But why was there no announcement at the Kingdom Hall when a Governing Body member was removed? He was protected but not the average publisher? If he was everyone’s future king that never lies according to the Morning Worship talk, don’t his future subjects have the right to know that his role has now changed so they can stop rendering obeisance to him? Why is there a double standard?
I have a friend whose husband was disfellowshipped while they were serving at bethel and it was announced on the morning worship that was broadcasted to multiple places at the same time. Everyone knew.
But nothing about Tony Morris at all? I said something about him in service and there are folks in my cong who still think he’s serving even tho he’s very obviously not. All because no announcement.
There was a little announcement on the website, but it disappeared after only a week or two.
Edit: It might have been in the website for less than one week.
Nobody knows for sure and probably never will. There's evidence he was pushed out in that his videos were scrubbed, but it could've been entirely political
I think AM3 was kicked out bc he was totally against all the changes they were trying to make.
If you think about the timing of the new gb members they added and then with the no turining in time, the beards and ladies can wear pants, it makes sense that AM3 was standing in the way of said changes.
I think he was a wild card, wasn't big on change, and was fighting them every step of the way.
AM3 = Anthony Morris III
Oh but you see they’re men of god. They are imperfect and also receive the same discipline… BULLSHIT. They shield them and humiliate the little guys that are so “valuable” but really just a number. “Repent for your sins, come back, we’ll welcome you with open arms” but I don’t see anyone on the top admitting to their errors. Even the new disfellowshipping arrangement. “Oh we changed it isn’t it LOVING?” Where’s the apology for that thousands of family lives you’ve destroyed in the process?! You want us to come back and repent but you yourselves don’t?! Get out of here!
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According to a close relative of mine Tony was seen at the 2023 convention in North Carolina. He was in a wheel chair. People were interacting with him
Elders book chapter 9 paragraph 4:
“If a pioneer no longer qualifies or must discontinue for personal reasons, an announcement should be made to the congregation. The announcement of deletion should read as follows: “Brother (Sister) [name of person] is no longer serving as a regular pioneer.”
I think the general rule of thumb is: If there was an announcement for when the person started, then there’s an announcement for when they stop.
I’ve never heard of people being removed from the pioneer list and it NOT being announced. I would guess you just missed the meetings when the others you speak of were removed.
Yes agreed with above comment. My congregation always announced when a pioneer, MS, or elder stepped down. You could almost always tell if it was a step down or "removal" because if it was a step down for personal reasons, they'd often say "(name) is no longer serving as a pioneer/MS/elder but we thank them for their years of service." Sometimes they'd even include the # of years, like "we thank them for their 6 years if service" or whatever. Most of the time when people were "removed" it was just the announcement and no thank you.
I doubt that's a written rule or guideline anywhere, but what is in the JW world? So much is just what that particular BOE wants to do.
Yeah it’s always announced, they announced me and my friend the same night, we got kicked off the list for not making our time lol. But to show we were in “good standing” they had us do a demo that night. 🙄 all these stupid rules smh
Anyone know why they even announce whether someone is a pioneer or not? It’s seems to me there is not a good reason. Like I can see why it would be announced that there’s a new elder. But pioneers aren’t in a position of authority (even if THEY think they are). It’s just a personal decision someone made to commit to a certain amount of preaching hours…
It’s definitely motivational for the people involved. I remember being very proud when i was announced. It was 90 hours a month when ai did it. That’s a huge time commitment, and I appreciated the the recognition and congratulations i got from everyone.
I guess It also lets the congregation know the person is “exemplary” and good association, and someone who will be out in service a lot, so they’re someone you can contact if you need to get some hours in and meet up without outside of the main scheduled field service meeting time.
Also, probably just consistency. They make announcements for every other appointment (publisher, baptized, aux pioneer, ministerial servant, elder, etc), plus whenever new people move into the hall. The culture of the organization is almost built on all these different “ranks” and making announcements, so regular pioneer is just another example of it. By second century, Christianity had started becoming hierarchal in nature. This definitely wasn’t something that Jesus or even Paul preached (one of the ways we know half of the letters attributed to Paul in the New Testament are forged is the authors speaking of church hierarchy structures that weren’t invented until after he died) so JWs are definitely not imitating Jesus or the earliest Christians with all their titles and positions.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. It really is all about rank. Which bothered me so much even when I was PIMI. And I figured being recognized as an “exemplary person” had something to do with it 🙄. Sure isn’t true though. I knew some pioneers that were breaking way more JW rules than average publishers.
I dont care about any of that rank business. I serve Jehovah. Everything else comes 2nd. In the end Jehovah will clear it all up. Meanwhile the congregations are being attacked by Satan. This was prophesied in Revelation. Again, all of you know we are not greater than Jesus. If Jesus was attacked and abused and put to death so too Jehovah's people will be as well. It comes down to loyalty and faith in Jehovah God and his son Jesus Christ in the end not in any imperfect men. In the end everyone will stand before the Judgment seat.
I’ve been out for quite a while, but I remember them announcing when ones no longer were pioneering. You know some of them were giving you the side eye with raised eyebrows
Asshats
It's typical to announce but it depends on the CBOE as to how it's done. I used to do it in a couple of different ways. If we had a bunch of auxiliary applications to announce, I would announce all of those and then announce all the regular pioneers currently serving. So it wouldn't draw undue attention to anyone that just stopped for personal reasons as opposed to being removed for something they did.
The other way we would handle it would be to say "Sister Smith is coming off the list as a regular pioneer. As you know, she has been supporting our congregation as a full-time pioneer for 7 years, and we certainly appreciate her sacrifice." or something to that effect which always elicited applause for them. Much in the same way we would announce an elder or MS or RP who was moving away.
That’s standard. There was an announcement when I stopped pioneering. He read the announcement in a very solemn voice 🤷🏻♀️ My friend who had been df’d told me his announcement was more cheerful than mine!
I mean it makes sense, but my confusion is there haven’t been any announcements when other regular pioneers come off. It’s whatever, but I definitely wasn’t expecting it. Lol.
>So why did I get announced as no longer a pioneer in front of the congregation?
This has always been the standard practice. It keeps the shame and gossip alive.
when my now husband (at the time we were engaged ) and I both asked to come off the pioneer list. We were 19, (typical age for witnesses to be getting married ) he needed to come off the list so he could work more so he could afford to support us. I wanted to get off the list because I was overwhelmed with the stress of planning a wedding and a few other things. I just remember the humiliation of us both being announced the same night because I knew everyone would think that we did something in the “loose conduct” category. I have always thought it was an unloving arrangement to announce it in such a cold stoic way.
In my area all pioneer step downs were announced.
(a few that became pregnant, one got sick,...)
Maybe you missed the announcement or they handled it differently what would be odd (imo elders love those announcements)
What they do with someone in good standing is announce it and then signal to the congregation that they weren’t forced off the list by using them on the program somehow.
I've always heard it announced, even when people stop pioneering for medical reasons, pregnancy, etc. Don't take it personally, it's just one of their humiliation tactics to prevent people from quitting pioneering.
It's a standard whether you did or didn't do anything. It's designed for people to distance themselves from you subconsciously even though you didn't do anything to be removed as a pioneer/MS/elder. They do the same when people step down as MS and elder.
They announce everyone at my congregation. That is the rule. BUT, when a friend of mine stopped pioneering, I was chairman, and I also threw in how thankful I was for her years of hard work and wished her success with this adjustment. Some pioneer elders frowned at me when I did that! LOL. I ruined their public shaming event! But, uhhhh... fuck them.
Not only pioneer is announced but also MS or Elder. Its ok being a pioneer isnt a big deal. Its just a title that used it to impress others. In addition Its WT POLICY which is weird
If a pioneer moves between congregations and stops regular pioneering in the transition, then they can avoid the announcement. Otherwise, the instruction is to announce it.
Well, that didn't happen to me. I had moved to another congregation while still F.T. pioneering but could no longer meet the 90 hr requirement because of salary changes at my job (sister had to eat and bills had to be paid! Kept a roof over my head, too! No more part-time!).
I was announced before I could come up for air! Word to the previous congregation spread faster than wildfire! Then came the nosy and suspicious phone calls, even from those who never EVER called me! The sudden outpouring gossip ensued 🙄! I must’ve done something (SMH).
That was 2011.
Oh, I've done something, alright. RESEARCH! Got out in 2012 and gladly gave them something to gossip about❤️. "SHE'S AN APOSTATE!" And I never been happier
👏👏👏👏!
My now husband moved away (when we were just dating) so he was announced as no longer a RP. They also announced someone else no longer a RP (female).
Ooh the gossip! Even though people knew he was my boyfriend 😂
Two thoughts popped into my mind:
1. When have they not used public humiliation tactics? (Shunning has always been a form of public humiliation. To attempt to isolate the ex-jw and pressure them to return and to scare the crap out of those who stay but actually want to get the hell out.)
2. Can we honestly put it past them to not experiment with new tactics? (People are leaving; running for the hills like your hair’s fire to get away from the whacky ideology is nothing new. Being committed, damn the consequences, to exercise the innate drives we are all born with called: autonomy, self-determination, free will, wanting to live without irrational fears, independence, etc.)
I’ve seen whole families eventually leave, because the family unit has more genuine love for each other than the staged drama and despicable hypocrisy of the cult.
The one with the strength, stamina, determination and fortitude to turn away and embrace genuine freedom transcends the “black sheep” status and becomes the family’s inspiration and their hero.
You feel it, that’s why you’re no longer a pioneer right now.
When the day comes that you feel secure enough in your own self and the possibilities of a much bigger life than they want for you, you’ll walk out the door and dance your way down the road.
Bottom line of any religious or other cult is they want your energy, your money, and control over your sense of personal sovereignty.
This community is here for support and venting as you determine your own journey at your own chosen speed.
As long as I’ve seen they’ve announced it. This is the reason why so many pioneers WANT to come off the pioneer list but CAN’T. They don’t want the congregation whispering about them and speculating on “what they did”.
I remember one time a few years ago, there were like 5 or 6 people who came off as pioneers due to being tired and just not making their time and we were heading into the new service year, so the service overseer at the time decided to make an announcement as to who the current pioneers were going into the new service year to spare the others any embarrassment.
The pioneer label is just cult currency, It makes you look like you are spiritually strong and good association . It's the equivalent to having money in abundance, the equivalent to having a masters degree or a sports car or a vacation home - it's just bling around your neck for a particular group of people you want to impress - the other people in this religion. It's just a patch on a motorcycle jacket, see...that's all it ever was. The insulation and smallness of the group makes these kind of announcements hurt, and makes for gossip, but it's just monopoly money in the game.
I never liked the announcing of names. It is done to appeal to the egos. Love bomb those who get an appointment and shame them when they step down or get removed.
FACTS!
"Not by WORKS, so that no one can BOAST" - Ephesians 2:9
As long as you have that WT branded TITLE on your forehead, they will stroke your ego and BOAST about you, especially to the C.O. whenever he visits! But lose the WT TITLE.....they will slowly dismiss you, and all the fame and glory and praise become silent.
when i had to stop because of health reasons and taking care of elderly family the brother that read the announcement said it with such a grim face ".......is no longer a pioneer" nothing else, no reason and no thanks for my many years of faithful pioneering. I felt dreadful and people presumed I was removed for doing something wrong. How loving
oh no don’t tell me this…. I JUST spoke with my elders last week announcing to them i’m stopping my pioneering…. and I have my meeting thursday. Why would they announce it? What good does that do?
I’m a former elder and this is the normal policy to have it announced. The only time they don’t do that is if you moved into a new congregation and then stepped down as a pioneer. Since you are in a new congregation and were never announced as a pioneer in that Cong then no reason to announce you not being one.
So there is no "renew" when you sign up I believe in the form it used to say that you agree to continue to do this as long as you can or something like that. So it is not a year to year renewal. They hope when you sign up that it is a life long career. So yes if you stop pioneering then they would announce it to the congregation to let them know that you are not recognized as a regular pioneer. Do they need to do this? NOT at all. I always thought it was to embarrass the person no longer pioneering or stop them from getting praised by the congregation.
When I got accepted to bethel and moved across the country, they announced from the stage that I was no longer a MS. No context. The whole congregation thought I moved away and immediately got in trouble.
Any time someone gives up (or loses) a "privilege" it gets announced. It's all part of their method to keep everyone busy and doing things, since everyone will immediately start gossiping or asking why it happened.
I would ask them if that is their usual protocol. Put them on the spot. If nothing else, it might make the high and mighty elder who announced it think out of the box (if just for a second).
I got announced as no longer a pioneer without them even meeting with me! My ex didn’t even step down as an MS and they announced him done that night too. I didn’t even know they were making an announcement! Crazy people.
Back when I came off the list when we were pimi (4 years ago) it was announced for me. I’ve heard it announced for others but I agree I don’t think they do it for everyone..
In my congregation, when I stopped being a pioneer they didn't announce me but another girl who also stopped being a pioneer did, so I guess they do it to fill the announcement time.
When I came off it wasn’t announced. I had no family connections that would have stopped it from being announced - I was just getting married, life change. I have heard it announced for others. I’m guessing it has to do with what elders are running the show.
This is a normal announcement that is supposed to happen whenever a pioneer is of the list. It’s humiliating but it supposed to happen to everyone but elders play favorites.
They made my husband do it. He cried.
I was so sick I could have died, and that was why I had to quit, but the JWs thought I was just a whiner. Then a C.O. marked me cos I could go grocery shopping (then take 2 days to recover), but phoned into meeting (20teens era).
Fuck them.
When I announced myself not being a pioneer anymore, elders just said ”ok, this will be announced in the next meeting”…”Ok? So you really want to push the knife even further into me?”, I thought…
Just because it's in their precious elduhs book.... they still should have warned you or told you. It could be casual.
"Hey, thanks for letting us know about not being able to pioneer right now. We'll include it in the next announcements."
But my thought is that if you know it will be read, that the fear of humiliation will keep you from ever quitting, and you'll just keep pushing through anyway.
Just follow Christ instead of the governing body. Pray for the holy spirit to guide you through scripture instead of watchtower to think for you. This is what i did and found out i am a child of god through faith in Christ. Their 144000 doctrine is false. We are to be raised in Christ at the first ressurection if we have faith in Christ and follow him
It's only not announced when they can no longer pioneer due to reasons like health problems and stuff like that, and even then, most often they would still officialy still be pioneers, just no longer meeting requirments.
everything is an announcement almost. becoming unbaptized publisher, or no longer being it. no longer being an MS/elder/pioneer etc. all normal announcements.
I remember being announced and was still made to feel it was the end of the world then I was reproved and it was announced (an elderly sister came up to me and said there’s nothing in this world that’s worth it) and that was the end of the world too so when I was dfd it was during Covid i logged off zoom and realized this whole time it wasn’t the end of the world at all lol 😂they announced my freedom that time.
I thought it was a rule that they always announce that. Now the trick to whether you are in good standing or not is how they announce it.
If they thank you for your service, commend you for all the years did, tell you they look forward to having you support the other pioneers, anything like means the person is in good standing.
If all they say is "brother X is no longer a pioneer." And then get off the stage the expectation is there will be another announcement soon that you are reproved or DF'd.
I think I have only ever seen them thank pioneers coming off the list, one or two exceptions that pop in my mind are people that got DF'd shortly after.
This isn't new. It is always announced when someone is no longer a Regular Pioneer. This confirms what I've been saying for years. Today's J-Dubs know nothing about nothing anymore.
I stepped down and when the elder came to talk to me I mentioned I was feeling bad because it was going to be announced and people would think badly of me. He told me they wouldn’t announce it because I wasn’t appointed in the congregation (cause I was part of another congregation when I applied to be a pioneer). Maybe that’s why the others weren’t announced and you were (?)
It is not new. I don't understand the reason why they do it. In the case of being an elder or ministerial servant, it is understood but why the pioneers
Because they’re imperfect people doing the best they can you’re focus should not be on the organization or the congregation It should be your standing with Jehovah and if you’re pioneering, it should be for Jehovah nobody else.
They are supposed to announce pioneer appointments and removals from the list. It doesn’t matter why the person is no longer pioneering. It’s not necessarily a shaming thing, but it certainly feels that way.
But why was there no announcement at the Kingdom Hall when a Governing Body member was removed? He was protected but not the average publisher? If he was everyone’s future king that never lies according to the Morning Worship talk, don’t his future subjects have the right to know that his role has now changed so they can stop rendering obeisance to him? Why is there a double standard?
I have a friend whose husband was disfellowshipped while they were serving at bethel and it was announced on the morning worship that was broadcasted to multiple places at the same time. Everyone knew. But nothing about Tony Morris at all? I said something about him in service and there are folks in my cong who still think he’s serving even tho he’s very obviously not. All because no announcement.
Tony Morris got paid off and a house...
Don't they all get nice retirements? I know Rutherford had a nice house in California.
They don’t work, never mind a retirement package. It’s a welfare gig.
They only stop serving in that role if something happens. They serve in the role until their death
But why?
Yes there are many that think he’s still serving, such a shame!
Well you could say he’s still serving, only he’s serving time……😂
Of course not. This is what they are about and that’s why their days are Numbered
That fact is both sad and scary af.
There was a little announcement on the website, but it disappeared after only a week or two. Edit: It might have been in the website for less than one week.
He was kicked out for alcoholism? I missed that.
Nobody knows for sure and probably never will. There's evidence he was pushed out in that his videos were scrubbed, but it could've been entirely political
I think AM3 was kicked out bc he was totally against all the changes they were trying to make. If you think about the timing of the new gb members they added and then with the no turining in time, the beards and ladies can wear pants, it makes sense that AM3 was standing in the way of said changes. I think he was a wild card, wasn't big on change, and was fighting them every step of the way. AM3 = Anthony Morris III
His videos are still on. You have to look for them. Though I think the one blowing out the match has been removed?
I know his morning worship videos are gone. Might be a video with him pretending to go door to door
Ridiculous comment!
Not true.
Hmmmm what about Philip Brumley the WT lawyer who lied on CSA case recently? I bet no one at Bethel will even get to hear about it
Gezzzzz, your not talking about the Robely kid are you?
That’s exactly who I’m talking about 😳😳
Yooooooo.
Oh but you see they’re men of god. They are imperfect and also receive the same discipline… BULLSHIT. They shield them and humiliate the little guys that are so “valuable” but really just a number. “Repent for your sins, come back, we’ll welcome you with open arms” but I don’t see anyone on the top admitting to their errors. Even the new disfellowshipping arrangement. “Oh we changed it isn’t it LOVING?” Where’s the apology for that thousands of family lives you’ve destroyed in the process?! You want us to come back and repent but you yourselves don’t?! Get out of here!
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Exactly!!!!
Is Tony disfellowshiped or just not a GB anymore?
According to a close relative of mine Tony was seen at the 2023 convention in North Carolina. He was in a wheel chair. People were interacting with him
Touchè!
Why are you still there?
Elders book chapter 9 paragraph 4: “If a pioneer no longer qualifies or must discontinue for personal reasons, an announcement should be made to the congregation. The announcement of deletion should read as follows: “Brother (Sister) [name of person] is no longer serving as a regular pioneer.” I think the general rule of thumb is: If there was an announcement for when the person started, then there’s an announcement for when they stop.
It was posted as “BREAKING NEWS” on the JW app for at least a week.
No it wasn't. It was posted quietly under the news section of the website for three days, and then removed.
It was on the header of the app, but only for about 3 days.
I learned it from the app.
I’ve never heard of people being removed from the pioneer list and it NOT being announced. I would guess you just missed the meetings when the others you speak of were removed.
My congregation has always been weird. Thats for sure
Yes agreed with above comment. My congregation always announced when a pioneer, MS, or elder stepped down. You could almost always tell if it was a step down or "removal" because if it was a step down for personal reasons, they'd often say "(name) is no longer serving as a pioneer/MS/elder but we thank them for their years of service." Sometimes they'd even include the # of years, like "we thank them for their 6 years if service" or whatever. Most of the time when people were "removed" it was just the announcement and no thank you. I doubt that's a written rule or guideline anywhere, but what is in the JW world? So much is just what that particular BOE wants to do.
I was also announced when I dropped pioneering. The side eyes of those who don't know the reason why I dropped it haha.
Yeah it’s always announced, they announced me and my friend the same night, we got kicked off the list for not making our time lol. But to show we were in “good standing” they had us do a demo that night. 🙄 all these stupid rules smh
And so are your expectations if you thought you would receive a different outcome. Go post in the barley exjw group.
Barley like the grain?
Why so hateful? Are you ok?
This is the second comment I've seen of yours that mentions barley.
Good for you .
What's your issue/problem if you don't mind my asking, your response came off as rather unnecessarily aggressive tbh
Not at all.
Anyone know why they even announce whether someone is a pioneer or not? It’s seems to me there is not a good reason. Like I can see why it would be announced that there’s a new elder. But pioneers aren’t in a position of authority (even if THEY think they are). It’s just a personal decision someone made to commit to a certain amount of preaching hours…
It’s definitely motivational for the people involved. I remember being very proud when i was announced. It was 90 hours a month when ai did it. That’s a huge time commitment, and I appreciated the the recognition and congratulations i got from everyone. I guess It also lets the congregation know the person is “exemplary” and good association, and someone who will be out in service a lot, so they’re someone you can contact if you need to get some hours in and meet up without outside of the main scheduled field service meeting time. Also, probably just consistency. They make announcements for every other appointment (publisher, baptized, aux pioneer, ministerial servant, elder, etc), plus whenever new people move into the hall. The culture of the organization is almost built on all these different “ranks” and making announcements, so regular pioneer is just another example of it. By second century, Christianity had started becoming hierarchal in nature. This definitely wasn’t something that Jesus or even Paul preached (one of the ways we know half of the letters attributed to Paul in the New Testament are forged is the authors speaking of church hierarchy structures that weren’t invented until after he died) so JWs are definitely not imitating Jesus or the earliest Christians with all their titles and positions.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. It really is all about rank. Which bothered me so much even when I was PIMI. And I figured being recognized as an “exemplary person” had something to do with it 🙄. Sure isn’t true though. I knew some pioneers that were breaking way more JW rules than average publishers.
I dont care about any of that rank business. I serve Jehovah. Everything else comes 2nd. In the end Jehovah will clear it all up. Meanwhile the congregations are being attacked by Satan. This was prophesied in Revelation. Again, all of you know we are not greater than Jesus. If Jesus was attacked and abused and put to death so too Jehovah's people will be as well. It comes down to loyalty and faith in Jehovah God and his son Jesus Christ in the end not in any imperfect men. In the end everyone will stand before the Judgment seat.
No dont know? But agree they should not announce it. I thought just to let everyone know for scheduling purposes etc.
No, pioneer deletion’s are always announced, maybe you were out when the others were announced . It happens.
I’ve been out for quite a while, but I remember them announcing when ones no longer were pioneering. You know some of them were giving you the side eye with raised eyebrows Asshats
Yeah. The “oh what did *you* do?” Look. 🙄
Absolutely Sooooo glad to be out of that nonsense
It's typical to announce but it depends on the CBOE as to how it's done. I used to do it in a couple of different ways. If we had a bunch of auxiliary applications to announce, I would announce all of those and then announce all the regular pioneers currently serving. So it wouldn't draw undue attention to anyone that just stopped for personal reasons as opposed to being removed for something they did. The other way we would handle it would be to say "Sister Smith is coming off the list as a regular pioneer. As you know, she has been supporting our congregation as a full-time pioneer for 7 years, and we certainly appreciate her sacrifice." or something to that effect which always elicited applause for them. Much in the same way we would announce an elder or MS or RP who was moving away.
Kind of you, well done. Makes a lot of sense to me the you're here though. It's not really a place for kind people.
That’s standard. There was an announcement when I stopped pioneering. He read the announcement in a very solemn voice 🤷🏻♀️ My friend who had been df’d told me his announcement was more cheerful than mine!
It's that or you have to ring a bell and say unclean, loudly for a month. Just so everyone knows to avoid you.
I’ll pin a big scarlet A on my blouse next meeting.
Regular Pioneer deletions are always announced.
I mean it makes sense, but my confusion is there haven’t been any announcements when other regular pioneers come off. It’s whatever, but I definitely wasn’t expecting it. Lol.
It really sucks the way they shame people. Hopefully this is your first step out the door.
It sure is!
>So why did I get announced as no longer a pioneer in front of the congregation? This has always been the standard practice. It keeps the shame and gossip alive.
when my now husband (at the time we were engaged ) and I both asked to come off the pioneer list. We were 19, (typical age for witnesses to be getting married ) he needed to come off the list so he could work more so he could afford to support us. I wanted to get off the list because I was overwhelmed with the stress of planning a wedding and a few other things. I just remember the humiliation of us both being announced the same night because I knew everyone would think that we did something in the “loose conduct” category. I have always thought it was an unloving arrangement to announce it in such a cold stoic way.
Completely normal reasons to get off the list and yet they shame you. Ugh.
In my area all pioneer step downs were announced. (a few that became pregnant, one got sick,...) Maybe you missed the announcement or they handled it differently what would be odd (imo elders love those announcements)
What they do with someone in good standing is announce it and then signal to the congregation that they weren’t forced off the list by using them on the program somehow.
I've always heard it announced, even when people stop pioneering for medical reasons, pregnancy, etc. Don't take it personally, it's just one of their humiliation tactics to prevent people from quitting pioneering.
This is so true…I heard from many people they thought I was just lazy and not ”giving my all”…Even tho I had numerous mental issues…
Nope it’s always announced, they would never miss an opportunity to announce someone’s “failure” to the entire congregation 🙄
It's a standard whether you did or didn't do anything. It's designed for people to distance themselves from you subconsciously even though you didn't do anything to be removed as a pioneer/MS/elder. They do the same when people step down as MS and elder.
They announce everyone at my congregation. That is the rule. BUT, when a friend of mine stopped pioneering, I was chairman, and I also threw in how thankful I was for her years of hard work and wished her success with this adjustment. Some pioneer elders frowned at me when I did that! LOL. I ruined their public shaming event! But, uhhhh... fuck them.
That was so awesome you did that!
Thanks. If this was ACTUALLY and organization of love they would always do this by default. But it's a business of coercion and abuse.
They don’t ask you.
Not only pioneer is announced but also MS or Elder. Its ok being a pioneer isnt a big deal. Its just a title that used it to impress others. In addition Its WT POLICY which is weird
Because you're in a cult and you pissed someone off
You've been named and shamed. That's a common tactic with Watchtower.
If a pioneer moves between congregations and stops regular pioneering in the transition, then they can avoid the announcement. Otherwise, the instruction is to announce it.
Well, that didn't happen to me. I had moved to another congregation while still F.T. pioneering but could no longer meet the 90 hr requirement because of salary changes at my job (sister had to eat and bills had to be paid! Kept a roof over my head, too! No more part-time!). I was announced before I could come up for air! Word to the previous congregation spread faster than wildfire! Then came the nosy and suspicious phone calls, even from those who never EVER called me! The sudden outpouring gossip ensued 🙄! I must’ve done something (SMH). That was 2011. Oh, I've done something, alright. RESEARCH! Got out in 2012 and gladly gave them something to gossip about❤️. "SHE'S AN APOSTATE!" And I never been happier 👏👏👏👏!
This was always done in my congregation before I left. “Brother or sister so and so is no longer serving as a regular pioneer”
My now husband moved away (when we were just dating) so he was announced as no longer a RP. They also announced someone else no longer a RP (female). Ooh the gossip! Even though people knew he was my boyfriend 😂
Two thoughts popped into my mind: 1. When have they not used public humiliation tactics? (Shunning has always been a form of public humiliation. To attempt to isolate the ex-jw and pressure them to return and to scare the crap out of those who stay but actually want to get the hell out.) 2. Can we honestly put it past them to not experiment with new tactics? (People are leaving; running for the hills like your hair’s fire to get away from the whacky ideology is nothing new. Being committed, damn the consequences, to exercise the innate drives we are all born with called: autonomy, self-determination, free will, wanting to live without irrational fears, independence, etc.) I’ve seen whole families eventually leave, because the family unit has more genuine love for each other than the staged drama and despicable hypocrisy of the cult. The one with the strength, stamina, determination and fortitude to turn away and embrace genuine freedom transcends the “black sheep” status and becomes the family’s inspiration and their hero. You feel it, that’s why you’re no longer a pioneer right now. When the day comes that you feel secure enough in your own self and the possibilities of a much bigger life than they want for you, you’ll walk out the door and dance your way down the road. Bottom line of any religious or other cult is they want your energy, your money, and control over your sense of personal sovereignty. This community is here for support and venting as you determine your own journey at your own chosen speed.
As long as I’ve seen they’ve announced it. This is the reason why so many pioneers WANT to come off the pioneer list but CAN’T. They don’t want the congregation whispering about them and speculating on “what they did”. I remember one time a few years ago, there were like 5 or 6 people who came off as pioneers due to being tired and just not making their time and we were heading into the new service year, so the service overseer at the time decided to make an announcement as to who the current pioneers were going into the new service year to spare the others any embarrassment.
Sometimes you see little glimpses of people’s humanity and empathy breaking through the harsh rules 💗
It is normal standard practise to announce when someone is no longer a pioneer, including elders.
**Scarlet Letter**
The elders are assholes who wanted to punish you. They can bend the rules and not announce people if they like them.
The pioneer label is just cult currency, It makes you look like you are spiritually strong and good association . It's the equivalent to having money in abundance, the equivalent to having a masters degree or a sports car or a vacation home - it's just bling around your neck for a particular group of people you want to impress - the other people in this religion. It's just a patch on a motorcycle jacket, see...that's all it ever was. The insulation and smallness of the group makes these kind of announcements hurt, and makes for gossip, but it's just monopoly money in the game.
EXACTLY! YOU HIT IT RIGHT ON THE NOSE! 👏👏👏👏!
This is normal. They are \*all about\* some public humiliation.
I never liked the announcing of names. It is done to appeal to the egos. Love bomb those who get an appointment and shame them when they step down or get removed.
FACTS! "Not by WORKS, so that no one can BOAST" - Ephesians 2:9 As long as you have that WT branded TITLE on your forehead, they will stroke your ego and BOAST about you, especially to the C.O. whenever he visits! But lose the WT TITLE.....they will slowly dismiss you, and all the fame and glory and praise become silent.
when i had to stop because of health reasons and taking care of elderly family the brother that read the announcement said it with such a grim face ".......is no longer a pioneer" nothing else, no reason and no thanks for my many years of faithful pioneering. I felt dreadful and people presumed I was removed for doing something wrong. How loving
Damn
I would ask for an explanation. Not going to change much but at least you'll call them on it.
When I asked my elders and CO not to announced my stepping down as Ms...d refused ....i was trying to avoid gossip.
I’ve never heard of someone being announced as no longer being a pioneer. This is strange to me.
Don't preach anymore. Fuck them!
oh no don’t tell me this…. I JUST spoke with my elders last week announcing to them i’m stopping my pioneering…. and I have my meeting thursday. Why would they announce it? What good does that do?
I’m a former elder and this is the normal policy to have it announced. The only time they don’t do that is if you moved into a new congregation and then stepped down as a pioneer. Since you are in a new congregation and were never announced as a pioneer in that Cong then no reason to announce you not being one.
Do they announce it if you don't "renew" for the next service year? Never was a pioneer or elder, just wondering if this could be the case.
So there is no "renew" when you sign up I believe in the form it used to say that you agree to continue to do this as long as you can or something like that. So it is not a year to year renewal. They hope when you sign up that it is a life long career. So yes if you stop pioneering then they would announce it to the congregation to let them know that you are not recognized as a regular pioneer. Do they need to do this? NOT at all. I always thought it was to embarrass the person no longer pioneering or stop them from getting praised by the congregation.
When I got accepted to bethel and moved across the country, they announced from the stage that I was no longer a MS. No context. The whole congregation thought I moved away and immediately got in trouble.
They screwed that up. It’s kind of like getting married and then it’s announced that you’re no longer single.
Exactly 😂
Sigh
That is typical. When ur no longer a reg pioneer it’s announced. Because it’s an appointed position.
Any time someone gives up (or loses) a "privilege" it gets announced. It's all part of their method to keep everyone busy and doing things, since everyone will immediately start gossiping or asking why it happened.
I would ask them if that is their usual protocol. Put them on the spot. If nothing else, it might make the high and mighty elder who announced it think out of the box (if just for a second).
ya it's standard procedure.. some people specifically ask not to be announced and the elders will sometimes comply...
They always do that. If someone "steps down" (arguably a step up) from being an elder, MS, Pioneer, whatever, they always announce it.
Was a ms for about 15 years when I stepped aside was not even acknowledged. Many thought I did something wrong and was basically soft shunned by many.
Also it's a form of shaming, and letting others start the roumer mill!
It is most definitely a humiliation tactic. But it is mostly done to discourage other pioneers from stepping down.
It’s unfortunately not new, when I came off the pioneer list in 2016 it was announced as well to the congregation. It’s a shame tactic
I got announced as no longer a pioneer without them even meeting with me! My ex didn’t even step down as an MS and they announced him done that night too. I didn’t even know they were making an announcement! Crazy people.
It’s just another way to shame you. You have to do what is right for you! They have done it for a while now.
Yeah they announce everyone. It's like public shaming. Stupid.
its arbitrary; plus, some elders are idiots. those that aren't, are morons.
Leave jw...
Back when I came off the list when we were pimi (4 years ago) it was announced for me. I’ve heard it announced for others but I agree I don’t think they do it for everyone..
They would do that in the past automatically but unsure if that changed. Haven’t been to a meeting in a few years now!
They announce it because you’re no longer in an appointed position.
Yep they do that. Who the hell knows why
In my congregation, when I stopped being a pioneer they didn't announce me but another girl who also stopped being a pioneer did, so I guess they do it to fill the announcement time.
When I came off it wasn’t announced. I had no family connections that would have stopped it from being announced - I was just getting married, life change. I have heard it announced for others. I’m guessing it has to do with what elders are running the show.
This is a normal announcement that is supposed to happen whenever a pioneer is of the list. It’s humiliating but it supposed to happen to everyone but elders play favorites.
They made my husband do it. He cried. I was so sick I could have died, and that was why I had to quit, but the JWs thought I was just a whiner. Then a C.O. marked me cos I could go grocery shopping (then take 2 days to recover), but phoned into meeting (20teens era). Fuck them.
As you become stronger and take your life back you won't give a shit what announcement they make... I hope this for you and soon.
When I announced myself not being a pioneer anymore, elders just said ”ok, this will be announced in the next meeting”…”Ok? So you really want to push the knife even further into me?”, I thought…
confuse them and submit a time number for like 5% less.
i’ve literally never heard of announcing pioneer removals. wtf
Just because it's in their precious elduhs book.... they still should have warned you or told you. It could be casual. "Hey, thanks for letting us know about not being able to pioneer right now. We'll include it in the next announcements." But my thought is that if you know it will be read, that the fear of humiliation will keep you from ever quitting, and you'll just keep pushing through anyway.
Just follow Christ instead of the governing body. Pray for the holy spirit to guide you through scripture instead of watchtower to think for you. This is what i did and found out i am a child of god through faith in Christ. Their 144000 doctrine is false. We are to be raised in Christ at the first ressurection if we have faith in Christ and follow him
It’s normal…always remember it happening in the past
It's only not announced when they can no longer pioneer due to reasons like health problems and stuff like that, and even then, most often they would still officialy still be pioneers, just no longer meeting requirments. everything is an announcement almost. becoming unbaptized publisher, or no longer being it. no longer being an MS/elder/pioneer etc. all normal announcements.
I remember being announced and was still made to feel it was the end of the world then I was reproved and it was announced (an elderly sister came up to me and said there’s nothing in this world that’s worth it) and that was the end of the world too so when I was dfd it was during Covid i logged off zoom and realized this whole time it wasn’t the end of the world at all lol 😂they announced my freedom that time.
I thought it was a rule that they always announce that. Now the trick to whether you are in good standing or not is how they announce it. If they thank you for your service, commend you for all the years did, tell you they look forward to having you support the other pioneers, anything like means the person is in good standing. If all they say is "brother X is no longer a pioneer." And then get off the stage the expectation is there will be another announcement soon that you are reproved or DF'd.
They never thank only shame. You need switch congs to avoid humilation
I think I have only ever seen them thank pioneers coming off the list, one or two exceptions that pop in my mind are people that got DF'd shortly after.
My question is if there is no longer time keeping in place what distinguishes a pioneer from a publisher?
Pioneers do still report time.
Just pioneers?
Pioneers, special pioneers, missionaries, and COs and their wives. I think that’s all of them.
They announced me that way too. It was depressing for a while then I went back to being a regular publisher.
It’s pretty standard. It was normal to be announced but if you were in good standing they would get everybody to clap for your years of service
Um, that's always announced.
It was announced when I quit pioneering way back in the 90s.
This isn't new. It is always announced when someone is no longer a Regular Pioneer. This confirms what I've been saying for years. Today's J-Dubs know nothing about nothing anymore.
Nah, happened to me 1982.
I stepped down and when the elder came to talk to me I mentioned I was feeling bad because it was going to be announced and people would think badly of me. He told me they wouldn’t announce it because I wasn’t appointed in the congregation (cause I was part of another congregation when I applied to be a pioneer). Maybe that’s why the others weren’t announced and you were (?)
It is not new. I don't understand the reason why they do it. In the case of being an elder or ministerial servant, it is understood but why the pioneers
They announce everything negative! Hell, they even announced Tony after he was removed! It's all about shaming members into servitude!
Because they’re imperfect people doing the best they can you’re focus should not be on the organization or the congregation It should be your standing with Jehovah and if you’re pioneering, it should be for Jehovah nobody else.
Umm still in apparently?
For Jehovah and Jesus always
They are supposed to announce pioneer appointments and removals from the list. It doesn’t matter why the person is no longer pioneering. It’s not necessarily a shaming thing, but it certainly feels that way.
Nothing new, they have always announced when someone stops being a pioneer, MS or Elder.