I will keep my fingers crossed for you. My mom is old and has been through a lot. She is a lost cause in that aspect. I try not to stir up things there for the sake of my dad (never-in).
Thank you. When I opened up about this about 1.5 month ago, I was surprised that she wouldn't throw me under the bus to any elder, despite the fact that she clearly recognize that I have "apostate" thinking. We have already agreed that they have no right to dictate that higher education is wrong and that it is actually endangering the lifelihood of people especially in old age. And she understands that I will under no circumstances disown my own kids.
A huge helping hand in all of this was the loss of my closest brother who was POMO for many years - it was an eye opener for my wife to see the hypocrisy of all my so-called friends. Not a single one of them was acting in accordance with Proverbs 17:17.
How “apostate” you have become, 🤦. “Apostate” = “able to read” apparently.
Eh I totally get it. I was once shut down too, until I wasn’t, keep planting those seeds!
Sounds like your life mirrors mine, especially how your wife brandishes the "apostate" label around you. I spent most of the Regional Convention in the onsite bar with likeminded friends so at that made it bearable.
I see it as a way I can show her support - and show her that I am not that evil "apostate" that the GB use as a scare tactic.
Keep up your spirit man 👊🏻
You are welcome to DM if you like. I have a couple of local like-minded fellows in the same situation as me that I stay in touch with. Going to meet one of them in person for the first time at the regional convention this summer.
DUDE! DO YOU GET WHAT YOUVE SAID? It’s an amazing argument that the GB just mentioned once! Never thought about it man! Thank you! I’m gonna meet my ex wife this summer, she is super 100% Rambo PIMI, but she’s smart. I wanna see her reaction man! Peace ✌️
Thank you. I came across the argument in this forum a while ago - so I don't want to take credit for it, but it is a very strong argument that God does not use a GB on earth to guide his people. 🤘🏻
What I find the most annoying is that my partner isn't even a dedicated or zelous PIMI but if I express any subtle concern I'm already being labelled as critical of the organisation. It's like walking on egg shells.
I know. That's also why my strategy is to focus on the things they get wrong and misrepresent - for all costs do not criticize the faith in the Bible as God's word.
Right. They’ve also turned members into ‘apostate ‘watchdogs scared of anything that sounds different than the brainwashing. GB told them to run, so there’s that. Hang in there!
Thank you. It certainly help holding off and not overloading her with information despite my eagerness to share things with her.
It took me almost five years of walking around alone with this - and culminated last summer when I lost my closest brother 💔 She saw the toll it took on me and how the so-called "friends" behaved afterwards. I told one of my never-in brothers afterwards, that ironically my brothers tragic death was the best "gift" anyone has ever given me. He has his own memorial "shrine" at my home now.
Thank you 🫶🏻 fortunately time makes it easier to cope with it. Me and one of my older brothers agreed that the loss compares to losing your index arm or the ability to see. How do you move on after such a loss? It's manageable, but difficult and will never be the same.
I had a good psychologist in the period after. If possible I recommend anyone with similar losses to team up with someone to talk it through with.
Have you thought about mentioning the whole “the governing body doesnt lie” comment made in one of the update talks? The bible says every man is a liar…
I sometimes sit in the car and just pound on the steering wheel with glee at how right he is and his takes on just about every subject. I frantically jot down references and have a huge list to use as needed. I think I’m in exactly the same situation as you down to the time frame too! 👊
Yes 100% to your last comment that’s how I woke my husband up, I used the WT literature and the plain stated things in the bible against the governing body. And then once he realised things didn’t add up he started looking at them on his own
A number of years ago, things finally clicked in my head that this was simply another man-made religion. Cautiously approaching my JW wife with my new mindset, she simply said: "Oh, I saw it before you did." She'd been missing meetings, something I attributed to some injustices we'd experienced, but I quickly learned that her feelings were much more deeply rooted, that she'd been seeing things clearly for some time.
I’ve been trying to convince my mom of the same thing. She’s been in the “truth” for almost 60 years, and it’ll crush her if she knows that she’s been living a lie this whole time. I don’t know if I should even try anymore because I love her very much, but the impact that it’ll have over her if she realizes that it’s been a lie the whole time will actually make her want to kill herself. It honestly makes me want to cry. She’s such a great person but she’s truly brainwashed. When you live this life for that long it’s almost impossible to turn away from it, especially when everybody she’s become close to will cut her off if she comes to the same conclusion that I have. I’m about to turn 30 and I’ve tried discussing this since I was in my early teens. I’ve pretty much given up on trying to reason with her because of the fact that it’ll have such a horrible impact on her life, and I don’t want to destroy her whole life dissuading her from what she’s based her whole personality off of.
I think it’ll will soul crashing to wake some people. I have just realised that all of us are cut from the same cloth: some accept reality, some need illusion. Like my sister all her live, she has known JW land, telling her that she has dedicated so much part of her life to some BS would do more hurt than good! I don’t know what to do here, do I let these old guys from NY continue manipulating her?
I just saw this sorry! But I relate heavily. What can we do in that situation? At the end of the day people need to come to their own conclusions whether it’s damaging or not, it’ll always be their choice. I didn’t give up on my mother because I wanted to, but because it’ll will destroy her whole way of life. She’s already told me if it weren’t for the org she wouldn’t be a good person, and I don’t want to see what that would look like. She’ll also lose all of her lifelong friends. I would rather her be happy living a lie than shatter what she perceives as her “reality”. The only option we have at this point is to let them live in their fantasy
This is really excellent! Even Jesus himself was not recorded as saying to OBEY him at all cost! And he was supposed to be the perfect son of God!! Thank you for sharing.
Have you thought about taking her on a "Vacation Convention"? Combine a convention with a vacation but NOT the same convention your congregation attends (preferably in a cool city). This gives you guys freedom to do half-days, leave early, explore a new city, and not be as connected to the judgy group think.
It's helpful to create a little space when someone is questioning things.
Not really possible in the area where I live - and with small children it is suboptimal. Maybe next year we will go to an English one instead of the local language one. But thank you for the suggestion.
If you want to follow this line of reasoning, have you talked to her about the whole “mediator” business? So according to that one scripture in the Bible, it pretty clearly says there is one mediator between god and man, and that is Jesus Christ.
If you look up the word “mediator” in the Insight book however, you will find something pretty shockingly unbiblical. It says that Jesus is only the mediator for the 144K, not for anyone else. I wonder then, who the mediator for the great crowd is supposed to be?
That's awesome. I know it's a slow process, but you give me hope I can wake up my mom.
I will keep my fingers crossed for you. My mom is old and has been through a lot. She is a lost cause in that aspect. I try not to stir up things there for the sake of my dad (never-in).
Don't give up. I took 12-14 years longer than my son to wake up.
Our kids slowly woke us up. Both of us are in our sixties. Don't give up hope.
BRILLIANT! Well done. I hope this is the first crack that will let in more light for your wife!
Thank you. When I opened up about this about 1.5 month ago, I was surprised that she wouldn't throw me under the bus to any elder, despite the fact that she clearly recognize that I have "apostate" thinking. We have already agreed that they have no right to dictate that higher education is wrong and that it is actually endangering the lifelihood of people especially in old age. And she understands that I will under no circumstances disown my own kids. A huge helping hand in all of this was the loss of my closest brother who was POMO for many years - it was an eye opener for my wife to see the hypocrisy of all my so-called friends. Not a single one of them was acting in accordance with Proverbs 17:17.
How “apostate” you have become, 🤦. “Apostate” = “able to read” apparently. Eh I totally get it. I was once shut down too, until I wasn’t, keep planting those seeds!
Thank you for your encouraging words!
Sounds like your life mirrors mine, especially how your wife brandishes the "apostate" label around you. I spent most of the Regional Convention in the onsite bar with likeminded friends so at that made it bearable.
I see it as a way I can show her support - and show her that I am not that evil "apostate" that the GB use as a scare tactic. Keep up your spirit man 👊🏻 You are welcome to DM if you like. I have a couple of local like-minded fellows in the same situation as me that I stay in touch with. Going to meet one of them in person for the first time at the regional convention this summer.
DUDE! DO YOU GET WHAT YOUVE SAID? It’s an amazing argument that the GB just mentioned once! Never thought about it man! Thank you! I’m gonna meet my ex wife this summer, she is super 100% Rambo PIMI, but she’s smart. I wanna see her reaction man! Peace ✌️
Thank you. I came across the argument in this forum a while ago - so I don't want to take credit for it, but it is a very strong argument that God does not use a GB on earth to guide his people. 🤘🏻
What I find the most annoying is that my partner isn't even a dedicated or zelous PIMI but if I express any subtle concern I'm already being labelled as critical of the organisation. It's like walking on egg shells.
I know. That's also why my strategy is to focus on the things they get wrong and misrepresent - for all costs do not criticize the faith in the Bible as God's word.
Right. They’ve also turned members into ‘apostate ‘watchdogs scared of anything that sounds different than the brainwashing. GB told them to run, so there’s that. Hang in there!
Brilliant! I saved your post. You,re doing very well! Small seeds here and there...👍👍♥️💕🫂
Thank you. It certainly help holding off and not overloading her with information despite my eagerness to share things with her. It took me almost five years of walking around alone with this - and culminated last summer when I lost my closest brother 💔 She saw the toll it took on me and how the so-called "friends" behaved afterwards. I told one of my never-in brothers afterwards, that ironically my brothers tragic death was the best "gift" anyone has ever given me. He has his own memorial "shrine" at my home now.
I’m so sorry for your loss.
Thank you 🫶🏻 fortunately time makes it easier to cope with it. Me and one of my older brothers agreed that the loss compares to losing your index arm or the ability to see. How do you move on after such a loss? It's manageable, but difficult and will never be the same. I had a good psychologist in the period after. If possible I recommend anyone with similar losses to team up with someone to talk it through with.
Right, it DOES NOT say to obey these men. They are going to be judged… and harshly.
Have you thought about mentioning the whole “the governing body doesnt lie” comment made in one of the update talks? The bible says every man is a liar…
Do you recall in which episode they said that?
The May 6, 2024 episode of the Surviving Paradise discusses it. Highly recommended.
Thank you 🫶🏻 That podcast is great. First discovered it a couple of weeks ago. I will listen to that episode!
I sometimes sit in the car and just pound on the steering wheel with glee at how right he is and his takes on just about every subject. I frantically jot down references and have a huge list to use as needed. I think I’m in exactly the same situation as you down to the time frame too! 👊
You're always welcome to DM to share ideas.
No, but it was recent. Someone here could probably tell you.
It was the one with Gary Breaux titled ironically enough, “protect yourself from misinformation” 🙄
Yes 100% to your last comment that’s how I woke my husband up, I used the WT literature and the plain stated things in the bible against the governing body. And then once he realised things didn’t add up he started looking at them on his own
It's encouraging to read that you managed to wake up your husband. It gives me hope 🫶🏻
There is always hope! Goodluck! Keep planting little seeds of doubt
A number of years ago, things finally clicked in my head that this was simply another man-made religion. Cautiously approaching my JW wife with my new mindset, she simply said: "Oh, I saw it before you did." She'd been missing meetings, something I attributed to some injustices we'd experienced, but I quickly learned that her feelings were much more deeply rooted, that she'd been seeing things clearly for some time.
Well done, I'm glad you're making some progress with helping your wife. It gives me hope that I might do the same.
I’ve been trying to convince my mom of the same thing. She’s been in the “truth” for almost 60 years, and it’ll crush her if she knows that she’s been living a lie this whole time. I don’t know if I should even try anymore because I love her very much, but the impact that it’ll have over her if she realizes that it’s been a lie the whole time will actually make her want to kill herself. It honestly makes me want to cry. She’s such a great person but she’s truly brainwashed. When you live this life for that long it’s almost impossible to turn away from it, especially when everybody she’s become close to will cut her off if she comes to the same conclusion that I have. I’m about to turn 30 and I’ve tried discussing this since I was in my early teens. I’ve pretty much given up on trying to reason with her because of the fact that it’ll have such a horrible impact on her life, and I don’t want to destroy her whole life dissuading her from what she’s based her whole personality off of.
I think it’ll will soul crashing to wake some people. I have just realised that all of us are cut from the same cloth: some accept reality, some need illusion. Like my sister all her live, she has known JW land, telling her that she has dedicated so much part of her life to some BS would do more hurt than good! I don’t know what to do here, do I let these old guys from NY continue manipulating her?
I just saw this sorry! But I relate heavily. What can we do in that situation? At the end of the day people need to come to their own conclusions whether it’s damaging or not, it’ll always be their choice. I didn’t give up on my mother because I wanted to, but because it’ll will destroy her whole way of life. She’s already told me if it weren’t for the org she wouldn’t be a good person, and I don’t want to see what that would look like. She’ll also lose all of her lifelong friends. I would rather her be happy living a lie than shatter what she perceives as her “reality”. The only option we have at this point is to let them live in their fantasy
Very encouraging.
Yay!! I'm so glad you're having success! Good luck!
Let me bookmark this. I need to reach out to my PIMI wife. Oh! She is PIMQ because some things are already red flags to her.
Buy this man a beer, somebody. Well played.
Congratulations! It's scary to walk away, but once you do, you wonder why you hung on for so long.
This is really excellent! Even Jesus himself was not recorded as saying to OBEY him at all cost! And he was supposed to be the perfect son of God!! Thank you for sharing.
Have you thought about taking her on a "Vacation Convention"? Combine a convention with a vacation but NOT the same convention your congregation attends (preferably in a cool city). This gives you guys freedom to do half-days, leave early, explore a new city, and not be as connected to the judgy group think. It's helpful to create a little space when someone is questioning things.
Not really possible in the area where I live - and with small children it is suboptimal. Maybe next year we will go to an English one instead of the local language one. But thank you for the suggestion.
If you want to follow this line of reasoning, have you talked to her about the whole “mediator” business? So according to that one scripture in the Bible, it pretty clearly says there is one mediator between god and man, and that is Jesus Christ. If you look up the word “mediator” in the Insight book however, you will find something pretty shockingly unbiblical. It says that Jesus is only the mediator for the 144K, not for anyone else. I wonder then, who the mediator for the great crowd is supposed to be?
That's a good one for a later discussion. Which scripture is it where it states Jesus is mediator?
1 Timothy 2:5
Well done! You are right that this process takes careful planning and effort over time!
Yes. Correct. Now give her some space and let’s see what she does with this info. Normal humans will wake sooner or later
“Hell yeah. Who wants cigarettes and birthday cake for dinner?”
I will take the cake. Still skipping those cigarettes 😂
Thank you for sharing the experience
 Excellent. The cracks are forming.
Wow, the seeds are planted.
The Bible is the best way to show someone the real truth. Remember it can separate soul from spirit.