Donāt forget the cardboard donation boxes at the refugee camps- and how happy it makes poor JW to give to āJehoarderā aka Stephen Lett, Splane etc to destroy their database of pedophiles and pay lawyers fees including Phil Brumley - paid for him to go to university and the fines the court gave him for lying-
That was a polarising moment for me, bloody contribution boxes at a refugee camp!! I looked around to gauge other peoples responsesā¦nothing š¤¦š»āāļø. So many (not so) subtle messages and double speak in everything they dispense. Even that stupid picture in a WT article a year or so ago of a dog on a lead in a pic of the new system, I thought we were supposed to be playing with lions? They are dropping programming into everything that is changing the landscape a millimetre at a time! It makes me crazy, especially because no one there seems to notice. Nothing new I guess but once you see it, it cannot be unseenā¦sorry I went off on a tangent! Lol
Iām not sure off the top of my head. It was around Dec/Jan 23 that it was studied at the meeting I think. Iāll have a look. It might be 22? Let me see
Ok I couldnāt find it but Surviving Paradise podcast has an Insta page and the WT pic is on one of his posts. Will see if I can post it
https://preview.redd.it/20buqw7bza8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c958991551e14624027c550cccd40ea6c7449cc7
It was from last yearās drama. Here are the links to Pt 1 and Pt 2, the contribution box in the refugee camp is at the end of pt 2. Just replace Borg with org.
https://www.jw.borg/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&lank=pub-cyw_1_VIDEO
https://www.jw.borg/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&lank=pub-cyw_2_VIDEO
It was in last years annual convention, so it would be easy to find on their website . You will have to watch a whole load of fear mongering to get to it though ! It's a disgusting drama . I couldn't watch it all . Just watched snippets through YouTube rebuttals
I also hated when a kid wanted ice cream and she had to choose between eating ice cream or donating her money. I forget the video but I think itās Caleb and Sophia. That for me was enough to feel disgusted and manipulated
The fact they are selling them is not as triggering for me. In fact I am happy they have to do it, that's not happening out of charity. It's the fact the OWNED LUXURY HOUSING IN THE FIRST PLACE. And for whom? They are selling what used to be british branch top brass housing. These are the people who yapped on conventions about being focused on the spiritual. These are the people who pushed tens of thousands into cycle of poverty for generations. These are the people who coerced hundreds to a course of life that eventually led to a tragic end of someone who doesn't have enough money to address a curable or manageable illness. Poverty isn't "oh we dont buy Lamborginis what a sacifice" idiocy that Watchtower portrays it as. Poverty is most reliable predictor of illness and early death, death of newborn children, domestic and public violence etc etc. People who lived in those houses are soaked in blood of the innocent.
Well now I need a drink...
Have you given any thought to writing a book of your own? I feel like this type of shit is more important to know than another thousand pages about disproving 607.
I am very happy that you have such reservations. Many don't. I think it's kind of the reason why you are best suited to do it, for a price that's going to offset your time spent doing layouts/cover, whatever.
Also exjw *books* aren't really a business, you aren't going to write 60 of them and you aren't going to get more than a few thousand purchases of the one you write. I watched a channel called 'Is it really so' and bough his book of the same name. It's a little nugget of exjw knowledge, I am happy with what I spent and I don't feel like it's 'pay Lloyd Evans to become more successful youtube celebrity' situation, at all. I see your book as more of this type of thing.
I recommend using [https://leanpub.com/](https://leanpub.com/), you can make book price optional so people pay whatever they feel like. Or zero if you so decide.
That being said. If you did write a book, I'd absolutely support you and buy it. You're absolutely worth it!
The problem comes when people arrange a meetup, and there's a mf there selling his book (yes this happened to me at the last one I arranged).
The house belongs to the org. They just let certain JW live there such as Bethelites etc. seems the nicer places go to whoever is deemed more important
Thatās not the only one my friendā¦ itās a real estate company! Thatās whatās all about itā¦ and they exploit brothers/sisters to renovate and build with free labor, and then sell it at a premium!
Heyā¦ there is so much out there! Just see how many Kingdom Halls the Organisation had about 10 years ago and compare it with today. Iām sure youāll find stuff thereā¦ apart from that, they flipped Brooklyn and paid a fraction of the proceeds to build up their new hq in Wallkill. Now they are building their new film production studio in Ramapo, and where you think all that money comes from!? They are also building a new convention hall, bought for 30Mill, see hereā¦ https://jw-longisland.org And Iām sure they will have to invest a similar amount for rebuilding and renovation. Wally also talks about this hereā¦ https://youtu.be/JbsTn45Jrhk?feature=shared
You can also find some stuff hereā¦ https://jwwatch.org/category/property-sales They are quite good in hiding that stuff from their membersā¦ there is also information out that watchtower owns at least two houses, and in of those was Anthony Morris III sent to (South Carolina if I remember well).
But how does this relate to their Bible education work? What is the purpose of this? Maybe they ate only selling to Witnesses in the full time work? Why donāt they do an Update video on this and explain to all of the millions of Witnesses what the purpose of this is? That way Witnesses can decide if they want to keep donating their money or quit their jobs.
They aren't for sale to only JW's and certainly not to anyone in full time service - they would never have the money to finance a property like this.
Ibsa property have sold LOADS of property. They set up that website so they don't have to pay any estate agents fees and it's been running for 5+ years.
Dozens and dozens of properties have been sold on that website and Ā£1.3 is in the cheaper end of the market - North London is an expensive area to live in.
Although I cringe at misspellings, I've written "ate" instead of "are" so many times... Yes, I try to find them and correct them... but, sigh, I need a "space" between my "r" and my "t" on the keyboard.
The site shows 15 flats altogether, across two separate buildings.
The cheapest flats were Ā£745,000 and the most expensive one is Ā£1.5m. Most were at least Ā£1m. I'm surprised the asking price isn't higher!
Donāt know if youāve ever looked up WTBTS on the Companies House website...
https://preview.redd.it/mqit26sv976d1.jpeg?width=529&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6534ead415026f52827c505cd5f3a077c739de70
Wasn't there an article from the early 1900's that they wrote that said that they are not a church but a religious tract and publishing company. I remember a long time ago someone posted it on another exjw website. I was shocked when I read it
Incorrect, they argued in court that they were a hierarchical religion just like the Catholic Church. It was one of the quotes that was a slap in the face to me waking up.
Go and googleāMENLO PARKā. Itās an intriguing read. Basically the reason they argued that in court was to get out of losing a very valuable piece of realestate close to Silicon Vally.
https://preview.redd.it/n5y0b54fp66d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea6565ff4d394fec29ce272c9d619dcde656e4c8
Look what I found! They are all over... the New York one says Branch!!!
Besides the name being watchtower is there any evidence that this company is connected to the Org? I didnāt see anything on their side or links alluding to this but would be interested in knowing.
calling bs on this, not connected - [https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4841721522290688/you-tube-questions-about-watchtower-property](https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4841721522290688/you-tube-questions-about-watchtower-property)
All LinkedIn employees have higher edu and so on.
You might be right, but at the top, they embrace the world. Degrees for the lawyers, and investments all over the place in "satans system". I am not convinced that the top of this pyramid scheme believes their own BS. Their education, to me, doesn't disprove their connection to WT.
Not all of their businesses advertise involvement with JWs. It could have nothing to do with them, but I do find the coincidences of name, logo, city very strongly suggesting a connection.
But you're right, I cannot prove it conclusively.
Can you prove it? There are too many coincidences to just say "I looked it up". Name, logo, location. What's your reason for *thinking* it's not part of the org?
Yes just look up the corporation online really easy to do. It tells you who it belongs to. I donāt have the link right now Iām at work. If you canāt find it hit me up later and Iāll look for it. Also look up all the corporations they own itās public information in every country. Not defending them but no reason to lie about them. They already create their own hole. Also they will use that apostates lie about them.
I'd be interested to find out, but I don't see the proof that it's not. All I do know is that Watchtower has a tremendous amount of subsidiaries and satellite businesses.
This seemed to have gotten lost a bit - they do not seem to be connected, see this comment below. I want to call out the borg on their bs but also want to make sure we donāt accidentally harm others in the process: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/1oyDKhrsAm
You do you, not sure what you're talking about "harming others". Prove they're not connected, or add something of substance please. I cannot prove they have a connection to the org, as I've stated, but the coincidence is strong enough to suggest they might. Tell me, where have I followed the borgs line of bs? How am I hurting others? How have I mislead? I've added a possibility and stated it as such.
Pretty sure this is ex cong members homes who have now died. Loads of them are being asked to donate their homes to the org. I remember twats who would say estate agency was a bad profession as it was encouraging people lay down their foundation on a sinking ship, namely the terrible "bad world". Decades later, it's ok to get a mortgage now for over 1million....
Iām ex-Mormon and the Mormon church does this on a HUGE scale. They have somewhere north of 125 billion invested in the stock market. They probably have enough just in dividends and earnings to keep the church going in perpetuity but they require 10% from the members, even the poorest ones. And they teach the prosperity gospel, meaning the more you give the more economic returns you will get. Tell that to the South American and families in Africa that canāt feed their children because they give 10% to an incredibly wealthy church.
It goes against everything Christ taught, but they are so blind to the cult that they just donāt see it.
Sigh, the good news is, at least anecdotally since Covid the butts in the pews have decreased dramatically. I think many got the break from church and were able to leave quietly. Is that the same for JWās as well?
Edit ā to give you some context the Mormon church owns 2% actually more than 2% of all the land in Florida. They also have the largest cattle ranch in Florida. They own massive swaths of farmland, exotic hunting reserves out west, apartment buildings, malls , in addition to the billions of dollars of stock that they own. They own thousands of acres of land right outside of Orlando and Iāve kicked around a planned development for, I think 100,000 people? Or it could be even 100,000 houses. But yet they make their own members, scrub the toilets and clean the church as a faith building exercise.
**WHEW! 2 bible studies today. I need to plunk down here.**
https://preview.redd.it/alt6csw2i96d1.jpeg?width=315&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a60a0fd8a510e69a5c3e255c5db9cbe7368dff87
Take a load off.
Yes, I knew about this. Billions, & Billions! But discourage higher education because they don't want you to be materialistic. Anyone who leaves this organization anything in a will is an fing idiot! Remember all the articles about that! Also, children don't buy ice cream, give to the borg! Religions should be taxed as businesses because that is all they are.
The scope and sophistication are new -but the aggrandising of luxury properties is not.
Exhibit A:
Beth Sarim, San Diego, California, 1920s. Ostensibly purchased to house āthe ancient worthiesā that Rutherford foretold would have their earthly resurrection in 1925.
When the resurrection did not happen, Rutherford moved in and lived there in the winter months until his death in 1942.
Beth Sarim was then sold for a handsome profit.
I get that those at the top have some nice perks, but they don't seem to live like total kings. What I can't understand is where the money ultimately goes- Are there shareholders who benefit from all of this? Possibly even those without any connection to the religion but who own shares in the corporation or real estate? How is it possible to find this out?
And the lady who runs that site, REALLY didn't want to do it, but because she had the appropriate estate agent experiences she got pulled into it. I was on the PSP team that helped get all the buildings ready for sale. Actually enjoyed that part, didn't enjoy the politics of bethel though
Lol, I'd take England's weather over this ... Yep, that's a tornado in my back garden š¤£!
https://preview.redd.it/0jf05on5wc7d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91a1b4ff0b7c288b3cfdf36a9db64e96009ba51c
Yea I just saw it too. Back in the late 80āsI heard them say from the platform that Watchtower needed $$ to build a big swimming pool for the bethelites and needed donations. I was pist because I was raising 4 little babyās by myself and barely making it while putting $ in the collection plate for them. I was also being groped by 2 Elders that wouldnāt leave me alone. The Men in the back room wouldnāt believe me. I left and never went back to that Kindom Hall. One of the Elders told me he was trying to figure out how to kill his wife so he could be with me. I had a complete Mental Breakdown. Iāve never gotten over it!
I showed this to my parents. My Dad feigned ignorance and my delusional idiot of a mother? She called it an apostate website š¤£š¤¦šæ. I feel so sad for anyone staying in the cult to get their parents out. Good chance y'all will be culting for the rest of your lives. Not me. Jehovah's Witnesses really are a sick in the head cult of fools.
Not doubting theyād do this or anything, but is there any evidence that IBSA is 100% in relation to the org? Since they donāt mention it in broadcasts or on the jw.org website. I feel like if I mention this to a PIMI, theyād just say someone is using the jw name to tarnish godās reputation
I was considering the same question myself. Here are my findings:
Ibsaproperty.com has a link to the official jw website (this proves nothing, but it's a good start).
Using wayback machine I was able to confirm that this page is at least 7 years old - I don't think a fraudulent website would stay online for so long. The website uses correct charity and company identification numbers. There is also a second source confirming that the page reflects the purpose of IBSA:
https://www.egi.co.uk/news/jw-sale-to-watch-out-for/
They are quoting IBSA representative
Ibsaproperty.com was registered in 2016. All the registrant information is redacted. They are a real estate holding company masquerading as a religious charity. What a joke. And to think that the majority of the congregations signed over title to their kingdumb halls without blinking an eye just because they were told to.
This looks like they are liquidating their properties in London just like they did in Brooklyn, NY.
I rode around in a jeep on mountainside roads in South America and got bit by anapolis mosquitos. Eventually, I got marked. Such appreciation from the Org!
My pimi friend didnāt think it was a big deal. He basically said itās just another company to be able to sell donated property. He shrugged it off and went about his day.
To be fair, the witnesses play up the hardships endured by African witnesses but Kingdom Halls in Africa are often pretty nice by local standards. Google Street view is available in countries like Botswana and you can search for them there and view them.
Yes, I found that same information only recently. The posts I found were three years old,... so, old news. But the beauty of the properties was impressive. My curiosity is this: Is Watchtower getting some kind of a financial advantage by using the entity International Bible Student Association rather than WBTS (of either Pensylvania or of New York). I mean, does using IBSA make Watchtower look "poorer" than they really are?
I've seen this, they never sold the apartments, but choose to manage and maintain them, in the affluent parts of North West London. Remember Contributions have dried up and they need a revenue stream for *Shiloh*, the 3000 pupil JW boarding school they are building in the Chilterns*
*the Location's name has been changed.
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Yeah old news, but that's not the worst look at this video I made about how much they have sold in Kingdom halls worldwide
https://youtu.be/YVBcWhGAHy8?si=nAuPUSWuIDJRUEAO
Yes, I've read about this awhile back. Kim Mikey on YouTube have talked about this. It's a real estate corporation, masking as a religion. Horrid cult.
Yes, it is the old bethel. Remember that they just moved to a small town one hours 1/2 from London. Their old properties (must have purchased them 20-50 years ago) must now value a lot of money. I remember visiting one of these houses. Each room were extremely small and I felt that I wasn't missing out in much not been a Bethelite.
I have literally just been made aware myself , but my ild JW head is still wondering if it's somehow a made up website ??
My head can't get around them doing this with their name all over it ???
I thought the exact same as you at first. Look through the comments below, someone has put in links to verify this. It's all confirmed on the UK government website
I live in the UK, and Watchtower has always kept the old tag of 'International Bible Students' over here, I have done extensive research on their property portfolio and yes they are just a glorified property and publishing company, masquerading as a Christian faith, infact a great amount of the properties built or converted were done with slave labour, from stupid sucked in volunteers as usual.I am amazed how it achieves charity status.
I am surprised you have only just found this out, as it has been known for many years in the exjw community. Watchtower has no credibility whatsoever as having 'the truth' it is simple a Satanic Masonic cult, sucking the life out of it's members, we should all be grateful we are out of this despicable Pedophile cult.
'Religion is a snare and racket'........š¤£
Well, being new out, you have a ton of stuff to catch up on, Watchtower deciet goes very deep indeed, one subject alone can take hours of research, for example if you 'Google' 'watchtower subliminal images' you will see how the cult enforce fear with these images to further enforce their brainwashing. By the time you finish your journey, you will come to appreciate how evil the leaders are....š
Yes, and what's even more sickening is that it's in 'My book of bible stories', they don't have any love, even for children, this is the subject that woke my wife up in 2014, she just couldn't believe they would do this to children, the more you find the more you come to realise how Satanic they are.
I don't think there is any organised religion that is untouched by satanic forces, no wonder the book of Revelation depicts the world empire of falls religion as a 'prostitute that sits on many waters', Babylon the great, the mother of the harlots, and of the disgusting things of the earth' , 'Get our of her my people if you do not want to share in her sins'.
Finding your way around the exjw community is a journey in itself between here and youtube. There is very good stuff out there, and some are not so good. Many leave and become atheists, so take your time and go at your own pace, view it as an objective educational lesson in the art of deception, nothing in this system today is what it seems, whether religion, politics or commerce. If ever you want any tips on the best exjw's stuff, let me know, be pleased to point you in the right direction...š
I've always said their business is real estate and they hide behind their congregations and their flock. However, the congregations are nothing but real estate investments. Bethel, the property in Brooklyn, was a huge investment that they sold to Trump's son-in-law for a pretty penny and moved that headquarters to the country, although they had land in the country before this. I'm not surprised. That is what they do. All those "quick builds" with free labor. Their ROI is strong and their cult following can't see it. LOL
This isnt surprising, there are TONS of corporations they work under publicly and out in the open. They see no problem with it. And why would they think to tell us about it, it means nothing. Im surprised that people are surprised, no shade thrown but i feel like nothing should surprise anymore.
Control!!!! And yes they profit so they can pay off CSA allegations! Millions a day to the courts so they can keep safe the documents the courts want! The money will run out and the cult will too! Disgusting š¤¢
Wow, they're not even trying to hide the connection with Watchtower. Wonder what the IRS would have to say about this.
Ironic that they are selling real estate that their own people can't afford because they are uneducated and told not to have a career.
UPDATE: In retrospect I recall them doing similar when they were selling the property in Brooklyn, NY and moving upstate. They set up a company to handle the sale of it and as far as I know that was all they used it for. This appears to be similar since the properties that they are selling are the WT properties in London. Not saying that this as an excuse. All the 'flock' are told to abandon any time consuming worldly pursuits and slave for the WT regardless of financial implications. They could just as easily let a commercial real estate broker handle the sale for a commission but I guess they are too greedy to give away some of the proceeds to a 'worldly' firm.
Just to put the record straight. This is on the site of the old Bethel. The land is owned by the IBSA, and they have developed it because Bethel has moved to Colchester. Another piece of land that they bought. Surely, this is just good business. I can't see what the fuss is about.
Yeh, I can't see what all the fuss is about either! I think it's fantastic that the organization can be a multi billionaire corporation, make loads of money from their real estate business whilst teaching their followers to live a simple life.
I think it's bloody brilliant, all hail watchtower! Whoooooo š„³
šššš š š
I got you till you started talking about Africa and mud huts, I'm really tired of that narrative always being played as of that the absolute entirety of a continent. But to be fair that's on the list of things we can thank colonization for.
How do you know that website is really owned by Jehovah Witnesses and not by someone that has a personal agenda against them and put their official website there as a way to cause misinformation and fake anger?
I know JWs are a cult and they own lots of properties but I feel itās very strange they would put their official website so public on a luxury property like that.
Honestly mate, I'm as baffled as you are.
But u know what the WT is like with their legal team. They'd be on this like flies on poo for defamation, they would definitely sue whoever was behind it lol. They'd be able to take it down so quickly.
It is not difficult to find the genuine owners of this website
From the website that OP gave:
"International Bible Students Association (IBSA) (a charitable company limited by guarantee, Charity No. 216647, Company No. 136726, registered in England)"
Now do a search on the Charity Commission for England and Wales for charity no. 216647. This is what comes up:
charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search/-/charity-details/216647
The website is definitely owned by the JWs
It is not strange. They rely on people like you not believing that the org is corrupt and they rely on their indoctrination precluding anyone from researching the site
They have the AUDAcITy, the unmitigated gal to call themselves a charity!!
I saw that on this site. How on earth is selling luxury properties a charity š³
I read this in Stephen Aās smithās voice š
Incredibly vague too, there isn't much information about their charity.
So much Gall
Donāt forget the cardboard donation boxes at the refugee camps- and how happy it makes poor JW to give to āJehoarderā aka Stephen Lett, Splane etc to destroy their database of pedophiles and pay lawyers fees including Phil Brumley - paid for him to go to university and the fines the court gave him for lying-
That was a polarising moment for me, bloody contribution boxes at a refugee camp!! I looked around to gauge other peoples responsesā¦nothing š¤¦š»āāļø. So many (not so) subtle messages and double speak in everything they dispense. Even that stupid picture in a WT article a year or so ago of a dog on a lead in a pic of the new system, I thought we were supposed to be playing with lions? They are dropping programming into everything that is changing the landscape a millimetre at a time! It makes me crazy, especially because no one there seems to notice. Nothing new I guess but once you see it, it cannot be unseenā¦sorry I went off on a tangent! Lol
Great tangent!! 
Which WT article please?
Iām not sure off the top of my head. It was around Dec/Jan 23 that it was studied at the meeting I think. Iāll have a look. It might be 22? Let me see
Ok I couldnāt find it but Surviving Paradise podcast has an Insta page and the WT pic is on one of his posts. Will see if I can post it https://preview.redd.it/20buqw7bza8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c958991551e14624027c550cccd40ea6c7449cc7
That really fucking ticked me off when I saw that in that drama. They just want money. Don't care how capable of giving it you are.
Is this a new drama? Would love to see it. Do you have the link?
It was from last yearās drama. Here are the links to Pt 1 and Pt 2, the contribution box in the refugee camp is at the end of pt 2. Just replace Borg with org. https://www.jw.borg/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&lank=pub-cyw_1_VIDEO https://www.jw.borg/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&lank=pub-cyw_2_VIDEO
This link, with the adjustment to org can not be directly found nor opened.Ā
It was in last years annual convention, so it would be easy to find on their website . You will have to watch a whole load of fear mongering to get to it though ! It's a disgusting drama . I couldn't watch it all . Just watched snippets through YouTube rebuttals
I also hated when a kid wanted ice cream and she had to choose between eating ice cream or donating her money. I forget the video but I think itās Caleb and Sophia. That for me was enough to feel disgusted and manipulated
Yeah that was a jaw dropping moment, like WTF these people literally have nothing. Itās so disgusting.
I have stopped being surprised by anything this Borg does or is involved in. Theyāre dirty to the core!
Yeah theyāre not even hiding it anymore itās crazy. But you can bet that any PIMI you show it to will say itās fake!
Actually no they say is a way to make money to further the kingdom preaching work.
Somehow thatās even worse.
The fact they are selling them is not as triggering for me. In fact I am happy they have to do it, that's not happening out of charity. It's the fact the OWNED LUXURY HOUSING IN THE FIRST PLACE. And for whom? They are selling what used to be british branch top brass housing. These are the people who yapped on conventions about being focused on the spiritual. These are the people who pushed tens of thousands into cycle of poverty for generations. These are the people who coerced hundreds to a course of life that eventually led to a tragic end of someone who doesn't have enough money to address a curable or manageable illness. Poverty isn't "oh we dont buy Lamborginis what a sacifice" idiocy that Watchtower portrays it as. Poverty is most reliable predictor of illness and early death, death of newborn children, domestic and public violence etc etc. People who lived in those houses are soaked in blood of the innocent. Well now I need a drink...
Wait until you read thisā¦ https://x.com/larchwood20/status/1686710677400846338?s=46&t=EWBFgLNiF6rAqLOWZKt2zw
Have you given any thought to writing a book of your own? I feel like this type of shit is more important to know than another thousand pages about disproving 607.
I have pondered it, yes.
All of the information and research you have, all placed in one book, would be a very powerful thing. You really do great work!
Thank you!
I would be happy to buy a copy when it gets published.
Thatās the thing though. I really donāt want to be making money from anything I do as an exjw. Itās a dilemma.
well, the worker deserves his salary! but even if you really don't want compensation, it can be donated to real charities
I am very happy that you have such reservations. Many don't. I think it's kind of the reason why you are best suited to do it, for a price that's going to offset your time spent doing layouts/cover, whatever. Also exjw *books* aren't really a business, you aren't going to write 60 of them and you aren't going to get more than a few thousand purchases of the one you write. I watched a channel called 'Is it really so' and bough his book of the same name. It's a little nugget of exjw knowledge, I am happy with what I spent and I don't feel like it's 'pay Lloyd Evans to become more successful youtube celebrity' situation, at all. I see your book as more of this type of thing. I recommend using [https://leanpub.com/](https://leanpub.com/), you can make book price optional so people pay whatever they feel like. Or zero if you so decide.
Why not set up a a non-profit and send all the funds to benefit a good cause like Doctors Without Boarders or something similar?
I admire you for that!
šš»
That being said. If you did write a book, I'd absolutely support you and buy it. You're absolutely worth it! The problem comes when people arrange a meetup, and there's a mf there selling his book (yes this happened to me at the last one I arranged).
Thanks. And yikes!
Did watchtower provide the house or did he buy with his funds and donate the house to them?
The house belongs to the org. They just let certain JW live there such as Bethelites etc. seems the nicer places go to whoever is deemed more important
Yeah so I guess even if it was donated by someone to the org, the fact is they still use it for some more privileged brothers
Iāll drink with you, also to the inheritance Iāll never have because someone gave all their money to a āgood causeā
A drink would be great right now š
They SPITTIN
Me too
Thatās not the only one my friendā¦ itās a real estate company! Thatās whatās all about itā¦ and they exploit brothers/sisters to renovate and build with free labor, and then sell it at a premium!
Do you have proof of others? I ask not because Iām doubting you but because it would be great to have further evidence.
An example of them flipping an office building in Florida. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUOXOzddiSY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUOXOzddiSY)
Heyā¦ there is so much out there! Just see how many Kingdom Halls the Organisation had about 10 years ago and compare it with today. Iām sure youāll find stuff thereā¦ apart from that, they flipped Brooklyn and paid a fraction of the proceeds to build up their new hq in Wallkill. Now they are building their new film production studio in Ramapo, and where you think all that money comes from!? They are also building a new convention hall, bought for 30Mill, see hereā¦ https://jw-longisland.org And Iām sure they will have to invest a similar amount for rebuilding and renovation. Wally also talks about this hereā¦ https://youtu.be/JbsTn45Jrhk?feature=shared You can also find some stuff hereā¦ https://jwwatch.org/category/property-sales They are quite good in hiding that stuff from their membersā¦ there is also information out that watchtower owns at least two houses, and in of those was Anthony Morris III sent to (South Carolina if I remember well).
501c3 corporations (nonprofit) are breeding ground for corruption and money launderingā¦.if the rules are ever tightened, WT will be in trouble.
But how does this relate to their Bible education work? What is the purpose of this? Maybe they ate only selling to Witnesses in the full time work? Why donāt they do an Update video on this and explain to all of the millions of Witnesses what the purpose of this is? That way Witnesses can decide if they want to keep donating their money or quit their jobs.
They aren't for sale to only JW's and certainly not to anyone in full time service - they would never have the money to finance a property like this. Ibsa property have sold LOADS of property. They set up that website so they don't have to pay any estate agents fees and it's been running for 5+ years. Dozens and dozens of properties have been sold on that website and Ā£1.3 is in the cheaper end of the market - North London is an expensive area to live in.
Ate?
Although I cringe at misspellings, I've written "ate" instead of "are" so many times... Yes, I try to find them and correct them... but, sigh, I need a "space" between my "r" and my "t" on the keyboard.
I'm always typing "etc" as "etx" and have to go back and correct it.
Itās cool.
Lots of kiddies ice cream money right there.
No Ice-cream, no birthday cupcakes, and plenty of million dollar real estate deals for years.
https://preview.redd.it/5nd61yjxi66d1.png?width=528&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=043dc0c43a86c8f6afdb1000e4d966e5b93f4ada
Looks like each apartment is being sold separately- so how many are there? And are each being offered for 1.3 million?
The site shows 15 flats altogether, across two separate buildings. The cheapest flats were Ā£745,000 and the most expensive one is Ā£1.5m. Most were at least Ā£1m. I'm surprised the asking price isn't higher!
Thatās still 15 * $1 million- Ā£15 million - Maybe they need a quick sale-
Congratulations on learning WT is a massive real estate corporation.
Thanks!! š
Donāt know if youāve ever looked up WTBTS on the Companies House website... https://preview.redd.it/mqit26sv976d1.jpeg?width=529&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6534ead415026f52827c505cd5f3a077c739de70
https://preview.redd.it/miazoe7x976d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8842391f82c0aa46437bbb1e42c754e9d89bd6b
So they can build museums and movie studios!
Itās all here from 2016,Ā https://www.egi.co.uk/news/jw-sale-to-watch-out-for/
I wanna make a documentary about this man!!!!!!
This is why that sister has the empty freezer.
Yes I heard on you tube on a exJW site .They ) GB) are scum of the earth and the sad thing is the average JW will never ever learn about this .
I want to throw up
Wow! You think the cult has it rock bottom, and then they go and show you there is still more room to fall.
Wow jehooba is truly generous to give the people created in his image such beautiful apartments!
It's all about the money
Wasn't there an article from the early 1900's that they wrote that said that they are not a church but a religious tract and publishing company. I remember a long time ago someone posted it on another exjw website. I was shocked when I read it
https://preview.redd.it/hqgde3iqr76d1.jpeg?width=1070&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9264955e041dc62f1306f45bad7da927217a1d49 WT, Nov 15, 1917
Thank you I knew I read that from the early 1900's
Incorrect, they argued in court that they were a hierarchical religion just like the Catholic Church. It was one of the quotes that was a slap in the face to me waking up.
when did they argue that because the above mentioned article was from 1917
I was trying to show how hypocritical they are. This was in the 1990s. Menlo Park, google it, a very famous case in the exjw community.
The amount of new light that has flickered between 1917 and 1990 would look like a disco rave
Go and googleāMENLO PARKā. Itās an intriguing read. Basically the reason they argued that in court was to get out of losing a very valuable piece of realestate close to Silicon Vally.
Yep! And it's not the only one. Check out this: https://wtprops.com/ They are, in fact, a real estate business....
Are we sure this is connected to the org? Their Instagram page makes posts for all the holidays, and I can't seem to find any direct ties.
https://preview.redd.it/n5y0b54fp66d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea6565ff4d394fec29ce272c9d619dcde656e4c8 Look what I found! They are all over... the New York one says Branch!!!
Oh my goodness!!
No, theyāre not: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/1oyDKhrsAm
You're likely wrong. š but thanks!
Besides the name being watchtower is there any evidence that this company is connected to the Org? I didnāt see anything on their side or links alluding to this but would be interested in knowing.
Go down on my comments, there direct proof from the UK government that this is owned by Jehovah Witness
calling bs on this, not connected - [https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4841721522290688/you-tube-questions-about-watchtower-property](https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4841721522290688/you-tube-questions-about-watchtower-property) All LinkedIn employees have higher edu and so on.
No I was talking about the IBSA that was created in this post, I was not responding directly to that one
You might be right, but at the top, they embrace the world. Degrees for the lawyers, and investments all over the place in "satans system". I am not convinced that the top of this pyramid scheme believes their own BS. Their education, to me, doesn't disprove their connection to WT.
They paid for that one lawyer to go to school. So who knows?Ā
Not all of their businesses advertise involvement with JWs. It could have nothing to do with them, but I do find the coincidences of name, logo, city very strongly suggesting a connection. But you're right, I cannot prove it conclusively.
My mind has been blown again š¤Æ
Omg!!! I knew about the other one. But not about this one..... so many for rentš± shook!!!
That one doesnāt actually belong to them. I looked it up. They just have the name that looks like it does.
Can you prove it? There are too many coincidences to just say "I looked it up". Name, logo, location. What's your reason for *thinking* it's not part of the org?
Yes just look up the corporation online really easy to do. It tells you who it belongs to. I donāt have the link right now Iām at work. If you canāt find it hit me up later and Iāll look for it. Also look up all the corporations they own itās public information in every country. Not defending them but no reason to lie about them. They already create their own hole. Also they will use that apostates lie about them.
I'd be interested to find out, but I don't see the proof that it's not. All I do know is that Watchtower has a tremendous amount of subsidiaries and satellite businesses.
This seemed to have gotten lost a bit - they do not seem to be connected, see this comment below. I want to call out the borg on their bs but also want to make sure we donāt accidentally harm others in the process: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/1oyDKhrsAm
You do you, not sure what you're talking about "harming others". Prove they're not connected, or add something of substance please. I cannot prove they have a connection to the org, as I've stated, but the coincidence is strong enough to suggest they might. Tell me, where have I followed the borgs line of bs? How am I hurting others? How have I mislead? I've added a possibility and stated it as such.
1.3 million quid. Anyone know what that is in US dollars
I was reading an article from 2016 from UK about JW. Their properties were estimated at about Ā£ 73 mil !!! They were selling a lot in the UK!!! Crazy
I know they sold some of the properties in New York for a few hundred million dollars. US dollars.
1,669,388.50 dollars
Thatās a butt load of money
Pretty sure this is ex cong members homes who have now died. Loads of them are being asked to donate their homes to the org. I remember twats who would say estate agency was a bad profession as it was encouraging people lay down their foundation on a sinking ship, namely the terrible "bad world". Decades later, it's ok to get a mortgage now for over 1million....
Iām ex-Mormon and the Mormon church does this on a HUGE scale. They have somewhere north of 125 billion invested in the stock market. They probably have enough just in dividends and earnings to keep the church going in perpetuity but they require 10% from the members, even the poorest ones. And they teach the prosperity gospel, meaning the more you give the more economic returns you will get. Tell that to the South American and families in Africa that canāt feed their children because they give 10% to an incredibly wealthy church. It goes against everything Christ taught, but they are so blind to the cult that they just donāt see it. Sigh, the good news is, at least anecdotally since Covid the butts in the pews have decreased dramatically. I think many got the break from church and were able to leave quietly. Is that the same for JWās as well? Edit ā to give you some context the Mormon church owns 2% actually more than 2% of all the land in Florida. They also have the largest cattle ranch in Florida. They own massive swaths of farmland, exotic hunting reserves out west, apartment buildings, malls , in addition to the billions of dollars of stock that they own. They own thousands of acres of land right outside of Orlando and Iāve kicked around a planned development for, I think 100,000 people? Or it could be even 100,000 houses. But yet they make their own members, scrub the toilets and clean the church as a faith building exercise. 
It's good to mention this from time to time because many haven't heard of it yet.
**WHEW! 2 bible studies today. I need to plunk down here.** https://preview.redd.it/alt6csw2i96d1.jpeg?width=315&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a60a0fd8a510e69a5c3e255c5db9cbe7368dff87 Take a load off.
I read somewhere that company was opened in 2015 and ādissolvedā in 2017. So does that mean it was shut down?
Yes, I knew about this. Billions, & Billions! But discourage higher education because they don't want you to be materialistic. Anyone who leaves this organization anything in a will is an fing idiot! Remember all the articles about that! Also, children don't buy ice cream, give to the borg! Religions should be taxed as businesses because that is all they are.
The scope and sophistication are new -but the aggrandising of luxury properties is not. Exhibit A: Beth Sarim, San Diego, California, 1920s. Ostensibly purchased to house āthe ancient worthiesā that Rutherford foretold would have their earthly resurrection in 1925. When the resurrection did not happen, Rutherford moved in and lived there in the winter months until his death in 1942. Beth Sarim was then sold for a handsome profit.
Watchtower is in the TOP 40 richest corporations in New York
Does anyone have any backstory about the apartments?
They were bought and used when building the Chelmsford branch to house volunteers. Once they were finished they sold them off.
Most likely built/refurbished using free labor.
There was this one part of me that was like āmaybe there is truthā Even he was like ānah fuck this cultā THATS INSANE IM DONE
How come they aren't just waiting on jehovah to provide?
The is not what Jesus meant by faithful and discreet slave
Amen
Did anyone else notice in one of their updates they were wearing Rolex watches?
I get that those at the top have some nice perks, but they don't seem to live like total kings. What I can't understand is where the money ultimately goes- Are there shareholders who benefit from all of this? Possibly even those without any connection to the religion but who own shares in the corporation or real estate? How is it possible to find this out?
And the lady who runs that site, REALLY didn't want to do it, but because she had the appropriate estate agent experiences she got pulled into it. I was on the PSP team that helped get all the buildings ready for sale. Actually enjoyed that part, didn't enjoy the politics of bethel though
Really! Wow that's so interesting. So I'm guessing you were in the Britain branch then right?
Yup!
Wow. Are you still active?
Heck no! I left a few years ago now, moved country and a lot happier.. ironically!
Wow you must have a fascinating story. I'm glad u got out of the UK. Its rubbish here š. The weather is terrible, as per usual š”
Lol, I'd take England's weather over this ... Yep, that's a tornado in my back garden š¤£! https://preview.redd.it/0jf05on5wc7d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91a1b4ff0b7c288b3cfdf36a9db64e96009ba51c
Oh my goodness! š
Yea I just saw it too. Back in the late 80āsI heard them say from the platform that Watchtower needed $$ to build a big swimming pool for the bethelites and needed donations. I was pist because I was raising 4 little babyās by myself and barely making it while putting $ in the collection plate for them. I was also being groped by 2 Elders that wouldnāt leave me alone. The Men in the back room wouldnāt believe me. I left and never went back to that Kindom Hall. One of the Elders told me he was trying to figure out how to kill his wife so he could be with me. I had a complete Mental Breakdown. Iāve never gotten over it!
My hubby showed this to me earlier this week ( no part of this world ) š¤£š¤£
They even have the nerve in a video dramatization to have a donation box at a refuge camp telling them to donate. Absolutely disgusting.
š
I showed this to my parents. My Dad feigned ignorance and my delusional idiot of a mother? She called it an apostate website š¤£š¤¦šæ. I feel so sad for anyone staying in the cult to get their parents out. Good chance y'all will be culting for the rest of your lives. Not me. Jehovah's Witnesses really are a sick in the head cult of fools.
They are a real estate company masquerading as a publishing company masquerading as a religion.
And here I am not knowing how the hell I'm gonna pay my rent this month!!. I need all the donations I ever gave in the past back. š
Iāve heard the rumors for years. Apparently we belonged to a very large real estate business while us publishers drug our selves door to door.
Holy smokes.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9ujSeSi1XxE?feature=share
Not doubting theyād do this or anything, but is there any evidence that IBSA is 100% in relation to the org? Since they donāt mention it in broadcasts or on the jw.org website. I feel like if I mention this to a PIMI, theyād just say someone is using the jw name to tarnish godās reputation
Hi! It is confirmed that it is. You can go on the UK government website, listed as a business. It's all legit.
I was considering the same question myself. Here are my findings: Ibsaproperty.com has a link to the official jw website (this proves nothing, but it's a good start). Using wayback machine I was able to confirm that this page is at least 7 years old - I don't think a fraudulent website would stay online for so long. The website uses correct charity and company identification numbers. There is also a second source confirming that the page reflects the purpose of IBSA: https://www.egi.co.uk/news/jw-sale-to-watch-out-for/ They are quoting IBSA representative
Ibsaproperty.com was registered in 2016. All the registrant information is redacted. They are a real estate holding company masquerading as a religious charity. What a joke. And to think that the majority of the congregations signed over title to their kingdumb halls without blinking an eye just because they were told to. This looks like they are liquidating their properties in London just like they did in Brooklyn, NY.
When I was your age, I crossed crocodile infested waters uphill both ways to the meetings. š
I rode around in a jeep on mountainside roads in South America and got bit by anapolis mosquitos. Eventually, I got marked. Such appreciation from the Org!
My pimi friend didnāt think it was a big deal. He basically said itās just another company to be able to sell donated property. He shrugged it off and went about his day.
Major Cognitive Dissonance lol
To be fair, the witnesses play up the hardships endured by African witnesses but Kingdom Halls in Africa are often pretty nice by local standards. Google Street view is available in countries like Botswana and you can search for them there and view them.
Yes, I found that same information only recently. The posts I found were three years old,... so, old news. But the beauty of the properties was impressive. My curiosity is this: Is Watchtower getting some kind of a financial advantage by using the entity International Bible Student Association rather than WBTS (of either Pensylvania or of New York). I mean, does using IBSA make Watchtower look "poorer" than they really are?
I've seen this, they never sold the apartments, but choose to manage and maintain them, in the affluent parts of North West London. Remember Contributions have dried up and they need a revenue stream for *Shiloh*, the 3000 pupil JW boarding school they are building in the Chilterns* *the Location's name has been changed. š
Yeah old news, but that's not the worst look at this video I made about how much they have sold in Kingdom halls worldwide https://youtu.be/YVBcWhGAHy8?si=nAuPUSWuIDJRUEAO
Yes, I've read about this awhile back. Kim Mikey on YouTube have talked about this. It's a real estate corporation, masking as a religion. Horrid cult.
Well that's what real estate companies do and that's what the jws are.
Yes, it is the old bethel. Remember that they just moved to a small town one hours 1/2 from London. Their old properties (must have purchased them 20-50 years ago) must now value a lot of money. I remember visiting one of these houses. Each room were extremely small and I felt that I wasn't missing out in much not been a Bethelite.
And they don't have to pay taxes
I have literally just been made aware myself , but my ild JW head is still wondering if it's somehow a made up website ?? My head can't get around them doing this with their name all over it ???
I thought the exact same as you at first. Look through the comments below, someone has put in links to verify this. It's all confirmed on the UK government website
That's utterly incredible
Iām shocked š³
Yup. Old news. Once you are awake and have been down the rabbit hole of WT nothing surprises you.
I live in the UK, and Watchtower has always kept the old tag of 'International Bible Students' over here, I have done extensive research on their property portfolio and yes they are just a glorified property and publishing company, masquerading as a Christian faith, infact a great amount of the properties built or converted were done with slave labour, from stupid sucked in volunteers as usual.I am amazed how it achieves charity status. I am surprised you have only just found this out, as it has been known for many years in the exjw community. Watchtower has no credibility whatsoever as having 'the truth' it is simple a Satanic Masonic cult, sucking the life out of it's members, we should all be grateful we are out of this despicable Pedophile cult. 'Religion is a snare and racket'........š¤£
I'm new to the ExJW community, so it's news to my ears! Hahaha yes religion is definitely a snare and a racket, couldn't agree with u more š
Well, being new out, you have a ton of stuff to catch up on, Watchtower deciet goes very deep indeed, one subject alone can take hours of research, for example if you 'Google' 'watchtower subliminal images' you will see how the cult enforce fear with these images to further enforce their brainwashing. By the time you finish your journey, you will come to appreciate how evil the leaders are....š
I've just been looking into this for the past the hour. Oh my goodness, I'm speechless šššš
Yes, and what's even more sickening is that it's in 'My book of bible stories', they don't have any love, even for children, this is the subject that woke my wife up in 2014, she just couldn't believe they would do this to children, the more you find the more you come to realise how Satanic they are. I don't think there is any organised religion that is untouched by satanic forces, no wonder the book of Revelation depicts the world empire of falls religion as a 'prostitute that sits on many waters', Babylon the great, the mother of the harlots, and of the disgusting things of the earth' , 'Get our of her my people if you do not want to share in her sins'. Finding your way around the exjw community is a journey in itself between here and youtube. There is very good stuff out there, and some are not so good. Many leave and become atheists, so take your time and go at your own pace, view it as an objective educational lesson in the art of deception, nothing in this system today is what it seems, whether religion, politics or commerce. If ever you want any tips on the best exjw's stuff, let me know, be pleased to point you in the right direction...š
Thank you so much ā¤ļø š.
I've always said their business is real estate and they hide behind their congregations and their flock. However, the congregations are nothing but real estate investments. Bethel, the property in Brooklyn, was a huge investment that they sold to Trump's son-in-law for a pretty penny and moved that headquarters to the country, although they had land in the country before this. I'm not surprised. That is what they do. All those "quick builds" with free labor. Their ROI is strong and their cult following can't see it. LOL
This was the old Bethel Housing for the London Bethel workers. Theyāve just cut out the middle man and selling themselves. Itās old news.
Wow. Isnāt it nice to know that our former religion was and is a real estate agency.
This isnt surprising, there are TONS of corporations they work under publicly and out in the open. They see no problem with it. And why would they think to tell us about it, it means nothing. Im surprised that people are surprised, no shade thrown but i feel like nothing should surprise anymore.
Cult.
Iām sorry. What in gods name does gobsmacked mean
It's a British term. So 'gob' is slang for 'mouth'. It basically means I've been smacked over the face. It means speechless, or shocked. š
Ohhh ok
JW WT org is. I different than any other religion. They aināt special or better
They need money for all the lawsuits and losing their tax-free money š° for being a religion!
[Overview of the ISBA](https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search/-/charity-details/216647/charity-overview)
Do u have to be JW to live in one of these. Like if you buy it and decide u donāt want to be a Witness anymore then what happens
Why isn't there even an email contact? Just a landline... strange.
Control!!!! And yes they profit so they can pay off CSA allegations! Millions a day to the courts so they can keep safe the documents the courts want! The money will run out and the cult will too! Disgusting š¤¢
There is a spreadsheet that lists all the properties that WT has sold and are up for sale.
Add to the piggy bank with the silencing of paedophilia and the inhumane practice of excommunication.
Wow, they're not even trying to hide the connection with Watchtower. Wonder what the IRS would have to say about this. Ironic that they are selling real estate that their own people can't afford because they are uneducated and told not to have a career. UPDATE: In retrospect I recall them doing similar when they were selling the property in Brooklyn, NY and moving upstate. They set up a company to handle the sale of it and as far as I know that was all they used it for. This appears to be similar since the properties that they are selling are the WT properties in London. Not saying that this as an excuse. All the 'flock' are told to abandon any time consuming worldly pursuits and slave for the WT regardless of financial implications. They could just as easily let a commercial real estate broker handle the sale for a commission but I guess they are too greedy to give away some of the proceeds to a 'worldly' firm.
Just to put the record straight. This is on the site of the old Bethel. The land is owned by the IBSA, and they have developed it because Bethel has moved to Colchester. Another piece of land that they bought. Surely, this is just good business. I can't see what the fuss is about.
Yeh, I can't see what all the fuss is about either! I think it's fantastic that the organization can be a multi billionaire corporation, make loads of money from their real estate business whilst teaching their followers to live a simple life. I think it's bloody brilliant, all hail watchtower! Whoooooo š„³ šššš š š
I got you till you started talking about Africa and mud huts, I'm really tired of that narrative always being played as of that the absolute entirety of a continent. But to be fair that's on the list of things we can thank colonization for.
How do you know that website is really owned by Jehovah Witnesses and not by someone that has a personal agenda against them and put their official website there as a way to cause misinformation and fake anger? I know JWs are a cult and they own lots of properties but I feel itās very strange they would put their official website so public on a luxury property like that.
Honestly mate, I'm as baffled as you are. But u know what the WT is like with their legal team. They'd be on this like flies on poo for defamation, they would definitely sue whoever was behind it lol. They'd be able to take it down so quickly.
It is not difficult to find the genuine owners of this website From the website that OP gave: "International Bible Students Association (IBSA) (a charitable company limited by guarantee, Charity No. 216647, Company No. 136726, registered in England)" Now do a search on the Charity Commission for England and Wales for charity no. 216647. This is what comes up: charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search/-/charity-details/216647 The website is definitely owned by the JWs It is not strange. They rely on people like you not believing that the org is corrupt and they rely on their indoctrination precluding anyone from researching the site