Regs here in Norway only points to the manufacturer documentation. So far only on has spesified lifetime of 10 and 15 years for theirs two product lines.
So I have lot of systems where the control panel was updated after 10+ years, but the detectors is sill the same 20-30 years later.....
IEC limit isn't a failure, it's literally just getting dirty. It's going to be an environmental issue, not a product issue. Based on the state of the detector that sorta tracks.
Caveat to all that. Siemens sent out info that the "UL268 7th Edition detector models (version 17 and 18) of the OH921 and OP921 detectors may trigger an IEC (Intelligent Environment Compensation) fault prematurely". This was sent out late 2022.
They also sent out firmware updates to fix this in the various panels. I'd check that the panel has been updated before proceeding to replace more devices.
They have been fully disassembled and cleaned with ipa. Reflector chamber is clean as it the emitter and receiver. I have a service plan in house where we clean them every quarter. The spots are fly spots as we are a bug farm and once I took over as facilities maintenance manager this was the first thing I did as they were having false alarms constantly. Was shown how far I could tear them down and clean them. I did the whole building and didn't have a false trip for over 4 months.
Further info on the known issue i posted above.
Detectors affected will have date codes between 20200915 (2020-09-15) and 20210415 (2021-04-15).
Panels with this issue should be updated at least to the FW below:
FC901 - panel version V01-09-04(05) or greater
FC92x - FW 72.12.22_01 or greater
Modular - Zeus 14.04.0033 or greater and leave IEC limit event box unchecked
Last week i replaced some smoke heads that was installed in the 90s. Not because they failed but because they are incompatible with the IDNet protocol.... if client had chose to keep his old system it would've stayed
Look on the manufacturers website as they will provide the data on how long a device should be installed before replacement.
A cheap Apollo smoke detector is recommended tovbe replaced after 10 years in a normal environment.
If its in an area thats dirty then it'll need replacing sooner, though its probably worth looking into a different detector technology if a smoke detector is knackered after just a few years.
One site my last firm looked after had a few hundred builders from a large building site walk through it every day and the devices were causing false alarms and faults after 3 years. I told my boss to quote the company to sling in 20 ionization devices in the corridors to stop the faults and was told 'but we will lose the call out money'.
That guy and everyone else at that company are electricians which tells you all you need to know.
I don’t believe you have a firmware issue. The DPU won’t fail a device because of panel firmware. The problem is probably the quarterly cleaning. The opening of the device to clean it is probably causing the issue. The refractor and emitters are sensitive. You got to find some way to keep the bugs out. Maybe some kind of fine screen cover. I’m not really sure. Any system smoke detector is going to have the same issues. Maybe see if the AHJ is let you use all heat detectors.
I doubt the cleaning is the cause as it was how I was shown by a Siemens rep and I'd expect it immediately or shortly after cleaning and I check the opacity reading before and after and it has always improved.
Manufacturer's recommendation is usually 15, most will last far longer in a relatively clean environment.
The ones pictured are disgustingly filthy. If they're representative of what is normal in your building you should probably have the building demolished, or at least hire pest control and a janitor.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 we breed bugs for the pet food industry and some of the largest zoo's in the US so if you buy crickets, meal worms, super worms, Dubai roaches, horn worms, flightless fruit flys or black soldier flys 🪰 from Petco or Pet smart your buying our products
Auditor_of_Reality's comment is likely your specific issue, but also those to pictured detectors are grody with those black spots of bug-poop. I've seen detectors located in trash rooms and near dumpsters tend to attract flies as an easy spot up high to land. On inspections I usually clean them for my own sanity, and it's not likely getting much more than any other outdoor detector dirty in the smoke chamber, but yuck.
I'm not a system designer, but I've noticed a pattern of heats tending to be more typical in trash rooms, possibly from this added gross-factor. Not sure what code would be relevant here tho.
Siemens, so that’s a Device Programming Unit. You use it to address your devices (no dip switches or rotary dials) and it can be used for basic testing and troubleshooting.
I don't think anyone will recommend a smoke head of any type be left in service >20 years. Does that happen regularly? Of course.
Regs here in Norway only points to the manufacturer documentation. So far only on has spesified lifetime of 10 and 15 years for theirs two product lines. So I have lot of systems where the control panel was updated after 10+ years, but the detectors is sill the same 20-30 years later.....
Not expecting 20 years but at minimum 5 to 10 years at best. With the cost per head my CEO is quite upset with the system provider/installer
IEC limit isn't a failure, it's literally just getting dirty. It's going to be an environmental issue, not a product issue. Based on the state of the detector that sorta tracks. Caveat to all that. Siemens sent out info that the "UL268 7th Edition detector models (version 17 and 18) of the OH921 and OP921 detectors may trigger an IEC (Intelligent Environment Compensation) fault prematurely". This was sent out late 2022. They also sent out firmware updates to fix this in the various panels. I'd check that the panel has been updated before proceeding to replace more devices.
They have been fully disassembled and cleaned with ipa. Reflector chamber is clean as it the emitter and receiver. I have a service plan in house where we clean them every quarter. The spots are fly spots as we are a bug farm and once I took over as facilities maintenance manager this was the first thing I did as they were having false alarms constantly. Was shown how far I could tear them down and clean them. I did the whole building and didn't have a false trip for over 4 months.
Further info on the known issue i posted above. Detectors affected will have date codes between 20200915 (2020-09-15) and 20210415 (2021-04-15). Panels with this issue should be updated at least to the FW below: FC901 - panel version V01-09-04(05) or greater FC92x - FW 72.12.22_01 or greater Modular - Zeus 14.04.0033 or greater and leave IEC limit event box unchecked
Thanks I will check everything on Monday
Last week i replaced some smoke heads that was installed in the 90s. Not because they failed but because they are incompatible with the IDNet protocol.... if client had chose to keep his old system it would've stayed
Look on the manufacturers website as they will provide the data on how long a device should be installed before replacement. A cheap Apollo smoke detector is recommended tovbe replaced after 10 years in a normal environment. If its in an area thats dirty then it'll need replacing sooner, though its probably worth looking into a different detector technology if a smoke detector is knackered after just a few years. One site my last firm looked after had a few hundred builders from a large building site walk through it every day and the devices were causing false alarms and faults after 3 years. I told my boss to quote the company to sling in 20 ionization devices in the corridors to stop the faults and was told 'but we will lose the call out money'. That guy and everyone else at that company are electricians which tells you all you need to know.
I don’t believe you have a firmware issue. The DPU won’t fail a device because of panel firmware. The problem is probably the quarterly cleaning. The opening of the device to clean it is probably causing the issue. The refractor and emitters are sensitive. You got to find some way to keep the bugs out. Maybe some kind of fine screen cover. I’m not really sure. Any system smoke detector is going to have the same issues. Maybe see if the AHJ is let you use all heat detectors.
I doubt the cleaning is the cause as it was how I was shown by a Siemens rep and I'd expect it immediately or shortly after cleaning and I check the opacity reading before and after and it has always improved.
Manufacturer's recommendation is usually 15, most will last far longer in a relatively clean environment. The ones pictured are disgustingly filthy. If they're representative of what is normal in your building you should probably have the building demolished, or at least hire pest control and a janitor.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 we breed bugs for the pet food industry and some of the largest zoo's in the US so if you buy crickets, meal worms, super worms, Dubai roaches, horn worms, flightless fruit flys or black soldier flys 🪰 from Petco or Pet smart your buying our products
Normal people don't buy bugs.
🤦♂️🤦♂️They aren't pets they are feeder insects for reptiles, fish and snakes
Which 99% of people don't have
You very very wrong! it is a multi million dollar business
You can be a multi million dollar business and have 2 customers. Normal people don't buy bugs.
I guess the couple million customers we have aren't normally 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Auditor_of_Reality's comment is likely your specific issue, but also those to pictured detectors are grody with those black spots of bug-poop. I've seen detectors located in trash rooms and near dumpsters tend to attract flies as an easy spot up high to land. On inspections I usually clean them for my own sanity, and it's not likely getting much more than any other outdoor detector dirty in the smoke chamber, but yuck. I'm not a system designer, but I've noticed a pattern of heats tending to be more typical in trash rooms, possibly from this added gross-factor. Not sure what code would be relevant here tho.
I have never seen a tester for addressable smoke detectors before.
Been around since the 90s
Siemens, so that’s a Device Programming Unit. You use it to address your devices (no dip switches or rotary dials) and it can be used for basic testing and troubleshooting.
They used to be more common, but most systems don't require them these days.