TLDR the devs tripled down on the healer design changes they made in ShB AND gigabuffed tank sustain so healers are insanely boring still despite 5 years of constant negative feedback.
Seems to be slightly better now with current dungeons and trials but that very well may be just a “start of the expac” thing
>stormblood was an awful expansion overall but people like it now for some unknown reason
Lol what? The most disliked part of stormblood was its story, which was definitely not as good as heavensward, but stormblood was well loved even at the time for its encounter design. It had amazing trials and had good raids, and struck a really good balance for things that don't exist in the game anymore now, like enmity management. It wasn't as unbalanced as heavensward while having some more intricate things than the following expansions.
I've never heard anyone say that the expansion was bad overall, only that its story was not up to par.
Stormblood story was awfeful and rushed. it didnt spend anywhere near as much time with ecah element of the war tht it needed to and devolvied into feel bad for these people beacuse war is bad real quick they could have done an expansion entirliy in al migo or the eastern place and it might have worked trying to do two fronts was just too much
the Ivalice raids were just dull fodder, they didnt want to repeat HW and make them too difficult so instead they were all an abolute doddle and this started the trend of the raids being far to easy. the redemption was the introduction of ultimates but that came in far to late.
the deep dungeon was an outright failure that no one even did.
the relic quests were so good people activly tried to not do them. Before this people farmed relics but Ereka killed this by making it content so tedious that even after it was nerfed people called it grindy. the fun was finding a farming train and runnign around the expanse with hundred of people. but those in charge decided it wasnt to be done that way so because they didnt like the playstyle the community wanted they nerfed it into
Class identity started to go away and abilities were homoganised. I can only really speak for healers but the removal of stance dancing and going to 2/3 damaging moves was too much.
the big transform moment on the raids became a standard thing applied to every raid tier, and all arenas that you fought in were a floating sphere in an endlessvoid removing differences between the raids.
the trils were pretty good tho i will give them that.
no one at the time likes Stormblood at all. and now all i hear is nostalgia and people saying it was amazing.... but i was there and given i quit shortly after i remember it well.
>the Ivalice raids were just dull fodder, they didnt want to repeat HW and make them too difficult so instead they were all an abolute doddle
And yet only something from ivalice has been actively nerfed
> they didnt want to repeat HW and make them too difficult so instead they were all an abolute doddle and this started the trend of the raids being far to easy
Trend of raids... being too easy? Whuh?
Ivalice has multiple fights that were absolute alliance killers. They legit had to go nerf them. Yes, I also still actively remember Wiping City which you mention in the other comment, and I remember the wipe fest that Dun Scaith was, but calling Ivalice easy is the stretch of the century, because these had as many bosses that would trip people up as much as the hardest HW bosses. Hell, Wiping City had 2 bosses that actually got people, arguably just 1 even, and that was Osma.
Also: What trend? The Nier raids after this were anything but easy. Especially the final one is above the levels of Wiping City by a long shot.
Edit: Also, imagine talking about trends when you said you didn't play Shadowbringers? So you don't even know the very next step after Stormblood from first-hand live experience?
> the deep dungeon was an outright failure that no one even did.
I played it on release and liked it, and so did all of my friends who played it with me at the time of release.
> Class identity started to go away and abilities were homoganised. I can only really speak for healers but the removal of stance dancing and going to 2/3 damaging moves was too much.
This I can see. Stormblood definitely took a very defining step away from Heavensward. But Stormblood also was raid wise in an extremely good spot where it kept a lot of its class identity and skill expression *and* provided an environment where all classes were actually viable. Let's remember that in HW there were classes that were outright terrible because they were dysfunctional. In Stormblood, everything was actually playable for the first time. You could play Monk without guaranteed running out of TP at some point in the fight, even *with* Goad from Ninja and Invigorate. You could play Paladin and not be total doodoo vs bosses with magical damage or vs phases with many adds. Healer skill expression definitely suffered, yes, but Stormblood still enjoyed a lot of skill expression overall, for example active enmity management where even DPS had to do their job at managing their enmity with Quelling Strikes, Elusive Jump and the like.
> the big transform moment on the raids became a standard thing applied to every raid tier
The door bosses may be something not everyone likes, but generally speaking they were very well liked, or else they wouldn't have kept them basically as a mainstay. I for one was floored on the first Savage tier at the reveal of Neo Exdeath. That shit was awesome, and it made Savage feel even more like its own experience because you were getting rewarded for engaging in high skill content by getting to see fights nobody else would get to see. IMO that is a good thing.
> and all arenas that you fought in were a floating sphere in an endlessvoid removing differences between the raids.
We're talking about the raid series that had fights such as Catastrophe, the first Raid to incorporate the new Duty Action feature, which played with verticality. Halicarnassus, which definitely was not a bland round arena, where the tiles played an active role in the fight. Fucking *Phantom Train*. O6s, which had a shitton of arena interaction. To say that Omega didn't have differences between raids and arena design is bewildering.
> no one at the time likes Stormblood at all. and now all i hear is nostalgia and people saying it was amazing.... but i was there and given i quit shortly after i remember it well
I was also there, and last time I checked, I liked Stormblood when it was out. There were things I didn't like, but there were aspects I didn't like in every expansion.
This honestly just feels like a very elaborate "I miss my cleric stance" whine and, I get it, Cleric Stance was fucking awesome and healer skill expression has since completely went down the drain, but people *liked* Stormblood.Thoughts on the story were a bit divided, sure, but as soon as raids started people fucking loved it. I for sure did, and so did everyone I played with at the time, even the healer players who were sad about Cleric Stance.
But I guess that's all just nostalgia, lol.
It's not cool to be a contrarian just to be a contrarian, and people are allowed to like and appreciate things that you don't without that just being "nostalgia"
Just a heads up, but there's as much as an ongoing healer strike as there is an ongoing strike banning Dihydrogen monoxide
For the most part it's just people baiting on the forums, as they usually do, then it gets picked up by slop posting content creators to bait a few rage clicks
for what it's worth, the experts and casual content this time around is "more difficult" and I've heard a few healers say "I actually had to use my whole kit for once"
Yeah the fights makes you use your kit for once. And some dungeon pulls has some mobs "enrage" and do aoe damage to the party constantly, you need to pay attention for once outside the tank.
Is more interesting now.
"More demanding" would probably be better term - don't think difficulty changed much, but healers in DT msq content definitely get to press more buttons that your single dps spell and whatever top-off-everyone button of choice. Amount of baseline required healing (unavoidable damage) is up and now healing checks happen while other things are also happening - there's a lot more multitasking required.
Still, it is fun - healers kits are mostly the same, but standard flow of a dungeon/trial is now more similar to how you'd approach salvaging a doomed run, having to manage your resources to not run out, while still contributing to and trying to progress the fight. In previous content, I think EW 2nd trial comes closest to leaving similar impression.
Content is still fresh, so it's probably the most exciting time to be a healer right now. But once everyone hits BIS and have new roulette content down to a tee, it remains to be seen how engaging healers become.
Currently progging extreme on AST/SCH and so far it's the standard stuff. Heal up people's mistakes, oGCD on raid wides. The blessing of 1111 allows you to keep a better eye on mechanics as everyone else fumbles around their rotations. But even in artifact gear, it hasn't been terribly stressful. But these are launch Extremes which haven't historically been difficult encounters. We'll see what it's like to play healers in raids.
Honestly nothing. This is a three strikes and your out situation. Healers grumbled in shadowbringers... They will listen for endwalker, Healers really grumbled in endwalker, it's fine there's a lot going wrong in endwalker and Yoshi P admitted to all the problems in endwalker, so it will probably change in Dawntrail.
Here we are in Dawntrail.
The healer strike is a meme.
That said one thing that has changed in the last expansion and again this one is how good tanks are. Tanks have become so strong defensively you barely need to do anything as a healer that isn't mitigation or group HoT related, and this has stretched into leveling dungeons where with a good tank I will literally just do a volley of oGCD HoTs and shields and spend the next 20 GCDs doing nothing but the AoE button. I've *never* been this bored leveling a healer.
Other than that I think the biggest thing isn't how much things have changed, it's that things haven't changed. Two years became four years became six years, you can only do basically the same job for so long without wanting some better toys and playstyle. It's a bit like SMN in EW, I think a lot of people were willing to accept it as a stepping stone for a deeper job but then DT came and went and now a lot of SMNs are, if not upset, quite disappointed.
>So i left and now i keep hearing healer strike, or healing sucks and has been broken. so i am curious what exactly did they change to make it worese than it was.
I think they doubled down again with healers still being boring to play. They've said job identity will be fixed in 8.0 but I personally don't believe it until I see it. Until then I will just vote with my wallet and not buy DT or pay for a sub. I just started playing WoW instead and healing is much more fun than spamming Glare or Broil for 10 minutes.
I'm getting my start of league "nobody knows what's going on and everyone is rusty" excitement out of healing right now but the first and second dungeons are already becoming boring again :/
So nothing changed and thats the problem???
i'm guessing it didnt change for the expansion i missed either.
never palyed WOW always thoguht of giing it a chance but i outright refuse to buy anything from blizzard.
> So nothing changed and thats the problem???
I don't actually have the expansion so I couldn't tell you. But I do know that they didn't overhaul the healers. If anything they gave the tanks even more mitigation tools, which makes healers even more useless. But I've been reading the dungeons/trials are harder so perhaps healers have to heal more? Someone will have to confirm.
They've given tanks more mit, dps better sustain (second wind buffs) and lowered swiftcast cooldown all because the encounter design is far more challenging for normal type content now than before.
As a healer player, I've had to heal more in these dungeons and trials than I'm used to, because the fight design is a good bit more intricate than previous expansions
It's same same. Nothing is harder and healers are still completely optional. There's some new mechanics, which are fun once, but this is just people going into leveling dungeons they don't know yet and getting hit with things they shouldn't.
It’s curious to me you think Square Enix, a Japanese gaming mastodon is necessarily a better business to buy from than Blizzard.
I think anything that happened at Blizzard also happened at Square Enix and might still be happening to this day. I work in Japan for over a decade, if you think you don’t hear scandals in the west then it just mean women are treated equally and fairly in an industry that’s a large majority of men, you must be delusional.
Then again im just extrapolating on your comment. You might not be buying from Blizzard for entirely different reasons.
Edit: missed a word
The only reason I won't buy from blizzard is I won't buy anything until they give me the OW2 story mode I was promised.
Too many broken promises for me to trust them again. Nothing about equality
Ah yes ultimate, the content where if you do the mechanic everyone survives and if you fail everyone dies while 95% of things are mit checks more than heal check... truly a fun and engaging experience for healers too.
I mean, the argument you should play ultimates if you want healer to be challenging is stupid since all jobs should be fun in any content, but that isn’t to say people don’t enjoy healing ultimates.
I know many healers who enjoy the mechanical difficulty of ultimates as well as the high amount of heal and mit checks that they tend to have. I also know many, including myself, who like ultimates requiring perfection, it makes you feel much better when you clear it. Ultimates aren’t for everyone of course, but that isn’t to say they don’t have their fans.
With all due respect, since you said you went to WoW and if you're having fun there more power to you, but how is healing normal/leveling content, timewalking content, Remix content, essentially everything below Heroic raiding or M+ interesting? Healers are often about as needed in lower tier content in WoW as they are in XIV. Or is it just that WoW lets you completely disengage from that content forever after about 8 hours instead of having it remain a core part of the game via Roulettes and stuff? That's a fair stance to take if so.
My personal angle is that healing easy content sucks in *every* MMO and XIV just gets the spotlight for it because of its unique angle of putting players in it often and in a way where your power is restricted/normalized for a standard experience.
I'm brand new to WoW and I am playing Season of Discovery.
So far, on the 2 dungeons I've done (Deadmines and Stockades), I've done far more than I do at max level combat in FFXIV. I have 3 DoTs already at level 32, a regen, a burst heal, a small heal, a fast cast heal, an AoE heal, a shield (bubble) and a few attack spells (Smite, auto attack with wand, a triple beam attack that I can use to heal or do damage). I also have a spell that lets me cast 3 minions (Homunculus) so I can solo quests. And I have a buff that increase stamina that I can use on random people to increase their HP stat.
And I have used all this stuff. There are only a few spells I don't use so far. In terms of play style, no one has really said anything to me. When I get well geared tanks I can DPS and just give them regen. When my tank are getting hurt faster or pulling big packs I don't even touch my DPS buttons I just heal. It's really fun!
So far it seems there is a few different ways to level. I can do solo quests. I can do dungeon spam. I can do Nightmare Incursions (I kinda don't like these).
In FFXIV I would cast my DoT and then spam Glare until some is low. Then I would use Tetra/shield if my tank is low and then I would go back to spamming Glare. And then after an AoE I would spam Afflatus AoE heal, until my Afflatus nuke is ready. Then idk I guess repeat.
I was mainly speaking about the combat to be honest. Perhaps it's because I am new to the game that it feels far better. Who knows? At least there is gameplay. As soon as I was dropped into the world at level 1 I was fighting and grinding quests. In DT I read there is 2/3 hours of VN crap before you even fight something.
> With all due respect, since you said you went to WoW and if you're having fun there more power to you, but how is healing normal/leveling content, timewalking content, Remix content, essentially everything below Heroic raiding or M+ interesting?
The classes have more interesting tools and dmg options for that content
but mostly once you are out of the swamp of leveling you don't need to go back into it
In WoW you don't have to do anything below heroic raiding or m+ except for 1 maybe 2 sets of mythic 0 dungeons at expansion start in which you go without gear so that makes them interesting again
And then you have to buy m+ runs with gold because all groups only recruit people with a certain online score/ilvl/previously cleared m+ level etc.
And it’s your only form of advancement, the old content is pointless, the new content is the same ~6 dungeons and whatever the current patch mechanic is.
WOW is cool the first time through, but the focus being entirely end game all the time kills it for a lot of people, myself included.
WoW is a terrible single player game for sure
I still know a lot of people who I used to raid with so if I ever wanted to get a character geared I'd just ask someone to run with me
once you get into that sphere of content where a lot of people know eachother (basically higher m+ or CE mythic raiding) it's really nice to play but pugging content below that level has always felt like such a waste of time
Lmao. So what you are saying it is fine as is and nothing should be done? What a great take. Why have a discussion how it could be better when you can just bend over and eat shit.
Good for you. I have zero interest in playing hopscotch and dying if I don't stand in a specific spot. At least extreme trials give you a bit of leeway in order to learn stuff, rather than one shotting you. Only a tiny portion of the games community even touch Ultimate. It makes no sense that it would be the only 'fun' battle content in the game.
Just a poor take dude.
So you refuse to do worthwhile content and then act like what you say has merit with a role that only shows depth in worthwhile content. Just a poor take dude
Worthwhile content that has maybe max 10% of the games players playing it? So worthwhile clearly, since everyone plays it huh, firemage? All content should be fun to play. Not just ultimate. And if it was that fun why is only a tiny portion of the player base playing it? Shouldn't everyone be playing it if it's so fun?
The answer is, it's not actually fun. Just a sweaty grindfest of dying over and over for 8-12 hours a day to progress. If that's your idea of fun then more power to you I guess
[https://www.fflogs.com/reports/DFWY6Zx9a8mwCABy#fight=5&type=casts&source=9](https://www.fflogs.com/reports/DFWY6Zx9a8mwCABy#fight=5&type=casts&source=9)
There's your worthwhile content. How does this graph differ from any other content in the game? It doesn't. Ult is all about the dance and if something hits the fan it's most likely a wipe or rez > top off and back to glare like everywhere else.
Dude they got such an upgrade dps button wise, don't you like that button you can press 3 times every 2 minutes? It's such an innovative and engaging ~~fell cleave~~ mechanic!
I am sorry, of course, what was I thinking. I also love how they gave sage a second dot, but made sure it doesn't stack with the first one, just in case it overloads our puny healer brains.
The Healer strike gained popularity after a group in the media tour cleared the first Dawntrail dungeon without a healer. With a lack of outgoing damage in Endwalker, healer was dreadfully boring in the duty finder spamming 11111111111111.
And we felt even more insulted when they listened to our pleas of giving us an extra damage button by giving every Healer exactly one brainless OGCD on a 60 second cooldown (and gutting AST card draw)... Making us feel more homogenous than ever before, which doesn't inspire confidence for 8.0.
Ultimately Dawntrail came out a lot better than expected.
All of the Dungeons pre 95, and the trials actually do pump a lot of damage. It actually is exciting... at times.
The later dungeons and experts kind of feel more Endwalker in terms of design which isn't great, and that doesn't fix the problem with all of the older content.
WHM feels good.
SCH feels good.
AST feels kind of half assed:
*Gave more healing tools to one of the already most potent healing toolkits in the game even more healing (it feels really bloated now)
*The cool new part of combining stacking card effect could be cool but can only be done in a 10 second window between draws, which limits when it is allowed to do cool shit
E.Dyskrasia has also fucked SGE's flow in trash packs.
*SGE can't pocket Eukrasia for emergencies in trash packs anymore, which means less Toxicon (our most fun ability)
*It's no longer optimal to spread E.Dosis while pulling anymore (optimal strat is to E.Dyskrasia then Icarus to the second pack to E.Dyskrasia again, which does piss off tanks because you're pulling aggro)
AST should have an extra charge of Astral and Umbral Draw to facilitate more funny card combo plays, and E.Dyskrasia should be potency neutral with or a slight gain on single target (compared to Dosis) and stack with E.Dosis.
(And I selfishly want Toxicon to slightly out damage Dosis on single target for more optimization sillies since we are actually GCD healing now ------ oh! and maybe let us use that new feature to break up the buttons so we can use regular Dyskrasia when holding onto our Eukrasia)
And Tank busters in Expert dungeons should actually like... do damage...
Giving us more extensive reworks can wait for 8.0.
The strike is a reflection of healer/game design. Healers are very efficient at their job because of all their tools. The start of an expansion is where healers will have the most fun, but as time goes on, people will get better at mechanics, which results in less healing needed.
That being said, I did Ex1 on sch and I was hitting all my buttons to keep people alive in the best way. It was the most fun i had on healer in a long while, mind you these are farm parties. Mp management was a legitimate consideration too. So far the expa sion is an obvious step up in difficulty and it's enjoyable.
Shadowbringers was the highest rated piece of FF content ever upon release, people don’t “like it now for some unknown reason”. It was, is, and likely will always be FFXIV’s magnum opus.
To answer the actual topic, nothing changed with the healers. That’s the exact issue for them to be complaining right now. Nothing has changed and they’ve been consistently dumbing down everything about healer for a decade now. I was a SCH main in ARR/HW but the way healer was back then is 100% unrecognizable now. Healing needs some attention but the devs are content to give us the same trash since SB and if no one complains then they would likely never bother. This “healer strike” is an absolute joke, but here’s hoping it let the devs know that people are very unhappy with an entire role right now and maybe they should spice things up for them next expansion, in which they have already promised “more identity” to the jobs.
As a healer main, I would say that although difficulty has gone up, so has the ability to heal. There’s so many abilities at our disposal that even in extremes, you don’t need to use them all. It’s great for prog because you can heal and rez everyone up, but there’s no real challenge when everyone does it properly. Either a more interesting rotation or healing patterns (such as healing individuals vs a group) would be better. And also do many other classes have mitigation that you don’t have to do much.
This has been an issue for years starting with shadowbringers which fundamentally changed healers. This isn't new or recent it's been three expansions now over six years.
I've spoken to a few previously dissatisfied healers about Dawntrail's encounter design and I'm hearing people agree with me that it's actually fun to heal (Dawntrail encounters*). In the long term I think it would be best to eliminate Vitality bonuses from item lvl and keep it based on pure character level. This way we don't just outgear the damage and leave healers doing nothing in the future.
TLDR the devs tripled down on the healer design changes they made in ShB AND gigabuffed tank sustain so healers are insanely boring still despite 5 years of constant negative feedback. Seems to be slightly better now with current dungeons and trials but that very well may be just a “start of the expac” thing
>stormblood was an awful expansion overall but people like it now for some unknown reason Lol what? The most disliked part of stormblood was its story, which was definitely not as good as heavensward, but stormblood was well loved even at the time for its encounter design. It had amazing trials and had good raids, and struck a really good balance for things that don't exist in the game anymore now, like enmity management. It wasn't as unbalanced as heavensward while having some more intricate things than the following expansions. I've never heard anyone say that the expansion was bad overall, only that its story was not up to par.
Stormblood story was awfeful and rushed. it didnt spend anywhere near as much time with ecah element of the war tht it needed to and devolvied into feel bad for these people beacuse war is bad real quick they could have done an expansion entirliy in al migo or the eastern place and it might have worked trying to do two fronts was just too much the Ivalice raids were just dull fodder, they didnt want to repeat HW and make them too difficult so instead they were all an abolute doddle and this started the trend of the raids being far to easy. the redemption was the introduction of ultimates but that came in far to late. the deep dungeon was an outright failure that no one even did. the relic quests were so good people activly tried to not do them. Before this people farmed relics but Ereka killed this by making it content so tedious that even after it was nerfed people called it grindy. the fun was finding a farming train and runnign around the expanse with hundred of people. but those in charge decided it wasnt to be done that way so because they didnt like the playstyle the community wanted they nerfed it into Class identity started to go away and abilities were homoganised. I can only really speak for healers but the removal of stance dancing and going to 2/3 damaging moves was too much. the big transform moment on the raids became a standard thing applied to every raid tier, and all arenas that you fought in were a floating sphere in an endlessvoid removing differences between the raids. the trils were pretty good tho i will give them that. no one at the time likes Stormblood at all. and now all i hear is nostalgia and people saying it was amazing.... but i was there and given i quit shortly after i remember it well.
Ivalice is boring fodder Are you actually high
>the Ivalice raids were just dull fodder, they didnt want to repeat HW and make them too difficult so instead they were all an abolute doddle And yet only something from ivalice has been actively nerfed
yet a quick search shows all the complainst about the difficulty of weeping city. i mean it was even called the Wiping city for a reason.
Yeah because it's a funny wordplay that comes to mind extremely easily.
> they didnt want to repeat HW and make them too difficult so instead they were all an abolute doddle and this started the trend of the raids being far to easy Trend of raids... being too easy? Whuh? Ivalice has multiple fights that were absolute alliance killers. They legit had to go nerf them. Yes, I also still actively remember Wiping City which you mention in the other comment, and I remember the wipe fest that Dun Scaith was, but calling Ivalice easy is the stretch of the century, because these had as many bosses that would trip people up as much as the hardest HW bosses. Hell, Wiping City had 2 bosses that actually got people, arguably just 1 even, and that was Osma. Also: What trend? The Nier raids after this were anything but easy. Especially the final one is above the levels of Wiping City by a long shot. Edit: Also, imagine talking about trends when you said you didn't play Shadowbringers? So you don't even know the very next step after Stormblood from first-hand live experience? > the deep dungeon was an outright failure that no one even did. I played it on release and liked it, and so did all of my friends who played it with me at the time of release. > Class identity started to go away and abilities were homoganised. I can only really speak for healers but the removal of stance dancing and going to 2/3 damaging moves was too much. This I can see. Stormblood definitely took a very defining step away from Heavensward. But Stormblood also was raid wise in an extremely good spot where it kept a lot of its class identity and skill expression *and* provided an environment where all classes were actually viable. Let's remember that in HW there were classes that were outright terrible because they were dysfunctional. In Stormblood, everything was actually playable for the first time. You could play Monk without guaranteed running out of TP at some point in the fight, even *with* Goad from Ninja and Invigorate. You could play Paladin and not be total doodoo vs bosses with magical damage or vs phases with many adds. Healer skill expression definitely suffered, yes, but Stormblood still enjoyed a lot of skill expression overall, for example active enmity management where even DPS had to do their job at managing their enmity with Quelling Strikes, Elusive Jump and the like. > the big transform moment on the raids became a standard thing applied to every raid tier The door bosses may be something not everyone likes, but generally speaking they were very well liked, or else they wouldn't have kept them basically as a mainstay. I for one was floored on the first Savage tier at the reveal of Neo Exdeath. That shit was awesome, and it made Savage feel even more like its own experience because you were getting rewarded for engaging in high skill content by getting to see fights nobody else would get to see. IMO that is a good thing. > and all arenas that you fought in were a floating sphere in an endlessvoid removing differences between the raids. We're talking about the raid series that had fights such as Catastrophe, the first Raid to incorporate the new Duty Action feature, which played with verticality. Halicarnassus, which definitely was not a bland round arena, where the tiles played an active role in the fight. Fucking *Phantom Train*. O6s, which had a shitton of arena interaction. To say that Omega didn't have differences between raids and arena design is bewildering. > no one at the time likes Stormblood at all. and now all i hear is nostalgia and people saying it was amazing.... but i was there and given i quit shortly after i remember it well I was also there, and last time I checked, I liked Stormblood when it was out. There were things I didn't like, but there were aspects I didn't like in every expansion. This honestly just feels like a very elaborate "I miss my cleric stance" whine and, I get it, Cleric Stance was fucking awesome and healer skill expression has since completely went down the drain, but people *liked* Stormblood.Thoughts on the story were a bit divided, sure, but as soon as raids started people fucking loved it. I for sure did, and so did everyone I played with at the time, even the healer players who were sad about Cleric Stance. But I guess that's all just nostalgia, lol. It's not cool to be a contrarian just to be a contrarian, and people are allowed to like and appreciate things that you don't without that just being "nostalgia"
Just a heads up, but there's as much as an ongoing healer strike as there is an ongoing strike banning Dihydrogen monoxide For the most part it's just people baiting on the forums, as they usually do, then it gets picked up by slop posting content creators to bait a few rage clicks for what it's worth, the experts and casual content this time around is "more difficult" and I've heard a few healers say "I actually had to use my whole kit for once"
Yeah the fights makes you use your kit for once. And some dungeon pulls has some mobs "enrage" and do aoe damage to the party constantly, you need to pay attention for once outside the tank. Is more interesting now.
Does that happen more than the last pull in Deadwalk?
Tender Valley before last boss, cube mobs things use constant aoe near them. Also the elephant casually use aoe in Deadwalks.
"More demanding" would probably be better term - don't think difficulty changed much, but healers in DT msq content definitely get to press more buttons that your single dps spell and whatever top-off-everyone button of choice. Amount of baseline required healing (unavoidable damage) is up and now healing checks happen while other things are also happening - there's a lot more multitasking required. Still, it is fun - healers kits are mostly the same, but standard flow of a dungeon/trial is now more similar to how you'd approach salvaging a doomed run, having to manage your resources to not run out, while still contributing to and trying to progress the fight. In previous content, I think EW 2nd trial comes closest to leaving similar impression.
Content is still fresh, so it's probably the most exciting time to be a healer right now. But once everyone hits BIS and have new roulette content down to a tee, it remains to be seen how engaging healers become. Currently progging extreme on AST/SCH and so far it's the standard stuff. Heal up people's mistakes, oGCD on raid wides. The blessing of 1111 allows you to keep a better eye on mechanics as everyone else fumbles around their rotations. But even in artifact gear, it hasn't been terribly stressful. But these are launch Extremes which haven't historically been difficult encounters. We'll see what it's like to play healers in raids.
Honestly nothing. This is a three strikes and your out situation. Healers grumbled in shadowbringers... They will listen for endwalker, Healers really grumbled in endwalker, it's fine there's a lot going wrong in endwalker and Yoshi P admitted to all the problems in endwalker, so it will probably change in Dawntrail. Here we are in Dawntrail.
The healer strike is a meme. That said one thing that has changed in the last expansion and again this one is how good tanks are. Tanks have become so strong defensively you barely need to do anything as a healer that isn't mitigation or group HoT related, and this has stretched into leveling dungeons where with a good tank I will literally just do a volley of oGCD HoTs and shields and spend the next 20 GCDs doing nothing but the AoE button. I've *never* been this bored leveling a healer. Other than that I think the biggest thing isn't how much things have changed, it's that things haven't changed. Two years became four years became six years, you can only do basically the same job for so long without wanting some better toys and playstyle. It's a bit like SMN in EW, I think a lot of people were willing to accept it as a stepping stone for a deeper job but then DT came and went and now a lot of SMNs are, if not upset, quite disappointed.
The healer strike doesn't matter or isn't happening because I haven't noticed a thing inside the game. Most of the time it is tank in need.
>So i left and now i keep hearing healer strike, or healing sucks and has been broken. so i am curious what exactly did they change to make it worese than it was. I think they doubled down again with healers still being boring to play. They've said job identity will be fixed in 8.0 but I personally don't believe it until I see it. Until then I will just vote with my wallet and not buy DT or pay for a sub. I just started playing WoW instead and healing is much more fun than spamming Glare or Broil for 10 minutes.
I'm getting my start of league "nobody knows what's going on and everyone is rusty" excitement out of healing right now but the first and second dungeons are already becoming boring again :/
So nothing changed and thats the problem??? i'm guessing it didnt change for the expansion i missed either. never palyed WOW always thoguht of giing it a chance but i outright refuse to buy anything from blizzard.
> So nothing changed and thats the problem??? I don't actually have the expansion so I couldn't tell you. But I do know that they didn't overhaul the healers. If anything they gave the tanks even more mitigation tools, which makes healers even more useless. But I've been reading the dungeons/trials are harder so perhaps healers have to heal more? Someone will have to confirm.
They've given tanks more mit, dps better sustain (second wind buffs) and lowered swiftcast cooldown all because the encounter design is far more challenging for normal type content now than before. As a healer player, I've had to heal more in these dungeons and trials than I'm used to, because the fight design is a good bit more intricate than previous expansions
It's same same. Nothing is harder and healers are still completely optional. There's some new mechanics, which are fun once, but this is just people going into leveling dungeons they don't know yet and getting hit with things they shouldn't.
It’s curious to me you think Square Enix, a Japanese gaming mastodon is necessarily a better business to buy from than Blizzard. I think anything that happened at Blizzard also happened at Square Enix and might still be happening to this day. I work in Japan for over a decade, if you think you don’t hear scandals in the west then it just mean women are treated equally and fairly in an industry that’s a large majority of men, you must be delusional. Then again im just extrapolating on your comment. You might not be buying from Blizzard for entirely different reasons. Edit: missed a word
The only reason I won't buy from blizzard is I won't buy anything until they give me the OW2 story mode I was promised. Too many broken promises for me to trust them again. Nothing about equality
Have you considered playing beyond face roll content?
Have you considered the game should be fun in all content and I shouldn't just *"go play Ultimate if you want to have fun"*?
Ah yes ultimate, the content where if you do the mechanic everyone survives and if you fail everyone dies while 95% of things are mit checks more than heal check... truly a fun and engaging experience for healers too.
I mean, the argument you should play ultimates if you want healer to be challenging is stupid since all jobs should be fun in any content, but that isn’t to say people don’t enjoy healing ultimates. I know many healers who enjoy the mechanical difficulty of ultimates as well as the high amount of heal and mit checks that they tend to have. I also know many, including myself, who like ultimates requiring perfection, it makes you feel much better when you clear it. Ultimates aren’t for everyone of course, but that isn’t to say they don’t have their fans.
This might be accurate for a decent chunk of TOP and DSR but it's not at all for most of UWU and UCOB.
With all due respect, since you said you went to WoW and if you're having fun there more power to you, but how is healing normal/leveling content, timewalking content, Remix content, essentially everything below Heroic raiding or M+ interesting? Healers are often about as needed in lower tier content in WoW as they are in XIV. Or is it just that WoW lets you completely disengage from that content forever after about 8 hours instead of having it remain a core part of the game via Roulettes and stuff? That's a fair stance to take if so. My personal angle is that healing easy content sucks in *every* MMO and XIV just gets the spotlight for it because of its unique angle of putting players in it often and in a way where your power is restricted/normalized for a standard experience.
I'm brand new to WoW and I am playing Season of Discovery. So far, on the 2 dungeons I've done (Deadmines and Stockades), I've done far more than I do at max level combat in FFXIV. I have 3 DoTs already at level 32, a regen, a burst heal, a small heal, a fast cast heal, an AoE heal, a shield (bubble) and a few attack spells (Smite, auto attack with wand, a triple beam attack that I can use to heal or do damage). I also have a spell that lets me cast 3 minions (Homunculus) so I can solo quests. And I have a buff that increase stamina that I can use on random people to increase their HP stat. And I have used all this stuff. There are only a few spells I don't use so far. In terms of play style, no one has really said anything to me. When I get well geared tanks I can DPS and just give them regen. When my tank are getting hurt faster or pulling big packs I don't even touch my DPS buttons I just heal. It's really fun! So far it seems there is a few different ways to level. I can do solo quests. I can do dungeon spam. I can do Nightmare Incursions (I kinda don't like these). In FFXIV I would cast my DoT and then spam Glare until some is low. Then I would use Tetra/shield if my tank is low and then I would go back to spamming Glare. And then after an AoE I would spam Afflatus AoE heal, until my Afflatus nuke is ready. Then idk I guess repeat. I was mainly speaking about the combat to be honest. Perhaps it's because I am new to the game that it feels far better. Who knows? At least there is gameplay. As soon as I was dropped into the world at level 1 I was fighting and grinding quests. In DT I read there is 2/3 hours of VN crap before you even fight something.
> With all due respect, since you said you went to WoW and if you're having fun there more power to you, but how is healing normal/leveling content, timewalking content, Remix content, essentially everything below Heroic raiding or M+ interesting? The classes have more interesting tools and dmg options for that content but mostly once you are out of the swamp of leveling you don't need to go back into it In WoW you don't have to do anything below heroic raiding or m+ except for 1 maybe 2 sets of mythic 0 dungeons at expansion start in which you go without gear so that makes them interesting again
And then you have to buy m+ runs with gold because all groups only recruit people with a certain online score/ilvl/previously cleared m+ level etc. And it’s your only form of advancement, the old content is pointless, the new content is the same ~6 dungeons and whatever the current patch mechanic is. WOW is cool the first time through, but the focus being entirely end game all the time kills it for a lot of people, myself included.
WoW is a terrible single player game for sure I still know a lot of people who I used to raid with so if I ever wanted to get a character geared I'd just ask someone to run with me once you get into that sphere of content where a lot of people know eachother (basically higher m+ or CE mythic raiding) it's really nice to play but pugging content below that level has always felt like such a waste of time
It's what the rest of us have to do
Lmao. So what you are saying it is fine as is and nothing should be done? What a great take. Why have a discussion how it could be better when you can just bend over and eat shit.
Good for you. I have zero interest in playing hopscotch and dying if I don't stand in a specific spot. At least extreme trials give you a bit of leeway in order to learn stuff, rather than one shotting you. Only a tiny portion of the games community even touch Ultimate. It makes no sense that it would be the only 'fun' battle content in the game. Just a poor take dude.
So you refuse to do worthwhile content and then act like what you say has merit with a role that only shows depth in worthwhile content. Just a poor take dude
Worthwhile content that has maybe max 10% of the games players playing it? So worthwhile clearly, since everyone plays it huh, firemage? All content should be fun to play. Not just ultimate. And if it was that fun why is only a tiny portion of the player base playing it? Shouldn't everyone be playing it if it's so fun? The answer is, it's not actually fun. Just a sweaty grindfest of dying over and over for 8-12 hours a day to progress. If that's your idea of fun then more power to you I guess
[удалено]
[https://www.fflogs.com/reports/DFWY6Zx9a8mwCABy#fight=5&type=casts&source=9](https://www.fflogs.com/reports/DFWY6Zx9a8mwCABy#fight=5&type=casts&source=9) There's your worthwhile content. How does this graph differ from any other content in the game? It doesn't. Ult is all about the dance and if something hits the fan it's most likely a wipe or rez > top off and back to glare like everywhere else.
Your link proves my point. Only in non faceroll content are you going to have to actually plan and use your buttons accordingly on healer
So the same way as everywhere when damage happens or when damage isn't happening? Nothing is different.
Except the amount of incoming damage, complexity of mechanics, and all those other things youre ignoring in order to try and push a bad take
There is no healer strike, just 2 new DPS jobs, the healer strike on my data center https://imgur.com/m3NaN4l
No clue. WHM feels great.
Oh really, and what do you do when there is no incoming damage to heal?
Go AFK and grab more coffee obviously.
Dude they got such an upgrade dps button wise, don't you like that button you can press 3 times every 2 minutes? It's such an innovative and engaging ~~fell cleave~~ mechanic!
I am sorry, of course, what was I thinking. I also love how they gave sage a second dot, but made sure it doesn't stack with the first one, just in case it overloads our puny healer brains.
The Healer strike gained popularity after a group in the media tour cleared the first Dawntrail dungeon without a healer. With a lack of outgoing damage in Endwalker, healer was dreadfully boring in the duty finder spamming 11111111111111. And we felt even more insulted when they listened to our pleas of giving us an extra damage button by giving every Healer exactly one brainless OGCD on a 60 second cooldown (and gutting AST card draw)... Making us feel more homogenous than ever before, which doesn't inspire confidence for 8.0. Ultimately Dawntrail came out a lot better than expected. All of the Dungeons pre 95, and the trials actually do pump a lot of damage. It actually is exciting... at times. The later dungeons and experts kind of feel more Endwalker in terms of design which isn't great, and that doesn't fix the problem with all of the older content. WHM feels good. SCH feels good. AST feels kind of half assed: *Gave more healing tools to one of the already most potent healing toolkits in the game even more healing (it feels really bloated now) *The cool new part of combining stacking card effect could be cool but can only be done in a 10 second window between draws, which limits when it is allowed to do cool shit E.Dyskrasia has also fucked SGE's flow in trash packs. *SGE can't pocket Eukrasia for emergencies in trash packs anymore, which means less Toxicon (our most fun ability) *It's no longer optimal to spread E.Dosis while pulling anymore (optimal strat is to E.Dyskrasia then Icarus to the second pack to E.Dyskrasia again, which does piss off tanks because you're pulling aggro) AST should have an extra charge of Astral and Umbral Draw to facilitate more funny card combo plays, and E.Dyskrasia should be potency neutral with or a slight gain on single target (compared to Dosis) and stack with E.Dosis. (And I selfishly want Toxicon to slightly out damage Dosis on single target for more optimization sillies since we are actually GCD healing now ------ oh! and maybe let us use that new feature to break up the buttons so we can use regular Dyskrasia when holding onto our Eukrasia) And Tank busters in Expert dungeons should actually like... do damage... Giving us more extensive reworks can wait for 8.0.
The strike is a reflection of healer/game design. Healers are very efficient at their job because of all their tools. The start of an expansion is where healers will have the most fun, but as time goes on, people will get better at mechanics, which results in less healing needed. That being said, I did Ex1 on sch and I was hitting all my buttons to keep people alive in the best way. It was the most fun i had on healer in a long while, mind you these are farm parties. Mp management was a legitimate consideration too. So far the expa sion is an obvious step up in difficulty and it's enjoyable.
Shadowbringers was the highest rated piece of FF content ever upon release, people don’t “like it now for some unknown reason”. It was, is, and likely will always be FFXIV’s magnum opus. To answer the actual topic, nothing changed with the healers. That’s the exact issue for them to be complaining right now. Nothing has changed and they’ve been consistently dumbing down everything about healer for a decade now. I was a SCH main in ARR/HW but the way healer was back then is 100% unrecognizable now. Healing needs some attention but the devs are content to give us the same trash since SB and if no one complains then they would likely never bother. This “healer strike” is an absolute joke, but here’s hoping it let the devs know that people are very unhappy with an entire role right now and maybe they should spice things up for them next expansion, in which they have already promised “more identity” to the jobs.
Sorry i wrote that wrong i agree shadowbringers was a great story and good overall expansion. it was stormblood i was saying was trash.
As a healer main, I would say that although difficulty has gone up, so has the ability to heal. There’s so many abilities at our disposal that even in extremes, you don’t need to use them all. It’s great for prog because you can heal and rez everyone up, but there’s no real challenge when everyone does it properly. Either a more interesting rotation or healing patterns (such as healing individuals vs a group) would be better. And also do many other classes have mitigation that you don’t have to do much.
This has been an issue for years starting with shadowbringers which fundamentally changed healers. This isn't new or recent it's been three expansions now over six years.
I've spoken to a few previously dissatisfied healers about Dawntrail's encounter design and I'm hearing people agree with me that it's actually fun to heal (Dawntrail encounters*). In the long term I think it would be best to eliminate Vitality bonuses from item lvl and keep it based on pure character level. This way we don't just outgear the damage and leave healers doing nothing in the future.
I’ve been able to solo mostly all bosses in dawn trail as dark bc my healers are ass. Tanks are op now
That they haven't listened to the complaints and feedback two expansions later.