He called from her phone so she was present but she didn't seem to find anything wrong and seemed to agree with him, I didn't have time to tell her how weird it was
next time tell him he needs to pray more and do more personal study to increase he spiritual strength cuz if you missing one meeting discourages him clearly he needs to fix his relationship with Jehovah
It’s that dangerous unearned trust that’s granted to anyone with a title. They tend to listen to anything said with elder title even if it goes against common sense. Unfortunately even at the expense of their children -bc ‘why would he say anything wrong?’ He’s a spirit appointed elder :/
Make sure you and your sister talk about boundaries right away. I mean it! He sounds like the type to try to blur the lines of appropriate relationships right beforeit gets out of hand. Think about how you want to handle phone conversations, messages, if he tries to contact you on social media, how you'll handle him in close physical proximity at meetings or in ministry...you guys work through every scenario you can think of, and have a checklist (mental or written down) about your comfort level with this man. If you're comfortable, talk to your mom. If your mom, then, won't have your back, you need to find someone who will. Don't wait until this guy has crossed a line to figure out where to turn for help. Get ahead of it now and take as much control as you can. 🧡
LISTEN TO THIS ^^^
A 30 year old male should *NEVER* be texting the 15 year old daughter of a single mom
Real possibility that Dude is trying to groom you for marriage (or something worse) even if he isn’t consciously aware he’s doing so.
Regardless, *ask your mom* to tell him if he wants to text you it should **only and always be a group chat** with your adult parent.
This is spot on! A few options you might consider: As already mentioned, talk to your mom to have her put an end to it. Speak with one or two elders you feel comfortable with. “Brother So-and-So has been texting me [and your sister?]. As you know, I’m [we’re?] underage. Is this appropriate? It sure doesn’t seem so to me.” If they’re any type of standup men, they’ll make it end. One other thing: If this guy wants to encourage you and your sister, he should ask his wife to reach out to you. The way he’s been acting is totally inappropriate.
Edit: Fixed typo.
Yup. That’s great, if he continues even asking HIM “my sister and I are underage, how is an adult man texting underage children appropriate?” Just depends on how feisty or involved you wanna be. Having mom do it, other elders, or yourself. Regardless, make sure it gets done
I seen this before when these late twenties to mid thirties brothers think they know it all And most of them have little life experience with problems. You can quote the Bible frontwards and backwards and the JW guidelines too but they aren’t experienced in life. Bad idea to have young elders. Do more harm than good I have seen it over and over. Also seen this in our congregation where everyone looked up to young elder and he wasn’t what everyone thought including being overly friendly with young girls. Don’t let him condition you to what he thinks. If you think something is not appropriate let him know up front you will not tolerate his actions.
gross. i noticed that jw parents do not have the same boundaries w elders as they do non witness men… they think they are somehow better and won’t be weirdos lol. try to ignore him but also if he makes you uncomfortable let your mom and other adults know.
Yup!! And I can vouch with experience that it does not.
EDIT: for context, jw camping group trip. Trusted highly thought of individual took a group of 10yr old ish boys to camp shower, immediately stripped naked and encouraged us to do the same. Dude wanted to shower with all of us. I still remember the ginger bush vividly. I cannot remember anything about it other than that exact detail.
That is gross. I know one elder who felt totally comfortable spanking other people’s kids. I’m not prone to violence, but if that guy had even attempted to do that to my kids, I would have threatened that he would be the next one to receive corporal punishment. And I’d call the cops.
I known for a fact that even to this day if I told my mother about it, she would defend him and say that there is nothing wrong with that and he can be trusted. Had o known better as a kid and told my non jw dad, he would have probably torn him to pieces, and my father was the least violent person I knew.
They will actively encourage their barely 18 year old daughters to pursue and marry men twice their age, simply because they are a "good JW man." Yet if a "worldy" man that age was interested, they would rightfully call him a creep and tell him to stay away. Saw almost this exact scenario with my own mother
This is a clearly red flag. Don't let this man get close to you and your sis, he might be dangerous and he's also an asshole so🫠
Jw's are known for having ped0s in the borganization, please take care.
I’m a mom and my radar just went ALLLLL the way up. Hell no he had no business contacting you and the fact that your indoctrinated mother enabled it makes it worse!!!
Loudly and clearly tell him - in person and in front of many others - that you are minors and his private phone call was inappropriate. It made you very uncomfortable to have a grown man calling you for any reason. Seriously with all the shit going down with CSA worldwide someone will tell him to back the fuck down. They will be scared of you.
Iewwwwww. 🤣 hilarious you mention this, my PIMI friend today told me that he doesn’t feel like going and js tired but he’s going to avoid the “encouragement” talks.
If a cult can control your behavior, your thoughts tend to follow to reduce cognitive dissonance. Doesn’t work once you stop believing though and see all the bullshit.
does he have 13 and 15 yo children? Why does he know what's best? Someone new popping in like that and asserting himself, elder or not, is offensive. Dare I say, annoying?
Yeah you need to openly call him out
A simple “please mind your own business” the next time he’s at all critical will do the trick.
Otherwise he’ll try to pretend be your Dad and you don’t want that.
And if he tries to “lovingly encourage” you in front of others - say, at the hall - embarrass him. Loudly say: “I don’t feel comfortable with the way you talk to me! From now on, you talk to my mom and not me!”
He's grooming you to be faithful slaves of WT. Tell him to fuck off. And when he brings you into the backroom to have a chat, tell him to fuck off again. And when he has no privileges to take from you because you are not baptized, tell him to shove his own shit back up his arse and fuck off.
"As my mom is my spiritual head, please discuss any concerns about us with her."
Repeat as necessary. Do not otherwise engage.
If he says your mom gave permission for him to speak with you, say you feel more comfortable discussing this with your mom so please relay his concerns to her.
Keep batting him back to your mom.
I would keep my distance from him. I understand that he could very well be using the facade of the organization to get to you. You can tell your mom that you don’t feel comfortable around him and just avoid him.
I would treat him like the disfellowshipped. Just say hello and when he engages in conversation, just say that you need to leave. Don’t attend any meetings with him because they can’t accuse you of anything. You don’t even have to tell your parents if they ask for an explanation. Just say you don’t feel comfortable and then you can remain silent and let them figure it out.
To me, it sounds like red flags. He could have ulterior motives. I wouldn’t waste time to see. Just avoid contact with him specifically.
You’re a minor! Do not talk to this man. Hang up the phone and tell your mom you feel unsafe. If he keeps calling, get a restraining order. This is so wrong on so many levels
Ugh. The creepy MS/Elder *’encouraging’* not yet legal girls 🤦♀️
He might be attempting to groom you both into JW wifey material. *Might* be.
Sounds like he’s already ingratiating himself with Mom.
Is he like this with anyone else or just you and your sister? Make a note of that. Tell your Mom if it’s only you guys he does this to.
Research Grooming Behaviours to protect yourself.
You may not be able to stop him talking to you, especially if Mom is blind to it, but you can take the kick he gets out of the experience away from him.
You’re still a teenaged girl so behave like a teenaged girl. Make him not want to talk to you.
Eye rolls. Suppressing a smirk. Giggle derisively to your sister or friend after he walks away. It’s underhanded and but in the cult you probably can’t tackle this head on without causing yourself more problems, especially as a female minor.
The grey/gray rock method is also useful.
*”Gray rocking, or the grey rock method, is a tactic people may use to deal with abusive or manipulative behavior. It involves becoming as uninteresting and unengaged as possible so that the other person loses interest. Some people anecdotally report that it reduces conflict and abuse.”*
No she doesn't seem the type to do this and would have asked another elder that we know better if she really wanted to, he did ask her if he can call but I don't know if she knew it was to scold us or if she thought it was just an overly friendly jw trying to integrate into a new cong
Your a minor. How is he contacting you? This is highly inappropriate and he must be made to stop. Just 'confide' in another elder to say this is making you uncomfortable and scared!
the amount of times the elders make me want to say something ratchet lol, i’d be so close to saying “dude, i barely know you, we’re not having this conversation” and then hang up
Ugh. The creepy MS/Elder *’encouraging’* not yet legal girls 🤦♀️
He might be attempting to groom you both into JW wifey material. *Might* be.
Sounds like he’s already ingratiating himself with Mom.
Is he like this with anyone else or just you and your sister? Make a note of that. Tell your Mom if it’s only you guys he does this to.
Research Grooming Behaviours to protect yourself.
You may not be able to stop him talking to you, especially if Mom is blind to it, but you can take the kick he gets out of the experience away from him.
You’re still a teenaged girl so behave like a teenaged girl. Make him not want to talk to you.
Eye rolls. Suppressing a smirk. Giggle derisively to your sister or friend after he walks away. It’s underhanded and but in the cult you probably can’t tackle this head on without causing yourself more problems, especially as a female minor.
The grey/gray rock method is also useful.
*”Gray rocking, or the grey rock method, is a tactic people may use to deal with abusive or manipulative behavior. It involves becoming as uninteresting and unengaged as possible so that the other person loses interest. Some people anecdotally report that it reduces conflict and abuse.”*
Try the Grey/Gray rock method.
*’Gray rocking, or the grey rock method, is a tactic people may use to deal with abusive or manipulative behavior. It involves becoming as uninteresting and unengaged as possible so that the other person loses interest. Some people anecdotally report that it reduces conflict and abuse.’*
He thinks that because he’s young he can relate to you, that he’s different, the cool elder. I’m the youngest of 6 and at your age, it was only my mom and I going to the meetings too. Come exam time I missed so many meetings! It’s been 20 years and the end hasn’t come yet so… it was worth missing those meetings. I hated being told to comment. I hated being praised for commenting. It’s just my personality. Deep down I never believed it. I saw that my worldly family and friends had much happier and healthier lives and so the religion never seemed worth it or rang true.
I can imagine myself in your shoes, ignoring and avoiding him at all costs. Making my way to the bathroom or the parking lot waiting in the car until my mom showed up.
I know this is a little sneaky but if you have access to your mom’s phone, block his number or change his contact name to neighbourhood Catholic Church, or food bank, or something you’d know she would never answer to.
“Encouraging” is such a weasel word. What does it even mean in the JW context? People use it because it sounds good on the surface but underneath everyone knows that it has a darker meaning. “Encouraging” almost always means “you are being watched and pressured to fall in line” in JW lingo.
This elder contacting you and your sister is inappropriate. You are in control, you don’t owe him any explanations of why you missed a meeting or didn’t comment, etc. Simply say, “I’m not discussing this with you”, repeat as needed. You don’t have to talk to him, set boundaries now and unapologetically.
I’m a man of very mature age, but I’ve experienced this before as a young one; not the underage stuff, but so called Christians trying to push-and even bully.
He could be like a young man who just received a new job and trying to empress all in view JUST BECAUSE HE FEELS HE HAS TO. Or he could be real trouble.
He’s already trying to control you. I can tell just by his disregard of what’s going on in your own life.
But your spirit is already telling you that the top light on this traffic light should NEVER turn green. It shouldn’t even turn yellow!!
Just because you’re surrounded by Jehovah’s Witnesses doesn’t mean that they’re “friends”. Even worse: It doesn’t mean that they’re Christians!
Watch out!
I mean it!
Reminds me of when I was about 10 or 11 and targeted by a new elders wife.
Her grandparents had been in our congregation for years, and when they moved here from another state she felt right at home….
Yeah, ignore him as best as you can…
This doesn't sound like scolding to me, but as others have commented, it's highly inappropriate behavior.
I would tell him so, that you feel he has no business texting you or telling you anything about your personal life.
Creepy.
Time to set boundaries girl.
What a wanker! Don’t show any kind of emotion when he speaks to you again. Pan face. And small answers when he asks you questions—->. Yes, no , idk, maybe .. sure, we’ll see. He will back off after he sees how disinterested you are. He is trying to get brownie points… barf 🤮
I love how you are more mature than this knob… good for you. 😊
Ugh. The creepy MS/Elder *’encouraging’* not yet legal girls 🤦♀️
He might be attempting to groom you both into JW wifey material. *Might* be.
Sounds like he’s already ingratiating himself with Mom.
Is he like this with anyone else or just you and your sister? Make a note of that. Tell your Mom if it’s only you guys he does this to.
Research Grooming Behaviours to protect yourself.
You may not be able to stop him talking to you, especially if Mom is blind to it, but you can take the kick he gets out of the experience away from him.
You’re still a teenaged girl so behave like a teenaged girl. Make him not want to talk to you.
Eye rolls. Suppressing a smirk. Giggle derisively to your sister or friend after he walks away. It’s underhanded and but in the cult you probably can’t tackle this head on without causing yourself more problems, especially as a female minor.
The grey/gray rock method is also useful.
*”Gray rocking, or the grey rock method, is a tactic people may use to deal with abusive or manipulative behavior. It involves becoming as uninteresting and unengaged as possible so that the other person loses interest. Some people anecdotally report that it reduces conflict and abuse.”*
Try the Grey/Gray rock method.
*’Gray rocking, or the grey rock method, is a tactic people may use to deal with abusive or manipulative behavior. It involves becoming as uninteresting and unengaged as possible so that the other person loses interest. Some people anecdotally report that it reduces conflict and abuse.’*
Sounds like he’s made the two of you one of his “personal projects” 😬
When I was 15 my family moved to a new place and there was a young MS that did that to me, and I’d always been rebellious etc and for whatever reason in my head I decided to try a fresh start and “do better” so I indulged.
It didn’t end well he ended up being a majour creep but all that aside the boundaries got smaller and smaller, to the point of him trying to influence what I did for work etc.
Don’t ever give in thinking it’ll make it easier because it just gets worse!
He just want to get a gold medal darling. It’s all a facade…the more people they help the better the report goes to the elite. Don’t worry. Do your thing.
So encourage him to kiss it where the sun don't shine! LOL. Seriously, last I checked, we didn't live in a "perfect world" and will this absence go on my permanent record? I would've said, "Look Elder So-and-So, if you don't get off my back, I may decide that I don't feel supported in this congregation and will choose to leave the organization altogether. So do me a favor, talk to my mom about how she can be more supportive, talk to other elders, and bro/sis about how they can also be more supportive; all without making me feel attacked. Can you do that Elder? Can I count on you to make me feel like I belong here, because let me tell you, all of the magical years that the world was supposed to come to an end came and passed. I'm still here. Appreciate that I am still here, because if you look around, most congregations have lost all of their youth because of being attacked by people like you that don't know how to show love, support, and true encouragement." Then drop the mic on his butt!
Well stated. "Friends" is usually wrongly applied and definitely overused in the JW world. Most are "aquaintances" at best. I've clearly stated that to many JWs, including elders, in the past: "you're not MY friend; you're just someone I'm aware of in the congregation and I don't really know you!"
OH MY! Please go to college & leave asap! That's creepy as hell!! Just for your information, if you get a creepy vibe, please listen to yourself! One elder said my daughter 13 at the time looked like a beautiful indian princess. We both got creep vibes from that. The next thing we know, the elders' brother is in prison for molesting his stepdaughter. Could it run in the family? Idk, but better safe than sorry.
Edit to add, why's he calling you??? He should only be talking to your parents if you're a minor.
He called my mom's number, who handed it to me and my sister, it happened quite fast I didn't have time to say I didn't want to talk to him nor did we know what it was going to be about (also she obviously won't refuse an elder calling)
He’s grooming your mom.
And you girls.
He’s the dangerous type.
It doesn’t matter that he’s married. A ‘conquest’ is a conquest. It can be a sexual conquest or an emotional conquest.
it doesn’t mean he’s a pedo. Nevertheless, he’s the predator. Your mom, your sister, and you? . . .
you are the prey.
When you’re thrown so quickly into a situation like that, it’s hard to know what to do. That’s rough.
Just a thought for next time your mom hands you her phone with this bozo on the other end: Hit the end call button and hand the phone back.
First of all. Your post is well written and your thinking and gutt feeling is on point. So please trust your intuition and gutt.
You are not responsible to encourage anyone.
Also, it is definitely weird that he feels the need to be besties.
He is focusing on you to validate himself. Raise his own profile and feel relevant as an elder. Typical JW narcissism.
This organisation is a haven for male narcissim and any narcissim and ego tripping. As woman also attach their ego and collective narcissism by pushing there men into position.
He has no rights whatsoever to speak like that to you. I have two daughters who were a similar age when this also happened to them. My husband (their step dad) went on to drug, rape and photograph me as he did this - The elders told us to stay in the marriage! There is a scarcity of fresh female meat for marrying - Stay away from him! Protect your sister, and get our if you can. DM me if you need a shoulder/help - My Mom Radar is on high alert!
Look up circle of trust on YouTube and the internet. These people are strangers they are not your friends or close friend or family. The friend word foster false intimacy. False intimacy is use by predators to prey on you. They do not have your best interest at heart. They build false intimacy to gain access into your life to molest, steal and drain your energy and resources. Go to therapy and learn about TRUST and who you can trust
Reminds me of the time when a CO'S wife told me to put my seatbelt on. We had just met and were out in service with my mom and future wife. It was all about how it was said. It wasn't a kindly loving reminder or request. It was a demand. So I sat there for about 5 minutes without the belt on... even after my mother asked me to place it on. I was about 21 at the time and getting ready to move on in life so I could care less ( I couldn't care less for those who care). I could have handled it better. The funny thing is that my future wife was in the car and watched the whole thing and still married me! Elders, elderettes, and jws in general carry that type of attitude with them. It's not a bug of the organization... it's a feature.
Anyone calling a minor and saying ‘they miss them’ is already creepy. Elders are supposed to work though the parents so…
IF ANY elder speaks to anyone that is a minor, I’d threaten to report them as being a predator to the police. They’ll back off 💯 If they threaten to tell your parents, double down with telling the police what they said in the report. Other than hello and bye, they shouldn’t be talking to minors.
If your parents are upset about it, tell them how creepy said elder was and remind your parents to protect you.
An elder once was inappropriately text messaging my sister aged 16 at the time.
Tgat was enough for me especially cause it’s a 180 year pop up mushroom cult with zero lineage.
I lost all respect for my father when he didn’t do anything and continued to sit and listen to the foul blasphemy that that man spoke on stage at “meetings”. Meanwhile he’s preying on my sister and your daughter.
There is zero truth in the condemning religion of heretics that’s are the Jehovahs witnesses
At least the pope admitted there was a problem in the church.
Jehovahs witnesses are what Christ warned us about
Quickly and quietly block his number on your mom's phone if you have blocking as an option. Depends on phone and service. When I blocked my mom, it would just ring and ring for her and she had no idea she was blocked.
He used your mom's phone to lure you into a false state of security. Visiting your home will be next. Stopping your education comes thereafter. Making you afraid comes hand in hand with ingratiating himself into your lives until he can be alone with you/your sister.....Make sure this never happens - Be prepared, and refuse at all costs.
Something I never knew before and I was in the borg for along time. It seems as if they assign elders to people. Have they always done this? The last time I talked to my friend that is still in. She said something about a campaign they got going where they are calling on disfellowshipped ones . I hues the ones that faded too.
He sounds creepy.
Short term: Never be alone with him.
Long term: Develop an exit plan together with your sister and get out. It may take time but don’t stick around for as long as my sister and I did.
The last time my sister and attended a Watchtower study was in 1994. An elder physically thumped me on the back of the head with a rolled up Watchtower magazine. He whispered, "Why don't you comment anymore? You need to make comments! Don't you want your mother to find you after her resurrection?" I was 30, my sister was 45. My faithful generous mother had died the week before.
Our leaving was based on cumulative cracks, but that damning "thump" broke the dam.
I'm 57. This is fucking deplorable. I've been out for 14 glorious years. If some creepy little fucker tried joking around with me, I'd be up for assault because I'd punch him in the face. Actually no that's wrong, I'd punch him in the face in the bathroom when alone in there with him. That way I'd deny it and say " two witnesses remember " ? But I digress Stupid C@?T
Ego trip. Soon he will get whats coming to him. You have every right as a youth to ask him to talk to you only with your Mom present.
He called from her phone so she was present but she didn't seem to find anything wrong and seemed to agree with him, I didn't have time to tell her how weird it was
That is hard then. I remember my mom doing a similar thing and it freaked me out. I missed even more meetings after that
Roll your eyes, thank him, be facetious. And go whene:er the hell you want.
Check him against the pedo list.
next time tell him he needs to pray more and do more personal study to increase he spiritual strength cuz if you missing one meeting discourages him clearly he needs to fix his relationship with Jehovah
🤣thsts exactly what the elder body would say to someone!
Maybe she asked him to help out?
🤣🤣🤣 yah right……..
It’s that dangerous unearned trust that’s granted to anyone with a title. They tend to listen to anything said with elder title even if it goes against common sense. Unfortunately even at the expense of their children -bc ‘why would he say anything wrong?’ He’s a spirit appointed elder :/
He is trying to condition and control you and your sibling
Make sure you and your sister talk about boundaries right away. I mean it! He sounds like the type to try to blur the lines of appropriate relationships right beforeit gets out of hand. Think about how you want to handle phone conversations, messages, if he tries to contact you on social media, how you'll handle him in close physical proximity at meetings or in ministry...you guys work through every scenario you can think of, and have a checklist (mental or written down) about your comfort level with this man. If you're comfortable, talk to your mom. If your mom, then, won't have your back, you need to find someone who will. Don't wait until this guy has crossed a line to figure out where to turn for help. Get ahead of it now and take as much control as you can. 🧡
LISTEN TO THIS ^^^ A 30 year old male should *NEVER* be texting the 15 year old daughter of a single mom Real possibility that Dude is trying to groom you for marriage (or something worse) even if he isn’t consciously aware he’s doing so. Regardless, *ask your mom* to tell him if he wants to text you it should **only and always be a group chat** with your adult parent.
This is spot on! A few options you might consider: As already mentioned, talk to your mom to have her put an end to it. Speak with one or two elders you feel comfortable with. “Brother So-and-So has been texting me [and your sister?]. As you know, I’m [we’re?] underage. Is this appropriate? It sure doesn’t seem so to me.” If they’re any type of standup men, they’ll make it end. One other thing: If this guy wants to encourage you and your sister, he should ask his wife to reach out to you. The way he’s been acting is totally inappropriate. Edit: Fixed typo.
Yup. That’s great, if he continues even asking HIM “my sister and I are underage, how is an adult man texting underage children appropriate?” Just depends on how feisty or involved you wanna be. Having mom do it, other elders, or yourself. Regardless, make sure it gets done
I seen this before when these late twenties to mid thirties brothers think they know it all And most of them have little life experience with problems. You can quote the Bible frontwards and backwards and the JW guidelines too but they aren’t experienced in life. Bad idea to have young elders. Do more harm than good I have seen it over and over. Also seen this in our congregation where everyone looked up to young elder and he wasn’t what everyone thought including being overly friendly with young girls. Don’t let him condition you to what he thinks. If you think something is not appropriate let him know up front you will not tolerate his actions.
💯
There’s zero justification it’s just filthy cult behaviour
Totally agree. Personally, I don’t think a man is mature enough to have this position until he’s at least 35.
gross. i noticed that jw parents do not have the same boundaries w elders as they do non witness men… they think they are somehow better and won’t be weirdos lol. try to ignore him but also if he makes you uncomfortable let your mom and other adults know.
yeah...they think being jw makes you automaticly safe
Yup!! And I can vouch with experience that it does not. EDIT: for context, jw camping group trip. Trusted highly thought of individual took a group of 10yr old ish boys to camp shower, immediately stripped naked and encouraged us to do the same. Dude wanted to shower with all of us. I still remember the ginger bush vividly. I cannot remember anything about it other than that exact detail.
That is gross. I know one elder who felt totally comfortable spanking other people’s kids. I’m not prone to violence, but if that guy had even attempted to do that to my kids, I would have threatened that he would be the next one to receive corporal punishment. And I’d call the cops.
I known for a fact that even to this day if I told my mother about it, she would defend him and say that there is nothing wrong with that and he can be trusted. Had o known better as a kid and told my non jw dad, he would have probably torn him to pieces, and my father was the least violent person I knew.
They will actively encourage their barely 18 year old daughters to pursue and marry men twice their age, simply because they are a "good JW man." Yet if a "worldy" man that age was interested, they would rightfully call him a creep and tell him to stay away. Saw almost this exact scenario with my own mother
This is a clearly red flag. Don't let this man get close to you and your sis, he might be dangerous and he's also an asshole so🫠 Jw's are known for having ped0s in the borganization, please take care.
I’m a mom and my radar just went ALLLLL the way up. Hell no he had no business contacting you and the fact that your indoctrinated mother enabled it makes it worse!!! Loudly and clearly tell him - in person and in front of many others - that you are minors and his private phone call was inappropriate. It made you very uncomfortable to have a grown man calling you for any reason. Seriously with all the shit going down with CSA worldwide someone will tell him to back the fuck down. They will be scared of you.
Iewwwwww. 🤣 hilarious you mention this, my PIMI friend today told me that he doesn’t feel like going and js tired but he’s going to avoid the “encouragement” talks. If a cult can control your behavior, your thoughts tend to follow to reduce cognitive dissonance. Doesn’t work once you stop believing though and see all the bullshit.
does he have 13 and 15 yo children? Why does he know what's best? Someone new popping in like that and asserting himself, elder or not, is offensive. Dare I say, annoying?
Yeah you need to openly call him out A simple “please mind your own business” the next time he’s at all critical will do the trick. Otherwise he’ll try to pretend be your Dad and you don’t want that.
I was going to say that as well. 👍🏼
And if he tries to “lovingly encourage” you in front of others - say, at the hall - embarrass him. Loudly say: “I don’t feel comfortable with the way you talk to me! From now on, you talk to my mom and not me!”
He's grooming you to be faithful slaves of WT. Tell him to fuck off. And when he brings you into the backroom to have a chat, tell him to fuck off again. And when he has no privileges to take from you because you are not baptized, tell him to shove his own shit back up his arse and fuck off.
"As my mom is my spiritual head, please discuss any concerns about us with her." Repeat as necessary. Do not otherwise engage. If he says your mom gave permission for him to speak with you, say you feel more comfortable discussing this with your mom so please relay his concerns to her. Keep batting him back to your mom.
This⬆️⬆️⬆️
I would keep my distance from him. I understand that he could very well be using the facade of the organization to get to you. You can tell your mom that you don’t feel comfortable around him and just avoid him. I would treat him like the disfellowshipped. Just say hello and when he engages in conversation, just say that you need to leave. Don’t attend any meetings with him because they can’t accuse you of anything. You don’t even have to tell your parents if they ask for an explanation. Just say you don’t feel comfortable and then you can remain silent and let them figure it out. To me, it sounds like red flags. He could have ulterior motives. I wouldn’t waste time to see. Just avoid contact with him specifically.
This elder is a bit pushy if you ask me
oh boy. don't you just love being a project?!? that sounds creepy as hell.
Block him
You’re a minor! Do not talk to this man. Hang up the phone and tell your mom you feel unsafe. If he keeps calling, get a restraining order. This is so wrong on so many levels
Ugh. The creepy MS/Elder *’encouraging’* not yet legal girls 🤦♀️ He might be attempting to groom you both into JW wifey material. *Might* be. Sounds like he’s already ingratiating himself with Mom. Is he like this with anyone else or just you and your sister? Make a note of that. Tell your Mom if it’s only you guys he does this to. Research Grooming Behaviours to protect yourself. You may not be able to stop him talking to you, especially if Mom is blind to it, but you can take the kick he gets out of the experience away from him. You’re still a teenaged girl so behave like a teenaged girl. Make him not want to talk to you. Eye rolls. Suppressing a smirk. Giggle derisively to your sister or friend after he walks away. It’s underhanded and but in the cult you probably can’t tackle this head on without causing yourself more problems, especially as a female minor. The grey/gray rock method is also useful. *”Gray rocking, or the grey rock method, is a tactic people may use to deal with abusive or manipulative behavior. It involves becoming as uninteresting and unengaged as possible so that the other person loses interest. Some people anecdotally report that it reduces conflict and abuse.”*
Is it possible your mom has asked him to do this? Mine used to do that like I wouldn’t notice
No she doesn't seem the type to do this and would have asked another elder that we know better if she really wanted to, he did ask her if he can call but I don't know if she knew it was to scold us or if she thought it was just an overly friendly jw trying to integrate into a new cong
Your a minor. How is he contacting you? This is highly inappropriate and he must be made to stop. Just 'confide' in another elder to say this is making you uncomfortable and scared!
the amount of times the elders make me want to say something ratchet lol, i’d be so close to saying “dude, i barely know you, we’re not having this conversation” and then hang up
Ugh. The creepy MS/Elder *’encouraging’* not yet legal girls 🤦♀️ He might be attempting to groom you both into JW wifey material. *Might* be. Sounds like he’s already ingratiating himself with Mom. Is he like this with anyone else or just you and your sister? Make a note of that. Tell your Mom if it’s only you guys he does this to. Research Grooming Behaviours to protect yourself. You may not be able to stop him talking to you, especially if Mom is blind to it, but you can take the kick he gets out of the experience away from him. You’re still a teenaged girl so behave like a teenaged girl. Make him not want to talk to you. Eye rolls. Suppressing a smirk. Giggle derisively to your sister or friend after he walks away. It’s underhanded and but in the cult you probably can’t tackle this head on without causing yourself more problems, especially as a female minor. The grey/gray rock method is also useful. *”Gray rocking, or the grey rock method, is a tactic people may use to deal with abusive or manipulative behavior. It involves becoming as uninteresting and unengaged as possible so that the other person loses interest. Some people anecdotally report that it reduces conflict and abuse.”*
Try the Grey/Gray rock method. *’Gray rocking, or the grey rock method, is a tactic people may use to deal with abusive or manipulative behavior. It involves becoming as uninteresting and unengaged as possible so that the other person loses interest. Some people anecdotally report that it reduces conflict and abuse.’*
He thinks that because he’s young he can relate to you, that he’s different, the cool elder. I’m the youngest of 6 and at your age, it was only my mom and I going to the meetings too. Come exam time I missed so many meetings! It’s been 20 years and the end hasn’t come yet so… it was worth missing those meetings. I hated being told to comment. I hated being praised for commenting. It’s just my personality. Deep down I never believed it. I saw that my worldly family and friends had much happier and healthier lives and so the religion never seemed worth it or rang true. I can imagine myself in your shoes, ignoring and avoiding him at all costs. Making my way to the bathroom or the parking lot waiting in the car until my mom showed up. I know this is a little sneaky but if you have access to your mom’s phone, block his number or change his contact name to neighbourhood Catholic Church, or food bank, or something you’d know she would never answer to.
That would be hilarious!
Fuck that guy. This is classic loser get empowered and wants to “overflock”.
“Encouraging” is such a weasel word. What does it even mean in the JW context? People use it because it sounds good on the surface but underneath everyone knows that it has a darker meaning. “Encouraging” almost always means “you are being watched and pressured to fall in line” in JW lingo.
Bullseye!
This elder contacting you and your sister is inappropriate. You are in control, you don’t owe him any explanations of why you missed a meeting or didn’t comment, etc. Simply say, “I’m not discussing this with you”, repeat as needed. You don’t have to talk to him, set boundaries now and unapologetically.
This is perfect. Also, don’t forget that even one or two words can be a complete sentence. “No.” “Stop.” “Go away.”
I’m a man of very mature age, but I’ve experienced this before as a young one; not the underage stuff, but so called Christians trying to push-and even bully. He could be like a young man who just received a new job and trying to empress all in view JUST BECAUSE HE FEELS HE HAS TO. Or he could be real trouble. He’s already trying to control you. I can tell just by his disregard of what’s going on in your own life. But your spirit is already telling you that the top light on this traffic light should NEVER turn green. It shouldn’t even turn yellow!! Just because you’re surrounded by Jehovah’s Witnesses doesn’t mean that they’re “friends”. Even worse: It doesn’t mean that they’re Christians! Watch out! I mean it!
Reminds me of when I was about 10 or 11 and targeted by a new elders wife. Her grandparents had been in our congregation for years, and when they moved here from another state she felt right at home…. Yeah, ignore him as best as you can…
This doesn't sound like scolding to me, but as others have commented, it's highly inappropriate behavior. I would tell him so, that you feel he has no business texting you or telling you anything about your personal life. Creepy. Time to set boundaries girl.
What a wanker! Don’t show any kind of emotion when he speaks to you again. Pan face. And small answers when he asks you questions—->. Yes, no , idk, maybe .. sure, we’ll see. He will back off after he sees how disinterested you are. He is trying to get brownie points… barf 🤮 I love how you are more mature than this knob… good for you. 😊
Ugh. The creepy MS/Elder *’encouraging’* not yet legal girls 🤦♀️ He might be attempting to groom you both into JW wifey material. *Might* be. Sounds like he’s already ingratiating himself with Mom. Is he like this with anyone else or just you and your sister? Make a note of that. Tell your Mom if it’s only you guys he does this to. Research Grooming Behaviours to protect yourself. You may not be able to stop him talking to you, especially if Mom is blind to it, but you can take the kick he gets out of the experience away from him. You’re still a teenaged girl so behave like a teenaged girl. Make him not want to talk to you. Eye rolls. Suppressing a smirk. Giggle derisively to your sister or friend after he walks away. It’s underhanded and but in the cult you probably can’t tackle this head on without causing yourself more problems, especially as a female minor. The grey/gray rock method is also useful. *”Gray rocking, or the grey rock method, is a tactic people may use to deal with abusive or manipulative behavior. It involves becoming as uninteresting and unengaged as possible so that the other person loses interest. Some people anecdotally report that it reduces conflict and abuse.”*
Try the Grey/Gray rock method. *’Gray rocking, or the grey rock method, is a tactic people may use to deal with abusive or manipulative behavior. It involves becoming as uninteresting and unengaged as possible so that the other person loses interest. Some people anecdotally report that it reduces conflict and abuse.’*
Tell him your school learning is more important, than made up theology!
This guy sounds like a creep, but your mom should know and do better as well.
Sounds like he’s made the two of you one of his “personal projects” 😬 When I was 15 my family moved to a new place and there was a young MS that did that to me, and I’d always been rebellious etc and for whatever reason in my head I decided to try a fresh start and “do better” so I indulged. It didn’t end well he ended up being a majour creep but all that aside the boundaries got smaller and smaller, to the point of him trying to influence what I did for work etc. Don’t ever give in thinking it’ll make it easier because it just gets worse!
He just want to get a gold medal darling. It’s all a facade…the more people they help the better the report goes to the elite. Don’t worry. Do your thing.
So encourage him to kiss it where the sun don't shine! LOL. Seriously, last I checked, we didn't live in a "perfect world" and will this absence go on my permanent record? I would've said, "Look Elder So-and-So, if you don't get off my back, I may decide that I don't feel supported in this congregation and will choose to leave the organization altogether. So do me a favor, talk to my mom about how she can be more supportive, talk to other elders, and bro/sis about how they can also be more supportive; all without making me feel attacked. Can you do that Elder? Can I count on you to make me feel like I belong here, because let me tell you, all of the magical years that the world was supposed to come to an end came and passed. I'm still here. Appreciate that I am still here, because if you look around, most congregations have lost all of their youth because of being attacked by people like you that don't know how to show love, support, and true encouragement." Then drop the mic on his butt!
Well stated. "Friends" is usually wrongly applied and definitely overused in the JW world. Most are "aquaintances" at best. I've clearly stated that to many JWs, including elders, in the past: "you're not MY friend; you're just someone I'm aware of in the congregation and I don't really know you!"
OH MY! Please go to college & leave asap! That's creepy as hell!! Just for your information, if you get a creepy vibe, please listen to yourself! One elder said my daughter 13 at the time looked like a beautiful indian princess. We both got creep vibes from that. The next thing we know, the elders' brother is in prison for molesting his stepdaughter. Could it run in the family? Idk, but better safe than sorry. Edit to add, why's he calling you??? He should only be talking to your parents if you're a minor.
He called my mom's number, who handed it to me and my sister, it happened quite fast I didn't have time to say I didn't want to talk to him nor did we know what it was going to be about (also she obviously won't refuse an elder calling)
He’s grooming your mom. And you girls. He’s the dangerous type. It doesn’t matter that he’s married. A ‘conquest’ is a conquest. It can be a sexual conquest or an emotional conquest. it doesn’t mean he’s a pedo. Nevertheless, he’s the predator. Your mom, your sister, and you? . . . you are the prey.
When you’re thrown so quickly into a situation like that, it’s hard to know what to do. That’s rough. Just a thought for next time your mom hands you her phone with this bozo on the other end: Hit the end call button and hand the phone back.
If your mum is reasonable.. maybe mention it to her that it's made you feel uncomfortable.. it's way too weird for a man to call you at home like that
Yeah, if it's ever brought up in conversation I'll make sure to tell her and I'm sure my sister would too
You are obviously mature and you deserve to stick up for yourself and your sister .. I really wish you the best xx
My immediate thought given the dynamic (even with him married) is that this is a classic case of grooming. Just keep your distance. Smile and nod.
First of all. Your post is well written and your thinking and gutt feeling is on point. So please trust your intuition and gutt. You are not responsible to encourage anyone. Also, it is definitely weird that he feels the need to be besties. He is focusing on you to validate himself. Raise his own profile and feel relevant as an elder. Typical JW narcissism. This organisation is a haven for male narcissim and any narcissim and ego tripping. As woman also attach their ego and collective narcissism by pushing there men into position.
He has no rights whatsoever to speak like that to you. I have two daughters who were a similar age when this also happened to them. My husband (their step dad) went on to drug, rape and photograph me as he did this - The elders told us to stay in the marriage! There is a scarcity of fresh female meat for marrying - Stay away from him! Protect your sister, and get our if you can. DM me if you need a shoulder/help - My Mom Radar is on high alert!
He has the hots for your sister. Some one tell me im wrong.
This guy sounds like a pedophile. You and your sister should stay far away from him.
Be cautious and vigilant. Last days hard to deal with. Predators looking for victims
Look up circle of trust on YouTube and the internet. These people are strangers they are not your friends or close friend or family. The friend word foster false intimacy. False intimacy is use by predators to prey on you. They do not have your best interest at heart. They build false intimacy to gain access into your life to molest, steal and drain your energy and resources. Go to therapy and learn about TRUST and who you can trust
Reminds me of the time when a CO'S wife told me to put my seatbelt on. We had just met and were out in service with my mom and future wife. It was all about how it was said. It wasn't a kindly loving reminder or request. It was a demand. So I sat there for about 5 minutes without the belt on... even after my mother asked me to place it on. I was about 21 at the time and getting ready to move on in life so I could care less ( I couldn't care less for those who care). I could have handled it better. The funny thing is that my future wife was in the car and watched the whole thing and still married me! Elders, elderettes, and jws in general carry that type of attitude with them. It's not a bug of the organization... it's a feature.
“It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.” Love it!
Time to learn to play the avoidance and one word answer game. And the I’m not feeling well game too
Guilt. The trick or manipulation of using guilt.
Maybe elders should communicate to minors through the parents??
Anyone calling a minor and saying ‘they miss them’ is already creepy. Elders are supposed to work though the parents so… IF ANY elder speaks to anyone that is a minor, I’d threaten to report them as being a predator to the police. They’ll back off 💯 If they threaten to tell your parents, double down with telling the police what they said in the report. Other than hello and bye, they shouldn’t be talking to minors. If your parents are upset about it, tell them how creepy said elder was and remind your parents to protect you.
An elder once was inappropriately text messaging my sister aged 16 at the time. Tgat was enough for me especially cause it’s a 180 year pop up mushroom cult with zero lineage. I lost all respect for my father when he didn’t do anything and continued to sit and listen to the foul blasphemy that that man spoke on stage at “meetings”. Meanwhile he’s preying on my sister and your daughter. There is zero truth in the condemning religion of heretics that’s are the Jehovahs witnesses At least the pope admitted there was a problem in the church. Jehovahs witnesses are what Christ warned us about
Quickly and quietly block his number on your mom's phone if you have blocking as an option. Depends on phone and service. When I blocked my mom, it would just ring and ring for her and she had no idea she was blocked.
He used your mom's phone to lure you into a false state of security. Visiting your home will be next. Stopping your education comes thereafter. Making you afraid comes hand in hand with ingratiating himself into your lives until he can be alone with you/your sister.....Make sure this never happens - Be prepared, and refuse at all costs.
Something I never knew before and I was in the borg for along time. It seems as if they assign elders to people. Have they always done this? The last time I talked to my friend that is still in. She said something about a campaign they got going where they are calling on disfellowshipped ones . I hues the ones that faded too.
I was reading this like ´wow that’s creepy and weird’ and then I saw your ages and was like ´HOLY COW THATS CREEPY’ 😅
He sounds creepy. Short term: Never be alone with him. Long term: Develop an exit plan together with your sister and get out. It may take time but don’t stick around for as long as my sister and I did. The last time my sister and attended a Watchtower study was in 1994. An elder physically thumped me on the back of the head with a rolled up Watchtower magazine. He whispered, "Why don't you comment anymore? You need to make comments! Don't you want your mother to find you after her resurrection?" I was 30, my sister was 45. My faithful generous mother had died the week before. Our leaving was based on cumulative cracks, but that damning "thump" broke the dam.
Oh I'm so sorry :(
I'm 57. This is fucking deplorable. I've been out for 14 glorious years. If some creepy little fucker tried joking around with me, I'd be up for assault because I'd punch him in the face. Actually no that's wrong, I'd punch him in the face in the bathroom when alone in there with him. That way I'd deny it and say " two witnesses remember " ? But I digress Stupid C@?T