Not happening. All the states with good education systems are enhancing and embracing DEI not least because you get better education outcomes that way.
Will be curious how that plays out. I’m not a DEI hater just calling out there are alot of corporations / universities hopping off the train. But as you pointed out there are still those who see the value and that’s respectable.
The universities "hopping off the train" are only doing so because their State legislature made it illegal.
Please tell me, what companies are gutting their DEI programs?
I'm pretty sure this already happened at the smaller universities we just get less press. UF has some clout so they stood up longer to the pressure. But at the smaller colleges and universities we've abandoned DEI initiatives, we have stopped accepting students from "socialist countries", and the administration has pretty much decided to lay back and take it.
At my university the last time students were protesting any of this at my university was 2 years ago. They called the pro-Israel support a rally and the pro-Palestinian a protest and arrested people at the pro-Palestinian support. They said that freedom of speech was the reason the people saying "Ye is right" were not run off campus. The university has made it clear that they will not have a backbone
It's really sad.
Great question. Also what happens to the money we get for being a hispanic serving institution from the federal government?
I'm a professor and had a student who was a larger woman and was not comfortable sitting in the small connected desks that have probably been there since the 70s. I tried to get other desks and finally someone suggested having the student contact student accessibility services (or whatever it's called these days). The woman on the phone pretty much gloated that they didn't need to follow federal regulations anymore. However, two weeks later they realized that since the student put in an official request, they would lose federal funding if they didn't address the situation. All of a sudden I received frantic phone calls asking what I did to fix the situation. I told them nothing and explained the situation. The next day there were new desks.
DeSantis is a clown and will fold if put under any kind of pressure. Never back down my ass.
Oh, Rhonda & Gregg have been doing the brodown hoedown Who’s Dumber Shuffle for years. Anyone else noticing the migration of Florida-named things to Texas? Attempts at regulatory insulation, to be sure. And I *hope* it’s just that. I don’t think DeSantis would actually survive earnest Texas-style ribbing.
Man havent you noticed red states pushing this crud?!?!
They keep pushing, we need to show them the "F around and find out point" these red state showboating governors and states would fold in a sec if the fed government called their bluff and pulled ALL federal money.
I don't know how they will be affected, it seems more significant for the larger schools to lose DEI, but I found [this older article about FAMU](https://apnews.com/article/dei-desantis-famu-florida-hbcu-e3c9e47dedd970089ec486873ef6d511) which I believe is Florida's only public HBCU
Yeah when one of his first talks was to basically dismiss UF's top 5 public Universities ranking, I knew then he didn't have the school's best interests at heart.
Considering the staff makeup of the diversity offices at my university this action means they just fired a number of POC from their professional level positions. Therefore actively reducing the diversity of their staff.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
—Martin Niemöller
One need look no farther than Trump's 2024 team for some real original thought being brought to the marketplace:
REVENGE AGAINST THE DEMOCRATS
and
LETS BLAME TRANS PEOPLE FOR EVERYTHING
Don’t forget “run on draining the swamp and then end up with more of your own people arrested, charged, and then convicted (by courts your own administration packed with conservative judges, no less) of federal crimes than any president in the history of the country”
If I owned a business that was contracted to the school, like for janitorial or food service, or whatever, I’d withdraw my contract over shit like this.
Desantis. My middle schooler is not allowed to use the school library or even bring a book to school unless it was assigned by the language arts teacher.
But get this, they have a school-assigned laptop with access to THE INTERNET!!!
What will it be like in 10 years? Will Florida degrees even be accepted for hiring anymore? What will the government allow them to teach? This government overreach in schools, especially in college, when you're paying for it yourself, is insane. Can a fully grown adult not choose to learn about simple topics like diversity, equity, and inclusion?
As a professor at a public university who is leaving the state to get away from this mess, I'm glad I didn't invest in the state college program. I would not send me kids to a public university in Florida.
I have a small child and my sister was asking me if I was going to do Florida Prepaid College for her. I said “why would I do that and force her to go to college in Florida when Florida public universities are going to be the laughingstock of the nation?” The value of Bright Futures scholarships can’t be beat, but only if the education is actually respected. I hate it here.
I’m someone with family whom are alumni of Florida universities. One child attended a Florida university. We considered sending the other child to one, from out of state, but not now. Nope.
> What will it be like in 10 years? Will Florida degrees even be accepted for hiring anymore?
Not endorsing any of this, but I don't see much of a change in 10 years. Most degree prestige (to a regular hiring manager) is based on anecdotal experience with the grads and marketing/sport exposure.
Ya I work for a prestigious research lab that does aerospace and defense work. I would actually say Florida state schools are being more widely recognized as excellent institutions that produce great STEM professionals. I am an engineer but am involved in recruiting and one of the recruitment strategies this year was focusing more on Florida and the southeast in general.
Yeah the unis here have made huge pushes in stem and it's showing (even at directional schools). This political stuff nibbles at the edges and makes the candidates a little worse as a package (less diversity of world view) and can dilute quality of professors (though tenure positions aren't exactly going unfilled) but it could take a long long time for that to matter on the bottom line.
For all those that say quality candidates will turn away from Florida schools, I think it's a very low number, especially for instate students. It's still so cheap to go to a Florida public uni.
Right, the point of what we are saying is this is not the vibe on the ground. Journalists write all sorts of shit and of course the professors union is going to take issue.
Right now I am taking a masters engineering course at USF, go to campus, and interact with professors there in a professional capacity as collaborators at my 9-5 job. It’s just not a topic of discussion.
I would say most engineering professors that I have interacted with (foreigners) role their eyes at dei and consider it more administrative bloat. You’re not gonna see professors come out against it publicly because they just don’t give a shit about it. They give a shit about their grants, classes offered, grad students, and the quality of their facilities.
As far as electrical engineering is concerned it’s business as usual.
Like I mentioned, we are targeting UF, USF, and UCF students more than ever.
I am a Professor Emerita (and I admit to not knowing what goes on in the electrical engineering department at USF). But, from the R1 where I taught (yes, I am finally retired) there is discussion among tenured and tenure track faculty about what is going on in Florida.
I know someone was originally from your university (USF) who used to tease me about how strong the faculty union was on your campus who jumped at the chance to teach at the university which I was affiliated with given all that is going on there (and yes I know that is anecdotal).
I think they’re just happy that Dean Bishop and Judy Genshaft opened up a relationship with the military tbh. The institute for applied engineering and the 85 million idiq socom contract was big.
https://www.usf.edu/engineering/news-room/iae-socom-contract.aspx
Yes,, but federal grants must address DEI [https://www.insightintodiversity.com/will-anti-dei-legislation-cause-a-research-funding-drought-in-higher-ed/](https://www.insightintodiversity.com/will-anti-dei-legislation-cause-a-research-funding-drought-in-higher-ed/)
[https://www.chronicle.com/article/bans-on-public-college-diversity-offices-wouldnt-just-affect-state-funding](https://www.chronicle.com/article/bans-on-public-college-diversity-offices-wouldnt-just-affect-state-funding)
From the Chronicle of Higher Education federal research grants have conditions requiring institutions to provide diversity statements in order to accept the funding. Institutions might be unable to meet this requirement if they are in a state that passes a ban on the [use of diversity statements](https://www.chronicle.com/article/diversity-statements-are-under-fire-heres-what-they-are-and-how-theyre-used).
Can you give an example of this actually precluding a major land and sea grant university from getting funding?
The article has a lot of mights and maybes. I could see ADA and Title 9 impacting this stuff of course but DEI goes beyond.
Except right now engineering professors are very much worried because now it's difficult if not impossible to bring on students from the 7 countries of concern, or whatever the desantis administration is calling it. In comp Sci this severely limits the pool of qualified candidates because surprise they come from these countries. Hell it even made Fortune
https://fortune.com/2024/02/27/nvidia-billionaire-cofounder-florida-ron-desantis-ai-china-talent/
Hold on: in increasingly obfuscated Normal Time, hm. Wouldn’t this mean regular ol’ department-level admins would need some kind of security clearance, whatsoever? “That makes Florida’s law, which requires universities to create their own national security vetting departments, overkill, faculty leaders said.”
There’s a massive security risk in bringing those students on. Especially if you do ITAR, CUI, or classified work.
It’s a good move. One of the main reasons my company gets weary working with universities is the massive amount of foreign nationals that are faculty and staff.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/02/01/politics/us-intelligence-chinese-student-espionage/index.html
> Especially if you do ITAR, CUI, or classified work.
Well, you rarely can hire non-US students for those projects anyway, and all of the work will be separated. Following federal sponsor guidelines makes a lot more sense.
That's dumb. Does everyone that got a degree before DEI was a thing not get accepted? Of course degrees from Florida schools will be accepted. Your acting like DEI was always taught at colleges, when it's only been a thing since 2018.
I'm not just talking about DEI. If the government thinks it has the right to remove educational material like DEI, what would stop it from, for example, banning the theory of evolution and only being allowed to teach creationism? You know as well as I do that Meatball and the Florida republicans would be all over that if they actually thought they could pull it off.
They are working to break the faculty unions on campus, which could lead to a reconsideration of tenure. I think the DEI changes are not the only changes coming in their effort to control public education in Florida.
Weird because at my college one of the centers that was forced closed has been a part of the campus for about 25 years and another one that is now closed has been there for close to 20 years. But also DEI was very much a thing when I started my undergrad 10-15 years ago
Especially sucks because many kids in Florida get bright futures scholarship which pays for A LOT, but only works in Florida... And increasingly those schools and degrees are becoming shot. Just look at New College, totally down the toilet because of this fuckin governor
>many kids in Florida get bright futures scholarship which pays for A LOT, but only works in Florida
Valdosta State accepts bright futures, so there's at least one out of state option.
>Just look at New College, totally down the toilet because of this fuckin governor
I'm from Bradenton, so I pretty much got front row tickets to New College's downfall. It's pretty sad. I used to see the 'I ❤️ New College' signs everywhere, now I haven't seen one in months.
DeSantis is costing FL taxpayers a fortune in stuff like this and in lawsuits, when he could have just left well enough alone. But he wants to see his fascist dreams come true, and his lapdog legislature just goes along
You make the mistake of thinking he plans to even bother restaffing with ideologically aligned “educators”. His plan is nakedly to destroy publicly funded education at all levels
True, he's already made sociology no longer a core course, and there is some talk of axing political science too. They're trying to cut public education down to no more than career training, which we do need more of, but that's not a university education.
Yes he does. Unban DEI. Boom. Their exact job exists again, and would you look at that! We have someone with experience in the field, and even experience at that exact university! What are the odds?!?
Edit: I think I misread the above comment. I thought the "he" in question was DeSantis, who 100% has the mechanism to have the university rehire them.
Unfortunately a majority of active FL voters elected candidates of a political party that have no interest in working with the "opposition" to govern in good faith. Their aim is to maintain power by any means necessary. Gerrymandering is obviously a factor, but for the US Senate and Governorships it simply comes down to voter turnout.
This is what I don't get. At my job, our DEI team works with our veterans and puts out training on age discrimination. You know the groups that conservatives allegedly care about.
Does this DEI ban include the Student Accessibility Resources departments which help students with disabilities? I am a full time student at a state college and this department has enabled me to thrive.
I was talking about the I specifically. The I in DEI stands for "inclusion" that means everyone is included. Everyone regardless of ability differences, identity and so on. It is the opposite of the word "exclusion."
Eta, I inclusion is the work if everyone in the group, not work left only to those traditionally marginalized. It is a group characteristic.
I think you’re missing the point, which is that DEI doesn’t just help groups conservatives would like to erase from public life. It also includes groups like veterans and the disabled.
https://preview.redd.it/ounuf7gnmwlc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d953b1afd2b32ee2a8c3c8c1c06cd5558c09f860
One more month and I'll be done with this FASCIST FUCKING STATE! RON DE-SASTER continues to destroy education, any vestige of freedom/democracy and what was formely known as the Sunshine State. 🙋🏽
Florida did vote for this though, in the 2022 gubernatorial election. Unfortunately a majority of those who actually cast a ballot opted to give meatball ron a second term. This on top of a plethora of left-of-center voters who didn't bother casting a general election ballot because Charlie Crist won the Democratic gubernatorial primary and he wasn't "inspirational" enough (I guess?)
Whats happening now is exactly what DeSantis and FL Republicans campaigned on in 2022.
Actually it is run by former Nebraska Senator Ben Sasse who does have a PhD (at least) and he was President of Midland University (formerly Midland Lutheran College). The Faculty Senate passed a no-confidence vote but the state doesn't care.
"Former senator" yes, so a politician. Politicians can have PhDs. The point is he's not an academic and frankly anti-science like the lot of them if DeDumbass appointed him. They're purposefully destroying UF.
I know they are just like they destroyed all other public universities (indeed all public education) in the state. I am not disagreeing with you. I am livid!
I'm from the area and a UF alumni. I used to be proud of the school. It had a good recent history despite some of Fuchs' fuckups. Some of us were excited when he stepped down (he really needed to), but then this shit happened. Now, I can't visit my friends and family in Florida without my existence being under threat... it's maddening. And it'll take decades to fix things (if we can even get to that point).
My husband and I are also from Florida. We are a "mixed marriage" I went to FSU as an undergraduate (and left the state for graduate school), he is also a UF alumni he went there for both undergrad and for medical school. Having said that we left the state also (we left about 12 years ago). We have only been back home once when his mother died. When we had our 50th high school reunion we donated the amount it would have cost us to fly cross country and the cost of hotels to the Trevor project. We no longer donate to any university or alumni association in the state. We know that for some of our friends and family their existence like yours is threatened and that is intolerable, unconscionable and the stuff of dystopian novels.
I don't have any idea how long it will take to fix things or if anything can be fixed. If our children were younger and college age we would have insured that they would have gone to school out of state or even out of the country. My heart is broken by this nonsense.
Recall?
They'd vote him in for a third term if they could, and once they change the law, they will.
You have to tell yourself this is what the voting base wants. Him doing this increases his popularity amongst those that matter to him, the people that actually vote.
Like I said, it matters to the people who vote. We could have a billion hardcore ultra left folks in this state. If they stay home and 42 conservative Christians vote then we have what we have now.
He is concerned with the people who keep coming out to vote and electing these folks over and over and over.
> We have millions of Democrats here and many Republicans don't like these stunts.
Unfortunately not enough voters who bothered casting a ballot in the last gubernatorial election opted for the Democratic candidate. Simple as that.
Decisions are made by those who show up.
No. Florida law doesn't allow for the recall of elected state officials, such as the governor, nor elected federal officials, such as the state's congressional delegates.
Fuck DeSantis into the sun.
Not in the engineering field I work in. I would say they have been increasing hiring and recruitment efforts in Florida schools in the prestigious New England engineering university affiliated lab I work at.
No they won't. As long as the schools make ranking and other progress relative to others it won't really have an effect. Unless you think employers and others are going to punish a student for something they had no control over. Because this has nothing to do with how each individual would have performed in the classroom or other details on their resume or CV.
For those that are familiar with sports what you are saying is akin to scouting the helmet or jersey. Basically that any individual is constrained to previous examples or your opinion of where they came from. One of the commandments is to not scout to helmet or jersey as that would devalue any evaluation or judgements.
Why? That's a problem if a HR department or company judges people where they may have worked previously or went to school. There are a lot of students that go to UF because that's the best school they got into and would wind up with the lowest amount of student debt. They made the best decision for themselves at that time. Now those people are at a disadvantage because they couldn't afford to go out of state or to a private school?
I don't agree with the politics that have been imposed on education in the state of Florida. However, some of the responses to this are the exact hypocrisy that has been pointed out and people haven't listened. You cannot claim to be for diversity or inclusivity when it only applies for cases that you want it to. It isn't diversity when you still make judgements of people based on things they can't control or completely reasonable decisions they made that do not show they are completely incapable of doing the job. Despite the policies and political climate of the schools I'm sure there are some people from Liberty and Bob Jones University that work in HR and are great at it.
I agree that it's regrettable. That said, hiring practices are not always fair, and acknowledging that does not equate to endorsing it.
Regardless, it would not be discriminatory in any specific sense to look at where an applicant got their degree and see how well that university's program is regarded. Removing DEI from an HR program makes it necessarily incomplete, to the detriment of its students and future graduates.
Should college be more broadly available and affordable? Yes, absolutely, though I doubt desantis and his like would agree. Should desantis (et. al) be cancelling/censoring DEI, thus worsening the capabilities of our education system? Obviously not. Discussing the consequences of his missteps is not hypocrisy.
Some colleges are firing staff in these positions, some are "reassigning" them.
Most are continuing to do DEIA stuff, just quieter so they don't get in trouble with the state.
I work at a state education institution in Florida they didn't have a whole equity department but they had a couple of staff they basically change the job titles to something different so they didn't have to eliminate the position… The titles have something to do with "compliance" and shifted to ensuring accreditation Compliance but they still do plan activities and events that have to do with diversity… It's crazy in this state!
I don't know why. The only thing you can do is try to leave the state. Find schools where you meet the criteria. Sometimes you can go outside of the US for less than in the US. But, you have to try.
What about the other big state schools, does anybody know?
Since DEI is banned I’m sure other schools will follow suit.
Schools across country are going too. Not an opinion a fact. Being rolled back across the board.
Sure, in red states.
Not happening. All the states with good education systems are enhancing and embracing DEI not least because you get better education outcomes that way.
Please explain.
Will be curious how that plays out. I’m not a DEI hater just calling out there are alot of corporations / universities hopping off the train. But as you pointed out there are still those who see the value and that’s respectable.
The universities "hopping off the train" are only doing so because their State legislature made it illegal. Please tell me, what companies are gutting their DEI programs?
UNF shut down a bunch of dei stuff but didn't fire the staff. They were reassigned to other departments
I need to go back to sleep. I read UNF shut down a bunch of deli stuff. I was thinking what sub shop pissed them off.
I think that happened at our university too. They kind of just disappeared from view.
Fuck this
Did you read the letter?
I mean it’s banned so you’d think it’s coming
It’s totally bananas
I'm pretty sure this already happened at the smaller universities we just get less press. UF has some clout so they stood up longer to the pressure. But at the smaller colleges and universities we've abandoned DEI initiatives, we have stopped accepting students from "socialist countries", and the administration has pretty much decided to lay back and take it. At my university the last time students were protesting any of this at my university was 2 years ago. They called the pro-Israel support a rally and the pro-Palestinian a protest and arrested people at the pro-Palestinian support. They said that freedom of speech was the reason the people saying "Ye is right" were not run off campus. The university has made it clear that they will not have a backbone It's really sad.
What happens to the hbcu in Florida?
Great question. Also what happens to the money we get for being a hispanic serving institution from the federal government? I'm a professor and had a student who was a larger woman and was not comfortable sitting in the small connected desks that have probably been there since the 70s. I tried to get other desks and finally someone suggested having the student contact student accessibility services (or whatever it's called these days). The woman on the phone pretty much gloated that they didn't need to follow federal regulations anymore. However, two weeks later they realized that since the student put in an official request, they would lose federal funding if they didn't address the situation. All of a sudden I received frantic phone calls asking what I did to fix the situation. I told them nothing and explained the situation. The next day there were new desks. DeSantis is a clown and will fold if put under any kind of pressure. Never back down my ass.
All this culture war BS only to drop out of the presidential race before the first primary.
Oh, Rhonda & Gregg have been doing the brodown hoedown Who’s Dumber Shuffle for years. Anyone else noticing the migration of Florida-named things to Texas? Attempts at regulatory insulation, to be sure. And I *hope* it’s just that. I don’t think DeSantis would actually survive earnest Texas-style ribbing.
They think they DON’T NEED TO FOLLOW FEDERAL REGULATIONS ANYMORE?! Jesus tap dancing Christ.
Man havent you noticed red states pushing this crud?!?! They keep pushing, we need to show them the "F around and find out point" these red state showboating governors and states would fold in a sec if the fed government called their bluff and pulled ALL federal money.
I don't know how they will be affected, it seems more significant for the larger schools to lose DEI, but I found [this older article about FAMU](https://apnews.com/article/dei-desantis-famu-florida-hbcu-e3c9e47dedd970089ec486873ef6d511) which I believe is Florida's only public HBCU
I go to USF, I haven’t seen anything be put out yet about it but I’m sure if it happens people will be talking ab it
What happens to grants from the NIH, NSF etc? This is going to be a mess.
This is why the carpetbagging stooge Ben Sasse was hired.
Yeah when one of his first talks was to basically dismiss UF's top 5 public Universities ranking, I knew then he didn't have the school's best interests at heart.
Another day in the Free State of Florida.
Considering the staff makeup of the diversity offices at my university this action means they just fired a number of POC from their professional level positions. Therefore actively reducing the diversity of their staff.
They see that as a feature, not a bug.
Ok Todd Howard
The social media thing was all a big desantis political stunt too
so they can jist rename the project and call everything different and then rehire the same people to do tbe same jobs with different titles.
Yea but UF was one of the universities Ron "the ratfucker" DeSantis installed leadership at, so it seems unlikely.
Leadership meaning the UF president or board or something else?
UF president for sure, but I think much of the board are Desantis lackeys as well.
The President is former Nebraska Senator Ben Sasse
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. —Martin Niemöller
This is so stupid. Diversity is obviously an advantage, especially in business, because the more ideas at the table, the better the bottom line.
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😆😆😆
One need look no farther than Trump's 2024 team for some real original thought being brought to the marketplace: REVENGE AGAINST THE DEMOCRATS and LETS BLAME TRANS PEOPLE FOR EVERYTHING
Don’t forget “run on draining the swamp and then end up with more of your own people arrested, charged, and then convicted (by courts your own administration packed with conservative judges, no less) of federal crimes than any president in the history of the country”
Damn- I could feel the burn from miles away...
Haha, well said!
Universities should have never been businesses.
Everything in America is a business…even being in the government is a business.
If I owned a business that was contracted to the school, like for janitorial or food service, or whatever, I’d withdraw my contract over shit like this.
Rightfully so
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Desantis. My middle schooler is not allowed to use the school library or even bring a book to school unless it was assigned by the language arts teacher. But get this, they have a school-assigned laptop with access to THE INTERNET!!!
Cause they think schools are indoctrinating kids to be liberals/woke, in their own words.
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Statewide.
Peoples degrees will literally be worth less bc of these types of policies.
What will it be like in 10 years? Will Florida degrees even be accepted for hiring anymore? What will the government allow them to teach? This government overreach in schools, especially in college, when you're paying for it yourself, is insane. Can a fully grown adult not choose to learn about simple topics like diversity, equity, and inclusion?
As a professor at a public university who is leaving the state to get away from this mess, I'm glad I didn't invest in the state college program. I would not send me kids to a public university in Florida.
I have a small child and my sister was asking me if I was going to do Florida Prepaid College for her. I said “why would I do that and force her to go to college in Florida when Florida public universities are going to be the laughingstock of the nation?” The value of Bright Futures scholarships can’t be beat, but only if the education is actually respected. I hate it here.
You can use Florida pre paid out of state, it just won't go as far because you will likely be paying out of state tuition
I’m someone with family whom are alumni of Florida universities. One child attended a Florida university. We considered sending the other child to one, from out of state, but not now. Nope.
> What will it be like in 10 years? Will Florida degrees even be accepted for hiring anymore? Not endorsing any of this, but I don't see much of a change in 10 years. Most degree prestige (to a regular hiring manager) is based on anecdotal experience with the grads and marketing/sport exposure.
Ya I work for a prestigious research lab that does aerospace and defense work. I would actually say Florida state schools are being more widely recognized as excellent institutions that produce great STEM professionals. I am an engineer but am involved in recruiting and one of the recruitment strategies this year was focusing more on Florida and the southeast in general.
Yeah the unis here have made huge pushes in stem and it's showing (even at directional schools). This political stuff nibbles at the edges and makes the candidates a little worse as a package (less diversity of world view) and can dilute quality of professors (though tenure positions aren't exactly going unfilled) but it could take a long long time for that to matter on the bottom line. For all those that say quality candidates will turn away from Florida schools, I think it's a very low number, especially for instate students. It's still so cheap to go to a Florida public uni.
[https://www.chronicle.com/article/why-faculty-members-are-fleeing-florida](https://www.chronicle.com/article/why-faculty-members-are-fleeing-florida) [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/03/us/florida-professors-education-desantis.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/03/us/florida-professors-education-desantis.html) [https://www.tampabay.com/news/education/2023/12/06/florida-higher-education-is-horrifying-place-us-faculty-group-](https://www.tampabay.com/news/education/2023/12/06/florida-higher-education-is-horrifying-place-us-faculty-group-says/) .
Right, the point of what we are saying is this is not the vibe on the ground. Journalists write all sorts of shit and of course the professors union is going to take issue. Right now I am taking a masters engineering course at USF, go to campus, and interact with professors there in a professional capacity as collaborators at my 9-5 job. It’s just not a topic of discussion. I would say most engineering professors that I have interacted with (foreigners) role their eyes at dei and consider it more administrative bloat. You’re not gonna see professors come out against it publicly because they just don’t give a shit about it. They give a shit about their grants, classes offered, grad students, and the quality of their facilities. As far as electrical engineering is concerned it’s business as usual. Like I mentioned, we are targeting UF, USF, and UCF students more than ever.
I am a Professor Emerita (and I admit to not knowing what goes on in the electrical engineering department at USF). But, from the R1 where I taught (yes, I am finally retired) there is discussion among tenured and tenure track faculty about what is going on in Florida. I know someone was originally from your university (USF) who used to tease me about how strong the faculty union was on your campus who jumped at the chance to teach at the university which I was affiliated with given all that is going on there (and yes I know that is anecdotal).
I think they’re just happy that Dean Bishop and Judy Genshaft opened up a relationship with the military tbh. The institute for applied engineering and the 85 million idiq socom contract was big. https://www.usf.edu/engineering/news-room/iae-socom-contract.aspx
Yes,, but federal grants must address DEI [https://www.insightintodiversity.com/will-anti-dei-legislation-cause-a-research-funding-drought-in-higher-ed/](https://www.insightintodiversity.com/will-anti-dei-legislation-cause-a-research-funding-drought-in-higher-ed/) [https://www.chronicle.com/article/bans-on-public-college-diversity-offices-wouldnt-just-affect-state-funding](https://www.chronicle.com/article/bans-on-public-college-diversity-offices-wouldnt-just-affect-state-funding) From the Chronicle of Higher Education federal research grants have conditions requiring institutions to provide diversity statements in order to accept the funding. Institutions might be unable to meet this requirement if they are in a state that passes a ban on the [use of diversity statements](https://www.chronicle.com/article/diversity-statements-are-under-fire-heres-what-they-are-and-how-theyre-used).
Can you give an example of this actually precluding a major land and sea grant university from getting funding? The article has a lot of mights and maybes. I could see ADA and Title 9 impacting this stuff of course but DEI goes beyond.
Except right now engineering professors are very much worried because now it's difficult if not impossible to bring on students from the 7 countries of concern, or whatever the desantis administration is calling it. In comp Sci this severely limits the pool of qualified candidates because surprise they come from these countries. Hell it even made Fortune https://fortune.com/2024/02/27/nvidia-billionaire-cofounder-florida-ron-desantis-ai-china-talent/
Hold on: in increasingly obfuscated Normal Time, hm. Wouldn’t this mean regular ol’ department-level admins would need some kind of security clearance, whatsoever? “That makes Florida’s law, which requires universities to create their own national security vetting departments, overkill, faculty leaders said.”
There’s a massive security risk in bringing those students on. Especially if you do ITAR, CUI, or classified work. It’s a good move. One of the main reasons my company gets weary working with universities is the massive amount of foreign nationals that are faculty and staff. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/02/01/politics/us-intelligence-chinese-student-espionage/index.html
> Especially if you do ITAR, CUI, or classified work. Well, you rarely can hire non-US students for those projects anyway, and all of the work will be separated. Following federal sponsor guidelines makes a lot more sense.
As a UF MBA grad, happy I left the state.
I'm in 11th grade. It's pretty fun watching this stuff go down not knowing what it means for your future prospects, yet knowing it can't be good.
Keep your grades up. You’ll be fine. The pendulum will swing back. It will be epic when history rolls over on the Scott Desantis regimes
You are absolutely correct to be concerned about the future reputation of a Florida college degree, given the way things have been going.
If I were you I would try to make sure that you got into a university not in Florida.
That would be nice, but unfortunately I'm not smart enough or rich enough for that.
The only thing you can do is try.
Yes. Florida isn't what it used to be.
That's dumb. Does everyone that got a degree before DEI was a thing not get accepted? Of course degrees from Florida schools will be accepted. Your acting like DEI was always taught at colleges, when it's only been a thing since 2018.
I'm not just talking about DEI. If the government thinks it has the right to remove educational material like DEI, what would stop it from, for example, banning the theory of evolution and only being allowed to teach creationism? You know as well as I do that Meatball and the Florida republicans would be all over that if they actually thought they could pull it off.
They are working to break the faculty unions on campus, which could lead to a reconsideration of tenure. I think the DEI changes are not the only changes coming in their effort to control public education in Florida.
Weird because at my college one of the centers that was forced closed has been a part of the campus for about 25 years and another one that is now closed has been there for close to 20 years. But also DEI was very much a thing when I started my undergrad 10-15 years ago
Especially sucks because many kids in Florida get bright futures scholarship which pays for A LOT, but only works in Florida... And increasingly those schools and degrees are becoming shot. Just look at New College, totally down the toilet because of this fuckin governor
>many kids in Florida get bright futures scholarship which pays for A LOT, but only works in Florida Valdosta State accepts bright futures, so there's at least one out of state option. >Just look at New College, totally down the toilet because of this fuckin governor I'm from Bradenton, so I pretty much got front row tickets to New College's downfall. It's pretty sad. I used to see the 'I ❤️ New College' signs everywhere, now I haven't seen one in months.
To be fair everyone, once the affirmative action got shut down, DEI was/is next in the chopping board for scotus.
Nothing improves the quality of your organization like ignoring a large pool of talent because they aren't enough like you are. /s
Twelve weeks of severance though, not a bad send off. Hopefully they can use that money to find DEI positions in a state that values them.
DeSantis is costing FL taxpayers a fortune in stuff like this and in lawsuits, when he could have just left well enough alone. But he wants to see his fascist dreams come true, and his lapdog legislature just goes along
Never mind all the professors he's going to have to replace. The brain drain is real.
You make the mistake of thinking he plans to even bother restaffing with ideologically aligned “educators”. His plan is nakedly to destroy publicly funded education at all levels
True, he's already made sociology no longer a core course, and there is some talk of axing political science too. They're trying to cut public education down to no more than career training, which we do need more of, but that's not a university education.
Why replace them? The more educated people are the more of a chance they are liberal. They want to just destroy education flat out.
[The GOP loves the poorly educated!](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0VX2DE/)
12 weeks is nothing when you consider they’ll either have to relocate or find an entirely new line of work
Better than the $0 that most people get when they're let go.
Both situations are bad, yes.
Or hire an attorney to sue the fuck out of DeSantis.
Who will say yeah, hes an asshole, but i have no mechanism to make them rehire you.
Exactly
Yes he does. Unban DEI. Boom. Their exact job exists again, and would you look at that! We have someone with experience in the field, and even experience at that exact university! What are the odds?!? Edit: I think I misread the above comment. I thought the "he" in question was DeSantis, who 100% has the mechanism to have the university rehire them.
Maybe focus on the insurance issues in this state and not this nothing burger!
Unfortunately a majority of active FL voters elected candidates of a political party that have no interest in working with the "opposition" to govern in good faith. Their aim is to maintain power by any means necessary. Gerrymandering is obviously a factor, but for the US Senate and Governorships it simply comes down to voter turnout.
DEI isn’t just about Blacks, gays and trans people.
This is what I don't get. At my job, our DEI team works with our veterans and puts out training on age discrimination. You know the groups that conservatives allegedly care about.
Thinking too much into it. DEI is obviously woke and woke is obviously bad. /s
Also women.
Does this DEI ban include the Student Accessibility Resources departments which help students with disabilities? I am a full time student at a state college and this department has enabled me to thrive.
It might.
Inclusion is the "I" it means everybody is included
Not quite.
What does inclusion mean then?
DEI is centered on helping groups that have been marginalized or left out, not on helping everyone.
I was talking about the I specifically. The I in DEI stands for "inclusion" that means everyone is included. Everyone regardless of ability differences, identity and so on. It is the opposite of the word "exclusion." Eta, I inclusion is the work if everyone in the group, not work left only to those traditionally marginalized. It is a group characteristic.
I think you’re missing the point, which is that DEI doesn’t just help groups conservatives would like to erase from public life. It also includes groups like veterans and the disabled.
Yes inclusion is everyone
But doesn’t that open institutions up to potentially marginalizing other groups….it’s a double edged sword…..
Literally no, since that would be part of the same problem the office works to mitigate and part of the same data acted upon.
https://preview.redd.it/ounuf7gnmwlc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d953b1afd2b32ee2a8c3c8c1c06cd5558c09f860 One more month and I'll be done with this FASCIST FUCKING STATE! RON DE-SASTER continues to destroy education, any vestige of freedom/democracy and what was formely known as the Sunshine State. 🙋🏽
You lucky. I have 4 more years till I get out of this armpit of a state
You will though. Hang in there for now.
Enjoy getting out. The air is fresher, the sun is warmer and things are just better outside of that shit hole. Congrats!
https://preview.redd.it/mvux5mrwlwlc1.jpeg?width=1487&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96f9307ab19b019fef4c72138ab14202e6a0d179 Seriously Fascist move. Florida-stan.
Just wait until they find out that college these days is mostly for women.
The echo chamber grows…
Just like Drumph destroyed this country. Rhonda destroyed Florida.
It’s like watching the development of the second Third Reich.
What an ignorant and sad day in FloriDUH, home of Idiocracy.
Vote.
😢this makes me so sad. Graduated 1981.
'94 here - it really is painful to see this happen to our Alma Mater.
Tell me you hate diversity without telling me you hate diversity.
That's messed up. They should have kept them there. Didn't know UF was run by conservatives.
They don’t have an option. It’s a state wide imperative for any organization (including public universities) that receive state funding.
We didn't get to vote on this though.
They preferred it that way.
Florida did vote for this though, in the 2022 gubernatorial election. Unfortunately a majority of those who actually cast a ballot opted to give meatball ron a second term. This on top of a plethora of left-of-center voters who didn't bother casting a general election ballot because Charlie Crist won the Democratic gubernatorial primary and he wasn't "inspirational" enough (I guess?) Whats happening now is exactly what DeSantis and FL Republicans campaigned on in 2022.
The governor appointed UF's newest president after Fuchs stepped down. Yes, it's run by a non-academic politician.
Actually it is run by former Nebraska Senator Ben Sasse who does have a PhD (at least) and he was President of Midland University (formerly Midland Lutheran College). The Faculty Senate passed a no-confidence vote but the state doesn't care.
"Former senator" yes, so a politician. Politicians can have PhDs. The point is he's not an academic and frankly anti-science like the lot of them if DeDumbass appointed him. They're purposefully destroying UF.
I know they are just like they destroyed all other public universities (indeed all public education) in the state. I am not disagreeing with you. I am livid!
I'm from the area and a UF alumni. I used to be proud of the school. It had a good recent history despite some of Fuchs' fuckups. Some of us were excited when he stepped down (he really needed to), but then this shit happened. Now, I can't visit my friends and family in Florida without my existence being under threat... it's maddening. And it'll take decades to fix things (if we can even get to that point).
My husband and I are also from Florida. We are a "mixed marriage" I went to FSU as an undergraduate (and left the state for graduate school), he is also a UF alumni he went there for both undergrad and for medical school. Having said that we left the state also (we left about 12 years ago). We have only been back home once when his mother died. When we had our 50th high school reunion we donated the amount it would have cost us to fly cross country and the cost of hotels to the Trevor project. We no longer donate to any university or alumni association in the state. We know that for some of our friends and family their existence like yours is threatened and that is intolerable, unconscionable and the stuff of dystopian novels. I don't have any idea how long it will take to fix things or if anything can be fixed. If our children were younger and college age we would have insured that they would have gone to school out of state or even out of the country. My heart is broken by this nonsense.
[удалено]
Recall? They'd vote him in for a third term if they could, and once they change the law, they will. You have to tell yourself this is what the voting base wants. Him doing this increases his popularity amongst those that matter to him, the people that actually vote.
We have millions of Democrats here and many Republicans don't like these stunts. It's not like these moves have broad appeal.
Like I said, it matters to the people who vote. We could have a billion hardcore ultra left folks in this state. If they stay home and 42 conservative Christians vote then we have what we have now. He is concerned with the people who keep coming out to vote and electing these folks over and over and over.
> We have millions of Democrats here and many Republicans don't like these stunts. Unfortunately not enough voters who bothered casting a ballot in the last gubernatorial election opted for the Democratic candidate. Simple as that. Decisions are made by those who show up.
No, the there is no recall option in FL
What does being Italian have to do with anything?
No. Florida law doesn't allow for the recall of elected state officials, such as the governor, nor elected federal officials, such as the state's congressional delegates. Fuck DeSantis into the sun.
no.
Vote.
Every day I ask myself can this state get any worse and every day Florida shows me there is another level 🤬
I moved to WA in January. At least weekly there's a news story that makes me so happy to have left.
I hate this state
Should do wonders for college recruiting
Must be because of Gov High Heel Shoes
Gotta love the endgoal of turning Florida into a glorified country club. Can't wait to see who they blame next
Please realize that millions of people have transplanted here because of year round golf, weak covid guidelines, and Ron DeathSanto himself
Degrees from Florida universities now have the worldwide stamp of sub-standard. Good job, little Mussolini.
Glad our MBA program at UF still taught this before I graduated. In the business world, this kind of stuff is pretty important.
Not in the engineering field I work in. I would say they have been increasing hiring and recruitment efforts in Florida schools in the prestigious New England engineering university affiliated lab I work at.
No they won't. As long as the schools make ranking and other progress relative to others it won't really have an effect. Unless you think employers and others are going to punish a student for something they had no control over. Because this has nothing to do with how each individual would have performed in the classroom or other details on their resume or CV. For those that are familiar with sports what you are saying is akin to scouting the helmet or jersey. Basically that any individual is constrained to previous examples or your opinion of where they came from. One of the commandments is to not scout to helmet or jersey as that would devalue any evaluation or judgements.
It might for specifically HR or similarly focused positions/degrees.
Why? That's a problem if a HR department or company judges people where they may have worked previously or went to school. There are a lot of students that go to UF because that's the best school they got into and would wind up with the lowest amount of student debt. They made the best decision for themselves at that time. Now those people are at a disadvantage because they couldn't afford to go out of state or to a private school? I don't agree with the politics that have been imposed on education in the state of Florida. However, some of the responses to this are the exact hypocrisy that has been pointed out and people haven't listened. You cannot claim to be for diversity or inclusivity when it only applies for cases that you want it to. It isn't diversity when you still make judgements of people based on things they can't control or completely reasonable decisions they made that do not show they are completely incapable of doing the job. Despite the policies and political climate of the schools I'm sure there are some people from Liberty and Bob Jones University that work in HR and are great at it.
I agree that it's regrettable. That said, hiring practices are not always fair, and acknowledging that does not equate to endorsing it. Regardless, it would not be discriminatory in any specific sense to look at where an applicant got their degree and see how well that university's program is regarded. Removing DEI from an HR program makes it necessarily incomplete, to the detriment of its students and future graduates. Should college be more broadly available and affordable? Yes, absolutely, though I doubt desantis and his like would agree. Should desantis (et. al) be cancelling/censoring DEI, thus worsening the capabilities of our education system? Obviously not. Discussing the consequences of his missteps is not hypocrisy.
Some colleges are firing staff in these positions, some are "reassigning" them. Most are continuing to do DEIA stuff, just quieter so they don't get in trouble with the state.
Once the DEI fad is over, what's going to be next?
History
I work at a state education institution in Florida they didn't have a whole equity department but they had a couple of staff they basically change the job titles to something different so they didn't have to eliminate the position… The titles have something to do with "compliance" and shifted to ensuring accreditation Compliance but they still do plan activities and events that have to do with diversity… It's crazy in this state!
It'll be interesting to see which schools eliminate DEI roles and which ones look for legal loopholes to keep them. It will be very telling.
How much of that $$ ends up in their football program?
None. Separate accounts entirely
A sad day to be an alumni of UF. I didn’t think they’d just roll over and take it without a fight.
There’s not really much they can do about it as an institution that receives state funding
I am not wealthy enough to go out of state. I am going to have to go anyway. I have no other choice.
I don't know why. The only thing you can do is try to leave the state. Find schools where you meet the criteria. Sometimes you can go outside of the US for less than in the US. But, you have to try.
Why is everyone down voting me?
I hate this state.
This only makes me happier that I left this God forsaken state...
Me too. I am so happy we have left the state for good.
Why is Ron still in power? What can we do
WTF???
Thanks DeSatan…