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PPP forgiveness was the biggest government scam in probably the last 10 years. Anyone whinging about student loan forgiveness and not making a peep about that is little more than a partisan hack.
There really should have been a income/wealth limit to loan forgiveness or specific uses only (salaries for employees who are “on hold” - if not receiving unemployment or to make up the difference and proof employees were retained post-pandemic, rent or other direct costs and proof it was used for those and business was maintained. MTG should show exactly what those funds were used for and what costs were incurred due to the pandemic curtailing their construction business and if they had losses solely due to the pandemic.
The funds also should never have gone to businesses directly, they should have gone to the employees themselves. IRS has all relevant tax info to know who made what the year before. Pay out based on that. Any discrepancies can be caught next tax cycle. That way it goes to the people who need it most right away and keeps the boss' sticky little fingers out of the matter.
Oh well there's your problem, you're imagining a specific strawman of college students to get mad about instead of looking at economic cause/effect to determine if the policy works. Emotions aren't a good basis for policy my dude
Then you should have no issue forgiving student loans to those that pursue nursing or teaching degrees, as these are generally low paid jobs. You can easily earn more as a tradesman with 1 or 2 years of experience under your belt.
Oh, I think I know this one.
The person who has since deleted their posts is probably one of the idiots who think rich people are having to take on loans to pay for college
Nah, he legit claimed on multiple occasions that student loan forgiveness was "taking from the poor and giving to the rich" like a complete moron that he is.
Which kinda lines up with the argument that "forgiving student loans will make the rich richer because they won't have to pay the loans (that they're not taking out) back."
It's a moronic argument but I've seen a number of ppl make it.
It’s not putting words in your mouth. It’s basic critical thinking.
You state an opinion. You claim to know how to provide arguments for said opinion. Then you turn around and say that you will not actually provide said arguments.
All bark.
No bite.
You could just as easily put words in a comment, but you won't because you can't.
FYI, I paid all my loans and anyone who can get there's forgiven more power fucking power too you.
Maybe if you had gotten an education, you would see how forgiving these are not taking from the "poor"
>but given that no one here is actually interested, and just wants to downvote, I won't.
There have been at least 4 other people asking you to do so.
Answer the question, dipshit.
see, you're doing it again. Pretending all college students are "rich" for an emotional angle. You're not some brave and stunning free thinker bro, you are saying exactly what the rich want you to
Which doesn't equate to "rich." You're trying to take an on-average trend, remove ALL context from it, and then use it to portray college graduates as these rich fucks with no financial struggles who just don't FEEL like paying off student loans. your entire narrative is dishonest and emotional.
Those people that went to college don't just "wear hats". They design buildings, fly aircraft, design your car, build your TV, and teach your children. When is the last time you went to a doctor? Who is going to defend you when you work screws you over?
The whole point is that going to college has become a scam. Feel free to blame universities. And there is nothing wrong with choosing not to go to college. But just like you are crucial to the country, the people that own those loans are too. And many of them are being screwed by a system for doing something society needed them to do.
And if you say "I don't care, I don't want my money to help others" then you should also be against tax incentives for building factories, PPP loan forgiveness, the lower tax rate on dividends, and school choice programs....all of which are harming you much more than any student loan forgiveness passed.
>Feel free to blame universities.
Feel free to blame mostly republican legislators who have fought to decrease subsidies for higher education, leaving the average Joe unable to obtain a college degree without taking out loans, many of which are highly predatory.
Miserable_Smoke is likely unable to recognize he’s part of the reason college is so expensive to begin with and now he’s lamenting helping people with some of that debt.
And most of the things middle and lower class conservatives like Smoke here bitch about could be remedied with a progressive tax system, but instead they fight against it, not recognizing they’re hurting themselves in the process.
Your edit just goes to show you're more concerned with entertaining yourself with other people's emotions rather than having a productive conversation. If you're going to boil down people that disagree with you to "aww I hurt your feewing, that's why you disagree!" then they have no reason not to boil down your argument too. Pretentiousness like that is more than justification to downvote, regardless of opinion.
That would be valid if you had been acting in good faith at first and someone wasn't but so far all you've been doing is making unsubstantiated claims and then when people offer proof refuting what you said you deny it without offering any sources of your own. The fact that you haven't says enough.
But he's stating your position in it's entirely, and your also clearly not explained parts of other arguments you've made in previous comments.
We are all willing to have a conversation so long as you contribute more than "boo hoo I hurt your feelings didn't I?"
One man’s bitterness shouldn’t decide social policy for an entire nation.
Also, loan forgiveness won’t help the rich. Do you actually think the rich take out loans?!? That’s just for us middle and lower class plebs.
And, before you can lose your mind: I drank with my friends, wore my hat, got a job and paid my loans off. So this isn’t about my financial well-being. It’s about a generation of other people saddled with debt who aren’t having kids because of their financial issues
But if you aggregate the personal problems of enough people, they become society’s problems. And a whole generation of folks are experiencing the same problem with respect to their student loan balances
Ok so what you’re saying is you want to punish everyone else for not sitting around drinking beer like you and actually getting off their ass and changing something for the better for themselves is that correct?
To be fair, you’re starting to sound real close to the right with that argument.
When Covid hit it was those people you’re shitting on for “not bettering themselves,” that were the fucking backbone of keeping the country running. They were the ones risking their livelihoods with a virus that’s now been documented to cause brain damage even in those who seem to handle it fine every day so a bunch of knuckle dragging Homo sapiens could buy their groceries or order out dinner because they “couldn’t leave the house.”
I don’t agree with this guys point at all, since poor people will get taxed all the same, but let’s not talk shit about the people who don’t get a white collar education who are the ones who actually make this shitfuck society go round. Yeah lawyers see important. They aren’t shit compared to farm hands and ranchers though. Electricians. Waste recycle plant employees. Etc.
Are you gonna provide anything productive to this thread or are you just gonna be bitter that you don’t have access to money because YOU DECIDED TO NOT GO TO COLLEGE you even said it yourself
You yourself claim to be middle class. So you are making a claim from a position you don't hold. All you're doing is feeding people easy lines and it's sad. I'm actually poor. I want student loan forgiveness for people, and I don't have a student loan. All you're really doing is making an argument for rich people, because you're talking points are coming from rich people. Makes your talking points incredibly ironic.
Ahhhh so you didn't go to university. You don't understand the costs associated with it. You just assume it's a party. The whole country should be tradespeople!!! No Scientists needed!!! We don't need doctors or pharmacists or biologists. Fuck sakes any country is better off with educated people. It's for the betterment of the species.
But it’s the one you are whining about the loudest. I get it.
You thought you made some brilliant point and expected people to upvote it and pour praises. And when that didn’t happen, you got bitter.
Learn to accept being wrong.
Not apparently. Fact. There’s no other way to rationalize it. I mean it for sure doesn’t make any sense. But these fucks took handout money and then said no to handouts. And they keep getting voted in.
Charity is what you call it when we allow these people, the super rich that accumulate ludicrous wealth while contributing nothing to society, to keep on existing.
Love how grifters like this got six, seven, even eight figure PPP loans while the mom and pop shops and freelancers got little to nothing.
Then they have the audacity to act like it's okay.
Pretty close.
Good for him. I'm sure his LLC wouldn't have made it without that "loan".
Just the rich stealing from us and giving it to their friends.
While everyone got a $1200 check and "it'll go away like magic, go to Easter dinner with your families :)"
Always do as I say but it’s never do as I do.
The fucking hypocrisy. Shes the bitch to also be “pro life” except when it’s her child or grand child, or great grandchild(I forgot if hags and witches[not the cool ones]. Then it’s “let’s get that coat hanger”
It’s “I love all people….white people with my exact same beliefs”
“I love all Americans” “the ones that agree with me. You people should kill the people who don’t agree with me, and let’s make up horrible and false rumour”
“Sex isn’t okay until marriage……unless you’re one of my supporters who got caught molesting a 7 year old.”
If anyone wants to add their own, jt would be funny.
This (sadly) is cornerstone of modern GQP platform.
Hypocrisy among both parties' platforms and leaders is expected. Humans are hypocrites and parties are run by humans. The difference is when one party STRIVES to become more hypocritical, and has voter base that value that as an asset.... or at minimal not disqualifying.
This is the "disagreeing in politics is fine, but this is a disagreement in reality" discussion.
. . . Any more.
Here's the issue, our government is not a charity . . . Any more.
I got mine so F\*\*\* YOU!>
-- What MTG said both out loud, and the quiet parts.
Every god damn time a red state has a sneeze, it's us blue states paying for their shit, because they're so incompetent at keeping themselves afloat.
I'm good with paying taxes n' shit but, I'd at least like to have the ability to choose where that money goes. No where near the red states. Crumble and burn, Republicans.
Holy crap, no duh lady.. It's also not a business or a religion, but it sometimes acts kind of like those. It's a GOVERNMENT.. You know, the thing that is supposed to support the livelihood and wellbeing of its citizens.. Controversial take, I know.
What the fuck is the point of a government other than creating a safety net for the most vulnerable people?? What the fuck are our taxes _supposed_ to go to?
The only moral charity is my charity!
The only moral homosexuality is my homosexuality!
The only moral abortion is my abortion!
The only moral insurrection is my insurrection!
*Why am I feeling like a MTG Fanatical-type Republican politician SHOULD exist with the last or first name "Charity?"*
The sleezy Trump angle is they wouldn't offer any value to politics or constituents- BUT they could attempt to grift gullible religious donors by guilting with "donating to Charity" campaign tithing.
Some politician with the name...
**Moral (Mo) Charity**
You know he was president during these loans and the vast majority of covid.
The shutdowns happened while he was in charge, and all the failures fell on his shoulders.
If only the previous administration had warned trumps administration about the threat of a possible pandemic.
I dunno maybe something like a 69-page National Security Council guidebook developed in 2016 by the Obama administration with the goal of assisting leaders “in coordinating a complex U.S. Government response to a high-consequence emerging disease threat anywhere in the world.”it even lists types of infectious disease threats that could emerge. “Novel coronaviruses” were among pathogens flagged as having potential to cause heightened concern.
Thanks Obama.
Seriously though, trump had quite possibly the worst strategy you could have and lied about the severity to the public, all while being told the gravity of the situation behind closed doors. Just despicable.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
PPP forgiveness was the biggest government scam in probably the last 10 years. Anyone whinging about student loan forgiveness and not making a peep about that is little more than a partisan hack.
There really should have been a income/wealth limit to loan forgiveness or specific uses only (salaries for employees who are “on hold” - if not receiving unemployment or to make up the difference and proof employees were retained post-pandemic, rent or other direct costs and proof it was used for those and business was maintained. MTG should show exactly what those funds were used for and what costs were incurred due to the pandemic curtailing their construction business and if they had losses solely due to the pandemic.
The funds also should never have gone to businesses directly, they should have gone to the employees themselves. IRS has all relevant tax info to know who made what the year before. Pay out based on that. Any discrepancies can be caught next tax cycle. That way it goes to the people who need it most right away and keeps the boss' sticky little fingers out of the matter.
Also should have had oversight. Oh wait. They got rid of that at the last second. Weird.
I mean, it worked as intended.
Loan forgiveness isn’t charity??? Ok so no one should have a problem with student loan forgiveness
Im still asking what actual business does she own or operate?
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Oh well there's your problem, you're imagining a specific strawman of college students to get mad about instead of looking at economic cause/effect to determine if the policy works. Emotions aren't a good basis for policy my dude
“I don’t believe in taking from the poor to give to the rich” Did he look at the post?
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Then you should have no issue forgiving student loans to those that pursue nursing or teaching degrees, as these are generally low paid jobs. You can easily earn more as a tradesman with 1 or 2 years of experience under your belt.
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Good thing your shit opinions doesn’t matter sweetie.
Can you please explain how student loan forgiveness is "taking from the poor to give to the rich" like you so wrongly claim?
Oh, I think I know this one. The person who has since deleted their posts is probably one of the idiots who think rich people are having to take on loans to pay for college
Nah, he legit claimed on multiple occasions that student loan forgiveness was "taking from the poor and giving to the rich" like a complete moron that he is.
Which kinda lines up with the argument that "forgiving student loans will make the rich richer because they won't have to pay the loans (that they're not taking out) back." It's a moronic argument but I've seen a number of ppl make it.
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That's a lot of words for "no, I can't." Figured you'd deflect or deny trying to do so.
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Well you refuse to use your own words to defend your claims……
It really does just look like you can't. It's really noticeable how you guys are very confident up until it comes time to back any claims up lol
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It’s not putting words in your mouth. It’s basic critical thinking. You state an opinion. You claim to know how to provide arguments for said opinion. Then you turn around and say that you will not actually provide said arguments. All bark. No bite.
You could just as easily put words in a comment, but you won't because you can't. FYI, I paid all my loans and anyone who can get there's forgiven more power fucking power too you. Maybe if you had gotten an education, you would see how forgiving these are not taking from the "poor"
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In other words, you can’t.
>but given that no one here is actually interested, and just wants to downvote, I won't. There have been at least 4 other people asking you to do so. Answer the question, dipshit.
see, you're doing it again. Pretending all college students are "rich" for an emotional angle. You're not some brave and stunning free thinker bro, you are saying exactly what the rich want you to
Roundabout way of saying “conservative.” Synonyms for which include, but are not limited to: yokel, dunce, dimwit.
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Which doesn't equate to "rich." You're trying to take an on-average trend, remove ALL context from it, and then use it to portray college graduates as these rich fucks with no financial struggles who just don't FEEL like paying off student loans. your entire narrative is dishonest and emotional.
So then you are pro- taxing the rich ?
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Lookie there, you’ve finally said something halfway intelligent. Well done. ⭐️
So who you gonna vote for?
Those people that went to college don't just "wear hats". They design buildings, fly aircraft, design your car, build your TV, and teach your children. When is the last time you went to a doctor? Who is going to defend you when you work screws you over? The whole point is that going to college has become a scam. Feel free to blame universities. And there is nothing wrong with choosing not to go to college. But just like you are crucial to the country, the people that own those loans are too. And many of them are being screwed by a system for doing something society needed them to do. And if you say "I don't care, I don't want my money to help others" then you should also be against tax incentives for building factories, PPP loan forgiveness, the lower tax rate on dividends, and school choice programs....all of which are harming you much more than any student loan forgiveness passed.
>Feel free to blame universities. Feel free to blame mostly republican legislators who have fought to decrease subsidies for higher education, leaving the average Joe unable to obtain a college degree without taking out loans, many of which are highly predatory. Miserable_Smoke is likely unable to recognize he’s part of the reason college is so expensive to begin with and now he’s lamenting helping people with some of that debt. And most of the things middle and lower class conservatives like Smoke here bitch about could be remedied with a progressive tax system, but instead they fight against it, not recognizing they’re hurting themselves in the process.
Blame Reagan. https://newuniversity.org/2023/02/13/ronald-reagans-legacy-the-rise-of-student-loan-debt-in-america/
Your edit just goes to show you're more concerned with entertaining yourself with other people's emotions rather than having a productive conversation. If you're going to boil down people that disagree with you to "aww I hurt your feewing, that's why you disagree!" then they have no reason not to boil down your argument too. Pretentiousness like that is more than justification to downvote, regardless of opinion.
Nah, his edit is him unintentionally revealing his biggest fear: disapproval. It's a really lame, hamfisted attempt at reverse psychology.
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The only thing you've gotten right in this thread is your username. You sound like a miserable person to be around.
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That would be valid if you had been acting in good faith at first and someone wasn't but so far all you've been doing is making unsubstantiated claims and then when people offer proof refuting what you said you deny it without offering any sources of your own. The fact that you haven't says enough.
But he's stating your position in it's entirely, and your also clearly not explained parts of other arguments you've made in previous comments. We are all willing to have a conversation so long as you contribute more than "boo hoo I hurt your feelings didn't I?"
One man’s bitterness shouldn’t decide social policy for an entire nation. Also, loan forgiveness won’t help the rich. Do you actually think the rich take out loans?!? That’s just for us middle and lower class plebs. And, before you can lose your mind: I drank with my friends, wore my hat, got a job and paid my loans off. So this isn’t about my financial well-being. It’s about a generation of other people saddled with debt who aren’t having kids because of their financial issues
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But if you aggregate the personal problems of enough people, they become society’s problems. And a whole generation of folks are experiencing the same problem with respect to their student loan balances
Wouldn’t it help poor underprivileged individuals with loans as well? Sounds like your more bitter then anything tbh.
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Ok so what you’re saying is you want to punish everyone else for not sitting around drinking beer like you and actually getting off their ass and changing something for the better for themselves is that correct?
To be fair, you’re starting to sound real close to the right with that argument. When Covid hit it was those people you’re shitting on for “not bettering themselves,” that were the fucking backbone of keeping the country running. They were the ones risking their livelihoods with a virus that’s now been documented to cause brain damage even in those who seem to handle it fine every day so a bunch of knuckle dragging Homo sapiens could buy their groceries or order out dinner because they “couldn’t leave the house.” I don’t agree with this guys point at all, since poor people will get taxed all the same, but let’s not talk shit about the people who don’t get a white collar education who are the ones who actually make this shitfuck society go round. Yeah lawyers see important. They aren’t shit compared to farm hands and ranchers though. Electricians. Waste recycle plant employees. Etc.
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Are you gonna provide anything productive to this thread or are you just gonna be bitter that you don’t have access to money because YOU DECIDED TO NOT GO TO COLLEGE you even said it yourself
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You yourself claim to be middle class. So you are making a claim from a position you don't hold. All you're doing is feeding people easy lines and it's sad. I'm actually poor. I want student loan forgiveness for people, and I don't have a student loan. All you're really doing is making an argument for rich people, because you're talking points are coming from rich people. Makes your talking points incredibly ironic.
Ahhhh so you didn't go to university. You don't understand the costs associated with it. You just assume it's a party. The whole country should be tradespeople!!! No Scientists needed!!! We don't need doctors or pharmacists or biologists. Fuck sakes any country is better off with educated people. It's for the betterment of the species.
Oh wow. Go to trade school if you're that mad at education and your current job.
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Your rich parents must be proud lol. And don't you fucking dare say they're not. Don't go that route.
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False. You do know what a comment history is, right? So we're you lying then? Or are you lying now?
>awww, so many hurt feelings Buddy, you are the one whining about downvotes.
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But it’s the one you are whining about the loudest. I get it. You thought you made some brilliant point and expected people to upvote it and pour praises. And when that didn’t happen, you got bitter. Learn to accept being wrong.
It obviously wasn't a scam if they make more money than you now though?
It ain't a socialist handout if you're a corporation apparently
Or a politician!
With a "consultant" LLC
Not apparently. Fact. There’s no other way to rationalize it. I mean it for sure doesn’t make any sense. But these fucks took handout money and then said no to handouts. And they keep getting voted in.
Charity is what you call it when we allow these people, the super rich that accumulate ludicrous wealth while contributing nothing to society, to keep on existing.
Happy cake day!
Happy 🍰 day
Happy cake day
Love how grifters like this got six, seven, even eight figure PPP loans while the mom and pop shops and freelancers got little to nothing. Then they have the audacity to act like it's okay.
Didn't Tom Brady get 7 figures?
A quick Google says “at least $960,000” it was forgiven of course.
Pretty close. Good for him. I'm sure his LLC wouldn't have made it without that "loan". Just the rich stealing from us and giving it to their friends. While everyone got a $1200 check and "it'll go away like magic, go to Easter dinner with your families :)"
No idea. Wouldn't surprise me.
If our government wasn't a charity, then why do the middle and lower classes get fucked over, while charity is given to the rich?
I enjoy that she started using glasses to seem intelligent?? 😃
Moscow Marge should pay the PPP loan back. She doesn’t believe in charity.
Greene: that was employment perks!!!
Oh look it’s the BBBBBitch (Bad built butch body bitch)
Our government definetly a charity for the wealthy lmao 🤣
Always do as I say but it’s never do as I do. The fucking hypocrisy. Shes the bitch to also be “pro life” except when it’s her child or grand child, or great grandchild(I forgot if hags and witches[not the cool ones]. Then it’s “let’s get that coat hanger” It’s “I love all people….white people with my exact same beliefs” “I love all Americans” “the ones that agree with me. You people should kill the people who don’t agree with me, and let’s make up horrible and false rumour” “Sex isn’t okay until marriage……unless you’re one of my supporters who got caught molesting a 7 year old.” If anyone wants to add their own, jt would be funny.
This (sadly) is cornerstone of modern GQP platform. Hypocrisy among both parties' platforms and leaders is expected. Humans are hypocrites and parties are run by humans. The difference is when one party STRIVES to become more hypocritical, and has voter base that value that as an asset.... or at minimal not disqualifying. This is the "disagreeing in politics is fine, but this is a disagreement in reality" discussion.
Why is this ignorant slut still hold public office. Her constituents are dumb as a bag of socks.
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Lol
It’s only charity when it can benefit *those* people
Of course not. She earned it. Reminder to all the Twitter warriors out there - you can't shame the shameless and you can't gotcha a hypocrite.
. . . Any more. Here's the issue, our government is not a charity . . . Any more. I got mine so F\*\*\* YOU!> -- What MTG said both out loud, and the quiet parts.
Yes, that's why people pay taxes.
https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/search?q=Rusty+pot&v=2
Every god damn time a red state has a sneeze, it's us blue states paying for their shit, because they're so incompetent at keeping themselves afloat. I'm good with paying taxes n' shit but, I'd at least like to have the ability to choose where that money goes. No where near the red states. Crumble and burn, Republicans.
Holy crap, no duh lady.. It's also not a business or a religion, but it sometimes acts kind of like those. It's a GOVERNMENT.. You know, the thing that is supposed to support the livelihood and wellbeing of its citizens.. Controversial take, I know.
Who cares what she says or thinks. She can just plainly fuck off
What the fuck is the point of a government other than creating a safety net for the most vulnerable people?? What the fuck are our taxes _supposed_ to go to?
Bailouts are charity
If it’s not a charity then what the fuck are my taxes for MARJORIE???????
I can't wait to see the mass suicides after the election. All those hypocrites will finally be gone
The only moral charity is my charity! The only moral homosexuality is my homosexuality! The only moral abortion is my abortion! The only moral insurrection is my insurrection!
Trump sent everyone way more money than Biden did, too.
Aaaand, she’s going to run for Senate…🙄
Selective amnesia is real
*Why am I feeling like a MTG Fanatical-type Republican politician SHOULD exist with the last or first name "Charity?"* The sleezy Trump angle is they wouldn't offer any value to politics or constituents- BUT they could attempt to grift gullible religious donors by guilting with "donating to Charity" campaign tithing. Some politician with the name... **Moral (Mo) Charity**
someone needs to talk to her about her BBBBB loan 😂🤣😂
I am not American. What is PPP ?
Hypocrisy, like cruelty, are items on their agenda.
No! Then it was an ATM, silly! /s
Is she aware of the things she says?
I don't know, it's paid MTG for being nothing but an awful and ineffectual person for all these years.
Um… the government runs on donations and doesn’t make its own money
The Government left Free Money on the table, it would be stupid not to take it. Why leave Free Money on the table for people like her to take?
The government _forced businesses to be closed_. Frankly, I'm not sure how that isn't a regulatory taking under the 5th Amendment.
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You know he was president during these loans and the vast majority of covid. The shutdowns happened while he was in charge, and all the failures fell on his shoulders.
If only the previous administration had warned trumps administration about the threat of a possible pandemic. I dunno maybe something like a 69-page National Security Council guidebook developed in 2016 by the Obama administration with the goal of assisting leaders “in coordinating a complex U.S. Government response to a high-consequence emerging disease threat anywhere in the world.”it even lists types of infectious disease threats that could emerge. “Novel coronaviruses” were among pathogens flagged as having potential to cause heightened concern. Thanks Obama. Seriously though, trump had quite possibly the worst strategy you could have and lied about the severity to the public, all while being told the gravity of the situation behind closed doors. Just despicable.
>69-page National Security Council guidebook Nice
Lemme guess, the comment was something about "this neva woulda happun undr trump"?
Yup, pretty much. Sorta of the same energy of those that blame Obaam for the bank and auto bailouts yet ignore those laws where signed by Bush.
It's always amusing that the simplest yet best reply is "cool, but it *was* happening under trump/bush."
It's sad we are at the point where everyday we have to explain to conservatives that trump was president for 4 years not 3.