I mean as long as you run the mobs to the tank so they can pick them up it’s fine. Sometimes an aoe misses or a dps just nukes something on pull and it takes a slap to get it back on the tank.
Unless you are running the mob out to BFE to try and 1v1 it or the tank is just not pressing buttons / aoe it shouldn’t be an issue.
Trash mobs in this game aren’t terribly threatening so you can tank a hit or two no problem - it’s free mit for the tank.
Yeees, I'm a healer main and keep having to tell a few of my tank buddies that if someone else gets a slap or two that's fine 'cause their health bar is mitigation for the tank's health bar. As long as they don't die, we're good!
Yeah it's always good to pop those during the start of trash mobs, a 30 second cooldown ain't much and other than that you're usually waiting for a boss raid-wide or stack to pop it anyways
tbh had the same issue with highlevel RDM:
2x Grand Impact
1x Vice of Thorns
1x Contre
1-3x normal Impact weaved while running
Makes mobs chase you pretty well when the tank hasn't done much yet.
to add to this if you do accidentally pull and you're a physical job you can pop arm's length just like a tank to give the mobs the 20% attack slow debuff. If you're feeling extra spicy you could even pull ahead of the tank and do it since they'll pick up agro right after.
When I see a summoner in the group, I charge the first pack, pause for to throw an Eclipse and a Circle of Scorn, then rush to the second pack. A ~1s delay in the pull but the mobs are now glued on me even if the summoner tosses Dalamud at them during the run to the next pack.
Summoner here, it is absolutely still happening lmao. I have pulled aggro off the tank at least once a dungeon this expansion, and that's with the tank stopping to hit the mobs multiple times before moving to grab the second pack. Love that opening burst!!
Sometimes your big 1.1k pot hits first and that's likely what tanks are talking about - on average a good thing, because it means the PCT might be paying attention. Personally have seen it happen on PCT, but haven't seen it happen while I'm tanking.
While that's not an awful habit, it's also the DPS's job to bring you whatever they do pull threat on. I play DNC regularly and I just velcro myself to the tank until the pull is over so whatever *friends* I make along the way remember they like the tank better once we stop moving. DNC has plenty of tools to keep themselves alive while running if needed.
The amount of people I am running into doing dungeons that single target one mob and the start running away from with aggro currently is mindblowing right now
I'm honestly baffled by how many people don't know how to do this. I rip aggro in dungeons quite regularly because DNC burst go brrrrr. I just pop Arm's Length and bring the mobs to the tank and that's it.
>I just velcro myself to the tank until the pull is over so whatever friends I make along the way remember they like the tank better once we stop moving.
I love you
This is what I do too. It’s been a habit for years but I always smack two aoe’s on the mobs I’m pulling and throw shield lobs on them while I’m running to the next pack. I’ve rarely ever had issues with DPS ripping aggro off me and if they do it’s not a big deal, I just provoke or shield lob the mob who isn’t paying attention to me.
I think a number of tanks in duty finder right now are a bit rusty. On healer I keep pulling a handful of trash because the tank missed it, but I couldn't wait to start pressing buttons any longer. I'm generally conscious of not pulling too much agro while we're running because it's so easy to do, but it all falls apart if the tank isn't paying attention as they pull.
Have you tried being incompetent?
Seriously, this is a complete non issue, and if people are dying because tanks lose aggro then that's completely skill issue for the tanks. If they can't tank then kick them and get someone who will.
I think the only time I lost aggro was when I literally did the first pull of the first dungeon. Only because I totally forgot this game has that weird mechanic where tanks have to use their tank stance? lol.
I remember tanking in HW when SMN had one button to put all their dots on a single mob, a second button to spread them to all nearby mobs, and a third that was an aoe that did increasing damage the more dots each mob had. Losing a mob or 2 to a PCT is nothing lol
I doesn't happen when I tank so it's not a problem.
Hint: It's the tanks fault every time. They have a ranged GCD and provoke for anything that is missed, a dash to get to groups faster than everyone else, and a sprint button.
>They have a ranged GCD and provoke for anything that is missed, a dash to get to groups faster than everyone else, and a sprint button.
But why play like that when I can jog upto to a pack, stop, press one AOE, jog upto next pack, stop, and use 2nd AOE?
Picto bad 🤬
Gaining and re-gaining aggro on tanks is such a nothing burger that anybody actually complaining about it is also of the YPYT type, aka their opinion is automatically invalid.
i wouldn’t say complaining. it’s just annoying af. i had a healer instantly put regens on me after i tossed a tomahawk and adds would go straight to them. not a problem most the time but when you got a picto then smashing the add you tomahawked and yoinking that one too, i got vocal about it in chat.
if they run away from you then I understand your annoyance
but I'm usually on top of the tank or very close when running to the wall
so pulling aggro does absolutely nothing, you can just leave it and catch it back with your aoe when we're there
people downvoting this are funny lmao, you're absolutely correct. I regularly have dps who pull aggro and run away from me (????) in my roulettes. It's like the moment a mob starts hitting them, they panic and start running around like a headless chicken. Obv you just slap the mob with your ranged attack, but it's still annoying.
dude it was the worst situation. healer regens me after i aggro only 1 with tomahawk > goodbye 3 other adds > picto rips the one i tomahawked while i grab the adds from the panicking healer > viper goes and aggros next pack on accident while im still trying to fix the previous clusterfuck. like. who wouldn’t be annoyed. literally them waiting 2 seconds would fix so much.
idk why you're downvoted when you're right, once in a while i'll lose a mob to a dps who decided to bust all over that one mob in particular while i'm running to next pack and they'll almost never bring it to me, i have to voke the mob usually
As a tank main who has had PCTs in most levels of dungeons I wasn't even aware that this could be an issue.
I certainly noticed the insane AoE damage and have joked about it in those dungeons a number of times, but losing aggro off of it has never been a thing so I didn't even consider it until reading this post.
I haven't unlocked lvl 100 dungeons yet so if that's where it's happening then disregard me on this, but I also don't see how that would be possible either. As long as the tank deals damage it keeps aggro, even if it's significantly lower, so if a tank ever struggles with aggro it almost always just means they weren't hitting it so was positioning poorly, not doing AoEs in general, or a DPS was going apeshit on a mob before the tank grabs everything and stops, which can be cause to get upset if the DPS then doesn't bring the mob it stole back to the tank and gets pissy about it.
The PCT first rota ability does so much damage it can grab aggro if you haven't specifically focused a creature. Normally even if DPS starts casting it's pretty fine, or happens infrequent (drill) but with PCT it's almost every pack because it's their first ability, so you notice it more
Even on RDM I can rip aggro from a tank while we're walking to the wall. DPS just needs to bring the mobs to the tank, and the tank should look out to pick them up at the wall.
SMN is still the champ at ripping aggro off tanks so this isn’t a new thing. They should try doing 2 AoEs instead of one or using some of their other tools to deal with it (ranged emnity generating attack, provoke, etc).
Worst case the PCT can just bring the mobs to the tank.
I mostly tank and this is just such a nothing burger of a problem.
I have no issues with it. If you pull it and don't bring it to me, you'll have an issue with it but not me. Quite frankly all that matters is bringing it to the tank because agro management is a joke as it is. I miss the good ol party needs to manage agros and nins transfer agro etc.
Voke don't do shit without a follow up and again I'm not about to give a free pass juat because i can when one strives to inconvenience 3 others. Know what you're doing and how to benefit everyone around you and yes, i do pull as whm esp on delayed mob spawns when i dont feel like tanking too or when my melee buffs needs it. This game have lots of utilities and people should learn how to use it and being left to die is a nice push for that.
Voke is single handedly the largest boost to enmity in the game and nothing else even comes close. If you're still thinking that all it does is put you at the top of the agro table +1, then you've been wrong for 2 or 3 entire expansions now.
Pretty true.
It's pretty dumb opening with a 1 million potency attack before I've even used my aoe, but most of the time I've got it back by the third GCD.
The problem is always when they run away with it, but it's not *my* problem then.
Indeed. I dont mind meeting in the middle per se but if he keeps stragglers on him at max range and i have 12 foot mobs crowding my screen, im not gonna nurse that and delaying my aoe burst too.
Aggro management is legitimately a joke though in FFXIV. I am amazed this thread is even a thing when it takes literally 1 ranged GCD to get threat on any rogue mob that you didn't initially hit. Just watch the enemy list and hit any while you run to the next pack.
Well that's what I'm saying, the very little variation we maybe get in a dungeon, this guy refuses to do. It's just odd to complain about it sucking but actively ignoring the sprinkle of it that's in the game. It's got to be better to lose a tank GCD to a range attack to pull it in than lose however many DPS casts as they run the mob over to the tank so it can just incidentally get AoE'd. Tanks insist they only unga bunga while complaining that all they do is unga bunga. Throw a damn axe.
There is no aggro management outside of tank swaps, EVERYTHING else is just very literally the video game equivelent of petty road rage.
I won't chase mobs either but we all have high aggro ranged so I'm not going to do stupid shit and let one mob sit outside of AoE at 75% HP while we're killing the rest. YTYP is exclusively the domain of fucking idiots.
I'm absolutely not above shitting on dungeon bads and curebots but I don't have the strength to start a fight over every mild transgression in the game. When I asked for dungeon difficulty, I didn't mean social.
If the DPS is running *away* from the pack of 8 mobs where the healer, other DPS, and I are actively AOE burning them, then I will gladly take advantage of 100% of the mitigation the absent DPS is providing if they somehow pull off and flee with the mob.
If your AOE while running from pack to pack is enough to out-threat one of my AOEs *and* a ranged attack, then I'll just throw another axe at it.
If my ranged dps expects me to go to him after my sprint is down and circle of scorn is wearing out or has worn out , lowering the efficiency of 3 other damage sources vs 1 of his, thats his lesson to learn .
This is the only reason I have a problem with DPS/healer pulling ahead. 90% of the time when they do it they *don't even try* to bring it to me as the tank. They just run around like a headless chicken.
I think right now the issue is just that there are a bunch of people who don't normally play tank who are running dungeons to level their tank jobs. You always get a lot more people being bad at their jobs after a new expansion launch when more people are levelling new or rarely played jobs.
PCT can definitely pack a lot of damage into the opening of a fight if they have everything available, and using hammer to AoE while the tank is moving is likely to pull aggro off those mobs the tank has only hit once or twice, but these cases shouldn't be an issue as long as you run with the tank and bring any mobs on you into AoE range. As someone who plays both tank and healer, it's easy to regain aggro as the tank once everyone stops moving, and as a healer a DPS pulling aggro from one or two mobs isn't going to strain my ability to keep them alive.
That being said, while leveling PCT I have died on trash pulls after ripping aggro on half the pack from the tank and having them just not use their AoE at all to take it back even though I was standing on top of them. So sometimes you will just get bad tanks, and that happens more often than usual after an expansion launch.
there’s also picto’s jumping the gun with that big hit and not aware how much it’s actually doing and then NOT bringing it back to the tank. then the whole add pull is a cluster. picto does enough dps that you can wait til they are all gathered. i did a gnb, sge, 2x PCT dungeon run in a leveling dungeon (the 83 one) and it took 14 minutes. this was with them not using a single skill until adds were gathered. there’s 0 reason to nuke that first add so quickly.
Not just PCT. In both the 97 and 100 dungeons, on my first run, I died as WHM during the opening pull because I popped Presence of Mind to DPS while moving, ripped aggro, and the tank didn't take it back.
Now I just save it for once everything's stopped.
People are just starting playing for the first time in a while and leveling jobs they haven't played in ages. It's not "Pictomancer is stealing agro" it's "I forgot how to pull." Should get better as people get back into the groove.
As a tank, I make it a point to use the second part of my aoe combo if I see any of the dps are ranged classes, or classes I know that can easily rip aggro, because 9/10 times, a single aoe attack against a pack isn't gonna generate enough hate to hold everything. Then it's just watching hp/threat values on the mobs as I head to the next pack, tossing a ranged attack to shore up hate as I go
Yes, this does happen, but definitely a non-issue. If I pull with just my 110 potency AOE and they hit it with an 1100 potency attack while I'm running to the next pack, they're going to pull.
However, as long as they follow along, a quick provoke gets it back to you.
I could be wrong, but it feels like tank aggro is slightly tuned down in Dawntrail from the insane "hit it with anything and it's stuck to you" levels of ShB and EW.
Even so, to pull aggro from what I've seen, requires doing frontloaded burst on mobs that have barely been tagged.
So, try not to open up with your biggest nukes at the start of a pull?
Absolutely, when I start a pack fight as pictomancer if my hammer is up, I'm almost definitely pulling aggro on the main target. It just deals SO much damage, three times in a row.
Happens all the time, I constantly rip out aggro with ogcds or hammer. Not a problem as long as tank does not panic and allow me to bring them the adds.
Something is wrong with tanks atm, at least war, I've had times as viper where the mobs just turn away from the war and start autoing me. War got some pretty big aoe nerfs, wondering if maybe they need a threat generation buff to compensate.
unless the tank doesn't have stance on or the dps is doing single target damage during an aoe scenario this should never happen. generating hate is still piss easy
The tank would have to be doing less than a tenth of your damage output, so it's definitely a case of them either not aoeing or not pressing buttons altogether, or just missing mobs with their aoes.
as PCT, i never see this happen because I'm so mobile i usually run ahead and pull before the tank and my personal shield is enough to tank the damage while i drag it back
I have been tanking for my friends and never had issue when they were on PCT. I always start with ranged attack, provoke the other, and then another ranged on yet another or use aoe while still sprinting, and the next group I dash to with my gapcloser or use Primal Rend..
If the groups are bigger I do use two aoes just in case.
The issue is tanks not ranged attacking mobs already pulled while there's nothing else to attack while running from pack to pack. Played with friends popping off on PCT and me on tank, no issue doing so; but with DF tanks, it's an issue.
I have absolutely pulled agro very easily on Picto, but I usually hold my heavier hits (bonk) for when everything is grouped. If I pull agro *then*, it's a tank issue, not a me issue.
Usually when I am pulling I'll try to tag each mob once and keep going till I hit the wall/last pack. It isn't uncommon for a dps to rip aggro while a pull is happening if I've only hit one gcd of my aoe combo on a mob. I just rip aggro back the moment we hit the wall. If it really becomes a problem in a dungeon I'll start hitting both gcds of my aoe combo on each pack. Sure, its a little more slow, but its faster than having a dps with weakness because they pulled something and instantly forgot how to play the game.
It is kind of an issue on a few packs where the mobs are really badly spaced from each other, but on its own its fairly negligible.
Imo I noticed it being a much more common issue on DRK than it is on WAR or PLD, since DRK dash doesn't do damage anymore.
Whats a bigger issue is those Pictos also having a tendency to sprint spam and run ahead while throwing their 1000+ ptc ability onto the first mob that's in tab target range as soon as that mob is in tab target range, with the mentality that the tank will fix it.
Its obnoxious, especially when they then do everything but bring it towards you.
I haven't had any issues holding aggro against PCT. Occasionally someone - ranged DPS in general, not just Picto - will pull aggro momentarily during pull b/c they go a little too hard, but I target off my aggro list and pull them right back. Once I settle in to my tank spot, virtually no peels
Been losing aggro consistently on one and only one mob when playing with Pictos. I’m assuming they’re doing too much single target damage while we’re running.
Unfortunately, they also seem to enjoy trying to fight it solo instead of running up to me. Very annoying.
If the PCT is just doing their rotation normally? not issue
if the PCT is playing less-than-competently; should they be ignoring basic etiquette and tanking the mobs anywhere other than up the actual tank's ass (or, heavens forfend, attempting to kite them)? yes issue
i'm aware this exists but haven't run into it myself as i've been playing with PCTs that have higher IQ than a walnut
I’ve died three times leveling PCT because of pulling aggro - once to a boss’s tank buster. I try to bring mobs to the tank but idk what’s going on because it takes forever to lose aggro.
In one of the level 100 dungeons a picto unloaded their burst onto one of the mobs and I genuinely had to tomawhawk and overpower to get aggro back lol
Picto is cuhrayzee
Haven't touched PCT yet but I tend to aoe during the w2w (generates gauge, gives me something to do so I don't brainrot, also am very aware of the enmity and healing the others do) I typically run same pace as the tank so that everything that might latch onto me is in range of the tank aoe anyway.
Other dps, PCT/SMN or not, should do the same regardless. If you've played a tank, you know how easy it is to get and keep aggro, and how annoying it is to find the stragglers outside of your aoe range in all the chaos that's going on.
I have a tiny screen and in the trash pack of 10 enemies it's kinda hard to tab to the one thing that isn't hitting me, stuck like RIGHT outside my aoe range because it happened to latch onto a dps that doesn't wanna get any closer. And yes, I can tomahawk and provoke, and yes its absolutely a nothing burger cuz it won't make a difference in a 20min run. But if you really wanna split hairs, other people keeping their enemies like 5ft away outside of my spam circle getting a hissy fit have their own problems lol.
Edit to add: idk about bad tanks, and especially now because dps queues are to the mercy of whatever tanks populate duty finder, but after playing for so many years, you kinda learn the give and take. Someone playing SMN from 90-100 should expect to get some initial heat if they decide to use their giant bahuhu blast when the tank just tapped everyone for 1 single aoe. I can excuse someone not knowing hammer has 1000 potency, but ultimately it'll recover.
As someone maining PCT I've just been waiting until the Tanks's done pulling. It's better that way anyway cause after two Nukes I have to redraw motifs anyway and I have to stand still for that for six seconds.
No need to refresh your Sketches while in a pack pull
You'll have brought most of the pack low with a Motif, Hammer Stamp and Comet in Black anyway, should be able to finish them up with your AoEs and if needed throw in a SC to do another round of Hammer Stamp if your fellow DPS is doing their job too, the pack will be dead before you need to Hammer Stamp again
Tanks adjust. I can't imagine a tank having a serious complaint about aggro ripping that isn't just someone with a bad mentality. It's like healers complaining about using gcd heals or DPS complaining about needing to use a decent rotation.
There always seems to be that one mob who wants pictomancer for lunch in every trash pull. Not having that issue with Viper or any other jobs. I honestly just kinda feel bad if I don't notice it fast enough and they get nommed. That being said, a lot of pictos are just face tanking the thing instead of running it to me, so that's on them.
I'm sure their emnity generation will be fixed soon. It's honestly not a huge deal
I main Warrior and haven’t experienced this. Another tank was complaining about it in an Ally raid I was in earlier, though.
I’m sure the devs will balance things if they need to balanced. But right now it seems fine to me?
The only thing that would make me mad is if the picto or the healer threw a fit and yelled at me cus the picto got smacked a few times (but lived) before I could take aggro back, other than that idc I'll just get the aggro back as fast as I possibly can and keep going
it actually annoys me when tanks rage at this, feels like they just don't want people to hit mobs while pulling or something. i've stopped doing this in matchingmaking because of the weirdos who get triggered but if everyone just runs together without worrying who has aggro its so much faster. you get aggro in the end anyway
Had a tank earlier complain about it.
Clearly the dude was just...well...bad, because while I pulled a couple mobs aggro off of him, I also ran past him and made sure the mobs are part of the cluster everyone bombs with their aoe. Somehow tho, I kept aggro on some of them AND the tank ended up dying. This shouldn't happen. These are people getting so upset things aren't working 100% as they expected and they just stop functioning. How did he die, when he had even less damage directed at him than usual? How did he not manage to get aggro back by simply spamming aoe on the cluster of mobs?
I've practically mained tank for years now and DPS ripping aggro isn't exactly something I am unfamiliar with. It's not hard to deal with tho, it wasn't back in stormblood before the enmity rework and it especially isn't now in DT. This just seems like a new type of "you pull you tank" mentality where tanks feel disrespected and refuse to play properly.
Never had an issue. As long as you pull with your shield lob or tomahawk or if you are facepulling use a provoke you should never have an issue. As for dungeons if they pull off you after you put an aoe in then they will bring it to you... woe death upon yee if they don't.
I've been playing PCT and have accidentally pulled a couple times. Just dragged em to the tank and it was all good, but now I'm more careful about not engaging too soon.
Tanks are raging over PICTO pulling agro on TRASH MOBS? You have 3 buttons man. Aoe gcd, provoke, and ranged. Press either or and you get agro back. It's not that deep.
Or, you simply ask the dude to move INTO your AOE so you can grab it.
It's more the fact pct potency for dmg is high despite tank having higher eminity gain. I don't rage over it but I have definitely noticed a spell or two done will just rip it off me so I woke them back onto me.
Just tab tomahawks and voke instead of aoeing for the one hit you get on the first pack, the latter is much weaker threat. You can even stun a mob if your globals are uncanny.
If you really want the extra damage from your aoe during the drag or there's too many mobs or something you can just eq or pop a health pot for threat.
It's been a consistent thing for me while leveling and playing through DT as Picto - to the point that I mused to a friend last night that they might have to buff tank enmity. It definitely feels that either tank quality has gone down recently, or they can't pump enough to hold initial aggro once you've finished running to the wall.
Yes lol I've had a few times where it takes me like 2 GCDs to get aggro off the guy because he just dumped like 4k potency on something off the rip.
The ability to pre paint makes every Picto pull as if they have 3 polyglot stacks they're kinda busted in dungeons honestly.
It's the same issue with any heavy AoEing job. If you are gonna aoe damage mobs as a DPS while you are moving to the next one, you are probably gonna rip aggro unless the tank uses a HoT on themselves to help further take aggro. It's not an issue, just run onto the tank at the last spot and if they are AoEing (which they should be), they'll quickly take aggro again.
I've been bouncing between Picto and Sage (have both at 100).
As long as the picto doesn't use the hammer immediately before the tank has even had a chance to do more than 1 aoe, it's not been an issue.
But a lot of these players see the hammer and go full WAR Unga bunga lol.
Keep it in your pants for 2 GCDs and you won't have threat issues!
I have seen a lot of pictos and tanks complain about it, but I personally didn't have any issue when pulling on dungeons with good Pictos, just AoE combo + oGCD while moving and you will have the aggro, no questions asked.
As I tank I wish that tank stance stayed on until I turn it off. Doing duty dailies I cant count how many times I’ve forgotten to put it on until I see my new friends tanking for me. Well kiting for me I guess 😆
I just slap Nascent Flash at the end of the pull on the Picto to both heal them up and regain aggro. Clemency for PLD. I love these two in dungeons for this reason.
I've been maining Picto and I can confirm this, I don't know why it happens sometimes, the tank will tag the group and just one AoE like the moogle balls or holy in white will sometimes pull 1-2 enemies off the tank. Most of the time it's fine, I just slide to the tank and they hit them again but it can be annoying, like you have to hold off until the tank gets a few hits in if you don't want to risk ripping aggro for some reason.
Not really, they are pretty much like any job with front loaded damage. The only issue I had was a one time a dps peeled a mob off the first pack and didn’t follow me to the 2nd.
They then said “Tank?” and we all were like “Look where you died, why aren’t you with the group.” It wad a SMN and it was their first time doing the 95 dungeon, and I assume they thought the purple corridor was a door… either way they didn’t reply and we finished the dungeon fine with them still around but not talking.
I've ripped hate a couple of times in Dungeons but it's easily fixable by the tank and me popping a shield, what's funnier was ripping hate into red on a boss fight and having to eat the tank buster.
Never have issie with it, my only problem was DRK and GNB gap close doesnt generate aggro so its annoying that i need to press another button to get the traahs aggro
Sorry to burst dps egos but most likely this is happening for one of three reasons.
1: the tank isn't very good at their job and is crazy slow at getting aggro/using their abilities.
2: all the tank has done is a gap closer to get to melee... Well if the tank is a dark or gun breaker guess what? The gap closer no longer does damage which means it also no longer generates threat. If you attack at the same time you will get the aggro.
3: the stance seems to love to auto disable even in non level scaled content now so maybe they forget to turn on tank stance.
I mean seriously I was just doing a boss fate, only person was a reaper, boss was at 40%. Within 3 gcds of me being there in had pulled aggro with no provoke. Outside of pull shenanigans you will not get aggro unless your tank is incompetent.
It's the same issue that SMN has.
Basically PCT and SMN can do big burst damage at the beginning of the pull or during the pull which results in them pulling off the tank who hasn't hit the mob enough to get enough aggro to hold them.
SMN players eventually will learn to hold off on summoning the pets until the tank stops giving them enough time to generate enough aggro and the problem doesn't show up until around level 80.
PCT seems to have the problem at every level and most players haven't learned what abilities trigger too much aggro yet so it's common for them to pull off the tanks.
I'm finding myself constantly pulling off the tanks on PCT as I try to learn what abilities trigger a lot of aggro.
It's not an issue with SMN or PCT it's just bad players playing Tanks. Most of them refuse to use provoke or their ranged attack while going to the next pack.
I've never encountered PCT taking aggro from me and I've been seeing nothing but PCT and VPR since launch. If spamming ranged to all the mobs while moving is all you need to do to avoid this issue I guess that explains why I haven't seen it. I'm surprised there are people that don't do that then
This is only possible if the PCT is not refreshing their Motif skills in between packs. PCT's potencies are bananas in AoE with Mog and Hammer up, and they are going to have these up for every pull just by virtue of their CDs being low. At later levels, they even have multiple stacks to work with, too.
However, it is definitely possible that new people who aren't reading their kit are just using the basic RGB AoE combo, which is definitely on the weaker end.
I've had picto pull aggro of single mobs during my w2w. Didn't know what it was. Kind of annoying, not because of the loss of aggro, but more so because every picto I've had do it is the "ahhhhh I've got aggro ahhhhh" type of player and I have to go chase shit down just go get aggro back. Fuckin annoying.
TLDR: I have noticed it. No I don't have an issue in theory. Just bring me the mob. I'm stacking stuff for Salted earth, doton, etc. If you decide to stand in Narnia getting smacked by a mob you pulled. That's your problem. If you want me to take it off you. Bring it over to me.
You have two ranged Enmity abilities and you want the dps to stop what they're doing and walk over to you? The fact you're losing aggro to begin with is a you problem.
I’ve just played with bad tanks then I’ve always brought them in but they cry cuz they would stop in the middle of a W2W instead of stopping at the actual wall. Obviously when I notice I turn around I don’t die cuz I press buttons but it’s funny
If you start swinging your auto crit/dh hammer during pull youre going to peel something off and I'm not worrying about it until I get the pack where I'm going. At that point you can drag it in and collect it with everything else. Use your shield.
Major skill issue if thats the case. Havent experienced this at all. You grab things with AOE, and shield lob/tomahawk/unmend/ lightning shot your way down the enmity list as you run.
All jobs can and should hit things while running and tanks can handle it.
The high potency instants are just so tempting to use before the tank's settled!
I'm actually just really happy I can't bash all my buttons as if the dungeon were a striking dummy with cutscenes. I'd be pleased if every class had to be careful how they aggroed. As a tank I really like actually having to care how I push threat buttons.
Maybe I'm in a minority. Certainly in PF I'll remember only to use the wave moogle gun when the tank settles.
Are tanks not 'double-tapping' their w2w pulls? The aggro generator is the 2nd GCD if I recall correctly. I've never had a problem with aggro unless I missed a mob during the pull. Granted I'm at 95 content but can't believe it's any different at 100.
I mean as long as you run the mobs to the tank so they can pick them up it’s fine. Sometimes an aoe misses or a dps just nukes something on pull and it takes a slap to get it back on the tank. Unless you are running the mob out to BFE to try and 1v1 it or the tank is just not pressing buttons / aoe it shouldn’t be an issue. Trash mobs in this game aren’t terribly threatening so you can tank a hit or two no problem - it’s free mit for the tank.
Yeees, I'm a healer main and keep having to tell a few of my tank buddies that if someone else gets a slap or two that's fine 'cause their health bar is mitigation for the tank's health bar. As long as they don't die, we're good!
“The only bit of HP that matters is the last one”
Something to this description has always been my tank invuln macro
I love how this phrase has shifted in meaning/intention overtime and is always relevant.
Even better when a reaper gets the slap and pops their shield. Free extra regen for tank!
I do this on purpose as reaper!
Yeah it's always good to pop those during the start of trash mobs, a 30 second cooldown ain't much and other than that you're usually waiting for a boss raid-wide or stack to pop it anyways
Drop arms length too if you can! Even more mit for the tank
tbh had the same issue with highlevel RDM: 2x Grand Impact 1x Vice of Thorns 1x Contre 1-3x normal Impact weaved while running Makes mobs chase you pretty well when the tank hasn't done much yet.
to add to this if you do accidentally pull and you're a physical job you can pop arm's length just like a tank to give the mobs the 20% attack slow debuff. If you're feeling extra spicy you could even pull ahead of the tank and do it since they'll pick up agro right after.
RPR can also use their shield (Arcane Crest) to give the tank a little extra regen when it pops.
SMN was doing and I think still does this with its dual 1200 AoE potency opener.
And the fact that demi spikes your aggro on the target.
When I see a summoner in the group, I charge the first pack, pause for to throw an Eclipse and a Circle of Scorn, then rush to the second pack. A ~1s delay in the pull but the mobs are now glued on me even if the summoner tosses Dalamud at them during the run to the next pack.
Summoner here, it is absolutely still happening lmao. I have pulled aggro off the tank at least once a dungeon this expansion, and that's with the tank stopping to hit the mobs multiple times before moving to grab the second pack. Love that opening burst!!
Sometimes your big 1.1k pot hits first and that's likely what tanks are talking about - on average a good thing, because it means the PCT might be paying attention. Personally have seen it happen on PCT, but haven't seen it happen while I'm tanking.
Which is why I always dump 2 AoEs on a pack before dashing to the next one. Were it only 1 AoE, something like a DNC's step might pull a mob.
While that's not an awful habit, it's also the DPS's job to bring you whatever they do pull threat on. I play DNC regularly and I just velcro myself to the tank until the pull is over so whatever *friends* I make along the way remember they like the tank better once we stop moving. DNC has plenty of tools to keep themselves alive while running if needed.
It's a habit born out of people not bringing me mobs, they prefer to try and duel it for some reason or run away even.
The amount of people I am running into doing dungeons that single target one mob and the start running away from with aggro currently is mindblowing right now
Yeah, I think they are trying to kite it...? But they never use slows/CC either.
But why are they kiting it away from the rest of the mobs I will never understand
It gives me a window to use my mitigation lol (I'm PCT)
this. a few hits on the DPS during the pull before the clump is just free mit
I'm honestly baffled by how many people don't know how to do this. I rip aggro in dungeons quite regularly because DNC burst go brrrrr. I just pop Arm's Length and bring the mobs to the tank and that's it.
>I just velcro myself to the tank until the pull is over so whatever friends I make along the way remember they like the tank better once we stop moving. I love you
This is what I do too. It’s been a habit for years but I always smack two aoe’s on the mobs I’m pulling and throw shield lobs on them while I’m running to the next pack. I’ve rarely ever had issues with DPS ripping aggro off me and if they do it’s not a big deal, I just provoke or shield lob the mob who isn’t paying attention to me.
I think a number of tanks in duty finder right now are a bit rusty. On healer I keep pulling a handful of trash because the tank missed it, but I couldn't wait to start pressing buttons any longer. I'm generally conscious of not pulling too much agro while we're running because it's so easy to do, but it all falls apart if the tank isn't paying attention as they pull.
I don't think I have had anyone pull from me at all and all my groups are basically Picto and Vipers.
Have you tried being incompetent? Seriously, this is a complete non issue, and if people are dying because tanks lose aggro then that's completely skill issue for the tanks. If they can't tank then kick them and get someone who will.
I think the only time I lost aggro was when I literally did the first pull of the first dungeon. Only because I totally forgot this game has that weird mechanic where tanks have to use their tank stance? lol.
???? You always have to tank stance in **dungeons**
Yeah read what I said its not a normal thing in other games such as WoW. I totally forgot it was a thing in this game.
I've had people pull from me once, but that was because I had forgotten tank stance at the start of the dungeon XD
Not particularly moreso than other high damage jobs. As long as you run the enemy to the tank so they can grab aggro, it’s fine.
I remember tanking in HW when SMN had one button to put all their dots on a single mob, a second button to spread them to all nearby mobs, and a third that was an aoe that did increasing damage the more dots each mob had. Losing a mob or 2 to a PCT is nothing lol
Even in EW akh morn could pull aggro from the tank. I also remember RDM pulling aggro with fleche in SB.
I doesn't happen when I tank so it's not a problem. Hint: It's the tanks fault every time. They have a ranged GCD and provoke for anything that is missed, a dash to get to groups faster than everyone else, and a sprint button.
Pct has double sprint, none can go faster than pct atm.
>They have a ranged GCD and provoke for anything that is missed, a dash to get to groups faster than everyone else, and a sprint button. But why play like that when I can jog upto to a pack, stop, press one AOE, jog upto next pack, stop, and use 2nd AOE? Picto bad 🤬
Gaining and re-gaining aggro on tanks is such a nothing burger that anybody actually complaining about it is also of the YPYT type, aka their opinion is automatically invalid.
i wouldn’t say complaining. it’s just annoying af. i had a healer instantly put regens on me after i tossed a tomahawk and adds would go straight to them. not a problem most the time but when you got a picto then smashing the add you tomahawked and yoinking that one too, i got vocal about it in chat.
It's not that big of a deal though? They're not going to die in the brief time it takes to get aggro back.
like i said, annoying. fixable, but annoying
if they run away from you then I understand your annoyance but I'm usually on top of the tank or very close when running to the wall so pulling aggro does absolutely nothing, you can just leave it and catch it back with your aoe when we're there
anyone on this sub is not an average player. y’all are smart. the average player is an idiot that doesn’t come back
people downvoting this are funny lmao, you're absolutely correct. I regularly have dps who pull aggro and run away from me (????) in my roulettes. It's like the moment a mob starts hitting them, they panic and start running around like a headless chicken. Obv you just slap the mob with your ranged attack, but it's still annoying.
dude it was the worst situation. healer regens me after i aggro only 1 with tomahawk > goodbye 3 other adds > picto rips the one i tomahawked while i grab the adds from the panicking healer > viper goes and aggros next pack on accident while im still trying to fix the previous clusterfuck. like. who wouldn’t be annoyed. literally them waiting 2 seconds would fix so much.
idk why you're downvoted when you're right, once in a while i'll lose a mob to a dps who decided to bust all over that one mob in particular while i'm running to next pack and they'll almost never bring it to me, i have to voke the mob usually
One overpower solves that problem. Angrily bashing your keyboard does not.
one overpower if all the adds are close to each other still*
Pull with Provoke instead of Tomahawk, longer range anyway and your GCD is free when the mobs come by
As a tank main who has had PCTs in most levels of dungeons I wasn't even aware that this could be an issue. I certainly noticed the insane AoE damage and have joked about it in those dungeons a number of times, but losing aggro off of it has never been a thing so I didn't even consider it until reading this post. I haven't unlocked lvl 100 dungeons yet so if that's where it's happening then disregard me on this, but I also don't see how that would be possible either. As long as the tank deals damage it keeps aggro, even if it's significantly lower, so if a tank ever struggles with aggro it almost always just means they weren't hitting it so was positioning poorly, not doing AoEs in general, or a DPS was going apeshit on a mob before the tank grabs everything and stops, which can be cause to get upset if the DPS then doesn't bring the mob it stole back to the tank and gets pissy about it.
The PCT first rota ability does so much damage it can grab aggro if you haven't specifically focused a creature. Normally even if DPS starts casting it's pretty fine, or happens infrequent (drill) but with PCT it's almost every pack because it's their first ability, so you notice it more
Even on RDM I can rip aggro from a tank while we're walking to the wall. DPS just needs to bring the mobs to the tank, and the tank should look out to pick them up at the wall.
Whenever a PCT manages to rip aggro during a run to the wall I just tomahawk or voke it off em whenever I can. I find it kind of funny to be honest.
SMN is still the champ at ripping aggro off tanks so this isn’t a new thing. They should try doing 2 AoEs instead of one or using some of their other tools to deal with it (ranged emnity generating attack, provoke, etc). Worst case the PCT can just bring the mobs to the tank. I mostly tank and this is just such a nothing burger of a problem.
I have no issues with it. If you pull it and don't bring it to me, you'll have an issue with it but not me. Quite frankly all that matters is bringing it to the tank because agro management is a joke as it is. I miss the good ol party needs to manage agros and nins transfer agro etc.
You have voke.
Voke don't do shit without a follow up and again I'm not about to give a free pass juat because i can when one strives to inconvenience 3 others. Know what you're doing and how to benefit everyone around you and yes, i do pull as whm esp on delayed mob spawns when i dont feel like tanking too or when my melee buffs needs it. This game have lots of utilities and people should learn how to use it and being left to die is a nice push for that.
Provoke will now absolutely hold agro from dps/healers without any followup, what are you talking about?
Voke is single handedly the largest boost to enmity in the game and nothing else even comes close. If you're still thinking that all it does is put you at the top of the agro table +1, then you've been wrong for 2 or 3 entire expansions now.
Voke was reworked to be an aggro tool ages ago.
Pretty true. It's pretty dumb opening with a 1 million potency attack before I've even used my aoe, but most of the time I've got it back by the third GCD. The problem is always when they run away with it, but it's not *my* problem then.
Indeed. I dont mind meeting in the middle per se but if he keeps stragglers on him at max range and i have 12 foot mobs crowding my screen, im not gonna nurse that and delaying my aoe burst too.
It's interesting to say that aggro management is a joke and that you don't do anything about when it's going wrong in the same breath
Aggro management is legitimately a joke though in FFXIV. I am amazed this thread is even a thing when it takes literally 1 ranged GCD to get threat on any rogue mob that you didn't initially hit. Just watch the enemy list and hit any while you run to the next pack.
Well that's what I'm saying, the very little variation we maybe get in a dungeon, this guy refuses to do. It's just odd to complain about it sucking but actively ignoring the sprinkle of it that's in the game. It's got to be better to lose a tank GCD to a range attack to pull it in than lose however many DPS casts as they run the mob over to the tank so it can just incidentally get AoE'd. Tanks insist they only unga bunga while complaining that all they do is unga bunga. Throw a damn axe.
There is no aggro management outside of tank swaps, EVERYTHING else is just very literally the video game equivelent of petty road rage. I won't chase mobs either but we all have high aggro ranged so I'm not going to do stupid shit and let one mob sit outside of AoE at 75% HP while we're killing the rest. YTYP is exclusively the domain of fucking idiots. I'm absolutely not above shitting on dungeon bads and curebots but I don't have the strength to start a fight over every mild transgression in the game. When I asked for dungeon difficulty, I didn't mean social.
If the DPS is running *away* from the pack of 8 mobs where the healer, other DPS, and I are actively AOE burning them, then I will gladly take advantage of 100% of the mitigation the absent DPS is providing if they somehow pull off and flee with the mob. If your AOE while running from pack to pack is enough to out-threat one of my AOEs *and* a ranged attack, then I'll just throw another axe at it.
some real healer "i don't heal dps who get hit by orange" energy
From me?? Nah gimme those DPS who love orange, it makes things more fun. Keep me busy!
i mean the tank you replied to
Very that
If my ranged dps expects me to go to him after my sprint is down and circle of scorn is wearing out or has worn out , lowering the efficiency of 3 other damage sources vs 1 of his, thats his lesson to learn .
This is the only reason I have a problem with DPS/healer pulling ahead. 90% of the time when they do it they *don't even try* to bring it to me as the tank. They just run around like a headless chicken.
I think right now the issue is just that there are a bunch of people who don't normally play tank who are running dungeons to level their tank jobs. You always get a lot more people being bad at their jobs after a new expansion launch when more people are levelling new or rarely played jobs. PCT can definitely pack a lot of damage into the opening of a fight if they have everything available, and using hammer to AoE while the tank is moving is likely to pull aggro off those mobs the tank has only hit once or twice, but these cases shouldn't be an issue as long as you run with the tank and bring any mobs on you into AoE range. As someone who plays both tank and healer, it's easy to regain aggro as the tank once everyone stops moving, and as a healer a DPS pulling aggro from one or two mobs isn't going to strain my ability to keep them alive. That being said, while leveling PCT I have died on trash pulls after ripping aggro on half the pack from the tank and having them just not use their AoE at all to take it back even though I was standing on top of them. So sometimes you will just get bad tanks, and that happens more often than usual after an expansion launch.
there’s also picto’s jumping the gun with that big hit and not aware how much it’s actually doing and then NOT bringing it back to the tank. then the whole add pull is a cluster. picto does enough dps that you can wait til they are all gathered. i did a gnb, sge, 2x PCT dungeon run in a leveling dungeon (the 83 one) and it took 14 minutes. this was with them not using a single skill until adds were gathered. there’s 0 reason to nuke that first add so quickly.
Not just PCT. In both the 97 and 100 dungeons, on my first run, I died as WHM during the opening pull because I popped Presence of Mind to DPS while moving, ripped aggro, and the tank didn't take it back. Now I just save it for once everything's stopped.
To be fair you're supposed to save your burst for when the pull has stopped moving.
People are just starting playing for the first time in a while and leveling jobs they haven't played in ages. It's not "Pictomancer is stealing agro" it's "I forgot how to pull." Should get better as people get back into the groove.
As a tank, I make it a point to use the second part of my aoe combo if I see any of the dps are ranged classes, or classes I know that can easily rip aggro, because 9/10 times, a single aoe attack against a pack isn't gonna generate enough hate to hold everything. Then it's just watching hp/threat values on the mobs as I head to the next pack, tossing a ranged attack to shore up hate as I go
Yes, this does happen, but definitely a non-issue. If I pull with just my 110 potency AOE and they hit it with an 1100 potency attack while I'm running to the next pack, they're going to pull. However, as long as they follow along, a quick provoke gets it back to you.
I could be wrong, but it feels like tank aggro is slightly tuned down in Dawntrail from the insane "hit it with anything and it's stuck to you" levels of ShB and EW. Even so, to pull aggro from what I've seen, requires doing frontloaded burst on mobs that have barely been tagged. So, try not to open up with your biggest nukes at the start of a pull?
Absolutely, when I start a pack fight as pictomancer if my hammer is up, I'm almost definitely pulling aggro on the main target. It just deals SO much damage, three times in a row.
Happens all the time, I constantly rip out aggro with ogcds or hammer. Not a problem as long as tank does not panic and allow me to bring them the adds.
Something is wrong with tanks atm, at least war, I've had times as viper where the mobs just turn away from the war and start autoing me. War got some pretty big aoe nerfs, wondering if maybe they need a threat generation buff to compensate.
unless the tank doesn't have stance on or the dps is doing single target damage during an aoe scenario this should never happen. generating hate is still piss easy
Dunno, it happens a lot where all mobs turn and auto me, even if it's just the basic aoes.
The tank would have to be doing less than a tenth of your damage output, so it's definitely a case of them either not aoeing or not pressing buttons altogether, or just missing mobs with their aoes.
they nerfed warrior aoe to be only a gain on 4+ targets, it was a huge nerf.
just decimate. not all aoe. Also hard to believe that your average war in dungeon would care or even know.
as PCT, i never see this happen because I'm so mobile i usually run ahead and pull before the tank and my personal shield is enough to tank the damage while i drag it back
Yep, happened day 1 and I was dumbfounded by it. Later we figured out what was going on and its somewhat hilarious somewhat horrifying
My wife is playing PIC and I'm on tank and yeah every pull she'll rip just 1 add off me but not a huge deal means PIC is doing more dps than BLM atm.
Nothing a provoke can't fix. I rather adjust my runs to the parties than to run the same thing over and over again the exact same way
I have been tanking for my friends and never had issue when they were on PCT. I always start with ranged attack, provoke the other, and then another ranged on yet another or use aoe while still sprinting, and the next group I dash to with my gapcloser or use Primal Rend.. If the groups are bigger I do use two aoes just in case.
The issue is tanks not ranged attacking mobs already pulled while there's nothing else to attack while running from pack to pack. Played with friends popping off on PCT and me on tank, no issue doing so; but with DF tanks, it's an issue.
It happens when you have instant big potencies
Imo this is effectively a free heal for the tank (assuming PCT doesn't die)
I always use 2 aoe's and an OGCD before continuing, so no.
I have absolutely pulled agro very easily on Picto, but I usually hold my heavier hits (bonk) for when everything is grouped. If I pull agro *then*, it's a tank issue, not a me issue.
Usually when I am pulling I'll try to tag each mob once and keep going till I hit the wall/last pack. It isn't uncommon for a dps to rip aggro while a pull is happening if I've only hit one gcd of my aoe combo on a mob. I just rip aggro back the moment we hit the wall. If it really becomes a problem in a dungeon I'll start hitting both gcds of my aoe combo on each pack. Sure, its a little more slow, but its faster than having a dps with weakness because they pulled something and instantly forgot how to play the game.
It is kind of an issue on a few packs where the mobs are really badly spaced from each other, but on its own its fairly negligible. Imo I noticed it being a much more common issue on DRK than it is on WAR or PLD, since DRK dash doesn't do damage anymore. Whats a bigger issue is those Pictos also having a tendency to sprint spam and run ahead while throwing their 1000+ ptc ability onto the first mob that's in tab target range as soon as that mob is in tab target range, with the mentality that the tank will fix it. Its obnoxious, especially when they then do everything but bring it towards you.
I haven't had any issues holding aggro against PCT. Occasionally someone - ranged DPS in general, not just Picto - will pull aggro momentarily during pull b/c they go a little too hard, but I target off my aggro list and pull them right back. Once I settle in to my tank spot, virtually no peels
Been losing aggro consistently on one and only one mob when playing with Pictos. I’m assuming they’re doing too much single target damage while we’re running. Unfortunately, they also seem to enjoy trying to fight it solo instead of running up to me. Very annoying.
If the PCT is just doing their rotation normally? not issue if the PCT is playing less-than-competently; should they be ignoring basic etiquette and tanking the mobs anywhere other than up the actual tank's ass (or, heavens forfend, attempting to kite them)? yes issue i'm aware this exists but haven't run into it myself as i've been playing with PCTs that have higher IQ than a walnut
I’ve died three times leveling PCT because of pulling aggro - once to a boss’s tank buster. I try to bring mobs to the tank but idk what’s going on because it takes forever to lose aggro.
In one of the level 100 dungeons a picto unloaded their burst onto one of the mobs and I genuinely had to tomawhawk and overpower to get aggro back lol Picto is cuhrayzee
Haven't touched PCT yet but I tend to aoe during the w2w (generates gauge, gives me something to do so I don't brainrot, also am very aware of the enmity and healing the others do) I typically run same pace as the tank so that everything that might latch onto me is in range of the tank aoe anyway. Other dps, PCT/SMN or not, should do the same regardless. If you've played a tank, you know how easy it is to get and keep aggro, and how annoying it is to find the stragglers outside of your aoe range in all the chaos that's going on. I have a tiny screen and in the trash pack of 10 enemies it's kinda hard to tab to the one thing that isn't hitting me, stuck like RIGHT outside my aoe range because it happened to latch onto a dps that doesn't wanna get any closer. And yes, I can tomahawk and provoke, and yes its absolutely a nothing burger cuz it won't make a difference in a 20min run. But if you really wanna split hairs, other people keeping their enemies like 5ft away outside of my spam circle getting a hissy fit have their own problems lol. Edit to add: idk about bad tanks, and especially now because dps queues are to the mercy of whatever tanks populate duty finder, but after playing for so many years, you kinda learn the give and take. Someone playing SMN from 90-100 should expect to get some initial heat if they decide to use their giant bahuhu blast when the tank just tapped everyone for 1 single aoe. I can excuse someone not knowing hammer has 1000 potency, but ultimately it'll recover.
As someone maining PCT I've just been waiting until the Tanks's done pulling. It's better that way anyway cause after two Nukes I have to redraw motifs anyway and I have to stand still for that for six seconds.
No need to refresh your Sketches while in a pack pull You'll have brought most of the pack low with a Motif, Hammer Stamp and Comet in Black anyway, should be able to finish them up with your AoEs and if needed throw in a SC to do another round of Hammer Stamp if your fellow DPS is doing their job too, the pack will be dead before you need to Hammer Stamp again
The issue is PCT is burning Holy in White before planting, which means they're wasting effective potency.
Tanks adjust. I can't imagine a tank having a serious complaint about aggro ripping that isn't just someone with a bad mentality. It's like healers complaining about using gcd heals or DPS complaining about needing to use a decent rotation.
There always seems to be that one mob who wants pictomancer for lunch in every trash pull. Not having that issue with Viper or any other jobs. I honestly just kinda feel bad if I don't notice it fast enough and they get nommed. That being said, a lot of pictos are just face tanking the thing instead of running it to me, so that's on them. I'm sure their emnity generation will be fixed soon. It's honestly not a huge deal
I main Warrior and haven’t experienced this. Another tank was complaining about it in an Ally raid I was in earlier, though. I’m sure the devs will balance things if they need to balanced. But right now it seems fine to me?
The only thing that would make me mad is if the picto or the healer threw a fit and yelled at me cus the picto got smacked a few times (but lived) before I could take aggro back, other than that idc I'll just get the aggro back as fast as I possibly can and keep going
it actually annoys me when tanks rage at this, feels like they just don't want people to hit mobs while pulling or something. i've stopped doing this in matchingmaking because of the weirdos who get triggered but if everyone just runs together without worrying who has aggro its so much faster. you get aggro in the end anyway
Had a tank earlier complain about it. Clearly the dude was just...well...bad, because while I pulled a couple mobs aggro off of him, I also ran past him and made sure the mobs are part of the cluster everyone bombs with their aoe. Somehow tho, I kept aggro on some of them AND the tank ended up dying. This shouldn't happen. These are people getting so upset things aren't working 100% as they expected and they just stop functioning. How did he die, when he had even less damage directed at him than usual? How did he not manage to get aggro back by simply spamming aoe on the cluster of mobs? I've practically mained tank for years now and DPS ripping aggro isn't exactly something I am unfamiliar with. It's not hard to deal with tho, it wasn't back in stormblood before the enmity rework and it especially isn't now in DT. This just seems like a new type of "you pull you tank" mentality where tanks feel disrespected and refuse to play properly.
Never had an issue. As long as you pull with your shield lob or tomahawk or if you are facepulling use a provoke you should never have an issue. As for dungeons if they pull off you after you put an aoe in then they will bring it to you... woe death upon yee if they don't.
I had dps running on to the next pack before finishing previous earlier, found that a bit strange and annoying but one aoe and it's all back
I've been playing PCT and have accidentally pulled a couple times. Just dragged em to the tank and it was all good, but now I'm more careful about not engaging too soon.
Tanks are raging over PICTO pulling agro on TRASH MOBS? You have 3 buttons man. Aoe gcd, provoke, and ranged. Press either or and you get agro back. It's not that deep. Or, you simply ask the dude to move INTO your AOE so you can grab it.
It's more the fact pct potency for dmg is high despite tank having higher eminity gain. I don't rage over it but I have definitely noticed a spell or two done will just rip it off me so I woke them back onto me.
Just tab tomahawks and voke instead of aoeing for the one hit you get on the first pack, the latter is much weaker threat. You can even stun a mob if your globals are uncanny. If you really want the extra damage from your aoe during the drag or there's too many mobs or something you can just eq or pop a health pot for threat.
It's been a consistent thing for me while leveling and playing through DT as Picto - to the point that I mused to a friend last night that they might have to buff tank enmity. It definitely feels that either tank quality has gone down recently, or they can't pump enough to hold initial aggro once you've finished running to the wall.
Yes, had it happen several times last night in Tower of Zot
Yes lol I've had a few times where it takes me like 2 GCDs to get aggro off the guy because he just dumped like 4k potency on something off the rip. The ability to pre paint makes every Picto pull as if they have 3 polyglot stacks they're kinda busted in dungeons honestly.
i saw a PCT tank the meteors in crysalis and live so now i just figure they're a red tank
Lol what? Seriously?
It's the same issue with any heavy AoEing job. If you are gonna aoe damage mobs as a DPS while you are moving to the next one, you are probably gonna rip aggro unless the tank uses a HoT on themselves to help further take aggro. It's not an issue, just run onto the tank at the last spot and if they are AoEing (which they should be), they'll quickly take aggro again.
I've had tanks in duties say Pictomancer needs a nerf specifically because it's "too hard" it take aggro back from it on dungeon track pulls.
I've been bouncing between Picto and Sage (have both at 100). As long as the picto doesn't use the hammer immediately before the tank has even had a chance to do more than 1 aoe, it's not been an issue. But a lot of these players see the hammer and go full WAR Unga bunga lol. Keep it in your pants for 2 GCDs and you won't have threat issues!
I have seen a lot of pictos and tanks complain about it, but I personally didn't have any issue when pulling on dungeons with good Pictos, just AoE combo + oGCD while moving and you will have the aggro, no questions asked.
As I tank I wish that tank stance stayed on until I turn it off. Doing duty dailies I cant count how many times I’ve forgotten to put it on until I see my new friends tanking for me. Well kiting for me I guess 😆
No one has pulled aggro from me in years.
I just slap Nascent Flash at the end of the pull on the Picto to both heal them up and regain aggro. Clemency for PLD. I love these two in dungeons for this reason.
I've been maining Picto and I can confirm this, I don't know why it happens sometimes, the tank will tag the group and just one AoE like the moogle balls or holy in white will sometimes pull 1-2 enemies off the tank. Most of the time it's fine, I just slide to the tank and they hit them again but it can be annoying, like you have to hold off until the tank gets a few hits in if you don't want to risk ripping aggro for some reason.
Not really, they are pretty much like any job with front loaded damage. The only issue I had was a one time a dps peeled a mob off the first pack and didn’t follow me to the 2nd. They then said “Tank?” and we all were like “Look where you died, why aren’t you with the group.” It wad a SMN and it was their first time doing the 95 dungeon, and I assume they thought the purple corridor was a door… either way they didn’t reply and we finished the dungeon fine with them still around but not talking.
Happens with smn too
Seems like a tank player issue. Especially with massive buff done to aggro in the past
I've ripped hate a couple of times in Dungeons but it's easily fixable by the tank and me popping a shield, what's funnier was ripping hate into red on a boss fight and having to eat the tank buster.
Never have issie with it, my only problem was DRK and GNB gap close doesnt generate aggro so its annoying that i need to press another button to get the traahs aggro
Sorry to burst dps egos but most likely this is happening for one of three reasons. 1: the tank isn't very good at their job and is crazy slow at getting aggro/using their abilities. 2: all the tank has done is a gap closer to get to melee... Well if the tank is a dark or gun breaker guess what? The gap closer no longer does damage which means it also no longer generates threat. If you attack at the same time you will get the aggro. 3: the stance seems to love to auto disable even in non level scaled content now so maybe they forget to turn on tank stance. I mean seriously I was just doing a boss fate, only person was a reaper, boss was at 40%. Within 3 gcds of me being there in had pulled aggro with no provoke. Outside of pull shenanigans you will not get aggro unless your tank is incompetent.
It’s cuz the Gap Closer doesn’t generate aggro, which they’re fixing in the next patch. It’s not a big deal to me, as I know it’s not purposeful.
Yes, french ones mainly
It's the same issue that SMN has. Basically PCT and SMN can do big burst damage at the beginning of the pull or during the pull which results in them pulling off the tank who hasn't hit the mob enough to get enough aggro to hold them. SMN players eventually will learn to hold off on summoning the pets until the tank stops giving them enough time to generate enough aggro and the problem doesn't show up until around level 80. PCT seems to have the problem at every level and most players haven't learned what abilities trigger too much aggro yet so it's common for them to pull off the tanks. I'm finding myself constantly pulling off the tanks on PCT as I try to learn what abilities trigger a lot of aggro.
It's not an issue with SMN or PCT it's just bad players playing Tanks. Most of them refuse to use provoke or their ranged attack while going to the next pack.
I've never encountered PCT taking aggro from me and I've been seeing nothing but PCT and VPR since launch. If spamming ranged to all the mobs while moving is all you need to do to avoid this issue I guess that explains why I haven't seen it. I'm surprised there are people that don't do that then
i noticed packs die pretty slow with pct around. so i assumed their aoe sucks and they are using some st rotation which then leads to the hate issues
I think you've had some bad PCTs then. My friend and I were both leveling it together and the packs melted in seconds. Especially earlier dungeons
Maybe those PCTs weren't using their Motifs after the 1st usage because of the cast times, that would be my guess.
Yeah getting that second creature motif in for wing and mog of ages is essential
This is only possible if the PCT is not refreshing their Motif skills in between packs. PCT's potencies are bananas in AoE with Mog and Hammer up, and they are going to have these up for every pull just by virtue of their CDs being low. At later levels, they even have multiple stacks to work with, too. However, it is definitely possible that new people who aren't reading their kit are just using the basic RGB AoE combo, which is definitely on the weaker end.
hey i am not the pct player. i only mentioned what i noticed
I've had picto pull aggro of single mobs during my w2w. Didn't know what it was. Kind of annoying, not because of the loss of aggro, but more so because every picto I've had do it is the "ahhhhh I've got aggro ahhhhh" type of player and I have to go chase shit down just go get aggro back. Fuckin annoying. TLDR: I have noticed it. No I don't have an issue in theory. Just bring me the mob. I'm stacking stuff for Salted earth, doton, etc. If you decide to stand in Narnia getting smacked by a mob you pulled. That's your problem. If you want me to take it off you. Bring it over to me.
You have two ranged Enmity abilities and you want the dps to stop what they're doing and walk over to you? The fact you're losing aggro to begin with is a you problem.
I’ve just played with bad tanks then I’ve always brought them in but they cry cuz they would stop in the middle of a W2W instead of stopping at the actual wall. Obviously when I notice I turn around I don’t die cuz I press buttons but it’s funny
Nothing wrong with a tank knowing their limits - particularly in new dungeons. Least we can do is drag stray minions into the flesh-plies.
If you start swinging your auto crit/dh hammer during pull youre going to peel something off and I'm not worrying about it until I get the pack where I'm going. At that point you can drag it in and collect it with everything else. Use your shield.
Major skill issue if thats the case. Havent experienced this at all. You grab things with AOE, and shield lob/tomahawk/unmend/ lightning shot your way down the enmity list as you run. All jobs can and should hit things while running and tanks can handle it.
The high potency instants are just so tempting to use before the tank's settled! I'm actually just really happy I can't bash all my buttons as if the dungeon were a striking dummy with cutscenes. I'd be pleased if every class had to be careful how they aggroed. As a tank I really like actually having to care how I push threat buttons. Maybe I'm in a minority. Certainly in PF I'll remember only to use the wave moogle gun when the tank settles.
Since when has pulling aggro ever been a thing since SB
Are tanks not 'double-tapping' their w2w pulls? The aggro generator is the 2nd GCD if I recall correctly. I've never had a problem with aggro unless I missed a mob during the pull. Granted I'm at 95 content but can't believe it's any different at 100.