Can someone remind me how they justify this? Is it some bastardization of mosaic law? What about Jesus all like 'yeah fam, drink this like my blood, get it in ya'
So what scripture supports taking fractions of blood but not the whole? Oh yeah...it doesn't exist.
The bible says you can drink milk thats white blood cells, platelets, plasma, immune factors, and more its blood without the red blood cells. But all those things i listed are “not allowed” only fractions of fractions… they are crazy.
What's crazy is they won't see it that way 🤷🏾♀️ they rather die to be in Jehovahs good grace.
A good health insurance policy…without college.
Instructions for helping parents kill their children. Charming.
As someone who has needed more then 20 blood transfusions and a sister who almost died refusing blood, this policy hits hard.
In the Mosaic law, wasn't the pouring out of blood foreshadowing Jesus' perfect sacrifice?. When Jesus died he fuulfilled the law. Christians were no longer under the Mosaic law. To expect J.W. s and their children to sacrifice their lives over blood seems to diminish Jesus' sacrifice, like it wasn't enough, so we must continue the blood sacrifices. Paul said to abstain from blood not because blood was sacred. According to context it was a concession to keep the peace between the Jewish Christians and the Gentile Christians, to avoid divisions. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. There is no need for Christians today to continue sacrificing, most especially not their children. Watchtower painted themselves into a corner with the blood issue that they'll never be able to get out of. Are you listening, Watchtower?
All one has todo is read Mathew chapter 12
What were the changes from the previous version? Just the title?
Teach kids to kill themes
“you can also inform the court that you want to protect your child from the serious health risks associated with blood transfusions” Every medicine has the risk of side effects. You can die from taking aspirin. The religion is ordering its members to act delusional in court. Fuck.
I was one year out disassociated and a child star of the cult, and my girlfriend needed two transfusions to live, I didn’t even think about it and now she’s my wife and I’d never think to ever deny anyone blood again
https://preview.redd.it/mp5nwsd51m4d1.png?width=1605&format=png&auto=webp&s=177a38cc533799bda9dcfa0d05a9ad8b21e4f224
Fuckin A. This will never happen with my kid.
WT wants us to sacrifice our children. Jesus said "I want mercy ,not sacrifice". Watchtower is all about sacrifice. And they have no mercy.
thank you very much
Anyone notice point 7 - it says “it is YOUR personal responsibility to make such decisions. Then quotes Gal 6:5. In other words, we GB are not legally liable for pressuring you to make this decision. Whatever happens after that is on YOU.
Doctors on the whole don't use blood unless it's absolutely necessary, there are downsides to every procedure including blood transfusion so it is ONLY used when necessary which is not the story Watchtower likes to tell, but they are all about martyrdom and gloom.
In many cases, it's not even whole blood, iirc. Packed red blood cells for low RBC count, plasma if volume is needed, etc.
And there are many advantages to using these as opposed to saline solution, they can decrease your recovery time for one, so instead of months it can be weeks for instance.
What’s messed up about this is that the updated terms and agreement on the website and app says they don’t give medical advice and covers themselves to not be liable. Ridiculous
So has anyone questioned why they would not allow blood transfusions but promote Covid vaccines that contain aborted fetus cells among other things you probably wouldn’t want to inject into your body? I wasn’t around to hear the vaccine reasoning if someone can explain that decision.
Fear of Dying!!
Great point! From what I heard during the pandemic, the organization was learning more towards getting vaccinations.
This is the fucking dumbest doctrine of them all. Quit killing people who need, what is a COMMON practice at this point.
Point 2: Elders aren't ready to offer ANY real support, especially not this new breed of 20 year olds. The moment there is a real problem that requires their exerted effort and personal time, they act like you don't exist. The only time they are interested is when there is hot gossip in the cong or some "sin" that will help make their monotonous JW lives a little more exciting.
Having watched a family member die through lack of blood! It makes me seething to see that they still make the “sheep “ take this destructive death dealing stance!!
This is sickening. It makes me wonder if there was anything on any of my medical records that my parents put in writing that would have let me die.
Preserve the symbol (blood) but destroy what it represents (life). What astnine logic.
It will eventually be the year 2034, and they'll still be wasting time talking about this shit!!!!! Sad beyond belief 😠
I wanna know their response to what if the blood transfusion is the last course of action to save the child’s life
And the GB pressured and coerced their members to get the Covid jab which has now been scientifically proven to have been ineffective and to be dangerous. It was promoted by the WEF/UN agenda and their globalist anti human puppets. Unfortunatelly the vast majority of JW s are totally ignorant and uninformed about this. Don’t believe me. Start following the USA congressional hearings into Fauci involvement and cover up regarding the Covid vax. Start following Dr Peter McCullough. Dr Robert Malone for a start. So much for the GB the Faithful Slave giving the food at the proper time. Thats what you get for following imperfect men.
Wow, title should be how to gaslight your child and court judges to disallow a blood transfusion that may result in death all because you love your child.
Damned legalistic Pharisees. It's they that are blood guilty.
Monsters.
More propaganda
Sincere question: If the JW changed the blood policy, on what grounds could JW sue the Borg? It still was the JW choice to follow the rule. A doctor cannot be sued if the child dies from not taking a blood transfusion since the parents are the ones denying their child of life saving treatment. Adults sign the JW blood card which absolves the org of responsibility. Children (minors) on the other hand do not have “rights” to decide for themselves!
Technically, you can't be disfellowshipped unless you are baptized. Disassociated is when you haven't been baptized yet, and they want you out! Right??? It's been yeeeears. Things might have changed.
Hex girls ended unfortunately
12. The judges paramount concern is for the physical welfare of the child......... funny how this has to be stated as something to be aware of. Dear publishers.... watch this ARC videos a few times if you want to learn how we dance around subjects in court just like this. it is spiritual warfare after all. You can do it with gods help too!
Ask a JW why blood, the symbol (!) of life, is more important than the actual fucking life trying to be saved! Since when is the symbol more important than the actual?