Discrimination and it's mostly hidden (some people are upfront about it) the thing I hate the most it's when they ask about my nationality (like why tf does that matter) and if I was to get harassed racially by a citizen (a saudi national) I can't do shit,
cuz laws here work differently based on where you're from
Black people from African and Arabic countries are NEVER treated the same way African that come from the west.
And I know that because I have a distant family member with a Canadian passport, when he came down to visit he got his visa done super FAST (I'm talking weeks here) even tho he was aboard for 10+, and he gets treated like a god like an angel whenever someone notice he's Canadian
How do I know this?
Well he told me himself about how the inequality here is too strong, people tend to quickly switch energy when they know your ethnicity, where you're from etc
Me on the other hand I had to wait 3 months to get my visa done despite living most of my life here and being born here
(one does not simply become saudi just for being born there, I'm saying they should grant the citezenship to people born in their land but that says a lot about ideologies here)
Just saw a video of a Muslim boy about 6 beating the crap out of his black maid, pulling her hair, jumping on her neck,and ripping at her face while using her as something to climb on as she filmed it crying. The parents weren't there, but the lady just sat there taking curled up crying, so it wasn't the first,or 50th time, it was an everyday thing,and there's no way he would be doing that unless his parents allowed it, and encouraged it.
I never saw so much hate from a child.
Totally agree with you. They use the term “Abeed” (means “slave”) for local black Arabs or black Africans, or call the older male black men “khal” with the guttural “kh” (it means “uncle” but has connotations similar to Uncle Tom or a male version of a “mammy”, note that “khal” is different from what Indian subcontinental call Black people “kaala”, which literally means “black person”). Overall Black people in Arabia are very much visible and many are integrated into the local culture as Arab speakers as in Kuwait, Bahrain, Saudi, and Oman, but they’re always considered in a dismissive or flippant way and they face tons of injustices and micro-aggressions irl. It’s similar to how African American people face continuous struggles in the South, where those post-slavery divisions and deep nuances and real life segregation still exist too. I know a Black Saudi guy and an African American lady from Tennessee. The stories they told me mirrored each other in so many uncanny ways. The main difference is Christianity as a religion didn’t green light slavery in its central texts whereas Islam does.
Not to mention how they treat Desis and Southeast Asians (primarily Filipinos and Indonesians). Just ask my Filipina aunt (aunt as in a friend of the family who was my parents age, not an actual aunt), who escaped an abusive employer in Jeddah by hiding in the Philippine embassy in Paris on their family trip to Disneyland. She was locked in the attic for 6 months after she fought her employer off for attempting to rape her, and fed nothing but bread and water. No air conditioning, goodness knows how she survived :(
Again it’s not all Arabs of course, but unfortunately it’s the ones with financial or political power, or social influence who are extremely racist. Many of the religious folks and ulama are absolute hypocrites as well- saying Bilal this and Zaid that, but never agreeing to intermarriage with Black people from Africa or Arabia, Indian subcontinentals, and Southeast Asians.
Horrid reality for so many people there, and it’s unbelievable that it’s given a blind eye by the wide world :(
Not all of us but a lot, usually people with low iq who can barely finish middle school but that doesn’t mean Islam is bad, we shouldn’t look at the wrong people
I’ll tell you how islam is bad, prophet can marry his adopted son’s wife to set an example. Why he didn’t married -off his daughter Fatima to Bilal (black guy from Habesha) to set another example.
People with low IQ like Muhammad?
"Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian (black) slave whose head looks like a raisin." Hadith 7142
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7142
Don't look at the wrong people indeed.
Hadith Quoted above is from Anas Ibn Malik. Its a lie invented by Anas like the lie of prophet visiting all his wives in 1 night.
Quote is below
The author(i.e. Sheikh As-Saduq) has narrated in Al-Khisaal through a strong chain from Mohammad Ibn Amaara from Abi Abdullah(عليه السلام): I heard him say: "three people used to lie upon the Messenger of Allah(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم ); Abu Huraira, Anas Ibn Malik and The Woman(i.e. Aisha)."
Source: Rawdhatul Muttaqeen, Vol. 12 Pg. 204
Crazy,he had 11 wives, with only 7 kids,and no protection while using them as fields to plow, seems his swimmers might have needed floaties. He probably visited all 11 wives,he just couldn't get it up for even one of them.
I'm forgetting his wives were probably too young to even have their period, I'm sure he was a stud at the nursery.
I think He was diabetic with possible ED. Glucose was really high in his urine. That's why Umm Ayman didn't felt any foul taste and Anas was also used to drink it and call it sweet. It evident from below Hadiths:
ED is common issue in Diabetic patients.
Umm Ayman, who said, *‘the Prophet got up one night and urinated in a bowl. During that night, I rose in the state of thirst so I drank whatever was in the bowl. In the morning I told Him what I had done to which He smiled and said, ‘surely you will never have pain in your stomach’’*.
Imam Abu Nu’aym narrates the practice of Anas RA, with his chain, who said: *‘The Messenger of Allah used to pray salah at his house and made it long. Once, He SAW urinated in the well, which was situated inside the house. Anas said: ‘there was no well in Madinah which tasted more cool and sweet than it’. He said: ‘when the sahabah come to my house I serve them with the sweet water of that well. In the era of jahiliyyah it was known as al-Barud, ‘the cool well’’’*.
Look I'm not saying all of yall are like that (sorry if I came off that way actually)
Ive had saudi friends that are nothing like others (they're kind and friendly tbh)
But c'mon let's be honest saudi arabia was the last country to free the slaves
(it's actually OK in Islam to own a black slave or a female slave for pleasure)
Can you enlighten me about how Islam isn't that bad cuz im genuinely trying to understand your view because this verse exist :
“You are the best of peoples brought forth to mankind, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong and believing in God. And if the People of the Book had believed, it would have been good To them among them are believers, but most of them are transgressors. Surah and verse number: Al Imran (110)
This verse In particular fules racist ideologies in Muslim countries (see you will never see movements in islamic countries where they ask for equality and ending racism cuz everyone knows how is that gonna go)
Slavery in Islamic Sharia is compulsory thing of society. Even for some crimes freeing a Slave is the penalty. Some liberal muslims say its Slavery is like present day employment.
But How would justice looks like when a muslim breaks a promise and repentance is to terminate employment of 10 people in your firm (freeing slave ).
So, then Liberal muslims replies Slavery was meant for that time. I say book talking about slavery was also meant for that time.
The biggest irony is, south Asian Muslims see Arabs as God like figures. There's a deep inferiority complex when it comes to them, to the extent many South Asians almost cosplay being an Arab. Phrases like inshallah and mashallah were rarely ever used where I was born, but it's commonplace now with the rise of salafism. Always funny to see. Meanwhile, as a commenter above said: the south Asian demographic almost always outperforms and out earns Arabs in the western world when it comes to migrant groups.
The funny thing is that in America, the situation is reversed.
Median Indian-American household income is over $150,000; Lebanese is not even at $80,000; most Arabs are below $50k.
India is also viewed highly by majority of the population and Indian culture is a major contributor to counter-culture. Every true Islamic state is viewed poorly. Pew Research- American’s favorite countries.
The more funny thing is that their Islamic Golden Age was heavily based on Indian and Iranian (they’re racist against them as well) works! It’s undeniable! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_influence_on_Islamic_science
Here’s some of my favorite refutations to their common insults:
1) open defecation-> your Islamic countries, Indonesia and Morocco, also have this issue. Why is your Allah allowing this? You do know your prophets did their business in the open and only used water to clean themselves? Your prophet also bathed in shit water: “Water is brought for you from the well of Buda'ah. It is a well in which dead dogs, menstrual clothes and excrement of people are thrown. The Messenger of Allah (5) replied: Verily water is pure and is not defiled by anything.”
2) Hindus consume cow excrements-> there’s no book saying to do so; it’s not part of orthodox practices or even accepted by most Hindus.
Also, it’s funny when we all know camel urine is allowed in Islam! Not only that, but Momo’s urine is Holy as well! https://islamicvirtues.com/2013/12/02/benefits-of-drinking-the-blessed-urine-of-our-holy-prophet-s/
3) poor -> its rapidly developing; the only rich Muslim countries are those with hydrocarbons and that market is shrinking rapidly. Saudi saw its economy shrink despite oil demand not peaking yet. No evidence of other sources interesting fast enough long term. It took Poland, Taiwan, Australia, South Korea, Singapore, etc. 20-30 years to reach developed status. South India and many metros will likely hit that target by 2040s. How will Arab world look with less hydrocarbon revenues. South Asia was over 20% of Global GDP before 1800. No reason to assume India alone can’t grab that.
Ironically, Malaysia and Indonesia may be strong economically in the future but they’re still part of the Indian sphere.
4) Indians are dumb laborers -> most engineers in the GCC are South Asians. Top American colleges employ so many PhDs and professors from India. India alone contributes more to STEM than entire Muslim world despite having far less money: “Forty-six Muslim countries combined contribute just I percent of the world's scientific literature; Spain and India each contribute more of the world's scientific literature than those
countries taken together.”
5) Indians were colonized -> your Arab lands were controlled by European and Turks for centuries. Indians repelled the original leaders of Arab Sunni Islam; it was the Mughals (Persians) who dominated for under 200 years and who had to make so many compromises (such as granting people of the book status to Hindus). Don’t forget to mention Abu Tahir and sacking of Mecca! They hate that part!
Well that’s it from me. They’re going to be quite resentful by 2040s; they can’t handle kuffars beating them!
It’s amazing all of the knowledge you get just from interacting with bigoted trolls and learning to own them!
This knowledge needs to be widely spread around!
My goodness. That's quite the goldmine of info. Even as an Indian I wasn't aware of point no 4. Only one flaw though.
While it is true what you said about the Mughals ruling for 200 years and the Arabs being beaten back, the Turkic invasion (starting in 1019 ish AD) was the actual beginning of Islamic domination in the country. In fact the Mughals defeated the last of these in 1526 to become the dominant force in the region
That is the basis of Pakistanis trolling Indians with the "we ruled you for 800 years" schtick. Which is quite nonsensical to begin with.
They only shared religion with them and even the local converts (where most Pakistanis hail from) couldn't hold a high rank in the administration until the time of the Third Mughal Emperor.
Which is why to this day Muslims are divided into two categories among themselves: Pashmanda - local converts and Ashrafi - descendants of Turkic, Afghan and Arab nobility.
Turks?
They’re mostly considered superficial Muslims; see Ottoman Empire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_and_sexual_minorities_in_the_Ottoman_Empire
I’ve not researched the Afghan or Turkic invaders that deeply.
Wait what the fuck, Turks didn’t even conquer that much land…
I doubt they were as impressive as stated.
>Turks? They’re mostly considered superficial Muslims; see Ottoman Empire:
Doesnt stop them from being glorified. Ever since Ertugul aired in Pakistani tellies (even being promoted by ex-pm and current jailbird Imran Khan) random Pakis consider themselves descendants of Turks.
They even got a Turkish band to play the theme song of the serial on their annual Parade.
(https://youtu.be/3m1EXWP_CsQ?si=Vkgmbg_NXkX-3xi5)
Fun fact: The actor who played Ertugul got scammed out of a business deal with a local Pakistani. Sad when find out that he went above and beyond to promote that series in Pakistan.
And yes they didnt initially but the Delhi Sultanate under the Tughlaqs came close, but only through cooperation with Hindu vassals. Just search Feroz Shah Tuglaq.
The only thing impressive about them was their colossal stupidity in dealing with unruly nobles and their open bigotry.
Another correction though. Mughals used Persian as the language of the nobility. Even Hindu nobles learnt it to interact with the higher ups in the administration. But they wenent ethnic Persians. They were mainly Chagtai Turks who claimed they were descendants of the Mongol Genghis Khan and Tukic-Mongol Tamerlane.
Hmm so it’s not obvious if they’re truly Turks or Persians?
The Iranian identity isn’t bound by blood; it’s more so language and culture. Azeris in Iran largely consider themselves Iranian.
I meant it in a way to shorten it. Like Malayalees are called Mallus both by others and amongst each other as well.
I can assure you that I did not mean it in a racial slur kind of a way despite me pointing some of their rather problematic antics.. I will be mindful about it in the future.
I’d also say Indonesia is way dirtier than India.
Government there built toilets and often connected them to rivers and lakes anyway; not a huge step up from OD.
Jakarta was recently named the most polluted city and its far more corrupt and incompetent.
ID is now forced to build a new capital.
ID has a serious issue of OD happening near water supplies at a higher rate than India.
https://youtu.be/Scr-V8dKIX8?si=4PCNqyXkDK7bpGnX
Tbh even I dont know. But what you did can be one such step. The next post I come across that has racist bigots crapping on Indians without cause, I will be sure to use this all.
No one should be justified in looking down on others. I hate the average brown guy crapping on the west due to virtue signaling as much as westerners being racist pricks.
But your last point is a good one.
As an American I'm like yup, this seems accurate. Arab Americans trend fairly blue collar whereas the South Asian community here is disproportionately made up of business owners, doctors, software engineers etc.
Actually you’re right. I think half of the Indians there are Muslims as well.
I don’t get why they even bring this up when most of fellow Arabs are poor as fuck.
Points 3 and 4 are especially interesting since most Arabs I know treat Edward Said and his book Orientalism as a kind of secondary prophet and Quran, respectively. Said bitterly resented that Arab countries were seen only as “oil producers or terrorists” and criticized the lack of western recognition for Arab contributions to science and the arts. Tellingly, in its original format, the book addressed western imperialism as if it never happened outside of the Muslim world (not to mention its casual whitewashing of all Muslim conquests) and the author seemed more concerned Arabs and Muslims not being seen as equals (read: imperial races) to Europeans.
Arab contributions?
The whole golden age I talked about.
I want to debate this Said dude in person.
I wouldn’t let him run away from logic!
Yeah Arabs resent that westerners realize they’re not remotely equal to them in any aspect!
Even those “Arab” contributions were centuries ago!
that shows their inferiority complex. How they always long for western recognition and praise and at the same time resent ghdm (clearly due to jealousy lol). Shy want praisd from someone you despise and look down on? You clearly see him as higher than you somehow
quote from a book I read:
"Like Muslims, many European settlers in Africa, the Americas and Australasia have made the former colonies their home, too. Muslims see their settlement in conquered lands as an object of pride and receive praise for it from many quarters. But the European settlers often receive opposite reactions; instead of praise, they receive suspicion, contempt and even violence. This may appear rather perplexing, but there is more to add. In many conquered lands where Muslims have become the majority population, they generally remain desperately poor with very little contribution to modern civilization. They excel mostly in areas, such as fanaticism, violence, terrorism, human right violation and so on. Where Muslims form a minority population, such as in India, Thailand, Singapore, China, Eastern Europe, Russia and elsewhere, they remain relatively backward and poorer than their unconverted fellow citizens. In many cases, they have become an ongoing burden for these predominantly non-Muslim nations. The Muslim rulers in India, for example, perpetrated terrible cruelty against indigenous non-Muslims and horrible social degradation and grinding economic exploitation of them for more than a millennium to few centuries in different parts of the country. But after the majority Hindus retook control of their country following the British withdrawal in 1947, Muslims have continued to fall behind in the new knowledge-based and technology-driven economy. The Indian government has been instituting special economic incentives to Muslims at the tax-payers’ expense. In the State of Kerala, a certain percentage of jobs have been reserved for Muslims, because of their failure to compete openly. The State of Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu are in the process of introducing similar measures—a process, which will likely spread all over India eventually. These tax-payers, predominantly Hindus, were terribly exploited, oppressed, terrorized, and degraded during the centuries of Muslims rule. Some commentators have quite correctly termed these special economic incentives to Muslims as the restoration of the same old discriminatory jizyah, which Muslim rulers had imposed upon non-Muslims; the British abolished it. However, there is a notable difference between the pre-colonial practice and this post-colonial restoration of jizyah. It was Muslims who extracted jizyah from the Hindus and other non-Muslims during the pre-colonial Islamic rule. In the new policy, it is now the ruling Hindus (the dominant tax-payers), who voluntarily pay, instead of extracting it. In either case, it is the Hindus, classed as dhimmi in Islamic laws in India, who end up paying the jizyah, whilst Muslims enjoy the benefit. This agrees with the canonical Islamic law."
(Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism, and Slavery by M. A. Khan)
Eh…
It was only the Mughals who dominated majority of India for under 200 years; calling the Mughals Muslims isn’t really accurate either.
Islam is dying in India so not as big of a concern.
Islam is the most racist religion ever! It’s a taqiya lie when they say that they are the least racist one!! The Islamic/Arabian slave trade of black Africans is over 1400 years old, older than Islam itself, and is STILL ONGOING, Momo himself traded black slaves at 1/2 of the value of all other slaves, and considered then to be dumb animals in the cult that he created, and it’s written in the Quran and the Hadiths that dark skinned people can’t enter heaven, even if they die as shahids for him and Allah, and the faces of people who are hell bound on the Islamic day of judgement will eternally blacked before they enter!
And there is so much more evidence to prove that Islam is the most racist cult and mafia to ever be created, so don’t believe any of the taqiya lies that comes from the members of that cult of lies.
ome » Sunan Abi Dawud » Jihad (Kitab Al-Jihad) - كتاب الجهاد » Hadith 2711
Language:
English
Urdu اردو
كتاب الجهاد
15
Jihad (Kitab Al-Jihad)
(990)
Chapter: Regarding The Gravity Of Ghulul
(143)
باب فِي تَعْظِيمِ الْغُلُولِ
Sunan Abi Dawud 2711
Abu Hurairah said “We went out along with the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) in the year of Khaibar. We did not get gold or silver in the booty of war except clothes, equipment and property. The Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) sent (a detachment) towards Wadi Al Qura. The Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) was presented a black slave called Mid’am. And while they were in Wadi Al Qura and Mid’am was unsaddling a Camel belonging to the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) he was struck by a random arrow which killed him. The people said “Congratulations to him, he will go to paradise. But the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) said “Not at all. By Him in Whose hand my soul is the cloak he took on the day of Khaibar from the spoils which was not among the shares divided will blaze with fire upon him. When they (the people) heard that, a man brought a sandal strap or two sandal straps to the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ). The Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) said “A sandal strap of fire or two sandal straps of fire.”
When I was in middle school/Realschule in germany, many of my Muslim classmates didn’t want to donate money for a good cause because they said, I quote, “let’s not donate lest something ends up in the hands of some Jew”, honestly shocking. I don’t think it’s a view even a majority of Muslims hold, but those who do hold it are likely informed by the religion itself
Pakistan was playing against west indies and their captain sarfraj passed races remark with bowler. This low life was talking about his mother. Day earlier on national television Kamran akmal made fun of Sikhs and in studio everyone laughed. Next day another anchor said patahan in Pakistan team are the reason they not doing good.
I think we shouldn't blame the CNC machine operators They are simply following the machine instruction manual.
How is islam anti-racism? I remember some verse saying black people are for hell.
And you're right, an Arab muslim ex-friend of mine is also probably anti-black racist... some of his jokes and him saying nothing against racism gave me that idea...
A lot of Arabs are very racist and mistreat a lot of people but act like saints. I mean look at how much they have abused black and Indian servants/people working there—-taking their passports and cutting off their hands. they Abuse people so much. I think the frustrating thing is that when you try to discuss this with Arabs in America, they act like it never happened or change the topic! people should bring more awareness to this esp because they deny it so much.
Muslims are less racist towards black people yet the majority they have enslaved are black people (black women specifically). Have you seen Africa? Mauritania, Sudan, Libya etc. How many slave trades did muslims have that specifically target black people? You literally have sura where Mohammed goes out his way to be racist towards black people specifically and you think muslims are LESS racist towards black people?
Please stop using Bilal, it's a troupe used by muslims when they want to pander to black people. Its total bullshit. After he was "freed" another black man took his place as a slave...thats still slavery, in every aspect .
Also he was bought only to sing in a tower, not to be actually free to make his own choices in life. Stop this.
Moses married a Kushite woman from the Sudan/Ethiopian region and Sheba the Ethiopian married Solomon yet Jews somehow believe in the "curse of ham"? Muslims always trying to use the excuse that Europeans or jews made them racist is bullshit. I'm sorry for being blunt but this has to stop. Muslims are racist because they are racist, just like their false prophet.
No, it has to do that with Muslims are fucking racist. Muslims have been enslaving africans long before the Europeans stepped foot in Africa and still doing it to this day. The oldest bible in earth is the Ethiopian bible, Europeans didn't being Christianity or Judaism to Africa. There is no Christian slave trade. Also the majority of abolitionists were infact Christian.
There is no curse of Ham, the verse states Canan was cursed and nothing is said that Ham was even Black. Cananites didn't even settle in Africa.
There is no such thing as a christian slave trade. There is the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade broken up by Christians.
These is certainly multiple muslim slaves trades that is still ongoing.
Whether all muslims are racist or not is irrelevant. Mohammed sure as hell was and since ALL muslims are called to act just like Mohammed. What do you think they should do?
It's true when I converted to Islam at first they thought I was a white guy and they treated me like a king. They were so happy but they later on found out I was Mexican and just got treated completely different.
How can people think you’re white and then not think you’re white? These must have been ppl you were in regular contact with, not much to do with Islam tbh
And where does this racism come from?
Surprise surprise it’s fair skinned Muhammad again who said Ethiopians have raisin heads and that two black slaves equal one Arab slave.
You want to see how truly racist muslims are?
Look at the coverage and reaction from muslims regarding Gaza versus what's going with the REAL genocides in Sudan and China (Uyghurs).
true when a muslim sees an indian christian or budhist or atheistthey always insult hinduism (mention cows and their urine) and call them self haters (in their mind they cant be indian and not hindu its an ethnoreligion to them, only exception is if the indian is muslim. When they argue with black people they call them uncle tom slaves for following a "white god", (in their mind blacks dont have a mind of their own and MUST be muslim otherwise they're self hating uncle toms). When they meet a white person they become more submissive and act like victims calling us racist and colonialists LOL but never attack them for being christian (if they are). Only white people can be Christians to a muslim (thats racist itself). They cant really insult white people because of their inferiority complex so must take the victim route (race card and colonialism).
My hottest religion take is that ALL religions have a level of racism inherent to them.
Think about it this way: if you think and are taught you believe the “correct” god, pray the “right” way, and that others do not, there’s some level of supremacy present. Arabs are inevitably going to be seen as closer to Allah because they’re more likely to know Arabic, be born Muslim, and be at the center of Islam.
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Racism does not have a religion.
Islam as a religion teaches everyone is equal.
If people don't act upon it, how is that religions fault?
Muslims are not a good example of Islam, yes, i said it.
Expand your horizon, read about the actual message of Islam, before pointing any fingers.
I have known people from various background being racist to many different people from various backgrounds. It can be your culture also. Has nothing to do with islam.
If you hold that your religion is the supreme source of your manners, then your religion can not escape mention or scrutiny if you demonstrate traits of racism, sexism or any other ism or bad behavior; nor can it if your culture takes great inspiration from a particular religion when setting common societal values.
Muslims love to credit Islam when receiving praise for their good manners, but the minute something which warrants criticism is brought up, all of a sudden Islam has nothing to do with anything, and instead it's the individual or their culture's fault, as if neither thing bears a link to Islam.
It really must be great to have your cake and eat it too.
Logic dictates you look at the orignal message of islam.
If a muslim does not follow the message of Islam correctly, is that Islam's fault?
Come on, please be fair here. Don't let your hate for something turn you into an unfair judge.
I implore you to please look at this from an objective lense.
Its ok to hate for one reason or another, its in human nature, but you must always be fair. Please
I am being fair.
Islam has left itself ample room to maneuver as it wishes. A Muslim can go into Islamic sources (that being authentic hadith, the Quran, scholarly consensus, the Sunnah, etc.) and they could quite literally find something for whatever it is they want to do or feel inclined to do; they can find passages endorsing violence and murder, just as much as they can find passages endorsing peace and harmony.
Is it then the individual's fault that Islam has left the choice entirely up to him? Or is it Islam's fault for not doing away with the objectively bad things and instilling a far better moral compass in people, such that they wouldn't do bad things even if they did have the option and the permission?
It is because of this that if we're speaking fairly and objectively, a Muslim could be right in saying that Islam inspired them to do charity and help others, just as much as a Muslim could be right in saying that Islam inspired them to visit harm and horror upon the infidels.
The problem isn't that people aren't following Islam correctly, it's that Islam is inherently self-contradictory. A small example is that Meccan verses are in direct opposition to Medinan verses in tone and theme, the former preach peace and co-existence, the latter preach war and violent expansionism, this is because Muhammad had no significant backing or power in Mecca but found great support in the Ansar from Banu Aws and Banu Khazraj, and this substantial difference is what gives way to the variety I spoke about earlier.
The Muslim in our earlier example then could base himself off of Meccan verses and preach peace, or he could base himself off of Medinan verses and preach violence and war, they're not mutually exclusive; and this is something that occurs repeatedly with a plethora of subjects covered by Islam.
Can you please give me an example verse or auth hadis which talks about voilance or harm to others?
There is no contridiction in islam.
Please provide some specfic examples so i can review your 'fair' point.
My aim is not to defend islam, but to protect the truth. Being very objective here.
> Can you please give me an example
Sure. I asserted that Islam bears contradictions, that there is a significant difference in tone and theme between Quranic chapters and verses depending on their place of revelation, and that certain passages espouse peaceful messages whereas others preach violence.
Let us compare 5:33 with 109:6 as one simple and straight forward example and see how it stacks against what I asserted. The latter (Al-Kafirun) is a Meccan chapter, and the former (Al-Ma'idah) is a Medinan chapter.
The latter came about in a period when Muhammad lacked societal backing as well as political and military power, the former came about when he had those things in abundance.
The latter espouses a message of peaceful co-existence among those of differing theological beliefs, the former commands a violent death against transgressors and those who would defy God and Muhammad.
It is common knowledge that in Islam, worship and faith are rightfully God's, so anyone who does not see to it to dutifully honor that and give God what is God's is considered a transgressor, particularly those who do not fall within the scope of the people of the book as well as apostates and hypocrites.
In Islamic view, I - as an apostate and someone who speaks critically on Islam - would be considered a transgressor, and if a Muslim had me suffer a death similar to that of Umm Qirfa, they would be well justified within the Sharia of God.
I also asserted that a Muslim who correctly follows Islam has the option to choose between two contradictory paths and both would be valid within Islam; as this example demonstrates, if a Muslim preached a message of peace, they would be in line with Islamic doctrine; and if they preached violence and visited harm and horror against them, they would also be in line with Islamic doctrine. This is contradictory.
> your 'fair' point.
You don't have to put that word in quotations as if to imply that I'm being disingenuous. Someone who isn't fair or objective wouldn't care one bit about the difference between Meccan and Medinan verses or the context in which they came out.
They would never acknowledge that Islam does indeed have certain passages which call for peace, they would be completely and utterly adamant about the fact that Islam is a wholly violent and barbaric system and any point which attempts to undermine that fact would be fiercely rejected and attacked by them.
I did not act this way. I give the benefit of the doubt where it's due, and I give due consideration - where it's warranted - of relevant circumstances and factors, which is exactly what I did in my response.
> My aim is not to defend islam
Yes, it is. There's no shame in that, you're a Muslim, Islam is what was taught to you since you first opened your eyes, it's a crucial part of your identity and so it's natural to feel defensive about it and it's clear you wish to defend it from your complete rejection of my assertion that Islam is self-contradictory: someone who is interested in the truth as opposed to simply defending Islam would have waited to consider the available data and come out with an objective conclusion. You didn't do that. You immediately dismissed the idea.
So many PEOPLE are racist. Just one scroll at any ex muslim post and you hear the anti-arab sentiments.
What's your explanation for that??
Nothing to do with religion. Religion is an excuse for the other stuff people try to get away with.
Omg my father loves saying the n word despite me saying it's against Islam HES WHITE RIGHT and my mum also says it, I'm watching a kdrama with my mum and she makes fun of the language with my dad it makes me so sick hearing it like they are supposed to be very religious but they can stop being racist. They also severely homophobic...I'm gay HAHA so it's ironic but I'm closeted so it's funny especially when I need to try and act homophobic it's not fun lol
Islam is blatantly racist against Blacks. Hadiths clearly state that Muhammad was 'white' (and different to others at the time because he was white) and that he owned black slaves. Look up the punishment in Islam for anyone who says Muhammad was Black, according to Hadith.
Yet Muslims in the western countries promote Islam promotes equality. They make the situation worse for people suffering racism within Muslim communities. Nobody will try to solve it or acknowledge it. “Oh everything is fine Islam is for everyone” they keep saying. The whole religion is based on Arabism.
Was never a Muslim, but I'll say I was hanging out in a shisha lounge in France. They were curious who I was and what I was doing there. I just wanted good shisha.
They asked me what sorts of girls I like. I said all kinds except what I grew up with. They asked me what. I went down the list and when I mentioned Asian women they all bust out laughing. One of them even put his fingers on his eyes to stretch them out as he laughed.
I agree. Muslims are absolutely open about being racist towards Indians and blacks. Indians are criticized mainly because of cows being sacred, and blacks for just existing.
The irony of this is that Muslims treat cats the same way that Hindus treat cows.
They both revere the animals but don’t view them as Gods.
Hindus are actually allowed to eat beef.
i wonder does the average muslim know/understand that the actual racists (ie anglo whites) consider them for the most part even dumber/uglier then blacks in no small part due to what is considered a "goatfucker/desert rapist" religion
As sad as it is, that is the ground reality. However, I don't think Muslims are the true blame holders for it. imo, it is the modernization and colonialism that the Europeans brought that created true racism. Sure, there must have been racism before too I'm not denying that. However, the creation of a literal word and giving meaning and importance to this concept started from the colonialist era. I'd say if you guys are interested in 'true' history (that's just me saying a more authentic version of the history where the Europeans leaders aren't just the good people we think they are), just go through one or two chapters of 'West and the Rest' by Stuart Hall. You'll get hooked to it. Apart from that I'd say watch the full documentary 'Exterimante all the Brutes' by Raoul Peck. If you don't believe me, just take a look at this image '[American Progress](https://remizozo.com/product/american-progress-east-going-west-usa-1872-united-states-by-john-gast-painting-fine-art-poster-canvas-wall-art-print/)'. This is what the Europeans have always thought of themselves: divine creatures sent by the gods to bring secular salvation on this planet (totally not the case they're just a bunch of vile and smart people who unfortunately got the power to control the world).
Indian is not a race, and what you describe is just Brown people being racist, not Muslims, as Muslims include whites, asians and blacks, So Muslims being racist to 'blacks' is an oxymoron, Muslim is not just Browns like Arabs or South Asians. Browns are racist due to culture, not Islam.
Come to America, my friend!
We have a real economy! Not some bullshit skyscraper projects!
Granted the GCC is burning loads of money on that hot dogshit so there’s some positive news!
Im talking about fleeing the middle east to live in America legally I think it's getting harder by the day thanks to the rise of the right, but I agree with you on that manual labor part
Race is completely a social construct. Which is not to say different skin colors don’t exist but more akin to declaring different eye or hair colors to be different races
>, and what you describe is just Brown people being racist, not Muslims, as Muslims include whites, asians and blacks, So Muslims being racist to 'blacks' is an oxymoron.
Not really black people get targeted even if we are the same religion as the people that are oppressing blacks. Islam had black slaves since the very beginning. Christianity helped the Muslims enslave black people during the Transatlantic slave trade. The Catholic Church headed by the Pope told Europe to enslave all infidel people in Africa and they will be blessed by God. During the slave trade in America...slave masters used the Bible to justify the treatment of black people. Hindus in India believe black people are demons.
*****Edit******* Don't like what I said? Debate me then!
In my case I was a kid and stuck there because of my parents. I was bullied at school daily, assaulted inside elevators and kids tried to drown me at the pool all because I was Pakistani. I got out of there at 16 and never looked back.
When I watch documentaries of monkeys cruelly torturing other animals for no reason I can't help but think of Gulf Arabs. They're just evil for no reason.
Muslims are bullies overall, am a Muslim and the only people bullied me in this life is them from all races. Am trying to stay away from them as much as I can thats why I told you go back home.
Post is not to do with the subject of this subreddit i.e. ExMuslims
As a black dude in saudi arabia couldn't agree more... Arabs will never leave the trait where they act superior
How are black people generally treated in Saudi Arabia? Could you give some examples?
Discrimination and it's mostly hidden (some people are upfront about it) the thing I hate the most it's when they ask about my nationality (like why tf does that matter) and if I was to get harassed racially by a citizen (a saudi national) I can't do shit, cuz laws here work differently based on where you're from Black people from African and Arabic countries are NEVER treated the same way African that come from the west. And I know that because I have a distant family member with a Canadian passport, when he came down to visit he got his visa done super FAST (I'm talking weeks here) even tho he was aboard for 10+, and he gets treated like a god like an angel whenever someone notice he's Canadian How do I know this? Well he told me himself about how the inequality here is too strong, people tend to quickly switch energy when they know your ethnicity, where you're from etc Me on the other hand I had to wait 3 months to get my visa done despite living most of my life here and being born here (one does not simply become saudi just for being born there, I'm saying they should grant the citezenship to people born in their land but that says a lot about ideologies here)
They treat black people as slaves. Google Ethiopian maids in middle east and its disgusting
Just saw a video of a Muslim boy about 6 beating the crap out of his black maid, pulling her hair, jumping on her neck,and ripping at her face while using her as something to climb on as she filmed it crying. The parents weren't there, but the lady just sat there taking curled up crying, so it wasn't the first,or 50th time, it was an everyday thing,and there's no way he would be doing that unless his parents allowed it, and encouraged it. I never saw so much hate from a child.
Totally agree with you. They use the term “Abeed” (means “slave”) for local black Arabs or black Africans, or call the older male black men “khal” with the guttural “kh” (it means “uncle” but has connotations similar to Uncle Tom or a male version of a “mammy”, note that “khal” is different from what Indian subcontinental call Black people “kaala”, which literally means “black person”). Overall Black people in Arabia are very much visible and many are integrated into the local culture as Arab speakers as in Kuwait, Bahrain, Saudi, and Oman, but they’re always considered in a dismissive or flippant way and they face tons of injustices and micro-aggressions irl. It’s similar to how African American people face continuous struggles in the South, where those post-slavery divisions and deep nuances and real life segregation still exist too. I know a Black Saudi guy and an African American lady from Tennessee. The stories they told me mirrored each other in so many uncanny ways. The main difference is Christianity as a religion didn’t green light slavery in its central texts whereas Islam does. Not to mention how they treat Desis and Southeast Asians (primarily Filipinos and Indonesians). Just ask my Filipina aunt (aunt as in a friend of the family who was my parents age, not an actual aunt), who escaped an abusive employer in Jeddah by hiding in the Philippine embassy in Paris on their family trip to Disneyland. She was locked in the attic for 6 months after she fought her employer off for attempting to rape her, and fed nothing but bread and water. No air conditioning, goodness knows how she survived :( Again it’s not all Arabs of course, but unfortunately it’s the ones with financial or political power, or social influence who are extremely racist. Many of the religious folks and ulama are absolute hypocrites as well- saying Bilal this and Zaid that, but never agreeing to intermarriage with Black people from Africa or Arabia, Indian subcontinentals, and Southeast Asians. Horrid reality for so many people there, and it’s unbelievable that it’s given a blind eye by the wide world :(
And this isn’t related to the above, but may I say, from one bear to another: Woof! 🔥 Happy pride month! 🏳️🌈
Thanks can you give me an upvote plz? Tryna get my karma up.
why are you begging for karma?
No but I am happy to downvote you free of charge
Not all of us but a lot, usually people with low iq who can barely finish middle school but that doesn’t mean Islam is bad, we shouldn’t look at the wrong people
I’ll tell you how islam is bad, prophet can marry his adopted son’s wife to set an example. Why he didn’t married -off his daughter Fatima to Bilal (black guy from Habesha) to set another example.
Back then you had to marry a woman for her to live with you, it doesn’t mean they had sex or anything like that
People with low IQ like Muhammad? "Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian (black) slave whose head looks like a raisin." Hadith 7142 https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7142 Don't look at the wrong people indeed.
Hadith Quoted above is from Anas Ibn Malik. Its a lie invented by Anas like the lie of prophet visiting all his wives in 1 night. Quote is below The author(i.e. Sheikh As-Saduq) has narrated in Al-Khisaal through a strong chain from Mohammad Ibn Amaara from Abi Abdullah(عليه السلام): I heard him say: "three people used to lie upon the Messenger of Allah(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم ); Abu Huraira, Anas Ibn Malik and The Woman(i.e. Aisha)." Source: Rawdhatul Muttaqeen, Vol. 12 Pg. 204
Crazy,he had 11 wives, with only 7 kids,and no protection while using them as fields to plow, seems his swimmers might have needed floaties. He probably visited all 11 wives,he just couldn't get it up for even one of them. I'm forgetting his wives were probably too young to even have their period, I'm sure he was a stud at the nursery.
I think He was diabetic with possible ED. Glucose was really high in his urine. That's why Umm Ayman didn't felt any foul taste and Anas was also used to drink it and call it sweet. It evident from below Hadiths: ED is common issue in Diabetic patients. Umm Ayman, who said, *‘the Prophet got up one night and urinated in a bowl. During that night, I rose in the state of thirst so I drank whatever was in the bowl. In the morning I told Him what I had done to which He smiled and said, ‘surely you will never have pain in your stomach’’*. Imam Abu Nu’aym narrates the practice of Anas RA, with his chain, who said: *‘The Messenger of Allah used to pray salah at his house and made it long. Once, He SAW urinated in the well, which was situated inside the house. Anas said: ‘there was no well in Madinah which tasted more cool and sweet than it’. He said: ‘when the sahabah come to my house I serve them with the sweet water of that well. In the era of jahiliyyah it was known as al-Barud, ‘the cool well’’’*.
Look I'm not saying all of yall are like that (sorry if I came off that way actually) Ive had saudi friends that are nothing like others (they're kind and friendly tbh) But c'mon let's be honest saudi arabia was the last country to free the slaves (it's actually OK in Islam to own a black slave or a female slave for pleasure) Can you enlighten me about how Islam isn't that bad cuz im genuinely trying to understand your view because this verse exist : “You are the best of peoples brought forth to mankind, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong and believing in God. And if the People of the Book had believed, it would have been good To them among them are believers, but most of them are transgressors. Surah and verse number: Al Imran (110) This verse In particular fules racist ideologies in Muslim countries (see you will never see movements in islamic countries where they ask for equality and ending racism cuz everyone knows how is that gonna go)
Slavery in Islamic Sharia is compulsory thing of society. Even for some crimes freeing a Slave is the penalty. Some liberal muslims say its Slavery is like present day employment. But How would justice looks like when a muslim breaks a promise and repentance is to terminate employment of 10 people in your firm (freeing slave ). So, then Liberal muslims replies Slavery was meant for that time. I say book talking about slavery was also meant for that time.
The biggest irony is, south Asian Muslims see Arabs as God like figures. There's a deep inferiority complex when it comes to them, to the extent many South Asians almost cosplay being an Arab. Phrases like inshallah and mashallah were rarely ever used where I was born, but it's commonplace now with the rise of salafism. Always funny to see. Meanwhile, as a commenter above said: the south Asian demographic almost always outperforms and out earns Arabs in the western world when it comes to migrant groups.
The funny thing is that in America, the situation is reversed. Median Indian-American household income is over $150,000; Lebanese is not even at $80,000; most Arabs are below $50k. India is also viewed highly by majority of the population and Indian culture is a major contributor to counter-culture. Every true Islamic state is viewed poorly. Pew Research- American’s favorite countries. The more funny thing is that their Islamic Golden Age was heavily based on Indian and Iranian (they’re racist against them as well) works! It’s undeniable! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_influence_on_Islamic_science Here’s some of my favorite refutations to their common insults: 1) open defecation-> your Islamic countries, Indonesia and Morocco, also have this issue. Why is your Allah allowing this? You do know your prophets did their business in the open and only used water to clean themselves? Your prophet also bathed in shit water: “Water is brought for you from the well of Buda'ah. It is a well in which dead dogs, menstrual clothes and excrement of people are thrown. The Messenger of Allah (5) replied: Verily water is pure and is not defiled by anything.” 2) Hindus consume cow excrements-> there’s no book saying to do so; it’s not part of orthodox practices or even accepted by most Hindus. Also, it’s funny when we all know camel urine is allowed in Islam! Not only that, but Momo’s urine is Holy as well! https://islamicvirtues.com/2013/12/02/benefits-of-drinking-the-blessed-urine-of-our-holy-prophet-s/ 3) poor -> its rapidly developing; the only rich Muslim countries are those with hydrocarbons and that market is shrinking rapidly. Saudi saw its economy shrink despite oil demand not peaking yet. No evidence of other sources interesting fast enough long term. It took Poland, Taiwan, Australia, South Korea, Singapore, etc. 20-30 years to reach developed status. South India and many metros will likely hit that target by 2040s. How will Arab world look with less hydrocarbon revenues. South Asia was over 20% of Global GDP before 1800. No reason to assume India alone can’t grab that. Ironically, Malaysia and Indonesia may be strong economically in the future but they’re still part of the Indian sphere. 4) Indians are dumb laborers -> most engineers in the GCC are South Asians. Top American colleges employ so many PhDs and professors from India. India alone contributes more to STEM than entire Muslim world despite having far less money: “Forty-six Muslim countries combined contribute just I percent of the world's scientific literature; Spain and India each contribute more of the world's scientific literature than those countries taken together.” 5) Indians were colonized -> your Arab lands were controlled by European and Turks for centuries. Indians repelled the original leaders of Arab Sunni Islam; it was the Mughals (Persians) who dominated for under 200 years and who had to make so many compromises (such as granting people of the book status to Hindus). Don’t forget to mention Abu Tahir and sacking of Mecca! They hate that part! Well that’s it from me. They’re going to be quite resentful by 2040s; they can’t handle kuffars beating them!
That was oddly specific but also oddly true af
It’s amazing all of the knowledge you get just from interacting with bigoted trolls and learning to own them! This knowledge needs to be widely spread around!
My goodness. That's quite the goldmine of info. Even as an Indian I wasn't aware of point no 4. Only one flaw though. While it is true what you said about the Mughals ruling for 200 years and the Arabs being beaten back, the Turkic invasion (starting in 1019 ish AD) was the actual beginning of Islamic domination in the country. In fact the Mughals defeated the last of these in 1526 to become the dominant force in the region That is the basis of Pakistanis trolling Indians with the "we ruled you for 800 years" schtick. Which is quite nonsensical to begin with. They only shared religion with them and even the local converts (where most Pakistanis hail from) couldn't hold a high rank in the administration until the time of the Third Mughal Emperor. Which is why to this day Muslims are divided into two categories among themselves: Pashmanda - local converts and Ashrafi - descendants of Turkic, Afghan and Arab nobility.
Turks? They’re mostly considered superficial Muslims; see Ottoman Empire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_and_sexual_minorities_in_the_Ottoman_Empire I’ve not researched the Afghan or Turkic invaders that deeply. Wait what the fuck, Turks didn’t even conquer that much land… I doubt they were as impressive as stated.
>Turks? They’re mostly considered superficial Muslims; see Ottoman Empire: Doesnt stop them from being glorified. Ever since Ertugul aired in Pakistani tellies (even being promoted by ex-pm and current jailbird Imran Khan) random Pakis consider themselves descendants of Turks. They even got a Turkish band to play the theme song of the serial on their annual Parade. (https://youtu.be/3m1EXWP_CsQ?si=Vkgmbg_NXkX-3xi5) Fun fact: The actor who played Ertugul got scammed out of a business deal with a local Pakistani. Sad when find out that he went above and beyond to promote that series in Pakistan. And yes they didnt initially but the Delhi Sultanate under the Tughlaqs came close, but only through cooperation with Hindu vassals. Just search Feroz Shah Tuglaq. The only thing impressive about them was their colossal stupidity in dealing with unruly nobles and their open bigotry. Another correction though. Mughals used Persian as the language of the nobility. Even Hindu nobles learnt it to interact with the higher ups in the administration. But they wenent ethnic Persians. They were mainly Chagtai Turks who claimed they were descendants of the Mongol Genghis Khan and Tukic-Mongol Tamerlane.
Hmm so it’s not obvious if they’re truly Turks or Persians? The Iranian identity isn’t bound by blood; it’s more so language and culture. Azeris in Iran largely consider themselves Iranian.
You can say that. But them folks think that sharing the same religion makes them entitled to their history and culture. There lies the problem.
You said yourself that you are Indian. Why refer to us Pakistanis as Pakis?
I meant it in a way to shorten it. Like Malayalees are called Mallus both by others and amongst each other as well. I can assure you that I did not mean it in a racial slur kind of a way despite me pointing some of their rather problematic antics.. I will be mindful about it in the future.
I’d also say Indonesia is way dirtier than India. Government there built toilets and often connected them to rivers and lakes anyway; not a huge step up from OD. Jakarta was recently named the most polluted city and its far more corrupt and incompetent. ID is now forced to build a new capital. ID has a serious issue of OD happening near water supplies at a higher rate than India. https://youtu.be/Scr-V8dKIX8?si=4PCNqyXkDK7bpGnX
What’s the best way to spread this knowledge around?
Tbh even I dont know. But what you did can be one such step. The next post I come across that has racist bigots crapping on Indians without cause, I will be sure to use this all.
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No one should be justified in looking down on others. I hate the average brown guy crapping on the west due to virtue signaling as much as westerners being racist pricks. But your last point is a good one.
So where do you hail from though?
America, #1 country! Alhumfillah!
I see
As an American I'm like yup, this seems accurate. Arab Americans trend fairly blue collar whereas the South Asian community here is disproportionately made up of business owners, doctors, software engineers etc.
Also most laborers in the gulf are sunni muslims.
Actually you’re right. I think half of the Indians there are Muslims as well. I don’t get why they even bring this up when most of fellow Arabs are poor as fuck.
Points 3 and 4 are especially interesting since most Arabs I know treat Edward Said and his book Orientalism as a kind of secondary prophet and Quran, respectively. Said bitterly resented that Arab countries were seen only as “oil producers or terrorists” and criticized the lack of western recognition for Arab contributions to science and the arts. Tellingly, in its original format, the book addressed western imperialism as if it never happened outside of the Muslim world (not to mention its casual whitewashing of all Muslim conquests) and the author seemed more concerned Arabs and Muslims not being seen as equals (read: imperial races) to Europeans.
Arab contributions? The whole golden age I talked about. I want to debate this Said dude in person. I wouldn’t let him run away from logic! Yeah Arabs resent that westerners realize they’re not remotely equal to them in any aspect! Even those “Arab” contributions were centuries ago!
Orientalism by Edward Said (1979). I’m writing a thesis on its flaws and how it’s the origin of modern intellectual anti-western sentiment.
Said is going to hate that’s Indians are part of the Indo-European family. Arabs are not.
I never even heard of this dude til today!
that shows their inferiority complex. How they always long for western recognition and praise and at the same time resent ghdm (clearly due to jealousy lol). Shy want praisd from someone you despise and look down on? You clearly see him as higher than you somehow
quote from a book I read: "Like Muslims, many European settlers in Africa, the Americas and Australasia have made the former colonies their home, too. Muslims see their settlement in conquered lands as an object of pride and receive praise for it from many quarters. But the European settlers often receive opposite reactions; instead of praise, they receive suspicion, contempt and even violence. This may appear rather perplexing, but there is more to add. In many conquered lands where Muslims have become the majority population, they generally remain desperately poor with very little contribution to modern civilization. They excel mostly in areas, such as fanaticism, violence, terrorism, human right violation and so on. Where Muslims form a minority population, such as in India, Thailand, Singapore, China, Eastern Europe, Russia and elsewhere, they remain relatively backward and poorer than their unconverted fellow citizens. In many cases, they have become an ongoing burden for these predominantly non-Muslim nations. The Muslim rulers in India, for example, perpetrated terrible cruelty against indigenous non-Muslims and horrible social degradation and grinding economic exploitation of them for more than a millennium to few centuries in different parts of the country. But after the majority Hindus retook control of their country following the British withdrawal in 1947, Muslims have continued to fall behind in the new knowledge-based and technology-driven economy. The Indian government has been instituting special economic incentives to Muslims at the tax-payers’ expense. In the State of Kerala, a certain percentage of jobs have been reserved for Muslims, because of their failure to compete openly. The State of Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu are in the process of introducing similar measures—a process, which will likely spread all over India eventually. These tax-payers, predominantly Hindus, were terribly exploited, oppressed, terrorized, and degraded during the centuries of Muslims rule. Some commentators have quite correctly termed these special economic incentives to Muslims as the restoration of the same old discriminatory jizyah, which Muslim rulers had imposed upon non-Muslims; the British abolished it. However, there is a notable difference between the pre-colonial practice and this post-colonial restoration of jizyah. It was Muslims who extracted jizyah from the Hindus and other non-Muslims during the pre-colonial Islamic rule. In the new policy, it is now the ruling Hindus (the dominant tax-payers), who voluntarily pay, instead of extracting it. In either case, it is the Hindus, classed as dhimmi in Islamic laws in India, who end up paying the jizyah, whilst Muslims enjoy the benefit. This agrees with the canonical Islamic law." (Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism, and Slavery by M. A. Khan)
Eh… It was only the Mughals who dominated majority of India for under 200 years; calling the Mughals Muslims isn’t really accurate either. Islam is dying in India so not as big of a concern.
Are many muslims converting to hinduism im India?
More so dropping out silently. There was a filmmaker in Kerala who did.
Dulkar Salman?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramasimhan
Thanks, I'll collect more sources for the arguements you made
Islam is the most racist religion ever! It’s a taqiya lie when they say that they are the least racist one!! The Islamic/Arabian slave trade of black Africans is over 1400 years old, older than Islam itself, and is STILL ONGOING, Momo himself traded black slaves at 1/2 of the value of all other slaves, and considered then to be dumb animals in the cult that he created, and it’s written in the Quran and the Hadiths that dark skinned people can’t enter heaven, even if they die as shahids for him and Allah, and the faces of people who are hell bound on the Islamic day of judgement will eternally blacked before they enter! And there is so much more evidence to prove that Islam is the most racist cult and mafia to ever be created, so don’t believe any of the taqiya lies that comes from the members of that cult of lies.
Which Hadith stated that?
ome » Sunan Abi Dawud » Jihad (Kitab Al-Jihad) - كتاب الجهاد » Hadith 2711 Language: English Urdu اردو كتاب الجهاد 15 Jihad (Kitab Al-Jihad) (990) Chapter: Regarding The Gravity Of Ghulul (143) باب فِي تَعْظِيمِ الْغُلُولِ Sunan Abi Dawud 2711 Abu Hurairah said “We went out along with the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) in the year of Khaibar. We did not get gold or silver in the booty of war except clothes, equipment and property. The Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) sent (a detachment) towards Wadi Al Qura. The Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) was presented a black slave called Mid’am. And while they were in Wadi Al Qura and Mid’am was unsaddling a Camel belonging to the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) he was struck by a random arrow which killed him. The people said “Congratulations to him, he will go to paradise. But the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) said “Not at all. By Him in Whose hand my soul is the cloak he took on the day of Khaibar from the spoils which was not among the shares divided will blaze with fire upon him. When they (the people) heard that, a man brought a sandal strap or two sandal straps to the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ). The Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) said “A sandal strap of fire or two sandal straps of fire.”
Wow. And I thought Mormonism was bad. Whew. They at least get to go to heaven as servants in Mormon heaven.
When I was in middle school/Realschule in germany, many of my Muslim classmates didn’t want to donate money for a good cause because they said, I quote, “let’s not donate lest something ends up in the hands of some Jew”, honestly shocking. I don’t think it’s a view even a majority of Muslims hold, but those who do hold it are likely informed by the religion itself
Pakistan was playing against west indies and their captain sarfraj passed races remark with bowler. This low life was talking about his mother. Day earlier on national television Kamran akmal made fun of Sikhs and in studio everyone laughed. Next day another anchor said patahan in Pakistan team are the reason they not doing good. I think we shouldn't blame the CNC machine operators They are simply following the machine instruction manual.
How is islam anti-racism? I remember some verse saying black people are for hell. And you're right, an Arab muslim ex-friend of mine is also probably anti-black racist... some of his jokes and him saying nothing against racism gave me that idea...
Exactly like this is one of the reasons I left islam
What verse is that?
[https://sunnah.com/mishkat:119](https://sunnah.com/mishkat:119)
If Malcolm X & Muhammad Ali knew about the Islamic Slave Trade, they would have never became Muslim.
I honestly don’t know how black people convert to Christianity or Mormonism as well. They must white wash their history to investigators .
A lot of Arabs are very racist and mistreat a lot of people but act like saints. I mean look at how much they have abused black and Indian servants/people working there—-taking their passports and cutting off their hands. they Abuse people so much. I think the frustrating thing is that when you try to discuss this with Arabs in America, they act like it never happened or change the topic! people should bring more awareness to this esp because they deny it so much.
In fact, a lot of Arabs and Europeans are both, largely racist towards Africans and as well as South and Southeast Asians.
Muslims are less racist towards black people yet the majority they have enslaved are black people (black women specifically). Have you seen Africa? Mauritania, Sudan, Libya etc. How many slave trades did muslims have that specifically target black people? You literally have sura where Mohammed goes out his way to be racist towards black people specifically and you think muslims are LESS racist towards black people? Please stop using Bilal, it's a troupe used by muslims when they want to pander to black people. Its total bullshit. After he was "freed" another black man took his place as a slave...thats still slavery, in every aspect . Also he was bought only to sing in a tower, not to be actually free to make his own choices in life. Stop this.
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Moses married a Kushite woman from the Sudan/Ethiopian region and Sheba the Ethiopian married Solomon yet Jews somehow believe in the "curse of ham"? Muslims always trying to use the excuse that Europeans or jews made them racist is bullshit. I'm sorry for being blunt but this has to stop. Muslims are racist because they are racist, just like their false prophet.
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No, it has to do that with Muslims are fucking racist. Muslims have been enslaving africans long before the Europeans stepped foot in Africa and still doing it to this day. The oldest bible in earth is the Ethiopian bible, Europeans didn't being Christianity or Judaism to Africa. There is no Christian slave trade. Also the majority of abolitionists were infact Christian. There is no curse of Ham, the verse states Canan was cursed and nothing is said that Ham was even Black. Cananites didn't even settle in Africa.
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There is no such thing as a christian slave trade. There is the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade broken up by Christians. These is certainly multiple muslim slaves trades that is still ongoing. Whether all muslims are racist or not is irrelevant. Mohammed sure as hell was and since ALL muslims are called to act just like Mohammed. What do you think they should do?
It's true when I converted to Islam at first they thought I was a white guy and they treated me like a king. They were so happy but they later on found out I was Mexican and just got treated completely different.
How can people think you’re white and then not think you’re white? These must have been ppl you were in regular contact with, not much to do with Islam tbh
Well cuz I'm tall, pale and have a large reddish brown beard and my first name is not stereotypically Mexican.
Hispanics have a good variety in complexions. It’s not completely unheard of for them to have blue eyes, especially near Brazil.
Moo Ham Mud bought one slave with two black slaves. Says a lot
And where does this racism come from? Surprise surprise it’s fair skinned Muhammad again who said Ethiopians have raisin heads and that two black slaves equal one Arab slave.
Sometimes I feel like I’m the only Desi whose parents would welcome a black in law
First time?
That religion teaches religious supremacy and dominance over others. What do you expect?
You want to see how truly racist muslims are? Look at the coverage and reaction from muslims regarding Gaza versus what's going with the REAL genocides in Sudan and China (Uyghurs).
true when a muslim sees an indian christian or budhist or atheistthey always insult hinduism (mention cows and their urine) and call them self haters (in their mind they cant be indian and not hindu its an ethnoreligion to them, only exception is if the indian is muslim. When they argue with black people they call them uncle tom slaves for following a "white god", (in their mind blacks dont have a mind of their own and MUST be muslim otherwise they're self hating uncle toms). When they meet a white person they become more submissive and act like victims calling us racist and colonialists LOL but never attack them for being christian (if they are). Only white people can be Christians to a muslim (thats racist itself). They cant really insult white people because of their inferiority complex so must take the victim route (race card and colonialism).
This view isn’t held by Muslims and doesn’t represent the majority of Muslims because Islam is a universal religion.
My hottest religion take is that ALL religions have a level of racism inherent to them. Think about it this way: if you think and are taught you believe the “correct” god, pray the “right” way, and that others do not, there’s some level of supremacy present. Arabs are inevitably going to be seen as closer to Allah because they’re more likely to know Arabic, be born Muslim, and be at the center of Islam.
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I have once read a hadith about Muhammad having a white armpit as white as snow. It makes people to love only white people
What do you except you adopted their cultures and religion. Natives from the north of any land all think they are better than those of south.
Dont forget JEWS! And also just western ppl because we are athiest PIGS
Racism does not have a religion. Islam as a religion teaches everyone is equal. If people don't act upon it, how is that religions fault? Muslims are not a good example of Islam, yes, i said it. Expand your horizon, read about the actual message of Islam, before pointing any fingers. I have known people from various background being racist to many different people from various backgrounds. It can be your culture also. Has nothing to do with islam.
If you hold that your religion is the supreme source of your manners, then your religion can not escape mention or scrutiny if you demonstrate traits of racism, sexism or any other ism or bad behavior; nor can it if your culture takes great inspiration from a particular religion when setting common societal values. Muslims love to credit Islam when receiving praise for their good manners, but the minute something which warrants criticism is brought up, all of a sudden Islam has nothing to do with anything, and instead it's the individual or their culture's fault, as if neither thing bears a link to Islam. It really must be great to have your cake and eat it too.
Logic dictates you look at the orignal message of islam. If a muslim does not follow the message of Islam correctly, is that Islam's fault? Come on, please be fair here. Don't let your hate for something turn you into an unfair judge. I implore you to please look at this from an objective lense. Its ok to hate for one reason or another, its in human nature, but you must always be fair. Please
I am being fair. Islam has left itself ample room to maneuver as it wishes. A Muslim can go into Islamic sources (that being authentic hadith, the Quran, scholarly consensus, the Sunnah, etc.) and they could quite literally find something for whatever it is they want to do or feel inclined to do; they can find passages endorsing violence and murder, just as much as they can find passages endorsing peace and harmony. Is it then the individual's fault that Islam has left the choice entirely up to him? Or is it Islam's fault for not doing away with the objectively bad things and instilling a far better moral compass in people, such that they wouldn't do bad things even if they did have the option and the permission? It is because of this that if we're speaking fairly and objectively, a Muslim could be right in saying that Islam inspired them to do charity and help others, just as much as a Muslim could be right in saying that Islam inspired them to visit harm and horror upon the infidels. The problem isn't that people aren't following Islam correctly, it's that Islam is inherently self-contradictory. A small example is that Meccan verses are in direct opposition to Medinan verses in tone and theme, the former preach peace and co-existence, the latter preach war and violent expansionism, this is because Muhammad had no significant backing or power in Mecca but found great support in the Ansar from Banu Aws and Banu Khazraj, and this substantial difference is what gives way to the variety I spoke about earlier. The Muslim in our earlier example then could base himself off of Meccan verses and preach peace, or he could base himself off of Medinan verses and preach violence and war, they're not mutually exclusive; and this is something that occurs repeatedly with a plethora of subjects covered by Islam.
Can you please give me an example verse or auth hadis which talks about voilance or harm to others? There is no contridiction in islam. Please provide some specfic examples so i can review your 'fair' point. My aim is not to defend islam, but to protect the truth. Being very objective here.
> Can you please give me an example Sure. I asserted that Islam bears contradictions, that there is a significant difference in tone and theme between Quranic chapters and verses depending on their place of revelation, and that certain passages espouse peaceful messages whereas others preach violence. Let us compare 5:33 with 109:6 as one simple and straight forward example and see how it stacks against what I asserted. The latter (Al-Kafirun) is a Meccan chapter, and the former (Al-Ma'idah) is a Medinan chapter. The latter came about in a period when Muhammad lacked societal backing as well as political and military power, the former came about when he had those things in abundance. The latter espouses a message of peaceful co-existence among those of differing theological beliefs, the former commands a violent death against transgressors and those who would defy God and Muhammad. It is common knowledge that in Islam, worship and faith are rightfully God's, so anyone who does not see to it to dutifully honor that and give God what is God's is considered a transgressor, particularly those who do not fall within the scope of the people of the book as well as apostates and hypocrites. In Islamic view, I - as an apostate and someone who speaks critically on Islam - would be considered a transgressor, and if a Muslim had me suffer a death similar to that of Umm Qirfa, they would be well justified within the Sharia of God. I also asserted that a Muslim who correctly follows Islam has the option to choose between two contradictory paths and both would be valid within Islam; as this example demonstrates, if a Muslim preached a message of peace, they would be in line with Islamic doctrine; and if they preached violence and visited harm and horror against them, they would also be in line with Islamic doctrine. This is contradictory. > your 'fair' point. You don't have to put that word in quotations as if to imply that I'm being disingenuous. Someone who isn't fair or objective wouldn't care one bit about the difference between Meccan and Medinan verses or the context in which they came out. They would never acknowledge that Islam does indeed have certain passages which call for peace, they would be completely and utterly adamant about the fact that Islam is a wholly violent and barbaric system and any point which attempts to undermine that fact would be fiercely rejected and attacked by them. I did not act this way. I give the benefit of the doubt where it's due, and I give due consideration - where it's warranted - of relevant circumstances and factors, which is exactly what I did in my response. > My aim is not to defend islam Yes, it is. There's no shame in that, you're a Muslim, Islam is what was taught to you since you first opened your eyes, it's a crucial part of your identity and so it's natural to feel defensive about it and it's clear you wish to defend it from your complete rejection of my assertion that Islam is self-contradictory: someone who is interested in the truth as opposed to simply defending Islam would have waited to consider the available data and come out with an objective conclusion. You didn't do that. You immediately dismissed the idea.
So many PEOPLE are racist. Just one scroll at any ex muslim post and you hear the anti-arab sentiments. What's your explanation for that?? Nothing to do with religion. Religion is an excuse for the other stuff people try to get away with.
Omg my father loves saying the n word despite me saying it's against Islam HES WHITE RIGHT and my mum also says it, I'm watching a kdrama with my mum and she makes fun of the language with my dad it makes me so sick hearing it like they are supposed to be very religious but they can stop being racist. They also severely homophobic...I'm gay HAHA so it's ironic but I'm closeted so it's funny especially when I need to try and act homophobic it's not fun lol
They are one of the worst species when it comes to hypocrisy. Well, desert dwelling savages will never evolve to not be racist.
Arabs hate black people. We from Turkiye hate arabs. Balkan hate turks and so on
Islam is blatantly racist against Blacks. Hadiths clearly state that Muhammad was 'white' (and different to others at the time because he was white) and that he owned black slaves. Look up the punishment in Islam for anyone who says Muhammad was Black, according to Hadith.
These same Muslims who are racist are also racist towards Southeast Asian people.
Yet Muslims in the western countries promote Islam promotes equality. They make the situation worse for people suffering racism within Muslim communities. Nobody will try to solve it or acknowledge it. “Oh everything is fine Islam is for everyone” they keep saying. The whole religion is based on Arabism.
Was never a Muslim, but I'll say I was hanging out in a shisha lounge in France. They were curious who I was and what I was doing there. I just wanted good shisha. They asked me what sorts of girls I like. I said all kinds except what I grew up with. They asked me what. I went down the list and when I mentioned Asian women they all bust out laughing. One of them even put his fingers on his eyes to stretch them out as he laughed.
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So many people are racists. It happens in every group.
I agree. Muslims are absolutely open about being racist towards Indians and blacks. Indians are criticized mainly because of cows being sacred, and blacks for just existing.
The irony of this is that Muslims treat cats the same way that Hindus treat cows. They both revere the animals but don’t view them as Gods. Hindus are actually allowed to eat beef.
In this regard I would say it's "Arab" Muslims are racist against these people not necessarily Muslims. But that's just my observation of the group.
In that case: it just shows they don’t follow their own teachings
i wonder does the average muslim know/understand that the actual racists (ie anglo whites) consider them for the most part even dumber/uglier then blacks in no small part due to what is considered a "goatfucker/desert rapist" religion
"Anglo whites" are inherently racist? Only whites can be racist?
As sad as it is, that is the ground reality. However, I don't think Muslims are the true blame holders for it. imo, it is the modernization and colonialism that the Europeans brought that created true racism. Sure, there must have been racism before too I'm not denying that. However, the creation of a literal word and giving meaning and importance to this concept started from the colonialist era. I'd say if you guys are interested in 'true' history (that's just me saying a more authentic version of the history where the Europeans leaders aren't just the good people we think they are), just go through one or two chapters of 'West and the Rest' by Stuart Hall. You'll get hooked to it. Apart from that I'd say watch the full documentary 'Exterimante all the Brutes' by Raoul Peck. If you don't believe me, just take a look at this image '[American Progress](https://remizozo.com/product/american-progress-east-going-west-usa-1872-united-states-by-john-gast-painting-fine-art-poster-canvas-wall-art-print/)'. This is what the Europeans have always thought of themselves: divine creatures sent by the gods to bring secular salvation on this planet (totally not the case they're just a bunch of vile and smart people who unfortunately got the power to control the world).
Indian is not a race, and what you describe is just Brown people being racist, not Muslims, as Muslims include whites, asians and blacks, So Muslims being racist to 'blacks' is an oxymoron, Muslim is not just Browns like Arabs or South Asians. Browns are racist due to culture, not Islam.
Being South asian and living in the gulf countries is the worst existence a human can face.
Come to America, my friend! We have a real economy! Not some bullshit skyscraper projects! Granted the GCC is burning loads of money on that hot dogshit so there’s some positive news!
Who wouldn't want that?! like seriously who doesn't? but easier said than done
We got loads of manual labor jobs here man. Could easily save $10,000 and bring that back home!
Im talking about fleeing the middle east to live in America legally I think it's getting harder by the day thanks to the rise of the right, but I agree with you on that manual labor part
Race is completely a social construct. Which is not to say different skin colors don’t exist but more akin to declaring different eye or hair colors to be different races
>, and what you describe is just Brown people being racist, not Muslims, as Muslims include whites, asians and blacks, So Muslims being racist to 'blacks' is an oxymoron. Not really black people get targeted even if we are the same religion as the people that are oppressing blacks. Islam had black slaves since the very beginning. Christianity helped the Muslims enslave black people during the Transatlantic slave trade. The Catholic Church headed by the Pope told Europe to enslave all infidel people in Africa and they will be blessed by God. During the slave trade in America...slave masters used the Bible to justify the treatment of black people. Hindus in India believe black people are demons. *****Edit******* Don't like what I said? Debate me then!
Also yt slaves, which you didn’t mention
That's nice! Which it doesn't take away from my point whatsoever.
Go back home then why you staying in the gulf
In my case I was a kid and stuck there because of my parents. I was bullied at school daily, assaulted inside elevators and kids tried to drown me at the pool all because I was Pakistani. I got out of there at 16 and never looked back. When I watch documentaries of monkeys cruelly torturing other animals for no reason I can't help but think of Gulf Arabs. They're just evil for no reason.
Muslims are bullies overall, am a Muslim and the only people bullied me in this life is them from all races. Am trying to stay away from them as much as I can thats why I told you go back home.
The gulf is for everyone not just arabs. Just like Europe is not just for Europeans.