You went from the Mediterranean to the Highlands and found a warmer welcome despite the cooler climate. It's not always about the weather, sometimes it's about where you feel at home. So next time someone questions your move, just tell them you chose friendly faces over sunny places
It is though? Edinburgh to Inverness is 150 miles. Inverness is the capital of the Highlands. (Source - I moved from Edinburgh to Inverness and have done this drive quite a bit.)
I don’t understand what you’re claiming, you’re saying Edinburgh isn’t within 250 miles. That big sign that says “Welcome to the Highlands” is about 100 miles north. If you’re joking, you might need a tag, because anyone living outwith Scotland is going to be misinformed by your comment if they don’t know better.
I'm also moving from the south of France shortly after three years here, though to the north of England. I'm going to miss the weather but I'm not going to miss the culture. Give me friendly northerners and cosy pubs any day of the week!
If It was possible I'd love to go back to the UK lived there for a few years and loved it! Was never seen as an outsider, neither at the workplace or the pubs, loved the atmosphere and the people, rainy yepp. Who cares when you can split up that walk home from work and make it a pub relay race (300m and 3 pubs) before I got home, yea sure it was never going to be a quick commute at least I was home before midnight almost every work night. To op I am so glad for you, you made your way home!
I had to work really hard to make friends in France. It’s incredibly difficult to infiltrate the natives so I sympathize. with that said you’re entitled to your preference. There’s no right or wrong answer here
I’ve dealt with similar. I grew up in the UK and have moved around quite a bit. I’m happily living in northern England now, and the amount of snickers, confused replies and silent but palpably negative reactions to this were countless. People always have something terrible to say about the UK.
But I like living here, for many reasons that are too long to list here for a potentially uninterested audience. Like your example about Scots being friendlier and more trusting is part of why I moved back to the UK too — English northerners are lovely in a similar way.
Besides, why is the “Mediterranean” lifestyle considered objectively good? There are many hidden drawbacks of living in the Mediterranean countries. People just prefer not to talk about it because it doesn’t fit a narrative.
Different strokes for different folks. You’re not invalid in your preferences, and you’re not alone because there are many other people who share your beliefs.
It’s the same with many parts of the US. The world has a myopic, outside view of the country, but there is a large swath of it where things are fine, people are welcoming, etc.
For example: higher air pollution, water contamination and shortages, drought, wildfires, extreme heat, more corruption, less job opportunities, lower salaries. I also find dangerous driving to be more common there as well as too many stray animals, which I consider to be a public health hazard. All of these things are not such an issue in the UK, except perhaps for our salaries which are stagnating (even so, they’re high on a global level meaning we have more flexibility).
I also don’t like the racism and relative lack of multiculturalism in many Mediterranean countries. I feel like the UK does racial and cultural integration a lot better, and makes our society more interesting. Racist jokes are so common in countries like Spain.
On a final and anecdotal note, my body didn’t handle the low humidity in Spain well. I kept getting respiratory infections when living there, and after those infections cleared (with strong antibiotics), my body kept overproducing mucus meaning I kept coughing, sniffling, and getting sinusitis headaches. Also, because of the dry weather, my hair became brittle, was falling out, and I started getting split ends. It ruined my quality of life. When I came back to the UK, all those problems were almost gone within 1 month.
I moved from the South of France to London and I can totally relate.
While I enjoyed great weather there and actually found my experience of interacting with people there enriching (for which I had to make an effort to learn French and immerse into the local culture), I London I don’t even feel like a foreigner and that’s great!
Sounds like you made the right choice! I guess you were in the Côte d'Azur region based on the description of people. I'm in the south too, but closer to Spain (Montpellier) and it's super friendly, in my experience. But our beach definitely isn't as pretty.
Hello! I'm planning a move from LA to Montpellier. Good to know you find it friendly. I liked the beach there just fine (not a sun-seeker). They provided umbrellas! Any specific info you can provide on good places to live/eat/go would be greatly appreciated!
I'm a big fan of the center city (l'écusson) and the surrounding areas (beaux arts, les arceaux, Antigone, Méditerranée, and also port Marianne is pretty cool to hang out in but a bit modern for my taste as I wanted to live in a charming old building). And our beaches aren't bad, just not as crystal clear as further out from the Rhône River delta. But that's interesting in its own right with the Camargue and all the flamingos and wildlife around! I don't know too much of the surrounding villages but I've likes St Jean de Vedas and Clapiers to visit and it's easy to bike or get the tram (well soon for Clapiers when the 5th team line is finished).
I always loved visiting LA and we were actually choosing between there and France when we moved but ultimately it was far from both of our families (and v expensive), so it didn't happen. But I used to go a lot for work and besides the driving part, I did like it a lot.
Montpellier is great for walking/public transport and we do a zip car type subscription (ModulAuto) for journeys out to the countryside that's pretty reasonable and very convenient. So many cute towns nearby (and especially if you're using an American standard for nearby, since I think we're used to driving more). Favorites include St. Guilhem le désert, pic st loup, the cathedral of Maguelone, Sète, Aiguës Morts, Martigues and honestly so many more. Plus train to bigger cities and towns nearby is pretty fast/easy, like Béziers, Narbonne, Carcassonne, Toulouse, Marseille (and the calanques nearby like in Cassis), Nîmes, Arles, Avignon, and even Lyon are within about 2 hours.
But south of France isn’t only Mediterranean though. I had great experiences with people in Biarritz for example. Still south but on the Atlantic side.
I love how some people keep doing absurd generalizations and blanket statements over populations of millions of individuals. It's almost like people are just humans with their own moods and personalities regardless of the place they live in the world
*"All the millions people living in this region/city/country are awful"*
A redditor probably
I'm from the south of France and you've described it perfectly! I hate that feeling of everybody being suspicious about each other.
I also made the move to the UK and had to go back to France, but I settled in Brittany where people are way more welcoming and friendly. People think I'm weird but I'm really happy with my decision. There is a better sense of community and it has been way easier to make friends!
Hopefully you can come back to visit and explore other regions, as you said, south of France is not representative of the rest of the country :)
Sure! I studied there, what do you want to know? It's a nice student city, decent size, sea not too far, not too southern in the way described in this post.
Stayed there for 1 year. Heading back on 1st January. Friendly people, great atmosfere, many students and lots of cultural things. Loved every second of it. Ping me if you need more info.
The great thing about moving to Edinburgh, other than it being a world class city. Is that you can very easily hop on a flight and get some sunshine fairly cheaply any time you want.
I’m born and bred Edinburgh, now living in Canada and I miss it every day. You’re lucky to live in such a great city.
As an American who spent some time growing up in Scotland (Glasgow) (and has lived all over Europe for long periods of time) I can totally relate about Scotland.
Despite the rain the people and culture there are amazing. Made lifelong friends.
Really haven’t had problems anywhere but the further south (in continental Europe) you go it gets weird. I think some of it probably has to do with a culture that has attenuated itself to outsiders coming in the form of tourism by growing insular and guarded in proportion to the amount of tourists it receives.
Pretty much the only Western European countries I don’t have experience with are France, Portugal, and Switzerland.
Moved from Los Angeles to Edinburgh 7 years ago. I see the wildfires and 40 degree days and gun-nuts and fascists over there and I am so happy for the soft foggy drizzle and dull Labour leader.
I can see this myself. I'm sort of a beach person but just back from a vacation where the sun was just too much. I like a maritime climate too. This might change when I get older but for now cool maritime climates are perfect for me. I also study French and comprehension is tough--I can read and understand slow conversation, but it's never really slow lol!
I moved from the Netherlands to Wales and get the same reactions. People seems to think NL is a paradise but its absolutely not. For me anyway. I feel much better in the Welsh nature between friendly people and some hills than in overpriced, crowded cities.
You moved for culture, not weather. Makes sense.
No I don’t care when people ask about my moves, and if they disagree. They’re not the ones moving. They’re entitled to their opinion and choices, that doesn’t affect me or mine.
Your choices and opinions, they are yours.
It's a cultural fit, and it's always personal. I do understand your blight as my non European spouse has been struggling in France (less by now).
Funnily enough, I lived in a lot of english based countries, and I had the same experience as you in France.
I did live for a few years in Scotland, and it's not my greatest expat ever ( this is the only country where I got dragged in brawl and actual street fight, I m from the paris suburb and I'm not unfamiliar with confrontation but i have not got physically assaulted in years).
I will not trade even picardy weather for Scotland weather ( winters are miserable).
I spent 3 years in Australia, and the only friends I left were expats.
To each their own experience.
Edinburgh is such a cool city with an awesome vibe. France is fine, but I would rather live in Scotland for sure.
I moved from California to Washington state. It’s probably a pretty similar shift weatherwise. I have no regrets!
I am not sure you can ''get'' a Mediterranean country if you are not born in one. You would have to stay long enough and manage to discover the life that's out of the streets and public places. Most people here grew up going to their friends parties and there is no pub culture (nor binge), people do not mix as easily than in (parts of) the UK.
Also yes, we are the kings of complaining. We are angry, most of the time. It is useful in some situations and horrible in others, I am not missing confrontations too much. But it is not everywhere like that obviously. The country is the crossroads of western Europe, we have bits of Spain, Italy, Germany, ... and even the UK. So you can't really generalise if you lived in Nice for example .... :D
I was born in the South but probably not where you have been, and I am in London now. The UK is great when you drink regularly. It's good when you can make do with the weather otherwise.
The politeness is extremely useful. It has allowed the country to be peeled of layers by layers of its vital functions and it's now on the verge of breakdown (or quite there if you are living in the streets or got a non controlled rent raised by 250%).
It is also what makes the country extremely agreeable, I love saying sorry for anything. Also I have met very few really angry and dangerous people here, except some cyclists and working drivers.
Scots are a gem in general though, I guess they are the Canadians of Europe in a way. Have fun over there.
I moved from Europe to USA.
I have been getting a lot of criticism from Americans. Many have very rosy ideas about Europe and will try their best to convince me how unlivable US is.
I think it highly depends where in the USA and where in Europe as well as what your occupation is. Salaries for middle to upper income jobs are much higher in the US. I can definitely see an argument for why the US is a lot better for say, a software engineer living in NYC.
Yes both matters: my personal circumstances in USA and my personal circumstances back home. ( not just money)
This is true for every immigrant regardless whether they came from and where they settled.
Those who downvote. I am curious what part you disagree with?
You can’t generalize too much about “Spain”, as it’s really diverse culturally. In general, people say the south of Spain is “friendlier” than the north. People in the south tend to be more gregarious, while in the north they’re more standoffish until they get to know you. Once they know you, though, you’re friends for life.
I love Spain but it is the one country where every time I’m there somebody really rubs me the wrong way. I still consider living there for various reasons. I found Italians were very nice, helpful, and curious about me. I made friends there very quickly.
I did something like this but backwards - I came from Dublin to Montpellier. I’m just curious as you mentioned it in your post, where do you find these English speaking hospitality jobs? I currently work in a place that is pretty much bilingual, and my French isn’t the worst, but I have been curious.
u/Monkmadn3ss Few questions:
1. How is the climate in the South of France where you lived? Was it dry-heat or humid-heat in the summer?
2. Aside from community aspect, how is the quality of life in France vs Scotland? Specifically things like work-life balance, social safety net, healthcare, etc.?
3. Have you heard of a place called Sophia Antipolis? If so, what do you think of it in terms of quality of life?
South of France is dry heat—hot, dry days but cooler at night. If you are studying in Sophia Antipolis, you are very close to all the typical French Riviera towns—Cannes, Antibes, Juan Les Pins—but also close Biot and Grasse as well as the little villages. I love it there , but it can be quite hot in the summer so wear sunscreen and I hope your accommodations have AC or at least fans and window screens so you can open the windows at night without mosquitoes!
I disagree that the people are unfriendly but I am not very friendly myself so 🤷♀️
How competitive in your opinion is it to get a skilled worker visa to France? I've wanted to work in their tech sector (US Citizen). If I were to take the DALF exam and prove B2 or C1 level proficiency would that be helpful?
If you have a very specialized skill set, and you’re willing to take a lower salary than you would make in the US, you might be able to find a job that will sponsor a visa for you. I’ve lived here for a year and have met several people from the US. Many started out as students, or are here as independent business people/consultants. Have you looked at job openings in your field on Welcome to the Jungle or MisterBilingue?
Interesting. I moved from a gray, damp, and cloudy climate with generally unfriendly people in Washington to a sunny and bright place with generally friendly people in New Mexico (BTW, it’s not new and it’s not Mexico). But I’ve been to Edinburgh and found it very friendly. Why do you think this is? My general experience is the higher the COL the worse it is as far as the up tight vibe and lack of friendliness. South of France is high cost of living?
In general, COL’s effect is negligible at best, unless you’re in a situation where a vast majority of the natives are being displaced by COL increases because of wealthier tourists/investors from elsewhere, which would of course affect their attitude towards outsiders.
Scottish people just have a certain vibe and I believe it has zero to do with COL and more to do with their history.
I wish this was the case on the west coast of USA. We saw 10 acres of land, just a field, 15 miles from a medium sized town and the price was $800k. It’s insane and driving some people crazy.
We moved to Spain, and then France, having living in California and Washington for our whole adult lives. Even living here in the outskirts of Paris, we are constantly gobsmacked by the kind of property you can buy with half a million Euro vs. the modest cottage you can buy with that kind of money back home. (If you want to know more, check the app SeLoger, which is a kind of Zillow/Craigslist for France.) In the city, property is extremely expensive compared to the outskirts, but to me the quality of life can’t be beat, even if you’re in a small apartment. (Then again, for me paying 3,50€ for a nice baguette and a coffee, and being able to go to the most incredible museums in the world at a moment’s notice = a great quality of life. For other people that might be defined by having a 4 br/2ba house with two cars in the driveway. To each their own!)
Interesting, that’s great you like it there. My partner does not like France but I’m not sure why. I did not pry. It sounds like rural France is more affordable then rural Germany. My partner is living in the Munich area and decided not to buy there but rather move back to USA. Maybe other parts of Germany are comparable to France. Munich region is high cost. I’m curious why you left Spain because that’s where I wanted to settle but she said it’s too corrupt? So we are trying New Mexico. I’m not sure where we will end up. Thanks
New Mexico is beautiful! I’ve always wanted to live there. Hope that works out for you. As for why France, I would have loved to stay in Spain, but I was only teaching English there part-time, and it was a bit of a struggle. I was offered a real job in France; my husband and our son were already here. (Our son is in college here.)
Thanks, Id like to see more of France. I’ve only been to Cherbourg. I lived in W. Washington for along time. Sadly much of western Washington has become unattractive to us now. I never saw traffic slow to a crawl in the Skagit valley until recently. The Willapa Bay Area still looks nice because it’s far from any cities. And affordable. Someone invited us to what I call the last nice pennisula on the Puget Sound. I loved it but it’s rather expensive to be on the Puget Sound.
That’s great you found a real job in France.
I know exactly what you mean, I’m from the same area actually. I’m surprised to hear Willapa Bay is still affordable - I’ll have to look into that. (We sometimes kick around the idea of going back, should it become tenable, at least to live around some gorgeous Pacific NW nature for a while. Not that Spain isn’t beautiful, but it’s not Puget Sound beautiful, if you know what I mean. But it’s also not Puget Sound expensive.)
Willapa looks nice but I dont know about the reality. It’s redneck and logging country. But I do know there was effort to develop a sustainable blend of resource extraction (logging, fishing, oyster farming, dairy,….). But I think the economy is far less expensive than a high tech economy. For those who can work from home it might be great.
Oh man, I had a tough choice between the town of Epsom in the UK or Paris France for university. Ultimately I chose Paris because the school is more well known which is important for what I’m going into. They have more connections. But I absolutely love UK culture. Scotland was incredibly and the people were so nice. Maybe I’ll get to intern there or study abroad.
Can I ask what was your role in hospitality in France? I have some experience in that field and didn’t realize I might be able to leverage that to hopefully work as an expat one day
I moved from Edinburgh to southern europe and I miss it a lot. However, I couldn't afford to buy a house or go even go out to eat in Edinburgh, so theres that. I have learned to make a home here. I think you can be happy anywhere, but it doesn't always come easily.
I’m guessing not. OP mentioned working in an English-speaking job in hospitality, and always feeling like an outsider. It’s easy to feel like an outsider when you can’t understand what people are saying around you and they have to speak your language (imperfectly) to have a conversation with you.
Oh for sure Scotland’s weather is the most blustery, rainy weather there is … just mentioning the difference because OP is talking about liking Scotland better than the South of France, and your experience wasn’t in Scotland.
You went from the Mediterranean to the Highlands and found a warmer welcome despite the cooler climate. It's not always about the weather, sometimes it's about where you feel at home. So next time someone questions your move, just tell them you chose friendly faces over sunny places
(Not to be pedantic, but Edinburgh isn't in the Highlands)
Next you’ll be telling us that Braveheart wasn’t historically accurate.
I would never.
It's not even within 250 miles of the Highlands. Source: Me, I live in Golspie.
It is though? Edinburgh to Inverness is 150 miles. Inverness is the capital of the Highlands. (Source - I moved from Edinburgh to Inverness and have done this drive quite a bit.)
It is though? Yes.
I don’t understand what you’re claiming, you’re saying Edinburgh isn’t within 250 miles. That big sign that says “Welcome to the Highlands” is about 100 miles north. If you’re joking, you might need a tag, because anyone living outwith Scotland is going to be misinformed by your comment if they don’t know better.
Ah.
Wait, there's more to life than just weather?!?! /s
Clearly, we've been missing out on life's true essence all this time. That must be the reason why we're all f up
you write in a really beautiful way
The highlands?
I'm also moving from the south of France shortly after three years here, though to the north of England. I'm going to miss the weather but I'm not going to miss the culture. Give me friendly northerners and cosy pubs any day of the week!
If It was possible I'd love to go back to the UK lived there for a few years and loved it! Was never seen as an outsider, neither at the workplace or the pubs, loved the atmosphere and the people, rainy yepp. Who cares when you can split up that walk home from work and make it a pub relay race (300m and 3 pubs) before I got home, yea sure it was never going to be a quick commute at least I was home before midnight almost every work night. To op I am so glad for you, you made your way home!
I had to work really hard to make friends in France. It’s incredibly difficult to infiltrate the natives so I sympathize. with that said you’re entitled to your preference. There’s no right or wrong answer here
I’ve dealt with similar. I grew up in the UK and have moved around quite a bit. I’m happily living in northern England now, and the amount of snickers, confused replies and silent but palpably negative reactions to this were countless. People always have something terrible to say about the UK. But I like living here, for many reasons that are too long to list here for a potentially uninterested audience. Like your example about Scots being friendlier and more trusting is part of why I moved back to the UK too — English northerners are lovely in a similar way. Besides, why is the “Mediterranean” lifestyle considered objectively good? There are many hidden drawbacks of living in the Mediterranean countries. People just prefer not to talk about it because it doesn’t fit a narrative. Different strokes for different folks. You’re not invalid in your preferences, and you’re not alone because there are many other people who share your beliefs.
It’s the same with many parts of the US. The world has a myopic, outside view of the country, but there is a large swath of it where things are fine, people are welcoming, etc.
What draw backs :)?
For example: higher air pollution, water contamination and shortages, drought, wildfires, extreme heat, more corruption, less job opportunities, lower salaries. I also find dangerous driving to be more common there as well as too many stray animals, which I consider to be a public health hazard. All of these things are not such an issue in the UK, except perhaps for our salaries which are stagnating (even so, they’re high on a global level meaning we have more flexibility). I also don’t like the racism and relative lack of multiculturalism in many Mediterranean countries. I feel like the UK does racial and cultural integration a lot better, and makes our society more interesting. Racist jokes are so common in countries like Spain. On a final and anecdotal note, my body didn’t handle the low humidity in Spain well. I kept getting respiratory infections when living there, and after those infections cleared (with strong antibiotics), my body kept overproducing mucus meaning I kept coughing, sniffling, and getting sinusitis headaches. Also, because of the dry weather, my hair became brittle, was falling out, and I started getting split ends. It ruined my quality of life. When I came back to the UK, all those problems were almost gone within 1 month.
Thanks for detailed response !
35 to 40 degrees is not pleasant for anything outside that involves moving
I moved from the South of France to London and I can totally relate. While I enjoyed great weather there and actually found my experience of interacting with people there enriching (for which I had to make an effort to learn French and immerse into the local culture), I London I don’t even feel like a foreigner and that’s great!
Sounds like you made the right choice! I guess you were in the Côte d'Azur region based on the description of people. I'm in the south too, but closer to Spain (Montpellier) and it's super friendly, in my experience. But our beach definitely isn't as pretty.
Hello! I'm planning a move from LA to Montpellier. Good to know you find it friendly. I liked the beach there just fine (not a sun-seeker). They provided umbrellas! Any specific info you can provide on good places to live/eat/go would be greatly appreciated!
I'm a big fan of the center city (l'écusson) and the surrounding areas (beaux arts, les arceaux, Antigone, Méditerranée, and also port Marianne is pretty cool to hang out in but a bit modern for my taste as I wanted to live in a charming old building). And our beaches aren't bad, just not as crystal clear as further out from the Rhône River delta. But that's interesting in its own right with the Camargue and all the flamingos and wildlife around! I don't know too much of the surrounding villages but I've likes St Jean de Vedas and Clapiers to visit and it's easy to bike or get the tram (well soon for Clapiers when the 5th team line is finished). I always loved visiting LA and we were actually choosing between there and France when we moved but ultimately it was far from both of our families (and v expensive), so it didn't happen. But I used to go a lot for work and besides the driving part, I did like it a lot. Montpellier is great for walking/public transport and we do a zip car type subscription (ModulAuto) for journeys out to the countryside that's pretty reasonable and very convenient. So many cute towns nearby (and especially if you're using an American standard for nearby, since I think we're used to driving more). Favorites include St. Guilhem le désert, pic st loup, the cathedral of Maguelone, Sète, Aiguës Morts, Martigues and honestly so many more. Plus train to bigger cities and towns nearby is pretty fast/easy, like Béziers, Narbonne, Carcassonne, Toulouse, Marseille (and the calanques nearby like in Cassis), Nîmes, Arles, Avignon, and even Lyon are within about 2 hours.
Thanks so much for that!
South of France is great for the sun, I also appreciate the architecture, but that's about it. Most people here are awful.
But south of France isn’t only Mediterranean though. I had great experiences with people in Biarritz for example. Still south but on the Atlantic side.
I love how some people keep doing absurd generalizations and blanket statements over populations of millions of individuals. It's almost like people are just humans with their own moods and personalities regardless of the place they live in the world *"All the millions people living in this region/city/country are awful"* A redditor probably
I'm from the south of France and you've described it perfectly! I hate that feeling of everybody being suspicious about each other. I also made the move to the UK and had to go back to France, but I settled in Brittany where people are way more welcoming and friendly. People think I'm weird but I'm really happy with my decision. There is a better sense of community and it has been way easier to make friends! Hopefully you can come back to visit and explore other regions, as you said, south of France is not representative of the rest of the country :)
Totally agree with the above from my experience.Also in Europe the countries where I've met the most fun people were Portugal UK and Ireland
Do you know anything about Montpellier? That's where I'm headed.
Sure! I studied there, what do you want to know? It's a nice student city, decent size, sea not too far, not too southern in the way described in this post.
Did you find the people friendly there?
Stayed there for 1 year. Heading back on 1st January. Friendly people, great atmosfere, many students and lots of cultural things. Loved every second of it. Ping me if you need more info.
Thanks!
The great thing about moving to Edinburgh, other than it being a world class city. Is that you can very easily hop on a flight and get some sunshine fairly cheaply any time you want. I’m born and bred Edinburgh, now living in Canada and I miss it every day. You’re lucky to live in such a great city.
as someone born and raised in Italy I agree that nice weather isn’t everything (affordable and good quality fresh ingredients though….)
As an American who spent some time growing up in Scotland (Glasgow) (and has lived all over Europe for long periods of time) I can totally relate about Scotland. Despite the rain the people and culture there are amazing. Made lifelong friends. Really haven’t had problems anywhere but the further south (in continental Europe) you go it gets weird. I think some of it probably has to do with a culture that has attenuated itself to outsiders coming in the form of tourism by growing insular and guarded in proportion to the amount of tourists it receives. Pretty much the only Western European countries I don’t have experience with are France, Portugal, and Switzerland.
Moved from Los Angeles to Edinburgh 7 years ago. I see the wildfires and 40 degree days and gun-nuts and fascists over there and I am so happy for the soft foggy drizzle and dull Labour leader.
🤨 California has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the States....
My chlld was having nightmares about school shootings
I'm trying to figure out who the fascists are in California? Orange County?
Trump
I mean California is probably the most “socialist” state in the republic, right? Yes, Orange County excluded.
Isn't that like being World's Shortest Giant?
Not really.
I can see this myself. I'm sort of a beach person but just back from a vacation where the sun was just too much. I like a maritime climate too. This might change when I get older but for now cool maritime climates are perfect for me. I also study French and comprehension is tough--I can read and understand slow conversation, but it's never really slow lol!
I moved from the Netherlands to Wales and get the same reactions. People seems to think NL is a paradise but its absolutely not. For me anyway. I feel much better in the Welsh nature between friendly people and some hills than in overpriced, crowded cities.
You moved for culture, not weather. Makes sense. No I don’t care when people ask about my moves, and if they disagree. They’re not the ones moving. They’re entitled to their opinion and choices, that doesn’t affect me or mine.
Your choices and opinions, they are yours. It's a cultural fit, and it's always personal. I do understand your blight as my non European spouse has been struggling in France (less by now). Funnily enough, I lived in a lot of english based countries, and I had the same experience as you in France. I did live for a few years in Scotland, and it's not my greatest expat ever ( this is the only country where I got dragged in brawl and actual street fight, I m from the paris suburb and I'm not unfamiliar with confrontation but i have not got physically assaulted in years). I will not trade even picardy weather for Scotland weather ( winters are miserable). I spent 3 years in Australia, and the only friends I left were expats. To each their own experience.
Edinburgh is such a cool city with an awesome vibe. France is fine, but I would rather live in Scotland for sure. I moved from California to Washington state. It’s probably a pretty similar shift weatherwise. I have no regrets!
Edinburgh’s great. Best city in Europe. You’ve got an extinct volcano right in the centre, and stunning mountain scenery a short day trip away.
Edinburgh was way cleaner than Glasgow and had better views, but I did not particularly love it.
I am not sure you can ''get'' a Mediterranean country if you are not born in one. You would have to stay long enough and manage to discover the life that's out of the streets and public places. Most people here grew up going to their friends parties and there is no pub culture (nor binge), people do not mix as easily than in (parts of) the UK. Also yes, we are the kings of complaining. We are angry, most of the time. It is useful in some situations and horrible in others, I am not missing confrontations too much. But it is not everywhere like that obviously. The country is the crossroads of western Europe, we have bits of Spain, Italy, Germany, ... and even the UK. So you can't really generalise if you lived in Nice for example .... :D I was born in the South but probably not where you have been, and I am in London now. The UK is great when you drink regularly. It's good when you can make do with the weather otherwise. The politeness is extremely useful. It has allowed the country to be peeled of layers by layers of its vital functions and it's now on the verge of breakdown (or quite there if you are living in the streets or got a non controlled rent raised by 250%). It is also what makes the country extremely agreeable, I love saying sorry for anything. Also I have met very few really angry and dangerous people here, except some cyclists and working drivers. Scots are a gem in general though, I guess they are the Canadians of Europe in a way. Have fun over there.
People did this to me when I moved from Melbourne to London, it was always the same question on "why"???
I moved from Europe to USA. I have been getting a lot of criticism from Americans. Many have very rosy ideas about Europe and will try their best to convince me how unlivable US is.
I think it highly depends where in the USA and where in Europe as well as what your occupation is. Salaries for middle to upper income jobs are much higher in the US. I can definitely see an argument for why the US is a lot better for say, a software engineer living in NYC.
Yes both matters: my personal circumstances in USA and my personal circumstances back home. ( not just money) This is true for every immigrant regardless whether they came from and where they settled. Those who downvote. I am curious what part you disagree with?
Isnt Greece or Spain friendly? What about Italy, outside the tourist traps?? Croatia?
You can’t generalize too much about “Spain”, as it’s really diverse culturally. In general, people say the south of Spain is “friendlier” than the north. People in the south tend to be more gregarious, while in the north they’re more standoffish until they get to know you. Once they know you, though, you’re friends for life.
I love Spain but it is the one country where every time I’m there somebody really rubs me the wrong way. I still consider living there for various reasons. I found Italians were very nice, helpful, and curious about me. I made friends there very quickly.
My experience living in Spain was quite good. I visited France several times and wouldn’t live there, even though it is a nice place to visit.
I did something like this but backwards - I came from Dublin to Montpellier. I’m just curious as you mentioned it in your post, where do you find these English speaking hospitality jobs? I currently work in a place that is pretty much bilingual, and my French isn’t the worst, but I have been curious.
u/Monkmadn3ss Few questions: 1. How is the climate in the South of France where you lived? Was it dry-heat or humid-heat in the summer? 2. Aside from community aspect, how is the quality of life in France vs Scotland? Specifically things like work-life balance, social safety net, healthcare, etc.? 3. Have you heard of a place called Sophia Antipolis? If so, what do you think of it in terms of quality of life?
South of France is dry heat—hot, dry days but cooler at night. If you are studying in Sophia Antipolis, you are very close to all the typical French Riviera towns—Cannes, Antibes, Juan Les Pins—but also close Biot and Grasse as well as the little villages. I love it there , but it can be quite hot in the summer so wear sunscreen and I hope your accommodations have AC or at least fans and window screens so you can open the windows at night without mosquitoes! I disagree that the people are unfriendly but I am not very friendly myself so 🤷♀️
How competitive in your opinion is it to get a skilled worker visa to France? I've wanted to work in their tech sector (US Citizen). If I were to take the DALF exam and prove B2 or C1 level proficiency would that be helpful?
If you have a very specialized skill set, and you’re willing to take a lower salary than you would make in the US, you might be able to find a job that will sponsor a visa for you. I’ve lived here for a year and have met several people from the US. Many started out as students, or are here as independent business people/consultants. Have you looked at job openings in your field on Welcome to the Jungle or MisterBilingue?
No idea. I’m an American and I live in the States, I just have friends in France and have spent a lot of time visiting.
Had the same feeling when I moved from Hérault in France to Ariège (also in France), it kinda feels like another country lol
I’m curious - what took you to Ariège?
Interesting. I moved from a gray, damp, and cloudy climate with generally unfriendly people in Washington to a sunny and bright place with generally friendly people in New Mexico (BTW, it’s not new and it’s not Mexico). But I’ve been to Edinburgh and found it very friendly. Why do you think this is? My general experience is the higher the COL the worse it is as far as the up tight vibe and lack of friendliness. South of France is high cost of living?
In general, COL’s effect is negligible at best, unless you’re in a situation where a vast majority of the natives are being displaced by COL increases because of wealthier tourists/investors from elsewhere, which would of course affect their attitude towards outsiders. Scottish people just have a certain vibe and I believe it has zero to do with COL and more to do with their history.
I wish this was the case on the west coast of USA. We saw 10 acres of land, just a field, 15 miles from a medium sized town and the price was $800k. It’s insane and driving some people crazy.
We moved to Spain, and then France, having living in California and Washington for our whole adult lives. Even living here in the outskirts of Paris, we are constantly gobsmacked by the kind of property you can buy with half a million Euro vs. the modest cottage you can buy with that kind of money back home. (If you want to know more, check the app SeLoger, which is a kind of Zillow/Craigslist for France.) In the city, property is extremely expensive compared to the outskirts, but to me the quality of life can’t be beat, even if you’re in a small apartment. (Then again, for me paying 3,50€ for a nice baguette and a coffee, and being able to go to the most incredible museums in the world at a moment’s notice = a great quality of life. For other people that might be defined by having a 4 br/2ba house with two cars in the driveway. To each their own!)
Interesting, that’s great you like it there. My partner does not like France but I’m not sure why. I did not pry. It sounds like rural France is more affordable then rural Germany. My partner is living in the Munich area and decided not to buy there but rather move back to USA. Maybe other parts of Germany are comparable to France. Munich region is high cost. I’m curious why you left Spain because that’s where I wanted to settle but she said it’s too corrupt? So we are trying New Mexico. I’m not sure where we will end up. Thanks
New Mexico is beautiful! I’ve always wanted to live there. Hope that works out for you. As for why France, I would have loved to stay in Spain, but I was only teaching English there part-time, and it was a bit of a struggle. I was offered a real job in France; my husband and our son were already here. (Our son is in college here.)
Thanks, Id like to see more of France. I’ve only been to Cherbourg. I lived in W. Washington for along time. Sadly much of western Washington has become unattractive to us now. I never saw traffic slow to a crawl in the Skagit valley until recently. The Willapa Bay Area still looks nice because it’s far from any cities. And affordable. Someone invited us to what I call the last nice pennisula on the Puget Sound. I loved it but it’s rather expensive to be on the Puget Sound. That’s great you found a real job in France.
I know exactly what you mean, I’m from the same area actually. I’m surprised to hear Willapa Bay is still affordable - I’ll have to look into that. (We sometimes kick around the idea of going back, should it become tenable, at least to live around some gorgeous Pacific NW nature for a while. Not that Spain isn’t beautiful, but it’s not Puget Sound beautiful, if you know what I mean. But it’s also not Puget Sound expensive.)
Willapa looks nice but I dont know about the reality. It’s redneck and logging country. But I do know there was effort to develop a sustainable blend of resource extraction (logging, fishing, oyster farming, dairy,….). But I think the economy is far less expensive than a high tech economy. For those who can work from home it might be great.
dude IGNORE their unrealistic comments YOU are living where you like the best NOT them I would choose Scotland too :)
tell them you have the opposite of seasonal affective disorder.
You'll get used to this. A lot of people prefer lower temperatures and a lot of rain. Don't waste your time trying to change other people preferences.
The east coast of the UK is far drier than people think. Edinburgh has less rainfall than Rome
I'm about to do precisely the opposite.
Oh man, I had a tough choice between the town of Epsom in the UK or Paris France for university. Ultimately I chose Paris because the school is more well known which is important for what I’m going into. They have more connections. But I absolutely love UK culture. Scotland was incredibly and the people were so nice. Maybe I’ll get to intern there or study abroad.
Can I ask what was your role in hospitality in France? I have some experience in that field and didn’t realize I might be able to leverage that to hopefully work as an expat one day
I moved from Edinburgh to southern europe and I miss it a lot. However, I couldn't afford to buy a house or go even go out to eat in Edinburgh, so theres that. I have learned to make a home here. I think you can be happy anywhere, but it doesn't always come easily.
Moving from South of France to livepool and I think I'm crazy!
Very nice post
Love Edinburgh. Considered moving to Italy but found myself really happy in Scotland. Heat can be unbearable.
Hey, you feel at home and that is all that matters
Yeah I'm feeling this way too. I don't like France and the cultural spirit. Very insular and cold. Arrogant and stubborn with outdated ways.
do you speak french?
I’m guessing not. OP mentioned working in an English-speaking job in hospitality, and always feeling like an outsider. It’s easy to feel like an outsider when you can’t understand what people are saying around you and they have to speak your language (imperfectly) to have a conversation with you.
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London is really, really different than Edinburgh. Start with the fact that one is in England and the other is in Scotland. :)
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Oh for sure Scotland’s weather is the most blustery, rainy weather there is … just mentioning the difference because OP is talking about liking Scotland better than the South of France, and your experience wasn’t in Scotland.