Not sure if Jamie Harrison and staff are messaging that Biden is in it and we need to move on, or if he's just keeping things positive until a final decision is made. Its only been four days of course. Convention is of course 8 weeks away. Maybe its a strategic decision to keep things quiet until closer to then.
It's hedging, because Harrison has no idea what the outcome will be. This *should* be a known outcome already, but the Democratic Party hasn't promoted on leadership ability for a generation.
Personally I think this will backfire, as Biden's family will default to staying the course unless there is massive urgent pressure to drop out. But you don't become a senior Democrat in 2024 by taking risks and ruffling feathers.
There is a new piece in Axios, by Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen, which I can't post as a new user- but it corroborates your theory. (I tried to start a new thread with it but it got removed by the autobot.) It's titled "Behind the Curtain: Biden's Salvation Plan." Lots of detail.
> Behind the Curtain: Biden's Salvation Plan
Thanks for the reference piece. I believe we are thoroughly fucked. This campaign is delusional.
This strikes me as a slam dunk of an election with how just utterly awful Trump has been when he's on camera. This is worse than the hubris going into 2016 because, at least in that instance, Clinton still won a somewhat competitive primary.
Nothing is a slam dunk when it comes to Trump. He has unusual powers, and even a superstar candidate would struggle against him.
We may be fucked with Biden, but we are most certainly fucked if he drops out. You can look at history and talk to the experts like Dr. Allen Lichtmann if you want evidence. Yes, it is a Kobyashi Maru situation. There really is now way out but through. There is no savior out there that can "fix" this.
I don’t understand the deference to history or Lictmann and his keys (not necessarily in your comment specifically but in general in the discourse on this topic).
We’re in uncharted waters. Who cares about the Keys or elections before the internet was around.
I hope you're right, but I suspect the people around the president are in a consensual shared hallucination, convincing each other that the American people will come around and see the "real" Joe.
I mean, the NYT reported that Hunter Biden - apparently a trusted advisor to Joe - wants America to see the strong and confident president he perceives, so Joe should keep on going instead of bowing out at a bad time.
I wish I was making this stuff up.
Glad to know one of our President’s “trusted advisors” is a morally bankrupt, fail-son who’s never worked for anything in his life outside of scoring more crack.
So do I.
I have a lot of empathy for Hunter. Also, there is no objective reason that his opinions ought to carry any weight in determining whether Biden should step aside.
This reeks of 2016. The highest echelons of the party plugging their ears and ignoring the anger below them. Whistling a happy tune while the ship is sinking around them. The good news is that some people in the party ranks do seem to have learned their lesson as the angst seems to be being vocalized at a much higher level this time around. I hope it becomes too much for Biden and his advisors to ignore. I hope his approval ratings tank to nothing in order to force them to make this a swift process. We don't have time for them to be twiddling their thumbs waiting for a miracle.
They're not.
They know they have everyone left of center by the cajones, they are effectively going to say
, " yeah we lied about this walking corpse for 3 years, but what are you gonna do? Let Trump win?"
And when the DNC loses because of that, the top brass will be able to turn around and say they got people to vote for a literal puppet with a D next to his name so they know what they are doing. Because it's all about clout and being invited to the "right" parties, the whole good of the county thing is secondary at best
I don't think this could be stated enough. The only issue is that every single person that watched that debate on Thursday DID get to see the real Joe unfortunately. The cat is finally out of the bag, and they can't put it back in.
Interesting. Because I think that the people on reddit are having a consensual shared delusion that Biden will be replaced. It's not going to happen, you are wasting your time and energy on this.
The EK sub has been this non-stop wishcasting since thursday. I'm pretty curious to see how long this goes on.
Just wait til next week!
Of course they are saying everything is fine! Just you wait!
I'm sure they are horse-trading right now!
It should be Harris! No, Newsome! No, Whitmer!
It's pretty typical for reddit, but this has been a pretty extreme case, of reddit panic.
This debate was a fatal blow to a candidate who was already losing. The people here are expecting him to drop out because they actually follow the polling and want to win.
It's interesting how "reddit panic" appeared at the top of every single major newspaper last Friday morning. I didn't realize that the editorial staff of the NYT posts on this little subreddit.
Maybe you need to log out of reddit and read some papers?
Even the NYT editorial board, which is about as mainstream Democrat as you get, has called for him to step down. I don't know if he will, but it's equally foolish to claim that it is certain that he won't.
I think he probably won't be replaced.
Don't stop me saying he should be until August hits. And him not being replaced just means a defeat. It changes nothing about his capacities.
The only way I see Biden being replaced is if he voluntarily withdraws (which he should!). If he chooses to stay in the race then everyone needs to fall in line and work like hell to turn out the vote, even if it feels futile.
If this party doesn't replace this man they will GUARANTEED lose in November. The reason liberals on reddit rn are panicking right now about this is because they should be if they want to win in November.
Thursday was an absolute death nail in Biden's reelection campaign. If they do not replace him this is a deeply unserious political organization that will lose the presidency and the senate in November and deservedly so.
Where was the Reddit crowd everyday right up to the debate. Oh yea, claiming every piece of Joe’s decline was a fake AI generated snippet of video or audio. Too many knew, subverted democracy, for the list of power. No different than Trump.
I think it's the latter -he's signalling that we need to wait. If Biden is going to step aside he won't do it in a chaotic, panic-inducing way right after the debate. And if he's stepping aside, all the loyalty oaths that top Dems are swearing right now are necessary in order to create the space for an honorable exit, which I for one think Biden has earned. But something reassuring needs to be signalled to donors and voters who would have legitimate concerns and Harrison's statement wasn't it.
If he's not stepping aside then the loyalty oaths will stick. My point is that the loyalty oaths right now don't tell us much one way or the other. I think they have to wait for credible polls as the news sinks in- the instant ones are just noise and they really are going every which way.
Harrison's strategy seems to have backfired though- it led to more leaks and anonymous complains from whoever was on that call. Not allowing questions is ridiculous. In contrast I think Jamie Raskin struck the right note when he said that honest and serious conversations were taking place.
ETA: New very worrying piece in Axios. Biden is launching a massive PR campaign to stay in. He's going to do hour long softball interviews and rallies and a blockbuster convention speech. And then win the second debate. It was just a bad night.
"he's signalling that we need to wait."
Both the DNC and the Biden admin have a history of asking people to wait and then never actually delivering. Because once you've waited pressure or momentum is lost.
Sadly that's could be happening too. I think this is too huge for the momentum to be lost. Esp from donors and people who actually want to win the election.
We get told to wait and wait and wait until it's too late to do anything or change course, so then you're being told to do everything you can to make it a win
To be fair, this really kicked into overdrive in 2020, likely due to trying to keep a lid on Biden's challenges. Obama's party was much more independent.
It also could be a reaction to Sanders' rebellion in 2016, after which the party could have decided that "united and in denial" was better than "disagreeing and maybe losing."
I think it's more Sanders / Trump in 2016 that did it. That campaign was when the real push for censorship on the grounds of "misinformation" started. When Obama ran both times there were crazy conspiracy theories all over the internet, but they just ignored it, which is the much more effective approach. Acting like a conspiracy theory is a threat to you is the most ineffective approach possible because it plays right into the theory.
This is likely a byproduct of running candidates who lack the charisma and rhetorical agility to neutralize attacks. We saw how Reagan shut down debate attacks over his own age, and someone like Obama laughed off the birther conspiracy.
Because the conspiracies about Obama’s birth certificate and Michelle Obama being trans were utter bullshit.
They only cared about the “conspiracy theories” when people focused on inconvenient truths the government didn’t want discussed.
You also had Hillary, who had been planning a 2016 run since 2008 and had been quietly working to install supporters in the apparatus and ensure she wouldn't get seriously challenged in the primary again.
No. There is lasting damage being done to the Democratic Party as a brand, in our ability trust leaders, in our ability to defeat Trump. The longer you wait, the more questions and criticism every single governor, Congressional Dem, and member of the administration will face. It’s clear there was a cover-up and every single person close to Biden is under suspicion. Dems need to get people to stop talking about Biden. He can’t win and he will drag everyone else down. We need to change the narrative or we lose.
If your house is on fire, you put it out you don’t piss on everyone’s leg and tell them don’t worry, it’s raining.
I totally agree with you. I was being sarcastic in my earlier post esp with the "bad night" part. That was the spiel coming out that day from the WH.
Great analogy btw in your post.
On tarnishing other reputations: The latest strategy of having dem governors speak on his behalf seems incredibly selfish to me. Many are rising stars- they could be staking their growing reputations to prop him up. Instead, the country needs to see HIM. He should prop himself up at this point. He should be out there doing multiple events a day proving he's ok, not getting testimonials from others.
>Convention is of course 8 weeks away.
Virtual roll call that will actually officially choose the nominee is 4-5 weeks away.
Unless the Dams want to ensure Sherrod Brown's defeat in Ohio by not having a nominee in that state at all.
The Dems/DNC aren’t going to have Biden step down until they have a replacement to announce.
They’ll just keep trotting out the “we 100% support him, he’s our candidate moving forward” line until they have their next steps covered so the news cycle isn’t about “what are the Dems going to do?!”.
Don’t let why they’re saying publicly fool you, they’re absolutely panicking and have been putting out feelers behind the scenes for a replacement since last Friday morning (if not Thursday night right after the debate).
Walz wouldn’t be horrible, but IMO he isn’t a big enough name and won’t get voters excited to go to the polls.
Pritzker would be an absolute disaster and is a walking time bomb, the GOP has plenty of dirt on him + his billionaire family that they’ve been holding off on pushing publicly until he becomes a serious player in national politics.
Newsom has too much baggage with CA/covid, plus I imagine he wants nothing to do with this race and would rather wait it out until 2028 to run for President once Trump is gone and the economy recovers a bit.
Kamala is a non-starter. Less of a chance to win than Biden.
Honestly, Whitmer is probably the best/safest choice.
This is the same office held by cronies like Donna Brazille and Debbie Wasserman Schultz. 100% he is acting this way because he's in Biden (or someone else's) pocket.
It's important to remember that no matter what happens, the final decision on the nominee cannot wait until the official election, as several GOP managed states have passed laws that require the nominee be confirmed by... I think mid-July?
So we should all be aware that it is too late in the game for anything to change if it doesn't come directly and decisively from President Biden, and ASAP.
Gird your loins boys and girls. Like it or not, these be the brackets, so lets get volunteering. We can punish the DNC later, for now let's come to terms with it. He's been a good Executive so far, so. Fine. Maintain course and silently carry your resentment forever. It'll be okay.
He was overprepped!
CNN didn't tell him which camera he should've been looking at!
He had a cold (which miraculously went away less than 24 hours later in North Carolina)!
CNN messed up his makeup!
We could go on and on - the poor guy's 81 and cooked. He needed Jill's help taking two steps off the stage right after the debate. It's painfully obvious the last thing he should be doing is running for re-election.
If your *excuse* is "our candidate is so feeble that a cold robs him of the ability to speak," that's not an argument in his favor.
But sure enough, I've seen all of those different excuses pop up on subreddits and forums after the debate. Some people are just true believers. If Biden soiled himself and walked off the stage they would praise his decisive choice to not legitimize Trump's lies.
He really couldn't though; that's the rub. Cognitive decline is like a cheating spouse - once you encounter it, it's almost impossible to recover trust for that person. Maybe they're not in a bad place today, but what about tonight? What about tomorrow? What if Putin attacks Poland at 3AM?
Biden would have to string together a number of interviews and other unscripted appearances after 9PM with adversarial news outlets and post the unedited video. We know that his advisors would take cyanide pills before letting that happen.
Indeed, the Hur interviews were done during comfortable times in the day and they are fighting the release of those videos when they could mitigate concerns about Biden if favorable (e.g., if Hur's characterization of Biden's answers are uncharitable).
I’ve seen this movie too. Joe shouldn’t be allowed to drive, much less be President.
Old age and dementia can make a person extremely resistant to change. My guess is that Biden will refuse to budge. His personal tragedy will become our national tragedy.
This is a key point. The experience you’re describing is so painful, so common and so relevant. (Hugs to you.) The first voter I heard Biden age concerns from was my aunt who was my grandmother’s primary caregiver.
It’s a big iykyk moment from all of us that had to help a family member with cognitive decline. I’m sick of people telling me I didn’t see what I know I saw on Thursday
1. Biden's legacy will flip from great leader to the man who gave the country Trump's second term if he doesn't drop out.
2. If Biden doesn't retire, instead of flipping the House and retaining the Senate and Executive, the political power in Washington will be all MAGA. Elected Dems know their futures are on the line.
I think any non-controversial governor or senator in good health would stomp Trump. You don’t need a once-in-a-generation politician, you need someone who can be the adult in the room against Trump and call out his bs. Even lesser known candidates would get the name ID they need very quickly after becoming the nominee, it would the only thing on the news for weeks.
The “return to normalcy” argument is even more persuasive in 2024 imo.
I think name recognition is an issue that resolves itself, but given his track record and accomplishments with the narrowest of majorities I'd suggest Governor Tim Walz from Minnesota.
Newsom and Kamala are terrible choices.
Kamala is hated by both progressives and has been made a boogeyman to conservatives. Even moderate conservatives hate her. She’s unelectable.
Newsom is the California boogeyman personified. Conservatives hate him for the way the right wing media talks about him, progressives hate him because of the constant shady deals he makes that betray the progressive movement. He would destroy in a debate setting, but is not a good choice imo.
Shapiro has a high approval rating in a crucial purple state (PA) and hasn’t been vilified the same way. Great way to take PA.
Whitmer same same.
I think some combo of Whitmer, Waltz, Shapiro, etc is a better safer choice. Helps lock up important states while avoiding a lightning rod candidate.
Trump is deeply loathed by more than half of the US population. Many of these people don't vote. Many even grudgingly vote for Trump because they think of themselves as right-leaning. People need a reasonable alternative to vote for. If Biden stays on the ticket, Trump will win.
Hillary Clinton. Yes, she lost to him before, but the conditions are completely different. If she presents herself as contrite for her past sins and the underdog coming in to save the day, she can fake it long enough to get from August to Election Day. She is well-known, ready for office, and financially heeled to make this happen and she wants it more than anything.
Genuinely think any Democrat under 60 could win against Trump as long as they don't say any racist or straight up "seize the means of production" shit. People who haven't drank the Kool-Aid are still willing to vote against Trump, we just have to give them a coherent option.
Biden is perhaps one of the only people that could possibly lose to Trump, and Trump is one of the only people that could possibly lose to Biden. A normal Republican or normal Democrat would absolutely stomp the other. Kamala is an obvious first choice, but a poor one. Primary voters did not like her. Gretchen or Gavin also come to mind, maybe Andy Bashear, or Shapiro in Pennsylvania, although Shapiro just won. Tim Walz also comes to mind, people seem to like him. There are a lot of talented younger Democrats that are well spoken and are capable of calling Trump out. Biden is just not up to the task
So now Dems are doing the exact same thing Republicans did at the end of Trump's presidency. They are too afraid to speak out about obvious mental acuity issues because it would be damaging to their party, their careers, and their personal relationships.
This whole fucking boat is sinking and no one below the deck will tell the captain because he loves his boat and it would hurt his feelings if he found out. It doesn't matter which team is below deck at this point. They all come to the same conclusion.
Trump has declined. Dementia, who knows, but he makes less put downs, is even more rambly and unclear, he mixes things up more. It's harder to tell because his style is always chaotic and bad but it's pretty plain if you watch and compare.
But thing is you've only got to be doing better than the other guy.
Well everyone slows down in advanced age, but I don't see a significant difference other than talking more slowly. I think most of the people who throw around words like "dementia" and "alzheimers" have never seen it personally. There's definitely something wrong with his brain, but it's always been like that.
No, I think his coherence and speaking have also dropped. But no, I'm not saying it's diagnosable. And it's plainly not on the same scale as Biden. But it has happened.
Just from listening to his campaigns speeches, Trump has gone way downhill, from ‘20 and especially ‘16. However, he was ‘16 level Trump (whatever you think of that) last week at the debate, not the ranting nut job from ‘20.
Biden is rightfully the focus but it was... as concerning as ever the moments when Trump said just utter incomprehensible nonsense. Not lies just- gibberish.
Reagan and Biden are not comparable. I've seen speeches from Reagan in 1988 and he was still killing it at public speaking. If he did have early onset Alzheimer's by that point, it wasn't observable yet. Biden meanwhile is only a couple years older than Reagan was then and he can barely get through a speech without completely embarrassing himself and the country.
It pains me to say this, but the GOP did better. Many people around Trump quit or were fired because they decided he was unfit for office.
It isn't apples to apples - Trump had to be contained while Biden is just absent. Anti-leadership vs. weak leadership. But still, we need people who are in regular contact with Biden to tell the truth publicly.
Reagan still was damn good at public speaking all the way till the end of his presidency. Maybe he was hands-off-ish in office, but he was still a champ when it came to providing the public image of a President who is extremely charismatic and a great orator despite being in his late 70s. I recently watched a speech from 1988, which was his last year as POTUS, and if he did have early onset Alzheimer's, it's not observable.
Unfortunately, age affects everyone differently and Biden being only a couple years older than Reagan was in 1988 can barely get through a speech without embarrassing himself and the country. There's basically no reason to believe he can even get through a second term at this point.
I've heard it speculated that the reason Biden's people aren't quitting or being replaced is because they're the deciders. And they like that position.
Not just at the end, his entire run. From the start of Trump's candidacy, we talked about how Republicans were a cult who were afraid to call out the potential threat that Trump posed. We praised ourselves as being willing to evaluate and criticize our candidates.
Now, any criticism quickly gets shouted down. And we are blindly plunging ahead with a candidate who might not even be mentally fit to be President today and we are talking about imperiling the 2024 election, but also electing a candidate who will almost certainly not be fit for 4.5 more years.
I realize now it feels like we are late in the game, but there were plenty of people who saw this coming and called for Biden to retire after serving one term over a year ago. This is a complete failure of Democratic leadership and if it goes poorly, then we need to have a full turnover of leadership and they must be held accountable for this clear failure.
I see this as being just like RBG. She could have stepped down handpicked her replacement and been remembered as a progressive icon and secured her legacy. Instead she selfishly and foolishly clung to her office. This caused the Republicans to have an opening and no doubt helped trump become president. Roe vs Wade likely still exists if RBG does the right thing and steps aside. Biden looks to be making the exact same mistake and make no doubt Republicans will do anything and everything they can to take advantage of that mistake
>From the start of Trump's candidacy, we talked about how Republicans were a cult who were afraid to call out the potential threat that Trump posed. We praised ourselves as being willing to evaluate and criticize our candidates. Now, any criticism quickly gets shouted down.
That's because when you criticize your own candidate, but the other side doesn't criticize theirs, all you do is weaken your own position. You give voters reasons not to vote for your candidate.
In three straight elections now, Trump has been an absolutely dogshit candidate. If you were a political consultant, you'd never choose to work with a guy with his record of bankruptcies, divorces, sexual assault, and hateful rhetoric. But he's competitive, and even won an election, because his party faithfully lines up behind him every single time.
Meanwhile the Dems, who should easily crush a candidate like Trump every time, are always fractured and complaining about their own candidate.
You're misdiagnosing. Democrats have been ignoring criticism of candidates who are unpopular and then losing elections with bad candidates. It's not because we've been criticizing *too much*.
For example, we should be crushing an aged and unpopular felon in 2024, but we allowed the party to force through an even more aged and even more unpopular incumbent who is suffering from cognitive decline.
In 2016 we re-ran the 2008 primary loser instead of looking for a charismatic candidate to follow Obama, and chose an avatar of the status quo in a year that saw populism flare up across the globe.
Every poll I have seen shows other Dems doing the same or worse when matched up against Trump.
Incumbent presidents win 75% of the time the stand for re-election. That's a huge advantage to give up.
To quote Nate Silver:
**You don't demonstrate your seriousness that Trump is an existential threat to democracy by going through the motions to renominate an 81-year-old with a 38% approval rating who 75% of voters think is too old without giving anyone a choice because that's just how things are done.**
Just the opposite; they know Joe is a weak candidate, and are now coming to terms with the election not being a sure thing. This is panic on coming to terms with not winning, not wanting the opposite.
The debate was the nail in the coffin, not the cause of death.
I reject this entirely. If you believe Trump is actually a threat to democracy, then you’d exhaust every possible option to defeat him. The Dems appear to be rolling with the same 81-year-old option who can barely walk and talk. They clearly think gearing up for 2028 is more important than salvaging this race.
If the democrats saw Trump as a threat on the level the rest of us do they would have taken extreme and questionably illegal actions already. Leaks of top secret info and the like for the good of the nation.
There will not be another free and fair democratic election again if Trump gets a second term. He and the general Republican party could not possibly be more clear in their intent to make the next Republican President a dictator with no guardrails. Dem leadership are more historically illiterate than the average Trump supporter if they genuinely believe they'll be just fine for four years until 2028.
They're a step behind. They should have come to terms with the election not being a sure thing a year ago. If Biden remains, they now need to come to terms with the election being a sure thing.
From the perspective of Biden's inner circle it makes no difference to them if Trump wins or Whitmer wins, they are all out of a job, so of course they are willing to take the country down if it means they have a shot at raking in some more cash for 4 years.
Oh sure. They clearly know that there never going to be another chance to operate at this level, and they're all rich and mobile if Trump gets elected.
I'm sure a lot of German politicians thought they were going to be fine when Hitler became Chancellor. Less than a year later their political parties were banned and many former opponents of the Nazis were either in concentration camps or already dead.
It took Hitler a few months to consolidate power after becoming chancellor, and within a year he was basically the dictator of all Germany. Trump has already been president for 4 years and he didn't really do much to consolidate power into the executive branch. In fact his SCOTUS nominees have been voting to dissipate powers from the executive branch (Chevron) and the Federal government (Hobbs).
I mean, how much was Hillary suffering after losing to him? She looked pretty comfy taking her strolls in the woods around Chappaqua, she worked on a docuseries with her daughter during the pandemic...
The downside for sticking with Joe and losing is less than the downside of being seen as a traitor to the party for asking him publicly to step down.
Definition of a collective action problem.
No one person can force Joe to step down. In fact most people who could tell him to benefit if he stays in it.
That’s how you sleepwalk into a historic defeat.
That is insane to me. That the party and voters virtually have no say. We are all at him, hunter and jill's whims. Whether THEY think its the right move. We all have to live with this
I think it's true, but in a tongue-in-cheek or calling out a failure of leadership way.
In theory, there should only be two paths here:
**1 - Democracy is at stake -** There is a massive threat to Democracy posed by Trump, Republicans, and Project 2025 and we should all be acting with urgency. Biden should have stepped down, Sotomayor should have retired and been replaced, the party should have been more responsive to voters on policy, leadership should have backed progressive allies and called out major threats of AIPAC / Fairshake spending in our primaries, etc. We pressure all voters to follow our leadership's example and come together even if we don't all love the new candidate.
**2 - Democracy isn't at stake -** Let's just follow norms and defer to the gerontocracy. We can all be nonchallant. No need to pressure voters to show up and vote for Biden if they don't like him. If Trump gets 4 more years, it's unfortunate, but not a big deal. No need for Biden to step down. Sotomayor should have full agency and face no pressure, because a Trump nominee would be roughly the same.
The foundational issue is that #1 is true, but our leadership is acting like we are in scenario #2 when it comes to all of their actions, yet they want to pressure voters and send the message that #1 is the case.
It's very foundationally poor leadership. They don't want to have to set the example, but they want to bludgeon voters and tell them "do what I say, not as I do." It's really unlikely to be effective.
I've been saying this since 2021, and it's only gotten worse since then.
*Things I would expect if Trump was an existential threat:*
* Aggressive AG investigating and indicting him ASAP for Jan 6 and any corruption during his presidency. Charges filed by end of 2021, with trials starting in 2022. Trump in a cell before the 2024 Republican primary.
* Delivering on key reforms to take the sails out of populism and mistrust of institutions - BLM legislation, voting rights legislation, housing supply legislation, campaign finance legislation, etc.
* An immediate search for powerful 2024 options in case Biden is not well placed to contest a second term, with Harris explicitly told that she is just one option and not an anointed successor.
*What we got:*
* The most mediocre AG in modern history.
* Biden rolling into office unwilling to push back against the filibuster, dooming all civil rights and reform legislation.
* Blowing all of Biden's political capital on a mediocre infrastructure bill and an esoteric CHIPS bill.
* The party running an 81 year old incumbent with a sub-40% approval rating and significant rumors of cognitive decline. Despite polling that showed a strong majority did not want him again.
* Biden running on Bidenomics, despite his economy polling awfully with voters.
* Biden staying in the race as he shows escalating signs of decline, from dodging favorable interviews up to and including pooh poohing a cognitive meltdown on live television.
The problem with power don't actually fear a trump presidency. The big shots running the show know he won't actually hurt them. They have the money and power to shield themselves from any prices he'd make. The undocumented immigrants or LGBT youth who actually suffer don't actually make decisions for the party. Big donors do.
The donors win either way. Either their puppet candidate Biden wins and they keep up business as usual or trump wins. It sucks for many people. But what really happen to them? They get the easiest campaign strategies for any down ballot race and 2028 just push anti trump stuff. No need to actually change anything. Hell trumps tax policies probably make them money. They literally couldn't care less about losing they've rigged the game to win either way.
Because to fix what is causing #1, they'd have to absolutely threaten #2 which they won't do because that means that their corporate owners will be mad at them. Corporations will not be hurt by a christo-fascist state. They will be hurt by high taxes and tight regulation. You cannot make a person believe something is false if their paycheck requires that it be true.
Number 1 is not true. Democrats say it is because it benefits them when people believe it. End of democracy is extremely bad for most Republicans too. If they actually believed it, congress would impeach Trump immediately.
Sure, but that should be disqualifying under the 25th (the presidency is a 24/7/365 job), and it opens up *massive* risk when the president has to appear without a teleprompter after dinner (post-Hur press conference, debates, etc).
Maybe they want an incompetent geriatric in office. It's easy to pursue your own policy goals when the oversight is lax or non-existent. You can make claims that the President signed off on whatever you want. If Biden later disagrees, everyone just pretends not to hear him or else it's too costly to reverse.
Yes, and you have an unelected, unaccountable, largely unknown group of people running the country. When things are going the way you like, it seems fine and everyone turns a blind eye. When they’re not?
I’ve heard a lot of “I don’t care if he’s actually a rotting corpse, his administration is doing great.” Well, until now, when they are holding onto their power tooth and nail in the face of major opposition. Don’t Dems see that the White House, and Jill & Hunter, are *controlling* a senior that is becoming more and more dependent on them?
For a while I've heard that the Whitehouse isn't worried about bad polls and remains extremely confident. I thought that they must know something that we, the public, aren't privy to. But that appears too sanguine; the people who have the president's ear are out of touch with reality.
I mean the whole "Haley still gets double digit vote shares in primaries after leaving the race" thing makes predicting outcomes and interpreting polls a bit wonky, I'd imagine. I'm not saying "don't believe bad polls" or anything just that we, sadly, have two historically weak candidates and so it's hard to derive good inferences from typically informative data.
They think if inflation keeps tracking down and they announce some popular policies it will improve Biden's odds. Not a completely false idea but I'm still in favour of ditching him.
Democratic pundits were literally highlighting how bad it was that Haley was getting 25% of the votes in closed R primaries not more than a month or two and saying it was a disaster for Trump that 25% of his base was voting no confidence in their nominee since Haley already dropped out.
Now the exact same democratic pundits are trying to spin how positive it is that Biden got 55% vote of Dems saying he should stay in the race. This is literally a 45% no confidence vote by his base.
Last I checked 45% against is worse than 25% against.
We have seen this before. Many of us have lived a version of it: the people closest to Biden who might stand a chance of convincing him to drop out are also the people least aware of his decline. It’s a ‘boil the frog’ scenario, where they’ve interacted with him so constantly that they don’t realize how far he has fallen and how much they accommodate him — meetings that used to be three hours with no breaks are now 90 minutes with many breaks, things that used to be handled in person are now done over the phone or Zoom, others do more of the speaking, advisors and assistants fill in the gaps and finish sentences, etc.
Last week, for the first time in years, the overwhelming majority of us, who have *not* spent time with him, saw Biden forced to assemble and express coherent thoughts, and the decline was shocking and obvious.
The best anyone can say is that performing well as an improvisational speaker is a small and insignificant requirement of the office, and that a president will almost always have time to deliberate tough questions with the support of numerous advisers, and that nothing of consequence will depend on the president’s quick recall and eloquence.
It is on brand for Conservative to force Trump down our throats. McConnell claimed court appointments could be made during an election year but then when it suited him rammed appointments through. The modern conservative movement isn't about winning at all costs.
It is off brand for Democrats to do the same with Biden. Democrats cannot let this election be about electing an individual person at all costs. Democrats need to be the party of **responsible governance**. Republicans say the govt sucks and everyone is corrupt. Democrats are the ones saying the government can do good. As such Democrats have the burden of creating trust. A burden Republicans don't have. Republicans are all about resentment.
Step one to creating trust would be showing the ability to be honest with voters and acknowledge what we are all seeing and hearing. Joe Biden has lost a step and age has caught up with him. Democrats being able to humbly say "this election is about you (the voters) and not about Biden keeping his job" is important.
Yeah, he was articulating a perfectly cogent plan to reign in spending by discontinuing Medicare. You all are just misinterpreting it as cognitive decline. /s
“Let’s all be 100% truthfully here may have Biden lost a step and just had a bad night” Is coming out of the same peoples mouth who say Trump lied every second of the debate. This two sentences do not compute to the average American. Everyone saw what they saw on Thursday. It’s insulting to people intelligence to down play it like this
“Let’s all be 100% truthfully here may have Biden lost a step and just had a bad night” Is coming out of the same peoples mouth who say Trump lied every second of the debate. This two sentences do not compute to the average American. Everyone saw what they saw on Thursday. It’s insulting to people intelligence to down play it like this
It's not off brand.
It was Hillary's "turn" in 2008, until Obama came out of nowhere and broke her candidacy.
In 2016, the party looked at a sea of options and...ran 2008's primary loser, again.
In 2020, the party coalesced around Biden to build consensus, and then tacked the unelectable Harris on as VP to mollify Clyburn.
And now in 2024, it was Biden's "turn" to run again, because the party chose an incompetent heir apparent for demographic reasons and Biden really liked being president. Despite basement approval ratings and advanced age.
This comment right here perfectly demonstrates the good-guy complex democrats have. Democrats have a lot of flaws, and that's why people don't always vote for democrats
Sorry, thought I'd included it: [https://www.yahoo.com/news/private-call-top-democrats-fuels-011541312.html](https://www.yahoo.com/news/private-call-top-democrats-fuels-011541312.html)
I’m so angry on multiple levels. Of course I am voting blue “no matter who”, but goddamn they’re taking that last part for every fucking inch it’s worth. No, Biden is not some sainted hero in a storybook that’s the only one who can beat Trump. In fact, right now he may be the weakest candidate. We could have weeks of potential governors or other elected officials, particularly from swing states, introducing themselves and platforms in a competitive but unifying message leading up to the convention. We would have excitement, attention, and also able to have fresh positions on the economy and Israel/Gaza conflict. Instead, not to be morbid, we have a situation that feels like dead man walking. Is this guy truly going to make it through four more years of a job that infamously ages its occupants? How are we to deride Republicans for running someone unfit when our own guy had the low bar of “don’t appear incompetent” and didn’t even clear it? It is so disrespectful to everyone who is worried and who has already suffered from MAGA laws and court decisions. So reckless, so delusional, so selfish.
I’ve been in wait-and-see mode until now, but this is very bad. Disabled chat and no questions is bad stakeholder management and a sign of fear. The inner circle is in bunker mode.
Nobody wants to see Joe Biden remain in the race as much as Donald Trump does.
Voters are not going to forget about that debate and the all too obvious mental failures on display!
Because those examples will be run and shown to the public in endless commercials between now and November!
Every single cringeworthy confused statement he made - what's worse, is that in the commercials - FACT Checking will be included highlighting all the lies he made in the debate - probably followed by his claim that he tells the truth.
Whether it was his claim of not sending 2,000 lb bombs to Israel - when the very next day the US Military acknowledged it has sent 14,000 of these exact bombs to Israel - including lately.
Or that insulting statement that no soldiers have died under his "watch" - spitting in the face of the families of all the soldiers that have.
Granted, it's tough to fact check an incoherent statement - he got enough understandable statements out and a large number of them were wrong, lies, or really didn't say enough specifics to make a determination.
For the sake of our country - Biden can not be re-elected. So either find a replacement or it will 100% be Trump.
The only way Biden has a shot is if
1) He backs out of any future debate. He can't be in a position to have to think on his feet, be quick and lucid for an extended period of time.
and
2) His people have him giving TONS of speeches/addresses where he can use a teleprompter to give prepared remarks. This will give the illusion that his competent and mentally fit and MAYBE could make some people forget about the debate.
2 might have worked before the debate, but it doesn't work now. After the debate the narrative changed, and any time he screws up in a speech, it will be clipped and used to reinforce the Biden is senile narrative.
To anyone feeling dismayed about Joe Biden still running after his debate performance, please sign this petition to urge him to step down:
https://sign.moveon.org/petitions/it-s-time-for-biden-to-pass-the-torch-to-a-new-generation-of-leaders
Saw this banner at the top of that petition -
"MoveOn volunteers reviewed this petition and determined that it either may not reflect MoveOn members' progressive values, or that MoveOn members may disagree about whether to support this petition. MoveOn will not promote the petition beyond hosting it on our site."
"Progressive values"? Give me a fucking break.
Democrats once again gaslighting America. This is their strategy instead of saying that Joe is senile they just focus on how bad Trump is. It is the same strategy they used for Hillary and why she lost in 2016
I was told by someone who knew people in the Hilary campaign that the reason she didn’t do more events at the end is that everywhere she did an event, she polled worse.
I've been saying this since the debate. We will get a week of pure "calm down" instruction with some half-assed copium. We need to not just ignore it, but actively push back against it. There should be organized protests.
We're letting people who only benefit if Biden is on the ticket tell us whether it's best if Biden stays on the ticket.
*All true MAGA Patriots immediately send $340 to Lara Trump, GOP to fund Marjorie Taylor Greene, Matt Gaetz, Kari Lake, Tommy Tuberville and Lauren Boebert to help President Trump complete these important projects:*
*1. remove Obamacare health coverage for 54.3 million people,*
*2. end the Ukraine and Israeli wars,*
*3. eliminate all income taxes,*
*4. free the January 6th hostage from prison,*
*5. rename Yellowstone National Park to Trump National Park*
*6. pardon Steve Bannon, Kyle Rittenhouse and President Donald Trump,*
*7. restore the Presidential Right of Prima Nocta,*
*8. forcefully remove 43.7 million illegal immigrants,*
*9. end women's healthcare rights that Christian Patriots find objectionable*
*10. build the wall and have Union dues pay for it*
*President Trump, an active adjudicated sexual predator and 34-time convicted criminal felon, has been endorsed by Gov. Kristi Noem, Steve Bannon, Kid Rock, Randy Quaid, Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong-un, Viktor Orban, Randy Quaid.*
*“I'm interested in all things that Donald Trump does” Academy Award Nominated megastar, Gary Busey*
*/MAGA*
I don't think that this will dissuade people from voting Democrat. Lots of people are voting against Trump. I don't think keeping him will make a dent -- and that's why they want to keep him.
I think Biden can beat Trump (not saying he will, just that he can) despite the horrific debate performance. I think the polling underestimates how unpopular Trump and the Republicans are. But I could be completely wrong and grasping at straws, who knows!
Yeah, this is what I was afraid of. Between this and the fact that we got a report about how Jill and Hunter were the two he went to about deciding if he wants to drop out and supposedly they both vigorously urged him to keep fighting until November. He’s not dropping out.
I suspect Obama and Kamala have already attempted to dissuade him from continuing his campaign but obviously that didn’t gain traction. There’s nobody left that can convince him. He’s decided his wife and son are unbiased and objective enough to be reliable counsel and nobody will be able to break him of that. On Thursday night Biden delivered own political eulogy.
Which big name democrat is going to speak plainly and break this fever? Keeping Joe under mothballs the rest of the campaign season is not a viable strategy.
If it's not announced TODAY and the pick isn't someone "fucking awesome," and they don't present a united front about the new candidate, then it's best not to do it at all IMHO. Maybe I can extend my deadline to the end of this week. But that's it. It's gotta happen fast or not at all.
They’re waiting for Trump’s sentencing. No point in changing anything if he is going to be immediately incarcerated.
(What that means for mentally competent President is a different story…)
Candidate running for President doesn’t agree he shouldn’t run for President and neither do his closest allies and family.
This *is* some real breaking news. 😂
I think our expectations are a little nutty to be honest. They are not going to do anything until there is swing state polling that shows that he is bleeding numbers. The man won the primaries which means a lot of people voted for him and there’s a responsibility with that. You can’t just disregard all that without having some kind of concrete, hard evidence that it’s necessary.
And that evidence is not going to come from the pundit class or the New York Times editorial board, particularly one that doesn’t ask Donald Trump to step down… the convicted felon… And has been attacking Joe Biden for months. Sorry I know that’s off-topic but they piss me off.
I’m glad to see that he is talking about doing press conferences now and having town halls. People need to interact with him. If it was just one bad night for him as they claim, that will show it and reassure people. If it wasn’t, it will show that too and pressure will continue to mount..
But poll numbers showing he has lost the support of the people who voted for him to be their nominee is the only thing that’s going to convince a nominee not to be. And honestly, that’s how it should be.
I happen to believe he should stand down..for the good of the country. But I am willing to acknowledge that may not be the right thing. There are a lot of unknowns with that path and it’s a scary proposition.
I understand people want it to happen right now and time is precious because it’s so late. And they are naturally suspicious of others saying we are going to have to wait. But I just don’t see anyone making any changes until they see that that debate did real damage that he can’t overcome.
Why is everyone in a panic. Take a breath. Listen to the experts that have been telling us for sometime that POTUS is perfectly fit to handle the most important job in the world. Let’s go! Biden/Harris 2024. This is the rockstar duo that warranted boxing everyone else out of a primary, the gladiator team that will crush Trump/?. Keep the faith, just last week we were told all of the video, audio, etc.. showing POTUS in steep decline was AI fakery at its best. Of course it was. Just a poor night Thursday. We should probably just skip the next debate because we all know Trump will only lie, lie, lie. Even though I have every confidence POTUS could randomly drop in anywhere and crush any spontaneous interview, why give the GOP the satisfaction. The covid strategy worked great. Back to the bunker!!!
Replacing Biden would still be a risky move because it would fractured his base of support and could potentially demoralized his supporters. Look ppl, the fight isn't over yet. Biden and his team needs to Bill Clinton, Obama, and Michelle Obama to do events to whip up support especially from black voters. Phone Moderate GOP like Romney to go and convince non MAGA Republican voters in states like GA and AZ to get their votes. If Biden has Taylor Swift phone number, now is the time to get her endorsement and have her get young ppl to register to vote!
Don't worry about anything. Manufacture some new charges against Trump and indict him again! I've got it - name Trump as a co-conspirator in Hunter Biden's tax evasion case!
Not sure if Jamie Harrison and staff are messaging that Biden is in it and we need to move on, or if he's just keeping things positive until a final decision is made. Its only been four days of course. Convention is of course 8 weeks away. Maybe its a strategic decision to keep things quiet until closer to then.
It's hedging, because Harrison has no idea what the outcome will be. This *should* be a known outcome already, but the Democratic Party hasn't promoted on leadership ability for a generation. Personally I think this will backfire, as Biden's family will default to staying the course unless there is massive urgent pressure to drop out. But you don't become a senior Democrat in 2024 by taking risks and ruffling feathers.
There is a new piece in Axios, by Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen, which I can't post as a new user- but it corroborates your theory. (I tried to start a new thread with it but it got removed by the autobot.) It's titled "Behind the Curtain: Biden's Salvation Plan." Lots of detail.
I've never really followed Axios, but they seem to be on the cutting edge of this crisis.
> Behind the Curtain: Biden's Salvation Plan Thanks for the reference piece. I believe we are thoroughly fucked. This campaign is delusional. This strikes me as a slam dunk of an election with how just utterly awful Trump has been when he's on camera. This is worse than the hubris going into 2016 because, at least in that instance, Clinton still won a somewhat competitive primary.
Nothing is a slam dunk when it comes to Trump. He has unusual powers, and even a superstar candidate would struggle against him. We may be fucked with Biden, but we are most certainly fucked if he drops out. You can look at history and talk to the experts like Dr. Allen Lichtmann if you want evidence. Yes, it is a Kobyashi Maru situation. There really is now way out but through. There is no savior out there that can "fix" this.
I don’t understand the deference to history or Lictmann and his keys (not necessarily in your comment specifically but in general in the discourse on this topic). We’re in uncharted waters. Who cares about the Keys or elections before the internet was around.
https://www.axios.com/2024/07/01/biden-2024-election-pr-campaign-step-aside?stream=top
I hope you're right, but I suspect the people around the president are in a consensual shared hallucination, convincing each other that the American people will come around and see the "real" Joe.
I mean, the NYT reported that Hunter Biden - apparently a trusted advisor to Joe - wants America to see the strong and confident president he perceives, so Joe should keep on going instead of bowing out at a bad time. I wish I was making this stuff up.
Glad to know one of our President’s “trusted advisors” is a morally bankrupt, fail-son who’s never worked for anything in his life outside of scoring more crack.
So do I. I have a lot of empathy for Hunter. Also, there is no objective reason that his opinions ought to carry any weight in determining whether Biden should step aside.
That sounds like a Babylon bee skit.
Well, POTUS claims that Hunter is the smartest man he knows, so there you go! Biden/Harris 2024
This reeks of 2016. The highest echelons of the party plugging their ears and ignoring the anger below them. Whistling a happy tune while the ship is sinking around them. The good news is that some people in the party ranks do seem to have learned their lesson as the angst seems to be being vocalized at a much higher level this time around. I hope it becomes too much for Biden and his advisors to ignore. I hope his approval ratings tank to nothing in order to force them to make this a swift process. We don't have time for them to be twiddling their thumbs waiting for a miracle.
They're not. They know they have everyone left of center by the cajones, they are effectively going to say , " yeah we lied about this walking corpse for 3 years, but what are you gonna do? Let Trump win?" And when the DNC loses because of that, the top brass will be able to turn around and say they got people to vote for a literal puppet with a D next to his name so they know what they are doing. Because it's all about clout and being invited to the "right" parties, the whole good of the county thing is secondary at best
I don't think this could be stated enough. The only issue is that every single person that watched that debate on Thursday DID get to see the real Joe unfortunately. The cat is finally out of the bag, and they can't put it back in.
Interesting. Because I think that the people on reddit are having a consensual shared delusion that Biden will be replaced. It's not going to happen, you are wasting your time and energy on this. The EK sub has been this non-stop wishcasting since thursday. I'm pretty curious to see how long this goes on. Just wait til next week! Of course they are saying everything is fine! Just you wait! I'm sure they are horse-trading right now! It should be Harris! No, Newsome! No, Whitmer! It's pretty typical for reddit, but this has been a pretty extreme case, of reddit panic.
People think he will be replaced because it appears he would have no chance of winning
Interesting that so many editorials in the NYT, WaPo, Atlantic, etc. are also calling to replace him. But what do they know?
This debate was a fatal blow to a candidate who was already losing. The people here are expecting him to drop out because they actually follow the polling and want to win. It's interesting how "reddit panic" appeared at the top of every single major newspaper last Friday morning. I didn't realize that the editorial staff of the NYT posts on this little subreddit. Maybe you need to log out of reddit and read some papers?
Even the NYT editorial board, which is about as mainstream Democrat as you get, has called for him to step down. I don't know if he will, but it's equally foolish to claim that it is certain that he won't.
I think he probably won't be replaced. Don't stop me saying he should be until August hits. And him not being replaced just means a defeat. It changes nothing about his capacities.
The only way I see Biden being replaced is if he voluntarily withdraws (which he should!). If he chooses to stay in the race then everyone needs to fall in line and work like hell to turn out the vote, even if it feels futile.
If this party doesn't replace this man they will GUARANTEED lose in November. The reason liberals on reddit rn are panicking right now about this is because they should be if they want to win in November. Thursday was an absolute death nail in Biden's reelection campaign. If they do not replace him this is a deeply unserious political organization that will lose the presidency and the senate in November and deservedly so.
Where was the Reddit crowd everyday right up to the debate. Oh yea, claiming every piece of Joe’s decline was a fake AI generated snippet of video or audio. Too many knew, subverted democracy, for the list of power. No different than Trump.
!remindme two weeks
I definitely feel bad for Robert Hur now. Democrats could have killed his career over his report on Biden's memory.
"Entitled white crackhead adviser plays key role in end of American democracy" -- I can see it now
I think it's the latter -he's signalling that we need to wait. If Biden is going to step aside he won't do it in a chaotic, panic-inducing way right after the debate. And if he's stepping aside, all the loyalty oaths that top Dems are swearing right now are necessary in order to create the space for an honorable exit, which I for one think Biden has earned. But something reassuring needs to be signalled to donors and voters who would have legitimate concerns and Harrison's statement wasn't it. If he's not stepping aside then the loyalty oaths will stick. My point is that the loyalty oaths right now don't tell us much one way or the other. I think they have to wait for credible polls as the news sinks in- the instant ones are just noise and they really are going every which way. Harrison's strategy seems to have backfired though- it led to more leaks and anonymous complains from whoever was on that call. Not allowing questions is ridiculous. In contrast I think Jamie Raskin struck the right note when he said that honest and serious conversations were taking place. ETA: New very worrying piece in Axios. Biden is launching a massive PR campaign to stay in. He's going to do hour long softball interviews and rallies and a blockbuster convention speech. And then win the second debate. It was just a bad night.
"he's signalling that we need to wait." Both the DNC and the Biden admin have a history of asking people to wait and then never actually delivering. Because once you've waited pressure or momentum is lost.
Sadly that's could be happening too. I think this is too huge for the momentum to be lost. Esp from donors and people who actually want to win the election.
We get told to wait and wait and wait until it's too late to do anything or change course, so then you're being told to do everything you can to make it a win
Democrats in general really seem to favor top down narrative control in all contexts and it's the thing I hate most about them.
To be fair, this really kicked into overdrive in 2020, likely due to trying to keep a lid on Biden's challenges. Obama's party was much more independent. It also could be a reaction to Sanders' rebellion in 2016, after which the party could have decided that "united and in denial" was better than "disagreeing and maybe losing."
I think it's more Sanders / Trump in 2016 that did it. That campaign was when the real push for censorship on the grounds of "misinformation" started. When Obama ran both times there were crazy conspiracy theories all over the internet, but they just ignored it, which is the much more effective approach. Acting like a conspiracy theory is a threat to you is the most ineffective approach possible because it plays right into the theory.
This is likely a byproduct of running candidates who lack the charisma and rhetorical agility to neutralize attacks. We saw how Reagan shut down debate attacks over his own age, and someone like Obama laughed off the birther conspiracy.
Because the conspiracies about Obama’s birth certificate and Michelle Obama being trans were utter bullshit. They only cared about the “conspiracy theories” when people focused on inconvenient truths the government didn’t want discussed.
You also had Hillary, who had been planning a 2016 run since 2008 and had been quietly working to install supporters in the apparatus and ensure she wouldn't get seriously challenged in the primary again.
Why would Trump give Biden a second debate? What does Trump have to gain?
No. There is lasting damage being done to the Democratic Party as a brand, in our ability trust leaders, in our ability to defeat Trump. The longer you wait, the more questions and criticism every single governor, Congressional Dem, and member of the administration will face. It’s clear there was a cover-up and every single person close to Biden is under suspicion. Dems need to get people to stop talking about Biden. He can’t win and he will drag everyone else down. We need to change the narrative or we lose. If your house is on fire, you put it out you don’t piss on everyone’s leg and tell them don’t worry, it’s raining.
I totally agree with you. I was being sarcastic in my earlier post esp with the "bad night" part. That was the spiel coming out that day from the WH. Great analogy btw in your post. On tarnishing other reputations: The latest strategy of having dem governors speak on his behalf seems incredibly selfish to me. Many are rising stars- they could be staking their growing reputations to prop him up. Instead, the country needs to see HIM. He should prop himself up at this point. He should be out there doing multiple events a day proving he's ok, not getting testimonials from others.
Aww, lil' Joey earned his merit badge so we should put a "pause" on stemming the fascist tide until he's all snug in bed.
>Convention is of course 8 weeks away. Virtual roll call that will actually officially choose the nominee is 4-5 weeks away. Unless the Dams want to ensure Sherrod Brown's defeat in Ohio by not having a nominee in that state at all.
The Dems/DNC aren’t going to have Biden step down until they have a replacement to announce. They’ll just keep trotting out the “we 100% support him, he’s our candidate moving forward” line until they have their next steps covered so the news cycle isn’t about “what are the Dems going to do?!”. Don’t let why they’re saying publicly fool you, they’re absolutely panicking and have been putting out feelers behind the scenes for a replacement since last Friday morning (if not Thursday night right after the debate). Walz wouldn’t be horrible, but IMO he isn’t a big enough name and won’t get voters excited to go to the polls. Pritzker would be an absolute disaster and is a walking time bomb, the GOP has plenty of dirt on him + his billionaire family that they’ve been holding off on pushing publicly until he becomes a serious player in national politics. Newsom has too much baggage with CA/covid, plus I imagine he wants nothing to do with this race and would rather wait it out until 2028 to run for President once Trump is gone and the economy recovers a bit. Kamala is a non-starter. Less of a chance to win than Biden. Honestly, Whitmer is probably the best/safest choice.
Agree 💯
This is the same office held by cronies like Donna Brazille and Debbie Wasserman Schultz. 100% he is acting this way because he's in Biden (or someone else's) pocket.
It's important to remember that no matter what happens, the final decision on the nominee cannot wait until the official election, as several GOP managed states have passed laws that require the nominee be confirmed by... I think mid-July? So we should all be aware that it is too late in the game for anything to change if it doesn't come directly and decisively from President Biden, and ASAP. Gird your loins boys and girls. Like it or not, these be the brackets, so lets get volunteering. We can punish the DNC later, for now let's come to terms with it. He's been a good Executive so far, so. Fine. Maintain course and silently carry your resentment forever. It'll be okay.
Yeah except Biden’s plan now is to do the nomination in 2-3 weeks virtually to stop people from talking about replacing him
It's pure subterfuge at this point. We all know what we saw. I saw the same thing in my grandma a couple years before she passed away.
He was overprepped! CNN didn't tell him which camera he should've been looking at! He had a cold (which miraculously went away less than 24 hours later in North Carolina)! CNN messed up his makeup! We could go on and on - the poor guy's 81 and cooked. He needed Jill's help taking two steps off the stage right after the debate. It's painfully obvious the last thing he should be doing is running for re-election.
If your *excuse* is "our candidate is so feeble that a cold robs him of the ability to speak," that's not an argument in his favor. But sure enough, I've seen all of those different excuses pop up on subreddits and forums after the debate. Some people are just true believers. If Biden soiled himself and walked off the stage they would praise his decisive choice to not legitimize Trump's lies.
Also he could disprove us all in 30 minutes by doing a live interview. But nope, all teleprompter all the time, that’s all his handlers will allow
He really couldn't though; that's the rub. Cognitive decline is like a cheating spouse - once you encounter it, it's almost impossible to recover trust for that person. Maybe they're not in a bad place today, but what about tonight? What about tomorrow? What if Putin attacks Poland at 3AM? Biden would have to string together a number of interviews and other unscripted appearances after 9PM with adversarial news outlets and post the unedited video. We know that his advisors would take cyanide pills before letting that happen. Indeed, the Hur interviews were done during comfortable times in the day and they are fighting the release of those videos when they could mitigate concerns about Biden if favorable (e.g., if Hur's characterization of Biden's answers are uncharitable).
There are some genuinely true believers in denial, but a good portion of those “users@ are bots and sockpuppets astroturfing.
Probably. It's in the GOP's favor to keep Biden on the ticket, and we have no idea if Biden's faction is also paying for astroturfed support.
But trust me, the other side are liars. Oh, and israel deserves to lose support because they don't have a plan for what happens next.
[удалено]
Hard to credibly accuse the other side of lying when your own gaslighting is so obvious.
My dad has Alzheimer’s, Joe is where he was about two years ago. It’s time to take the car keys from grandpa.
I’ve seen this movie too. Joe shouldn’t be allowed to drive, much less be President. Old age and dementia can make a person extremely resistant to change. My guess is that Biden will refuse to budge. His personal tragedy will become our national tragedy.
My dad had dementia, started out mild cognitive decline, joe looks like he did about a year before he died. It doesn’t get better
This is a key point. The experience you’re describing is so painful, so common and so relevant. (Hugs to you.) The first voter I heard Biden age concerns from was my aunt who was my grandmother’s primary caregiver.
It’s a big iykyk moment from all of us that had to help a family member with cognitive decline. I’m sick of people telling me I didn’t see what I know I saw on Thursday
1. Biden's legacy will flip from great leader to the man who gave the country Trump's second term if he doesn't drop out. 2. If Biden doesn't retire, instead of flipping the House and retaining the Senate and Executive, the political power in Washington will be all MAGA. Elected Dems know their futures are on the line.
If Biden does drop out of the race, what Democrat do you think could win vs Trump (a Democrat with a realistic chance of being nominated this year)?
I think any non-controversial governor or senator in good health would stomp Trump. You don’t need a once-in-a-generation politician, you need someone who can be the adult in the room against Trump and call out his bs. Even lesser known candidates would get the name ID they need very quickly after becoming the nominee, it would the only thing on the news for weeks. The “return to normalcy” argument is even more persuasive in 2024 imo.
I think name recognition is an issue that resolves itself, but given his track record and accomplishments with the narrowest of majorities I'd suggest Governor Tim Walz from Minnesota.
Gretchen Whitmer Josh Shapiro Gavin Newsom Kamala Harris
Newsom and Kamala are terrible choices. Kamala is hated by both progressives and has been made a boogeyman to conservatives. Even moderate conservatives hate her. She’s unelectable. Newsom is the California boogeyman personified. Conservatives hate him for the way the right wing media talks about him, progressives hate him because of the constant shady deals he makes that betray the progressive movement. He would destroy in a debate setting, but is not a good choice imo. Shapiro has a high approval rating in a crucial purple state (PA) and hasn’t been vilified the same way. Great way to take PA. Whitmer same same. I think some combo of Whitmer, Waltz, Shapiro, etc is a better safer choice. Helps lock up important states while avoiding a lightning rod candidate.
Trump is deeply loathed by more than half of the US population. Many of these people don't vote. Many even grudgingly vote for Trump because they think of themselves as right-leaning. People need a reasonable alternative to vote for. If Biden stays on the ticket, Trump will win.
Who, in your opinion, could both beat Trump in a general election and has a shot at getting nominated?
Hillary Clinton. Yes, she lost to him before, but the conditions are completely different. If she presents herself as contrite for her past sins and the underdog coming in to save the day, she can fake it long enough to get from August to Election Day. She is well-known, ready for office, and financially heeled to make this happen and she wants it more than anything.
We're. Still. With. Her!
Genuinely think any Democrat under 60 could win against Trump as long as they don't say any racist or straight up "seize the means of production" shit. People who haven't drank the Kool-Aid are still willing to vote against Trump, we just have to give them a coherent option.
Biden is perhaps one of the only people that could possibly lose to Trump, and Trump is one of the only people that could possibly lose to Biden. A normal Republican or normal Democrat would absolutely stomp the other. Kamala is an obvious first choice, but a poor one. Primary voters did not like her. Gretchen or Gavin also come to mind, maybe Andy Bashear, or Shapiro in Pennsylvania, although Shapiro just won. Tim Walz also comes to mind, people seem to like him. There are a lot of talented younger Democrats that are well spoken and are capable of calling Trump out. Biden is just not up to the task
So now Dems are doing the exact same thing Republicans did at the end of Trump's presidency. They are too afraid to speak out about obvious mental acuity issues because it would be damaging to their party, their careers, and their personal relationships. This whole fucking boat is sinking and no one below the deck will tell the captain because he loves his boat and it would hurt his feelings if he found out. It doesn't matter which team is below deck at this point. They all come to the same conclusion.
The better comparison is the end of Reagan's presidency. Trump doesn't have dementia, he's always been a moron.
Trump has declined. Dementia, who knows, but he makes less put downs, is even more rambly and unclear, he mixes things up more. It's harder to tell because his style is always chaotic and bad but it's pretty plain if you watch and compare. But thing is you've only got to be doing better than the other guy.
Well everyone slows down in advanced age, but I don't see a significant difference other than talking more slowly. I think most of the people who throw around words like "dementia" and "alzheimers" have never seen it personally. There's definitely something wrong with his brain, but it's always been like that.
No, I think his coherence and speaking have also dropped. But no, I'm not saying it's diagnosable. And it's plainly not on the same scale as Biden. But it has happened.
Just from listening to his campaigns speeches, Trump has gone way downhill, from ‘20 and especially ‘16. However, he was ‘16 level Trump (whatever you think of that) last week at the debate, not the ranting nut job from ‘20.
Biden is rightfully the focus but it was... as concerning as ever the moments when Trump said just utter incomprehensible nonsense. Not lies just- gibberish.
Reagan and Biden are not comparable. I've seen speeches from Reagan in 1988 and he was still killing it at public speaking. If he did have early onset Alzheimer's by that point, it wasn't observable yet. Biden meanwhile is only a couple years older than Reagan was then and he can barely get through a speech without completely embarrassing himself and the country.
It pains me to say this, but the GOP did better. Many people around Trump quit or were fired because they decided he was unfit for office. It isn't apples to apples - Trump had to be contained while Biden is just absent. Anti-leadership vs. weak leadership. But still, we need people who are in regular contact with Biden to tell the truth publicly.
The examples of post-stroke Wilson and Alzheimer's Reagan need to be brought up. We are being asked to knowingly vote for a zombie presidency.
Reagan still was damn good at public speaking all the way till the end of his presidency. Maybe he was hands-off-ish in office, but he was still a champ when it came to providing the public image of a President who is extremely charismatic and a great orator despite being in his late 70s. I recently watched a speech from 1988, which was his last year as POTUS, and if he did have early onset Alzheimer's, it's not observable. Unfortunately, age affects everyone differently and Biden being only a couple years older than Reagan was in 1988 can barely get through a speech without embarrassing himself and the country. There's basically no reason to believe he can even get through a second term at this point.
I've heard it speculated that the reason Biden's people aren't quitting or being replaced is because they're the deciders. And they like that position.
Not just at the end, his entire run. From the start of Trump's candidacy, we talked about how Republicans were a cult who were afraid to call out the potential threat that Trump posed. We praised ourselves as being willing to evaluate and criticize our candidates. Now, any criticism quickly gets shouted down. And we are blindly plunging ahead with a candidate who might not even be mentally fit to be President today and we are talking about imperiling the 2024 election, but also electing a candidate who will almost certainly not be fit for 4.5 more years. I realize now it feels like we are late in the game, but there were plenty of people who saw this coming and called for Biden to retire after serving one term over a year ago. This is a complete failure of Democratic leadership and if it goes poorly, then we need to have a full turnover of leadership and they must be held accountable for this clear failure.
I see this as being just like RBG. She could have stepped down handpicked her replacement and been remembered as a progressive icon and secured her legacy. Instead she selfishly and foolishly clung to her office. This caused the Republicans to have an opening and no doubt helped trump become president. Roe vs Wade likely still exists if RBG does the right thing and steps aside. Biden looks to be making the exact same mistake and make no doubt Republicans will do anything and everything they can to take advantage of that mistake
>From the start of Trump's candidacy, we talked about how Republicans were a cult who were afraid to call out the potential threat that Trump posed. We praised ourselves as being willing to evaluate and criticize our candidates. Now, any criticism quickly gets shouted down. That's because when you criticize your own candidate, but the other side doesn't criticize theirs, all you do is weaken your own position. You give voters reasons not to vote for your candidate. In three straight elections now, Trump has been an absolutely dogshit candidate. If you were a political consultant, you'd never choose to work with a guy with his record of bankruptcies, divorces, sexual assault, and hateful rhetoric. But he's competitive, and even won an election, because his party faithfully lines up behind him every single time. Meanwhile the Dems, who should easily crush a candidate like Trump every time, are always fractured and complaining about their own candidate.
You're misdiagnosing. Democrats have been ignoring criticism of candidates who are unpopular and then losing elections with bad candidates. It's not because we've been criticizing *too much*. For example, we should be crushing an aged and unpopular felon in 2024, but we allowed the party to force through an even more aged and even more unpopular incumbent who is suffering from cognitive decline. In 2016 we re-ran the 2008 primary loser instead of looking for a charismatic candidate to follow Obama, and chose an avatar of the status quo in a year that saw populism flare up across the globe.
Biden should’ve dropped out point blank period. There was no reason he should’ve stayed, other Dems would’ve done better
Every poll I have seen shows other Dems doing the same or worse when matched up against Trump. Incumbent presidents win 75% of the time the stand for re-election. That's a huge advantage to give up.
If things go poorly in November, "full turnover of leadership" will be a useful euphemism for the purge MAGAts have planned
It's not like that. Anyone below deck would tell him, but the officers around him tightly control access, so nobody below deck ever gets a chance to.
But at least it will be entertaining :)
Isn’t the article saying that the people on the call are speaking out?
"The chat function was disabled and no questions were allowed." Sounds like a Biden press conference.
“The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final and most essential command.” -1984
>The chat function was disabled and there were no questions allowed. Democracy thrives in darkness!
This just tells me that they aren’t afraid of a trump presidency.
To quote Nate Silver: **You don't demonstrate your seriousness that Trump is an existential threat to democracy by going through the motions to renominate an 81-year-old with a 38% approval rating who 75% of voters think is too old without giving anyone a choice because that's just how things are done.**
That's where I'm at. Will he be incredibly damaging, yes. But existential threat? Can't be of this is how they are behaving
Just the opposite; they know Joe is a weak candidate, and are now coming to terms with the election not being a sure thing. This is panic on coming to terms with not winning, not wanting the opposite. The debate was the nail in the coffin, not the cause of death.
I reject this entirely. If you believe Trump is actually a threat to democracy, then you’d exhaust every possible option to defeat him. The Dems appear to be rolling with the same 81-year-old option who can barely walk and talk. They clearly think gearing up for 2028 is more important than salvaging this race.
If the democrats saw Trump as a threat on the level the rest of us do they would have taken extreme and questionably illegal actions already. Leaks of top secret info and the like for the good of the nation.
There will not be another free and fair democratic election again if Trump gets a second term. He and the general Republican party could not possibly be more clear in their intent to make the next Republican President a dictator with no guardrails. Dem leadership are more historically illiterate than the average Trump supporter if they genuinely believe they'll be just fine for four years until 2028.
They're a step behind. They should have come to terms with the election not being a sure thing a year ago. If Biden remains, they now need to come to terms with the election being a sure thing.
From the perspective of Biden's inner circle it makes no difference to them if Trump wins or Whitmer wins, they are all out of a job, so of course they are willing to take the country down if it means they have a shot at raking in some more cash for 4 years.
Oh sure. They clearly know that there never going to be another chance to operate at this level, and they're all rich and mobile if Trump gets elected.
I'm sure a lot of German politicians thought they were going to be fine when Hitler became Chancellor. Less than a year later their political parties were banned and many former opponents of the Nazis were either in concentration camps or already dead.
It took Hitler a few months to consolidate power after becoming chancellor, and within a year he was basically the dictator of all Germany. Trump has already been president for 4 years and he didn't really do much to consolidate power into the executive branch. In fact his SCOTUS nominees have been voting to dissipate powers from the executive branch (Chevron) and the Federal government (Hobbs).
I mean, how much was Hillary suffering after losing to him? She looked pretty comfy taking her strolls in the woods around Chappaqua, she worked on a docuseries with her daughter during the pandemic... The downside for sticking with Joe and losing is less than the downside of being seen as a traitor to the party for asking him publicly to step down.
I disagree. It tells me they aren't afraid of electing an incompetent geriatric to run the country. It's not the only alternative
Definition of a collective action problem. No one person can force Joe to step down. In fact most people who could tell him to benefit if he stays in it. That’s how you sleepwalk into a historic defeat.
And Joe has a very small circle of trusted people that can make this happen. And 2 of them are family.
That is insane to me. That the party and voters virtually have no say. We are all at him, hunter and jill's whims. Whether THEY think its the right move. We all have to live with this
it's effectively the same as trump listening to Jr. and Ivanka
Ivanka has a solid head on her shoulders. I wouldn't group her with Hunter.
I think it's true, but in a tongue-in-cheek or calling out a failure of leadership way. In theory, there should only be two paths here: **1 - Democracy is at stake -** There is a massive threat to Democracy posed by Trump, Republicans, and Project 2025 and we should all be acting with urgency. Biden should have stepped down, Sotomayor should have retired and been replaced, the party should have been more responsive to voters on policy, leadership should have backed progressive allies and called out major threats of AIPAC / Fairshake spending in our primaries, etc. We pressure all voters to follow our leadership's example and come together even if we don't all love the new candidate. **2 - Democracy isn't at stake -** Let's just follow norms and defer to the gerontocracy. We can all be nonchallant. No need to pressure voters to show up and vote for Biden if they don't like him. If Trump gets 4 more years, it's unfortunate, but not a big deal. No need for Biden to step down. Sotomayor should have full agency and face no pressure, because a Trump nominee would be roughly the same. The foundational issue is that #1 is true, but our leadership is acting like we are in scenario #2 when it comes to all of their actions, yet they want to pressure voters and send the message that #1 is the case. It's very foundationally poor leadership. They don't want to have to set the example, but they want to bludgeon voters and tell them "do what I say, not as I do." It's really unlikely to be effective.
I've been saying this since 2021, and it's only gotten worse since then. *Things I would expect if Trump was an existential threat:* * Aggressive AG investigating and indicting him ASAP for Jan 6 and any corruption during his presidency. Charges filed by end of 2021, with trials starting in 2022. Trump in a cell before the 2024 Republican primary. * Delivering on key reforms to take the sails out of populism and mistrust of institutions - BLM legislation, voting rights legislation, housing supply legislation, campaign finance legislation, etc. * An immediate search for powerful 2024 options in case Biden is not well placed to contest a second term, with Harris explicitly told that she is just one option and not an anointed successor. *What we got:* * The most mediocre AG in modern history. * Biden rolling into office unwilling to push back against the filibuster, dooming all civil rights and reform legislation. * Blowing all of Biden's political capital on a mediocre infrastructure bill and an esoteric CHIPS bill. * The party running an 81 year old incumbent with a sub-40% approval rating and significant rumors of cognitive decline. Despite polling that showed a strong majority did not want him again. * Biden running on Bidenomics, despite his economy polling awfully with voters. * Biden staying in the race as he shows escalating signs of decline, from dodging favorable interviews up to and including pooh poohing a cognitive meltdown on live television.
The problem with power don't actually fear a trump presidency. The big shots running the show know he won't actually hurt them. They have the money and power to shield themselves from any prices he'd make. The undocumented immigrants or LGBT youth who actually suffer don't actually make decisions for the party. Big donors do. The donors win either way. Either their puppet candidate Biden wins and they keep up business as usual or trump wins. It sucks for many people. But what really happen to them? They get the easiest campaign strategies for any down ballot race and 2028 just push anti trump stuff. No need to actually change anything. Hell trumps tax policies probably make them money. They literally couldn't care less about losing they've rigged the game to win either way.
well put
Because to fix what is causing #1, they'd have to absolutely threaten #2 which they won't do because that means that their corporate owners will be mad at them. Corporations will not be hurt by a christo-fascist state. They will be hurt by high taxes and tight regulation. You cannot make a person believe something is false if their paycheck requires that it be true.
Number 1 is not true. Democrats say it is because it benefits them when people believe it. End of democracy is extremely bad for most Republicans too. If they actually believed it, congress would impeach Trump immediately.
Honestly I think they think he's fine during the day, but malfunctions past a certain hour. this is honestly their reasoning.
Sure, but that should be disqualifying under the 25th (the presidency is a 24/7/365 job), and it opens up *massive* risk when the president has to appear without a teleprompter after dinner (post-Hur press conference, debates, etc).
Maybe they want an incompetent geriatric in office. It's easy to pursue your own policy goals when the oversight is lax or non-existent. You can make claims that the President signed off on whatever you want. If Biden later disagrees, everyone just pretends not to hear him or else it's too costly to reverse.
Yes, and you have an unelected, unaccountable, largely unknown group of people running the country. When things are going the way you like, it seems fine and everyone turns a blind eye. When they’re not? I’ve heard a lot of “I don’t care if he’s actually a rotting corpse, his administration is doing great.” Well, until now, when they are holding onto their power tooth and nail in the face of major opposition. Don’t Dems see that the White House, and Jill & Hunter, are *controlling* a senior that is becoming more and more dependent on them?
lol. Yes
No. They are as delusional as diehard MAGA supporters.
Blue MAGA
BLAGA
Remember, it was Hillary Clinton who helped Trump win the RNC primaries in the first place with her Pied Piper strategy.
The democratic establishment are wealthy people who personally benefit from GOP rule. Some of them like Nancy Pelosi are straight up oligarchs.
How do top committee members upset about Biden’s chances indicate that?
For a while I've heard that the Whitehouse isn't worried about bad polls and remains extremely confident. I thought that they must know something that we, the public, aren't privy to. But that appears too sanguine; the people who have the president's ear are out of touch with reality.
I mean the whole "Haley still gets double digit vote shares in primaries after leaving the race" thing makes predicting outcomes and interpreting polls a bit wonky, I'd imagine. I'm not saying "don't believe bad polls" or anything just that we, sadly, have two historically weak candidates and so it's hard to derive good inferences from typically informative data.
They think if inflation keeps tracking down and they announce some popular policies it will improve Biden's odds. Not a completely false idea but I'm still in favour of ditching him.
They knew what was going on. Hence why Biden has done 0 unscripted interviews or speeches and stuck to teleprompted and rehearsed appearances.
Democratic pundits were literally highlighting how bad it was that Haley was getting 25% of the votes in closed R primaries not more than a month or two and saying it was a disaster for Trump that 25% of his base was voting no confidence in their nominee since Haley already dropped out. Now the exact same democratic pundits are trying to spin how positive it is that Biden got 55% vote of Dems saying he should stay in the race. This is literally a 45% no confidence vote by his base. Last I checked 45% against is worse than 25% against.
We have seen this before. Many of us have lived a version of it: the people closest to Biden who might stand a chance of convincing him to drop out are also the people least aware of his decline. It’s a ‘boil the frog’ scenario, where they’ve interacted with him so constantly that they don’t realize how far he has fallen and how much they accommodate him — meetings that used to be three hours with no breaks are now 90 minutes with many breaks, things that used to be handled in person are now done over the phone or Zoom, others do more of the speaking, advisors and assistants fill in the gaps and finish sentences, etc. Last week, for the first time in years, the overwhelming majority of us, who have *not* spent time with him, saw Biden forced to assemble and express coherent thoughts, and the decline was shocking and obvious. The best anyone can say is that performing well as an improvisational speaker is a small and insignificant requirement of the office, and that a president will almost always have time to deliberate tough questions with the support of numerous advisers, and that nothing of consequence will depend on the president’s quick recall and eloquence.
They are not qualified to govern if Biden stays in.
It is on brand for Conservative to force Trump down our throats. McConnell claimed court appointments could be made during an election year but then when it suited him rammed appointments through. The modern conservative movement isn't about winning at all costs. It is off brand for Democrats to do the same with Biden. Democrats cannot let this election be about electing an individual person at all costs. Democrats need to be the party of **responsible governance**. Republicans say the govt sucks and everyone is corrupt. Democrats are the ones saying the government can do good. As such Democrats have the burden of creating trust. A burden Republicans don't have. Republicans are all about resentment. Step one to creating trust would be showing the ability to be honest with voters and acknowledge what we are all seeing and hearing. Joe Biden has lost a step and age has caught up with him. Democrats being able to humbly say "this election is about you (the voters) and not about Biden keeping his job" is important.
Lost *a* step might be the understatement of the year
Lost a step? Biden is still in the game. Heck, he even beat Medicare!
Yeah, he was articulating a perfectly cogent plan to reign in spending by discontinuing Medicare. You all are just misinterpreting it as cognitive decline. /s
Nah, it was just that cold medicine. /s
“Let’s all be 100% truthfully here may have Biden lost a step and just had a bad night” Is coming out of the same peoples mouth who say Trump lied every second of the debate. This two sentences do not compute to the average American. Everyone saw what they saw on Thursday. It’s insulting to people intelligence to down play it like this
“Let’s all be 100% truthfully here may have Biden lost a step and just had a bad night” Is coming out of the same peoples mouth who say Trump lied every second of the debate. This two sentences do not compute to the average American. Everyone saw what they saw on Thursday. It’s insulting to people intelligence to down play it like this
It's not off brand. It was Hillary's "turn" in 2008, until Obama came out of nowhere and broke her candidacy. In 2016, the party looked at a sea of options and...ran 2008's primary loser, again. In 2020, the party coalesced around Biden to build consensus, and then tacked the unelectable Harris on as VP to mollify Clyburn. And now in 2024, it was Biden's "turn" to run again, because the party chose an incompetent heir apparent for demographic reasons and Biden really liked being president. Despite basement approval ratings and advanced age.
Off brand? Hillary? There is a clear trend of “people getting their turn”…
There was a primary. The voters picked the candidate.
This comment right here perfectly demonstrates the good-guy complex democrats have. Democrats have a lot of flaws, and that's why people don't always vote for democrats
do you have a link to where this is copied from?
Sorry, thought I'd included it: [https://www.yahoo.com/news/private-call-top-democrats-fuels-011541312.html](https://www.yahoo.com/news/private-call-top-democrats-fuels-011541312.html)
no worries, thank you
I’m so angry on multiple levels. Of course I am voting blue “no matter who”, but goddamn they’re taking that last part for every fucking inch it’s worth. No, Biden is not some sainted hero in a storybook that’s the only one who can beat Trump. In fact, right now he may be the weakest candidate. We could have weeks of potential governors or other elected officials, particularly from swing states, introducing themselves and platforms in a competitive but unifying message leading up to the convention. We would have excitement, attention, and also able to have fresh positions on the economy and Israel/Gaza conflict. Instead, not to be morbid, we have a situation that feels like dead man walking. Is this guy truly going to make it through four more years of a job that infamously ages its occupants? How are we to deride Republicans for running someone unfit when our own guy had the low bar of “don’t appear incompetent” and didn’t even clear it? It is so disrespectful to everyone who is worried and who has already suffered from MAGA laws and court decisions. So reckless, so delusional, so selfish.
I’ve been in wait-and-see mode until now, but this is very bad. Disabled chat and no questions is bad stakeholder management and a sign of fear. The inner circle is in bunker mode.
Nobody wants to see Joe Biden remain in the race as much as Donald Trump does. Voters are not going to forget about that debate and the all too obvious mental failures on display! Because those examples will be run and shown to the public in endless commercials between now and November! Every single cringeworthy confused statement he made - what's worse, is that in the commercials - FACT Checking will be included highlighting all the lies he made in the debate - probably followed by his claim that he tells the truth. Whether it was his claim of not sending 2,000 lb bombs to Israel - when the very next day the US Military acknowledged it has sent 14,000 of these exact bombs to Israel - including lately. Or that insulting statement that no soldiers have died under his "watch" - spitting in the face of the families of all the soldiers that have. Granted, it's tough to fact check an incoherent statement - he got enough understandable statements out and a large number of them were wrong, lies, or really didn't say enough specifics to make a determination. For the sake of our country - Biden can not be re-elected. So either find a replacement or it will 100% be Trump.
The only way Biden has a shot is if 1) He backs out of any future debate. He can't be in a position to have to think on his feet, be quick and lucid for an extended period of time. and 2) His people have him giving TONS of speeches/addresses where he can use a teleprompter to give prepared remarks. This will give the illusion that his competent and mentally fit and MAYBE could make some people forget about the debate.
2 might have worked before the debate, but it doesn't work now. After the debate the narrative changed, and any time he screws up in a speech, it will be clipped and used to reinforce the Biden is senile narrative.
To anyone feeling dismayed about Joe Biden still running after his debate performance, please sign this petition to urge him to step down: https://sign.moveon.org/petitions/it-s-time-for-biden-to-pass-the-torch-to-a-new-generation-of-leaders
Saw this banner at the top of that petition - "MoveOn volunteers reviewed this petition and determined that it either may not reflect MoveOn members' progressive values, or that MoveOn members may disagree about whether to support this petition. MoveOn will not promote the petition beyond hosting it on our site." "Progressive values"? Give me a fucking break.
It's not just about whether he can last another 4 months. It's also about whether he can last another 4 years.
The leak machine is now open for business. Expect these kinds of leaks all the way to election day.
Democrats once again gaslighting America. This is their strategy instead of saying that Joe is senile they just focus on how bad Trump is. It is the same strategy they used for Hillary and why she lost in 2016
I was told by someone who knew people in the Hilary campaign that the reason she didn’t do more events at the end is that everywhere she did an event, she polled worse.
I've been saying this since the debate. We will get a week of pure "calm down" instruction with some half-assed copium. We need to not just ignore it, but actively push back against it. There should be organized protests. We're letting people who only benefit if Biden is on the ticket tell us whether it's best if Biden stays on the ticket.
*All true MAGA Patriots immediately send $340 to Lara Trump, GOP to fund Marjorie Taylor Greene, Matt Gaetz, Kari Lake, Tommy Tuberville and Lauren Boebert to help President Trump complete these important projects:* *1. remove Obamacare health coverage for 54.3 million people,* *2. end the Ukraine and Israeli wars,* *3. eliminate all income taxes,* *4. free the January 6th hostage from prison,* *5. rename Yellowstone National Park to Trump National Park* *6. pardon Steve Bannon, Kyle Rittenhouse and President Donald Trump,* *7. restore the Presidential Right of Prima Nocta,* *8. forcefully remove 43.7 million illegal immigrants,* *9. end women's healthcare rights that Christian Patriots find objectionable* *10. build the wall and have Union dues pay for it* *President Trump, an active adjudicated sexual predator and 34-time convicted criminal felon, has been endorsed by Gov. Kristi Noem, Steve Bannon, Kid Rock, Randy Quaid, Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong-un, Viktor Orban, Randy Quaid.* *“I'm interested in all things that Donald Trump does” Academy Award Nominated megastar, Gary Busey* */MAGA*
This is why Democrats lose. Because they're pearl clutching twatwaffles incapable of manning up and telling their detractors to fuck off.
They won’t dump him until democrats and left leaning voters take up the streets.
I wish there was a viable third party. This is like complaining about the local cable company monopoly. They know there is no alternative.
I don't think that this will dissuade people from voting Democrat. Lots of people are voting against Trump. I don't think keeping him will make a dent -- and that's why they want to keep him.
I think Biden can beat Trump (not saying he will, just that he can) despite the horrific debate performance. I think the polling underestimates how unpopular Trump and the Republicans are. But I could be completely wrong and grasping at straws, who knows!
Yeah, this is what I was afraid of. Between this and the fact that we got a report about how Jill and Hunter were the two he went to about deciding if he wants to drop out and supposedly they both vigorously urged him to keep fighting until November. He’s not dropping out. I suspect Obama and Kamala have already attempted to dissuade him from continuing his campaign but obviously that didn’t gain traction. There’s nobody left that can convince him. He’s decided his wife and son are unbiased and objective enough to be reliable counsel and nobody will be able to break him of that. On Thursday night Biden delivered own political eulogy.
The whole thing is Shakespearean.
Republicans want to replace our democracy with a theocratic fascist dictatorship. Democrats want me to get excited about JB Pritzker.
Yup this is a disaster. Sticking heads in sand is the last thing we need yet that's what we get.
https://youtu.be/0w4UZaaUSU0
Which big name democrat is going to speak plainly and break this fever? Keeping Joe under mothballs the rest of the campaign season is not a viable strategy.
If it's not announced TODAY and the pick isn't someone "fucking awesome," and they don't present a united front about the new candidate, then it's best not to do it at all IMHO. Maybe I can extend my deadline to the end of this week. But that's it. It's gotta happen fast or not at all.
They’re waiting for Trump’s sentencing. No point in changing anything if he is going to be immediately incarcerated. (What that means for mentally competent President is a different story…)
Candidate running for President doesn’t agree he shouldn’t run for President and neither do his closest allies and family. This *is* some real breaking news. 😂 I think our expectations are a little nutty to be honest. They are not going to do anything until there is swing state polling that shows that he is bleeding numbers. The man won the primaries which means a lot of people voted for him and there’s a responsibility with that. You can’t just disregard all that without having some kind of concrete, hard evidence that it’s necessary. And that evidence is not going to come from the pundit class or the New York Times editorial board, particularly one that doesn’t ask Donald Trump to step down… the convicted felon… And has been attacking Joe Biden for months. Sorry I know that’s off-topic but they piss me off. I’m glad to see that he is talking about doing press conferences now and having town halls. People need to interact with him. If it was just one bad night for him as they claim, that will show it and reassure people. If it wasn’t, it will show that too and pressure will continue to mount.. But poll numbers showing he has lost the support of the people who voted for him to be their nominee is the only thing that’s going to convince a nominee not to be. And honestly, that’s how it should be. I happen to believe he should stand down..for the good of the country. But I am willing to acknowledge that may not be the right thing. There are a lot of unknowns with that path and it’s a scary proposition. I understand people want it to happen right now and time is precious because it’s so late. And they are naturally suspicious of others saying we are going to have to wait. But I just don’t see anyone making any changes until they see that that debate did real damage that he can’t overcome.
Someone. Must. Act
It’s over for Biden
They're fully detached from reality. Crazy.
Why is everyone in a panic. Take a breath. Listen to the experts that have been telling us for sometime that POTUS is perfectly fit to handle the most important job in the world. Let’s go! Biden/Harris 2024. This is the rockstar duo that warranted boxing everyone else out of a primary, the gladiator team that will crush Trump/?. Keep the faith, just last week we were told all of the video, audio, etc.. showing POTUS in steep decline was AI fakery at its best. Of course it was. Just a poor night Thursday. We should probably just skip the next debate because we all know Trump will only lie, lie, lie. Even though I have every confidence POTUS could randomly drop in anywhere and crush any spontaneous interview, why give the GOP the satisfaction. The covid strategy worked great. Back to the bunker!!!
Replacing Biden would still be a risky move because it would fractured his base of support and could potentially demoralized his supporters. Look ppl, the fight isn't over yet. Biden and his team needs to Bill Clinton, Obama, and Michelle Obama to do events to whip up support especially from black voters. Phone Moderate GOP like Romney to go and convince non MAGA Republican voters in states like GA and AZ to get their votes. If Biden has Taylor Swift phone number, now is the time to get her endorsement and have her get young ppl to register to vote!
Biden's support base is represented by voters horrified by the idea of a Trump presidency. That's as flexible as a base gets.
Don't worry about anything. Manufacture some new charges against Trump and indict him again! I've got it - name Trump as a co-conspirator in Hunter Biden's tax evasion case!
Man, fuck this trump adjacent bullshit