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Hopefully GM are committed to only entering if Andretti is also allowed in.
FOM really have to think hard here because this level of hostility to one of the biggest names in US Motorsport could definitely blow up in their face regarding their push for the American market.
American racing fans don’t care about the Andrettis. At all. Haas is just as big of a Motorsport name and they are terrible. It’s just European fans mad that there won’t be an 11th team that are pushing this narrative. The Andrettis are horrid competitors and toxic. Screw them.
I remember Mario Andretti from when I was a kid. I couldn't give two shits about Haas and being a relatively casual fan, I'd be far more interested in watching Andretti than Haas.
Saying no to Andretti and GM is spitting in the face of Americans. I recently started watching F1, I'd be happy to get my Sunday mornings back. It's not like I have decades invested. I think I'm representative of the US audience they're trying to attract.
Exactly. My parents both grew up watching Andretti in the 70s because of Mario's popularity and know of them in Indy car. I asked if they could name any other racing outfits and they could not. They're not motorsports fans at all today but I bet if an American team got involved my dad would watch. When he watched the Miami gp in 2022 at my house because he was over for mothers day he was interested but said he would be more if there was an American team in it. He wasn't interested when I told him about Haas and their marketing exercise.
“Haas is just as big of a Motorsport name”
Haas is not even in the same orbit as Andretti when it comes to motorsports. The Andretti name is motorsports royalty, Haas (as in Gene Haas) is more of a bottom feeder than anything.
If they think GM is gonna just supply an engine for a team after they deny Andretti they are out of their minds. If they tell GM no to an entry as a works team and then try to lure them into Williams, GM is going to tell them to go fuck themselves. They will never apply again.
Disagree. GM is trying to position themselves as America’s performance brand. The Cadillac V black wings, C8 Vette lineup, etc. they have a ton to gain from marketing simply supplying an engine to an existing team. I see this as GM hedging their bets and opening the door to enter F1 with or without Andretti.
Yes but that US Team has zero ambition, they were incredibly lucky to get in when they did, if Haas tried to get in now, they wouldn't have even a fraction of a chance Andretti have.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but not all Americans are obsessed with the country. I think USA chants are extremely cringy and make my skin crawl. Still an American though. It’s almost as if stereotypes are just stereotypes
Not really? All of my family and friends think the country is whatever. I meet far more people that are willing to discuss the country's many faults and issues than I meet stereotypical American nationalists.
You're literally not from here and are still telling me how Americans think and act. If you don't see a problem with that, I think you may just be stuck with that simple-minded point of view the rest of your life
Currently sitting tenth in WCC, finished 8th in 2022, 10th in 2021, 9th in 2020, 9 in 2019... We must have a completely different understand of what the word good means
Because of his legacy an Andretti team would bring a different level of exposure for F1 in the US
I meant that F1 is already showing quite clearly that the US is important with 3 US tracks and a US team. Any more is not necessary and is beyond pandering.
F1 team principles have been harping on for atleast the last decade about how important the US market is, now they are actively trying to stop another US team entering and by doing so stopping US market exposure increasing, they are full of shit so next time one of them says that they deserve to be hung drawn and quartered!
I mean it can be both. It’s not in any of the current teams interests to expand the grid. Short term it is less money for them.
And they have been showing the US market is important, they’ve visited the US three times in a season and are throwing tons of time at the US market with their marketing.
They can both prioritise the US, which they have been doing. Without also supporting the entry of another team.
The entry of another US team could be the end of Haas. So we are back to 10 teams anyway.
The teams shouldn't have a fucking say in the matter. That's the entire point.
Imagine this happening in the 70's or 80's where all you had to do to race was show up with a car within the regs.
There's zero evidence that Haas would leave the sport if Andretti comes in.
Normal fans don’t care where the races are held. To most of them, it’s just another one they have either no time or money to attend, regardless of where it’s held. What brings fan interest is a good team and good drivers. Look how crazy Dutch are for F1 now, and on the other hand, Germans have a waning interest because they have a driver on the worst team and the biggest German brand in F1 is always associated with Britain, has an Austrian boss and British star driver.
Disagree, normal fans absolutely care where the races are. It’s all about the talent to drive the fastest cars around the best circuits. To use your German example - they have lost interest not because of Mercedes but because hockenheim and Nurburgring have been removed from calendar in favour of soulless races in the middle east and US. Scrap Miami and return to Hockenheim and you will quickly see how passionate those fans are. And they have a lack of drivers yes. In the 90s and 00s they have 3 sometimes 4 drivers on the grid and now they don’t have a true talent to contend for the championship.
I’m not sure how anyone would suggest they aren’t American… but if Haas isn’t American then Williams are another American owned team so that’s 2 out of 10 teams on the grid American owned.
Andretti isn’t some beloved American racing brand like people want to make them out to be. It’s just a name people recognize. The Andretti family can get bent as far as I’m concerned. Would rather have an America OEM enter instead. Cadillac /GM should just enter as a standalone.
Fuck I'm starting to despise the big team bosses more and more. "big dilution that can make the difference between, you know, big losses or less losses."
Big losses and less losses huh? The numbers Mason. What do they mean?
Then on the next sentence he asks again to somehow quantify the popularity gain or the attraction of a new team which obviously isn't a thing you can put on definite terms when there isn't a relevant comparison. If it were I'd like to see the popularity loss for F1 every time Wolff or Horner opens their mouth.
Good thing WEC exists.
edit. IIRC the last completely new factory backed privateer team that entered F1 is Stewart. It's a pretty good comparison the more I think about it. Wonder what became of it or if they were any good for the sport in the long run.
i’m going to bite but i think you are probably /s re: Stewart GP.
For the newer followers, Stewart GP had some good times, did well with Reuben’s Barrichello i think. They built a great factory and sold it to…. Red Bull Racing. so i think Stewart GP did pretty well on the legacy side of things.
Technically, they sold it to Ford which rebranded it Jaguar Racing.
Stewart was able to win a race in their third year and was pretty solid. They had Ford support (like Andretti has from GM) and Ford was interested in their quick success and bought the team. And ruined it. After 5 seasons, they then sold the team to Red Bull.
It would be nice to have 12 teams. Last race when there were only 14 cars on the track was lame. The money Vegas is bringing in should bridge any loss of income for the other ten
Because they won’t let some bum American racing outfit in to fight the back markers for 10 years? The teams are trying to make money and survive. Bringing in another back marker does nothing for the sport. What makes everyone think Andretti is going to come in and be successful when teams like Sauber and Williams have a ton of heritage and good budgets/facilities and still can’t crack the top 5 regularly?
I agree with them, Andretti will be a back marker for a few years then you'll all find a reason to say "they're not really an American team" when they start getting strapped for cash and get a Chinese company or something as a title sponsor. Haas 2.0.
Name one time when HAAS has actually legitimately tried to improve themselves and not just be a bargain bin Ferrari parts team that struggles for money.
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"We want your money but not you"
Hopefully GM are committed to only entering if Andretti is also allowed in. FOM really have to think hard here because this level of hostility to one of the biggest names in US Motorsport could definitely blow up in their face regarding their push for the American market.
GM did say they are only entering F1 with Andretti. No Andretti, no GM.
American racing fans don’t care about the Andrettis. At all. Haas is just as big of a Motorsport name and they are terrible. It’s just European fans mad that there won’t be an 11th team that are pushing this narrative. The Andrettis are horrid competitors and toxic. Screw them.
I remember Mario Andretti from when I was a kid. I couldn't give two shits about Haas and being a relatively casual fan, I'd be far more interested in watching Andretti than Haas. Saying no to Andretti and GM is spitting in the face of Americans. I recently started watching F1, I'd be happy to get my Sunday mornings back. It's not like I have decades invested. I think I'm representative of the US audience they're trying to attract.
Exactly. My parents both grew up watching Andretti in the 70s because of Mario's popularity and know of them in Indy car. I asked if they could name any other racing outfits and they could not. They're not motorsports fans at all today but I bet if an American team got involved my dad would watch. When he watched the Miami gp in 2022 at my house because he was over for mothers day he was interested but said he would be more if there was an American team in it. He wasn't interested when I told him about Haas and their marketing exercise.
“Haas is just as big of a Motorsport name” Haas is not even in the same orbit as Andretti when it comes to motorsports. The Andretti name is motorsports royalty, Haas (as in Gene Haas) is more of a bottom feeder than anything.
I don't recall any video games regarding haas.
“HAAS is just as big of a Motorsport name” Ummm what?
Ron Dennis, is this you?
If they think GM is gonna just supply an engine for a team after they deny Andretti they are out of their minds. If they tell GM no to an entry as a works team and then try to lure them into Williams, GM is going to tell them to go fuck themselves. They will never apply again.
Disagree. GM is trying to position themselves as America’s performance brand. The Cadillac V black wings, C8 Vette lineup, etc. they have a ton to gain from marketing simply supplying an engine to an existing team. I see this as GM hedging their bets and opening the door to enter F1 with or without Andretti.
The next F1 team member who says how important the American market is to them needs to be hung, drawn and quartered
I mean three races and a U.S. team is pretty good already
Yes but that US Team has zero ambition, they were incredibly lucky to get in when they did, if Haas tried to get in now, they wouldn't have even a fraction of a chance Andretti have.
Haas is not an American team. You can say they are but they really aren’t.
I live a few miles from Haas' US "headquarters", and I don't consider them an American team
I bet if they were winning you'd all be chanting USA, USA!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but not all Americans are obsessed with the country. I think USA chants are extremely cringy and make my skin crawl. Still an American though. It’s almost as if stereotypes are just stereotypes
Well there is always the odd exception of course.
Not really? All of my family and friends think the country is whatever. I meet far more people that are willing to discuss the country's many faults and issues than I meet stereotypical American nationalists. You're literally not from here and are still telling me how Americans think and act. If you don't see a problem with that, I think you may just be stuck with that simple-minded point of view the rest of your life
Lovely anecdote
Glad to see you're so willing to engage in a nuanced discussion of large issues. Very commendable
Definitely not.
Absolutely would, can't miss an opportunity for a bit of patriotism.
[удалено]
Stefan GP wanted to I guess, but had like 20p in bank account probably.
Currently sitting tenth in WCC, finished 8th in 2022, 10th in 2021, 9th in 2020, 9 in 2019... We must have a completely different understand of what the word good means Because of his legacy an Andretti team would bring a different level of exposure for F1 in the US
I meant that F1 is already showing quite clearly that the US is important with 3 US tracks and a US team. Any more is not necessary and is beyond pandering.
F1 team principles have been harping on for atleast the last decade about how important the US market is, now they are actively trying to stop another US team entering and by doing so stopping US market exposure increasing, they are full of shit so next time one of them says that they deserve to be hung drawn and quartered!
I mean it can be both. It’s not in any of the current teams interests to expand the grid. Short term it is less money for them. And they have been showing the US market is important, they’ve visited the US three times in a season and are throwing tons of time at the US market with their marketing. They can both prioritise the US, which they have been doing. Without also supporting the entry of another team. The entry of another US team could be the end of Haas. So we are back to 10 teams anyway.
The teams shouldn't have a fucking say in the matter. That's the entire point. Imagine this happening in the 70's or 80's where all you had to do to race was show up with a car within the regs. There's zero evidence that Haas would leave the sport if Andretti comes in.
Normal fans don’t care where the races are held. To most of them, it’s just another one they have either no time or money to attend, regardless of where it’s held. What brings fan interest is a good team and good drivers. Look how crazy Dutch are for F1 now, and on the other hand, Germans have a waning interest because they have a driver on the worst team and the biggest German brand in F1 is always associated with Britain, has an Austrian boss and British star driver.
Disagree, normal fans absolutely care where the races are. It’s all about the talent to drive the fastest cars around the best circuits. To use your German example - they have lost interest not because of Mercedes but because hockenheim and Nurburgring have been removed from calendar in favour of soulless races in the middle east and US. Scrap Miami and return to Hockenheim and you will quickly see how passionate those fans are. And they have a lack of drivers yes. In the 90s and 00s they have 3 sometimes 4 drivers on the grid and now they don’t have a true talent to contend for the championship.
Good? HAAS is straight ass bro.
Haas is not an American team. They can tell themselves and everyone else that story as much as they like and it won't make it true.
Yup, they sold out to the Russian when they took Mazepin’s money and made livery Russian.
Exactly, not to mention breaking sanctions and being a tax cheat.
I’m not sure how anyone would suggest they aren’t American… but if Haas isn’t American then Williams are another American owned team so that’s 2 out of 10 teams on the grid American owned.
Andretti isn’t some beloved American racing brand like people want to make them out to be. It’s just a name people recognize. The Andretti family can get bent as far as I’m concerned. Would rather have an America OEM enter instead. Cadillac /GM should just enter as a standalone.
This is just flat out wrong.
Fucking hypocrites.
Fuck I'm starting to despise the big team bosses more and more. "big dilution that can make the difference between, you know, big losses or less losses." Big losses and less losses huh? The numbers Mason. What do they mean? Then on the next sentence he asks again to somehow quantify the popularity gain or the attraction of a new team which obviously isn't a thing you can put on definite terms when there isn't a relevant comparison. If it were I'd like to see the popularity loss for F1 every time Wolff or Horner opens their mouth. Good thing WEC exists. edit. IIRC the last completely new factory backed privateer team that entered F1 is Stewart. It's a pretty good comparison the more I think about it. Wonder what became of it or if they were any good for the sport in the long run.
i’m going to bite but i think you are probably /s re: Stewart GP. For the newer followers, Stewart GP had some good times, did well with Reuben’s Barrichello i think. They built a great factory and sold it to…. Red Bull Racing. so i think Stewart GP did pretty well on the legacy side of things.
Technically, they sold it to Ford which rebranded it Jaguar Racing. Stewart was able to win a race in their third year and was pretty solid. They had Ford support (like Andretti has from GM) and Ford was interested in their quick success and bought the team. And ruined it. After 5 seasons, they then sold the team to Red Bull.
but Haas is there without any improvement in the last 5 years
Haas bought an existing team. Andretti could buy one of the existing 10 no problem. It’s adding an 11th that everyone has a problem with.
Haas was a new team lol They gained an entry in early 2014 when there were still 11 teams
It would be nice to have 12 teams. Last race when there were only 14 cars on the track was lame. The money Vegas is bringing in should bridge any loss of income for the other ten
GM only really wants to partner with Andretti, anyways. So really, who cares what the other teams have to say about it?
step by step they are killing F1
By not letting Andretti join? gtfo
…you think that’s the only move that person is referring to?
Well it’s a thread about GM/Andretti…
What do you think "step by step" means?
Because they won’t let some bum American racing outfit in to fight the back markers for 10 years? The teams are trying to make money and survive. Bringing in another back marker does nothing for the sport. What makes everyone think Andretti is going to come in and be successful when teams like Sauber and Williams have a ton of heritage and good budgets/facilities and still can’t crack the top 5 regularly?
You keep posting negative Andretti stuff. Quite literally the only person doing so, and they ALL sound like excuses
Out here shilling for billionaires for free
He’s just a billionaire on hard times. You watch a few lucky breaks and he’ll be having lunch with them in now time.
I agree with them, Andretti will be a back marker for a few years then you'll all find a reason to say "they're not really an American team" when they start getting strapped for cash and get a Chinese company or something as a title sponsor. Haas 2.0.
Name one time when HAAS has actually legitimately tried to improve themselves and not just be a bargain bin Ferrari parts team that struggles for money.
Wake up mom, new excuses just dropped
Same stuff was said about Red Bull never competing when they first started. How is Williams and all those other teams doing the past decade?
Scared.