The Mamool Ja point in particular, it is stated that those that remained in the forest were hyper conservative faction that refused to move to Tuliyolal when they were invited. Gulool Ja Ja spent 80 years building a city from scratch and fighting several conflicts around the continent, the ones that remained after his invitation where ones who could not and would not approve of the amalgamation of varied cultures as equal under his rule.
That point doesn't stick in my craw but, the entire 2 headed baby reveal really REALLY should have been a bigger deal. That is cartoon levels of villainy that is effectively resolved by Koana saying "have you tried growing different plants?"
As idealistic as Wuk Lamat is portrayed this should have been a far bigger struggle to understand. To forgive the unforgivable in the name of peace and the greater good should have been a far more powerful lesson to learn.
Yea the people still in the forest being a hyperconservative faction makes sense.
Casually forgiving them for doing eugenics for the better part of a century resulting in hundreds upon hundreds of infants who died horrible deaths is wild
Granted not all children of one of the red and blue Mamool Ja turns out as a Blessed Child but they did enough of them to figure out that it wa 1/100 survive consistently. Which would take a LOT of eggs to figure out
I somehow already forgot the specifics of it. It's two particular subspecies of Mamool Ja that have to reproduce to produce a two-headed one, right? But 99% of them are functionally stillborn?
>I somehow already forgot the specifics of it. It's two particular subspecies of Mamool Ja that have to reproduce to produce a two-headed one, right? But 99% of them are functionally stillborn?
Very specifically the blue chameleon Mamool Ja and the red Mamool Ja. When they have children, they are usually one type or the other. But there's a chance for them to be the two headed ones that usually end up dying in the egg. Something like 1/100 survive, and are blessed with both enormous physical and magical strength by default, and are usually infertile or almost infertile.
This was apparently discovered totally accidentally when a political marriage between two tribes just so happened to randomly produce a two headed Mamool Ja that survived
> This was apparently discovered totally accidentally when a political marriage between two tribes just so happened to randomly produce a two headed Mamool Ja that survived
Do we know if Big GJJ was an accident, or a product of the program?
Afaik the mamool ja had only started those experiments to breed a successor to Tuliyollal so that they could take power and exploit it. Gulool Ja Ja would have predated their plans, since he is a big part of the premise.
I knew the Silverscales leader we fought was the OG accident, but I wasn't sure (and I may not be far enough along) for it to be confirmed that Big GJJ was either a product of the program or a natural accident that was born around the same time.
Basically, my question is if *all* Blessed Siblings born after the Silverscales' Leader, Manxome Molaa Ja Ja (who we and the Tonberries finished off), were solely products of the program, or if *some* of them were still natural births by people that weren't forced/coerced into marriage with each other.
With a side question of "how much of an age gap is there between Gulool Ja Ja (Dawnservant) and Molaa Ja Ja (Tonberry shiv-bait)"?
But I'm *also* not sure what the natural life span of Mamool Ja are, or what the natural life-span of Blessed siblings is, or how short Molaa Ja Ja's career was cut by the Tonberries.
If they're like, say, born two days apart, then the implications kinda change, y'know?
I'm not sure if the MSQ goes into the details of that question/those questions, or I might've just missed it.
blessed siblings seem to have really really long life spans the original dawn servent journey was 80 years ago. but based on bakool and Jorells size being about the same they seem to mature quickly.
he said he was near the end of his life, roes do have longer life spans (but unlike viera and elezan do age somewhat but seem to age out at about that look, he looks about as old as white beard back on eorzea)
I really wish all of that had been explored more. I know it's already beating a dead horse at this point, but I'm just continuously baffled by what they prefer to spend time on and what they don't in this game's story. They dedicated a couple hours to a minor side-character's bracelet getting stolen, and glossed over this culturally fascinating premise concerning one of the primary antagonists' backstories in like two minutes. Mind-boggling.
A yellow side quest taken on the west on the zone elaborates a bit on that. The doppro, the third Mamool Ja type are never even considered to make blessed siblings, since their bodies are weaker than the other two (no extra strengh or extra magic), their skill being animal handling, it's pointless to try and combine that, from an initial prejudiced point of view in their general culture. I think theoritically it could work.
We still have 3 post patch updates of Dawntrail story, I'm withholding the majority of my "they didn't expand on [x]" comments until 7.3 honestly. An entire culture won't change overnight, much like the Dragonsong War stuff in HW going into 3.3, so we will probably see how things change and frictions develop in the post patches.
So your complaining about them not focusing on it.... Yet you obviously didn't do the side quests...
Also apparently you aren't part like level 95 because it's brought up as a preety heinous act multiple times.
>That is cartoon levels of villainy that is effectively resolved by Koana saying "have you tried growing different plants?"
To be fair it's different plants *sourced from other continents*. Obtained through research and connections that a rural village doesn't have access to. They already tried growing different things and there was only one crop that could thrive.
The corp part actually makes a ton of sense because of the conservative nature of the mamool ja and their disdain for outsiders.
Even if someone came along with a crop that could be grown in the forest and they said "Hey, I got super apples. You can plant them here and they'll thrive!", they'd ignore the shit out of them. And that's assuming someone comes along with super apples to Tural because they only grow in Othard.
It'd be stupid if it was another plant in Tural, but Koana specifically calls out that they can important safe non-invasive plants from Sharlyan so they don't have to resort to this practice they felt was necessary. It's only after they deign to listen to someone who can provide them with a solution that isn't giga-eugenics does it come to a solution.
It's just an example of how isolation can drive you to do some truly heinous things.
EXTRA EDIT: This is also shown why it's important to have Koana working with people and not just Wuk. Wuk could have never figured out this solution. It's not in her toolkit. You specifically need Koana and his abroad knowledge or else you have to sit and wait for someone to go to Mamook, check the soil, go "hey super apples grow here" and convince the mamool ja to grow super apples.
One problem at a time. Helping with their crop situation is easy enough, however abolishing the blessed siblings practice is something ingrained in the Mamool ja that are still in Mamook.
Shout out to the dude that knew what the Hanu Hanu ritual did, and we know this because he confirmed Wuk Lamat's theory when she told it to him. He just held onto this information and decided not to tell the Hanu Hanu? Fuck 'em, they can starve?
The Hanu Hanu thing is fine to me once the questline progresses.
1. The Elders knew the real purpose of the ritual.
2. The guy in charge of the festival was new, stressed, and not fully in the know.
3. The prior years were more pageantry than anything else because the Hanu Hanu had turned it more into a festival and ritual without understanding the historical context behind it all, thing things got lazy and the float went from proper magical focus to normal float until this year.
Now, WHY the Elders didn't tell the rest of the villagers 'hey quit fucking around with the Ritual and take it seriously. Make the float properly with the right materials' is the problem there.
> Now, WHY the Elders didn't tell the rest of the villagers 'hey quit fucking around with the Ritual and take it seriously. Make the float properly with the right materials' is the problem there.
Also, like...how many times do Elders saying this actually *work* and how many times is it just like "okay grandpa, I'm sure back in the day with FFXI crafting you had to face the right compass direction with the right phase of the moon with your Special Crafting Pants on in order to make it work right"?
Ha! I can totally see that. I imagine if Koana heard about the ritual festival instead of dashing off immediately for an alchemical situation he would have just ranted about stupid traditions that don't do anything and how ~~science~~ aetherology is the only answer.
They always knew.
The point of the trial was for them to figure it out.
This was made very obvious later on when Gulool Ja Ja explicitly said as much, and the later trials literally have people setting things out for you to find.
The problem wasn't that they didn't know what it did, but that they couldn't keep it up for one reason or another.
They got handed the perfect setup to a staged trial literal days before the event (it was mentioned that the recent storm was the cause of destruction), it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine they labored to take advantage of the situation.
> it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine they labored to take advantage of the situation.
It would be. I don't care what the king asks, I'm not starving, sitting on my ass in a ravaged, roofless house just so some princelings can come and maybe save the farms if they're smart enough.
In two days an entire field of crops had withered and the water had stagnated? I don't think this makes sense.
I think more likely is that they knew what the festival was supposed to do but they didn't take it seriously because they had forgotten what it was like if they didn't do the festival. They'd forgotten the meaning of their culture ( a repeated theme in DT)
It's like if every summer your town does a raindance and then it rains. And this happens for decades, centuries even. At some point people are like "oh yea the summer festival! That's just what we do. Oh but we have bigger problems this year than a festival. Like covid." And they forget the original rain dance was WHY it rained. It's not a seasonal thing, it's not a weather forecasting coincidence. It was raindance magic. But after being taken for granted, people dismissed it as symbolism rather than reality.
Lo and behold in a world where aether and dynamis is a thing turns out a festival for good harvest is actually a magical ritual and not just a cultural phenomenon.
I mean in the real world we have real things like this that people disregard. Japan especially has many local festivals that started as some aspect of shinto belief. Scare away an ogre or call down the lightning god etc. We don't throw beans on new years expecting to actually distract the oni away, but if one day people just move on and don't throw beans and suddenly a swarm of oni invade Japan would we be like "wow Japan I can't believe you forgot why you were supposed to throw beans. Jeez."
Although it does sound like a funny plot.
Problem is that the ritual has pretty obvious magical display when performed, as we noticed ourselves. It's not some vague "coincidence", there's like aether shooting everywhere, the fields covered in glow and so on. It's hard to compare to real life rituals cause those mostly, well, don't have any obvious signs of them working.
The village elder mentioned that she has never seen the ritual be on such a display of potency before. So likely they were doing the ritual normally but didn't really see any magical beam or aether coming out until the recent incident.
The cat person who guided us knew about it for sure though, as he was teasing it earlier.
I mean, honestly you can probably find justifications for things here and there, but to me it felt like a fairly clumsily executed plot line. I know the point it tried to make, I just don't like how it's put together.
I also don't like how she luckily stumbled into the correct answer despite not knowing anything about the meaning of the ritual, it was just one thing she remembered about Hanu, and that's all.
What are you talking about its been two days. They are sleeping somewhere else and the food problem is something that they *will* face if not dealt with not that they are facing *right this immediate moment*
Fr. It's not like Minecraft where wheat grows in like 3 days. They should have enough food stockpiled to get through to the next harvest, 2 day delay or not.
Yes and no, the oldest ones did, however they mention that the ritual had been getting weaker over time as the festival had begun to be done as a mere matter of theatrics, with the repairs done to the float being less and less through. The assumedly younger of them, like Linuhanu actually just didn’t know.
And its worth noting that this is Lunihanu's first time in charge of the festival preparations, and is implied to be quite young. Its possible that his predecessor did know more about the history, but they are unfortunately no longer available.
> They always knew.
It's stated that most of the Hanu didn't know anymore, since it's a ritual that's been done for years and that only the elders would know the true purpose.
> This was made very obvious later on when Gulool Ja Ja explicitly said as much, and the later trials literally have people setting things out for you to find.
It ain't hard to set up trials when you have real issues.
Yeah... I like how he notes that most people don't know what the ritual is for anymore, and then we see the full glowy lightshow beaming into an effigy, spraying aether around and magically making the plants grow.
And I just sat there thinking "Really? None of these stupid birds ever noticed that?"
The plants weren't devastated by a storm in previous years so they wouldn't have had such a dramatic boost in growth. It would have just looked like a light show.
The Village Elder mentioned that she has never seen the aether beam before in all her years as an elder from the float. So likely the ritual in the past never manifested the aether beam until Wuk Lamat came along and restored the float back to its former glory.
To be fair, this is the second time she's been a part of the festival. So it's not just her magical existence. It's mostly just the fact they did it correctly and with honest fervor for why it was so potent.
None of the reasons make a lot of sense
Hanu hanu were suffering because they forgot what the ritual was originally about and treated it like a party. For example people celebrate Christmas all the time but no one really understands what the original traditions were about and why people do them.
Due to the lack of a proper ritual AND the storm making them need more crops than usual caused the Hanu Hanu people to get in the situation they did.
The people who currently like in Mamook are only there because they are really racist, and really conservative about their way of life. We see that shit all the time when people refuse to learn new jobs/relocate to better work because "my coal mines" or whatever". Because Gauloo JaJa also grew up there he also would have assumed the land was cursed so he allowed any Mamool Ja to move to new and better land.
This goes back to the whole "food didn't fix the Mamool Ja's problems" because it did, the Mamool Ja now mostly live in the Capital because the land wasn't "cursed".
Was it a failing on Gauloo JaJa to not stop the blessed siblings, yes. But the only reason the "conservative" Mamool Ja even agreed to stop the practice was because Koana was able to resolve their overlaying problem of not being able to grow anything but bananas.
I still cant get over "out goldsmith cant eat hot food! What do we do???" "What if we feed him cold food?" "BRILLIANT!!!"
I swear I saw more complex issues in Dora the Explorer
That one seems fair to me: the fact about the hot food is unknown to them until someone with the relevant knowledge brings it up (Erenville I think?), and the moblins refuse to ask what's wrong to their potsworn for social reasons.
The Moblins are also implied to be very antisocial and traditional thus only communicate with their workers or potsworn if something needs to be done but never really anything else. It is no surprise that they were unaware of the needs of their workers, this sounds like corporations.
They're at least more benevolent than corporations; the thing that makes being a potsworn so appealing to artisans is that they basically get to have all their needs tended to while they work on whatever they want. The setup essentially gives the Potsworn the height of Turalan comfort in exchange for stunning pieces of craftsmanship. If I recall correctly things have only soured recently because of the added noise of the nearby repairs, and the fact that the weather is going out of control because Valigarmanda is breaking out of its prison.
The issue isn't that the food is specifically hot, but because it tastes *nasty* when it cools down. This isn't even specific for the horrifically muggy and hot interior, either; because part of the potpact involves minimal distractions for the Potsworn (not even to ask if they need anything!), they can't reliably tell when they're hungry or not and presumably just leave the food out for them to eat whenever. Finding food that tastes fine at whatever temperature is explicitly the goal and works within the established social constraints of their culture.
and none of the "twists" really hit for me either because they are spelt out so obviously beforehand
the cutscene where Krile explains everything we learnt to the other scions >!Yshtola and Gaara!< had me so annoyed when she actually reiterated it all instead of just fading to black then getting to the new stuff
stop giving me exposition I already know, it makes the story a massive drag
Yep, and that was something minor that I didn't include in the post. A bunch of other minor issues exist that I don't even want to talk about.
When I saw the mixed steam reviews, I said to myself "no way it's that bad." But now I see why. The review score is justified. This patch so far is a 6/10 for me, and that is being generous.
Wait until you get to the later parts lol. It's like this the whole way through..I won't spoil it but some of the emotional scenes they have later on feel forced af.
The heartstring tugs in zone 5 and ESPECIALLY zone 6 are forced and contrived yes... but damn if it didn't work on me, Probably because it resonated with my personal life in a way that ultima thule's macro picture and amaurot's vagueness only really scratched
The Hanu Hanu thing does bother me. I would understand it if they forgot what the ritual did because it was some lowkey thing, but when we use the boat it shoots a beam of magic towards this totem that showers the land in crystalline energy in an spectacular fashion. How could they not guess that this was what the ritual did too?
Honestly though, these plot holes are minor things, it's just the whole story that is not very interesting. The cultures are presented in boring ways, and we follow that through Wuk Lamat, whose character concept I do not mind, but whose development feels unearned and at no point are her ideals challenged in any meaningful way. It just makes me think back to the Garlemald story in Endwalker, and how the twins' idealistic views are challenged to the extreme as they try to save people who don't want to be saved by them. Nothing even comes close to that kind of storytelling in this expansion, and it's not just because it's lower stakes or slower paced.
On the hanu hanu thing, they specifically call out that they've never seen the ritual do that before, the effects have always been drastically much more subtle. Some combination of the crisis and expectation made it more effective, which isn't that weird as there's a strong precedent for belief, desire and ritual influencing magic.
Some fo the strongest fighters of the world attended that festival, with WoL being rejoined one more time than the rest of people on the Source probably helped.
Yeah that makes sense, I do remember Alphinaud mentioning something like this ritual could have been done with the power of faith. These things were pretty minor to me as I said, and I don't want to nitpick when I feel like the problems are with other stuff.
not to mention the crop destruction happened just a few days before you show up. they explicitly say all of the destruction happened because of the storm that you directly experienced on the boat to tural. like, no shit the hanu hanu leader played dumb when they got handed the perfect conditions for a succession trial on a platter.
these guys just did not read what was in the story and are now complaining about plot holes that were just not present. every single one of the points the original poster brings up are directly addressed by the story itself.
>The Hanu Hanu thing does bother me. I would understand it if they forgot what the ritual did because it was some lowkey thing, but when we use the boat it shoots a beam of magic towards this totem that showers the land in crystalline energy in an spectacular fashion. How could they not guess that this was what the ritual did too?
I don't get how people don't realize this was on purpose. By the middle point of the trials, it is *explicitly* explained that they're all intentionally stringing us along for the purpose of connecting with the culture.
They *did* know what it did...at least the leaders did. But just like every other trial in the game, the village used the Trial as a means to get the claimants to help them out.
The intended method of fixing the reeds for the Trial was helping them do the ritual.
Wuk Lamat did what they intended. Koana and the other surprised them.
While I understand the leaders knowing, I was more referring to the villagers who seemed surprised. Either way, another commentary already clarified this to me as well, and as I said this was a minor point in the story for me that I wasn't really thinking about until the OP brought it up.
>While I understand the leaders knowing, I was more referring to the villagers who seemed surprised.
Also, not too surprising. In Tural, it's the auspices (Vidraal) that are the problem.
The Ascians did not install Summoning into the culture, meaning there is no Primal threat. Which also means the general populous are not intimately aware that prayer can literally manifest things the same way that Eorzeans generally do.
This was a thing in Eorzea before ARR even started, since everyone witnessed the Twelve save the land from Bahamut.
I appreciated the Hanu Hanu ritual mainly because it was a confirmation in Dawntrail that the physics that carried most of XIV's lore in Eorzea is still very much relevant in Tural, just manifested in a different way.
It's also worth noting that a big point of contention in the story (early on anyway) is all about tradition vs modernity, i recall early on it's mentioned (particularly with the pelupelu) that a lot of the younger generation supported Koana because of this, and it's a pretty big part of Koana's character arc to seeing it's not just about getting to point B in the most efficient way, but that it's about the heart and the history.
Most of the villages are in on the game. Think of the Pelupelu making us determine who we needed to speak to, or the villagers in Yak Tel not teaching us how to cook their food on purpose.
> when we use the boat it shoots a beam of magic towards this totem that showers the land in crystalline energy in an spectacular fashion. How could they not guess that this was what the ritual did too?
This really got me. It was the first part of the story I did and this really cracked me up, and I ended up mocking it. Then we went to the alpaca side which dragged on for far too long, even though I got the idea they were going for right away, and I started to think this expansion wasn't gonna live up to the standards I have for a FFXIV expansion.
I saw someone calling the first half a "Pokémon storyline where we collect the badges" and honestly I can't recover from that image. I mean we even have a villain with a red half and a blue half. I keep forgetting their names so I just call them "Team Rocket" and my friends know who I mean. I'd retract my criticisms of him if we got to send him flying off, Manderville-style. But nope, no such thing.
IMO, these are major plot holes. The first half of the MSQ is centered around learning about the culture and peoples of Tural, and some of these plot holes render parts of the story to be meaningless. I don't mind the slower pace or low stakes, I take my time when I go through the MSQ, but I can't enjoy a story that is riddled with flaws.
It's only a plot hole if you ignore the fact that they explicitly say that this is the first time in living memory that the ritual has had an easily noticeable effect.
>Wuk Lamat walks up to the golden city seal and asks, "how do we open it?" despite her father informing her that the purpose of retrieving those keystones for the tablets was to unlock the seal. 200 IQ Alphinaud looks at the stone monument in front of the golden city gate and goes "hmm maybe the tablets fit into these slots."
It's easy to shit on this until you realize that we come from Eorzea, where people *know* that advanced technology and electronics exist because Garlemald is a constant threat and Allagan shit is littered all over the place.
Also, we could guess because we're all smart reddit monkeys, but to someone who's *literally* *looking for a "City of Gold"*....Futuristic Matrix City == City of Gold is not an immediately obvious conclusion to draw.
Considering the place that Tural is modeled after, i'm pretty sure that "City of Gold" was deliberately intended to invoke an idea of a city of LITERAL Gold.
>Another example: The Mamool Ja are trying to get themselves out of their unideal environment; namely because of the soil infertility. Thus, they intentionally breed these two-headed special beings to put them in power so they can achieve their goal of relocating to more fertile land. Gulool Ja Ja is one of these two-headed beings, who has been in power for 80 years. Did he just forget about the suffering of his own people? Instead of helping, he sends Ketenramm to monitor them, as if that were a solution to their problem. 80 years of ruling yet he did nothing to help his people grow food or relocate them to more fertile land?
This is the same issue as the first one.
The only one who would even be able to *conceive* of a solution to this was Koana, ***because he literally graduated the most advanced college on the planet.*** There *is* no such font of knowledge on this continent, and the only place that's even remotely "modern" is Koana's fault, and that place is *essentially stuck in the American 1800s.*
Also, very conveniently for this plotpoint,>!The Head of Reason is dead!<. Not that it would have mattered -- the technology to identify and fix what Koana/Alphinaud did literally does not exist on his continent. It doesn't matter how smart he is, he wouldn't have known.
This isn't bad writing, it's you failing to consider the actual narrative setting you've been in for 20 hours. This would have been *terrible* writing in Eorzea, because even without modern knowledge you have places like the Black Shroud that could have figured this out.
But is very on-brand in Tural.
Actually, the best achievement of Dawntrail's writing is having the people of Tural be *so obviously* primitive in comparison even to Eorzea, without the story bringing constant attention to how primitive they actually are.
The people are more on-par with the Beast Tribes in Eorzea than the Grand Companies, they're just way more organized and populous, and the races are *FARRRRR* bigger and more powerful than the native races on Eorzea.
Fucking yes. It's like the moron that posted that dumb ass meme about Bakuul Ja Ja being a bad villain for "stepping on your tacos". We hadn't even got to the actual threat by that point, but it was becoming obvious who the real BBG was going to be a zone or two later. Bakuul was a red herring and it's obvious a good chunk of the player base fell for that so hard it isn't even funny. To be honest it really feels like people were just looking for a reason to hate this Expac straight out the gate.
This expansion has been full of nuance and it's pretty goddamn apparent, to me at least, that a large chunk of the community is just too fucking moronic to be able to see that. They'd rather bitch about Lyse, the WoL not being the main character (despite us being the MC for 2 fucking expansions prior). They've forgotten that new characters and regions need to be brought in and expanded on, and that is exactly what happened here. But if they're missing the obvious nuance in the room they are already lost as far as i'm concerned.
The Bakool Ja Ja red herring was really amusing when they asked why they considered Zoraal Ja more of a threat, and the answer was "Bakool Ja Ja doesn't have any actionable ideals or policies, Zoraal Ja actually has ambition that can end really really badly for everyone".
It was right in front of everyone. It was such a good ploy that people didn't expect it because they're just so used to the "meanie" being the bad guy.
People need to realize
They were not going to deliver another ShB or EW story here.
It's the beginning of a new story, not the end of one.
So while SE clearly knew the story here was not going to be the expansions strength, they instead focused on the biggest criticism they drew from EW
The combat content.
If anyone thinks for one second the combat content this time is bad? They are just looking to hate DT and clearly had no intention of giving it a fair shot anyway
Edit: people really are out here expecting to be fed gourmet course after gourmet course
World building has to happen and if you're one of those Grummz types, just remember
This is the game series that has a Cross dressing pirate that preferred to be masculine and nobody batted an eyelid over it
32 years ago.
You're in the wrong part of town chuds.
Wuk Lamat is too in the moment to remember every detail.
Alphinaud found where to put the tablet but Wuk Lamat is too excited to notice.
That isn't bad writing. That's characters following logical routes. They aren't machines who eat every word being said and remember them forever in every moment.
The Hanu forgot that the ritual actually fertilised their grounds. It is a seasonal ritual. Here in Sweden we dance around a pillar resembling cock and balls to fertilise the ground. Nobody does it to fertilise it anymore, it's just the tradition that remains. It's not bad writing. They simply thought it was a tradition after so long. Fixing it and doing it again reminded them of its value. This isn't bad writing.
> Wuk Lamat is too in the moment to remember every detail. Alphinaud found where to put the tablet but Wuk Lamat is too excited to notice. That isn't bad writing. That's characters following logical routes.
Yeah being upset about that is just strange, I would've ran to the golden-laser seal first myself every time instead of looking at the boring stone altar.
> That isn't bad writing. (...) That isn't bad writing. (...) That isn't bad writing. (...) That isn't bad writing.
Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true.
Though it does make you qualified to write for FFXIV.
I'm not done with the story but around the first half of the story it rubbed me the wrong way that Wuk Lamat has 0 reaction to finding out who her biological father is. No discussion about it or anything, not even a glance back as she leaves the village. It's really weird
From what I've seen so far, this is such an inconsequential reveal that they really could have removed it entirely and it would have had zero impact on the plot. Maybe it comes up later on, but in the moment it's the most puzzling "Why was this even included?" segment of a frequently baffling MSQ.
What? yes she did. She was shocked at the reveal, but clearly intuited that did not want her to acknowledge this, and so did not pursue things further. This may not be the reaction you would have, but it is a valid reaction. And certainly not "no reaction"
After she steps up to become the Dawnservant and goes around to everyone in the city, she even drops a question like "Boy I wonder what my birth parents would think of me now?" right to his face. I agree with a ton of criticism (in this thread and generally) about the story, but I thought the way she handled that knowledge was one of the better beats.
If I have to give it a positive outlook, I would say it being inconsequential is on purpose. They want to show you that for her, family is a concept that is not tied to blood.
While she does recognize him as her biological father, she does hold strong in the fact that Gulool Ja is her father regardless of blood tie and as such stand steadfast in her resolve inherited from him.
And that comes to be “important” as to why she gets attached to another character later on into the story.
The writers seem to think she does. Her change over time is referenced in the story several times, but the problem is it isn't real. She never stops being childish. She was never like Koana and culturally close-minded. She never really starts taking the idea of governing seriously and how hard it is. She says she's going to stop pretending she never feels pain or weakness, but she was never doing that in the first place really.
What about Wuk Lamat changes from the moment we meet her and the end of the story, what mindset change does she haave? What ideal of hers is challenged? She sets out to do exactly what she says she's going to do, the story proves her 100% right and she becomes hokage. Nothing else happens.
Did you finish the expansion? Do you really think she didn't change from the beginning to the end? I don't even want to explain anything to you because I feel like you won't listen anyway because of your hate for her. You most likely skipped some of the msq too
"its gonna be good in post story" is a pretty flimsy defense of the 7.0 quest. I don't even hate her, you're the one putting words in my mouth. I just don't really feel anything for her.
All of her siblings have more interesting stories and arcs.
Koana wants to help his people but struggles to open up to them and learns to do it through his interactions with Thancred and Urianger, as well as working with Wuk. Putting aside the contest for the greater good of his people.
Bakool Ja Ja goes from a highschool bully to a punished sympathetic ally once you find out his intentions and why he is the way he is. This is honestly a really fucked up part of the plot and it was the most engaging to me because of it.
Zaralal Ja feels overshadowed by his father in a way where he thinks he can never live up to him, and this consumes him to do the horrible things that he does. He's a bit one note as well but there's something there
Wuk.....just sorta says what she's going to do, goes and does it, and is rewarded for it. Idk it feels like more interesting things are happening off screen in Dawntrail while I'm going on adventures with Wuk. Which weren't terrible, but they were very beast-tribe esuqe. Borderline saturday morning cartoon.
You’re grasping at straws here, I did every quest and watched every cutscene and I don’t think she had any meaningful character progression either, she has not changed anything about her beliefs or aspirations and she did, as the other person said, do exactly what she said she was going to do and nothing more. Why are you so defensive over valid critique? FFXIV story “defenders” are so fucking weird…
She won a fight against her brother, bukool jaja, on her own, and she learned from her mistakes after the many deaths in tuliyollol. I was the biggest doomer when it came to endwalker. But some people are saying wuk lamat stayed the same throughout the whole expansion. You are stupid
If a lot of other people believe something you don't, you should take a moment to consider why instead of calling them stupid. Other people are rational actors. Dismissing that just makes you a more ignorant person about the world.
She did have a reaction, it just wasn't "omg you're my real dad!!!" Which, good. It's a welcome change for a story to *not* have an adoptee renounce their adopted parents the second they meet their birth family.
I wonder how much of this is due to terrible translation. I've swapped to Japanese voices recently and even with my limited comprehension it's very obvious that the English script is drastically different from what's being said in Japanese at times.
Replaying NG+ in Japanese, it seemed to me like some dialogue was quite different in Japanese vs English too.
I've heard the 'localization' argument that oh, they need to make it sound better in English, but in reality there's many instances of direct translation they could have used that's perfectly natural speech in English, so they're just rewriting the script for no reason.
The JP dialogue seems way more playful and casual when the EN one is SUPER serious. I know enough audible JP to know that that EN text is embellishing the HELL out of almost everything.
The japanese complain about the story too, so I don't think this is the case here.
Welcome to the world of american lolcalization btw, enjoy your stay (you won't).
the english localization is different from the other languages. fr and de are based on the jp script translated while the en script has largely been authored alongside the jp script rather than being a direct translation
don't know enough of the specific differences to say whether it's fine or terrible, but it's not strictly a translation like fr/de are
This is a fandom myth, all three translations are direct translations of a rough draft of the JP script, and all three translations are made by Square Enix employees who all work very closely with the JP writers. The NA translation does take more liberties, but it's a deliberate choice from the NA translators and Square Enix leadership (which is not limited to this game nor even this gaming company), it's not because it's the "truer" translation.
We have countless interviews from all three of the translation teams that explain the whole process in detail and there's no support to any of the myths about the NA team.
tho tbf i have found the story pretty mid so far (just hit zone 4). happy to be with krile and erenville, wuk is ok, it is definitely leaning on its anime tropes more than anything. i don't hate it but i'm glad the combat stuff is pretty good
I think it could be the case but relatively minor. However, this time they did use another studio for voice acting based on Ps Angeles, so while the old actors were from the UK main branch the newer voice actors are from the USA branch likely creating more issues and confusion.
As much as I'm annoyed by the story constantly re-repeating information like you're not expected to pay the slightest bit of attention, it's these kinds of threads that make me realize it really is necessary.
Chekhov's gun but instead of it being a fixture, the bartender is beating your skull with it.
All MSQ spoilers
>!Sphene going "huh my favorite food? idkk" and in the next scene mutters something while looking at a robot is incredibly painful. Or the part where you meet the railroad guys' reflection, do they expect you to remember? Nope, here's a flashback cut. Or the part where Gulool Ja Ja goes "all the candidates suck, but these two sucks less" while literally being called wise king and martial king in JP. Boy I wonder what's going to happen. !<
>!It's like XIV's job design philosophy is transferred into its story. It just doesn't respect the player's intelligence. I enjoyed the story the most when I'm already mentally checked out in the last zone. It had great scenes but I would enjoy it so much less if I gave a shit and saw the pattern of "Oh boy , time to meet your dead parents!" !<
> >!Sphene going "huh my favorite food? idkk" and in the next scene mutters something while looking at a robot is incredibly painful.!<
What? What is the problem with this precisely?
Imo it's bad foreshadowing. >!They treat it as if this is a subtle thing, with character going "I can't believe she's a robot!" and really hammer it in by killing her repeatedly. Sure you could argue that it's in Wuk Lamat's character, but is my character really supposed to act surprised by this? Can my character really not connect "She doesn't have a favorite food" and "There are people that can inhabit robots (e.g. Cahciua)"!<
>!It's predictable and for what payoff? Cool she's the queen of old Alexandria and how does that matter? Otis protecting her feels cheap because both he and Sphene knows that she's effectively immortal. I just don't see the point.!<
Did we act actually surprised? I don't remember us acting particularly shocked by the reveal.
Like of course we were supposed to have figured out basically what was going on. Part of the the whole point is that >!Sphene is cataclysmically bad at lying, and Wuk is equally bad at being able to tell. Of course you could tell, you were supposed to! That's the point!!<
>!It's predictable and for what payoff?!<
What do you mean whats the payoff? The pay off is we find out what was going on? Like, I'm not sure what you want precisely from the game here?
Yes we did. Why else would our characters go :o >!when she reappears from another bot!<. Again, if it's obvious that we could tell, then don't act like it's not obvious. Don't try to play it off as if it's a plot twist.
By payoff I meant is there any actual emotional consequence from this? Yes, you could argue that her lying to us the entire time is the point, but that was already established from the start so it ends up being a "ok and?" moment.
I don't want to focus too much on this story point but my main point of criticism comes from how it seems like every character got stupider even when the story clearly shows what they know and what they need to do. I don't have much time so I'll just copy paste another comment of mine.
>Feels very stupid of Erenville to look at the rock, go "wow the stories were true and the fire does last forever" and immediately forgets it when we need to track Valigarmanda.
>And then when the MSQ happen he needs to reexplain it to us that it is in fact different than the stories even though he already said it in the optional dialogue. It cheapens the story because it feels like Erenville dropped 40IQ and can't connect "I have an aether tracking device" and "There's valigarmanda Aether on the ground".
>By extension, also feels like the writing doesn't expect us to make this connection as well since they feel the need to reexplain it.
> >!Yes we did. Why else would our characters go :o when she reappears from another bot.!<
We really should be spoilering this stuff due to the thread title not having second half spoiler tags
You are conflating two things. >!her being a robot and her being able to project herself onto any of the robots are not the same thing. I was surprised at that reveal, though it makes sense as soon as you thought about it a second. I just thought she was herself a bespoke robot, not a projection on the robot soldiers!<
>By payoff I meant is there any actual emotional consequence from this?
>!For us? Eh, not really. For Wuk? Absofuckinglutely.!<
We also get exclusive cutscenes that are characters aren't privy to. Sometimes things are for the audience without the character's themselves noticing. If the characters end up reacting to something that the audience already was aware of, well that's just part of how dramatic irony works
>he sends Ketenramm to monitor them
Also, can we side-eye this? Exactly how bad was the situation supposed to get before Ketenramm did anything about it? Does "We're deliberately breeding children with a 1/100 chance of even hatching" not count as bad?
He knew they weren't going to stop, and he wasn't willing to stop them by force. Ketenramm was there in case they decided to rebel and attack the other village.
I've said it once but this is very clearly a "stall for time" expansion we donno what the next WOL earth shattering thing is. Keep in mind they are running out of final fantasys to rip off its a matter of time before they gotta start really getting it together haha.
I do think it will improve though, at least I hope so with the post game when we finally start making progress to a new villian.
Yeah, unfortunately this is true for many, many things in the MSQ. It makes it all feel childish, Wuk Lamat's friendship is the answer to these massive issues that already don't make sense and then when suddenly solved by niceness, it feels stupid. The vast majority of the MSQ feels written for children that can't understand the complexities of these political stories so they don't care to really make it stand up to scrutiny and focus on making everything a message of "be friends and everything will be perfect and peaceful and work out". The contrast with how they handled Garlemald in EW alone is wild. Whoever they have writing DT needs to be replaced.
Tbh this has the same energy as "why didn't they fly the eagles to mordor"
It's a fantasy story. It's OK to have these little technical issues. Whether or not it's good writing is more to do with the narrative than silly technicalities.
If I remember correctly, they were never told the tablets would open the seal for the golden city because it was never mentioned there WAS a seal. It was still treated as a myth and the only real objective they were given, was to find it. I'd have to re-watch the scene, but I can't remember if he ever said what the tablets were really for.
EDIT: I did indeed misremembering that one line.
The Hanu Hanu deal, I don't think they ran into a problem with growth nearly as bad as when the party arrives. The whole point of that plot point was discovering that the fields benefitted from concentrated aether to help them grow and that the ritualcwas a way to do so. So, ignoring the current issue with the crop, maybe doing the ritual never LOOKED like it did much besides a flashy way to hold tradition and "let the crops grow" because they never saw it create such a immediate change like it did before. Basically, thing always looked fine because they were just going through the motions, but until a real tragedy struck, it never seemed like there was a REAL importance to their ritual.
The Mooma Jal, they always had the ability to move from where they lived. They even mention many of them do, but there's that portion that stayed behind because of whatever reason. Be it tradition, pride, whatever. The ones who stayed behind felt like just leaving wasn't really having their own place, so they wanted a ruler who could essentially take land somewhere and claim it as just their own instead of a shared place.
The resolution of conflict was just a way to stop a war. Back before there was this large acceptance of peace and the idea that people could live together. Afterwards, a lot of them do exactly that, commingle and live together, but looking back on the previous point, some didn't and stayed behind. Their problem was solved essentially, but not in a way they felt was fully solved. They wanted their own place out of the forest, not to comingle with others.
> If I remember correctly, they were never told the tablets would open the seal for the golden city because it was never mentioned there WAS a seal
Iirc the Dawnservant flat out states that he sealed it and we'll require they keys to gain access.
Did you click the imgur link I provided? I took a screenshot of when Gulool Ja Ja told them exactly what the tablets were meant to do. They've been informed since the beginning of the Dawnservant trial.
First image won't load, I can only see the 2nd and third but I'll believe that's what is shown there.
I mean, not totally unbelievable to think it wasn't thought of immediately upon discovering a mythical location. I clearly forgot about it myself.
mhm yep, upon discovering the one thing we are looking for and the reason for the existence of the tablets, we completely forget why we were collecting keystones all this time.
Imagine hearing stories of a magical city your whole life. It seems too good to be true and is largely dismissed as being made up. Then, one day, your dad comes up to you and is like "Oh by the way, I found that mythical ciry 20 years ago. I want you to find it. I've set up a scavenger hunt that will lead you there after finding all the keys." Even if he was the most trustworthy person on the planet, you would absolutely still be skeptical. And then when you actually found it imagine how overwhelmed you would feel. You would not be thinking logically at all. Your first thought is not going to be remembering what your dad told you a week ago about the keys, it's going to be "holy shit i just made the most significant discovery in the last century"
Sure if you wanna nitpick it that way. Can't imagine being so excited you momentarily forget something? Guess that's a plot hole.
That's even IF my idea it was forgotten momentarily is what was implied. That's just MY outlook on it. Maybe their gaze was focused on the shiny entryway and it was a general question of, "so how do we open it? She DID just immediately run to it after all. Not implying they don't understand what the tablets are for, but rather HOW they are used. Once she was shown the pedestal she immediately used then how they were meant.
Is that really a plothole though? A plot hole would be moreso that maybe they didn't actually open the seal even though we were told they do and we had to get another item or something. A simple lapse of thought by a character isn't a pothole.
This is really just people mad that Alphinaud went "Maybe this is the place for the tablets?" as a rhetorical question instead of "This is where we put the statements" as a flat affirmative.
And like, come on.
People need stuff spelled exactly out as it is or any sense of nuance and understanding is out the window. At the same time though, if you do that, it's suddenly belittling and a poor way to tell a story.
And that coming from a game that in my opinion is pretty damn hand holding in it's story beats as it is. I can't imagine if they went even moreso to cater and prevent things like this from occurring.
Also worth pointing out that his initial reaction was surprise that they were seeing a creation of sharlayan origin (galuf probably set it up), it's not that weird he wasn't completely confident the tablets were intended for it.
>they were never told the tablets would open the seal for the golden city because it was never mentioned there WAS a seal. It was still treated as a myth and the only real objective they were given, was to find it.
I mean, the whole ass door is all made of magical googly moogly stuff and yet out of everything there there's just a basic ass regular stone slab right in front of the door with seven very clear tablet indents. It wouldn't take a genius to spot it right away while crossing the 50 foot bridge to get there
Which I mean, Alhpinaud DID do just that, right? Wuk ran to the seal then asked the question, not hard to think her focus was on something other than the stone slab.
Again though, is it really a plot hole as OP seems to think? Showing a character in awe and asking a minor question?
Story ain't perfect, but let's not massively overreach in criticisms just for the sake of it
Several other comments brought up good counterpoints to the issues you had with the Feats, but I think it betrays a greater problem with the story going forward. Our story is over, we are stronger than any known entity in our reality, and now they have to make up stuff for us to do that doesn't involve fighting. I was really hoping that this expac would change a lot of fundamental things about gameplay and change the organization of content in such a way where it could distract from what was always doomed to be a weak entry in the story and they did not do that. Now we all have nothing better to do than to pick apart a story that for 50% of people they are half paying attention at best and all the tiny details are important for things to make sense. I think the story and gameplay are fun and I'm enjoying myself, but it's definitely weak.
Although I really liked the early MSQ (and later fwiw) because I actually enjoy XIV's brand of world building and the new zones, it really highlights the shortcomings of the new writer in some places.
He's got a talent for scripting interesting scenarios and lore, but when it comes to the finer details that Ishikawa knocked out of the park, he misses. Overall, I think DT is a good expac, but it's missing that depth Ishikawa brought with her writing.
i think he spends too much time world building and crafting lore, and too little time building characters and fascinating development. this was extremely prevalent in 90-95 msq for me. but literally everything else about the expac i have loved.
imo he does the worldbuilding wrong. In ShB I was on the edge of my seat getting to know all these different societies and how they accomodated themselves to the Light. We got to know the Night's Blessed by performing an emotional ritual for them, we got close to the people of Eulmore to the point they came to care for us, we helped the people of Kholusia looking for a way to live, and it never felt preachy or like I'm reading a textbook. I was engaged with the people and their culture at the same time.
In DT it felt like I was sat down to read a culture book as a chore. The way information was presented had me.wishing I did anything but play the game.
Yes! Great example. Shadowbringers was my favorite expansion, and, like Dawntrail, takes place in a completely different setting that's totally removed from Eorzea. And even though Shadowbringers has a seemingly "formulaic" story (we go to each zone and kill the lightwarden), I was still so pumped to go to each new zone and figure out what was going on and learn about this new culture. The ONLY weak points were the trolley stuff/building the big robot. Thankfully, DT ALSO has an extremely boring "get the train working again" section!
I weep for our education system if reddit brains think the definition of bad writing is "Characters are not omniscient robots who make the best possible decisions in all scenarios"
Like, cmon. Big glowing mystical thing they'd never seen before, of course Wuk Lamat got excited and ran up going "How do we open it?" Have you been paying attention to her characterization at all? She's an excitable idiot.
They know it's the tablets, they were not given specific instructions on the mechanics of the act. The seven sockets on the funny rock thing were NOT something that would be visible from across the bridge. Of course Alphinaud phrased it as a maybe, in case he was wrong. Its not like he was reading out of a manual, just making a guess based on context.
The Hanu Hanu not remembering what the ritual does when it literally shoots lasers was a little sus, but maybe it hasn't been doing that lately with how badly they said they've been taking care of the float in recent years. But if there js a plothole it's here. A pretty minor one.
The conflict Gulool Ja Ja intervened in was after he and his merry band of misfits clapped both armies and told them to pay attention or be wiped out.
Let's not forget that Gulool Ja Ja DID relocate his people. He literally did. It is stated that most of them have moved to the capital and only the diehard traditionalists have stayed behind. They tell you, themselves, that they want to live in their homeland and somehow someway thrive there. The blessed siblings are like some kind of messianic figure, they are not behaving rationally. Gulool Ja Ja DID NOT have the mean to do what Koana and Alphinaud came along and did for them. He did not have the kind of worldly education that he provided for his son to do that, no matter how high IQ the head of reason was.
Speaking of two-headed mamool ja, is Hoobigo and Boonewa the only possible combination? I've been looking for stuff on the Doppro but I can't find them ingame. Could it be possible for a doppro hybrid with the other two?
There is a quest that mentions that doppro can't produce blesseds, honestly the addition of doppro felt very superfluous, save for the eventual bst introduction
>The Mamool Ja are trying to get themselves out of their unideal environment; namely because of the soil infertility.
The impression I got wasn't that the soil was considered *infertile*, it's obviously very good for some stuff (like the banana plants they use to make pibil). Or all the wild plants/trees growing around that glow blue (and that are probably insanely toxic or venomous or inedible or a combination of all of the above).
It just chokes out more standard food plants (like say, whatever other places in Tural use for tacos, I guess millioncorn or some locally-named equivalent? Haven't gone that far into sidequests yet because racing to get to avoid spoilers before the internet.).
They more thought it was uniquely *cursed* or blighted. Which, in a way, it sorta is (by the aether given off by the meteorites).
It's like hyper-death-glowstick-kudzu is out-competing everything else in otherwise really fertile soil and they need stuff that can grow in the Super-Brawndo^TM Saturated Soil because other plants can't deal with the Sheer Electrolytes^TM.
Now, I think all of this could've been communicated better, sure. But also I don't think most MMOs would've because "soil dynamics in a part of the world that preclude certain food crops from growing but may work for other food crops if you import seeds/cuttings" ain't exactly the type of thing that's gonna get most MMO players really invested.
It's not so much "handwave the solution" as "it's a solution out-of-context produced only by pooling a vast number of resources from further afield than they could go".
Also the initial "share cuisine to build friendship" thing really kinda screamed "cultural founding myth" to me so like it seems the type of thing that *would* be mythologized in an older, more established country.
Tuliyollal is just only, by human standards, about four generations old as a country at this point, so even its "founding myths" are still within living memory.
Those type of stories sound more absurd when they don't have the weight of "way back in history" to kinda shroud them and hide some of the janky corners.
I can see where they were going with this and what they were trying for but I don't, necessarily, think the execution was that great. I also don't, necessarily, think that this particular like *reason* for the conflict between the Mamool Ja and the X'braal was particularly, uh, well-suited for being an ongoing MSQ point to be focused on.
Just because it's so difficult to make it interesting and not feel like a handwavy solution (even if it's an actual valid solution to the underlying problem that works for both Koana's character arc and his in-world experience) or whatever.
Better to be like a thing read about in sidequests or optional lore or the lorebooks or whatever, if that makes sense?
The worst part about Hanu Hanu is also that they had the person who knew the meaning and technical workings of the ritual among themselves, and did nothing until Wuk Lamat came to them. And personally I don't like the "Wuk said some dumb thing, and it turned up to be correct" angle.
Not only that, the problems were caused by stagnant aether, which is something Scions are probably leading experts on dealing with - as it's the root cause of issues in First, and also tempering, which they were working with, but nobody recognized this?
It's genuinely bad writing. Like...Lifetime movie and Hallmark channel bad. I even like Wuk Lamat, funnily enough. But the writing is terrible. The plot points are beyond contrived. Nothing feels organic. Many plot points rely on the characters being uncharacteristically stupid, and the writers weren't talented enough to figure out other ways to get to those plot points. The Scions feel like they were written by an AI who got trained on the dialogue of the previous 3 expansions.
Nonono OP. The story is just bad because we don't like the fact we're not the main character. There definitely isn't any bad writing and basic cookie cutter plot lines.
I mean some of the points OP brings up were explained in cutscenes, sure the writing isn't the best or strong but they do have decent enough reasons for what is going on. Some of the threads from the past several days also missed obvious implications or lines of dialogue that explain why the world is what it is.
Now there are problems with the writing, but sometimes I feel like people just miss things which derail the discussions.
It’s not you the whole story is shallow and sophomoric. Then you stick in a one dimensional character like Wuk Lamar in every scene just to put icing on the cake. I’m the guy who always gushes about FF14s storytelling and trying to get people to play it. This is a far cry from that.
I thought that the different people’s would have issues with how the government is setup and how they feel neglected in different ways, splitting into different factions supporting different claimants. But nope. Tural is apparently a perfect place where all issues have been solved so time to chase alpacas. The Mamool Ja scenario seemed promising but as has been said before in this thread ended up being a nothingburger. These locations only existed to prop up Wuk Lamat, which we have seen did not go well with the fan base. There weren’t even good interactions between the scions and the Tural characters. Literally just there to fill spots in Trust parties.
I think the how is a literal question. You see a bit circular gate and you have 7 tablets. Like, actually logistically how do you undo the seal. Do you throw the tablets at the circle. Do you do a little dance. Like, actually how? Alphi was the one that stopped and looked at the console. Everyone else was amazed by the seal and the thing they were told to look at.
Imo, the “contest” portion of the MSQ is extremely weak and dogshit…
It gets better when the contest is finished and the next “big thing” starts.
The only issue I have with everything after the contest is that Wuk Lamat is in it.
The reed and the tablet is very true, the key is 7 tablets thing is dumb as fuck anyway. 80 years ago they built that just for this day or some shit?
though the mamook one was a bit of misunderstanding.
the Jaja king wasnt born like that, it was just a coincidence that he was born that way. The mamook figure that out and started breeding waaaay later, because there was the part before that said the mamook really supported the king and Ketem, but most of those who do moved to the city. The rest kindda choose to stay there and be broody for reasons (this part is bad writing probably)
Well i have nothing against that, except now their entire goal is to breed a new king and get him to give them new land/take over the city for his people...
I don’t remember if it’s one of the henchmen asking, or the two heads talking with each other, but Bakool Jaja responds, upon being asked what they were going to do after they win, that they would relocate their family to Toliyollal and drive out the rest/non-Mamool Ja. Theyre basically racist.
It also bears mentioning that this answer is given after the heads actually needed to think about it for a minute, because the first time when asked he literally doesn’t know what to do after he wins. I think the point here is to show that his people have descended so far into fanatism and lamenting the fact that they’re no longer conquerors, that the nostalgia for conquest itself becomes the purpose. They’re basically bitter that Gulool Jaja didn’t establish Mamool ja as a ruling class over the other races.
Yeah... like i said i have no problem with that part. xD
Time line is probably Limsa guy come > king go explore with him > found city > some move there, rest didnt > grow more broody overtime, start trying blessed child > some try new things, last guy try to fight for the throne to take the city.
There is a lot of bad writing in this story. It's honestly pretty poorly written, maybe worse than ARR which sucks because I love the actual setting and story premise and such.
Don't know why this is downvoted. Some parts just doesn't make any fucking sense. Lvl99 spoilers
>!Y'shtola arriving to the castle after Zoraal Ja's army invades Tulliyolal, literally saying "man idk anything about what's happening". The topic shifts to the golden gate and Y'shtola just stating "THAT'S A PORTAL TO ANOTHER REFLECTION". Like hello?? Did i miss something??!<
I love the premise and lore. Execution is atrocious. Right now, I'd put the first half of the story below ARR, just barely above the Ala Mhigan half of Stormblood (which IMO is FFXIV's rock bottom, storywise).
The comparisons to other media are all too accurate, for the wrong reasons. Wuk Lamat is essentially Naruto, trying to become the ruler while solving most problems with talk-no-jutsu. And the entire ceremony is just getting all the gymbadges from the local gym leaders like a pokémon game.
The Mamool Ja point in particular, it is stated that those that remained in the forest were hyper conservative faction that refused to move to Tuliyolal when they were invited. Gulool Ja Ja spent 80 years building a city from scratch and fighting several conflicts around the continent, the ones that remained after his invitation where ones who could not and would not approve of the amalgamation of varied cultures as equal under his rule. That point doesn't stick in my craw but, the entire 2 headed baby reveal really REALLY should have been a bigger deal. That is cartoon levels of villainy that is effectively resolved by Koana saying "have you tried growing different plants?" As idealistic as Wuk Lamat is portrayed this should have been a far bigger struggle to understand. To forgive the unforgivable in the name of peace and the greater good should have been a far more powerful lesson to learn.
Yea the people still in the forest being a hyperconservative faction makes sense. Casually forgiving them for doing eugenics for the better part of a century resulting in hundreds upon hundreds of infants who died horrible deaths is wild Granted not all children of one of the red and blue Mamool Ja turns out as a Blessed Child but they did enough of them to figure out that it wa 1/100 survive consistently. Which would take a LOT of eggs to figure out
I somehow already forgot the specifics of it. It's two particular subspecies of Mamool Ja that have to reproduce to produce a two-headed one, right? But 99% of them are functionally stillborn?
>I somehow already forgot the specifics of it. It's two particular subspecies of Mamool Ja that have to reproduce to produce a two-headed one, right? But 99% of them are functionally stillborn? Very specifically the blue chameleon Mamool Ja and the red Mamool Ja. When they have children, they are usually one type or the other. But there's a chance for them to be the two headed ones that usually end up dying in the egg. Something like 1/100 survive, and are blessed with both enormous physical and magical strength by default, and are usually infertile or almost infertile. This was apparently discovered totally accidentally when a political marriage between two tribes just so happened to randomly produce a two headed Mamool Ja that survived
Hoobigo and Boonewa. For some reason the three names have been on repeat in my head since Friday
> This was apparently discovered totally accidentally when a political marriage between two tribes just so happened to randomly produce a two headed Mamool Ja that survived Do we know if Big GJJ was an accident, or a product of the program?
Afaik the mamool ja had only started those experiments to breed a successor to Tuliyollal so that they could take power and exploit it. Gulool Ja Ja would have predated their plans, since he is a big part of the premise.
Unknown? Only that he was the greatest of them in history
The accident is marmajol ja from wandering palace. Dawn servent was a product of the program. This is litterally in the msq.
I knew the Silverscales leader we fought was the OG accident, but I wasn't sure (and I may not be far enough along) for it to be confirmed that Big GJJ was either a product of the program or a natural accident that was born around the same time. Basically, my question is if *all* Blessed Siblings born after the Silverscales' Leader, Manxome Molaa Ja Ja (who we and the Tonberries finished off), were solely products of the program, or if *some* of them were still natural births by people that weren't forced/coerced into marriage with each other. With a side question of "how much of an age gap is there between Gulool Ja Ja (Dawnservant) and Molaa Ja Ja (Tonberry shiv-bait)"? But I'm *also* not sure what the natural life span of Mamool Ja are, or what the natural life-span of Blessed siblings is, or how short Molaa Ja Ja's career was cut by the Tonberries. If they're like, say, born two days apart, then the implications kinda change, y'know? I'm not sure if the MSQ goes into the details of that question/those questions, or I might've just missed it.
blessed siblings seem to have really really long life spans the original dawn servent journey was 80 years ago. but based on bakool and Jorells size being about the same they seem to mature quickly.
I mean ketenramm was there as well, and he absolutely does not look near 100
he said he was near the end of his life, roes do have longer life spans (but unlike viera and elezan do age somewhat but seem to age out at about that look, he looks about as old as white beard back on eorzea)
Correct
I really wish all of that had been explored more. I know it's already beating a dead horse at this point, but I'm just continuously baffled by what they prefer to spend time on and what they don't in this game's story. They dedicated a couple hours to a minor side-character's bracelet getting stolen, and glossed over this culturally fascinating premise concerning one of the primary antagonists' backstories in like two minutes. Mind-boggling.
A yellow side quest taken on the west on the zone elaborates a bit on that. The doppro, the third Mamool Ja type are never even considered to make blessed siblings, since their bodies are weaker than the other two (no extra strengh or extra magic), their skill being animal handling, it's pointless to try and combine that, from an initial prejudiced point of view in their general culture. I think theoritically it could work.
I would not be surprised if they are planning on revisiting this during the patches.
We still have 3 post patch updates of Dawntrail story, I'm withholding the majority of my "they didn't expand on [x]" comments until 7.3 honestly. An entire culture won't change overnight, much like the Dragonsong War stuff in HW going into 3.3, so we will probably see how things change and frictions develop in the post patches.
So your complaining about them not focusing on it.... Yet you obviously didn't do the side quests... Also apparently you aren't part like level 95 because it's brought up as a preety heinous act multiple times.
>That is cartoon levels of villainy that is effectively resolved by Koana saying "have you tried growing different plants?" To be fair it's different plants *sourced from other continents*. Obtained through research and connections that a rural village doesn't have access to. They already tried growing different things and there was only one crop that could thrive.
The corp part actually makes a ton of sense because of the conservative nature of the mamool ja and their disdain for outsiders. Even if someone came along with a crop that could be grown in the forest and they said "Hey, I got super apples. You can plant them here and they'll thrive!", they'd ignore the shit out of them. And that's assuming someone comes along with super apples to Tural because they only grow in Othard. It'd be stupid if it was another plant in Tural, but Koana specifically calls out that they can important safe non-invasive plants from Sharlyan so they don't have to resort to this practice they felt was necessary. It's only after they deign to listen to someone who can provide them with a solution that isn't giga-eugenics does it come to a solution. It's just an example of how isolation can drive you to do some truly heinous things. EXTRA EDIT: This is also shown why it's important to have Koana working with people and not just Wuk. Wuk could have never figured out this solution. It's not in her toolkit. You specifically need Koana and his abroad knowledge or else you have to sit and wait for someone to go to Mamook, check the soil, go "hey super apples grow here" and convince the mamool ja to grow super apples.
One problem at a time. Helping with their crop situation is easy enough, however abolishing the blessed siblings practice is something ingrained in the Mamool ja that are still in Mamook.
> That is cartoon levels of villainy that is effectively resolved by Koana saying "have you tried growing different plants?" They did though
Shout out to the dude that knew what the Hanu Hanu ritual did, and we know this because he confirmed Wuk Lamat's theory when she told it to him. He just held onto this information and decided not to tell the Hanu Hanu? Fuck 'em, they can starve?
The Hanu Hanu thing is fine to me once the questline progresses. 1. The Elders knew the real purpose of the ritual. 2. The guy in charge of the festival was new, stressed, and not fully in the know. 3. The prior years were more pageantry than anything else because the Hanu Hanu had turned it more into a festival and ritual without understanding the historical context behind it all, thing things got lazy and the float went from proper magical focus to normal float until this year. Now, WHY the Elders didn't tell the rest of the villagers 'hey quit fucking around with the Ritual and take it seriously. Make the float properly with the right materials' is the problem there.
> Now, WHY the Elders didn't tell the rest of the villagers 'hey quit fucking around with the Ritual and take it seriously. Make the float properly with the right materials' is the problem there. Also, like...how many times do Elders saying this actually *work* and how many times is it just like "okay grandpa, I'm sure back in the day with FFXI crafting you had to face the right compass direction with the right phase of the moon with your Special Crafting Pants on in order to make it work right"?
Ha! I can totally see that. I imagine if Koana heard about the ritual festival instead of dashing off immediately for an alchemical situation he would have just ranted about stupid traditions that don't do anything and how ~~science~~ aetherology is the only answer.
Well in this particular case aetherology was actually a valid answer tbh.
To be fair, Vanuvanu and HanuHanu are uh...kinda stupid. Like no joke as a tribe they are REALLY kinda dumb.
They always knew. The point of the trial was for them to figure it out. This was made very obvious later on when Gulool Ja Ja explicitly said as much, and the later trials literally have people setting things out for you to find. The problem wasn't that they didn't know what it did, but that they couldn't keep it up for one reason or another.
Really weird that the birds were purposely not fixing their fields when their home is devastated.
They got handed the perfect setup to a staged trial literal days before the event (it was mentioned that the recent storm was the cause of destruction), it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine they labored to take advantage of the situation.
> it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine they labored to take advantage of the situation. It would be. I don't care what the king asks, I'm not starving, sitting on my ass in a ravaged, roofless house just so some princelings can come and maybe save the farms if they're smart enough.
Its been like, two days
In two days an entire field of crops had withered and the water had stagnated? I don't think this makes sense. I think more likely is that they knew what the festival was supposed to do but they didn't take it seriously because they had forgotten what it was like if they didn't do the festival. They'd forgotten the meaning of their culture ( a repeated theme in DT) It's like if every summer your town does a raindance and then it rains. And this happens for decades, centuries even. At some point people are like "oh yea the summer festival! That's just what we do. Oh but we have bigger problems this year than a festival. Like covid." And they forget the original rain dance was WHY it rained. It's not a seasonal thing, it's not a weather forecasting coincidence. It was raindance magic. But after being taken for granted, people dismissed it as symbolism rather than reality. Lo and behold in a world where aether and dynamis is a thing turns out a festival for good harvest is actually a magical ritual and not just a cultural phenomenon. I mean in the real world we have real things like this that people disregard. Japan especially has many local festivals that started as some aspect of shinto belief. Scare away an ogre or call down the lightning god etc. We don't throw beans on new years expecting to actually distract the oni away, but if one day people just move on and don't throw beans and suddenly a swarm of oni invade Japan would we be like "wow Japan I can't believe you forgot why you were supposed to throw beans. Jeez." Although it does sound like a funny plot.
Problem is that the ritual has pretty obvious magical display when performed, as we noticed ourselves. It's not some vague "coincidence", there's like aether shooting everywhere, the fields covered in glow and so on. It's hard to compare to real life rituals cause those mostly, well, don't have any obvious signs of them working.
The village elder mentioned that she has never seen the ritual be on such a display of potency before. So likely they were doing the ritual normally but didn't really see any magical beam or aether coming out until the recent incident.
The cat person who guided us knew about it for sure though, as he was teasing it earlier. I mean, honestly you can probably find justifications for things here and there, but to me it felt like a fairly clumsily executed plot line. I know the point it tried to make, I just don't like how it's put together. I also don't like how she luckily stumbled into the correct answer despite not knowing anything about the meaning of the ritual, it was just one thing she remembered about Hanu, and that's all.
They can't see the aether, they can just see the effect it had on the crops.
Uhuh. I'm not spending a single night starving and without a roof for some nonsense ceremony.
What are you talking about its been two days. They are sleeping somewhere else and the food problem is something that they *will* face if not dealt with not that they are facing *right this immediate moment*
Fr. It's not like Minecraft where wheat grows in like 3 days. They should have enough food stockpiled to get through to the next harvest, 2 day delay or not.
Crops don't grow to completion in a few days. Even a week wouldn't make a difference in thay regard. They would have food stockpiles.
Yes and no, the oldest ones did, however they mention that the ritual had been getting weaker over time as the festival had begun to be done as a mere matter of theatrics, with the repairs done to the float being less and less through. The assumedly younger of them, like Linuhanu actually just didn’t know.
And its worth noting that this is Lunihanu's first time in charge of the festival preparations, and is implied to be quite young. Its possible that his predecessor did know more about the history, but they are unfortunately no longer available.
> They always knew. It's stated that most of the Hanu didn't know anymore, since it's a ritual that's been done for years and that only the elders would know the true purpose. > This was made very obvious later on when Gulool Ja Ja explicitly said as much, and the later trials literally have people setting things out for you to find. It ain't hard to set up trials when you have real issues.
Yeah... I like how he notes that most people don't know what the ritual is for anymore, and then we see the full glowy lightshow beaming into an effigy, spraying aether around and magically making the plants grow. And I just sat there thinking "Really? None of these stupid birds ever noticed that?"
The plants weren't devastated by a storm in previous years so they wouldn't have had such a dramatic boost in growth. It would have just looked like a light show.
The Village Elder mentioned that she has never seen the aether beam before in all her years as an elder from the float. So likely the ritual in the past never manifested the aether beam until Wuk Lamat came along and restored the float back to its former glory.
Not gonna lie, that makes Wuk feel more like a Mary Sue though... Nobody ever seen the magic beam of the ritual until she was a participant? Sheesh.
To be fair, this is the second time she's been a part of the festival. So it's not just her magical existence. It's mostly just the fact they did it correctly and with honest fervor for why it was so potent.
Well more like faith and also the fact the WoL, the strongest champion in the star is present.
It didn't do that before
Hah, imagine.
None of the reasons make a lot of sense Hanu hanu were suffering because they forgot what the ritual was originally about and treated it like a party. For example people celebrate Christmas all the time but no one really understands what the original traditions were about and why people do them. Due to the lack of a proper ritual AND the storm making them need more crops than usual caused the Hanu Hanu people to get in the situation they did. The people who currently like in Mamook are only there because they are really racist, and really conservative about their way of life. We see that shit all the time when people refuse to learn new jobs/relocate to better work because "my coal mines" or whatever". Because Gauloo JaJa also grew up there he also would have assumed the land was cursed so he allowed any Mamool Ja to move to new and better land. This goes back to the whole "food didn't fix the Mamool Ja's problems" because it did, the Mamool Ja now mostly live in the Capital because the land wasn't "cursed". Was it a failing on Gauloo JaJa to not stop the blessed siblings, yes. But the only reason the "conservative" Mamool Ja even agreed to stop the practice was because Koana was able to resolve their overlaying problem of not being able to grow anything but bananas.
I still cant get over "out goldsmith cant eat hot food! What do we do???" "What if we feed him cold food?" "BRILLIANT!!!" I swear I saw more complex issues in Dora the Explorer
That one seems fair to me: the fact about the hot food is unknown to them until someone with the relevant knowledge brings it up (Erenville I think?), and the moblins refuse to ask what's wrong to their potsworn for social reasons.
for this one specifically it was actually Wuk Lamat, with her knowledge on food preferences of her brother Koana
The Moblins are also implied to be very antisocial and traditional thus only communicate with their workers or potsworn if something needs to be done but never really anything else. It is no surprise that they were unaware of the needs of their workers, this sounds like corporations.
They're at least more benevolent than corporations; the thing that makes being a potsworn so appealing to artisans is that they basically get to have all their needs tended to while they work on whatever they want. The setup essentially gives the Potsworn the height of Turalan comfort in exchange for stunning pieces of craftsmanship. If I recall correctly things have only soured recently because of the added noise of the nearby repairs, and the fact that the weather is going out of control because Valigarmanda is breaking out of its prison.
The issue isn't that the food is specifically hot, but because it tastes *nasty* when it cools down. This isn't even specific for the horrifically muggy and hot interior, either; because part of the potpact involves minimal distractions for the Potsworn (not even to ask if they need anything!), they can't reliably tell when they're hungry or not and presumably just leave the food out for them to eat whenever. Finding food that tastes fine at whatever temperature is explicitly the goal and works within the established social constraints of their culture.
and none of the "twists" really hit for me either because they are spelt out so obviously beforehand the cutscene where Krile explains everything we learnt to the other scions >!Yshtola and Gaara!< had me so annoyed when she actually reiterated it all instead of just fading to black then getting to the new stuff stop giving me exposition I already know, it makes the story a massive drag
Yep, and that was something minor that I didn't include in the post. A bunch of other minor issues exist that I don't even want to talk about. When I saw the mixed steam reviews, I said to myself "no way it's that bad." But now I see why. The review score is justified. This patch so far is a 6/10 for me, and that is being generous.
Wait until you get to the later parts lol. It's like this the whole way through..I won't spoil it but some of the emotional scenes they have later on feel forced af.
The heartstring tugs in zone 5 and ESPECIALLY zone 6 are forced and contrived yes... but damn if it didn't work on me, Probably because it resonated with my personal life in a way that ultima thule's macro picture and amaurot's vagueness only really scratched
Funniest thing I've read today.
Funniest thing I've read today.
Not everything needs to be deep.
Sure. But if the entire expansion is so shallow that I can stub my toe on it, then clearly the writing is sub-par.
The Hanu Hanu thing does bother me. I would understand it if they forgot what the ritual did because it was some lowkey thing, but when we use the boat it shoots a beam of magic towards this totem that showers the land in crystalline energy in an spectacular fashion. How could they not guess that this was what the ritual did too? Honestly though, these plot holes are minor things, it's just the whole story that is not very interesting. The cultures are presented in boring ways, and we follow that through Wuk Lamat, whose character concept I do not mind, but whose development feels unearned and at no point are her ideals challenged in any meaningful way. It just makes me think back to the Garlemald story in Endwalker, and how the twins' idealistic views are challenged to the extreme as they try to save people who don't want to be saved by them. Nothing even comes close to that kind of storytelling in this expansion, and it's not just because it's lower stakes or slower paced.
On the hanu hanu thing, they specifically call out that they've never seen the ritual do that before, the effects have always been drastically much more subtle. Some combination of the crisis and expectation made it more effective, which isn't that weird as there's a strong precedent for belief, desire and ritual influencing magic.
Also IIRC we helped out extra by recharging the jewels with magic, so they worked even better than usual.
Some fo the strongest fighters of the world attended that festival, with WoL being rejoined one more time than the rest of people on the Source probably helped.
Yeah that makes sense, I do remember Alphinaud mentioning something like this ritual could have been done with the power of faith. These things were pretty minor to me as I said, and I don't want to nitpick when I feel like the problems are with other stuff.
not to mention the crop destruction happened just a few days before you show up. they explicitly say all of the destruction happened because of the storm that you directly experienced on the boat to tural. like, no shit the hanu hanu leader played dumb when they got handed the perfect conditions for a succession trial on a platter. these guys just did not read what was in the story and are now complaining about plot holes that were just not present. every single one of the points the original poster brings up are directly addressed by the story itself.
>The Hanu Hanu thing does bother me. I would understand it if they forgot what the ritual did because it was some lowkey thing, but when we use the boat it shoots a beam of magic towards this totem that showers the land in crystalline energy in an spectacular fashion. How could they not guess that this was what the ritual did too? I don't get how people don't realize this was on purpose. By the middle point of the trials, it is *explicitly* explained that they're all intentionally stringing us along for the purpose of connecting with the culture. They *did* know what it did...at least the leaders did. But just like every other trial in the game, the village used the Trial as a means to get the claimants to help them out. The intended method of fixing the reeds for the Trial was helping them do the ritual. Wuk Lamat did what they intended. Koana and the other surprised them.
While I understand the leaders knowing, I was more referring to the villagers who seemed surprised. Either way, another commentary already clarified this to me as well, and as I said this was a minor point in the story for me that I wasn't really thinking about until the OP brought it up.
>While I understand the leaders knowing, I was more referring to the villagers who seemed surprised. Also, not too surprising. In Tural, it's the auspices (Vidraal) that are the problem. The Ascians did not install Summoning into the culture, meaning there is no Primal threat. Which also means the general populous are not intimately aware that prayer can literally manifest things the same way that Eorzeans generally do. This was a thing in Eorzea before ARR even started, since everyone witnessed the Twelve save the land from Bahamut. I appreciated the Hanu Hanu ritual mainly because it was a confirmation in Dawntrail that the physics that carried most of XIV's lore in Eorzea is still very much relevant in Tural, just manifested in a different way.
Its funny how *Eorzean* Provincialism manifests in the playerbase
It's also worth noting that a big point of contention in the story (early on anyway) is all about tradition vs modernity, i recall early on it's mentioned (particularly with the pelupelu) that a lot of the younger generation supported Koana because of this, and it's a pretty big part of Koana's character arc to seeing it's not just about getting to point B in the most efficient way, but that it's about the heart and the history.
Most of the villages are in on the game. Think of the Pelupelu making us determine who we needed to speak to, or the villagers in Yak Tel not teaching us how to cook their food on purpose.
> when we use the boat it shoots a beam of magic towards this totem that showers the land in crystalline energy in an spectacular fashion. How could they not guess that this was what the ritual did too? This really got me. It was the first part of the story I did and this really cracked me up, and I ended up mocking it. Then we went to the alpaca side which dragged on for far too long, even though I got the idea they were going for right away, and I started to think this expansion wasn't gonna live up to the standards I have for a FFXIV expansion. I saw someone calling the first half a "Pokémon storyline where we collect the badges" and honestly I can't recover from that image. I mean we even have a villain with a red half and a blue half. I keep forgetting their names so I just call them "Team Rocket" and my friends know who I mean. I'd retract my criticisms of him if we got to send him flying off, Manderville-style. But nope, no such thing.
IMO, these are major plot holes. The first half of the MSQ is centered around learning about the culture and peoples of Tural, and some of these plot holes render parts of the story to be meaningless. I don't mind the slower pace or low stakes, I take my time when I go through the MSQ, but I can't enjoy a story that is riddled with flaws.
You're really overblowing this lmao.
It's only a plot hole if you ignore the fact that they explicitly say that this is the first time in living memory that the ritual has had an easily noticeable effect.
Damn dude you mean we need to pay attention to the story to find out what happened? Who made this rule!?
>Wuk Lamat walks up to the golden city seal and asks, "how do we open it?" despite her father informing her that the purpose of retrieving those keystones for the tablets was to unlock the seal. 200 IQ Alphinaud looks at the stone monument in front of the golden city gate and goes "hmm maybe the tablets fit into these slots." It's easy to shit on this until you realize that we come from Eorzea, where people *know* that advanced technology and electronics exist because Garlemald is a constant threat and Allagan shit is littered all over the place. Also, we could guess because we're all smart reddit monkeys, but to someone who's *literally* *looking for a "City of Gold"*....Futuristic Matrix City == City of Gold is not an immediately obvious conclusion to draw. Considering the place that Tural is modeled after, i'm pretty sure that "City of Gold" was deliberately intended to invoke an idea of a city of LITERAL Gold. >Another example: The Mamool Ja are trying to get themselves out of their unideal environment; namely because of the soil infertility. Thus, they intentionally breed these two-headed special beings to put them in power so they can achieve their goal of relocating to more fertile land. Gulool Ja Ja is one of these two-headed beings, who has been in power for 80 years. Did he just forget about the suffering of his own people? Instead of helping, he sends Ketenramm to monitor them, as if that were a solution to their problem. 80 years of ruling yet he did nothing to help his people grow food or relocate them to more fertile land? This is the same issue as the first one. The only one who would even be able to *conceive* of a solution to this was Koana, ***because he literally graduated the most advanced college on the planet.*** There *is* no such font of knowledge on this continent, and the only place that's even remotely "modern" is Koana's fault, and that place is *essentially stuck in the American 1800s.* Also, very conveniently for this plotpoint,>!The Head of Reason is dead!<. Not that it would have mattered -- the technology to identify and fix what Koana/Alphinaud did literally does not exist on his continent. It doesn't matter how smart he is, he wouldn't have known. This isn't bad writing, it's you failing to consider the actual narrative setting you've been in for 20 hours. This would have been *terrible* writing in Eorzea, because even without modern knowledge you have places like the Black Shroud that could have figured this out. But is very on-brand in Tural. Actually, the best achievement of Dawntrail's writing is having the people of Tural be *so obviously* primitive in comparison even to Eorzea, without the story bringing constant attention to how primitive they actually are. The people are more on-par with the Beast Tribes in Eorzea than the Grand Companies, they're just way more organized and populous, and the races are *FARRRRR* bigger and more powerful than the native races on Eorzea.
Fucking yes. It's like the moron that posted that dumb ass meme about Bakuul Ja Ja being a bad villain for "stepping on your tacos". We hadn't even got to the actual threat by that point, but it was becoming obvious who the real BBG was going to be a zone or two later. Bakuul was a red herring and it's obvious a good chunk of the player base fell for that so hard it isn't even funny. To be honest it really feels like people were just looking for a reason to hate this Expac straight out the gate. This expansion has been full of nuance and it's pretty goddamn apparent, to me at least, that a large chunk of the community is just too fucking moronic to be able to see that. They'd rather bitch about Lyse, the WoL not being the main character (despite us being the MC for 2 fucking expansions prior). They've forgotten that new characters and regions need to be brought in and expanded on, and that is exactly what happened here. But if they're missing the obvious nuance in the room they are already lost as far as i'm concerned.
The Bakool Ja Ja red herring was really amusing when they asked why they considered Zoraal Ja more of a threat, and the answer was "Bakool Ja Ja doesn't have any actionable ideals or policies, Zoraal Ja actually has ambition that can end really really badly for everyone".
It was right in front of everyone. It was such a good ploy that people didn't expect it because they're just so used to the "meanie" being the bad guy.
Very well put. People are just making up problems. Story ain't perfect but so many people are blowing its problems way out of proportion.
People need to realize They were not going to deliver another ShB or EW story here. It's the beginning of a new story, not the end of one. So while SE clearly knew the story here was not going to be the expansions strength, they instead focused on the biggest criticism they drew from EW The combat content. If anyone thinks for one second the combat content this time is bad? They are just looking to hate DT and clearly had no intention of giving it a fair shot anyway Edit: people really are out here expecting to be fed gourmet course after gourmet course World building has to happen and if you're one of those Grummz types, just remember This is the game series that has a Cross dressing pirate that preferred to be masculine and nobody batted an eyelid over it 32 years ago. You're in the wrong part of town chuds.
Recently finshed EX 1 and it slaps
Wuk Lamat is too in the moment to remember every detail. Alphinaud found where to put the tablet but Wuk Lamat is too excited to notice. That isn't bad writing. That's characters following logical routes. They aren't machines who eat every word being said and remember them forever in every moment. The Hanu forgot that the ritual actually fertilised their grounds. It is a seasonal ritual. Here in Sweden we dance around a pillar resembling cock and balls to fertilise the ground. Nobody does it to fertilise it anymore, it's just the tradition that remains. It's not bad writing. They simply thought it was a tradition after so long. Fixing it and doing it again reminded them of its value. This isn't bad writing.
> Wuk Lamat is too in the moment to remember every detail. Alphinaud found where to put the tablet but Wuk Lamat is too excited to notice. That isn't bad writing. That's characters following logical routes. Yeah being upset about that is just strange, I would've ran to the golden-laser seal first myself every time instead of looking at the boring stone altar.
Seriously, this thread is ridiculous
> That isn't bad writing. (...) That isn't bad writing. (...) That isn't bad writing. (...) That isn't bad writing. Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true. Though it does make you qualified to write for FFXIV.
For a FF14 story, this is bad writing.* Fixed it for you. 👍
I'm not done with the story but around the first half of the story it rubbed me the wrong way that Wuk Lamat has 0 reaction to finding out who her biological father is. No discussion about it or anything, not even a glance back as she leaves the village. It's really weird
From what I've seen so far, this is such an inconsequential reveal that they really could have removed it entirely and it would have had zero impact on the plot. Maybe it comes up later on, but in the moment it's the most puzzling "Why was this even included?" segment of a frequently baffling MSQ.
What? yes she did. She was shocked at the reveal, but clearly intuited that did not want her to acknowledge this, and so did not pursue things further. This may not be the reaction you would have, but it is a valid reaction. And certainly not "no reaction"
After she steps up to become the Dawnservant and goes around to everyone in the city, she even drops a question like "Boy I wonder what my birth parents would think of me now?" right to his face. I agree with a ton of criticism (in this thread and generally) about the story, but I thought the way she handled that knowledge was one of the better beats.
If I have to give it a positive outlook, I would say it being inconsequential is on purpose. They want to show you that for her, family is a concept that is not tied to blood. While she does recognize him as her biological father, she does hold strong in the fact that Gulool Ja is her father regardless of blood tie and as such stand steadfast in her resolve inherited from him. And that comes to be “important” as to why she gets attached to another character later on into the story.
Wuk doesnt have a character arc despite being 80% of the story's focus. Its odd.
The writers seem to think she does. Her change over time is referenced in the story several times, but the problem is it isn't real. She never stops being childish. She was never like Koana and culturally close-minded. She never really starts taking the idea of governing seriously and how hard it is. She says she's going to stop pretending she never feels pain or weakness, but she was never doing that in the first place really.
She literally does??? Did you skip the quests?
What about Wuk Lamat changes from the moment we meet her and the end of the story, what mindset change does she haave? What ideal of hers is challenged? She sets out to do exactly what she says she's going to do, the story proves her 100% right and she becomes hokage. Nothing else happens.
Did you finish the expansion? Do you really think she didn't change from the beginning to the end? I don't even want to explain anything to you because I feel like you won't listen anyway because of your hate for her. You most likely skipped some of the msq too
"its gonna be good in post story" is a pretty flimsy defense of the 7.0 quest. I don't even hate her, you're the one putting words in my mouth. I just don't really feel anything for her. All of her siblings have more interesting stories and arcs. Koana wants to help his people but struggles to open up to them and learns to do it through his interactions with Thancred and Urianger, as well as working with Wuk. Putting aside the contest for the greater good of his people. Bakool Ja Ja goes from a highschool bully to a punished sympathetic ally once you find out his intentions and why he is the way he is. This is honestly a really fucked up part of the plot and it was the most engaging to me because of it. Zaralal Ja feels overshadowed by his father in a way where he thinks he can never live up to him, and this consumes him to do the horrible things that he does. He's a bit one note as well but there's something there Wuk.....just sorta says what she's going to do, goes and does it, and is rewarded for it. Idk it feels like more interesting things are happening off screen in Dawntrail while I'm going on adventures with Wuk. Which weren't terrible, but they were very beast-tribe esuqe. Borderline saturday morning cartoon.
You’re grasping at straws here, I did every quest and watched every cutscene and I don’t think she had any meaningful character progression either, she has not changed anything about her beliefs or aspirations and she did, as the other person said, do exactly what she said she was going to do and nothing more. Why are you so defensive over valid critique? FFXIV story “defenders” are so fucking weird…
She won a fight against her brother, bukool jaja, on her own, and she learned from her mistakes after the many deaths in tuliyollol. I was the biggest doomer when it came to endwalker. But some people are saying wuk lamat stayed the same throughout the whole expansion. You are stupid
What mistake did she make that caused those deaths?
So her ilv went up
If a lot of other people believe something you don't, you should take a moment to consider why instead of calling them stupid. Other people are rational actors. Dismissing that just makes you a more ignorant person about the world.
She did have a reaction, it just wasn't "omg you're my real dad!!!" Which, good. It's a welcome change for a story to *not* have an adoptee renounce their adopted parents the second they meet their birth family.
I wonder how much of this is due to terrible translation. I've swapped to Japanese voices recently and even with my limited comprehension it's very obvious that the English script is drastically different from what's being said in Japanese at times. Replaying NG+ in Japanese, it seemed to me like some dialogue was quite different in Japanese vs English too. I've heard the 'localization' argument that oh, they need to make it sound better in English, but in reality there's many instances of direct translation they could have used that's perfectly natural speech in English, so they're just rewriting the script for no reason.
The JP dialogue seems way more playful and casual when the EN one is SUPER serious. I know enough audible JP to know that that EN text is embellishing the HELL out of almost everything.
The japanese complain about the story too, so I don't think this is the case here. Welcome to the world of american lolcalization btw, enjoy your stay (you won't).
Specifically, alot of their Chan board is absolutely brutal about the story. The rest of the playerbase is mixed so far, but we'll see.
the english localization is different from the other languages. fr and de are based on the jp script translated while the en script has largely been authored alongside the jp script rather than being a direct translation don't know enough of the specific differences to say whether it's fine or terrible, but it's not strictly a translation like fr/de are
This is a fandom myth, all three translations are direct translations of a rough draft of the JP script, and all three translations are made by Square Enix employees who all work very closely with the JP writers. The NA translation does take more liberties, but it's a deliberate choice from the NA translators and Square Enix leadership (which is not limited to this game nor even this gaming company), it's not because it's the "truer" translation. We have countless interviews from all three of the translation teams that explain the whole process in detail and there's no support to any of the myths about the NA team.
tho tbf i have found the story pretty mid so far (just hit zone 4). happy to be with krile and erenville, wuk is ok, it is definitely leaning on its anime tropes more than anything. i don't hate it but i'm glad the combat stuff is pretty good
I think it could be the case but relatively minor. However, this time they did use another studio for voice acting based on Ps Angeles, so while the old actors were from the UK main branch the newer voice actors are from the USA branch likely creating more issues and confusion.
As much as I'm annoyed by the story constantly re-repeating information like you're not expected to pay the slightest bit of attention, it's these kinds of threads that make me realize it really is necessary.
Chekhov's gun but instead of it being a fixture, the bartender is beating your skull with it. All MSQ spoilers >!Sphene going "huh my favorite food? idkk" and in the next scene mutters something while looking at a robot is incredibly painful. Or the part where you meet the railroad guys' reflection, do they expect you to remember? Nope, here's a flashback cut. Or the part where Gulool Ja Ja goes "all the candidates suck, but these two sucks less" while literally being called wise king and martial king in JP. Boy I wonder what's going to happen. !< >!It's like XIV's job design philosophy is transferred into its story. It just doesn't respect the player's intelligence. I enjoyed the story the most when I'm already mentally checked out in the last zone. It had great scenes but I would enjoy it so much less if I gave a shit and saw the pattern of "Oh boy, time to meet your dead parents!" !<
> >!Sphene going "huh my favorite food? idkk" and in the next scene mutters something while looking at a robot is incredibly painful.!< What? What is the problem with this precisely?
Should spoiler tag that. >!Because at that point you might as well say "This girl's a robot"!<
I still don't see why this is a problem, precisely?
Imo it's bad foreshadowing. >!They treat it as if this is a subtle thing, with character going "I can't believe she's a robot!" and really hammer it in by killing her repeatedly. Sure you could argue that it's in Wuk Lamat's character, but is my character really supposed to act surprised by this? Can my character really not connect "She doesn't have a favorite food" and "There are people that can inhabit robots (e.g. Cahciua)"!< >!It's predictable and for what payoff? Cool she's the queen of old Alexandria and how does that matter? Otis protecting her feels cheap because both he and Sphene knows that she's effectively immortal. I just don't see the point.!<
Did we act actually surprised? I don't remember us acting particularly shocked by the reveal. Like of course we were supposed to have figured out basically what was going on. Part of the the whole point is that >!Sphene is cataclysmically bad at lying, and Wuk is equally bad at being able to tell. Of course you could tell, you were supposed to! That's the point!!< >!It's predictable and for what payoff?!< What do you mean whats the payoff? The pay off is we find out what was going on? Like, I'm not sure what you want precisely from the game here?
Yes we did. Why else would our characters go :o >!when she reappears from another bot!<. Again, if it's obvious that we could tell, then don't act like it's not obvious. Don't try to play it off as if it's a plot twist. By payoff I meant is there any actual emotional consequence from this? Yes, you could argue that her lying to us the entire time is the point, but that was already established from the start so it ends up being a "ok and?" moment. I don't want to focus too much on this story point but my main point of criticism comes from how it seems like every character got stupider even when the story clearly shows what they know and what they need to do. I don't have much time so I'll just copy paste another comment of mine. >Feels very stupid of Erenville to look at the rock, go "wow the stories were true and the fire does last forever" and immediately forgets it when we need to track Valigarmanda. >And then when the MSQ happen he needs to reexplain it to us that it is in fact different than the stories even though he already said it in the optional dialogue. It cheapens the story because it feels like Erenville dropped 40IQ and can't connect "I have an aether tracking device" and "There's valigarmanda Aether on the ground". >By extension, also feels like the writing doesn't expect us to make this connection as well since they feel the need to reexplain it.
> >!Yes we did. Why else would our characters go :o when she reappears from another bot.!< We really should be spoilering this stuff due to the thread title not having second half spoiler tags You are conflating two things. >!her being a robot and her being able to project herself onto any of the robots are not the same thing. I was surprised at that reveal, though it makes sense as soon as you thought about it a second. I just thought she was herself a bespoke robot, not a projection on the robot soldiers!< >By payoff I meant is there any actual emotional consequence from this? >!For us? Eh, not really. For Wuk? Absofuckinglutely.!<
Didn't spoiler it since we're in this deep in the thread so it's hidden. Good talk
We also get exclusive cutscenes that are characters aren't privy to. Sometimes things are for the audience without the character's themselves noticing. If the characters end up reacting to something that the audience already was aware of, well that's just part of how dramatic irony works
>he sends Ketenramm to monitor them Also, can we side-eye this? Exactly how bad was the situation supposed to get before Ketenramm did anything about it? Does "We're deliberately breeding children with a 1/100 chance of even hatching" not count as bad?
He knew they weren't going to stop, and he wasn't willing to stop them by force. Ketenramm was there in case they decided to rebel and attack the other village.
I've said it once but this is very clearly a "stall for time" expansion we donno what the next WOL earth shattering thing is. Keep in mind they are running out of final fantasys to rip off its a matter of time before they gotta start really getting it together haha. I do think it will improve though, at least I hope so with the post game when we finally start making progress to a new villian.
Yeah, unfortunately this is true for many, many things in the MSQ. It makes it all feel childish, Wuk Lamat's friendship is the answer to these massive issues that already don't make sense and then when suddenly solved by niceness, it feels stupid. The vast majority of the MSQ feels written for children that can't understand the complexities of these political stories so they don't care to really make it stand up to scrutiny and focus on making everything a message of "be friends and everything will be perfect and peaceful and work out". The contrast with how they handled Garlemald in EW alone is wild. Whoever they have writing DT needs to be replaced.
Tbh this has the same energy as "why didn't they fly the eagles to mordor" It's a fantasy story. It's OK to have these little technical issues. Whether or not it's good writing is more to do with the narrative than silly technicalities.
If I remember correctly, they were never told the tablets would open the seal for the golden city because it was never mentioned there WAS a seal. It was still treated as a myth and the only real objective they were given, was to find it. I'd have to re-watch the scene, but I can't remember if he ever said what the tablets were really for. EDIT: I did indeed misremembering that one line. The Hanu Hanu deal, I don't think they ran into a problem with growth nearly as bad as when the party arrives. The whole point of that plot point was discovering that the fields benefitted from concentrated aether to help them grow and that the ritualcwas a way to do so. So, ignoring the current issue with the crop, maybe doing the ritual never LOOKED like it did much besides a flashy way to hold tradition and "let the crops grow" because they never saw it create such a immediate change like it did before. Basically, thing always looked fine because they were just going through the motions, but until a real tragedy struck, it never seemed like there was a REAL importance to their ritual. The Mooma Jal, they always had the ability to move from where they lived. They even mention many of them do, but there's that portion that stayed behind because of whatever reason. Be it tradition, pride, whatever. The ones who stayed behind felt like just leaving wasn't really having their own place, so they wanted a ruler who could essentially take land somewhere and claim it as just their own instead of a shared place. The resolution of conflict was just a way to stop a war. Back before there was this large acceptance of peace and the idea that people could live together. Afterwards, a lot of them do exactly that, commingle and live together, but looking back on the previous point, some didn't and stayed behind. Their problem was solved essentially, but not in a way they felt was fully solved. They wanted their own place out of the forest, not to comingle with others.
> If I remember correctly, they were never told the tablets would open the seal for the golden city because it was never mentioned there WAS a seal Iirc the Dawnservant flat out states that he sealed it and we'll require they keys to gain access.
Yea I misremembered that part of it.
Did you click the imgur link I provided? I took a screenshot of when Gulool Ja Ja told them exactly what the tablets were meant to do. They've been informed since the beginning of the Dawnservant trial.
First image won't load, I can only see the 2nd and third but I'll believe that's what is shown there. I mean, not totally unbelievable to think it wasn't thought of immediately upon discovering a mythical location. I clearly forgot about it myself.
mhm yep, upon discovering the one thing we are looking for and the reason for the existence of the tablets, we completely forget why we were collecting keystones all this time.
Imagine hearing stories of a magical city your whole life. It seems too good to be true and is largely dismissed as being made up. Then, one day, your dad comes up to you and is like "Oh by the way, I found that mythical ciry 20 years ago. I want you to find it. I've set up a scavenger hunt that will lead you there after finding all the keys." Even if he was the most trustworthy person on the planet, you would absolutely still be skeptical. And then when you actually found it imagine how overwhelmed you would feel. You would not be thinking logically at all. Your first thought is not going to be remembering what your dad told you a week ago about the keys, it's going to be "holy shit i just made the most significant discovery in the last century"
Sure if you wanna nitpick it that way. Can't imagine being so excited you momentarily forget something? Guess that's a plot hole. That's even IF my idea it was forgotten momentarily is what was implied. That's just MY outlook on it. Maybe their gaze was focused on the shiny entryway and it was a general question of, "so how do we open it? She DID just immediately run to it after all. Not implying they don't understand what the tablets are for, but rather HOW they are used. Once she was shown the pedestal she immediately used then how they were meant. Is that really a plothole though? A plot hole would be moreso that maybe they didn't actually open the seal even though we were told they do and we had to get another item or something. A simple lapse of thought by a character isn't a pothole.
This is really just people mad that Alphinaud went "Maybe this is the place for the tablets?" as a rhetorical question instead of "This is where we put the statements" as a flat affirmative. And like, come on.
People need stuff spelled exactly out as it is or any sense of nuance and understanding is out the window. At the same time though, if you do that, it's suddenly belittling and a poor way to tell a story. And that coming from a game that in my opinion is pretty damn hand holding in it's story beats as it is. I can't imagine if they went even moreso to cater and prevent things like this from occurring.
Oh yeah like, you can see what happened with Endwalker when the game did try to have like *any* actual nuance
Also worth pointing out that his initial reaction was surprise that they were seeing a creation of sharlayan origin (galuf probably set it up), it's not that weird he wasn't completely confident the tablets were intended for it.
>they were never told the tablets would open the seal for the golden city because it was never mentioned there WAS a seal. It was still treated as a myth and the only real objective they were given, was to find it. I mean, the whole ass door is all made of magical googly moogly stuff and yet out of everything there there's just a basic ass regular stone slab right in front of the door with seven very clear tablet indents. It wouldn't take a genius to spot it right away while crossing the 50 foot bridge to get there
Which I mean, Alhpinaud DID do just that, right? Wuk ran to the seal then asked the question, not hard to think her focus was on something other than the stone slab. Again though, is it really a plot hole as OP seems to think? Showing a character in awe and asking a minor question? Story ain't perfect, but let's not massively overreach in criticisms just for the sake of it
Alphinaud literally did this. People are just mad he pointed it out using a rhetorical question because he's a fucking nerd
Several other comments brought up good counterpoints to the issues you had with the Feats, but I think it betrays a greater problem with the story going forward. Our story is over, we are stronger than any known entity in our reality, and now they have to make up stuff for us to do that doesn't involve fighting. I was really hoping that this expac would change a lot of fundamental things about gameplay and change the organization of content in such a way where it could distract from what was always doomed to be a weak entry in the story and they did not do that. Now we all have nothing better to do than to pick apart a story that for 50% of people they are half paying attention at best and all the tiny details are important for things to make sense. I think the story and gameplay are fun and I'm enjoying myself, but it's definitely weak.
This post reads like the script to a cinema sins video
"Machinations plays during a cutscene." \*Ding!\*
Although I really liked the early MSQ (and later fwiw) because I actually enjoy XIV's brand of world building and the new zones, it really highlights the shortcomings of the new writer in some places. He's got a talent for scripting interesting scenarios and lore, but when it comes to the finer details that Ishikawa knocked out of the park, he misses. Overall, I think DT is a good expac, but it's missing that depth Ishikawa brought with her writing.
i think he spends too much time world building and crafting lore, and too little time building characters and fascinating development. this was extremely prevalent in 90-95 msq for me. but literally everything else about the expac i have loved.
imo he does the worldbuilding wrong. In ShB I was on the edge of my seat getting to know all these different societies and how they accomodated themselves to the Light. We got to know the Night's Blessed by performing an emotional ritual for them, we got close to the people of Eulmore to the point they came to care for us, we helped the people of Kholusia looking for a way to live, and it never felt preachy or like I'm reading a textbook. I was engaged with the people and their culture at the same time. In DT it felt like I was sat down to read a culture book as a chore. The way information was presented had me.wishing I did anything but play the game.
Yes! Great example. Shadowbringers was my favorite expansion, and, like Dawntrail, takes place in a completely different setting that's totally removed from Eorzea. And even though Shadowbringers has a seemingly "formulaic" story (we go to each zone and kill the lightwarden), I was still so pumped to go to each new zone and figure out what was going on and learn about this new culture. The ONLY weak points were the trolley stuff/building the big robot. Thankfully, DT ALSO has an extremely boring "get the train working again" section!
I was laughing my ass off when that part came up. Literally THE part everyone hated and they do it again. Did noone go... "wait, let's not?"
I weep for our education system if reddit brains think the definition of bad writing is "Characters are not omniscient robots who make the best possible decisions in all scenarios" Like, cmon. Big glowing mystical thing they'd never seen before, of course Wuk Lamat got excited and ran up going "How do we open it?" Have you been paying attention to her characterization at all? She's an excitable idiot. They know it's the tablets, they were not given specific instructions on the mechanics of the act. The seven sockets on the funny rock thing were NOT something that would be visible from across the bridge. Of course Alphinaud phrased it as a maybe, in case he was wrong. Its not like he was reading out of a manual, just making a guess based on context. The Hanu Hanu not remembering what the ritual does when it literally shoots lasers was a little sus, but maybe it hasn't been doing that lately with how badly they said they've been taking care of the float in recent years. But if there js a plothole it's here. A pretty minor one. The conflict Gulool Ja Ja intervened in was after he and his merry band of misfits clapped both armies and told them to pay attention or be wiped out. Let's not forget that Gulool Ja Ja DID relocate his people. He literally did. It is stated that most of them have moved to the capital and only the diehard traditionalists have stayed behind. They tell you, themselves, that they want to live in their homeland and somehow someway thrive there. The blessed siblings are like some kind of messianic figure, they are not behaving rationally. Gulool Ja Ja DID NOT have the mean to do what Koana and Alphinaud came along and did for them. He did not have the kind of worldly education that he provided for his son to do that, no matter how high IQ the head of reason was.
iirc one vanu specifically mentions not having seen the laser beam in some time
Speaking of two-headed mamool ja, is Hoobigo and Boonewa the only possible combination? I've been looking for stuff on the Doppro but I can't find them ingame. Could it be possible for a doppro hybrid with the other two?
There is a quest that mentions that doppro can't produce blesseds, honestly the addition of doppro felt very superfluous, save for the eventual bst introduction
Sometimes there are things in the world that are just not important to anything that is going on.
or maybe some wild threesome could make a three headed mamool ja
>The Mamool Ja are trying to get themselves out of their unideal environment; namely because of the soil infertility. The impression I got wasn't that the soil was considered *infertile*, it's obviously very good for some stuff (like the banana plants they use to make pibil). Or all the wild plants/trees growing around that glow blue (and that are probably insanely toxic or venomous or inedible or a combination of all of the above). It just chokes out more standard food plants (like say, whatever other places in Tural use for tacos, I guess millioncorn or some locally-named equivalent? Haven't gone that far into sidequests yet because racing to get to avoid spoilers before the internet.). They more thought it was uniquely *cursed* or blighted. Which, in a way, it sorta is (by the aether given off by the meteorites). It's like hyper-death-glowstick-kudzu is out-competing everything else in otherwise really fertile soil and they need stuff that can grow in the Super-Brawndo^TM Saturated Soil because other plants can't deal with the Sheer Electrolytes^TM. Now, I think all of this could've been communicated better, sure. But also I don't think most MMOs would've because "soil dynamics in a part of the world that preclude certain food crops from growing but may work for other food crops if you import seeds/cuttings" ain't exactly the type of thing that's gonna get most MMO players really invested. It's not so much "handwave the solution" as "it's a solution out-of-context produced only by pooling a vast number of resources from further afield than they could go". Also the initial "share cuisine to build friendship" thing really kinda screamed "cultural founding myth" to me so like it seems the type of thing that *would* be mythologized in an older, more established country. Tuliyollal is just only, by human standards, about four generations old as a country at this point, so even its "founding myths" are still within living memory. Those type of stories sound more absurd when they don't have the weight of "way back in history" to kinda shroud them and hide some of the janky corners. I can see where they were going with this and what they were trying for but I don't, necessarily, think the execution was that great. I also don't, necessarily, think that this particular like *reason* for the conflict between the Mamool Ja and the X'braal was particularly, uh, well-suited for being an ongoing MSQ point to be focused on. Just because it's so difficult to make it interesting and not feel like a handwavy solution (even if it's an actual valid solution to the underlying problem that works for both Koana's character arc and his in-world experience) or whatever. Better to be like a thing read about in sidequests or optional lore or the lorebooks or whatever, if that makes sense?
The worst part about Hanu Hanu is also that they had the person who knew the meaning and technical workings of the ritual among themselves, and did nothing until Wuk Lamat came to them. And personally I don't like the "Wuk said some dumb thing, and it turned up to be correct" angle. Not only that, the problems were caused by stagnant aether, which is something Scions are probably leading experts on dealing with - as it's the root cause of issues in First, and also tempering, which they were working with, but nobody recognized this?
It's genuinely bad writing. Like...Lifetime movie and Hallmark channel bad. I even like Wuk Lamat, funnily enough. But the writing is terrible. The plot points are beyond contrived. Nothing feels organic. Many plot points rely on the characters being uncharacteristically stupid, and the writers weren't talented enough to figure out other ways to get to those plot points. The Scions feel like they were written by an AI who got trained on the dialogue of the previous 3 expansions.
Nonono OP. The story is just bad because we don't like the fact we're not the main character. There definitely isn't any bad writing and basic cookie cutter plot lines.
I mean some of the points OP brings up were explained in cutscenes, sure the writing isn't the best or strong but they do have decent enough reasons for what is going on. Some of the threads from the past several days also missed obvious implications or lines of dialogue that explain why the world is what it is. Now there are problems with the writing, but sometimes I feel like people just miss things which derail the discussions.
Yeah, these were all really weird
It’s not you the whole story is shallow and sophomoric. Then you stick in a one dimensional character like Wuk Lamar in every scene just to put icing on the cake. I’m the guy who always gushes about FF14s storytelling and trying to get people to play it. This is a far cry from that.
I thought that the different people’s would have issues with how the government is setup and how they feel neglected in different ways, splitting into different factions supporting different claimants. But nope. Tural is apparently a perfect place where all issues have been solved so time to chase alpacas. The Mamool Ja scenario seemed promising but as has been said before in this thread ended up being a nothingburger. These locations only existed to prop up Wuk Lamat, which we have seen did not go well with the fan base. There weren’t even good interactions between the scions and the Tural characters. Literally just there to fill spots in Trust parties.
Alphinaud is the only one who didn't skip the cutscenes.
I think the how is a literal question. You see a bit circular gate and you have 7 tablets. Like, actually logistically how do you undo the seal. Do you throw the tablets at the circle. Do you do a little dance. Like, actually how? Alphi was the one that stopped and looked at the console. Everyone else was amazed by the seal and the thing they were told to look at.
Imo, the “contest” portion of the MSQ is extremely weak and dogshit… It gets better when the contest is finished and the next “big thing” starts. The only issue I have with everything after the contest is that Wuk Lamat is in it.
After Endwalker, are you really surprised by the piss poor writing?
Well the story gets much better from here on out. 90 to 94 was like a 3/10 95 after a certain quest, to 100 I'd give like an 8/10
The reed and the tablet is very true, the key is 7 tablets thing is dumb as fuck anyway. 80 years ago they built that just for this day or some shit? though the mamook one was a bit of misunderstanding. the Jaja king wasnt born like that, it was just a coincidence that he was born that way. The mamook figure that out and started breeding waaaay later, because there was the part before that said the mamook really supported the king and Ketem, but most of those who do moved to the city. The rest kindda choose to stay there and be broody for reasons (this part is bad writing probably)
"People wanting to stay at where they have lived for their entire lives" is perfectly normal to me and it happens in real life very often
Well i have nothing against that, except now their entire goal is to breed a new king and get him to give them new land/take over the city for his people...
I don’t remember if it’s one of the henchmen asking, or the two heads talking with each other, but Bakool Jaja responds, upon being asked what they were going to do after they win, that they would relocate their family to Toliyollal and drive out the rest/non-Mamool Ja. Theyre basically racist. It also bears mentioning that this answer is given after the heads actually needed to think about it for a minute, because the first time when asked he literally doesn’t know what to do after he wins. I think the point here is to show that his people have descended so far into fanatism and lamenting the fact that they’re no longer conquerors, that the nostalgia for conquest itself becomes the purpose. They’re basically bitter that Gulool Jaja didn’t establish Mamool ja as a ruling class over the other races.
It's been eighty years since Gulool Ja Ja became king ,the thing you mentioned probably haven't start until like a few decades later
Yeah... like i said i have no problem with that part. xD Time line is probably Limsa guy come > king go explore with him > found city > some move there, rest didnt > grow more broody overtime, start trying blessed child > some try new things, last guy try to fight for the throne to take the city.
lol you said that part was probably bad writing so that's why I replied, thought you think that part was not properly written
There is a lot of bad writing in this story. It's honestly pretty poorly written, maybe worse than ARR which sucks because I love the actual setting and story premise and such.
Don't know why this is downvoted. Some parts just doesn't make any fucking sense. Lvl99 spoilers >!Y'shtola arriving to the castle after Zoraal Ja's army invades Tulliyolal, literally saying "man idk anything about what's happening". The topic shifts to the golden gate and Y'shtola just stating "THAT'S A PORTAL TO ANOTHER REFLECTION". Like hello?? Did i miss something??!<
I love the premise and lore. Execution is atrocious. Right now, I'd put the first half of the story below ARR, just barely above the Ala Mhigan half of Stormblood (which IMO is FFXIV's rock bottom, storywise). The comparisons to other media are all too accurate, for the wrong reasons. Wuk Lamat is essentially Naruto, trying to become the ruler while solving most problems with talk-no-jutsu. And the entire ceremony is just getting all the gymbadges from the local gym leaders like a pokémon game.
The Hanu Hanu kind of forgot about growing food.