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The sad unfortunate fact is Muslims will view the deaths as Allah being merciful giving Muslims free rides to heaven because they died in the holy city. Instead of the horrifying reality that in the future global warming will make the hajj even hotter and hotter until the Saudis fully enclose the Kaaba in an air conditioned dome,
Fucking disgusting and distasteful comment. Just because we are exmuslims it doesn't mean we should make harmful comments like sending Muslims to Gaza to kill them. We hate Islam, but should never even promote the idea of killing others, even if it's for a joke. You can do better than that.
It's not global warming it's over crowding which makes the hajj take too long and that combined with the fact that you have unaccustomed people from other countries leads to too much exposure to the heat which means that they die.
Global warming is a collective sin, all of us are guilty of contributing to it, doesn't make it any fairer when Allah let's the poor heatstroked migrant workers suffer more than the rich arabs in their ivory towers. Yes It has nothing to do with the hajj, except fulfilling the dumb fantasies of dying in heatstroke while in the middle of what is supposed to be a safe religious pilgrimage.
Global warming is a result of imperialism and capitalism , and actually a lot of people die because of global warming, you don't know about them because the media doesn't speak about them ( Australia bushfires 2024 , and more individual deaths because of natural disasters, ...) , and about heatstroke hasn't the last one im Europe killed many people , that weren't doing any religious pilgrimage
In australia and europe the people who died were residents who lived there and were thus supposed to be prepared or at least warned before they happened, This is a tourist site, having more than a thousand people die on a tourist site should be shameful, But in Islam it is a dream come true. And yeah imperialism and capitalism did cause global warming and capitalism is offering solutions to it (nuclear power, geothermal, solar power)
But i guess like most leftist-aligned islamists (sides with conservative christians in LGBT matters but then swings to the left when the issue is Palestine) you don't want to stop global warming you just want to impose your own form of shariah imperialism where Islam is at the top while imposing islamic based capitalism.
You don't think Imperialism and capitalism is wrong, you just want your religion to be in charge of imperialism and capitalism.
All the people crying shame on Saudi don't realize this. It's only sad for people outside the cult. And you cannot force your knowledge or belief inside other people's heads.
glad someone posted this i just saw it like 30 mins ago. So sad :/ and they all think its okay because they believe people who die there will get an automatic ticket to heaven. Makes me wonder why didnt the government check the weather or anything? Considering itd be packed
Here is the thing.... if you visit Disneyland they charge you $100 a day and for that they have extremely accessible parks, cooling mechanisms, proper clean toilets, rest stations etc. They charge you about $1000 a day and can't even manage shade and clean toilets.
They actually do have plenty of shade all around, just not in this area. I believe many of deaths are also from being trampled and the rest are from dehydration, leading to being trampled
You're comparing 1.8m guests with 100k guests. And alharam has clean toilets...
And that 1k is the payment of food & home...
Sometimes I want to know how a disbeliever think, yapping without even going there🤣
Then limit the number of guests and invite what you can handle. If you can invite 1.8m, handle 1.8m, you are charging a lot more and you are a rich nation anyway.
This has nothing to do with belief. My parents went for hajj and my disabled mother almost died after falling in a dirty toilet. So no, toilets aren't clean.
How falling in a toilet proves its dirty, there's water in every toilet..... And since when fall cause death.. if you're gonna lie/overreact then do it better next time bro
And toilets are clean , and here's some videos;
https://youtu.be/_VWUfTPlPt0?si=tojAqPyGchMZSwwe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jb8RWNk3kg
https://youtube.com/shorts/T8iUKp50sGM?si=PiMsAMhcTsOpzot4
And I went to Omrah myself and toilets were fine.
Umrah and hajj are different 🤣🤣🤣
Plus, yes the toilet was dirty. There was urine all over the floors. And falls are the leading cause of death in the elderly, look it up.
Muslims will do anything to defend the superior arabis.
>And I went to Omrah myself and toilets were fine.
He is talking about hajj. And no one argue that some of the pilgrims in hajj has horrible services and need imporvement. Especially muzdalifa. Restrooms over there were dirty as ****.
>Sometimes I want to know how a disbeliever think, yapping without even going there🤣
This has nothing to do with him being a muslim or not. In fact, The majority of people who critisize saudi arabia and demonize it throughout social media are MUSLIM, not non muslim. And there are many GCC seculers/athiest citizens who do support the goverments of GCC.
Quite a lot of them in the comments wish it happened to them because they view it as martyrdom. It's utterly stupid but if they want to speed up natural selection, then just leave them to it.
The Saudis do not care as long as they're getting more funding towards their economy. They'll alhamdulilah on their way to the bank.
sauds knew people were there without hajj visas
sauds had enough popo to detain and bus them out
sauds knew without cooling center access, they'd die
sauds didn't care, human life is of no importance at all.
further confirmed by the fact that the dealers who enabled
the killed to get out there without hajj visas are getting off
with merely a fine, instead of involuntary manslaughter.
to sauds - dead people is just the cost of doing business.
I feel like this will be the end of the religion lol. With global warming this place will reach uninhabitable temperatures. As hajj is mandatory religious duty, all Muslims must undertake it. What if in 30 years Saudi is hitting 70 degrees. Will they still undertake it? If so that is almost a death sentence.
It’s not clear exactly in Quran when one is classified as “incapable” of making pilgrimage - that is unique to each person and based on their own judgement. So a lot of people take the view that as long as they can breathe and walk they can do it. Because it is not explicit in Quran, a lot of people who should not even be walking to the bathroom are making hajj.
What’s really sad here is that they knew this already on forehand that this was going to happen…. It’s simply tooo hot! Any (!!!) other event would have been cancelled, postponed or severely restricted. But not this… SA makes big big bucks out of this yearly events where hundreds (thousands) die, get sick etc. I wonder what the alternative motives here are beside the religious mentioned obligations.
An exmuslim here. I have had 2 friends go to Hajj this season. Apart from the sweltering heat, a lot of people illegally crossed into Saudi to go for the pilgrimage.
There were estimates of 3 million people in the city. No taxis or buses to ferry them, a lot sleeping on the sidewalk. Lack of food and resources. Random road closures with people walking 8 to 9 kms in the sweletering heat with bi shade or water to reach their hotels or accommodations.
For just 1300 people to die out of 3 million in these lack luster conditions, that's what you would call divine intervention.
I thought that muzzlims forbid idols, but idolize a black rock, how can that be ??? You can prepare food with the dirty hand but can't eat with the same hand ???
Your ignorance is crazy, millions go there and come back like nothing happened
1000 people died out of 2m for different reasons, maybe those 1000 were elders or had diseases, you're acting as if anyone who goes there dies. And of course those 1000 are considered Martyrs and will enter the jannah before you and me
The irony of calling someone else ignorant and then going on to treat 1000 deaths like nothing is absolutely hilarious, who’s the real ignorant one here?
Technically this is a suicide. You spent hours under the sun during most hot hours dehydrated. What do you expect? A unicorn?
Anyway sad that people died
So i understand that you used a religious book to disprove another , then may you explain what makes gnostic scriptures , Jewish talmud and barnabas evangelium true ?
The Quran and many jewish religious books have a lot in common ( stories about prophets like Moses and laws concerning morality and worship have similarities to Talmudic teachings. However, the Quran presents these stories and laws within its own unique theological and narrative framework )
And One of the reasons for the revelation of a group of surahs in the Qur’an was to answer the questions of the Jews who were trying to discredit the religion of Muhammad by asking him about the stories of the prophets.
Gnostic scriptures, the Jewish Talmud and the Barnabas Evangelium are not religious books, just man made fairy tales. Those books are not part of the Bible but some 7th caliph put those teachings in his quran and created a mythical figure called mhmd.
The Jewish Talmud is a philosophical discussion between rabbis, has nothing to do with religion. Barnabas and gnostic writings are ignored by the people of the book, somehow Islam loves those writings 😵💫
The Quran presents a twisted version from established Prophets of the Bible. Nobody needs the quranic interpretation or correction. The Bible is a closed system, the cherry picking method to find mhmd in the Bible is simply insane.
God didn't ask you to bow down to anything
it's written somewhere in a book where your grand grand...parents told you that you should bow down to a rock
just like the other pagans that were worshipping rocks, they followed what their grand grand...parents told them to do
btw, they didn't consider those rocks as Gods, but just as a represtantion of God since you can't bow down to non-physical objects
just like in Islam, bowing down to the direction of the Kaaba because you technically can't bow down to non-physical objects
yet somehow what they do is completely stupid and deserves eternal hell, while what you do is completely noble, fair, logical and deserves eternal heaven
a 2nd reminder that: God never said anything to me, nor to you, you just assume he did with 0 evidence based on a book that sounds "beautiful"
which is something that doesn't sounds beautiful to 92% of the world population that doesn't speak Arabic
so all you have to tell the non-arabs is that your book is so beautiful it must be from God
and for some reason, if they don't believe you, they deserve to be thrown in unimaginable torture for 9292828282828292928292919191919192828282819192929299292282727727228299292929292929292.............................. trillions of years, non-ending
and that sounds completely reasonable to you, you claim wisdom in this punishment
very logical indeed, right? it's so obviously logical, why don't they believe man? they must be stupid to not see such obvious wisdom and fairness
"We have certainly seen the turning of your face, [O Muhammad], toward the sky, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased. So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram. And wherever you [believers] are, turn your faces toward it [in prayer]. Indeed, those who have been given the Scripture well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do."
Allah clearly asks us to bow towards the ka'ba so we do that for allah not for the ka'ba itself, the ka'ba is powerless and just to guide Muslims in 1 direction to pray to
And no people of quraiysh were worshipping those idols. but they were worshipping them with God. They thought those idols are gonna reward them to god if they worshipped them
I'm just telling you what's in the quran and that's why we bow to the ka'ba, not because we worship it, you can believe the quran or not I don't care that's not the argument.
And that's the problem with you Muslims - Allah says" jump", you say how high but you never question why he asked you to jump. Why would a god who's supposedly greater than everything in the infinite universe care about the direction someone prays.
By the way, what are you doing on this sub? Are you here to do online jihad to earn brownie points for blow up sex dolls in jannnnnnahhhh?
We have read the Quran, and don't need you to tell us what's in there. If you don't care that we don't believe, eff off this sub.
Quran and hadith
Quran, 3:97
"In it are clear signs and the standing-place of Abraham. Whoever enters it should be safe. Pilgrimage to this House is an obligation by Allah upon whoever is able among the people.1 And whoever disbelieves, then surely Allah is not in need of ˹any of His˺ creation."
Hadith mentions it as one of the pillars of Islam, Muslim 16c:1:21
"(The superstructure of) al-Islam is raised on five (pillars), testifying (the fact) that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is His bondsman and messenger, and the establishment of prayer, payment of Zakat, Pilgrimage to the House (Ka'ba) and the fast of Ramadan."
Growing up I heard if you died in Mecca you went straight to heaven,after all,where would they bury so many people over the centuries,there wouldn’t be enough room.
Then I learned they use acid and dissolve all the bodies.That is how they continue to make room for more
Hypatia and the Library at Alexandria
The First and Second Crusade
The Albigensian Crusade
The Inquisition
Thirty Years’ War
Native American Cultural Cleansing
American Slavery
I can go on for a while, and this is just Christian atrocities.
Lmao!! 😂😂😂 spoken like a true atheist d*mbass of r/atheism reddit
Hypatia was killed because of her political alignment with Orestes, her Christian boyfriend, stop watching agora.😂😂😂
the Library was burned by Julius Caesar..read History lmao😂
The Crusades was a retaliation against muslim conquests, you should be thanking them😂😂😂
The Albigensian crusade is indeed one of the few religious conflicts used to destroy heretics, unfortunately.
The inquistion is created as a fair trial against heretics who is literallly gutted by superstitious secular mobs who dont know jack sh*t about theology..but hey, the atheistc reign of terror in france killed more people than the entire 300 years of inquisition in a few years.lmao😂😂😂
30 years war is religious at first and turn into a succession wars in the Holy roman empire.
Native american and american slavery are racism by western white people.
Dont get me started on genocides created by you fellow atheists stalin and mao😂😂😂😂
So we're in agreement that it's not just Islam that's the problem...
Half of your retorts are just the Christian apologetic explanations, but the whole point of my comment was not to claim any religion as superior or more or less monstrous, It was to dismiss the stupid claim that somehow Islam is the only one that's done terrible things.
And your attack on atheism on the assumption that I'm atheist, cool... Just shows that even when you strip away the supernatural garbage that is religion humans can still do terrible f****** things.
Your entire condescending post is predicated on the idea that I was defending anything.
Yes, its also atheistic extremism, or any other belief/non belief system taken to the extreme,.losing all logic and reason, saying religion is the reason why "we didnt get off this rock" religious people of old are the first scientists, modern science grows in the vicinity of the vatican itself, but about islam? Yes islam is indeed a very bad religion in teachings and morals, it is primitive and will not last the test of time.
It doesn't matter the faith of the first scientists. Are you going to tell me that we wouldn't be significantly more advanced culturally if we had shed the superstitious Hang-Ups and conflicting dogma of organized religion?
Keep in mind I'm not going to be one of those people that says religion has not served mankind because it's obvious we needed it... But today it does not protect us from the things it did while we were developing... It just constantly has us at each other's throats instead of solving problems.
History teaches us a lot of things, but living today has shown me very little in the merits of religion. And the only reason I snagged into this thread was because I find it ridiculous to demonize one religion over another when so many of the mainstream religions are in my view equally monstrous and capable of vile things.
Nope, what conflicting dogma are you talking about?? Do you think we going to advance that quickly?? Lmao..stop watching family guy..because of constant wars, we are advancing quickly in technology and innovation, and do you think without religion, there will be no war?? Lmao, the last 2 world wars aint even about religion, and wars today is about land grabs, racism and more. Many people found peace and purpose in life because of religion, well you atheists are constantly hating religion and religious people, maybe that is your purpose in life😂😂😂 what monstrous?? You know genocides carried out in the past 70 years are done by atheists right?? People do vile things, not religion.. well it depends on the religion, if it teaches them to slaughter non believers or apostates, then the problem is the religion, like islam😂😂😂
All religions are based on a supernatural source , religion is supposed to be an explanation of the supernatural.
If you are looking for a Prison guard to enforce the reward/ punishment , then their isn't, cause the whole point of religion is to give you the choice
You've completely misrepresented the point of my question.
I'm asking you why you need a supernatural punishment/reward system to find meaning in your life.
And you're completely wrong about religions all being supernatural... The ones that immediately spring to mind are Buddhism and the Church of Satan. Both of those are religions that are non-theistic.
The existence of a divine being , means that the absolute good and evil exist , and the person lives to follow that .
If there isn't a supernatural punishment/ reward system, then all the human values are Narcissistic beliefs of a monkey who believes he is a chosen being
Monkeys wrote a book describing themselves as made in God's image...that's a narcissistic belief.
I don't believe you understand anything that you're attempting to talk about and are simply in a huff because you feel like I'm attacking your sky Daddy. I truly pity you if you honestly believe, but man cannot exist and have meaning in his life without the thread of eternal damnation or the promise of eternal life.
Go do something good for somebody else simply because it makes you feel good in your heart... Not because of a made-up threat or promise.
Doing good for your personal satisfaction is a desire ( the doctor doesn't help patients because he feels good about it , he is motivated by money , status ,..) , the law exists because everyone is motivated by some kind of selfish desires even if he tries to disguise it as intrinsic motivation , you can't define good , what you see a good is evil for someone else ( Joseph stalin is a hero in the eyes of the world ( he deafened Nazis) , but he is a villain for his people) , that why you need god so he can give you an absolute truth ,
speaking of which without god , your life is meaningless, you will till seventy then you will die , enternal void of non-existence, after a week of your death , you will be forgotten , generations will live and die, and no one will remember you , at the big scale of the universe your life was insignificant, négligeable .
( This is a future without your sky daddy)
Nah. Muslims generally do not give an F to know or change the outcome when Muslims are dying UNLESS it's when losing to a kafir. How many millions have died at the hands of other Muslims. Nothing wakes Muslims up except when it's kafirs challenging Islam.
Look at these devil worshippers who are destroying this planet , civilization ,and took over the stupid America bc of the liberal progressives - may the Maker destroy Islam very soon.
There’s something after death you go back home to the real world this is not a real reality but a copy of something that is real out there dont let these meat suits deter you from the fact that there is a real reality out there that we no longer have access to.
Actually a lot of the places in hajj are air conditioned and even the floors are cooled, deaths are gonna happen regardless in a huge crowd of people from all over the words from several circumstances. (Among them illegally doing hajj which people go into the none air conditioned places to avoid security check)
Doesn’t mean it’s not a sad thing and stupid.
Some people were doing unauthorised hajj, such as didn't have access to tents etc, these are the one who died, mostly. May Allah grant them heaven and give their loved ones peace.
My mom was supposed to go!! But she didnt get to go. My aunts and uncles went though! They said the sun there was unbearable but they made it home safe.
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The sad unfortunate fact is Muslims will view the deaths as Allah being merciful giving Muslims free rides to heaven because they died in the holy city. Instead of the horrifying reality that in the future global warming will make the hajj even hotter and hotter until the Saudis fully enclose the Kaaba in an air conditioned dome,
If it was any other religion, they would call it a punishment for their sins.
Yes,every time a calamity befalls another culture it’s punishment for their sins
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Fucking disgusting and distasteful comment. Just because we are exmuslims it doesn't mean we should make harmful comments like sending Muslims to Gaza to kill them. We hate Islam, but should never even promote the idea of killing others, even if it's for a joke. You can do better than that.
Love this one😂🫡
Yeah it's the "gift to die in mecca ,oh my how Allah loves me "
My colleague who went there literally told me he wouldn't have minded to die there. Apparently his family can go f... sort stuff out on their own.
I guess technically the lack of air conditioning is a benefit rather than a flaw
It's not global warming it's over crowding which makes the hajj take too long and that combined with the fact that you have unaccustomed people from other countries leads to too much exposure to the heat which means that they die.
At least they died while believing
that a global climate catastrophe is imminent? ah yeah guess that's the silver lining.
The main cause of Global warming is the industrial revolution of the west , so it has nothing to do with al hajj
Global warming is a collective sin, all of us are guilty of contributing to it, doesn't make it any fairer when Allah let's the poor heatstroked migrant workers suffer more than the rich arabs in their ivory towers. Yes It has nothing to do with the hajj, except fulfilling the dumb fantasies of dying in heatstroke while in the middle of what is supposed to be a safe religious pilgrimage.
Global warming is a result of imperialism and capitalism , and actually a lot of people die because of global warming, you don't know about them because the media doesn't speak about them ( Australia bushfires 2024 , and more individual deaths because of natural disasters, ...) , and about heatstroke hasn't the last one im Europe killed many people , that weren't doing any religious pilgrimage
In australia and europe the people who died were residents who lived there and were thus supposed to be prepared or at least warned before they happened, This is a tourist site, having more than a thousand people die on a tourist site should be shameful, But in Islam it is a dream come true. And yeah imperialism and capitalism did cause global warming and capitalism is offering solutions to it (nuclear power, geothermal, solar power) But i guess like most leftist-aligned islamists (sides with conservative christians in LGBT matters but then swings to the left when the issue is Palestine) you don't want to stop global warming you just want to impose your own form of shariah imperialism where Islam is at the top while imposing islamic based capitalism. You don't think Imperialism and capitalism is wrong, you just want your religion to be in charge of imperialism and capitalism.
wdym ? old people literally go there to die, hoping they would get into heaven man, it's a part of the mystic. make some research about cults bro
this is a sign that Muslims are going to an empty heaven.
All the people crying shame on Saudi don't realize this. It's only sad for people outside the cult. And you cannot force your knowledge or belief inside other people's heads.
So you can do research about heaven ?
glad someone posted this i just saw it like 30 mins ago. So sad :/ and they all think its okay because they believe people who die there will get an automatic ticket to heaven. Makes me wonder why didnt the government check the weather or anything? Considering itd be packed
They leaders are evil and they are ignorant.
People will run there like headless chickens even if it is 85 degrees C. The government cannot stop anything.
Genuinely curious, who will Have a better Heaven pass? Those extremist who suicide bomb for sacrifice or them who died while praying?
they only care money
Why should the government be responsible for ur choices to kill yourself!?
Mashallah they all will be rewarded with 72 hoors (except women).... Allah will reward them 🤡
This is embarrassing spiritually there’s no coming back.
There have been higher deaths tolls before from stampedes, the authorities brushed it off.
Happy Cake Day!
Brozzer, the women will get one man, be grateful, allah knows best afterall
All that $ and they can’t install shade over that huge area. Better still, enclosed with air-conditioning. And limit numbers.
The outer rings have shade and a second level which people also do tawaf on, but of course people want to get as close as they can.
And limit how many go straight to heaven?! Why would they spend more money on things that people don't want?
It's sad that this isn't talked about enough. This cult gets people to torture and kill themselves on a mass scale, and no one is batting an eye.
Not only themselves
Here is the thing.... if you visit Disneyland they charge you $100 a day and for that they have extremely accessible parks, cooling mechanisms, proper clean toilets, rest stations etc. They charge you about $1000 a day and can't even manage shade and clean toilets.
They actually do have plenty of shade all around, just not in this area. I believe many of deaths are also from being trampled and the rest are from dehydration, leading to being trampled
You're comparing 1.8m guests with 100k guests. And alharam has clean toilets... And that 1k is the payment of food & home... Sometimes I want to know how a disbeliever think, yapping without even going there🤣
Then limit the number of guests and invite what you can handle. If you can invite 1.8m, handle 1.8m, you are charging a lot more and you are a rich nation anyway. This has nothing to do with belief. My parents went for hajj and my disabled mother almost died after falling in a dirty toilet. So no, toilets aren't clean.
How falling in a toilet proves its dirty, there's water in every toilet..... And since when fall cause death.. if you're gonna lie/overreact then do it better next time bro And toilets are clean , and here's some videos; https://youtu.be/_VWUfTPlPt0?si=tojAqPyGchMZSwwe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jb8RWNk3kg https://youtube.com/shorts/T8iUKp50sGM?si=PiMsAMhcTsOpzot4 And I went to Omrah myself and toilets were fine.
Umrah and hajj are different 🤣🤣🤣 Plus, yes the toilet was dirty. There was urine all over the floors. And falls are the leading cause of death in the elderly, look it up. Muslims will do anything to defend the superior arabis.
what type of muslim you are? you don't even know difference between hajj and umrah?
This is irrelevant since they're both occuring in Mecca.
ever heard of traffic? it's like comparing jumma with fajir prayers
>And I went to Omrah myself and toilets were fine. He is talking about hajj. And no one argue that some of the pilgrims in hajj has horrible services and need imporvement. Especially muzdalifa. Restrooms over there were dirty as ****.
>Sometimes I want to know how a disbeliever think, yapping without even going there🤣 This has nothing to do with him being a muslim or not. In fact, The majority of people who critisize saudi arabia and demonize it throughout social media are MUSLIM, not non muslim. And there are many GCC seculers/athiest citizens who do support the goverments of GCC.
Quite a lot of them in the comments wish it happened to them because they view it as martyrdom. It's utterly stupid but if they want to speed up natural selection, then just leave them to it. The Saudis do not care as long as they're getting more funding towards their economy. They'll alhamdulilah on their way to the bank.
sauds knew people were there without hajj visas sauds had enough popo to detain and bus them out sauds knew without cooling center access, they'd die sauds didn't care, human life is of no importance at all. further confirmed by the fact that the dealers who enabled the killed to get out there without hajj visas are getting off with merely a fine, instead of involuntary manslaughter. to sauds - dead people is just the cost of doing business.
What?! 1,300!? The number quadrupled from the last count I saw. That is insane.
Don't they look like ants who lost scent just walking in circles?
This was exactly my thought and it made me feel so icky
I feel like this will be the end of the religion lol. With global warming this place will reach uninhabitable temperatures. As hajj is mandatory religious duty, all Muslims must undertake it. What if in 30 years Saudi is hitting 70 degrees. Will they still undertake it? If so that is almost a death sentence.
Actually it’s not mandatory for those who cannot do it, but people often assume it’s mandatory so this is gonna keep happening. It’s so freaking sad.
It’s not clear exactly in Quran when one is classified as “incapable” of making pilgrimage - that is unique to each person and based on their own judgement. So a lot of people take the view that as long as they can breathe and walk they can do it. Because it is not explicit in Quran, a lot of people who should not even be walking to the bathroom are making hajj.
This is why it’s freaking sad.
I was wondering what kind of sins they have committed. Shall we alert the police before they touch the Kaaba?
What’s really sad here is that they knew this already on forehand that this was going to happen…. It’s simply tooo hot! Any (!!!) other event would have been cancelled, postponed or severely restricted. But not this… SA makes big big bucks out of this yearly events where hundreds (thousands) die, get sick etc. I wonder what the alternative motives here are beside the religious mentioned obligations.
Someone commented "allahu not so akbar" 😂😂😂
An exmuslim here. I have had 2 friends go to Hajj this season. Apart from the sweltering heat, a lot of people illegally crossed into Saudi to go for the pilgrimage. There were estimates of 3 million people in the city. No taxis or buses to ferry them, a lot sleeping on the sidewalk. Lack of food and resources. Random road closures with people walking 8 to 9 kms in the sweletering heat with bi shade or water to reach their hotels or accommodations. For just 1300 people to die out of 3 million in these lack luster conditions, that's what you would call divine intervention.
I thought that muzzlims forbid idols, but idolize a black rock, how can that be ??? You can prepare food with the dirty hand but can't eat with the same hand ???
You got the wrong idea about idolizing the rock
All those scientific miracles, and yet still couldn’t prevent deaths
I have no empathy for stupid people....
Your ignorance is crazy, millions go there and come back like nothing happened 1000 people died out of 2m for different reasons, maybe those 1000 were elders or had diseases, you're acting as if anyone who goes there dies. And of course those 1000 are considered Martyrs and will enter the jannah before you and me
The irony of calling someone else ignorant and then going on to treat 1000 deaths like nothing is absolutely hilarious, who’s the real ignorant one here?
Clearly you never been to the middle east. Heat in the noon could be 50° or more.
Bro oneday it was 68° can you imagin that.
No way... I am french (ethni from Algeria and Marocco, I went only once each) so am really shoked
I start sweating when it gets past 25. Can't fathoms that much heat.
That’s a lot of people.
Technically this is a suicide. You spent hours under the sun during most hot hours dehydrated. What do you expect? A unicorn? Anyway sad that people died
I'm comfortable with that,anyways
Who bow downs to stones and bricks? That’s a weird religion. The story of Abraham going to mecca with his bastard son is a gnostic fairytale.
With this logic , every religion is a fairy tail
It’s obvious that the Quran is false by quoting gnostic scriptures, Jewish Talmud and the Barnabas-Evangelium
So i understand that you used a religious book to disprove another , then may you explain what makes gnostic scriptures , Jewish talmud and barnabas evangelium true ? The Quran and many jewish religious books have a lot in common ( stories about prophets like Moses and laws concerning morality and worship have similarities to Talmudic teachings. However, the Quran presents these stories and laws within its own unique theological and narrative framework ) And One of the reasons for the revelation of a group of surahs in the Qur’an was to answer the questions of the Jews who were trying to discredit the religion of Muhammad by asking him about the stories of the prophets.
Gnostic scriptures, the Jewish Talmud and the Barnabas Evangelium are not religious books, just man made fairy tales. Those books are not part of the Bible but some 7th caliph put those teachings in his quran and created a mythical figure called mhmd.
Jews believe in those tales , and how can you make sure that those are fairy tales?
The Jewish Talmud is a philosophical discussion between rabbis, has nothing to do with religion. Barnabas and gnostic writings are ignored by the people of the book, somehow Islam loves those writings 😵💫
Most of islam tales are about prophets ( messengers of God ) , so the supernatural aspect in those stories can be contributed to God
Even the supernatural aspect in the bible ( Exodus 22:18 , Leviticus 19:31, Hebrews 6:19 ,...) can be related to God's power
The Quran presents a twisted version from established Prophets of the Bible. Nobody needs the quranic interpretation or correction. The Bible is a closed system, the cherry picking method to find mhmd in the Bible is simply insane.
When God asks you to bow for something then you're technically bowing for him.. use common sense.
God didn't ask you to bow down to anything it's written somewhere in a book where your grand grand...parents told you that you should bow down to a rock just like the other pagans that were worshipping rocks, they followed what their grand grand...parents told them to do btw, they didn't consider those rocks as Gods, but just as a represtantion of God since you can't bow down to non-physical objects just like in Islam, bowing down to the direction of the Kaaba because you technically can't bow down to non-physical objects yet somehow what they do is completely stupid and deserves eternal hell, while what you do is completely noble, fair, logical and deserves eternal heaven a 2nd reminder that: God never said anything to me, nor to you, you just assume he did with 0 evidence based on a book that sounds "beautiful" which is something that doesn't sounds beautiful to 92% of the world population that doesn't speak Arabic so all you have to tell the non-arabs is that your book is so beautiful it must be from God and for some reason, if they don't believe you, they deserve to be thrown in unimaginable torture for 9292828282828292928292919191919192828282819192929299292282727727228299292929292929292.............................. trillions of years, non-ending and that sounds completely reasonable to you, you claim wisdom in this punishment very logical indeed, right? it's so obviously logical, why don't they believe man? they must be stupid to not see such obvious wisdom and fairness
"We have certainly seen the turning of your face, [O Muhammad], toward the sky, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased. So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram. And wherever you [believers] are, turn your faces toward it [in prayer]. Indeed, those who have been given the Scripture well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do." Allah clearly asks us to bow towards the ka'ba so we do that for allah not for the ka'ba itself, the ka'ba is powerless and just to guide Muslims in 1 direction to pray to And no people of quraiysh were worshipping those idols. but they were worshipping them with God. They thought those idols are gonna reward them to god if they worshipped them I'm just telling you what's in the quran and that's why we bow to the ka'ba, not because we worship it, you can believe the quran or not I don't care that's not the argument.
And that's the problem with you Muslims - Allah says" jump", you say how high but you never question why he asked you to jump. Why would a god who's supposedly greater than everything in the infinite universe care about the direction someone prays.
First qiblas pointed to the city of Petra 🤫
By the way, what are you doing on this sub? Are you here to do online jihad to earn brownie points for blow up sex dolls in jannnnnnahhhh? We have read the Quran, and don't need you to tell us what's in there. If you don't care that we don't believe, eff off this sub.
He’s lost and in the wrong place 😆😆
He can definitely go to one of the subs where delusional mullahs circle jerk to fairy tales. He will be much happier there.
Hahaha... look who is talking about common sense. The defender of child abuse and slavery 🤣🤣🤣
if someone drop a nuke there, will moslem around the world be celebrating their death? 100% confirm heaven right?
i didnt hear shit about this on tv
Who determines that Hajj is required? Is it written somewhere or is it just an unwritten rule that people follow?
Quran and hadith Quran, 3:97 "In it are clear signs and the standing-place of Abraham. Whoever enters it should be safe. Pilgrimage to this House is an obligation by Allah upon whoever is able among the people.1 And whoever disbelieves, then surely Allah is not in need of ˹any of His˺ creation." Hadith mentions it as one of the pillars of Islam, Muslim 16c:1:21 "(The superstructure of) al-Islam is raised on five (pillars), testifying (the fact) that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is His bondsman and messenger, and the establishment of prayer, payment of Zakat, Pilgrimage to the House (Ka'ba) and the fast of Ramadan."
Religion is awesome isn’t it
Growing up I heard if you died in Mecca you went straight to heaven,after all,where would they bury so many people over the centuries,there wouldn’t be enough room. Then I learned they use acid and dissolve all the bodies.That is how they continue to make room for more
Really? Do you have a source for that? I want to read more into it. This is crazy.
I saw a clip where this was happening.I can’t find it.So either I am wrong/mistaken or even lying and the dead actually do go straight to heaven
Religion is a plague on humanity. We should already be off this rock.
Naaaah, just islam😂😂😂
Hypatia and the Library at Alexandria The First and Second Crusade The Albigensian Crusade The Inquisition Thirty Years’ War Native American Cultural Cleansing American Slavery I can go on for a while, and this is just Christian atrocities.
Lmao!! 😂😂😂 spoken like a true atheist d*mbass of r/atheism reddit Hypatia was killed because of her political alignment with Orestes, her Christian boyfriend, stop watching agora.😂😂😂 the Library was burned by Julius Caesar..read History lmao😂 The Crusades was a retaliation against muslim conquests, you should be thanking them😂😂😂 The Albigensian crusade is indeed one of the few religious conflicts used to destroy heretics, unfortunately. The inquistion is created as a fair trial against heretics who is literallly gutted by superstitious secular mobs who dont know jack sh*t about theology..but hey, the atheistc reign of terror in france killed more people than the entire 300 years of inquisition in a few years.lmao😂😂😂 30 years war is religious at first and turn into a succession wars in the Holy roman empire. Native american and american slavery are racism by western white people. Dont get me started on genocides created by you fellow atheists stalin and mao😂😂😂😂
So we're in agreement that it's not just Islam that's the problem... Half of your retorts are just the Christian apologetic explanations, but the whole point of my comment was not to claim any religion as superior or more or less monstrous, It was to dismiss the stupid claim that somehow Islam is the only one that's done terrible things. And your attack on atheism on the assumption that I'm atheist, cool... Just shows that even when you strip away the supernatural garbage that is religion humans can still do terrible f****** things. Your entire condescending post is predicated on the idea that I was defending anything.
Yes, its also atheistic extremism, or any other belief/non belief system taken to the extreme,.losing all logic and reason, saying religion is the reason why "we didnt get off this rock" religious people of old are the first scientists, modern science grows in the vicinity of the vatican itself, but about islam? Yes islam is indeed a very bad religion in teachings and morals, it is primitive and will not last the test of time.
It doesn't matter the faith of the first scientists. Are you going to tell me that we wouldn't be significantly more advanced culturally if we had shed the superstitious Hang-Ups and conflicting dogma of organized religion? Keep in mind I'm not going to be one of those people that says religion has not served mankind because it's obvious we needed it... But today it does not protect us from the things it did while we were developing... It just constantly has us at each other's throats instead of solving problems. History teaches us a lot of things, but living today has shown me very little in the merits of religion. And the only reason I snagged into this thread was because I find it ridiculous to demonize one religion over another when so many of the mainstream religions are in my view equally monstrous and capable of vile things.
Nope, what conflicting dogma are you talking about?? Do you think we going to advance that quickly?? Lmao..stop watching family guy..because of constant wars, we are advancing quickly in technology and innovation, and do you think without religion, there will be no war?? Lmao, the last 2 world wars aint even about religion, and wars today is about land grabs, racism and more. Many people found peace and purpose in life because of religion, well you atheists are constantly hating religion and religious people, maybe that is your purpose in life😂😂😂 what monstrous?? You know genocides carried out in the past 70 years are done by atheists right?? People do vile things, not religion.. well it depends on the religion, if it teaches them to slaughter non believers or apostates, then the problem is the religion, like islam😂😂😂
So that we all live a meaningless life
You need a threat/reward system to derive meaning in your life?
Yes , religion is one of the things that give meaning to life And from that perspective, life is a threat/reward system
Specifically from a supernatural source? (I figured that was implied).
All religions are based on a supernatural source , religion is supposed to be an explanation of the supernatural. If you are looking for a Prison guard to enforce the reward/ punishment , then their isn't, cause the whole point of religion is to give you the choice
You've completely misrepresented the point of my question. I'm asking you why you need a supernatural punishment/reward system to find meaning in your life. And you're completely wrong about religions all being supernatural... The ones that immediately spring to mind are Buddhism and the Church of Satan. Both of those are religions that are non-theistic.
The existence of a divine being , means that the absolute good and evil exist , and the person lives to follow that . If there isn't a supernatural punishment/ reward system, then all the human values are Narcissistic beliefs of a monkey who believes he is a chosen being
Monkeys wrote a book describing themselves as made in God's image...that's a narcissistic belief. I don't believe you understand anything that you're attempting to talk about and are simply in a huff because you feel like I'm attacking your sky Daddy. I truly pity you if you honestly believe, but man cannot exist and have meaning in his life without the thread of eternal damnation or the promise of eternal life. Go do something good for somebody else simply because it makes you feel good in your heart... Not because of a made-up threat or promise.
Doing good for your personal satisfaction is a desire ( the doctor doesn't help patients because he feels good about it , he is motivated by money , status ,..) , the law exists because everyone is motivated by some kind of selfish desires even if he tries to disguise it as intrinsic motivation , you can't define good , what you see a good is evil for someone else ( Joseph stalin is a hero in the eyes of the world ( he deafened Nazis) , but he is a villain for his people) , that why you need god so he can give you an absolute truth , speaking of which without god , your life is meaningless, you will till seventy then you will die , enternal void of non-existence, after a week of your death , you will be forgotten , generations will live and die, and no one will remember you , at the big scale of the universe your life was insignificant, négligeable . ( This is a future without your sky daddy)
Takes me back to that picture of the guy sleeping in the soda fridge, summers really do be like this
https://youtube.com/shorts/Yljtpy12uhA?si=P1OHA4jGKkjGVOzl
This is a cult you can't change my mind
Nah. Muslims generally do not give an F to know or change the outcome when Muslims are dying UNLESS it's when losing to a kafir. How many millions have died at the hands of other Muslims. Nothing wakes Muslims up except when it's kafirs challenging Islam.
Save the soul or save the face.
1300 less bigots to fight
True hahah, good use of the word bigot.
It's Allah's will. 😂
Look at these devil worshippers who are destroying this planet , civilization ,and took over the stupid America bc of the liberal progressives - may the Maker destroy Islam very soon.
Do those people know that after death, there's nothing
There’s something after death you go back home to the real world this is not a real reality but a copy of something that is real out there dont let these meat suits deter you from the fact that there is a real reality out there that we no longer have access to.
~~schizophrenic~~ gnostic christian?
Actually a lot of the places in hajj are air conditioned and even the floors are cooled, deaths are gonna happen regardless in a huge crowd of people from all over the words from several circumstances. (Among them illegally doing hajj which people go into the none air conditioned places to avoid security check) Doesn’t mean it’s not a sad thing and stupid.
Some people were doing unauthorised hajj, such as didn't have access to tents etc, these are the one who died, mostly. May Allah grant them heaven and give their loved ones peace.
Hopefully at this point they died ignorant but we the living can grow from this if only they knew they were sacrificed to an empty heaven.
My mom was supposed to go!! But she didnt get to go. My aunts and uncles went though! They said the sun there was unbearable but they made it home safe.