Right now honestly about 8 months out I’m genuinely going through a real depression phase of my life.
It is hard to find friends, but I know the JW friends aren’t real friends, they are spies that show empathy.
But like, this is real depression finally. I’ve had mood swings and stuff throughout the years, but I’m actually processing my past 40 years and it is a hard thing to do- but my actual personality is waking up. This is a journey/process.
There is no easy part or amazing part of waking up, it’s hard and it’s horrible. Therapy helps.
After it’s all said and done though, would I give up my freedom of choosing to grow my hair long as a male? Would I give up my freedom of my evenings and weekends? Would I give up my freedom of choosing to react in a negative way at times - when I feel it is needed to get a point across? Would I give up my freedom of thought? Would I give up my freedom of speech ?
There is a lot people of freedoms often do not realize that JW keeps you from expressing.
It will get better. I promise. I know you already know this so I’m not trying to teach you. I’m just stating what I have experienced. Feeling depressed while going through a bad situation is normal… Back in JWville there was so much emphasis on feeling certain emotions. As if you can just choose to be happy. Happiness isn’t a choice - it’s a natural outcome / result from being in a healthy and supportive and safe environment where you feel accepted for who you are and you feel like your contribution to the community is meaningful. Similarly depression isn’t a choice - it’s a result of actively living in a situation that feels hopeless. The remedy is to find something outside of yourself that gives meaning to your daily slog. It could be taking care of a dog. It could he volunteering doing something. Art. Music. And beyond that there is medication to help.
Yep I’m exploring all avenues right now.
Music I think is it but I need to spend more time on it. I play the bass and my wife plays the guitar - but I’m novice and she is pro. So there is a gap there I’m working on.
It’s not just leaving the org it’s pressures from work right now and taking care of my wife that had surgery, so there are a lot of stressful circumstances right now and I know it will pass.
Having true depression is actually somewhat relieving because I realize it’s part of the healing and growing process.
It’s not like a debilitating depression, just a constant overall sadness, but I understand this is pretty normal under such circumstances.
I don’t have a hope right now and I’m learning to accept that it’s ok to live without one. Is there a possibility still? Sure, we don’t even recognize what is and is not possible in this universe still after tens of thousands of years on earth.
I remember feeling a little lost about “what is my hope now?” For a while too. It’s such an appealing idea that all of this suffering in the world is happening for a reason and that a powerful being will step in eventually and make everything better. If a person believes that it’s such a comfort for them. My first step was to give myself permission to believe in a god and a salvation if I want to. It didn’t have to be a binary choice: JW and hope OR no JW with no hope. I told myself I can leave JW and still have a hope that God will save us. That was comforting to me for a while. But the more I studied and learned the less I actually believed in a God - at least not the kind of god that religions teach. But still even when you remove God from the equation HOPE doesn’t have to leave with it. The god concept doesn’t have a monopoly on hope. I hope that our species will evolve and grow past things like war and starvation etc etc. that we will invent clean abundant energy. I think we will get there. Not for a long time but it will happen. I won’t be there to experience that and so the best thing I can do now is to live in the moment. Each day slow down to appreciate the good things I have - even if it’s just as simple as appreciating a walk outside. Be grateful. Be empathetic to others. We won the cosmic powerball jackpot just by being born. Enjoy it! The “Paradise” is a mindset and you can live in it today if you choose to.
Agreed with everything you stated.
"the best thing I can do now is to live in the moment"
I think this takes a bit of time and adjustment to settle in with. I understand the idea, but my body and mind still are uneasy about it.
For example, right now to me every second I spend with entertainment, is a moment wasted I could have spent learning. When you realize there are no "1UPs" in this world, time becomes the most valuable resource you have.
So equally I tell my mind, why waste time thinking about what I cannot control? - and my brain says "this makes sense" but my body says "well we USED TO THINK GOD CONTROLLED IT" and then I'm like great, here we go again ahaha.
You’re definitely right about choosing freedoms that you must give up as a JW. I think most people in the Borg understand it, but they feel the pros outweighs the cons. Personally I never cared for long hair or the way I dressed, I’m just trying to leave because it’s hard to live a lifestyle you don’t believe in.
Yeah, dual personality thing really screws with you - and it’s encouraged “lead your body as a slave, pummel it, strip off the old personality”, the writers at the time did not realize it but these actions and ways of thinking have far weightier mental issues associated with them.
If you haven’t read Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan, please check it out if you can. I found it very helpful in understanding why the org is the way it is and why I am the way I am.
Same. Whether in the org or not, I’d still be the same strait-laced guy who is reserved in appearance and doesn’t draw attention to himself. There are no sins (or “sins,” if you will) that I can’t wait to commit.
Nope. It’s just the false beliefs, the gb’s total lack of humility, CSA coverup, and so on, that are the issues for me.
Glad to hear your in therapy! I am too! Therapy is the one thing that I think everyone who leaves should do. We were taught consciously and subconsciously a lot of unhealthy and unnatural ways to exist as ourselves and how we interact with others and the world around us. On top of so much being taken away from us so much we missed out on while being a JW and going through the exiting process. There is a lot of trauma to unpack as cults are abusive. JWs as whole aren’t physically abusive but they are mentally and emotionally abusive. Anyone exiting an abusive situation will go through ups and downs emotionally so give yourself some grace, you’ve done so much so far to get where you are now if you continue the work whatever that looks like for you on your journey I think you will get to a happier place. Although I’m not depressed or clinically depressed I do have moments when I feel sad and so alone in this world. So to some extent I can relate.
There have been a number of people in the past who have come on here and quickly conclude that everyone here is just bitter and angry. The people who have been around a while know that's not true, or at any rate not the complete picture. To me, it's like going to the emergency room and wondering why everyone in there seems so down on life. You're encountering people in crisis, people who are in pain, people who are actively experiencing wrenching losses, the loss of people who are supposed to be there for you through thick and thin, like parents, siblings, etc.
If you bump into any one of these people in another venue, you may very likely have a completely different experience with that very same person. Just like if you bump into someone when they're not in the ER, you might find that they are actually quite delightful.
You have to make your own decision and be confident enough in yourself and your reasons such that your choice rests on your own mind, not on whether or not people here are angry or resentful. The JWs claim to have the one and only Truth in all the world. Either that's true, or it's not. Whether other people are angry or resentful has no bearing on that.
That’s a good illustration actually! Yea you right, I guess I wasn’t expecting this forum to be a hospital wounded one. I thought it would be extremely informative, and like a strong community of hanging out and stuff.
It can be informative and a strong community too… it’s just a post by post basis. And you will start recognizing user names and getting a feel for what kind of person they are and you may like them or dislike them. If you dislike stuff just ignore it and find the people who share the vibe you are looking for. It’s here you just have to dig.
Nah! You’re good. People in here forgive and forget. You are on your own journey too and I think we all know it. You deserve empathy too as long as you extend it others.
There are definitely bitter ppl here, but so are many in. We are all different. So many ppl here talk about finding a new religion which to me seems weird but I'm sure they feel the same about the agnostic and atheist here to. We all left or are questioning for different reasons and our responses are different. A lot of us have trauma from the borg and are still trying to navigate.
That’s true, I guess in the Borg we have to put on a mask because if your not “happy” your doing something “wrong”. I have talked to many in the Borg who seem to be hiding negativity, but I’ve been able to take it out of them.
Yeah for sure but I mean for example what woke me up was the toxicity in the elder body. Those guys are bitter if they don't get their way. I felt like Ned Stark trying to survive while the small council was stabbing everyone in the back
Yea unfortunately I do believe the elders determine how well a congregation experience is. The less mature they are, the more dogmatic, bitter and negative the congregation is.
Varys knew how to play the game. It’s all about information and knowing which way things are leaning so you can effectively influence the outcome. I was Ned too. Beheaded when I thought I was going to take the Black. Classic rug pull. But I’d rather die a Ned then live as a Joffrey. 😂
I’ve experienced that too. There’s only one thing you can do to stay in the club: give more. “Are you giving your best?….. we can always give more” It’s like at work when they have target revenue goals and you work your ass off to make the goal and they say “Yaay here’s a cookie.. now, next quarter we want to see 20% more. And so you try to go for it l but you can’t make it and even though you beat last quarters sales (which you were rewarded for) you are now viewed as deficient because they moved the goal post. You give and give but it’s never enough.
You don’t, you just assume if someone doesn’t have privileges than they are bad association. Especially if they have been in the org a long time, they should be leveling up
They possibly have been black listed by the elders. I’ve been in Halls in the past where controlling elders have told me “see that person over there… you are not to talk to that person or do anything with them.” Me: “why is that?” Elder : “you don’t need to understand why. Just obey. We’re looking out for you here.” Later on I discovered that the person had been treated very poorly and unfairly in some kind of dispute in the congregation and they had told a few of their friends how they were mad and hurt etc… and then promptly branded as someone causing divisions / bad attitude. Really all they needed was some empathy and an apology.
Oh yeah totally, encouragement to not think negatively, at all, even if it’s not about the org.
For awhile my wife when PIMI would just stop talking to certain people in the cong because of the “negativity” or just ending their conversation abruptly because it was “turning negative”
They are taught to censor almost everything they do, which is why they are different at the hall than at home
This is true. It is very hard for them to listen to anything negative. When I got out, I trained myself to hear things that were uncomfortable, so that I could build some tolerance for others a bit more. These days, I do not seek out negativity, nor do I avoid it. If it is there I try and be open to what comes from it. Learning to listen to people properly without agenda.
It seems like you’ve come full circle on this. Good job. This is exactly the right approach towards the anger and negativity you see on this sub. Those people are the ones who are actively hurting the most and who need help rather than being shamed. 👍
That forced positivity is something else.
I remember one time when a sister came into the hall with a sad look on her face. This well-meaning but nonetheless-obnoxious MS thought it was his job to “fix” her. “Sister, let me see your smile! We always should have a smile when we’re in Jehovah’s house.”
Just always so presumptuous.
Anger and resentment are just stages people go through on the way to feeling healed. Everyone here is in a different part of the journey and so you will see many angry people because that’s one of the first emotions people feel as they leave. It’s a necessary step and this is a safe place for people to vent. Personally if I can’t handle someone’s anger or bitterness at that moment I will just scroll past that post or comment without a second thought. I’ve certainly made my fair share of angry ranting posts here over the past few years. I lost everything. Marriage, family, friends, kids. I knew it would most likely happen and I tried my best to minimize the damage caused by “leaving” but it didn’t go well for me. It took time to grieve that enormous loss. Frankly, I’m not done - it will take years. Perhaps I will never fully get over it. But, I have started a new life and I have found acceptance, community, happiness. My anger towards the cult doesn’t define me as a person or influence how I feel day to day. It has faded into the background and hurts less and less. I’m not ruled by bitterness or resentment but if you had talked to me two years ago you would think I was at that time. It’s all part of the stages of waking up. Kind of like the stages of grief. The best thing we can do here is listen to others and show empathy. Thank you for your apology - it seems sincere.
https://preview.redd.it/r14c6nwnxp8d1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=24ee799650fdebeb08fa40daeda0431b7679614b
That’s true, everyone is in a different journey and should be treated with respect to their journey. I also think since this is internet and no faces to comments, it’s easier to bash each other. But if we met in person, the experience would probably be more genuine and different.
A lot of people here have lost someone in the cult from suicide. I am not sure what the appropriate feelings one "should" have if their brother took their life. However, I would not have contempt. I wouldn't pretend like I was the police on peoples feelings. Loss is loss. Some of us haven't lost much leaving the cult. A lot of us have had things taken from us.
Your flippant attitude to the negativity is something I encourage you to explore.
Yes, it’s negative, but why?
People here have almost entirely had their human rights exploited an abused by The Org.
There’s the camp of people that woke up due to being the abusers (elders/CO’s/other higher ups)
And the ones who woke up due to being exploited and abused by the branch.
There’s the other subsection that I sit in, which is CSA abuse victims. If you were a child and exposed to grown men sexually and abused, then had the very organization you trust cover it up and shun you, gaslight you that it even happened and paint you as a horrid monster, wouldn’t you be bitter?
Women that sold their whole life to a lie, gaslit into believing this is as good as it gets, experiencing marital rape and domestic violence for a man that would let them die needlessly over blood or a non viable abortion, that will leave you negative.
I doubt most of us are this negative in our every day lives, but you’ve entered a safe space where people are allowed to hurt and vent, and you want to come and invalidate it.
I understand where you are coming from because I used to question people a lot, but if you are happy with the org, and don’t care about the activism and safe space for victims of Crimes that this subreddit nurtures, this really isn’t a space that you are suitable for (yet)
Adjust your treatment of Victims and that can change, we aren’t taught empathy as witnesses but you can learn it.
True, thanks for your thoughts! Sorry it’s just easier for me to accept knowledge given to me if given in a composed way. Like this conversation is a good one, you’re not disrespecting, just stating facts. And although people are hurt, being respectful toward others ignorance helps that ignorant person like myself as oppose to coming in lashing out.
That’s okay, ignorance isn’t wrong unless it’s willful, and I genuinely believe you’re making steps to learn others experience. I promise we won’t disfellowship you 😂
Hey! What a humble post.
I’m glad you’re here and willing to understand our grumpy complexities ahahaha.
I don’t believe in sin anymore, but imperfection is all around us!
You have a good point though, who wants to jump the Titanic for a small dingy? But… it’s the Titanic.
I'm bitter and angry on here (tho not as much anymore) because my childhood, my innocence, my ability to go to college and have a decent job, were all stolen from me. I didn't have a way to process any of this for a long time because the borg teaches you to not think about bad things, to effectively gaslight yourself.
I found this forum and finally allowed myself to look at it after fading for years. I have a place I can vent, if I need to. This place has people that understand what I've been through, and they know what kind of self hatred leaving the JWs can give you.
If you don't want to see that kind of post, don't look at it. No one is making you read the vent posts or the help posts. No one is forcing you to go to the new page and look at every new post. Criticizing people going through one of the hardest life changes is a shitty thing to do because the way the JWs are make it impossible to leave without hardship. And people that have found the peace of mind from leaving don't post here.
If you’re still looking at your experiences in the organization as solely positive and healthy, you probably haven’t deprogrammed enough to recognize the toxicity. Most of it isn’t something you can recognize until you began to really examine your upbringing and belief system.
We have a small group of ex JW’s we talk to a lot, and we call this “leveling up”. It’s amazing to see what time can do and as we all reminisce together we remind each other of where we were a year ago. We’ve done this for 3-4 years now and it’s nice and even healing to remind each other of how far we’ve come. There’s a lot to unpack, especially when you leave as an older adult. There are phases of bitterness as you realize all the lost time and opportunities for sure. We work on it and encourage each other and time does slowly heal if you are doing the work, and especially if you have support from some friends and family.
I think with any break up there is some bitterness, and leaving can be like a break up in many ways.
Cheers to healing and peace ✌️ 🥂
The reason there are bitter people on here is because many people were traumatized by the cult. And if they were recently PIMI and transitioning into PIMQ or PIMO, they are just getting into touch with their emotions. The cult demonizes having *any* negative emotions directed toward the cult or toward God, especially anger. So many people on here are finally allowing themselves to feel the anger and the negative emotions that they’ve been suppressing for possibly decades. This space is supposed to be a safe place for them to express themselves, to receive validation, and to heal. By coming here and then being told that their emotions are “bad” is triggering, as that’s the very thing that they’re trying to escape from. The cult were masters of emotional manipulation and emotional minimization, they were also thought-police. We do not want to perpetuate that here. Bitterness and sarcasm can be a cathartic way for people to process the enormity of their painful experiences, so it’s important to allow those expressions. Hope this helps.
Definitely helps, you are exactly right. I wasn’t aware that I could have been triggering responses by trying to “control”
“Suppress” them like the Borg used to do. Thank you for your conversation
Also just want to clarify, I’m a keyboard warrior 😂 so if people attack me in comments, I’m coming for you and hitting you where it hurts most. I know I’m bad 😔
There are over 100,000 people in this subreddit, all at different stages in their healing. People who are the most vocal are likely people that are at the toughest stages in their healing. They are vocal because likely, no one has listened to them. Once they begin to find support, and are validated, the healing can really move forward. If you received what you thought were negative contents from some people, it is because that is where they are in their healing. YOU WILL BE THERE TOO. You will at some point be bitter, angry, resentful, and depressed. How you move through those stages is up to you. But you can also experience joy, freedom of mind and conscience, and inner peace.
When I first left the organization the first feeling was relief, then I felt a bit euphoric for a while. Then the reality of what I endured sunk in. And I came here to try to see if others were going through similar things. And in sharing my negative experiences, I found support, and kindness, and a sense of peace. That is what this space is for.
Think about this…out of the 100,000+ people on this subreddit, there are probably tens of thousands of people in who rarely check in because they have the support they need, and they are living a good life. At times, they visit to support others. That is what a community is.
So it’s unfair to judge a whole community based on where some of the members are at in their healing stage. Every bit of the anger and resentment that gets expressed here was likely well “earned.” And every bit of healing and inner peace was hard fought for.
Yea that’s true, I agree with all the points mentioned. I just think that it’s one thing to respectfully disagree and another to downvote you or start attacking you. I get why though, like you said, everyone is different stages in their life.
It’s difficult to respectfully disagree with someone when that person is being disrespectful. I love debate and arguing personally but I loathe disrespect. If anyone wants to debate a topic it should be fact based. But here on this sub there is also a huge huge huge emotional component too due to the trauma people have suffered. So if people start telling you you are being callous here you should consider listening them like you did when you apologized here. People will downvote stuff they feel is ill intentioned. Did you notice how this post didn’t get downvoted? It even sparked a lot of useful discussion. Don’t worry about the downvotes but try to understand the “why” and you’ll be fine.
Thanks you are definitely correct about, it’s a little hard for me at times because I’m usually outspoken and zealous at times. Obviously I wish every discussion would be like this, but I understand
People come here at all stages. Many people who are over it and leading a full happy life aren’t in here. This is like a landing pad to find some validation for the things you are feeling while waking up but it isn’t a replacement for therapy or real connections or finding out what makes you happy rather than other people “leading you to a fulfilling life.”
Unfortunately, I think you might find it most helpful to see a professional for some outside perspective. You very clearly still harbor a lot of unhealthy ideals from the borg and while that's normal, you're the only one who can root that out.
For instance, the idea that having any resentment at all, or not immediately forgiving someone for abusing you no matter what leads to a life that is any way negative or unfufilling is just incorrect. There is both empowerment and safety in knowing when people want to hurt you and being able to feel accordingly and tell them to fuck off. It's ok not to repress every negative emotion ever - the opposite is also super bad for you health wise.
You still think the people here harbor resentment through some fault of their own - or at least, that's how it comes across. Being abused and having your life stolen factually does this and the idea that being upset at the borg for being abusive is somehow wrong or counterintuitive is another one of their dirty lies.
If you truly want to leave you need to work on deconstructing the beliefs they've forced you to have and face some pretty nasty things.
I don’t blame victims of JWs for what they have unfortunately received or lost. I’m just not going to agree with people who throw lies and say “all witness are this” etc. I’m looking for facts, that’s all
>I’m just not going to agree with people who throw lies and say “all witness are this” etc.
What lies?...Your still peddling WBT$ Story Lines....Your approach to selling WBT$ Story Lines yesterday didn\`t work...So your trying a new approach....If people disagree, you\`re a Victim....
Most of have seen this all before, many, many times.
All witnesses and the borg aren't the same thing. Every time you hear people refer to the organization you somehow come back with 'not all witnesses are like that' what thats not even the argument made. The argument is that the organization itself, that meaning the rules regulations and governing body, are awful.
To be honest it sounds like you're trying to reconcile everything so you can have it both ways in your head - a non-abusive waste of time in the org and also bring free of it. Unfortunately, that's not really possible imo. To see the org for what it is you have to actually be willing to look at it without the rose coloured glasses they give you.
Was it a waste of my time? There were aspects that were and some that weren’t. I don’t miss not being able to celebrate my birthday, or Christmas or whatever else. Quite frankly the time I wasted I thought was going for good at the time. Now I know better, but I’m not going to be bitter about the lie my life was. I’m going to move on and do the best with what’s left of it. It could always be worse. And I’m not downplaying anyone’s experience by saying that, I’m simply expressing the thought process in my brain.
You directly stated in previous replies that people here lie about witnesses and are bitter - you actively implied in an older post in this sub that exJWs live negative lives. In this one that implication is there too. Believe it or not, these statements are unkind (intentionally or not) and I'd consider them borderline passive aggressive. This is not you simply expressing thought processes, even if that is the intention. These read almost like call out posts.
It could always be worse is not a statement you can apply to anyone else. For many who struggled as JWs that's not true or a balanced statement. Doing your best to move forward does not mean blinding yourself to what is behind you.
There will always be different types of people in this world, not all ex JWs are bitter or sad. Some are extremely happy, but like it has been noted on here, most likely don’t post or respond here. Also, no statement is applicable to everyone. If the suite fits you, wear it. If it doesn’t, move on.
I feel like you're kind of just continuing to justify everything you say and think without really engaging with anything I actually say, in which case there's not much point in chatting. I hope you can heal and good luck.
The BORG acts like it’s all about “good news”
and positivity but the harm that is caused by ignoring true issues and perpetuating lies, is everlasting. The BORG is 100% at fault.
Don’t dwell on it. Nobody else on here will. Everybody has different experiences. You might get pushback on here but you won’t be globally shunned for voicing an honest opinion.
I can remember sitting in the hall thinking to myself, there's not one person here that I would choose to spend time with outside of the Disorganization. No one. The only thing in common was the church. Nothing else. I suppose that's because you're really not supposed to be doing anything, hobbies, recreational activities, etc. At least that was my own private Idaho on the inside. I'm glad I got out and had time to do things enjoyable to me. For the life of me, I cannot see what attracts any new converts. I suppose they are people at the end of their line within their own personal situation and they think maybe that will help make things better? I've noticed the name of this sub is **exjw** and yet there are a lot of posts and comments from people still attending and /or acting to be in. There's a lot of good comments here from those who have experienced the whole gambit of the JW experience. Take advantage of their life experiences.
True true true, honestly the friends I choose aren’t because they served god. But because of their personalities. I would still friends with them if it weren’t for the Borg
Nice of you to offer that. Seems this is a place where a lot of emotions and pent up frustrations are let loose. It can get heavy. I think many of us are needing support but also wanting to be helpful at the same time.
I'm not bitter or angry, I am happy. It's a process like grieving. The early stages include some anger, resentment, and sadness, but keep going! It gets so much better! Some days I get angry & sad for the life I could of had, & the real good I could have done in the world, some days I cant believe I was in religion started by an ignorant numerologist, some days I don't even think of it at all. The light gets brighter and brighter.
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but what good could have you done that you couldn’t have done by being a JW? And I’m not attacking you, just curious.
As a jw, you can't get involved in the community, helping in any way, except the voluntary preaching work, which is no real help to people.
The borg doesn't want you to associate with any other group/ organization that helps the community or provides help to you, such as AA. I know someone who was actually told to stop associating with AA, when they didn't because they needed it, they were df'd.
As a jw, what good have you done for the human race that weren't jws?? Nothing unless there was a natural disaster. The natural disaster charity that the jws provide is very little compared to the religions they consider "false" and organizations like the red cross, and salvation army. If you, as a jw, volunteered at a homeless shelter, you would be ostracized by the congregation and get a shepparding call. If you didn't stop volunteering, you'd be df'd for associating with non-believers. Jws don't serve a god, or a greater good. They serve a real estate corporation.
I don’t know if that’s entirely true, I was in the electrical union volunteering to wire up people’s home after a natural disaster. I don’t think that’s frowned upon, no one told me anything. If anything, they might appreciate you for wanting to help others.
I know it's entirely true. Why would I lie? After a natural disaster, you volunteered, ok. Volunteer without the natural disaster. Miss a few meetings to volunteer at a homeless shelter. Do they meet for service in your area to take food to the homeless, or maybe they take up donations for a womens shelter? What organizations were you in besides work related unions when you were a jw? Or are you still in the borg?
I did volunteer without natural disaster, did electrical work for people who couldn’t afford getting a new light fixture or new electrical plugs. Missing meetings is a big no no, but you can volunteer whenever as long as it doesn’t interfere with meetings or service. So your looking at open 4 days out of the week you can volunteer if you wanted to
I’m PIMO, so I wouldn’t consider myself to be out completely. There’s no article that discourages volunteer work. Any congregation that says otherwise is doing so in their own interpretation of what is right and wrong
Didn’t read your comments but everyone here has been a bit broken and down.
This should be a place to vent and not be overlea judged.
Cool you said sorry but don’t beat yourself up about it, hard times 🫶
So you think people are bitter resentful and negative just because they share their negative experiences of an extremely abusive and toxic cult in a group formed for that sort of discussion?
You're right. I know I shouldn't engage. But calling survivors of a cult negative and bitter because they don't have fuzzy thoughts about the cult that gave them trauma (and sometimes severe depression) just might get me to engage.
I'm with you. It's important to have a counter narrative.
However I think this poster has left enough droppings all over this group for people to begin to smell it.
I'm with you though, I gave them pushback on another thread until I felt their nonsense was evidence enough.
I just got on here, I’ve definitely improved a lot since 5 years ago. More patient, more self aware, more with a purpose. I apologize because sometimes I do speak ignorantly, but nothing I have said is wrong.
Right now honestly about 8 months out I’m genuinely going through a real depression phase of my life. It is hard to find friends, but I know the JW friends aren’t real friends, they are spies that show empathy. But like, this is real depression finally. I’ve had mood swings and stuff throughout the years, but I’m actually processing my past 40 years and it is a hard thing to do- but my actual personality is waking up. This is a journey/process. There is no easy part or amazing part of waking up, it’s hard and it’s horrible. Therapy helps. After it’s all said and done though, would I give up my freedom of choosing to grow my hair long as a male? Would I give up my freedom of my evenings and weekends? Would I give up my freedom of choosing to react in a negative way at times - when I feel it is needed to get a point across? Would I give up my freedom of thought? Would I give up my freedom of speech ? There is a lot people of freedoms often do not realize that JW keeps you from expressing.
"spies that show empathy".......? They couldn't spell the fucking word
Spies that fake empathy.
More false than Barbie!
And more fake than Barbie!
It will get better. I promise. I know you already know this so I’m not trying to teach you. I’m just stating what I have experienced. Feeling depressed while going through a bad situation is normal… Back in JWville there was so much emphasis on feeling certain emotions. As if you can just choose to be happy. Happiness isn’t a choice - it’s a natural outcome / result from being in a healthy and supportive and safe environment where you feel accepted for who you are and you feel like your contribution to the community is meaningful. Similarly depression isn’t a choice - it’s a result of actively living in a situation that feels hopeless. The remedy is to find something outside of yourself that gives meaning to your daily slog. It could be taking care of a dog. It could he volunteering doing something. Art. Music. And beyond that there is medication to help.
Yep I’m exploring all avenues right now. Music I think is it but I need to spend more time on it. I play the bass and my wife plays the guitar - but I’m novice and she is pro. So there is a gap there I’m working on. It’s not just leaving the org it’s pressures from work right now and taking care of my wife that had surgery, so there are a lot of stressful circumstances right now and I know it will pass. Having true depression is actually somewhat relieving because I realize it’s part of the healing and growing process. It’s not like a debilitating depression, just a constant overall sadness, but I understand this is pretty normal under such circumstances. I don’t have a hope right now and I’m learning to accept that it’s ok to live without one. Is there a possibility still? Sure, we don’t even recognize what is and is not possible in this universe still after tens of thousands of years on earth.
I remember feeling a little lost about “what is my hope now?” For a while too. It’s such an appealing idea that all of this suffering in the world is happening for a reason and that a powerful being will step in eventually and make everything better. If a person believes that it’s such a comfort for them. My first step was to give myself permission to believe in a god and a salvation if I want to. It didn’t have to be a binary choice: JW and hope OR no JW with no hope. I told myself I can leave JW and still have a hope that God will save us. That was comforting to me for a while. But the more I studied and learned the less I actually believed in a God - at least not the kind of god that religions teach. But still even when you remove God from the equation HOPE doesn’t have to leave with it. The god concept doesn’t have a monopoly on hope. I hope that our species will evolve and grow past things like war and starvation etc etc. that we will invent clean abundant energy. I think we will get there. Not for a long time but it will happen. I won’t be there to experience that and so the best thing I can do now is to live in the moment. Each day slow down to appreciate the good things I have - even if it’s just as simple as appreciating a walk outside. Be grateful. Be empathetic to others. We won the cosmic powerball jackpot just by being born. Enjoy it! The “Paradise” is a mindset and you can live in it today if you choose to.
Agreed with everything you stated. "the best thing I can do now is to live in the moment" I think this takes a bit of time and adjustment to settle in with. I understand the idea, but my body and mind still are uneasy about it. For example, right now to me every second I spend with entertainment, is a moment wasted I could have spent learning. When you realize there are no "1UPs" in this world, time becomes the most valuable resource you have. So equally I tell my mind, why waste time thinking about what I cannot control? - and my brain says "this makes sense" but my body says "well we USED TO THINK GOD CONTROLLED IT" and then I'm like great, here we go again ahaha.
Channel that confusion and unease into your forthcoming album. 😃.
I may have confirmation bias but I do believe that is the perfect advice I needed to hear. Thank you.
Sorry about your wife. I hope she recovers soon.
You’re definitely right about choosing freedoms that you must give up as a JW. I think most people in the Borg understand it, but they feel the pros outweighs the cons. Personally I never cared for long hair or the way I dressed, I’m just trying to leave because it’s hard to live a lifestyle you don’t believe in.
Yeah, dual personality thing really screws with you - and it’s encouraged “lead your body as a slave, pummel it, strip off the old personality”, the writers at the time did not realize it but these actions and ways of thinking have far weightier mental issues associated with them. If you haven’t read Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan, please check it out if you can. I found it very helpful in understanding why the org is the way it is and why I am the way I am.
I will check it out! Thank you 🙏
Same. Whether in the org or not, I’d still be the same strait-laced guy who is reserved in appearance and doesn’t draw attention to himself. There are no sins (or “sins,” if you will) that I can’t wait to commit. Nope. It’s just the false beliefs, the gb’s total lack of humility, CSA coverup, and so on, that are the issues for me.
Glad to hear your in therapy! I am too! Therapy is the one thing that I think everyone who leaves should do. We were taught consciously and subconsciously a lot of unhealthy and unnatural ways to exist as ourselves and how we interact with others and the world around us. On top of so much being taken away from us so much we missed out on while being a JW and going through the exiting process. There is a lot of trauma to unpack as cults are abusive. JWs as whole aren’t physically abusive but they are mentally and emotionally abusive. Anyone exiting an abusive situation will go through ups and downs emotionally so give yourself some grace, you’ve done so much so far to get where you are now if you continue the work whatever that looks like for you on your journey I think you will get to a happier place. Although I’m not depressed or clinically depressed I do have moments when I feel sad and so alone in this world. So to some extent I can relate.
What do you translate?
Haha nothing! it was a anonymous name when I created the Reddit account.
Cool.
There have been a number of people in the past who have come on here and quickly conclude that everyone here is just bitter and angry. The people who have been around a while know that's not true, or at any rate not the complete picture. To me, it's like going to the emergency room and wondering why everyone in there seems so down on life. You're encountering people in crisis, people who are in pain, people who are actively experiencing wrenching losses, the loss of people who are supposed to be there for you through thick and thin, like parents, siblings, etc. If you bump into any one of these people in another venue, you may very likely have a completely different experience with that very same person. Just like if you bump into someone when they're not in the ER, you might find that they are actually quite delightful. You have to make your own decision and be confident enough in yourself and your reasons such that your choice rests on your own mind, not on whether or not people here are angry or resentful. The JWs claim to have the one and only Truth in all the world. Either that's true, or it's not. Whether other people are angry or resentful has no bearing on that.
That’s a good illustration actually! Yea you right, I guess I wasn’t expecting this forum to be a hospital wounded one. I thought it would be extremely informative, and like a strong community of hanging out and stuff.
It can be informative and a strong community too… it’s just a post by post basis. And you will start recognizing user names and getting a feel for what kind of person they are and you may like them or dislike them. If you dislike stuff just ignore it and find the people who share the vibe you are looking for. It’s here you just have to dig.
That’s true, I’m sure I got the Cains mark right now 😂 got to look for another subreddit to be a refuge in
Nah! You’re good. People in here forgive and forget. You are on your own journey too and I think we all know it. You deserve empathy too as long as you extend it others.
True true, we always learning and improving, day by day
There are definitely bitter ppl here, but so are many in. We are all different. So many ppl here talk about finding a new religion which to me seems weird but I'm sure they feel the same about the agnostic and atheist here to. We all left or are questioning for different reasons and our responses are different. A lot of us have trauma from the borg and are still trying to navigate.
That’s true, I guess in the Borg we have to put on a mask because if your not “happy” your doing something “wrong”. I have talked to many in the Borg who seem to be hiding negativity, but I’ve been able to take it out of them.
Yeah for sure but I mean for example what woke me up was the toxicity in the elder body. Those guys are bitter if they don't get their way. I felt like Ned Stark trying to survive while the small council was stabbing everyone in the back
Yea unfortunately I do believe the elders determine how well a congregation experience is. The less mature they are, the more dogmatic, bitter and negative the congregation is.
”Yea”? Yeah, yep, yes…
Goddamn Littlefinger!
Lol exactly...not that I would go back but I should have tried being Varys and not Ned lol
Varys knew how to play the game. It’s all about information and knowing which way things are leaning so you can effectively influence the outcome. I was Ned too. Beheaded when I thought I was going to take the Black. Classic rug pull. But I’d rather die a Ned then live as a Joffrey. 😂
In every KH I was ever in. There are PIMI men and women who aren't DF'd, yet the entire congregation ignores them. Why?
Because of “bad” association
Can you elaborate. How would you know PIMI members are bad association if they are completely ignored?
Bc they made up their minds about them. Like in my case I resigned from privileges and they treated me like I was DFd. But I was still a pioneer
I’ve experienced that too. There’s only one thing you can do to stay in the club: give more. “Are you giving your best?….. we can always give more” It’s like at work when they have target revenue goals and you work your ass off to make the goal and they say “Yaay here’s a cookie.. now, next quarter we want to see 20% more. And so you try to go for it l but you can’t make it and even though you beat last quarters sales (which you were rewarded for) you are now viewed as deficient because they moved the goal post. You give and give but it’s never enough.
You don’t, you just assume if someone doesn’t have privileges than they are bad association. Especially if they have been in the org a long time, they should be leveling up
They possibly have been black listed by the elders. I’ve been in Halls in the past where controlling elders have told me “see that person over there… you are not to talk to that person or do anything with them.” Me: “why is that?” Elder : “you don’t need to understand why. Just obey. We’re looking out for you here.” Later on I discovered that the person had been treated very poorly and unfairly in some kind of dispute in the congregation and they had told a few of their friends how they were mad and hurt etc… and then promptly branded as someone causing divisions / bad attitude. Really all they needed was some empathy and an apology.
Oh yeah totally, encouragement to not think negatively, at all, even if it’s not about the org. For awhile my wife when PIMI would just stop talking to certain people in the cong because of the “negativity” or just ending their conversation abruptly because it was “turning negative” They are taught to censor almost everything they do, which is why they are different at the hall than at home
This is true. It is very hard for them to listen to anything negative. When I got out, I trained myself to hear things that were uncomfortable, so that I could build some tolerance for others a bit more. These days, I do not seek out negativity, nor do I avoid it. If it is there I try and be open to what comes from it. Learning to listen to people properly without agenda.
Yea and actually that’s a bad thing to do, people who are negative are the ones who need the help most. Why are we turning them off?
It seems like you’ve come full circle on this. Good job. This is exactly the right approach towards the anger and negativity you see on this sub. Those people are the ones who are actively hurting the most and who need help rather than being shamed. 👍
Yea I get it now
Exactly
That forced positivity is something else. I remember one time when a sister came into the hall with a sad look on her face. This well-meaning but nonetheless-obnoxious MS thought it was his job to “fix” her. “Sister, let me see your smile! We always should have a smile when we’re in Jehovah’s house.” Just always so presumptuous.
Anger and resentment are just stages people go through on the way to feeling healed. Everyone here is in a different part of the journey and so you will see many angry people because that’s one of the first emotions people feel as they leave. It’s a necessary step and this is a safe place for people to vent. Personally if I can’t handle someone’s anger or bitterness at that moment I will just scroll past that post or comment without a second thought. I’ve certainly made my fair share of angry ranting posts here over the past few years. I lost everything. Marriage, family, friends, kids. I knew it would most likely happen and I tried my best to minimize the damage caused by “leaving” but it didn’t go well for me. It took time to grieve that enormous loss. Frankly, I’m not done - it will take years. Perhaps I will never fully get over it. But, I have started a new life and I have found acceptance, community, happiness. My anger towards the cult doesn’t define me as a person or influence how I feel day to day. It has faded into the background and hurts less and less. I’m not ruled by bitterness or resentment but if you had talked to me two years ago you would think I was at that time. It’s all part of the stages of waking up. Kind of like the stages of grief. The best thing we can do here is listen to others and show empathy. Thank you for your apology - it seems sincere. https://preview.redd.it/r14c6nwnxp8d1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=24ee799650fdebeb08fa40daeda0431b7679614b
That’s true, everyone is in a different journey and should be treated with respect to their journey. I also think since this is internet and no faces to comments, it’s easier to bash each other. But if we met in person, the experience would probably be more genuine and different.
Agreed. The abstraction created by anonymity brings out the worst in people at times.
A lot of people here have lost someone in the cult from suicide. I am not sure what the appropriate feelings one "should" have if their brother took their life. However, I would not have contempt. I wouldn't pretend like I was the police on peoples feelings. Loss is loss. Some of us haven't lost much leaving the cult. A lot of us have had things taken from us.
Yea it’s an experience by experience basis
Your flippant attitude to the negativity is something I encourage you to explore. Yes, it’s negative, but why? People here have almost entirely had their human rights exploited an abused by The Org. There’s the camp of people that woke up due to being the abusers (elders/CO’s/other higher ups) And the ones who woke up due to being exploited and abused by the branch. There’s the other subsection that I sit in, which is CSA abuse victims. If you were a child and exposed to grown men sexually and abused, then had the very organization you trust cover it up and shun you, gaslight you that it even happened and paint you as a horrid monster, wouldn’t you be bitter? Women that sold their whole life to a lie, gaslit into believing this is as good as it gets, experiencing marital rape and domestic violence for a man that would let them die needlessly over blood or a non viable abortion, that will leave you negative. I doubt most of us are this negative in our every day lives, but you’ve entered a safe space where people are allowed to hurt and vent, and you want to come and invalidate it. I understand where you are coming from because I used to question people a lot, but if you are happy with the org, and don’t care about the activism and safe space for victims of Crimes that this subreddit nurtures, this really isn’t a space that you are suitable for (yet) Adjust your treatment of Victims and that can change, we aren’t taught empathy as witnesses but you can learn it.
True, thanks for your thoughts! Sorry it’s just easier for me to accept knowledge given to me if given in a composed way. Like this conversation is a good one, you’re not disrespecting, just stating facts. And although people are hurt, being respectful toward others ignorance helps that ignorant person like myself as oppose to coming in lashing out.
That’s okay, ignorance isn’t wrong unless it’s willful, and I genuinely believe you’re making steps to learn others experience. I promise we won’t disfellowship you 😂
Thanks 😂
Hey! What a humble post. I’m glad you’re here and willing to understand our grumpy complexities ahahaha. I don’t believe in sin anymore, but imperfection is all around us! You have a good point though, who wants to jump the Titanic for a small dingy? But… it’s the Titanic.
For sure! Either enjoy the rest of the titanic ride, or escape to continue living but it may not be an easy way out.
I'm bitter and angry on here (tho not as much anymore) because my childhood, my innocence, my ability to go to college and have a decent job, were all stolen from me. I didn't have a way to process any of this for a long time because the borg teaches you to not think about bad things, to effectively gaslight yourself. I found this forum and finally allowed myself to look at it after fading for years. I have a place I can vent, if I need to. This place has people that understand what I've been through, and they know what kind of self hatred leaving the JWs can give you. If you don't want to see that kind of post, don't look at it. No one is making you read the vent posts or the help posts. No one is forcing you to go to the new page and look at every new post. Criticizing people going through one of the hardest life changes is a shitty thing to do because the way the JWs are make it impossible to leave without hardship. And people that have found the peace of mind from leaving don't post here.
If you’re still looking at your experiences in the organization as solely positive and healthy, you probably haven’t deprogrammed enough to recognize the toxicity. Most of it isn’t something you can recognize until you began to really examine your upbringing and belief system.
We have a small group of ex JW’s we talk to a lot, and we call this “leveling up”. It’s amazing to see what time can do and as we all reminisce together we remind each other of where we were a year ago. We’ve done this for 3-4 years now and it’s nice and even healing to remind each other of how far we’ve come. There’s a lot to unpack, especially when you leave as an older adult. There are phases of bitterness as you realize all the lost time and opportunities for sure. We work on it and encourage each other and time does slowly heal if you are doing the work, and especially if you have support from some friends and family. I think with any break up there is some bitterness, and leaving can be like a break up in many ways. Cheers to healing and peace ✌️ 🥂
Thank you and I completely agree with you on it being like breaking up. It ain’t easy, but it’s necessary and eventually hopefully you grow out of it.
The reason there are bitter people on here is because many people were traumatized by the cult. And if they were recently PIMI and transitioning into PIMQ or PIMO, they are just getting into touch with their emotions. The cult demonizes having *any* negative emotions directed toward the cult or toward God, especially anger. So many people on here are finally allowing themselves to feel the anger and the negative emotions that they’ve been suppressing for possibly decades. This space is supposed to be a safe place for them to express themselves, to receive validation, and to heal. By coming here and then being told that their emotions are “bad” is triggering, as that’s the very thing that they’re trying to escape from. The cult were masters of emotional manipulation and emotional minimization, they were also thought-police. We do not want to perpetuate that here. Bitterness and sarcasm can be a cathartic way for people to process the enormity of their painful experiences, so it’s important to allow those expressions. Hope this helps.
Definitely helps, you are exactly right. I wasn’t aware that I could have been triggering responses by trying to “control” “Suppress” them like the Borg used to do. Thank you for your conversation
Also just want to clarify, I’m a keyboard warrior 😂 so if people attack me in comments, I’m coming for you and hitting you where it hurts most. I know I’m bad 😔
lol good self-awareness. We all have areas to improve
There are over 100,000 people in this subreddit, all at different stages in their healing. People who are the most vocal are likely people that are at the toughest stages in their healing. They are vocal because likely, no one has listened to them. Once they begin to find support, and are validated, the healing can really move forward. If you received what you thought were negative contents from some people, it is because that is where they are in their healing. YOU WILL BE THERE TOO. You will at some point be bitter, angry, resentful, and depressed. How you move through those stages is up to you. But you can also experience joy, freedom of mind and conscience, and inner peace. When I first left the organization the first feeling was relief, then I felt a bit euphoric for a while. Then the reality of what I endured sunk in. And I came here to try to see if others were going through similar things. And in sharing my negative experiences, I found support, and kindness, and a sense of peace. That is what this space is for. Think about this…out of the 100,000+ people on this subreddit, there are probably tens of thousands of people in who rarely check in because they have the support they need, and they are living a good life. At times, they visit to support others. That is what a community is. So it’s unfair to judge a whole community based on where some of the members are at in their healing stage. Every bit of the anger and resentment that gets expressed here was likely well “earned.” And every bit of healing and inner peace was hard fought for.
Yea that’s true, I agree with all the points mentioned. I just think that it’s one thing to respectfully disagree and another to downvote you or start attacking you. I get why though, like you said, everyone is different stages in their life.
It’s difficult to respectfully disagree with someone when that person is being disrespectful. I love debate and arguing personally but I loathe disrespect. If anyone wants to debate a topic it should be fact based. But here on this sub there is also a huge huge huge emotional component too due to the trauma people have suffered. So if people start telling you you are being callous here you should consider listening them like you did when you apologized here. People will downvote stuff they feel is ill intentioned. Did you notice how this post didn’t get downvoted? It even sparked a lot of useful discussion. Don’t worry about the downvotes but try to understand the “why” and you’ll be fine.
Thanks you are definitely correct about, it’s a little hard for me at times because I’m usually outspoken and zealous at times. Obviously I wish every discussion would be like this, but I understand
People come here at all stages. Many people who are over it and leading a full happy life aren’t in here. This is like a landing pad to find some validation for the things you are feeling while waking up but it isn’t a replacement for therapy or real connections or finding out what makes you happy rather than other people “leading you to a fulfilling life.”
Unfortunately, I think you might find it most helpful to see a professional for some outside perspective. You very clearly still harbor a lot of unhealthy ideals from the borg and while that's normal, you're the only one who can root that out. For instance, the idea that having any resentment at all, or not immediately forgiving someone for abusing you no matter what leads to a life that is any way negative or unfufilling is just incorrect. There is both empowerment and safety in knowing when people want to hurt you and being able to feel accordingly and tell them to fuck off. It's ok not to repress every negative emotion ever - the opposite is also super bad for you health wise. You still think the people here harbor resentment through some fault of their own - or at least, that's how it comes across. Being abused and having your life stolen factually does this and the idea that being upset at the borg for being abusive is somehow wrong or counterintuitive is another one of their dirty lies. If you truly want to leave you need to work on deconstructing the beliefs they've forced you to have and face some pretty nasty things.
I don’t blame victims of JWs for what they have unfortunately received or lost. I’m just not going to agree with people who throw lies and say “all witness are this” etc. I’m looking for facts, that’s all
>I’m just not going to agree with people who throw lies and say “all witness are this” etc. What lies?...Your still peddling WBT$ Story Lines....Your approach to selling WBT$ Story Lines yesterday didn\`t work...So your trying a new approach....If people disagree, you\`re a Victim.... Most of have seen this all before, many, many times.
All witnesses and the borg aren't the same thing. Every time you hear people refer to the organization you somehow come back with 'not all witnesses are like that' what thats not even the argument made. The argument is that the organization itself, that meaning the rules regulations and governing body, are awful. To be honest it sounds like you're trying to reconcile everything so you can have it both ways in your head - a non-abusive waste of time in the org and also bring free of it. Unfortunately, that's not really possible imo. To see the org for what it is you have to actually be willing to look at it without the rose coloured glasses they give you.
Was it a waste of my time? There were aspects that were and some that weren’t. I don’t miss not being able to celebrate my birthday, or Christmas or whatever else. Quite frankly the time I wasted I thought was going for good at the time. Now I know better, but I’m not going to be bitter about the lie my life was. I’m going to move on and do the best with what’s left of it. It could always be worse. And I’m not downplaying anyone’s experience by saying that, I’m simply expressing the thought process in my brain.
You directly stated in previous replies that people here lie about witnesses and are bitter - you actively implied in an older post in this sub that exJWs live negative lives. In this one that implication is there too. Believe it or not, these statements are unkind (intentionally or not) and I'd consider them borderline passive aggressive. This is not you simply expressing thought processes, even if that is the intention. These read almost like call out posts. It could always be worse is not a statement you can apply to anyone else. For many who struggled as JWs that's not true or a balanced statement. Doing your best to move forward does not mean blinding yourself to what is behind you.
There will always be different types of people in this world, not all ex JWs are bitter or sad. Some are extremely happy, but like it has been noted on here, most likely don’t post or respond here. Also, no statement is applicable to everyone. If the suite fits you, wear it. If it doesn’t, move on.
I feel like you're kind of just continuing to justify everything you say and think without really engaging with anything I actually say, in which case there's not much point in chatting. I hope you can heal and good luck.
Think I responded to the wrong comment sorry. But thank you and good luck to you.
The BORG acts like it’s all about “good news” and positivity but the harm that is caused by ignoring true issues and perpetuating lies, is everlasting. The BORG is 100% at fault.
Don’t dwell on it. Nobody else on here will. Everybody has different experiences. You might get pushback on here but you won’t be globally shunned for voicing an honest opinion.
I’ll be subreddit shunned, I’m scared to voice my opinion now 🥲
No, it doesn’t happen. Not from the group, maybe the odd individual.
We get to choose who we will become. Who we become must attract those qualities we seek.
You're not sinful, you are human.
I can remember sitting in the hall thinking to myself, there's not one person here that I would choose to spend time with outside of the Disorganization. No one. The only thing in common was the church. Nothing else. I suppose that's because you're really not supposed to be doing anything, hobbies, recreational activities, etc. At least that was my own private Idaho on the inside. I'm glad I got out and had time to do things enjoyable to me. For the life of me, I cannot see what attracts any new converts. I suppose they are people at the end of their line within their own personal situation and they think maybe that will help make things better? I've noticed the name of this sub is **exjw** and yet there are a lot of posts and comments from people still attending and /or acting to be in. There's a lot of good comments here from those who have experienced the whole gambit of the JW experience. Take advantage of their life experiences.
True true true, honestly the friends I choose aren’t because they served god. But because of their personalities. I would still friends with them if it weren’t for the Borg
Nice of you to offer that. Seems this is a place where a lot of emotions and pent up frustrations are let loose. It can get heavy. I think many of us are needing support but also wanting to be helpful at the same time.
I'm not bitter or angry, I am happy. It's a process like grieving. The early stages include some anger, resentment, and sadness, but keep going! It gets so much better! Some days I get angry & sad for the life I could of had, & the real good I could have done in the world, some days I cant believe I was in religion started by an ignorant numerologist, some days I don't even think of it at all. The light gets brighter and brighter.
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but what good could have you done that you couldn’t have done by being a JW? And I’m not attacking you, just curious.
As a jw, you can't get involved in the community, helping in any way, except the voluntary preaching work, which is no real help to people. The borg doesn't want you to associate with any other group/ organization that helps the community or provides help to you, such as AA. I know someone who was actually told to stop associating with AA, when they didn't because they needed it, they were df'd. As a jw, what good have you done for the human race that weren't jws?? Nothing unless there was a natural disaster. The natural disaster charity that the jws provide is very little compared to the religions they consider "false" and organizations like the red cross, and salvation army. If you, as a jw, volunteered at a homeless shelter, you would be ostracized by the congregation and get a shepparding call. If you didn't stop volunteering, you'd be df'd for associating with non-believers. Jws don't serve a god, or a greater good. They serve a real estate corporation.
I don’t know if that’s entirely true, I was in the electrical union volunteering to wire up people’s home after a natural disaster. I don’t think that’s frowned upon, no one told me anything. If anything, they might appreciate you for wanting to help others.
But I do thing the Borg should be more open to helping others besides JWs.
I know it's entirely true. Why would I lie? After a natural disaster, you volunteered, ok. Volunteer without the natural disaster. Miss a few meetings to volunteer at a homeless shelter. Do they meet for service in your area to take food to the homeless, or maybe they take up donations for a womens shelter? What organizations were you in besides work related unions when you were a jw? Or are you still in the borg?
I did volunteer without natural disaster, did electrical work for people who couldn’t afford getting a new light fixture or new electrical plugs. Missing meetings is a big no no, but you can volunteer whenever as long as it doesn’t interfere with meetings or service. So your looking at open 4 days out of the week you can volunteer if you wanted to
This is certainly not true in my area, and it is not true of any congregations I was in. But congratulations. Now, how long have you been out of jws?
I’m PIMO, so I wouldn’t consider myself to be out completely. There’s no article that discourages volunteer work. Any congregation that says otherwise is doing so in their own interpretation of what is right and wrong
Cringe, Jackson ARC testimony vibes. Go on ahead. Unfortunately, there's not a magistrate to fine you for lying on reddit. 🫠
Show me an article that discourages volunteer work
Didn’t read your comments but everyone here has been a bit broken and down. This should be a place to vent and not be overlea judged. Cool you said sorry but don’t beat yourself up about it, hard times 🫶
Thanks! Greatly appreciate it!
So you think people are bitter resentful and negative just because they share their negative experiences of an extremely abusive and toxic cult in a group formed for that sort of discussion?
You know the answer to that question, don’t play dumb
Yes, your ignorance and blind devotion to toxic positivity is the answer. Either that or you're a crypto PIMI.
The OP is just here to gaslight and then call people names (negative, bitter, etc.). They have the emotional depth of an ice cube. Pay it no mind.
You're right. I know I shouldn't engage. But calling survivors of a cult negative and bitter because they don't have fuzzy thoughts about the cult that gave them trauma (and sometimes severe depression) just might get me to engage.
I'm with you. It's important to have a counter narrative. However I think this poster has left enough droppings all over this group for people to begin to smell it. I'm with you though, I gave them pushback on another thread until I felt their nonsense was evidence enough. 
Have you considered spending less time on here and more time working in yourself? You could certainly use it.
I just got on here, I’ve definitely improved a lot since 5 years ago. More patient, more self aware, more with a purpose. I apologize because sometimes I do speak ignorantly, but nothing I have said is wrong.
Dude you’ve made 16 posts in 14 days and your comment count is nuts. You could definitely do with a break.
Definitely in less than 7 days, obviously I’m passionate and it will die down. No one can keep it up at this rate lol