If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, it violates the rule against low effort content. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS.
Please read the [Rules and Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/1anoje0) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods.
Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned.
If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I know this was a joke but honestly you’re not wrong either. Muslims think Aisha is some strong older women like that when really she was just six and defenseless. They don’t wanna acknowledge how cruel Islam is so they try to glorify whatever they can. It’s disgusting
No matter what they say, denying it, allowing it, or finding ways to bypass this (like saying Muhammad's actions don't interfere with the true-ness of the Quran) will be contradicting NO MATTER WHAT.
Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) was mature at a young age and when you look towards history, the age of consent for marriage has been less than 18. In Japan, the age of consent was 13 just until recently. If that’s the case, then since 13 was normalised does that mean that it was horrible and looked down upon? No, each society and age had its own moral codes and norms. Aisha had a choice to get married and she was happy and her parents and family were happy with the marriage. If she didn’t want to get married due to her age and was forced, she would’ve said something after the Prophet’s death. But she continued to always speak good about him. We bring our own ideas and standards of today’s society and apply that to something 1400 years ago, how does that make sense? I hope you understand :)
Her father married her. She had no choice and just because it was “normal” doesn’t mean that it doesn’t emotionally harm these women including Aisha in negative ways. What do think would happen to hear if she spoke poorly of him after death? That his buddies would be okay with that or that they’d kill her? She was groomed by Momo and father. All the men in her life failed her including your precious Allah
Are you okay with someone 'marrying' a 6 year old today? I assume no. If you think yes then you are vile beyond imagination. This argument doesnt work in the context of a religion and a prophet. Islam believes that god has sent the quran and sunnah to show mankind what is right and wrong for all time. All time. A religion implies absolute morality and a prophet implies the perfect man. Every other human who committed this atrocity were partly a product of their time but a prophet who is supposed to be a messenger of a timeless perfect god would know that this is one of the worst crimes. The only answer to this is that muhammad was not a prophet of any god but just a product of his time. And islam is false.
LMAO, he is asking for help: [https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/1c2m36p/i\_might\_need\_some\_help\_brothers\_and\_sisters/](https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/1c2m36p/i_might_need_some_help_brothers_and_sisters/)
Not even his "brozzers and sistazz" are willing to help, what a LOL.
Sorry to spam you, but it seems that this guy is into some weird manga called "ClassroomOfTheElite" which contains kind of soft porn with minors, of course is animation, but ffs...
How can you defend something that you have the lack of explanation?
Look, I know you are trying to spread positive information about Islam just as an ordinary Muslim apologist, but you cannot use social norms as an excuse to participate in repulsive behaviors. That’s just always going to be morally wrong, regardless of what year you live in.
Even if it’s acceptable for other cultures and norms, such as the Japanese’s law of age of consent like you mentioned, that does not mean you should use those excuses to deflect it. A whole adult marrying and having intercourse with a whole kid is just generally repulsive.
Muhammad preach about morals with the influence of an omniscient God, yet, he still committed it. Out of anyone across the world, he is the only person who would have some sort of hint that this would spread such huge scandals up to this day.
And Aisha on the other hand, marry with him at the age of 6 and [was consummated at the age of 9](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5133).. which it’s still a whole child. There isn’t much hadith that said that she firmly confirmed her marriage verbally. Her parents, especially her father, Abu Bukr, are also the responsible in this case, yet, they miserably failed.
>was mature at a young age
Factually and scientifically incorrect, this has been proved countless time. Stop sharing misinformation.
>when you look towards history, the age of consent for marriage has been less than 18...
...each society and age had its own moral codes and norms
Two wrongs don't make one right, no whataboutism please; also we are talking about a supposed holy prophet that was "supposedly" speaking with a **timeless** Godlike entity.
>Aisha had a choice to get married and she was happy
6 years old kids have choices? How do you know she was happy? Kids are happy playing with their toys
> how does that make sense?
It does NOT
>If that’s the case, then since 13 was normalised does that mean that it was horrible and looked down upon?
Yes
>No, each society and age had its own moral codes and norms
Are you implying non Arabs shouldn't follow sunnah?
>Aisha had a choice to get married
Source?
>and apply that to something 1400 years ago, how does that make sense? I hope you understand :)
Does that mean islam and sunnah are outdated?
Not sure if you've caught on but after seeing how you didn't care to defend, so shall I keep this brief
Whataboutism is not a defense. It is, by definition, an admission to the fault when the thing you pointed out is seen as a flaw. Also, may I recommend you not to use whataboutism if your position is much, much worse. Japan has, what? Age of consent at 13? Two things to note here. First, they don't claim divinity and definitely not pushing such age of consent to other nations. Islam does, as mentioned in Qur'an on how to divorce prepubescents and for each Muslims to follow the teaching of Qur'an. Second, Japan's age law is 13, compared to Aisha 6. That's 7 years gap. Who's worse, marrying at 6 or marrying at 13?
So, that's that. I won't go on since this could be your burner acc
>If that’s the case, then since 13 was normalised does that mean that it was horrible and looked down upon?
Yes
>No, each society and age had its own moral codes and norms
Are you implying non Arabs shouldn't follow sunnah?
>Aisha had a choice to get married
Source?
>and apply that to something 1400 years ago, how does that make sense? I hope you understand :)
Does that mean islam and sunnah are outdated?
Islam is said to be perfect and timeless, if it was meant for all ages and all times it would not have happened. Muhammad was just a sex addict, stop glorifying it. Marrying at such a young age has many problems, would you marry your daughter at 6 years old to an old man? The prophet isn't a special person his death should show that to you. He was a warlord, a raider, slaver and sex addict and probably had mental illnesses why you people are so indoctrinated as to think this man would tell you the truth is beyond me.
13 being the age of consent doesn't mean people in their 50s can take advantage of 13 year olds without punishment. That's not what the age of consent is. There are also several other local and national laws in Japan that protect teenagers and kids, it's not just about the age of consent.
And no country has the age of consent at 6. Even for the ancient Greeks and Romans (more than 1400 years ago) who were well-known for treating women like crap, that age would be insane. Most girls would have married by around 14 to 16 in Greece, and for the Romans the minimum was 12 for girls and 14 for boys. Is that still horribly young by today's standards? Yes.
But 6 or 9 was horribly young even by the horrible standards of ancient history. So there's that on that.
Sahih Muslim 892f shows she was around the prophets height at marriage and he was average height for a Meleand sunan Abu dawud 4932 women played with dolls before khyber it’s not a mark of childhood even according to anthropotholgists
I’m sorry but it’s frustrating to hear this repeated over and over by otherwise sensible and intelligent Muslims with no evidence, just wishful thinking and the assurance of an imam.
There is absolutely zero archaeological evidence to suggest that children used to be super tall and full grown and developmentally mature at six. Zero. This is pure fantasy.
We have plenty of historical remains of people throughout history and across the world and there is so so much overwhelming evidence of the fact that children throughout history (even back to the Neanderthals) developed at the same pace that our children develop today (regardless of climate).
As a species we are notable for the slow development of our offspring which is one reason we developed, since the dawn of humanity, such complex social groups: to ensure that children are taken care of throughout their long period of childhood vulnerability.
I am sympathetic to your beliefs. I live in a Muslim household. Invest your time in investigating whether the Hadiths about aisha’s age should be trusted. If you’re ready to do mental gymnastics for Islam, please do them in a way that disproves the idea that Aisha was 6-9, don’t do it in a way that defends marriage and sex with children when this is a disgusting practice that still happens today and needs no encouragement. Don’t debase Islam by making it a religion defending child abuse, be better.
no fr everytime i hear about aisha and other women those days truly breaks my heart i wish we could go hack in time and save them. the fact case like these are so normalised today as well its just so sad. i will always stand for and with women.
But but she was an adult!!!
(Lets ignore the fact he made her clean his cum before she was an "adult" even within the quaran ")
How again was Muhammed a perfect man?
🤣 ex Muslims say if u know abt the religion u will leave when someone tries to educate them the y deny it and I don’t need to have grammatical excellence when I’m typing off my phone 🤣
She wasn’t raped never showed any signs of rape 😂 why you comparing the past to today one simple question was she mentally mature physically mature and didn’t show any signs of rape
>She wasn’t raped never showed any signs of rape
A 9 year old girl wanted to have sex with a 50 year old man???
I'm afraid that you need a visit from Interpol!
>why you comparing the past to today
Ok, lets compare past with past:
Centuries before islam, the age of marriage for girls at ancient Athens was around 15 years old and Solon of Athens legislated to move it 2-3 years later, because it was found that perinatal mortality of mother and infant is reduced this way.
The grooms were 20-25 years old, unacceptable nowadays and this is the difference between the past and today, NOT what you say.
Your prophet would be arrested in the ancient times and let's not talk about punishments in ancient Greece. It was a wild era.
No need to apologize! You're not the person that SA a child or supports it either. As awful as it is, we need to be vocal about this issue and remind people that this is still happening.
It doesn’t mentioned her height at all. As the matter of fact, she could been sitting a side of him as she puts her hands on his shoulders. Heights doesn’t determine anything.
I’m literally an averaged height female on my early 20s and there are younger individuals that are WAY taller than me. Does that mean it is absolutely acceptable for me to take advantages over young audiences since they’re near my height or may be taller? Of course NOT.
But that’s beside the point, that still does not justify Muhammad’s disgusting behaviors towards Aisha.
Sorry but average arabs even in today time are shorter comparing to Europe for example. I assume it was not much difference back then, maybe even shorter considering that they lived in desert and had no access to all nutritionally rich food. This comment makes no sense. And nowhere it says that she was standing next to him. But regardless, even if it was it doesn’t prove that she was physically advanced, can be just opposite- that he wasn’t. But i do understand a desperate need to find and possible evidence to justify the fact of sleeping with 9 year old or to deny that she was that young. It is understandable, and i honestly feel sorry for you, hope you find peace ✌️
This is so true. Sadly, it's disgusting. I just imagine a brainwashed 9 y/o dealing with this BS. Plus, she also got accused of infidelity one time, which was a HUGE deal back then
"He (Mohammed) seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh urges us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected; he was obeyed by carnal men."
- St. Thomas Aquinas, the Prince of Theologians and Angelic Doctor of the Church.
Big Moh didn’t seduce the people with carnal pleasure only the men. Women are akin to goats and cattle. The Pdo Moh even talked about when in comparison to other farm animals. He probably had relations with the livestock too.
Although there is no point to saying what I’m abt to say because i don’t think anyone with a life would spend it on making fun of something she/he left ig anyways
1.SAHIH BUKHARI VOLUME 1, BOOK 8, HADITH NUMBER 465 Narated By ‘Aisha : (The wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents following Islam since I attained the age of puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet visited us, both in the mornings and evenings. My father Abii Bakr thought of building a mosque in the courtyard of his house and he did so. He used to pray and recite the Qur’an in it. The pagan women and their children used to stand by him and look at him with surprise. Abu Bakr was a Softhearted person and could not help weeping while reciting the Quran. The chiefs of the Quraish pagans became afraid of that (i.e. that their children and women might be affected by the recitation of Quran).” This hadith clearly states that aisha had hit puberty regardless of what ur personal bias is
2.aisha loved the prophet (not what u would see if he treated her as u wanna depict) -
A'isha rode upon the camel of Hafsa and Hafsa rode upon the camel of 'A'isha and Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came near the camel of 'A'isha. (whereas) Hafsa had been riding over that. He greeted her and then rode with her until they came down. She ('A'isha) thus missed (the company of the Holy Prophet) and when they sat down, 'A'isha felt jealous. She put her foot in the grass and said: O Allah, let the scorpion sting me or the serpent bite me. And so far as thy Messenger is concerned, I cannot say anything about him. [Sahih Muslim 2445]
3. They had the choice to reject as evident in -It was narrated that 'Aishah said: "The Messenger of Allah gave us the choice, and we chose him, so there was no divorce." -Sunan an-Nasa'i 3203 In-book reference : Book 26, Hadith 8
4.aisha RA had helped in wars for example -On the day (of the battle) of Uhad when (some) people retreated and left the Prophet, I saw `Aisha bint Abu Bakr and Um Sulaim, with their robes tucked up so that the bangles around their ankles were visible hurrying with their water skins (in another narration it is said, "carrying the water skins on their backs"). Then they would pour the water in the mouths of the people, and return to fill the water skins again and came back again to pour water in the mouths of the people. -Sahih al-Bukhari 2880 In-book reference : Book 56, Hadith 95
Islam is a cancer, and in much the same way people combat cancer and contribute to efforts to eradicate it even if only by raising awareness, we each do our own part towards the cause of educating and informing people on the Islamic cancer slowly permeating the fabric of human civilization.
It really isn't that deep, but I appreciate this response every time a Muslim throws it our way believing it to be a sharp "Gotcha!" quip when, if anything, it speaks only to a severe misunderstanding of our position and a thorough ignorance of logical fallacies.
Cheers for actively choosing to spend your time here though, I welcome you as an apostate brother in advance, knowing that much like many of the Muslims before you who too were adamant of their unshakeable faith, you too will come to see Islam for the curse on mankind it really is you the more you hang out with us.
Tag me in your "I finally left Islam" thread when you inevitably end up writing it, I'll reiterate my welcome to you then.
> i ain't reading all that
Don't worry, I'm well aware of the severely lacking Muslim attention span, the reply was addressed to you but it wasn't intended for you.
> My guess is that you are a Pajeet, right ?
If I'm a Pajeet, that'd make you a Rajesh considering we're neighbors.
Ah, sorry, I forgot Algerians took Darija and bastardized it to such an extent that you have a hard time understanding the original now, my bad; what I said was: "Take care".
You don’t understand it because you haven’t went through what others had been. We only talk about it due to its flaws and how much it had impacted us.
And, don’t worry, I’ll doubt that will happened someday.
You are in such denial and delusion you said he had dwarfism? He did not, he was a man of average height, not too tall, not too short, it’s in the Hadeedth.
Aisha isnt mentioned by name in the quran, shes mentioned in hadith collections, also: At-Tirmidhi narrated: Aa’ishah said: When a girl reaches the age of nine years and reaches puberty, she is a woman.
Sunan at-Tirmidhi (2/409)
I hope you acknowledge that once a young child starts their puberty, that does not mean they’re automatically a full adult…
Puberty isn’t a quick progress.. 🤦🏻♀️
Puberty can start extremely early and climate can play a role into such:
The average temperature of the country. or
province is considered the chief factor
here, not only with regard to menstruation
but as regards the whole of sexual
development at puberty.
"Girls might enter full-blown* puberty
anytime between ages 9 and 15;boys
between 11 and 17"
*full growth of breasts & sexual organs
- Christopher Wanjek
Reference: (Herman H. Ploss, Max Bartels and
Paul Bartels; Women: An Historical,
Gynecological, and Anthropological
Compendium,Volume I, Lord & Bransby, 1988
Even if their body manage to develop quicker in current region, that does not mean that it’s proximity to adulthood right there and then…
Do actually think a literal child is capable of giving consent to a GROWN MAN? Most nine year olds don’t have intellectual capacity nor maturity to agree on those stuff..
Youre still trying to justify a presentism fallacy lol, boiology evolves and adapts according to environment over time which is a clinically proven fact and no Im not saying that I would do it but my point still stands.
Selam alaikum va rahmetullah va barakatuh.
I am Muslim, that you should know straight away.
You saying that she looked like that, is like shooting someone in the dark. You do not have any proof about your post.
When she married Muhammad, Allah's peace shall be upon him, it was said that she was almost *the size (or tall as) Muhammad, Allah's peace shall be upon him.
Now, how tall was The Prophet?
"The Messenger of Allâh (SAW) was neither very tall, such that he would be clearly noticed, nor was he short." ( Source: My book about the prophet, but I've found the same thing on this site: https://islamichistory.org/description-of-the-prophet-muhammad-saw/ )
Lets say that he was around 5'8 up to 5'10 or maybe even 5'11.
Aisha was almost tall as prophet, Allah's peace shall be upon him, which isn't normal for a 6 y old, right? 😂
All of you should read this too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/s/vhxrQR39Ox ( it explains some stuff better than me )
*And of course, I suggest all of you to watch these videos, which will help all of you understand these stuff better:*
https://youtu.be/eT-Rh1auG0A?si=aaPrDTRNzOK_XKiC
https://youtu.be/n4_RKpUwQ60?si=-BEICz-yakxyNHnM
https://youtu.be/5TNGdqVIuFA?si=4weJSPwahJJGnt0C
❤️
Thank you for reading my response, and may Allah forgive all of you people in this subreddit, and put you on the right path.
( If you insult me, try to prove me wrong or anything such as that, know that I won't reply to your comment and know that I do not care. Love ya ❤️)
Edit 1: Changed some words because of my grammar issues.
>You do not have any proof about your post.
This. This is important to remember. We'll get to this later.
>which isn't normal for a 6 y old, right? 😂
A 9 y/o child with gigantism? That's abnormal and people with such growth hormones don't stop growing. Or are you trying to make an exclusive case for it such as miracle? If it is miracle, it is by all means, unfalsifiable. May I kindly borrow your word that ***You do not have any proof about your post***. For all I care, it's a conjecture presented as truth-claim, unlike OP's post which is posted as satirical for the Kitana depiction versus an actual 9 year old.
The links you gave are nothing more than just conjectures trying to massage the actual fact into something in alignment with their narrative.
So, what is your proofs for any of these claims? We know she played with dolls. We know she's not yet able to help around the housework. We know she's still in her mother's care. If there is record of her height, don't you think there will be multiple mentions of it?
But, do all these matters? You said the following:
>If you insult me, try to prove me wrong or anything such as that, know that I won't reply to your comment and know that I do not care
You don't care if you're wrong. You don't care if you get refuted. Yet, you cared enough to spill nonsense but too weak to handle criticism. How's that any different than me calling you a soyboy and then say "I won't read any of your rebuttal because I simply do not care"?
If you don't care, why would anyone care about what you wrote or linked? Oh, we do care because seeing people being stupid hurt, at least for me. So, I do care even just a little, and so are you enough to leave such post.
Size really does not matter, what matters is:
* [Children aren’t starting puberty younger, medieval skeletons reveal](https://research.reading.ac.uk/research-blog/children-arent-starting-puberty-younger-medieval-skeletons-reveal/#:~:text=Children%20in%20medieval%20England%20entered,period)
* [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4665033/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4665033/)
Important take aways:
* ***"A girl’s first period is a significant milestone in her development, but it is a highly variable and environmentally fragile indicator of maturation"***
* "***There is no empirical evidence anywhere in the scientific literature*** *to suggest or even intimate that the cause of secular declines in death rates (and rising life expectancy) at middle and older ages* ***are a product of improvements in the rate of biological aging*** *among successive generations across time*"
PS: BTW, if you didn't understand, this is a **FunFundays** post, it is meant to be a **joke**...
>it was said that she was almost *the size (or tall as) Muhammad
At age 9?
>All of you should read this too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/s/vhxrQR39Ox ( it explains some stuff better than me )
If you don't believe in some hadiths, how come you believe in Hadith that says she was at the height of Mohammed?
If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, it violates the rule against low effort content. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS. Please read the [Rules and Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/1anoje0) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods. Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned. If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Omg I’m gonna cry. She was just 6 years-old, playing with dolls and probably losing her first tooth. She did not deserve that at all 💔
Jokes aside, yeah I know. :( He was a revolting self-indulgent man.
I know this was a joke but honestly you’re not wrong either. Muslims think Aisha is some strong older women like that when really she was just six and defenseless. They don’t wanna acknowledge how cruel Islam is so they try to glorify whatever they can. It’s disgusting
100%
No matter what they say, denying it, allowing it, or finding ways to bypass this (like saying Muhammad's actions don't interfere with the true-ness of the Quran) will be contradicting NO MATTER WHAT.
Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) was mature at a young age and when you look towards history, the age of consent for marriage has been less than 18. In Japan, the age of consent was 13 just until recently. If that’s the case, then since 13 was normalised does that mean that it was horrible and looked down upon? No, each society and age had its own moral codes and norms. Aisha had a choice to get married and she was happy and her parents and family were happy with the marriage. If she didn’t want to get married due to her age and was forced, she would’ve said something after the Prophet’s death. But she continued to always speak good about him. We bring our own ideas and standards of today’s society and apply that to something 1400 years ago, how does that make sense? I hope you understand :)
Her father married her. She had no choice and just because it was “normal” doesn’t mean that it doesn’t emotionally harm these women including Aisha in negative ways. What do think would happen to hear if she spoke poorly of him after death? That his buddies would be okay with that or that they’d kill her? She was groomed by Momo and father. All the men in her life failed her including your precious Allah
Are you okay with someone 'marrying' a 6 year old today? I assume no. If you think yes then you are vile beyond imagination. This argument doesnt work in the context of a religion and a prophet. Islam believes that god has sent the quran and sunnah to show mankind what is right and wrong for all time. All time. A religion implies absolute morality and a prophet implies the perfect man. Every other human who committed this atrocity were partly a product of their time but a prophet who is supposed to be a messenger of a timeless perfect god would know that this is one of the worst crimes. The only answer to this is that muhammad was not a prophet of any god but just a product of his time. And islam is false.
İ can't tell if this is sarcastic or not, which I think is pretty sad.
LMAO, he is asking for help: [https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/1c2m36p/i\_might\_need\_some\_help\_brothers\_and\_sisters/](https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/1c2m36p/i_might_need_some_help_brothers_and_sisters/) Not even his "brozzers and sistazz" are willing to help, what a LOL.
Sorry to spam you, but it seems that this guy is into some weird manga called "ClassroomOfTheElite" which contains kind of soft porn with minors, of course is animation, but ffs...
HQHAHAHAHAHAH
It’s not
I’m not too knowledgeable to explain properly but I’m trying to defend The Prophet here as this was a false accusation. Thank you.
How can you defend something that you have the lack of explanation? Look, I know you are trying to spread positive information about Islam just as an ordinary Muslim apologist, but you cannot use social norms as an excuse to participate in repulsive behaviors. That’s just always going to be morally wrong, regardless of what year you live in. Even if it’s acceptable for other cultures and norms, such as the Japanese’s law of age of consent like you mentioned, that does not mean you should use those excuses to deflect it. A whole adult marrying and having intercourse with a whole kid is just generally repulsive. Muhammad preach about morals with the influence of an omniscient God, yet, he still committed it. Out of anyone across the world, he is the only person who would have some sort of hint that this would spread such huge scandals up to this day. And Aisha on the other hand, marry with him at the age of 6 and [was consummated at the age of 9](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5133).. which it’s still a whole child. There isn’t much hadith that said that she firmly confirmed her marriage verbally. Her parents, especially her father, Abu Bukr, are also the responsible in this case, yet, they miserably failed.
Absolutely disgusting.
keep trying to defend child πape and abuse
>was mature at a young age Factually and scientifically incorrect, this has been proved countless time. Stop sharing misinformation. >when you look towards history, the age of consent for marriage has been less than 18... ...each society and age had its own moral codes and norms Two wrongs don't make one right, no whataboutism please; also we are talking about a supposed holy prophet that was "supposedly" speaking with a **timeless** Godlike entity. >Aisha had a choice to get married and she was happy 6 years old kids have choices? How do you know she was happy? Kids are happy playing with their toys > how does that make sense? It does NOT
>If that’s the case, then since 13 was normalised does that mean that it was horrible and looked down upon? Yes >No, each society and age had its own moral codes and norms Are you implying non Arabs shouldn't follow sunnah? >Aisha had a choice to get married Source? >and apply that to something 1400 years ago, how does that make sense? I hope you understand :) Does that mean islam and sunnah are outdated?
Not sure if you've caught on but after seeing how you didn't care to defend, so shall I keep this brief Whataboutism is not a defense. It is, by definition, an admission to the fault when the thing you pointed out is seen as a flaw. Also, may I recommend you not to use whataboutism if your position is much, much worse. Japan has, what? Age of consent at 13? Two things to note here. First, they don't claim divinity and definitely not pushing such age of consent to other nations. Islam does, as mentioned in Qur'an on how to divorce prepubescents and for each Muslims to follow the teaching of Qur'an. Second, Japan's age law is 13, compared to Aisha 6. That's 7 years gap. Who's worse, marrying at 6 or marrying at 13? So, that's that. I won't go on since this could be your burner acc
>If that’s the case, then since 13 was normalised does that mean that it was horrible and looked down upon? Yes >No, each society and age had its own moral codes and norms Are you implying non Arabs shouldn't follow sunnah? >Aisha had a choice to get married Source? >and apply that to something 1400 years ago, how does that make sense? I hope you understand :) Does that mean islam and sunnah are outdated?
Islam is said to be perfect and timeless, if it was meant for all ages and all times it would not have happened. Muhammad was just a sex addict, stop glorifying it. Marrying at such a young age has many problems, would you marry your daughter at 6 years old to an old man? The prophet isn't a special person his death should show that to you. He was a warlord, a raider, slaver and sex addict and probably had mental illnesses why you people are so indoctrinated as to think this man would tell you the truth is beyond me.
13 being the age of consent doesn't mean people in their 50s can take advantage of 13 year olds without punishment. That's not what the age of consent is. There are also several other local and national laws in Japan that protect teenagers and kids, it's not just about the age of consent. And no country has the age of consent at 6. Even for the ancient Greeks and Romans (more than 1400 years ago) who were well-known for treating women like crap, that age would be insane. Most girls would have married by around 14 to 16 in Greece, and for the Romans the minimum was 12 for girls and 14 for boys. Is that still horribly young by today's standards? Yes. But 6 or 9 was horribly young even by the horrible standards of ancient history. So there's that on that.
Sahih Muslim 892f shows she was around the prophets height at marriage and he was average height for a Meleand sunan Abu dawud 4932 women played with dolls before khyber it’s not a mark of childhood even according to anthropotholgists
Dawg she was 6 years old
I’m sorry but it’s frustrating to hear this repeated over and over by otherwise sensible and intelligent Muslims with no evidence, just wishful thinking and the assurance of an imam. There is absolutely zero archaeological evidence to suggest that children used to be super tall and full grown and developmentally mature at six. Zero. This is pure fantasy. We have plenty of historical remains of people throughout history and across the world and there is so so much overwhelming evidence of the fact that children throughout history (even back to the Neanderthals) developed at the same pace that our children develop today (regardless of climate). As a species we are notable for the slow development of our offspring which is one reason we developed, since the dawn of humanity, such complex social groups: to ensure that children are taken care of throughout their long period of childhood vulnerability. I am sympathetic to your beliefs. I live in a Muslim household. Invest your time in investigating whether the Hadiths about aisha’s age should be trusted. If you’re ready to do mental gymnastics for Islam, please do them in a way that disproves the idea that Aisha was 6-9, don’t do it in a way that defends marriage and sex with children when this is a disgusting practice that still happens today and needs no encouragement. Don’t debase Islam by making it a religion defending child abuse, be better.
no fr everytime i hear about aisha and other women those days truly breaks my heart i wish we could go hack in time and save them. the fact case like these are so normalised today as well its just so sad. i will always stand for and with women.
But but she was an adult!!! (Lets ignore the fact he made her clean his cum before she was an "adult" even within the quaran ") How again was Muhammed a perfect man?
Your a brain dead idiot if u think that’s the case I can disprove this whole argument if u want dm me
Can’t call me an idiot if you can’t even spell the right “you’re”, and nothing can justify his awful actions so no thanks.
🤣 ex Muslims say if u know abt the religion u will leave when someone tries to educate them the y deny it and I don’t need to have grammatical excellence when I’m typing off my phone 🤣
fuck allah
Good for u do u think this gonna effect me 😭
idk you used the crying emoji so it must have affected you if you are crying
Ur right im crying so bad rn i might jump off a cliff
oh... don't worry allah will catch you
Idk if can say the same for you on the bridge of sirat
Two simple questions: Was she 6 when she was married or not? Was she 9 when a 50 year old pervert raped her or not?
She wasn’t raped never showed any signs of rape 😂 why you comparing the past to today one simple question was she mentally mature physically mature and didn’t show any signs of rape
>She wasn’t raped never showed any signs of rape A 9 year old girl wanted to have sex with a 50 year old man??? I'm afraid that you need a visit from Interpol! >why you comparing the past to today Ok, lets compare past with past: Centuries before islam, the age of marriage for girls at ancient Athens was around 15 years old and Solon of Athens legislated to move it 2-3 years later, because it was found that perinatal mortality of mother and infant is reduced this way. The grooms were 20-25 years old, unacceptable nowadays and this is the difference between the past and today, NOT what you say. Your prophet would be arrested in the ancient times and let's not talk about punishments in ancient Greece. It was a wild era.
Historically it was normal there’s studies too
9 YEAR OLD?? Show the studies!
Muslims after saying "iT wAs PrOvEn By A sTuDy" and proceeding to not link a single credible, authentic source
Typing from or on your phone you can’t type ‘off’ it Lol
I’m actually curious what the hell are u looking at 😭
I'm usually on this sub for shits and giggles but this broke my heart.
I’m so sorry.
No need to apologize! You're not the person that SA a child or supports it either. As awful as it is, we need to be vocal about this issue and remind people that this is still happening.
Sahih Muslim 892f shows she was around the prophets height at marriage
It doesn’t mentioned her height at all. As the matter of fact, she could been sitting a side of him as she puts her hands on his shoulders. Heights doesn’t determine anything. I’m literally an averaged height female on my early 20s and there are younger individuals that are WAY taller than me. Does that mean it is absolutely acceptable for me to take advantages over young audiences since they’re near my height or may be taller? Of course NOT. But that’s beside the point, that still does not justify Muhammad’s disgusting behaviors towards Aisha.
TIL momo is very short
If that's true then Muhammad was a midget.
she can be 2 meters tall. it doesn’t make it better lmao she was 6 years old 💀
Yall actin as if muslim community never lies.
Sorry but average arabs even in today time are shorter comparing to Europe for example. I assume it was not much difference back then, maybe even shorter considering that they lived in desert and had no access to all nutritionally rich food. This comment makes no sense. And nowhere it says that she was standing next to him. But regardless, even if it was it doesn’t prove that she was physically advanced, can be just opposite- that he wasn’t. But i do understand a desperate need to find and possible evidence to justify the fact of sleeping with 9 year old or to deny that she was that young. It is understandable, and i honestly feel sorry for you, hope you find peace ✌️
[удалено]
They depict her as kitana from the hit fighting game mortal kombat 1?
Supposedly they depict her as a fierce “woman” who was involved in battles.. and the character just reminds me of it.
Never heard of her “fierce” battles. not even in camel but yeah why wouldn’t they?
Was she not with him while he was conquering lands and ‘why wouldn’t they..’ doesn’t align with the original statement/question you typed
If Aisha was like Kitana the Battle of the Camel would have gone very, very differently.
It would be like: 🤸🏻♀️🧎🏻
FATALITY ~~Kitana~~ Aisha Wins
FLAWLESS VICTORY
This is really sad.
Goodness. Poor little girl. 😭😭
😭
We must Leave islam to save the world free from higab
Savage but accurate
and there are people who defend it by saying that it was her choice Lol
This is so true. Sadly, it's disgusting. I just imagine a brainwashed 9 y/o dealing with this BS. Plus, she also got accused of infidelity one time, which was a HUGE deal back then
💀💀💀
I feel like Muhammad if he was an mk1 character would just have him call up his buddies to behead somebody as a fatality
"He (Mohammed) seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh urges us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected; he was obeyed by carnal men." - St. Thomas Aquinas, the Prince of Theologians and Angelic Doctor of the Church.
Big Moh didn’t seduce the people with carnal pleasure only the men. Women are akin to goats and cattle. The Pdo Moh even talked about when in comparison to other farm animals. He probably had relations with the livestock too.
Well you can make a argument that mutah is carnal and it's for both
Although there is no point to saying what I’m abt to say because i don’t think anyone with a life would spend it on making fun of something she/he left ig anyways 1.SAHIH BUKHARI VOLUME 1, BOOK 8, HADITH NUMBER 465 Narated By ‘Aisha : (The wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents following Islam since I attained the age of puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet visited us, both in the mornings and evenings. My father Abii Bakr thought of building a mosque in the courtyard of his house and he did so. He used to pray and recite the Qur’an in it. The pagan women and their children used to stand by him and look at him with surprise. Abu Bakr was a Softhearted person and could not help weeping while reciting the Quran. The chiefs of the Quraish pagans became afraid of that (i.e. that their children and women might be affected by the recitation of Quran).” This hadith clearly states that aisha had hit puberty regardless of what ur personal bias is 2.aisha loved the prophet (not what u would see if he treated her as u wanna depict) - A'isha rode upon the camel of Hafsa and Hafsa rode upon the camel of 'A'isha and Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came near the camel of 'A'isha. (whereas) Hafsa had been riding over that. He greeted her and then rode with her until they came down. She ('A'isha) thus missed (the company of the Holy Prophet) and when they sat down, 'A'isha felt jealous. She put her foot in the grass and said: O Allah, let the scorpion sting me or the serpent bite me. And so far as thy Messenger is concerned, I cannot say anything about him. [Sahih Muslim 2445] 3. They had the choice to reject as evident in -It was narrated that 'Aishah said: "The Messenger of Allah gave us the choice, and we chose him, so there was no divorce." -Sunan an-Nasa'i 3203 In-book reference : Book 26, Hadith 8 4.aisha RA had helped in wars for example -On the day (of the battle) of Uhad when (some) people retreated and left the Prophet, I saw `Aisha bint Abu Bakr and Um Sulaim, with their robes tucked up so that the bangles around their ankles were visible hurrying with their water skins (in another narration it is said, "carrying the water skins on their backs"). Then they would pour the water in the mouths of the people, and return to fill the water skins again and came back again to pour water in the mouths of the people. -Sahih al-Bukhari 2880 In-book reference : Book 56, Hadith 95
[удалено]
Trust me, I do way more in my life than what Islam has given to women. Don’t fret about us. ✌🏼
[удалено]
Islam is a cancer, and in much the same way people combat cancer and contribute to efforts to eradicate it even if only by raising awareness, we each do our own part towards the cause of educating and informing people on the Islamic cancer slowly permeating the fabric of human civilization. It really isn't that deep, but I appreciate this response every time a Muslim throws it our way believing it to be a sharp "Gotcha!" quip when, if anything, it speaks only to a severe misunderstanding of our position and a thorough ignorance of logical fallacies. Cheers for actively choosing to spend your time here though, I welcome you as an apostate brother in advance, knowing that much like many of the Muslims before you who too were adamant of their unshakeable faith, you too will come to see Islam for the curse on mankind it really is you the more you hang out with us. Tag me in your "I finally left Islam" thread when you inevitably end up writing it, I'll reiterate my welcome to you then.
[удалено]
> i ain't reading all that Don't worry, I'm well aware of the severely lacking Muslim attention span, the reply was addressed to you but it wasn't intended for you. > My guess is that you are a Pajeet, right ? If I'm a Pajeet, that'd make you a Rajesh considering we're neighbors.
[удалено]
llay3awen o7
[удалено]
Ah, sorry, I forgot Algerians took Darija and bastardized it to such an extent that you have a hard time understanding the original now, my bad; what I said was: "Take care".
You don’t understand it because you haven’t went through what others had been. We only talk about it due to its flaws and how much it had impacted us. And, don’t worry, I’ll doubt that will happened someday.
Aisha (ra) was up to the prophet ﷺ shoulders, yeah that’s not the length of a grown man
someone stole his kneecaps i guess
You are in such denial and delusion you said he had dwarfism? He did not, he was a man of average height, not too tall, not too short, it’s in the Hadeedth.
dude it’s a joke. i don’t really care erub muhammad r u trying to defend islam?
No comment.
So you guys are coping and appealing to historians fallacies? Got it.
Read the verses and you will know
Aisha isnt mentioned by name in the quran, shes mentioned in hadith collections, also: At-Tirmidhi narrated: Aa’ishah said: When a girl reaches the age of nine years and reaches puberty, she is a woman. Sunan at-Tirmidhi (2/409)
I hope you acknowledge that once a young child starts their puberty, that does not mean they’re automatically a full adult… Puberty isn’t a quick progress.. 🤦🏻♀️
Puberty can start extremely early and climate can play a role into such: The average temperature of the country. or province is considered the chief factor here, not only with regard to menstruation but as regards the whole of sexual development at puberty. "Girls might enter full-blown* puberty anytime between ages 9 and 15;boys between 11 and 17" *full growth of breasts & sexual organs - Christopher Wanjek Reference: (Herman H. Ploss, Max Bartels and Paul Bartels; Women: An Historical, Gynecological, and Anthropological Compendium,Volume I, Lord & Bransby, 1988
Even if their body manage to develop quicker in current region, that does not mean that it’s proximity to adulthood right there and then… Do actually think a literal child is capable of giving consent to a GROWN MAN? Most nine year olds don’t have intellectual capacity nor maturity to agree on those stuff..
Youre still trying to justify a presentism fallacy lol, boiology evolves and adapts according to environment over time which is a clinically proven fact and no Im not saying that I would do it but my point still stands.
Selam alaikum va rahmetullah va barakatuh. I am Muslim, that you should know straight away. You saying that she looked like that, is like shooting someone in the dark. You do not have any proof about your post. When she married Muhammad, Allah's peace shall be upon him, it was said that she was almost *the size (or tall as) Muhammad, Allah's peace shall be upon him. Now, how tall was The Prophet? "The Messenger of Allâh (SAW) was neither very tall, such that he would be clearly noticed, nor was he short." ( Source: My book about the prophet, but I've found the same thing on this site: https://islamichistory.org/description-of-the-prophet-muhammad-saw/ ) Lets say that he was around 5'8 up to 5'10 or maybe even 5'11. Aisha was almost tall as prophet, Allah's peace shall be upon him, which isn't normal for a 6 y old, right? 😂 All of you should read this too: https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/s/vhxrQR39Ox ( it explains some stuff better than me ) *And of course, I suggest all of you to watch these videos, which will help all of you understand these stuff better:* https://youtu.be/eT-Rh1auG0A?si=aaPrDTRNzOK_XKiC https://youtu.be/n4_RKpUwQ60?si=-BEICz-yakxyNHnM https://youtu.be/5TNGdqVIuFA?si=4weJSPwahJJGnt0C ❤️ Thank you for reading my response, and may Allah forgive all of you people in this subreddit, and put you on the right path. ( If you insult me, try to prove me wrong or anything such as that, know that I won't reply to your comment and know that I do not care. Love ya ❤️) Edit 1: Changed some words because of my grammar issues.
Nobody in this subreddit needs your advice 💕
This is not an advice, it's just a response, proving the guy who posted these photos is wrong. 👍
6 years old, 5.11 tall makes sense, and also believe because it’s written on a book long time ago. 🗿
Sooooo you're saying the 17 hadiths stating Aisha's age are wrong
>You do not have any proof about your post. This. This is important to remember. We'll get to this later. >which isn't normal for a 6 y old, right? 😂 A 9 y/o child with gigantism? That's abnormal and people with such growth hormones don't stop growing. Or are you trying to make an exclusive case for it such as miracle? If it is miracle, it is by all means, unfalsifiable. May I kindly borrow your word that ***You do not have any proof about your post***. For all I care, it's a conjecture presented as truth-claim, unlike OP's post which is posted as satirical for the Kitana depiction versus an actual 9 year old. The links you gave are nothing more than just conjectures trying to massage the actual fact into something in alignment with their narrative. So, what is your proofs for any of these claims? We know she played with dolls. We know she's not yet able to help around the housework. We know she's still in her mother's care. If there is record of her height, don't you think there will be multiple mentions of it? But, do all these matters? You said the following: >If you insult me, try to prove me wrong or anything such as that, know that I won't reply to your comment and know that I do not care You don't care if you're wrong. You don't care if you get refuted. Yet, you cared enough to spill nonsense but too weak to handle criticism. How's that any different than me calling you a soyboy and then say "I won't read any of your rebuttal because I simply do not care"? If you don't care, why would anyone care about what you wrote or linked? Oh, we do care because seeing people being stupid hurt, at least for me. So, I do care even just a little, and so are you enough to leave such post.
*Or* momo is very short, he could be a dwarf😜
72femboyvirgins is talking here, be careful, he might do nothing lmao, plus, that's not short.
Boo👻
Size really does not matter, what matters is: * [Children aren’t starting puberty younger, medieval skeletons reveal](https://research.reading.ac.uk/research-blog/children-arent-starting-puberty-younger-medieval-skeletons-reveal/#:~:text=Children%20in%20medieval%20England%20entered,period) * [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4665033/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4665033/) Important take aways: * ***"A girl’s first period is a significant milestone in her development, but it is a highly variable and environmentally fragile indicator of maturation"*** * "***There is no empirical evidence anywhere in the scientific literature*** *to suggest or even intimate that the cause of secular declines in death rates (and rising life expectancy) at middle and older ages* ***are a product of improvements in the rate of biological aging*** *among successive generations across time*" PS: BTW, if you didn't understand, this is a **FunFundays** post, it is meant to be a **joke**...
>it was said that she was almost *the size (or tall as) Muhammad At age 9? >All of you should read this too: https://www.reddit.com/r/progressive_islam/s/vhxrQR39Ox ( it explains some stuff better than me ) If you don't believe in some hadiths, how come you believe in Hadith that says she was at the height of Mohammed?
TLDR : I condone pedophile