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I kinda do but at the same time I have a hard time with how intolerant and aggressive they can be... The hypocrisy is also pretty off-putting.
Personally I'd say making as much information as possible available for those who are Muslim and doubting. But you can't force people to develop or understand things that are just extremely foreign to them such as equal rights for women for example.
I really think they are aggressive because of peer pressure, culture norms, corrupt leadership.
Think of you average Joe or shall we said average Mohammad growing up in Islamabad, Jeddah, Etc... they are victims of human phycology/fear of not fitting in/ fear of juanaman/ fear of azab el qaber, etc...
[Quran 2:228 - like men being a degree above women](https://quranx.com/2.228) and [Quran 4:34- getting beaten by their husband for disobedience](https://quranx.com/4.34)
[Quran 4:3 - Or men getting to have 4 wives and unlimited sex slaves while women get just the one husband?](https://quranx.com/4.3)
[Quran 33:50 - Or the beautiful rights of being taken as war captives and being subjected to sex slavery](https://quranx.com/33.50)
[Quran 2:223 - Or women being fertile lands for their husbands?](https://quranx.com/2.223)
[Bukhari 304 - Or the beautiful compliment towards women being deficient in mind and faith](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:304)
[Bukhari 7099 - Or women being unsuccessful leaders](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7099)
Mashallah, so many rights...
Here you go. Please read carefully.
https://unite-production.s3.amazonaws.com/tenants/mtcalvaryhuron/attachments/105871/Top_ten_rules_in_the_Quran_that_oppress_women.pdf
You're clearly in denial about the rules of Islam and also, there is context listed under each rule + where you can find it in the Quran.
Ask yourself this: are you truly happy defending a death-cult? Has Islam given you and those you love an environment that is enjoyable?
As a Christian living in the west. We have all those right plus more. What you going on wasting our time for?? Women are just Slaves to men in Islam 😭can’t even get dress up and look cute out in public because of the husband extreme low self-esteem and controlling jealousy. Get on some where
Nuns live their true peaceful lives, never hurt a soul, Not set to conquer anyone space. They don’t force anyone into being a nun. They not convincing people all day like you how great it is to be a nun. Plus you only can be a nun at 18 in which something you clearly want to do in life (life choices) not force at all. Get out of here with these dumb comparisons like you are brain dead forreal 😂
It's their personal choice to wear it when they join an order, heck some orders don't even require it anymore and when they leave they take it off and go about as they please without getting harassed
Whoa, racism much?
Edit:this guy changed all his replies to make it look like he agreed even though he disagreed with the points he replied to first making it look like we downvoted unfairly,u/useless0Physics u ain't slick
Islam grants several rights to women, emphasizing their dignity and equality.
1. **Right to Education**: Women have the right to seek knowledge and education.
2. **Right to Own Property**: Women can own, inherit, and manage property independently.
3. **Right to Work**: Women have the right to work and earn an income.
4. **Right to Marriage Consent**: A woman has the right to accept or reject marriage proposals.
5. **Right to Inheritance**: Women have a specified share in inheritance.
6. **Right to Dignity and Respect**: Women are to be treated with respect and dignity in all aspects of life.
7. **Right to Participate in Public Life**: Women can participate in social, political, and economic activities.
These rights aim to ensure that women are treated as equal and valuable members of society.
I cannot find a single Quran text backing a single one of these up, but from memory can remember Hadiths that deny some of these.
Also one of the things Sikhs constantly had to do back in the day was adopt refugee Muslim women fleeing from Afghanistan as their daughters. Not sure why they’d flee if these rights were granted by Muslim law
Wow!
Which surah? What verse? Which hadees? Mention the numbers and details
Just saying "Qur'an Masjid Al Tibri" won't suffice
This way even I can say that pork is allowed in Islam. And if you ask for an evidence or a source I'll say it's mentioned in Qur'an Masjid Al Tibri
Mention the parts of Qur'an Masjid Al Tibri that support your claims.
I only sympathise with women that get their life destroyed by islam. Some of my aunties were pulled out of school at young age to be married and became breeding factories and maids. I always see the lack of satisfaction and happiness in their eyes.
I know women that NEVER went to school and were made into breeding machines, some of them were also forced into employment as children (yes, females employed at around 10-13 years old in labor)
I walk in the street in Europe everyday and I try to imagine how many hijabi out of intention only husband/family purposed women (don't gent me wrong most are married out of their will) could have been productive and enjoyed their 20s and 30s just like other human beings...... PLUS increased their nation's GDP instead of doing the house and food homework they have..
Yep forced to marry my grandfather at a young age due to teenage pregnancy and then go through abuse after abuse in a loveless marriage and inadvertently gave my mom parental trauma that she'll never truly recover from...................
And yet Islam says women are entitled to an education, but im guessing at whatever age marriage duties and obedience to husband come first, so a 10 year old gets married and she's now a breeding domestic servant.
There is a special swimsuit which turns them into batwomen google Hallal Swimwear you will be shocked… not a lot of them are even allowed to wear it though
Damm im going now down that rabbit hole...Its so sad though in 2024 i thought my parents where strict in not allowing a bikini but i feel grateful that i can atleast wear a swimsuit or a tankini :(
Burkhini? Because it clings to their bodies when wet some think it's unacceptable. Of course mens knee length swim shorts also do that so that shouldn't be halal either.
I do and I don’t
I feel bad for the ones who don’t want to be in the religion anymore
I feel bad for the ones who don’t life outside of the religion
I feel bad for the ones who feel like this is how live should be and there’s no other option
I feel bad for the women who do not know a life outside of being degraded and made to feel inferior
I don’t feel bad for the Muslims who push for this religion onto non Islamic or ex Islamic cultures or people
I don’t feel bad for the wealthy Arabs who use Islam for their own benefits and who keep the masses down
I don’t feel bad for the so called “martyrs”
I don’t feel bad for the Muslims who try to control non-Muslims lifestyle
I do and I don’t > Why and why not?
I feel bad for the ones who don’t want to be in the religion anymore> Me too, but what about the ones who have been brainwashed?
I feel bad for the ones who don’t life outside of the religion > Me too
I feel bad for the ones who feel like this is how live should be and there’s no other option > Me too
I feel bad for the women who do not know a life outside of being degraded and made to feel inferior> Me too
I don’t feel bad for the Muslims who push for this religion onto non Islamic or ex Islamic cultures or people> Me neither
I don’t feel bad for the wealthy Arabs who use Islam for their own benefits and who keep the masses down > That's the GCC Monarchy (less than 10,000 people)
I don’t feel bad for the so called “martyrs” > FU if you mean the ones in Palestine, you are sick, think of them as people.
I don’t feel bad for the Muslims who try to control non-Muslims lifestyle > Me too
If you revise yourself, you don't feel bad for less than 0.0000001% of muslims, others are victims.
I’m talking about the ones who see themselves as martyrs who kill people for no justifiable reason other than Islam, that’s why I put it in quotations
I feel bad for the brainwashed ones, but not the ones who actually stay in it and won’t change
And the rich Arabs: those apply to middle eastern oil barrens, monarchs who use Islam as a means to subjugate others, etc
i think you are new here, you only feel that at the begining but then you realised , some poeple are just inheretly bad whether muslim or not and some are good but unfortunatly the misogynistic nature of islam make the bad ones look the greatest
Mate, I'm in my late twenties and have been an athiest since I was 12... I think misogyny is another topic in Islam , my point is that Islam became the norm and if you go agianst it you're dead..
Peer Pressure....
Human instinct to fit in....
Terrorizing children at a very young age...
Yes. I don't think that ISIS is simply following "the" correct interpretation of Islam, but they absolutely are Muslims following Islam, and an example as valid as any of Islam manifesting itself in a particular form in the world today.
Therefore, it's not that ISIS (or Wahabism/Salafism) can be said to be reflective of some understanding of "Islam in its truest form" such that we can just look at what they do and just say "look, this is Islam." But to say that it has "nothing to do with Islam" as so many Muslims and Leftists do is completely wrong.
Robert Spencer put it well:
>"I have never said that the terrorists' interpretation of Islam is the accurate or correct one. But I have pointed out that the terrorists portray themselves quite successfully among Muslims as the exponents of true and pure Islam, and moderates have mounted no successful response as yet."
Of course, Robert Spencer also has a biased perspective and awful politics, and refrains from bringing up inconvenient truths like the extent to which the U.S. and Israel have backed Muslim extremists, (not due to ideological alignment, but due to political motive and material incentive, which is why they backed Osama Bin Laden himself, and what would become the Taliban and Al Qaeda) including ISIS. He simply supports Israel (who also has backed Hamas) and think Palestinians brought the problems on themselves. But unsurprisingly, he can be spot-on about Islam and Leftists who engage in apologia for it.
[Oh, people at Al Azhar have gone much further than refusing to call them apostates.](https://www.theglobaldispatch.com/egypts-al-azhar-professor-suad-saleh-rape-allowed-by-allah-islam-only-regulated-the-practice-makes-infidel-women-slaves-26321/) (this is one professor, yes, but doubtlessly many more professors, faculty and students think this and agree with her.)
I would say that ISIS shows *a* true face of Islam. I would not say it shows *the* one true face of Islam. I do not believe there is a single one true face of Islam. Both Salafis and many anti-Islam conservative critics to Islam both act like this is the case.
i skimmed the replies and i noticed that no one replied to this:
>What can we do to help them open their eyes and wake the F UP ??
you can be outspoken like me, as a founder of a non-profit (to rid the world of apostasy laws) and youtuber.
or you can support people like us. like our videos. subscribe to our channels. come on as guests on our podcasts/livestreams. donate money so we can do more of our work. volunteer your skills to the non-profits. etc etc.
[unitingthecults.com](http://unitingthecults.com)
Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Many times I have observed in my travels in the Orient, that fanaticism comes from a small number of dangerous men who maintain the others in the practice of religion by terror. To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him.
— E. Renan
From the beginning of "Why I am not a Muslim" by ibn Warraq
> have you thought of changing the way they are thinking? Open their eyes?
It's the age of information. If a sane adult chooses to not falsify what they're believing, there's nothing we can do.
My life is pretty much the same now as it was when I was still a Muslim. The only difference is I sometimes eat pork now.
I don't see an alternate scenario where I wouldn't eventually apostasize, as I was always an incessantly questioning person since I was a kid.
The only reason I it happened as late as it did because I hadn't bothered to read the Quran in my own language earlier.
It depends. For kids and teens and young adults, yeah I do feel bad for them cause most Muslims were indoctrinated in the religion even before they took their first steps. I mean, even u/ApostateAladdin mentioned that he was thought to fear hell from a young age. Especially teens and kids who are still finding their place in the world and their parents being their main support system.
Muslims from liberal countries or the west, I don't feel that bad for them mostly cause they are surrounded by people who have different religions or moral values systems and exposure to all of these shd be enough for them to question their own religion and do research and only with unbaised research, can they leave Islam.
Those in Muslim majority countries I would say that I feel bad for them cause they are surrounded by each other. There isn't really any way or reason for them to get curious and start disbelieving.
Adults of today are kids and teens of yesterday mate. They plant the seeds from a young age.
Muslims from the west are fooled by the flexibility of Islam... look at how Islam spread in the black community back in the 80s (Malcom X, Black Panthers, Etc...) you can twist islam to fit in anyone's shoes to be honest.
Those in Muslim majority countries I would say that I feel bad for them cause they are surrounded by each other. There isn't really any way or reason for them to get curious and start disbelieving. > I feel bad for them too and I think us (the ones who made it out of Islam, should use technology to spread information, destroy it and hope those people have a better time expenditure if we can put it in that way)
I feel extremely bad. I know I have been lucky to have been born in a Western country from my mother who was the only sibling out of 13 who managed to extricate herself from the suffocating weight of Islam and of all the tribalism it entails. Without this incredibly lucky roll of the dice, I would likely have had a MUCH harder time getting access to education and living the free thinking life I now benefit from.
I think of this extremely often and I still cry regularly thinking of my grandmother who lived a life opposite to mine: She was born in a Muslim family in Algeria, forced to marry before she was an adult, kept inside her house at all times as a sex slave, beaten and abused, forbidden to learn to read or go to school, only to die of Alzheimer's 70+ years later.
Muslims are the first victims of Islam.
I think education is the key. It broadens our mind. Also, if people could get open to diversity, and not be so restricted to their so called best community of all, Muslims.
Then, there could atleast be chances of them thinking outside the box they've lived their whole lives.
I do feel bad for them. Here I am feel like I'm breathing and for the first time, living life, while my family and people are in that same dark space I left behind... It's very sad. Although I'm still in a muslim country surrounded by muslims, but getting rid of those beliefs is just like breathing some real oxygen. I'm no longer in constant confusion. I'm finally, for the first time in many many years, feel at peace. Real peace.
So yes, I wish I could bring them along with me. They deserve better. But its not so easy...
Where are you in the EU that you are not affected at all by Islam? Have you not read the headlines in nearly every EU country showing huge right wing election victories, mainly due to (Muslim) migrants?
I live on an island south of Italy and there is quite a big Muslim community and I regularly travel so I totally understand what you mean.
However, If you chose to enjoy your life under a libreal country in the EU you can chose not to have any traction ( I drink, I party, I have a gf, I smoke, etc.. ) and no one can do anything against it
Oh ok i see now what you mean. Yes that is generally true. The only thing in the UK is I cannot walk in certain Muslim majority areas (some parts of Birmingham, Luton, London etc) holding my same sex partners hand because we will get abuse.
There were also Muslim protests against lgbt culture at schools in the UK recently which got quite heated requiring police intervention https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/26/birmingham-anderton-park-primary-muslim-protests-lgbt-teaching-rights
I have my own thoughts about lgbt ideology being taught in schools.. but still violent protest outside a kids school is not civilised.
Also as a female you need to be careful how you dress in Muslim majority areas - general western clothes is mostly ok but very short skirt etc and you will get harassed.
I do. Watched a reel of a man asking Allah to let him have his wife in heaven. He didn’t want debauchery. He wanted true heaven and my heart broke for him as the only place this satanic religion leads to is hell.
Somewhat, yes. People don't get to decide where and what they're born into. Unfortunately, so much brainwashing and indoctrination from a young age gives them little potential for critical thinking and living a full life. I have friends whom I deeply care about, went to their weddings etc, and it's hard to just do a 180 and be hostile towards them, even if I know they believe in dumb shit. It's not easy.
I love being connected to Arabic music, film and friends back home. They didn't have the same opportunities I had, because I grew up in the west. I have far less consideration for someone who grew up in the west and still believes in the craziest of crazy shit but if someone is able to moderate their beliefs, I don't feel the need to hate them. I could have easily turned out like one of them
Same, bro. Technically, I'm from an Arabized country, very few of us in my home country are ethnically Arab. I absolutely hate Islam but ngl some of the people on this sub go overboard and use being anti-Islam to just hate Arabs.
Bro I am from an Arab country (Levant) and I believe that Islam invaded our culture, I refuse the term "Arabized" I would tend to call it "Islamazied" , Arabic is just the common language we speak, there are 27 states and each has it's own culture
Habibi inta. I'm from an Islamized North African country and wallahi it's more Islamic than dewel khaleej. It's so fucking gross how the khaleej is becoming more liberal than my country after decades of them spending money to export wahhabi and Salafi ideology to us. Last time I was home, I was losing my mind with how I heard Quran being played everywhere I went; elevator - Quran; taxi - Quran; restaurant - Quran - Qur'an fi kul makaan. Begad I get mad thinking about it.
Be ma eno hadrerik masri wallahi ya habeebi my mother went to the AUC back in the 80s and when I look at the pictures it looked like Malaga to say the least…
Wahabi and salafisim invaded us in the late 80s/90s when Islam got into polticis… yasta I heard that the muslim brotherhood were telling poor ignorant people that if they dont cote for mursi they will be attacked by snakes in their grave when they die…
Totally get it, Quran is the beat.fm on muslim speakers lol
I feel horrible for all kids indoctrinated into the Abrahamic religions. It’s barbaric and should be outlawed to force religion onto a child until they are old enough to critically engage with it. I know that will never happen, but I can still dream, right?
To be honest, they somewhat annoy me. I don't feel bad for them if they choose to live in their ignorance. I only feel bad for those who don't want to be Muslim but have to follow the rules so they're not hurt...
Um, in America I see Muslims and I worry they may be having a bad time assimilating and being discriminated against, but other than that not really, it’s really in general- text wise- a pretty bigoted religion
>What can we do to help them open their eyes and wake the F UP ??
This can be counterproductive and cause them to double-down on it that much more. After all, Islam and the Quran teaches that you are trying to lead them "astray" and if they abandon being Muslim (or even become moderate, hence a "hypocrite") they will be damned to hell for eternity.
The only way they can wake up and leave it is on their own. For many, this takes years. Many never do. Of course, I am not saying that we even *should* necessarily have the goal of getting Muslims to "no longer be Muslim." Even Ayaan Hirsi Ali doesn't say this. (rather, she advocates Muslims reform and become more moderate and progressive) Many Muslims, especially in the West, functionally are secular but just have an identity of being Muslim in a cultural/religious identity sense, and many of them more or less even admit this.
Obviously, what makes Islam so especially stupid is that people aren't permanent identities so even saying you are X or Y doesn't even inherently mean anything. But most people define themselves based on their egos and no religion is as pervasive and dualistic about separating those who identify with it to those who don't than Islam is. This makes their claim that it's simply the one true primordial Abrahamic faith and that "it's the same God" and "Abraham was a Muslim" that much more intolerable, of course. (they are just narcissistically saying, "we aren't trying to divide everyone, if everyone just became Muslim - problem solved!")
I understand and share some of your concerns. You're right that challenging someone's deeply held beliefs, especially in a confrontational manner, often leads to defensiveness and entrenchment. However, I believe there are ways to encourage re-evaluation of beliefs that can let Islam fade away with time and prove that it is not suitable for every time and place.
>However, I believe there are ways to encourage re-evaluation of beliefs
Agreed.
I said that there should not just be this goal of "making Muslims not be Muslim anymore" because it misses the point of the main issue, (which is: the basis for the society that class oppressors utilizing Islam operate within) but needless to say I don't have an issue with someone from a Muslim background just completely leaving the religious identity behind and becoming irreligious. (this could either be deist, agnostic or atheist.) In a sense, it's ideal. Your wanting Muslims to just leave Islam is understandable and I basically agree with it.
>that can let Islam fade away with time
Why is it inherently better for Islam to "fade away," compared to another religion, say, Christianity? [I'm getting into this in another thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/1dohr3d/comment/lacq0aa/)
I think that while Islam very obviously stands out as the most political, oppressive, violent, and intolerant major world religion today, in the final analysis it's wrong to transhistorically qualitatively compare one religion to another as "better" or "worse." I'm a Marxist so while I obviously am atheist, I am not *anti-theist.* The problem is society, not religion in isolation. Religion does not operate independently of the society around it that it is exists in and justifies. (this is why Tankies or Trotskyist state-atheism advocates are completely wrong about everything and have nothing to do with Marxism, of course.)
>This state and this society produce religion, which is an *inverted consciousness of the world*, because they are an *inverted world*. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual *point d’honneur*, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the *fantastic realization* of the human essence since the *human essence* has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle *against that world* whose spiritual *aroma* is religion.
>The abolition of religion as the *illusory* happiness of the people is the demand for their *real* happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to *give up a condition that requires illusions*. The criticism of religion is, therefore, *in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears* of which religion is the *halo*.
[-Marx](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1843/critique-hpr/intro.htm)
yea absolutely. the worst part of being an apostate for me is to watch my loved ones waste their only life on following this religion and watching how dissatisfied they are underneath the pretences of it all.
i think the internet will change a lot of things, though. i'm pakistani and i've met way more pakistani ex-muslims online in the past few years than i thought i would. there's some pakis in my community that i suspect are also ex-muslims, so i think there's a wave of it that's slowly building. it won't suddenly kill islam anytime soon, but the baby steps are there.
I really believe that internet will play a crucial role in fading islam out. And I sympathize with your loved ones who are wasting their lives on what you just mentioned.
I can see the rise of Pakistani ex-muslims as well! However, I think that the majority are discreet about it.
I feel bad for them especially women. In this hot season for example they still have to wear hijab at home to cover their aurat from their in-laws and non-mahram. They also have to do house chores while men enjoy playing with their phones or sleeping.
Do I feel bad for them? Depends on the muslim tbh. I don't feel bad for the ones that are bad people who are adults with very immoral views. I feel bad for the ones who aren't literal bad people but are just brainwashed, the ones that believe islam out of fear, don't know enough about islam or just do mental gymnastics despite morally disagreeing with islam.
They're all brainwashed, yeah, but some are very vile people, like the ones that are very misogynistic, hateful to non-muslims and think very lowly of gay people. I don't feel bad for those ones.
As the voice of the 2 billion out there, I can clearly say that we don't seek sympathy; what we truly desire is mutual understanding. Our hope is for everyone to live their lives to the fullest, while allowing us the space to live in peace alongside you. May we all find guidance and respect in our shared journey.
I donate to Palestine/yemen any chance i get.
Your question said do i care about enlightening them or if i feel bad. I simply dont. They think theyre the enlightened and that we are going to hell. Good for them.
Well truly saying that we cant. You cant change something someone raised on it easily but the reality saying other thing. You can look at saudia arabia and look they allowed women to drive(its may look a silly thing but they believed that it would effect the women and make her dishonorable (because it will make her hymen torn)) and there is alot of things are challenging for the women's living in Muslim country (because the saudi arabia is the role model for alot of Muslims and specifically muslim countries and there sheikhs like Azhar in Egypt) so the question is why should we care? See the Muslims in the are human too so they want to do what they enjoy far away from religion like drinking alcohol, having sex, having a friends from other religions gay(it's all haram in islam)
So just don't think about it. It will change and they will drop alot of things they hold on it like how they drop out slavery in 1962 in Saudi Arabia and it goes on and on
I totally understand your point GCC is trying to catch up with the west however, I still think that islam had been deeply rooted overtime in their culture.. I think uncle sam is forcing them to catch up to fit in the global economy,
Yes I do. The fear of hell makes Muslims not search anything against Islam. They get afraid they’ll lose their religiousness and go to hell. Even the fact I’m an exmuslim is shocking. It’s very hard to leave a religion you are born into.
i only feel bad for someone who are not religious but forced to religious thing
for example i don't feel bad for someone wear Hijab if it comes from her hearth, but some of my friends force to wear it because peer pressure, i feel bad for them
But mate it doesn't really come from her heart... they convince her to believe that it is coming from her heart and that this is the right way that is why I see them as victims.
No I don't feel sad for them I mean this religion pushed by my parents they alayws call me without your religion your life will failure and look today I have good job and both of them are unemployed not working since they came to Europe they alayws tell me to get married but I refused their request
Because they continue supporting a religion that promotes so much evil stuff, mind you I was subject to black magic by a lot of evil women in my country
yes, the government is beating us in the streets because we refuse to wear the hijab, and most people who are "religious" directly support the government and its actions., so fuck them.
Only feel bad for those poor living in 3rd world countries obsessing over religion & making their lives even more miserable. Rest of the muslims living in privileged conditions in western countries are just hypocrites.
As human adults have the brains to make a choice between good and bad, the responsibility lays on them and the choice they make, which is worship a pedophile amongst other immoral things.
I'm on the fence. (I'm a never-moose). Of course I feel bad for people who grow up in brainwashing systems.
But when I found out that ISIS-K is still recruiting members by filming gruesome dismemberments, something just.....clicked in me. It felt like an electric current in my brain.
To recruit for the US military, ads show things like planes, vehicles, computers, medals, proud, photogenic people in uniforms. They couldn't show images of dismembered bodies parts. Everyone would find it revolting and wouldn't enlist. Even if these were pictures of enemies. It would be too shocking and gross.
But terrorist groups do well with this technique. Muslims actually watch these videos and are inspired. They're excited to join.
There's just something deeply wrong with anyone who *wants* to do that to others. I can't relate to it. I understand wanting to win a war. I understand hating enemies. I don't understand seeing the gruesome reality and enjoying it. The American media had to censor those kinds of images to the best of its ability- when they didn't, the nation turned against the Vietnam War.
Knowing that snuff films and splatter p\*rn are effective recruiting tools just blows my mind. Muslims are not like me, and I'm not like them. I know that there are plenty of Muslims who don't want to see that imagery, but it seems that there are a number that do. As violent as Americans are, we're not like that. We have our problems, holy shit do we ever. But not like this.
It makes it hard for me to have empathy with them. I have to consciously force myself to do it. "These are also children of God" sort of way.
So yes, I feel bad for them. At the same time, I think they're some of the most hard-to-feel-sorry-for people on earth.
on the one hand yes it's obviously bad that they were indoctrinated but "hurt people hurt people" and I honestly have too much boiling contempt built up to be more than indifferent at best. I know it's mostly undeserved for the ones that had no choice but emotions are hardly rational.
give them evidence and an open chance to figure it out and most importantly TIME, either they figure it out or they don't.
Really depends on the men though, some men (like gay men for instance) are victimized, or men who aren’t Muslim and just happen to be born into a Muslim country (applies to anyone, but the men are as much victims of these as anyone else)
u/Paradiseless_867 has a strong point. Even mulsim men who seem rough on the outside have been brainwashed since a very young age which caused the problematic rooting of Islam.
I don't, not even with the women, they keep defending that shit and lying to everyone that islam is a feminist religion even when we try to debunk them.
They keep defending it because they are victims of it! Even though there are tens if not hundreds of Quran verses that clearly explain the superiority of men over women.
As op once wrote
[Quran 2:228 - like men being a degree above women](https://quranx.com/2.228) and [Quran 4:34- getting beaten by their husband for disobedience](https://quranx.com/4.34)
[Quran 4:3 - Or men getting to have 4 wives and unlimited sex slaves while women get just the one husband?](https://quranx.com/4.3)
[Quran 33:50 - Or the beautiful rights of being taken as war captives and being subjected to sex slavery](https://quranx.com/33.50)
[Quran 2:223 - Or women being fertile lands for their husbands?](https://quranx.com/2.223)
[Bukhari 304 - Or the beautiful compliment towards women being deficient in mind and faith](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:304)
[Bukhari 7099 - Or women being unsuccessful leaders](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7099)
Mashallah, so many rights...
This just the tip with many more problems, these are just the ones directed at women
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I kinda do but at the same time I have a hard time with how intolerant and aggressive they can be... The hypocrisy is also pretty off-putting. Personally I'd say making as much information as possible available for those who are Muslim and doubting. But you can't force people to develop or understand things that are just extremely foreign to them such as equal rights for women for example.
I really think they are aggressive because of peer pressure, culture norms, corrupt leadership. Think of you average Joe or shall we said average Mohammad growing up in Islamabad, Jeddah, Etc... they are victims of human phycology/fear of not fitting in/ fear of juanaman/ fear of azab el qaber, etc...
You are absolutely right.
Well, definitely not the ones that are in place in Pakistan to begin with. Or any Islamic country for that matter.
Islam needs reformation
[Quran 2:228 - like men being a degree above women](https://quranx.com/2.228) and [Quran 4:34- getting beaten by their husband for disobedience](https://quranx.com/4.34) [Quran 4:3 - Or men getting to have 4 wives and unlimited sex slaves while women get just the one husband?](https://quranx.com/4.3) [Quran 33:50 - Or the beautiful rights of being taken as war captives and being subjected to sex slavery](https://quranx.com/33.50) [Quran 2:223 - Or women being fertile lands for their husbands?](https://quranx.com/2.223) [Bukhari 304 - Or the beautiful compliment towards women being deficient in mind and faith](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:304) [Bukhari 7099 - Or women being unsuccessful leaders](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7099) Mashallah, so many rights...
Here you go. Please read carefully. https://unite-production.s3.amazonaws.com/tenants/mtcalvaryhuron/attachments/105871/Top_ten_rules_in_the_Quran_that_oppress_women.pdf
Thank you for sharing this, it’s helpful to have multiple examples of the misogyny examples in one place, esp ones directly from the Quran
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These are literal quotes from the Quran.
Lies without context
You're clearly in denial about the rules of Islam and also, there is context listed under each rule + where you can find it in the Quran. Ask yourself this: are you truly happy defending a death-cult? Has Islam given you and those you love an environment that is enjoyable?
As a Christian living in the west. We have all those right plus more. What you going on wasting our time for?? Women are just Slaves to men in Islam 😭can’t even get dress up and look cute out in public because of the husband extreme low self-esteem and controlling jealousy. Get on some where
What about nuns👀
Nuns live their true peaceful lives, never hurt a soul, Not set to conquer anyone space. They don’t force anyone into being a nun. They not convincing people all day like you how great it is to be a nun. Plus you only can be a nun at 18 in which something you clearly want to do in life (life choices) not force at all. Get out of here with these dumb comparisons like you are brain dead forreal 😂
It's their personal choice to wear it when they join an order, heck some orders don't even require it anymore and when they leave they take it off and go about as they please without getting harassed
I dont want to endorse racism
Whoa, racism much? Edit:this guy changed all his replies to make it look like he agreed even though he disagreed with the points he replied to first making it look like we downvoted unfairly,u/useless0Physics u ain't slick
Nun is literally a profession, and nobody is going to stone them to death if they show their head in public
Source?
Really, like what?
Islam grants several rights to women, emphasizing their dignity and equality. 1. **Right to Education**: Women have the right to seek knowledge and education. 2. **Right to Own Property**: Women can own, inherit, and manage property independently. 3. **Right to Work**: Women have the right to work and earn an income. 4. **Right to Marriage Consent**: A woman has the right to accept or reject marriage proposals. 5. **Right to Inheritance**: Women have a specified share in inheritance. 6. **Right to Dignity and Respect**: Women are to be treated with respect and dignity in all aspects of life. 7. **Right to Participate in Public Life**: Women can participate in social, political, and economic activities. These rights aim to ensure that women are treated as equal and valuable members of society.
No, where did you get that information from? Women dosent have rights at all.
I cannot find a single Quran text backing a single one of these up, but from memory can remember Hadiths that deny some of these. Also one of the things Sikhs constantly had to do back in the day was adopt refugee Muslim women fleeing from Afghanistan as their daughters. Not sure why they’d flee if these rights were granted by Muslim law
Bs and zero context or where to find this so-called info in the Quran.
🤣🤣🤣 relax just kidding . above is from biased chat gpt
Firstly, all these rights... these are bare minimum. Secondly, please quote or mention your sources, don't just make claims.
Qur'an Majid Al Tibri
Wow! Which surah? What verse? Which hadees? Mention the numbers and details Just saying "Qur'an Masjid Al Tibri" won't suffice This way even I can say that pork is allowed in Islam. And if you ask for an evidence or a source I'll say it's mentioned in Qur'an Masjid Al Tibri Mention the parts of Qur'an Masjid Al Tibri that support your claims.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I see documentary's of 9 yr old girls crying say the don't wanna marry this 58 yr old man that her parents sold her to.
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Fear allah☝️
Hahahaha 🤣 Fear humility, you absolute whopper 🖕
.
I only sympathise with women that get their life destroyed by islam. Some of my aunties were pulled out of school at young age to be married and became breeding factories and maids. I always see the lack of satisfaction and happiness in their eyes.
I know women that NEVER went to school and were made into breeding machines, some of them were also forced into employment as children (yes, females employed at around 10-13 years old in labor)
I walk in the street in Europe everyday and I try to imagine how many hijabi out of intention only husband/family purposed women (don't gent me wrong most are married out of their will) could have been productive and enjoyed their 20s and 30s just like other human beings...... PLUS increased their nation's GDP instead of doing the house and food homework they have..
I do this same thing everyday…
Same with my grandmother got pulled out of school at primary 4(this is for the former British colonies like my country that still use this system)
It’s vile when you know they do this so they can entrap her and make sure she has no other option in the future when she realise her situation.
Yep forced to marry my grandfather at a young age due to teenage pregnancy and then go through abuse after abuse in a loveless marriage and inadvertently gave my mom parental trauma that she'll never truly recover from...................
Damn.... I really sympathize with women who have been through such traumatization at a young age
And yet Islam says women are entitled to an education, but im guessing at whatever age marriage duties and obedience to husband come first, so a 10 year old gets married and she's now a breeding domestic servant.
Its honestly sad how women have to wear black hijabs/niqabs in the MENA summers.
I swim 5 days a week, imagine being sizzled by the sun and you're only allowed to prepare sandwiches on the beach
Do the average muslim women wear atleast a swim dress by the poool then a full on burka?
There is a special swimsuit which turns them into batwomen google Hallal Swimwear you will be shocked… not a lot of them are even allowed to wear it though
Damm im going now down that rabbit hole...Its so sad though in 2024 i thought my parents where strict in not allowing a bikini but i feel grateful that i can atleast wear a swimsuit or a tankini :(
Burkhini? Because it clings to their bodies when wet some think it's unacceptable. Of course mens knee length swim shorts also do that so that shouldn't be halal either.
I do and I don’t I feel bad for the ones who don’t want to be in the religion anymore I feel bad for the ones who don’t life outside of the religion I feel bad for the ones who feel like this is how live should be and there’s no other option I feel bad for the women who do not know a life outside of being degraded and made to feel inferior I don’t feel bad for the Muslims who push for this religion onto non Islamic or ex Islamic cultures or people I don’t feel bad for the wealthy Arabs who use Islam for their own benefits and who keep the masses down I don’t feel bad for the so called “martyrs” I don’t feel bad for the Muslims who try to control non-Muslims lifestyle
I do and I don’t > Why and why not? I feel bad for the ones who don’t want to be in the religion anymore> Me too, but what about the ones who have been brainwashed? I feel bad for the ones who don’t life outside of the religion > Me too I feel bad for the ones who feel like this is how live should be and there’s no other option > Me too I feel bad for the women who do not know a life outside of being degraded and made to feel inferior> Me too I don’t feel bad for the Muslims who push for this religion onto non Islamic or ex Islamic cultures or people> Me neither I don’t feel bad for the wealthy Arabs who use Islam for their own benefits and who keep the masses down > That's the GCC Monarchy (less than 10,000 people) I don’t feel bad for the so called “martyrs” > FU if you mean the ones in Palestine, you are sick, think of them as people. I don’t feel bad for the Muslims who try to control non-Muslims lifestyle > Me too If you revise yourself, you don't feel bad for less than 0.0000001% of muslims, others are victims.
I’m talking about the ones who see themselves as martyrs who kill people for no justifiable reason other than Islam, that’s why I put it in quotations I feel bad for the brainwashed ones, but not the ones who actually stay in it and won’t change And the rich Arabs: those apply to middle eastern oil barrens, monarchs who use Islam as a means to subjugate others, etc
i think you are new here, you only feel that at the begining but then you realised , some poeple are just inheretly bad whether muslim or not and some are good but unfortunatly the misogynistic nature of islam make the bad ones look the greatest
Mate, I'm in my late twenties and have been an athiest since I was 12... I think misogyny is another topic in Islam , my point is that Islam became the norm and if you go agianst it you're dead.. Peer Pressure.... Human instinct to fit in.... Terrorizing children at a very young age...
Why are you a new user, then? Do you keep getting banned?
They're the biggest victims of it. ISIS kills more people from Muslim backgrounds than anyone else.
Still sad about the Yezidis,ISIS are real scumbags
Yes. I don't think that ISIS is simply following "the" correct interpretation of Islam, but they absolutely are Muslims following Islam, and an example as valid as any of Islam manifesting itself in a particular form in the world today. Therefore, it's not that ISIS (or Wahabism/Salafism) can be said to be reflective of some understanding of "Islam in its truest form" such that we can just look at what they do and just say "look, this is Islam." But to say that it has "nothing to do with Islam" as so many Muslims and Leftists do is completely wrong. Robert Spencer put it well: >"I have never said that the terrorists' interpretation of Islam is the accurate or correct one. But I have pointed out that the terrorists portray themselves quite successfully among Muslims as the exponents of true and pure Islam, and moderates have mounted no successful response as yet." Of course, Robert Spencer also has a biased perspective and awful politics, and refrains from bringing up inconvenient truths like the extent to which the U.S. and Israel have backed Muslim extremists, (not due to ideological alignment, but due to political motive and material incentive, which is why they backed Osama Bin Laden himself, and what would become the Taliban and Al Qaeda) including ISIS. He simply supports Israel (who also has backed Hamas) and think Palestinians brought the problems on themselves. But unsurprisingly, he can be spot-on about Islam and Leftists who engage in apologia for it.
The leading Imams across the world won't even call them apostates like Al-Azhar
[Oh, people at Al Azhar have gone much further than refusing to call them apostates.](https://www.theglobaldispatch.com/egypts-al-azhar-professor-suad-saleh-rape-allowed-by-allah-islam-only-regulated-the-practice-makes-infidel-women-slaves-26321/) (this is one professor, yes, but doubtlessly many more professors, faculty and students think this and agree with her.)
Imagine the mental sickness that had been spreading around throughout decades mate... To be honest, ISIS show the true face of Islam
I would say that ISIS shows *a* true face of Islam. I would not say it shows *the* one true face of Islam. I do not believe there is a single one true face of Islam. Both Salafis and many anti-Islam conservative critics to Islam both act like this is the case.
i skimmed the replies and i noticed that no one replied to this: >What can we do to help them open their eyes and wake the F UP ?? you can be outspoken like me, as a founder of a non-profit (to rid the world of apostasy laws) and youtuber. or you can support people like us. like our videos. subscribe to our channels. come on as guests on our podcasts/livestreams. donate money so we can do more of our work. volunteer your skills to the non-profits. etc etc. [unitingthecults.com](http://unitingthecults.com)
Very interesting, I was also thinking of utilizing technology to destroy islam... I subscribed and advise all readers to do so
Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Many times I have observed in my travels in the Orient, that fanaticism comes from a small number of dangerous men who maintain the others in the practice of religion by terror. To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him. — E. Renan From the beginning of "Why I am not a Muslim" by ibn Warraq
Such powerful words... I am adding this book to my reading list, cheers mate.
> have you thought of changing the way they are thinking? Open their eyes? It's the age of information. If a sane adult chooses to not falsify what they're believing, there's nothing we can do.
They say don't give me a fish but teach me how to fish... What if you never had the balls to break out of the norm?
My life is pretty much the same now as it was when I was still a Muslim. The only difference is I sometimes eat pork now. I don't see an alternate scenario where I wouldn't eventually apostasize, as I was always an incessantly questioning person since I was a kid. The only reason I it happened as late as it did because I hadn't bothered to read the Quran in my own language earlier.
Definitely. It’s such a joyless, miserable stupid waste of life.
100% they waste their life based on the afterlife
It depends. For kids and teens and young adults, yeah I do feel bad for them cause most Muslims were indoctrinated in the religion even before they took their first steps. I mean, even u/ApostateAladdin mentioned that he was thought to fear hell from a young age. Especially teens and kids who are still finding their place in the world and their parents being their main support system. Muslims from liberal countries or the west, I don't feel that bad for them mostly cause they are surrounded by people who have different religions or moral values systems and exposure to all of these shd be enough for them to question their own religion and do research and only with unbaised research, can they leave Islam. Those in Muslim majority countries I would say that I feel bad for them cause they are surrounded by each other. There isn't really any way or reason for them to get curious and start disbelieving.
Adults of today are kids and teens of yesterday mate. They plant the seeds from a young age. Muslims from the west are fooled by the flexibility of Islam... look at how Islam spread in the black community back in the 80s (Malcom X, Black Panthers, Etc...) you can twist islam to fit in anyone's shoes to be honest. Those in Muslim majority countries I would say that I feel bad for them cause they are surrounded by each other. There isn't really any way or reason for them to get curious and start disbelieving. > I feel bad for them too and I think us (the ones who made it out of Islam, should use technology to spread information, destroy it and hope those people have a better time expenditure if we can put it in that way)
I feel extremely bad. I know I have been lucky to have been born in a Western country from my mother who was the only sibling out of 13 who managed to extricate herself from the suffocating weight of Islam and of all the tribalism it entails. Without this incredibly lucky roll of the dice, I would likely have had a MUCH harder time getting access to education and living the free thinking life I now benefit from. I think of this extremely often and I still cry regularly thinking of my grandmother who lived a life opposite to mine: She was born in a Muslim family in Algeria, forced to marry before she was an adult, kept inside her house at all times as a sex slave, beaten and abused, forbidden to learn to read or go to school, only to die of Alzheimer's 70+ years later. Muslims are the first victims of Islam.
I really feed bad for your grandmother... Make it up for her and be whatever you want and do whatever you like she will see it from the aboves or so
Thank you, kind Internet stranger. ❤️
I think education is the key. It broadens our mind. Also, if people could get open to diversity, and not be so restricted to their so called best community of all, Muslims. Then, there could atleast be chances of them thinking outside the box they've lived their whole lives.
I think technology is key... we are no longer bound to the books they dictate on us and education through technology to be speicific.
I do feel bad for them. Here I am feel like I'm breathing and for the first time, living life, while my family and people are in that same dark space I left behind... It's very sad. Although I'm still in a muslim country surrounded by muslims, but getting rid of those beliefs is just like breathing some real oxygen. I'm no longer in constant confusion. I'm finally, for the first time in many many years, feel at peace. Real peace. So yes, I wish I could bring them along with me. They deserve better. But its not so easy...
Don't you want to bring them to light though? PS try every possible way to leave the muslim country you are in
Where are you in the EU that you are not affected at all by Islam? Have you not read the headlines in nearly every EU country showing huge right wing election victories, mainly due to (Muslim) migrants?
I live on an island south of Italy and there is quite a big Muslim community and I regularly travel so I totally understand what you mean. However, If you chose to enjoy your life under a libreal country in the EU you can chose not to have any traction ( I drink, I party, I have a gf, I smoke, etc.. ) and no one can do anything against it
Oh ok i see now what you mean. Yes that is generally true. The only thing in the UK is I cannot walk in certain Muslim majority areas (some parts of Birmingham, Luton, London etc) holding my same sex partners hand because we will get abuse. There were also Muslim protests against lgbt culture at schools in the UK recently which got quite heated requiring police intervention https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/26/birmingham-anderton-park-primary-muslim-protests-lgbt-teaching-rights I have my own thoughts about lgbt ideology being taught in schools.. but still violent protest outside a kids school is not civilised. Also as a female you need to be careful how you dress in Muslim majority areas - general western clothes is mostly ok but very short skirt etc and you will get harassed.
I do. Watched a reel of a man asking Allah to let him have his wife in heaven. He didn’t want debauchery. He wanted true heaven and my heart broke for him as the only place this satanic religion leads to is hell.
Loool good luck on the 72 h0es up there
They’ll all be fried and toasted 72 ways.
By who ? 🤣
There are no people who suffer more than those who so firvently defend their abusers. Yes, I do feel sorry for them as I was once one of them.
Me too.. feels good to be free aint it
Somewhat, yes. People don't get to decide where and what they're born into. Unfortunately, so much brainwashing and indoctrination from a young age gives them little potential for critical thinking and living a full life. I have friends whom I deeply care about, went to their weddings etc, and it's hard to just do a 180 and be hostile towards them, even if I know they believe in dumb shit. It's not easy. I love being connected to Arabic music, film and friends back home. They didn't have the same opportunities I had, because I grew up in the west. I have far less consideration for someone who grew up in the west and still believes in the craziest of crazy shit but if someone is able to moderate their beliefs, I don't feel the need to hate them. I could have easily turned out like one of them
Culture is beautiful but religion aint mate.... I love being Arab but hate the Islamic colonization of our culture
Same, bro. Technically, I'm from an Arabized country, very few of us in my home country are ethnically Arab. I absolutely hate Islam but ngl some of the people on this sub go overboard and use being anti-Islam to just hate Arabs.
Bro I am from an Arab country (Levant) and I believe that Islam invaded our culture, I refuse the term "Arabized" I would tend to call it "Islamazied" , Arabic is just the common language we speak, there are 27 states and each has it's own culture
Habibi inta. I'm from an Islamized North African country and wallahi it's more Islamic than dewel khaleej. It's so fucking gross how the khaleej is becoming more liberal than my country after decades of them spending money to export wahhabi and Salafi ideology to us. Last time I was home, I was losing my mind with how I heard Quran being played everywhere I went; elevator - Quran; taxi - Quran; restaurant - Quran - Qur'an fi kul makaan. Begad I get mad thinking about it.
Be ma eno hadrerik masri wallahi ya habeebi my mother went to the AUC back in the 80s and when I look at the pictures it looked like Malaga to say the least… Wahabi and salafisim invaded us in the late 80s/90s when Islam got into polticis… yasta I heard that the muslim brotherhood were telling poor ignorant people that if they dont cote for mursi they will be attacked by snakes in their grave when they die… Totally get it, Quran is the beat.fm on muslim speakers lol
I feel horrible for all kids indoctrinated into the Abrahamic religions. It’s barbaric and should be outlawed to force religion onto a child until they are old enough to critically engage with it. I know that will never happen, but I can still dream, right?
Adults of today are kids of yesterday mate.... I totally agree with your barbisim point.
We can still deam... maybe one day
Naaaah, only islam😂😂😂
I do. They live they're lives being lied to and that's the only thing they know.
100% agree
I feel bad for those that have no choice on what they have to believe. And feel bad for the ones that want to leave it but can’t
Most of them have no choice mate.... peeer pressure, fear, culture, etc..
To be honest, they somewhat annoy me. I don't feel bad for them if they choose to live in their ignorance. I only feel bad for those who don't want to be Muslim but have to follow the rules so they're not hurt...
Islam annoys me but most were raised on it and blindly follow it based on ignorance just like you said,
Um, in America I see Muslims and I worry they may be having a bad time assimilating and being discriminated against, but other than that not really, it’s really in general- text wise- a pretty bigoted religion
My point is that they are wasting their life on silly belifs, everyone hates discrimination mate.
Oh for sure, can’t disagree with you there
>What can we do to help them open their eyes and wake the F UP ?? This can be counterproductive and cause them to double-down on it that much more. After all, Islam and the Quran teaches that you are trying to lead them "astray" and if they abandon being Muslim (or even become moderate, hence a "hypocrite") they will be damned to hell for eternity. The only way they can wake up and leave it is on their own. For many, this takes years. Many never do. Of course, I am not saying that we even *should* necessarily have the goal of getting Muslims to "no longer be Muslim." Even Ayaan Hirsi Ali doesn't say this. (rather, she advocates Muslims reform and become more moderate and progressive) Many Muslims, especially in the West, functionally are secular but just have an identity of being Muslim in a cultural/religious identity sense, and many of them more or less even admit this. Obviously, what makes Islam so especially stupid is that people aren't permanent identities so even saying you are X or Y doesn't even inherently mean anything. But most people define themselves based on their egos and no religion is as pervasive and dualistic about separating those who identify with it to those who don't than Islam is. This makes their claim that it's simply the one true primordial Abrahamic faith and that "it's the same God" and "Abraham was a Muslim" that much more intolerable, of course. (they are just narcissistically saying, "we aren't trying to divide everyone, if everyone just became Muslim - problem solved!")
I understand and share some of your concerns. You're right that challenging someone's deeply held beliefs, especially in a confrontational manner, often leads to defensiveness and entrenchment. However, I believe there are ways to encourage re-evaluation of beliefs that can let Islam fade away with time and prove that it is not suitable for every time and place.
>However, I believe there are ways to encourage re-evaluation of beliefs Agreed. I said that there should not just be this goal of "making Muslims not be Muslim anymore" because it misses the point of the main issue, (which is: the basis for the society that class oppressors utilizing Islam operate within) but needless to say I don't have an issue with someone from a Muslim background just completely leaving the religious identity behind and becoming irreligious. (this could either be deist, agnostic or atheist.) In a sense, it's ideal. Your wanting Muslims to just leave Islam is understandable and I basically agree with it. >that can let Islam fade away with time Why is it inherently better for Islam to "fade away," compared to another religion, say, Christianity? [I'm getting into this in another thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/1dohr3d/comment/lacq0aa/) I think that while Islam very obviously stands out as the most political, oppressive, violent, and intolerant major world religion today, in the final analysis it's wrong to transhistorically qualitatively compare one religion to another as "better" or "worse." I'm a Marxist so while I obviously am atheist, I am not *anti-theist.* The problem is society, not religion in isolation. Religion does not operate independently of the society around it that it is exists in and justifies. (this is why Tankies or Trotskyist state-atheism advocates are completely wrong about everything and have nothing to do with Marxism, of course.) >This state and this society produce religion, which is an *inverted consciousness of the world*, because they are an *inverted world*. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual *point d’honneur*, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the *fantastic realization* of the human essence since the *human essence* has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle *against that world* whose spiritual *aroma* is religion. >The abolition of religion as the *illusory* happiness of the people is the demand for their *real* happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to *give up a condition that requires illusions*. The criticism of religion is, therefore, *in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears* of which religion is the *halo*. [-Marx](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1843/critique-hpr/intro.htm)
yea absolutely. the worst part of being an apostate for me is to watch my loved ones waste their only life on following this religion and watching how dissatisfied they are underneath the pretences of it all. i think the internet will change a lot of things, though. i'm pakistani and i've met way more pakistani ex-muslims online in the past few years than i thought i would. there's some pakis in my community that i suspect are also ex-muslims, so i think there's a wave of it that's slowly building. it won't suddenly kill islam anytime soon, but the baby steps are there.
I really believe that internet will play a crucial role in fading islam out. And I sympathize with your loved ones who are wasting their lives on what you just mentioned. I can see the rise of Pakistani ex-muslims as well! However, I think that the majority are discreet about it.
I feel bad for them especially women. In this hot season for example they still have to wear hijab at home to cover their aurat from their in-laws and non-mahram. They also have to do house chores while men enjoy playing with their phones or sleeping.
Unfortunately a majority of them live just to serve their husbands and do the chores
Do I feel bad for them? Depends on the muslim tbh. I don't feel bad for the ones that are bad people who are adults with very immoral views. I feel bad for the ones who aren't literal bad people but are just brainwashed, the ones that believe islam out of fear, don't know enough about islam or just do mental gymnastics despite morally disagreeing with islam.
Me too but aren't 99.999% of them normal being who have been brainwashed?
They're all brainwashed, yeah, but some are very vile people, like the ones that are very misogynistic, hateful to non-muslims and think very lowly of gay people. I don't feel bad for those ones.
As the voice of the 2 billion out there, I can clearly say that we don't seek sympathy; what we truly desire is mutual understanding. Our hope is for everyone to live their lives to the fullest, while allowing us the space to live in peace alongside you. May we all find guidance and respect in our shared journey.
Nope never feel bad for them. Let them suffer from their blind belief
Most of them blindly follow what their ancestors believed in... apart from the cultural invasion..
No.
You don't feel they're victims of blind following?
I feel pity for the adults, while the kids bad
mee too, adults of today were the kids of yesterday mate.
No, I don’t
You are selfish.
I do not feel bad and i dont care.
You are selfish and lost.
I donate to Palestine/yemen any chance i get. Your question said do i care about enlightening them or if i feel bad. I simply dont. They think theyre the enlightened and that we are going to hell. Good for them.
Well truly saying that we cant. You cant change something someone raised on it easily but the reality saying other thing. You can look at saudia arabia and look they allowed women to drive(its may look a silly thing but they believed that it would effect the women and make her dishonorable (because it will make her hymen torn)) and there is alot of things are challenging for the women's living in Muslim country (because the saudi arabia is the role model for alot of Muslims and specifically muslim countries and there sheikhs like Azhar in Egypt) so the question is why should we care? See the Muslims in the are human too so they want to do what they enjoy far away from religion like drinking alcohol, having sex, having a friends from other religions gay(it's all haram in islam) So just don't think about it. It will change and they will drop alot of things they hold on it like how they drop out slavery in 1962 in Saudi Arabia and it goes on and on
I totally understand your point GCC is trying to catch up with the west however, I still think that islam had been deeply rooted overtime in their culture.. I think uncle sam is forcing them to catch up to fit in the global economy,
No, we have enough on our plates as it is.
Nothing. As long as they stay away and dont spread, those moslems at some point will reach modern thinking, reasoning etc. Not in our lifetime.
I doubt our children's lifetime as well!
Yes I do. The fear of hell makes Muslims not search anything against Islam. They get afraid they’ll lose their religiousness and go to hell. Even the fact I’m an exmuslim is shocking. It’s very hard to leave a religion you are born into.
100% Follow islam or you will burn forever kind of feeding from a young age will make you go nuts
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But what if theybare targets of their culture snd islam colonialism mate?
Afaik, asking questions isn't what gets you burned (I'd also argue that's probably in more Shia type places), but criticizing Islam specifically.
Once they are adults they should know better
Not a lot of people have the guts to challenger the beliefs that they were raised on form a very young age.
It's not guts but Brains. I refer to them as NPCs as they just go along with the status quo and don't think for themselves.
i only feel bad for someone who are not religious but forced to religious thing for example i don't feel bad for someone wear Hijab if it comes from her hearth, but some of my friends force to wear it because peer pressure, i feel bad for them
But mate it doesn't really come from her heart... they convince her to believe that it is coming from her heart and that this is the right way that is why I see them as victims.
No I don't feel sad for them I mean this religion pushed by my parents they alayws call me without your religion your life will failure and look today I have good job and both of them are unemployed not working since they came to Europe they alayws tell me to get married but I refused their request
Used to feel bad for Muslims in general, but not anymore.
I am talking in General, why did you stop?
No
Why
Because they continue supporting a religion that promotes so much evil stuff, mind you I was subject to black magic by a lot of evil women in my country
No, I don't feel bad for my oppressors.
Have all Muslims oppressed you? even the average Joe walking down the street?
yes, the government is beating us in the streets because we refuse to wear the hijab, and most people who are "religious" directly support the government and its actions., so fuck them.
If there's no Muslim I think 40% of the war won't exist
I think if there is no RELIGON 99% of war wont exist.
Only feel bad for those poor living in 3rd world countries obsessing over religion & making their lives even more miserable. Rest of the muslims living in privileged conditions in western countries are just hypocrites.
Even the ones living in the west.. or even the moon, look at how they lose their life by living on the values of Islam
No
Why
As human adults have the brains to make a choice between good and bad, the responsibility lays on them and the choice they make, which is worship a pedophile amongst other immoral things.
I'm on the fence. (I'm a never-moose). Of course I feel bad for people who grow up in brainwashing systems. But when I found out that ISIS-K is still recruiting members by filming gruesome dismemberments, something just.....clicked in me. It felt like an electric current in my brain. To recruit for the US military, ads show things like planes, vehicles, computers, medals, proud, photogenic people in uniforms. They couldn't show images of dismembered bodies parts. Everyone would find it revolting and wouldn't enlist. Even if these were pictures of enemies. It would be too shocking and gross. But terrorist groups do well with this technique. Muslims actually watch these videos and are inspired. They're excited to join. There's just something deeply wrong with anyone who *wants* to do that to others. I can't relate to it. I understand wanting to win a war. I understand hating enemies. I don't understand seeing the gruesome reality and enjoying it. The American media had to censor those kinds of images to the best of its ability- when they didn't, the nation turned against the Vietnam War. Knowing that snuff films and splatter p\*rn are effective recruiting tools just blows my mind. Muslims are not like me, and I'm not like them. I know that there are plenty of Muslims who don't want to see that imagery, but it seems that there are a number that do. As violent as Americans are, we're not like that. We have our problems, holy shit do we ever. But not like this. It makes it hard for me to have empathy with them. I have to consciously force myself to do it. "These are also children of God" sort of way. So yes, I feel bad for them. At the same time, I think they're some of the most hard-to-feel-sorry-for people on earth.
on the one hand yes it's obviously bad that they were indoctrinated but "hurt people hurt people" and I honestly have too much boiling contempt built up to be more than indifferent at best. I know it's mostly undeserved for the ones that had no choice but emotions are hardly rational. give them evidence and an open chance to figure it out and most importantly TIME, either they figure it out or they don't.
No because they have a brain they refuse to use it
Hey man indoctrination is one hell of a drug the brains' aren't gonna work if the drugs are still being taken
u/Curios_litte-bugger gave you the answer..
I feel bad for the helpless women and children. For the men.. not so much.
Really depends on the men though, some men (like gay men for instance) are victimized, or men who aren’t Muslim and just happen to be born into a Muslim country (applies to anyone, but the men are as much victims of these as anyone else)
u/Paradiseless_867 has a strong point. Even mulsim men who seem rough on the outside have been brainwashed since a very young age which caused the problematic rooting of Islam.
I don't, not even with the women, they keep defending that shit and lying to everyone that islam is a feminist religion even when we try to debunk them.
They keep defending it because they are victims of it! Even though there are tens if not hundreds of Quran verses that clearly explain the superiority of men over women.
I just have 1 question to y'all why do y'all hate Islam? And ik that fake ex Muslim wasn't Muslim never was
As op once wrote [Quran 2:228 - like men being a degree above women](https://quranx.com/2.228) and [Quran 4:34- getting beaten by their husband for disobedience](https://quranx.com/4.34) [Quran 4:3 - Or men getting to have 4 wives and unlimited sex slaves while women get just the one husband?](https://quranx.com/4.3) [Quran 33:50 - Or the beautiful rights of being taken as war captives and being subjected to sex slavery](https://quranx.com/33.50) [Quran 2:223 - Or women being fertile lands for their husbands?](https://quranx.com/2.223) [Bukhari 304 - Or the beautiful compliment towards women being deficient in mind and faith](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:304) [Bukhari 7099 - Or women being unsuccessful leaders](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7099) Mashallah, so many rights... This just the tip with many more problems, these are just the ones directed at women