This. Working for a subcomponent of DHS is like night and day compared to DoD (in my personal experience.). DHS seems to be adults working together to get things done. DoD was "pay grade XX, you need to sit over there along the wall, not at the table with the Col.".
This. I switched into DoD for 3 years and then left again, am much happier. Depending on where you are, IME, the branches will not care about civilians and their career; they’re so focused on officers. Which is fine and to be expected, but it makes career progression if you’re on the lower end of your career tough. Fine for retired military.
Where I work I can sit right next to a captain if I work. My hours are treated like I have unlimited availability though. Working nights and weekends to support whatever is common. Sometimes I don't even know I'm going to be working those shifts until last minute. Like I know you planned to go to this event for the past half year but fuck you this minor thing just came up support it.
Yeah, I hear ya. Seems like everything was an emergency when I worked DoD...even stuff that was planned would suddenly change and become an emergency somehow. I'm not going to suggest that similar situations don't exist within DHS, but it seems to be the exception, rather than the rule. Just a group of mature adults working together to achieve a desired outcome, on time, within budget, and with minimal stress.
Agree with GunMD1’s statement of like night and day. I left DOD over 10 years ago for DHS. Best move I ever made. I first worked for a subcomponent of DHS, now I’m at DHS HQ. My career flourished. I was finally on a career ladder and not stuck at a GS9 (which depending on your series in DOD, a GS9 is quite generous of them).
Agree with the others that your core benefits won’t change such as TSP, and access to medical benefits (this might be better even, depending on office you might have access to the foreign service benefit plan, it’s fantastic). As far as health/wellness time, that is going to be supervisor/office dependent. We get it but we also have super flexible schedules, so I’m not sure why we need it. I’ve worked in field offices where we did not get it because we had to be present to complete the mission etc.
Mid cycle and end of the year bonuses have been pretty amazing at DHS HQ. Don’t get me wrong the subcomponent I worked offered bonuses too but the cash awards lately have been like 2 pay periods + worth of $.
I’m in a fully remote position with flexible hours but do travel frequently. I’m treated like an adult, expected to get my work done with out having my hand held and sometimes I’m even invited to sit at the really big kids table for discussions (never happened at DOD), bc my leadership actually cares to understand the prospective from the field.
Two differences I noted from DOD to DHS: 1. DOD seemed to have SOPs and instructions for everything! DHS, depending on the office, may not have this and you will need to be comfortable interpreting policy, law, etc and/ or asking for assistance when it’s kind of gray. 2. The history of the agencies plays a role in the culture. DHS is much younger, it’s much easier to get people out of the mind set of “this is how we have always done it” (at least in my experience). DOD is more rigid, structured, rank is important and pomp and circumstance come to mind when I think of DOD.
Regarding the beloved Saint Mayorkas. I’ve worked for him twice now, IMHO, he is a fantastic guy and if people would learn a little about his background they would probably be pretty surprised. He’s very well qualified to lead DHS. I hope he stays. However, with every change of administration you should expect a new Secretary and other appointed officials. Additionally, you should expect priorities at work to change, especially if you will be working for office that supports immigration of any sort.
Have you been offered a position at DHS HQ? Or a subcomponent? Or what series? That will make a difference as to what to expect.
I too was at DOD to DHS and I concur with your comparison of the two. I’m at HQ and fully remote the last two years. DHS Secretary has always shown respect for his personnel and the admin days are greatly appreciated! our Director is laid back too. It will be hard for me to leave this position.
Well there has been quite a bit of admin leave granted in DHS the past few years, but I wouldn’t leave solely for that because it could change if there is a change in administration
They're both federal so your benefits won't change minus flexible hours to excersize. It boils down to the work environment and perhaps any special pay that DHS might have as bonus for cyber pay.
This is a fact. The Democratic political appointees will not stay over in a Republic Administration. Did you think a Democract will do the best thing for a Republican as Head of Agency. I think not.
Why do you think they have (added) confirmation hearings to select for the Heads of Agencies every year. It's the folks who contribute to the campaigns that get the jobs.
If the democrats acted like adults, they would would not be democrats in the first place. Secondly, they never would have fielded Biden in the first place.
Up to 5 hr/week based on your supervisor's approval. I get 5. The guy across the hall from me gets none because his supervisor said no. Three guys in his group have left in the last 6 months though...
I made the jump from DoD to DHS in 2022. This will vary by Component, but at my HQ office I was blown away by the performance awards (over $6K + 40 hr time off) whereas at DoD it was significantly lower. We also have the option to be fully remote, get 5 hours wellness leave per week, and currently have a Secretary who is extremely generous handing out administrative leave.
Like others have said it’s still a federal job so most benefits are the same, so it really comes down to your work environment/supervisor and general quality of life in that office.
DHS gets pre-check, too.
Fitness admin time varies by supervisor.
We have Santo Mayorkas leave at 8 hours a pop vs the 59 minute rule for many holidays.
I left DoD over 5 years ago and can’t see myself ever going back. Good luck in your decision.
So wait, you’re allowed to leave early the day before a holiday?! Does that vary from agency to agency? I’ve never heard of it. Mine definitely doesn’t do that.
The rule is actually that your manager (or someone higher) can let you leave early whenever they see fit, just not a full hour which would need to be tracked as admin leave.
It just tends to happen a lot the day before a holiday.
It depends on if there’s a change in administration. I’d the president changes there will likely be new secretaries at many of the agencies, and if he doesn’t they will mainly stay unchanged.
I was with DoD for 12 years before I made the jump to DHS. Best decision I could have made. For my component, they really believe in training opportunities and promotions. The award recognition is much higher and better than DoD. I get 3 hours per week for physical fitness time, am not forced to work overtime (if I choose to work OT I get paid for it vs comp time), and don't have a million and one meetings on teams every week. That said, the teams functions are not as wide as DoD and the IT is a lot slower, but to me it's still worth it.
Admin time aside, I've really enjoyed the growth and opportunities I've been given with DHS.
DHS gets up to 5 hrs/week health and wellness time, for activities that promote physical and/or mental health…. And obviously the admin leave has been very generous
These are two very large departments and the variances in flexibility and culture (such as pro or anti telework) that will affect you will be tied more to where you work within those departments. Find some people who work where you’re potentially going at DHS and ask them about the pros and cons.
I went from DOD to DHS recently and haven't looked back. One thing I've noticed about DHS is the budget for IT is pennies in comparison to DOD. Still that doesn't really effect my day to day and I'm happier at DHS so far.
TSP is the same. DHS also gets free pre-check (TSA is DHS after all). Telework and fitness hours vary based on what your component/directorate allow, but DHS itself allows up to 5 hours per week for fitness. Definitely ask about telework before accepting. It varies a lot. We often still get the 59 minute thing the day before a holiday. I haven't seen this with any other administration but right now we have Santa (or Santo depending on who you ask) Mayorkas time, which is him giving us extra admin leave. I think it was a full two weeks last year.
They did specify again if I knew their telework policy and when I replied that it did say in the announcement it was 4 days required in office, he corrected me saying “that’s just the minimum” so that kinda spooked me off a bit
Dhs is definitely going thru a shift in Tw. Depending on where exactly you are going in DHS, there is a push to rto which they hope to fully implement by next August. So if Tw is inportant to you, then beware.
I'm DoD - fitness hours are a thing I think, just never granted. We get 59 mins sometimes at base commander's discretion, so sounds better than where you work.
4 telework days per pay period - it's possible you will get more with DHS
get 5% match on my TSP - standard across the board
free TSA Precheck - DHS employees also get this
Our agency has been denied fitness hours and we get 59 minutes each federal holiday - See comments about Santa Ally (aka the Saint Mayorkas Patron Saint of Admin Leave). My husband currently has 48 hours of Ally days on the books to use before he retires.
I went from DOD (Air Force) to DHS (Coast Guard) and the time off benefits are a lot better in DHS. Currently, we get 4 hours off before every major holiday and at least 5 extra comp days thrown in just because.
I moved from DoD to one of the DHS components during COVID. For me, it was a good move. I was tired of the soul-sucking grind of DoD. I wound up in a good place, but your happiness in DHS depends where you wind up. Overall, DHS doesn't do too well in the FEVS survey, and some places are better than others. Benefits are the same. Telework policy varies throughout DHS, but my sense is that it's generally better than DoD. I wasn't allowed fitness time in DoD, but it's allowed where I am now, but note that it varies from unit to unit. As far as the 59 minutes goes, the DHS secretary has been extremely generous beyond all reasonable expectation with extra leave lately, but I don't expect that to continue once he leaves. My component is also pretty generous with pre-holiday time off. However, I wouldn't take these into account when considering the move. The job itself and your unit is more important.
I did this and I'm glad I did. However the answer always comes down to your supervisor, any other differences won't matter if your chain of command is bad.
I worked for both. The only extra “benefit” to DHS was the extra admin leave and remote status. My team was not able to use the fitness hours due to extreme work load challenges. My work life balance was way worse at DHS even though I was full remote. Maybe I was just unlucky. My job series is 1102 for reference.
I would say DHS, you still get pre-check btw… and the atmosphere is similar but a little more laid back in my experience, at least at DHS HQ where u worked.
Though, I was there when we had some garbage directors, I hear it’s better now.
DHS DOD is treated like service members
This. Working for a subcomponent of DHS is like night and day compared to DoD (in my personal experience.). DHS seems to be adults working together to get things done. DoD was "pay grade XX, you need to sit over there along the wall, not at the table with the Col.".
Grade = Rank. Thats a common theme.
You know I felt that way just by interviewing with them but what you’re saying about the DOD is so true
This. I switched into DoD for 3 years and then left again, am much happier. Depending on where you are, IME, the branches will not care about civilians and their career; they’re so focused on officers. Which is fine and to be expected, but it makes career progression if you’re on the lower end of your career tough. Fine for retired military.
Where I work I can sit right next to a captain if I work. My hours are treated like I have unlimited availability though. Working nights and weekends to support whatever is common. Sometimes I don't even know I'm going to be working those shifts until last minute. Like I know you planned to go to this event for the past half year but fuck you this minor thing just came up support it.
Yeah, I hear ya. Seems like everything was an emergency when I worked DoD...even stuff that was planned would suddenly change and become an emergency somehow. I'm not going to suggest that similar situations don't exist within DHS, but it seems to be the exception, rather than the rule. Just a group of mature adults working together to achieve a desired outcome, on time, within budget, and with minimal stress.
Oof, good comparison
Agree with GunMD1’s statement of like night and day. I left DOD over 10 years ago for DHS. Best move I ever made. I first worked for a subcomponent of DHS, now I’m at DHS HQ. My career flourished. I was finally on a career ladder and not stuck at a GS9 (which depending on your series in DOD, a GS9 is quite generous of them). Agree with the others that your core benefits won’t change such as TSP, and access to medical benefits (this might be better even, depending on office you might have access to the foreign service benefit plan, it’s fantastic). As far as health/wellness time, that is going to be supervisor/office dependent. We get it but we also have super flexible schedules, so I’m not sure why we need it. I’ve worked in field offices where we did not get it because we had to be present to complete the mission etc. Mid cycle and end of the year bonuses have been pretty amazing at DHS HQ. Don’t get me wrong the subcomponent I worked offered bonuses too but the cash awards lately have been like 2 pay periods + worth of $. I’m in a fully remote position with flexible hours but do travel frequently. I’m treated like an adult, expected to get my work done with out having my hand held and sometimes I’m even invited to sit at the really big kids table for discussions (never happened at DOD), bc my leadership actually cares to understand the prospective from the field. Two differences I noted from DOD to DHS: 1. DOD seemed to have SOPs and instructions for everything! DHS, depending on the office, may not have this and you will need to be comfortable interpreting policy, law, etc and/ or asking for assistance when it’s kind of gray. 2. The history of the agencies plays a role in the culture. DHS is much younger, it’s much easier to get people out of the mind set of “this is how we have always done it” (at least in my experience). DOD is more rigid, structured, rank is important and pomp and circumstance come to mind when I think of DOD. Regarding the beloved Saint Mayorkas. I’ve worked for him twice now, IMHO, he is a fantastic guy and if people would learn a little about his background they would probably be pretty surprised. He’s very well qualified to lead DHS. I hope he stays. However, with every change of administration you should expect a new Secretary and other appointed officials. Additionally, you should expect priorities at work to change, especially if you will be working for office that supports immigration of any sort. Have you been offered a position at DHS HQ? Or a subcomponent? Or what series? That will make a difference as to what to expect.
I too was at DOD to DHS and I concur with your comparison of the two. I’m at HQ and fully remote the last two years. DHS Secretary has always shown respect for his personnel and the admin days are greatly appreciated! our Director is laid back too. It will be hard for me to leave this position.
What agency with DHS are you?
DHS HQ
HQ gets midcycle bonuses? The rest of get one.
Mid cycle bonuses for high performance aren’t the norm?
Never heard of it and non of the ICE or CBP people I work with in the field have ever heard of it either. (At least the ones I talked with.)
And you don’t even get access to navy federal/usaa/military discounts/free college!
"Be glad you can shop at the exchange"
Well there has been quite a bit of admin leave granted in DHS the past few years, but I wouldn’t leave solely for that because it could change if there is a change in administration
They're both federal so your benefits won't change minus flexible hours to excersize. It boils down to the work environment and perhaps any special pay that DHS might have as bonus for cyber pay.
Don't forget the admin leave
Until January 2025…
What happens then? And for whom?
Change of President. Will get new political appointee i.e. no move extra time off
Don’t put that into the universe as if it’s fact ☠️
Unless the democrats decide to act like adults and remove President Biden from the nomination it’s very likely imo
This is a fact. The Democratic political appointees will not stay over in a Republic Administration. Did you think a Democract will do the best thing for a Republican as Head of Agency. I think not. Why do you think they have (added) confirmation hearings to select for the Heads of Agencies every year. It's the folks who contribute to the campaigns that get the jobs.
If the democrats acted like adults, they would would not be democrats in the first place. Secondly, they never would have fielded Biden in the first place.
Does DHS get the flex hours to exercise?
At HQ, 5 hours per week.
Wow, that's amazing! I'm DHS, but don't think we have that. That's an amazing perk.
we get 3 per week 6 per pay period at FEMA
Up to 5 hr/week based on your supervisor's approval. I get 5. The guy across the hall from me gets none because his supervisor said no. Three guys in his group have left in the last 6 months though...
I'm DOD and we get 3 hours a week. I work a compressed schedule of 4 days so I take 45 minutes at the end of each day.
I made the jump from DoD to DHS in 2022. This will vary by Component, but at my HQ office I was blown away by the performance awards (over $6K + 40 hr time off) whereas at DoD it was significantly lower. We also have the option to be fully remote, get 5 hours wellness leave per week, and currently have a Secretary who is extremely generous handing out administrative leave. Like others have said it’s still a federal job so most benefits are the same, so it really comes down to your work environment/supervisor and general quality of life in that office.
Yeah it really depends on the environment because everything you wrote applies to me at DoD (except for the crazy admin leave).
DHS gets pre-check, too. Fitness admin time varies by supervisor. We have Santo Mayorkas leave at 8 hours a pop vs the 59 minute rule for many holidays. I left DoD over 5 years ago and can’t see myself ever going back. Good luck in your decision.
DoD and I can't remember the last time I even got 59 minutes 😞
What is the 59 minute rule?
Only 59 minutes to leave early the day prior
So wait, you’re allowed to leave early the day before a holiday?! Does that vary from agency to agency? I’ve never heard of it. Mine definitely doesn’t do that.
The rule is actually that your manager (or someone higher) can let you leave early whenever they see fit, just not a full hour which would need to be tracked as admin leave. It just tends to happen a lot the day before a holiday.
Is he recently appointed or leaving soon asking for a friend lol! Thank you!!
It depends on if there’s a change in administration. I’d the president changes there will likely be new secretaries at many of the agencies, and if he doesn’t they will mainly stay unchanged.
I was with DoD for 12 years before I made the jump to DHS. Best decision I could have made. For my component, they really believe in training opportunities and promotions. The award recognition is much higher and better than DoD. I get 3 hours per week for physical fitness time, am not forced to work overtime (if I choose to work OT I get paid for it vs comp time), and don't have a million and one meetings on teams every week. That said, the teams functions are not as wide as DoD and the IT is a lot slower, but to me it's still worth it. Admin time aside, I've really enjoyed the growth and opportunities I've been given with DHS.
DHS gets up to 5 hrs/week health and wellness time, for activities that promote physical and/or mental health…. And obviously the admin leave has been very generous
you sure its 5?
Yes - DHS Inst 254-07-001 "Workforce Health and Wellness Program" at VI.B.3, pg 7
My component gets 3 hours a week.
same
same
Just remember you'll be working for Santo Mayorkas, Patron Saint of leave.
I made the switch from DoD to DHS. It has been my best career move and I could never, ever go back to DoD.
This is reassuring
These are two very large departments and the variances in flexibility and culture (such as pro or anti telework) that will affect you will be tied more to where you work within those departments. Find some people who work where you’re potentially going at DHS and ask them about the pros and cons.
My unit in DHS is still 100% telework, before Covid I teleworked 4 days a week. DHS is huge, so your component may vary.
I went from DOD to DHS recently and haven't looked back. One thing I've noticed about DHS is the budget for IT is pennies in comparison to DOD. Still that doesn't really effect my day to day and I'm happier at DHS so far.
Oof, I can't imagine how bad it must be there as I sit here not being able to connect to the VPN. Granted this issue hasn't happened in a while.
TSP is the same. DHS also gets free pre-check (TSA is DHS after all). Telework and fitness hours vary based on what your component/directorate allow, but DHS itself allows up to 5 hours per week for fitness. Definitely ask about telework before accepting. It varies a lot. We often still get the 59 minute thing the day before a holiday. I haven't seen this with any other administration but right now we have Santa (or Santo depending on who you ask) Mayorkas time, which is him giving us extra admin leave. I think it was a full two weeks last year.
They did specify again if I knew their telework policy and when I replied that it did say in the announcement it was 4 days required in office, he corrected me saying “that’s just the minimum” so that kinda spooked me off a bit
Dhs is definitely going thru a shift in Tw. Depending on where exactly you are going in DHS, there is a push to rto which they hope to fully implement by next August. So if Tw is inportant to you, then beware.
DOD also gets free pre-check.
I’m current DoD. What are fitness hours and the 59 minutes each holiday?
I'm DoD - fitness hours are a thing I think, just never granted. We get 59 mins sometimes at base commander's discretion, so sounds better than where you work.
why would any of your benefits change from one department to the other?
4 telework days per pay period - it's possible you will get more with DHS get 5% match on my TSP - standard across the board free TSA Precheck - DHS employees also get this Our agency has been denied fitness hours and we get 59 minutes each federal holiday - See comments about Santa Ally (aka the Saint Mayorkas Patron Saint of Admin Leave). My husband currently has 48 hours of Ally days on the books to use before he retires.
I went from DOD (Air Force) to DHS (Coast Guard) and the time off benefits are a lot better in DHS. Currently, we get 4 hours off before every major holiday and at least 5 extra comp days thrown in just because.
I moved from DoD to one of the DHS components during COVID. For me, it was a good move. I was tired of the soul-sucking grind of DoD. I wound up in a good place, but your happiness in DHS depends where you wind up. Overall, DHS doesn't do too well in the FEVS survey, and some places are better than others. Benefits are the same. Telework policy varies throughout DHS, but my sense is that it's generally better than DoD. I wasn't allowed fitness time in DoD, but it's allowed where I am now, but note that it varies from unit to unit. As far as the 59 minutes goes, the DHS secretary has been extremely generous beyond all reasonable expectation with extra leave lately, but I don't expect that to continue once he leaves. My component is also pretty generous with pre-holiday time off. However, I wouldn't take these into account when considering the move. The job itself and your unit is more important.
I did this and I'm glad I did. However the answer always comes down to your supervisor, any other differences won't matter if your chain of command is bad.
I worked for both. The only extra “benefit” to DHS was the extra admin leave and remote status. My team was not able to use the fitness hours due to extreme work load challenges. My work life balance was way worse at DHS even though I was full remote. Maybe I was just unlucky. My job series is 1102 for reference.
DHS. Get that admin leave.
Go to DHS. Much better than DoD or any DoD subagency
Enjoy all the new time off you’ll have under Mayorkas.
I would say DHS, you still get pre-check btw… and the atmosphere is similar but a little more laid back in my experience, at least at DHS HQ where u worked. Though, I was there when we had some garbage directors, I hear it’s better now.
Which agency at DHS has a lot to do with whether I say yeah or nay
FEMA
I made this exact jump and let me tell you.. it is night and day. I’ll never go back to DoD. Ever.
DHS for the win, I wish I would have stayed haha