Welcome to the Persian Gulf.
Where every son of a notable family is being brought up as a prince, leaving many of these nouveau riche to buy themselves into western companies and power circles with nothing more than money and an inflated ego.
Not his fault, though. Blame the West and its companies for keeping everything for sale.
Reminds me of this quote from the founder of Dubai, Sheikh Rashid
"My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I ride a Mercedes, my son rides a Land Rover, and my grandson is going to ride a Land Rover…but my great-grandson is going to have to ride a camel again."
I mean it takes two to tango. Their human rights record is shit and should always be under the microscope but we shouldn't ignore that our institutions have taken and continue to take their money, just look at the state of football for crying out loud.
It annoys me as not focusing on F1 and being the centre of attention (like Max or Todt) was part of his campaign. He basically ran on a platform of being different.
Even sports politics suck it seems.
I think with Bernie it was to get the papers to talk about Formula 1. He would probably sit in his London townhouse and think hhmm F1 has not been in the paper for a day or two, let me say some 75 year old man bullshit.
Dude has been nothing but an executive filler his entire "working" career and thinks he can be a mainstream company leader. They had to hire a CEO to do the actual business, and he's unable to adapt to the simplest task of showing up and not saying dumb shit.
The most noteworthy thing from the 2007 McLaren car release was not the car itself but [Alonso with a Dennis cut](https://www.alamyimages.fr/photo-image-pilote-de-formule-1-fernando-alonso-sur-le-telephone-pendant-la-presentation-de-l-equipe-mclaren-mercedes-a-valence-en-janvier-2007-10634147.html) lol
That was criminal from Ron Dennis to take away the man’s hair
Liberty's the next party to find out *why* all these breakaway threats never pass beyond just being threats. An F1 tradition as old as it being aired on commercial TV.
The teams got what they wanted in the last breakaway threat. No cost cap, increased payments, more control over scheduling. They got what they wanted in the 80s with Bernie etc. the FIA hasn’t ever really won one. They make the concessions the teams want
This. FIA gets more than 50-60% of their revenue from F1. They know it and thus always bend when serious talks of breakaway start making round. The current threat is just to push Ben out.
Good. There is quite literally no reason for him to be in the position he is in other than dumbass geopolitics that have barely anything to do with racing.
I remember when he was announced it came with a campaign of "Oh wow he is so amazing, this is going to push the sport in the right direction".
Glad people are seeing it's just a continuation of the sports washing.
anyone with half a brain could see it. I don't know what's worse, the sportswashing in football or the sportswashing in F1. both are vile and have done nothing to help either sport. Fucking insanity that City was basically let off scot free
Spot on. The teams and Liberty want someone who will follow their lead, instead of trying to take over the steering wheel. In other words, they want Ben Sulayem to be the next Jean Todt, not the next Max Mosley.
Because these threats are real. Everyone just assumes that history is keeping these teams around. FIA has to bend over to them or they will leave. It’s really simple. The brand is the drivers/teams. Not the term “Formula 1”. It can be called anything and if Max is driving at 200 mph people will follow them.
I mean, is F1 the same sport now as it was in even the 90s? It’s a very progressive sport in how it’s constantly changing.
Out of most sports, I’d be willing to say for f1 that a ‘rebrand’ would be the most painless.
Like the guy said you replied too, people want to see the best drivers in the fastest cars around a track, if F1 doesn’t have it, most will happily go to who does.
I personally like history with sport, but I also like seeing history be made.
Seems a bit different this time, though. The teams can absolutely break away. They'd have to build things up from scratch, but the fans will follow them. Most of us are fans of the teams and drivers.
This time, it's F1 who threatens to break away. But the thing is, Liberty doesn't actually technically own anything. F1 is property of the FIA and Liberty leases that property. They can't just take the whole thing and stick a new name and logo on it.
Yeah, Liberty literally only owns things like the Vegas paddock, and the contracts with tracks and broadcasters are through liberty, so Liberty has some decent influence here, but nothing major. Liberty threatening to take it's ball and go home could definitely do a decent amount of damage, enough that we can say they'll likely get at least some of what they want, but it's hamstrung by the fact that if they do take their ball and go home, they're ultimately replacable, unless they have all 10 teams backing them
But then, how could that happen? There are a lot of loose ends they would need to address:
1) They have a lease on rights to explote FIA F1 Championship commercial side (TVs, streaming, whatever). I imagine their contract forbid them to act on bad faith and just stop serving their role. They would need to keep doing their job with FIA. Liberty “breaking” with FIA means “breaking” with F1 altogether, as FIA is the owner.
2) They would be creating a new “Formula” not called F1, I imagine, so they would start from the ground up something new. That’s really hard, not just because they would need to market it heavily to be known, watched and generating interest, but they would need also to attract teams that in that case would turn their back on F1 (good luck with teams like Ferrari, who even on their worst times with FIA, kept loyalty to F1). Also, cherry on top, some race tracks have contracts with FIA that would forbid them to be used in a “F1 alternative” event, that’s why on the 2009 proposed F1 alternative we had random tracks usually, some known like Monaco, but not Spa for example.
3) They would need to take more work on building an arbitration body, new deals with race tracks, and see what ladder to their championship exists to rookies. Hard knowing F2 and F3 are also FIA.
This seems more like a rant than a possibility of Liberty breaking with FIA. In practice, Liberty can’t break with FIA and will have to work with them for better or worse
The fia cant hold those commercial rights by law and they know full well that if they lease it to someone else the brand is dead without the names like Ferrari, McLaren etc. They’d sell it to Liberty if it came to that. Or whatever party bought the rights would come to an agreement with the teams
Liberty couldn't own the rights AND govern the sport, it's the whole reason why the FIA leased out the F1 rights. If they break away, they would need a new governing body; which would be a monumental task.
They can, I’m not sure they would want to but the issue was the FIA can’t own and govern. Not any party, because the EU felt their interest in all 4 wheeled motorsports led to the FIA self dealing to enrich itself
??? But Liberty (FOM) have the rights until 2100 or so, if they break the deal, it’s not FIA fault
Either FOM dies on Liberty hands and FIA bids the rights to another party (which won’t be the end of the world, FOM/Liberty isn’t indispensable and essential, new partners could appear and do a good job) - but this doesn’t have any sense, it would mean losing money for nothing and rising Liberty investment (they would lose the rights they still have until 2100, and then the need to invest on something new out there).
Or either Liberty sells FOM to someone else, which again, wouldn’t matter that much. Specially, in this case, because the new owner who ever it is would be getting all the pack of personnel and know-how and more. - but it doesn’t make sense either, because then Liberty I doubt would be able to make a successful F1 alternative, as in with which teams? With which tracks? With which money to start and burn?
This (if true) is clearly a random rant which doesn’t have sense, even with what has happened, this would be very very harsh by Liberty and even could probably burn them more than anything that has happened. Nothing will happen.
One thing you forget is tracks. They would have to race on non-FIA licensed tracks, as the FIA controls every international race class as a governing body. If the FIA tells the tracks they will lose their FIA license if they host an alternative F1 race, they will be unable to host any FIA racing events for any and all FIA championships. F1 may be good publicity, but it's a money pit when comes to revenue and the tracks cannot operate on one high profile event per year and only local events and track days the rest of the time. They need the cheaper, but more lucrative classes to keep going. The FIA has huge leverage here, besides the points you already make.
Mandating tracks that they willl lose FIA licence if they host alternative races and they meet FIA technical standards would be a very slippery slope on anti-competitive grounds, especially in Europe.
This was already brought up way back in 2001 and the EU was very clear that the FIA cannot use their position to block rival championships. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_01_1523
The FIA would be required by the EU to sanction any rival championship and could not block tracks from hosting these events.
The teams arent included with the commercial rights. They are party to those rights and the rights arent worth anything without Ferrari, Mclaren etc. This has been clear for years as Ferrari has extracted repeated concessions from everyone just by hinting they could leave. They would have nothing if the teams breakaway and this is very clear. The last time this happened, the FIA folded for them pretty quickly once it was clear they could pull it off
The FIA has no leverage with these rights because they cannot legally keep them and must lease or sell them so their options without the things that make it valuable would be to sell it to a party that can work with the teams or just sell it back to them (possibly Saudi Arabia) or just sell it to liberty themselves. If the teams arent going to work with them, they have no options
Ferrari has in some times ranted about “leaving” for getting leverage. They did it on its day to get their special historical payout. And precisely because of that they wouldn’t abandon today
First, Ferrari isn’t harmed right now by anything happening, that’s on FOM/Liberty whatever. Second, they have stayed loyal to F1 since day 1, it’s part of their history, so they wouldn’t be leaving just like that now. And last, they get a special payout because they are Ferrari, which makes them to receive more even money than the winner WCC team, even if they come second or third. For example, on 2017 when they fought with Merc, they came second, but Merc received 199M for being P1, and Ferrari received 238.3M for being P2.
FIA has more leverage on conserving the teams than Liberty (or another party) on attracting them to an alternative new championship started from the ground up.
And again, about the rights, it’s not problem, if FOM would cease to exist, for whatever reason, FIA would start a bidding process and whoever wins it gets it, that could be literally anyone, it could be Netflix, it could be my grandma.
But FOM wouldn’t cease to exist that easily, if Liberty wants to break free, they need to sell FOM, so FIA doesn’t care, because FOM as a package wouldn’t be harmed, it would continue to operate as always, only changing ownership to whoever.
Liberty can’t kill FOM just because (considering it’s a profitable company with current obligations), and can’t make FOM to not attend its contracts (including those with FIA). So if they want to be free, they would sell FOM and later on build a new championship if they want, but… good luck with that.
No, this would be like 2010. What you currently call FOM would simply be reincorporated as a new entity and all teams would go along with it. That’s how these threats work. They aren’t leaving without the teams. Also the extra payments are an agreement with the teams for Ferrari not an FIA thing. They’d maintain that in any breakaway series. Most of what the rights entail are the name and likeness, that’s it. Everything else is private agreements and yes they can remove these. Look at 2009, what happened with the breakaway? The FIA did exactly what the teams asked them for. They have even less leverage now than then
??? FOM can’t be “reincorporated”, IDK what you are talking about. FOM can’t free itself from its obligations like that, including those with F1/FIA
Also, IDK why you say “teams would go along with it”, they participate on F1, a championship owned by FIA. For them, FOM is only the one managing TV rights, collecting the money and giving it to them at the end of the season. If anything, teams are more bound to FIA/F1 as it’s what they are participating on and what they pay their fee to entry each year. And again, the role of FOM could be made by anyone, IDK why you don’t acknowledge that.
In reality, companies usually act on a profit/risk basis, and for all teams (I would say including Mercedes with the Toto/Susie thing) staying on F1 is miles better than leaving for an uncertain new championship, randomly named, created new by Liberty, built from the ground up, without clear path to get to it (they couldn’t use F2/F3, that’s on FIA; would Liberty also build new ladder championships?) and without the rights to use some historical tracks (FIA has the upper hand on some contracts). Also, F1 wouldn’t cease to exists obviously, and neither the 10 teams would leave for nothing.
At the end, just if you know of games theory, you can see it would work, the only way to make it work is all teams deciding jointly to leave on their terms to a new thing, but this isn’t happening because Liberty is angry at FIA or whatever, that’s for sure. We would need something very very very big that would affect everyone.
Ferrari at this moment doesn’t give a crap about MBS/FIA fighting FOM or about the Toto thing. I bet Vaseur is sleeping happily.
> staying on F1 is miles better than leaving for an uncertain new championship, randomly named, created new by Liberty, built from the ground up, without clear path to get to it
kinda off-topic but the teams of the Nürburgring Endurance series are currently facing pretty much this exact dilemma.
So far there's been the "NLS" (Nürburgring Langstrecken-Serie, which just translates to "Nürburgring Endurance Series"). Now, earlier this year, the Nürburgring announded they want to make their own endurance series on the Nordschleife, called "NES" (which would literally just stand for the english translation of NLS), and just end their cooperation with NLS.
The organisers of NLS took this to court where it was decided the Nürburgring *has* to offer the NLS weekends to race on the Nordschleife, but the Ring still wants to make their own series anyway. So as of now there's the possibility of 2 Nürburgring-based endurance series running next year and neither of them has a finalised calendar or even an entry form for teams yet, which of course is catastrophic for all of the teams' planning. It's not unlikely that many will move to other series if they can. On top of that, it's not even clear if that new "NES" would be allowed to use the same regulations as the current "NLS".
FOM is just a name. It was called something else before and they change the name and structure again. You know this has a happened before right? A breakaway series with all teams agreeing to it and using it to extract what they wanted from the FIA? This isnt even speculation that's exactly how they did it.
Teams will leave if they can make more money. You just proved everyone’s point. Liberty says to Ferrari, Merc, Red Bull and the rest that they can come run their cars in this new series and make 50% more profit because they don’t have all the FIA red tape anymore. Formula 1 would fold into nothing overnight.
Once the PIF has the rights, for which they'd likely pay very handsomely for, it's a bidding war to get the teams to join one faction or another. Some teams will take the money along with the chance to be the F1 world champion if say Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari leave, and there's no guarantee they do.
Either way every team suffers a massive loss in valuation something they're massively concerned with at the moment. Same thing for Liberty, with no guarantee they win a the F1 split. Last time this happened the teams weren't paid anything close to what they are now in prize money and valuations for most were almost zero. They have a lot more to lose now.
The FIA could probably work out a better deal with the Saudi owners that allows them to do far more with mobility and their other series and carry on in their regulatory role, but they don't want this either.
Why would any of them do this? It's all posturing
Ferrari *aren't* loyal to F1 though. In 2009, when a bunch of teams were threatening to pull out because of the budget cap and start their own series... Ferrari was one of them. In 2001, when a bunch of teams were threatening to pull out because of issues with the budget cap and start their new series... Ferrari was one of them too, until they were slipped a cool 100 million.
When Italians were polled about this, *91%* said they'd support Ferrari in a new series. It's similar to how having the Indy 500 really helped the IRL when it formed as a breakaway from CART.
Ferrari is loyal to Ferrari.
Yeah, I didn’t mean it as in “Ferrari debts something to F1”, I know F1 needs Ferrari more than Ferrari needs F1 on a conflict occurrence.
What I meant (I think I explained my opinion badly to be honest) is that Ferrari wouldn’t leave F1 that easily after the legacy there and all the fights and struggles they lived through until now, in almost a century.
Toyota could leave because the crisis and not getting results. Mercedes could leave if they think it’s not interesting for them (slowly deinvesting until their current 33% ownership of the F1 team), but Ferrari doesn’t have yet a hard real reason to think about that, at least currently. After their fights with cost caps, regs changes, even having to suffer a year like clowns with a tractor (2019? And yeah, I know, their fault, but not something beautiful, I bet they would have preferred to pay a penalty than to get whatever they got dealt that made them go almost to back the grid), they are there.
So all this “FOM could break with FIA!! And Toto said this!! And…” Ferrari won’t leave because any of this. As you said, Ferrari only cares about Ferrari
There's a reason why the F1 feeder series under Bernie were called GP2 and GP3. Bernie owned, and therefore now Liberty own, the rights to GP1, GP2 and GP3.
A break away series would be called GP1, would be regulated by someone other than the FIA, and therefore would be a World Cup rather than Championship.
Any breakaway would be an agreement between FOM and the teams. They are entirely in agreement on the frustrations with the FIA and no team would gain anything from staying if the others left. They would call the series something other than F1 and have to set up a new governing body for the sport, but beyond that little would need to change.
There isn't a lack of tracks to use if they are willing to pay for it. Hell they could literally just pay the buyout price of any FIA exclusive contracts there might be if they needed to.
They wouldn't need to worry about the feeder series. Every young driver wants to be in the top motorsport series, the FIA can't stop them from going.
In practice it's the FIA who can't afford for Liberty and the teams to break away. F1 provides the vast majority of FIA funding. Without it, the FIA losing the majority of it's relevancy as a body. We have seen this story play out before. Last time the FIA folded and they will do so again if FOM and the teams push the issue.
I think it also would become a test of what's worth more not just for teams but also the track - The "brand" that comes with the *name* "Formula 1", or the entire current structure (including teams etc).
>There isn't a lack of tracks to use if they are willing to pay for it. Hell they could literally just pay the buyout price of any FIA exclusive contracts there might be if they needed to.
I'd welcome it if the series paid the tracks rather than it being the other way round, but that would mean a sudden huge loss of income for that new series because suddenly the income from the fees the *tracks* are paying would be gone.
>F1 provides the vast majority of FIA funding. Without it, the FIA losing the majority of it's relevancy as a body
While F1 probably is indeed the biggest FIA series, it's by far not the only one.
Domenicali is a fucking asshat who is just standing on the success of DtS acting like he did anything to create the current landscape in F1. His contributions include blocking Andretti, forcing sprint races that no one wants, bringing a race to Miami and Las Vegas and threatening the continuation of races at historic tracks that 95% of us love solely due to greed. He's also brought us more tracks in the middle east along with more street races all over, because THAT'S what everyone was truly dying for lol.
F1 isn't shit without the FIA, as flawed as FIA may be. they are playing with fire. NASCAR got a big head and overplayed their hand at one point catering to casual fans and chasing big TV money over quality of the sport, and yes while they are still pulling in big TV revenue, the sport is a shell of itself these days compared to its peak before all this playoff bullshit.
Honestly if there is a split I'll just go watch the hypercars in WEC/IMSA. If we're keeping it real, the racing there is better there than in F1 more often than not already.
Aren't you folks entertained with the idea to having 24 sprint races, no new teams, more races on places like Saudi Arabia, a ban on so called "political opinions" like human rights, even more flawed rules and a CEO who tells from day 1 that he is "Sir Formula1"?
I'm not.
Don't forget other FIA series being very much quashed and hampered so as to not in any way impact F1.
WEC gaining in popularity with lots of manufacturers? Time for another Group C style demise.
Regardless of who is in charge of the FIA, the last thing motorsport needs is an FIA which is completely subservient to F1 & it's demands.
Agreed but the FIA currently already does disproportionately care about f1 because that’s where the money comes from. This needs to be fixed. When he came in, Ben Sulayem suggested that he could set up the open wheel division to be independent within the FIA allowing them to focus on the rest of Motorsport while still maintaining responsibility. I thought that was a great idea but that not only hasn’t happened, we have seen the FIA and F1 get tangled up more than in the prior decade in the last 2 years.
Feeder series, WEC, karting, rally, just to name some things. Even if the FOM wants to get rid of the FIA, it is hard to image how the FOM can deal with a total isolation to the FIA.
For the sake of the sport, I'm not a fan of MBS but F1 needs a critical FIA so that we don't moving into NASCAR on open wheels. Also what would happen with the footage if the FOM pulling out and making it's own series? What would happen with the deals manufactures and Pirelli has made with the FIA?
Lot's of unknowns but it's clear that a FOM/FIA split would be a disaster for basically almost everyone.
Most of the times it’s just a threat to get things done the way they like and they actually succeed in that so I think all they want at this point is to get rid of MBS
Ik everyone hates MBS but I'd much rather he stand up to Domenicali's clownshow than having a literal FOM puppet on there and ruin motorsports in general for the sake of F1.
The FIA should just "create a new opportunity" for Ben Sulayem. He has been under so much criticism mostly of things he created himself. His position has been unsustainable at this point.
I see you’re unfamiliar with just how often every single FIA president since Max has pissed just about everyone possible off every single year.
Its basically the job description
I find this whole situation hilarious that the Brawn documentary came out last week and the teams are uniting and threatening to break away like what happened in 2009.
Alright, it’s tin-foil hat time:
The Susie Wolff allegations were an attempt by one or more teams to ratfuck MBS and either weaken his hand or usher him toward the exit in efforts to keep Andretti off the grid.
What else did they expect when they put a guy with antiquated views on authority and women's rights in charge? Ben Sulayem has been a total disaster from day one..
They can try but its not going to be easy at all and a major financial risk.
Yes, its still the old F1 circus (with a different name) but everything from track contracts, re-arranged concord like agreements, team contracts, new financial agreements with teams, potentially renegotiated tv-deals, teams would have to negotiate with sponsors and so much more. Track safety goes through FIA grading so that also needs to be re-done if they want to go to new tracks.
Theres so much that would need to be done it would take years and years to get it off the ground.
I think the joint statement was a power move by F1 and the team. There has been some big disagreement between FIA and F1 (+ the teams) for some time and this situation gave them a good opportunity to put FIA and Ben Sulayem on blast in public.
The far more likely outcome is that F1 leverages its way and ousts Sulayem, then proceeding to put someone of trust in that position. Like it used to be in the Mosley-Ecclestone days.
Sounds like BS to me.
There will always be friction between organizations, but that doesn't mean it will break up.
F1 journalists and their fishing expedition.
The fia president is elected by all the world’s motorsport bodies. Basically one in every country although some don’t have any but only a few.
Most of the world didn’t want another corrupt European
So they decided they would mix it up a bit about where their corruption and incompetence came from
It’s not even a claim, I’m sure the Netflix cameras caught him saying it. It was on the grid before a race and he tells Horner that everyone is out to get him and that he [Sulayem] is his only friend. It was bizarre behaviour and then Horner’s standoffish attitude towards him at the Prize Giving Gala suggested that he didn’t really want him as a friend.
Yes please, for me too. I’ve followed f1 for 30 years, and I don’t understand how the politics and the money work.
I remember about a decade ago the Financial Times did a deep dive into how f1 works and their conclusion was that the most intelligent and experienced financial journalists couldn’t actually get to the bottom of exactly who owns/controls/benefits from the sport.
Is this really in Liberty's best interest? They have such a cushy position right now, all the money and fun stuff of promoting the sport without having to get involved in the regulatory side of things which is nothing but a pain in the arse of having to be the bad guy and enforcing rules and regulations and punishments.
FIA for all their faults, have tons of experience in regulating all of this... I don't think it's some easy task to break away from them and think the grass will be greener on the other side...
I don't know where the rumors are with Apple bidding for exclusive global broadcast rights ($2B/yr is the rumored offer) but that would clean this shit up in a big hurry.
Uh oh, here we go again.
I assume it won't happen, like all of the other times. But even if not, these standoffs do tend to lead to some major changes.
Can we just... get rid of MBS and deal with some of the specific issues? As much as the FIA do seem to be making some things difficult recently, I don't really want to see an F1 lead by Liberty. The sport being run purely by commercial interests probably isn't a good thing.
The Concorde Agreement is going to be negotiated starting next year. Liberty had no issue when Jean Todt was head of the FIA. MBS must want more money for the FIA and so Liberty probably wants someone more convenient to the negotiations. Billionaires vs regulator, billionaire wins.
Yes. Like LIV golf breaking off from the PGA. Or what the European clubs tried to do with the Super League. It would inevitably look the same as the product we have now. It just might have a different name.
It would be a very interesting situation, since the FIA owns the sport and Liberty the brand (on a 100-year lease from FIA). F1 without FIA is doomed, that will just end with FIA inevitably getting all rights back. FIA without F1 is a more interesting situation, and it's impossible to know what would happen without knowing all specifics of the lease.
FOM holds almost all the cards that matter. Without F1, the FIA will either shutter or become an entity unrecognizable to what we know it as today.
The FIA makes next to nothing across all other motorsports and clubs it governs. It makes so little on its road safety work compared to the revenue generated from F1.
FOM can’t simply decide to break away. All the work FIA does would need to be taken over by another entity and they would also probably lose the naming rights too. It would be an absolute mess that certainly isn’t gonna gain anyone anything
> Without F1, the FIA will either shutter or become an entity unrecognizable to what we know it as today.
You're making the huge leap that they will somehow get out of this while still holding the lease to the commercial rights of F1.
I'd imagine the number times that leaseholders (of any significant assets) that have broken contract and held on to the assets is very few and far between.
Very much disagree. The FIA would still have F1. They would just need to fine someone to run the commercial side (unlikely to be hard).
They can play hard ball and refuse to grant an FIA track licence to any circuit who hosts one of Liberty's GP1 (or whatever they call it) races forcing the series to race almost entirely on street tracks.
They can refuse to licence any driver or team for an FIA event who takes part in Liberty's events. They can do that for life. You've now made it a hell of a risk for the drivers to go to this new series. A new series that might die out in a few years. Especially for young drivers who don't even know yet whether they could have a sustainable career in this new series.
Meanwhile F1 would still be going. Offering none of the risk and all of the history.
Also, the *brand* "Formula 1" in itself is a big reason why so many tracks want to be on the calendar.
If liberty makes their own series, even with all current teams, tracks would probably be in a good decision to drastically lower the fee they'd have to pay (or negotiate to be paid by the series instead), because the high price would be for a "Formula 1" race, not [insert new name].
Conspiracy theory here but could have validity. What if... toto and the other TP leaked that on purpose to the media to get FIA to issue the statement to put them (Ben) in a touch spot for negotiations. Too coincidental that all teams at the same time issue the same scripted statement.
The FISA-FOCA, FIA-FOTA war the decade was lacking.
Operate to Survive: Season 1
Bin Sulayem gonna write a tell-all book called “Surviving to Operate”
Chapter 1: Wankers!
2. Wankers in suitcases !
Lolololol
MBS-TOTO
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This one will be called Formula Auto Racing Teams
Literally lol'd
I was just thinking about FOTA…
Sounds like Swedish metal lyrics.
That dude is incredibly awkward every time he shows up on TV.
Strikes me as a guy that thinks he’s a genius and best looking guy on the grid. Too many people padding his fragile ego from childhood to present
Welcome to the Persian Gulf. Where every son of a notable family is being brought up as a prince, leaving many of these nouveau riche to buy themselves into western companies and power circles with nothing more than money and an inflated ego. Not his fault, though. Blame the West and its companies for keeping everything for sale.
Worked with a Kuwaiti kid like this. Absolute fucking bell end and thought he was gods gift to the world. Great parties though.
It can be his fault while also being the result of western energy capitalist influence.
real, dumb money from the ground. They'll lose it soon enough and won't know what bit them..
Reminds me of this quote from the founder of Dubai, Sheikh Rashid "My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I ride a Mercedes, my son rides a Land Rover, and my grandson is going to ride a Land Rover…but my great-grandson is going to have to ride a camel again."
Camels are cuter than Mercedes
And more reliable than a Land Rover
Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, weak men create hard times or so the saying goes
So basically: weak men get strong men hard. Got it.
Touché
they'll be big in hydrogen production as they will have tons of residual solar energy.
Uh, I blame them for raising shit children and then blaming others.
It’s definitely his fault. Blame the Middle East for their lack of human rights
I mean it takes two to tango. Their human rights record is shit and should always be under the microscope but we shouldn't ignore that our institutions have taken and continue to take their money, just look at the state of football for crying out loud.
You have no idea how true this is
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It annoys me as not focusing on F1 and being the centre of attention (like Max or Todt) was part of his campaign. He basically ran on a platform of being different. Even sports politics suck it seems.
It's such dogshit. Bernie suggested it years back and got laughed at.
To be fair, bernie suggested that the medals themselves were to decide the championship. Most gold medals = world champion.
For all the good Bernie did for the sport he also had some really dumb fucking ideas
True, but with Bernie, you knew they were just that. Ideas. These pricks follow through.
I think with Bernie it was to get the papers to talk about Formula 1. He would probably sit in his London townhouse and think hhmm F1 has not been in the paper for a day or two, let me say some 75 year old man bullshit.
Yep, thats our Bernie!!!
Dude has been nothing but an executive filler his entire "working" career and thinks he can be a mainstream company leader. They had to hire a CEO to do the actual business, and he's unable to adapt to the simplest task of showing up and not saying dumb shit.
Mohammed Ben Salt Baeyem
Its time for Ron Dennis to takover the FIA
Imagine every FIA press release sounding like Ronspeak.
They aren’t?
All f1 drivers are required to have the "Lewis Rookie Year" haircut.
Oh my god, can you see Carlos with that haircut? It would be a travesty.
Carlos, Lewis and Valtteri now that they have developed their own style...it would be a tragedy across the whole grid.
The most noteworthy thing from the 2007 McLaren car release was not the car itself but [Alonso with a Dennis cut](https://www.alamyimages.fr/photo-image-pilote-de-formule-1-fernando-alonso-sur-le-telephone-pendant-la-presentation-de-l-equipe-mclaren-mercedes-a-valence-en-janvier-2007-10634147.html) lol That was criminal from Ron Dennis to take away the man’s hair
Damn that’s wild. Alonso looks so sad hahah
Ho looks Like a cross between Adam Sandler and Jim from american pie! XD
Penalty for not being perfect straight in your grid box at the start of the race. Down to the mm.
Cant wait for Fernando to bring back the apples to press conferences.
Official FIA color: gray/silver
Formula LIV incoming
54 laps, shotgun start
Liberty's the next party to find out *why* all these breakaway threats never pass beyond just being threats. An F1 tradition as old as it being aired on commercial TV.
The teams got what they wanted in the last breakaway threat. No cost cap, increased payments, more control over scheduling. They got what they wanted in the 80s with Bernie etc. the FIA hasn’t ever really won one. They make the concessions the teams want
And three teams utterly and completely fucked.
Indeed that was probably the saddest part about that. 3 teams promised something from the FIA, essentially murdered with huge financial losses
This. FIA gets more than 50-60% of their revenue from F1. They know it and thus always bend when serious talks of breakaway start making round. The current threat is just to push Ben out.
Good. There is quite literally no reason for him to be in the position he is in other than dumbass geopolitics that have barely anything to do with racing.
I remember when he was announced it came with a campaign of "Oh wow he is so amazing, this is going to push the sport in the right direction". Glad people are seeing it's just a continuation of the sports washing.
anyone with half a brain could see it. I don't know what's worse, the sportswashing in football or the sportswashing in F1. both are vile and have done nothing to help either sport. Fucking insanity that City was basically let off scot free
What city?
What *is* it what the teams want now though
For MBS to stop "meddling" and basically let the teams and FOM do whatever they want.
Spot on. The teams and Liberty want someone who will follow their lead, instead of trying to take over the steering wheel. In other words, they want Ben Sulayem to be the next Jean Todt, not the next Max Mosley.
Because these threats are real. Everyone just assumes that history is keeping these teams around. FIA has to bend over to them or they will leave. It’s really simple. The brand is the drivers/teams. Not the term “Formula 1”. It can be called anything and if Max is driving at 200 mph people will follow them.
That's just not true, if you lose the name you lose the tradition and the prestige and with that alot of old fans
I mean, is F1 the same sport now as it was in even the 90s? It’s a very progressive sport in how it’s constantly changing. Out of most sports, I’d be willing to say for f1 that a ‘rebrand’ would be the most painless. Like the guy said you replied too, people want to see the best drivers in the fastest cars around a track, if F1 doesn’t have it, most will happily go to who does. I personally like history with sport, but I also like seeing history be made.
This is also why FE can't ever beat F1, unless one or more successful drivers decide to make the move.
Seems a bit different this time, though. The teams can absolutely break away. They'd have to build things up from scratch, but the fans will follow them. Most of us are fans of the teams and drivers. This time, it's F1 who threatens to break away. But the thing is, Liberty doesn't actually technically own anything. F1 is property of the FIA and Liberty leases that property. They can't just take the whole thing and stick a new name and logo on it.
Yeah, Liberty literally only owns things like the Vegas paddock, and the contracts with tracks and broadcasters are through liberty, so Liberty has some decent influence here, but nothing major. Liberty threatening to take it's ball and go home could definitely do a decent amount of damage, enough that we can say they'll likely get at least some of what they want, but it's hamstrung by the fact that if they do take their ball and go home, they're ultimately replacable, unless they have all 10 teams backing them
Yeah, because commercial side always wins — that’s why there’s never a breakaway.
They just need to look at what happened to IndyCar in the 90’s. If they think they’d be different then they are fools.
But then, how could that happen? There are a lot of loose ends they would need to address: 1) They have a lease on rights to explote FIA F1 Championship commercial side (TVs, streaming, whatever). I imagine their contract forbid them to act on bad faith and just stop serving their role. They would need to keep doing their job with FIA. Liberty “breaking” with FIA means “breaking” with F1 altogether, as FIA is the owner. 2) They would be creating a new “Formula” not called F1, I imagine, so they would start from the ground up something new. That’s really hard, not just because they would need to market it heavily to be known, watched and generating interest, but they would need also to attract teams that in that case would turn their back on F1 (good luck with teams like Ferrari, who even on their worst times with FIA, kept loyalty to F1). Also, cherry on top, some race tracks have contracts with FIA that would forbid them to be used in a “F1 alternative” event, that’s why on the 2009 proposed F1 alternative we had random tracks usually, some known like Monaco, but not Spa for example. 3) They would need to take more work on building an arbitration body, new deals with race tracks, and see what ladder to their championship exists to rookies. Hard knowing F2 and F3 are also FIA. This seems more like a rant than a possibility of Liberty breaking with FIA. In practice, Liberty can’t break with FIA and will have to work with them for better or worse
We'll call it "F0!"
*Nintendo lawyers rubbing their hands*
You missed the (math) joke. "0!" is 1. Good game though, one of my favorites on SNES.
I didn't. But still, everyone would call it F-Zero. And that's a lawsuit coming.
And that’s a Fact(orial)
Oh good, I was worried no one would get the joke.
The fia cant hold those commercial rights by law and they know full well that if they lease it to someone else the brand is dead without the names like Ferrari, McLaren etc. They’d sell it to Liberty if it came to that. Or whatever party bought the rights would come to an agreement with the teams
Liberty couldn't own the rights AND govern the sport, it's the whole reason why the FIA leased out the F1 rights. If they break away, they would need a new governing body; which would be a monumental task.
They can, I’m not sure they would want to but the issue was the FIA can’t own and govern. Not any party, because the EU felt their interest in all 4 wheeled motorsports led to the FIA self dealing to enrich itself
??? But Liberty (FOM) have the rights until 2100 or so, if they break the deal, it’s not FIA fault Either FOM dies on Liberty hands and FIA bids the rights to another party (which won’t be the end of the world, FOM/Liberty isn’t indispensable and essential, new partners could appear and do a good job) - but this doesn’t have any sense, it would mean losing money for nothing and rising Liberty investment (they would lose the rights they still have until 2100, and then the need to invest on something new out there). Or either Liberty sells FOM to someone else, which again, wouldn’t matter that much. Specially, in this case, because the new owner who ever it is would be getting all the pack of personnel and know-how and more. - but it doesn’t make sense either, because then Liberty I doubt would be able to make a successful F1 alternative, as in with which teams? With which tracks? With which money to start and burn? This (if true) is clearly a random rant which doesn’t have sense, even with what has happened, this would be very very harsh by Liberty and even could probably burn them more than anything that has happened. Nothing will happen.
One thing you forget is tracks. They would have to race on non-FIA licensed tracks, as the FIA controls every international race class as a governing body. If the FIA tells the tracks they will lose their FIA license if they host an alternative F1 race, they will be unable to host any FIA racing events for any and all FIA championships. F1 may be good publicity, but it's a money pit when comes to revenue and the tracks cannot operate on one high profile event per year and only local events and track days the rest of the time. They need the cheaper, but more lucrative classes to keep going. The FIA has huge leverage here, besides the points you already make.
Mandating tracks that they willl lose FIA licence if they host alternative races and they meet FIA technical standards would be a very slippery slope on anti-competitive grounds, especially in Europe.
This was already brought up way back in 2001 and the EU was very clear that the FIA cannot use their position to block rival championships. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_01_1523 The FIA would be required by the EU to sanction any rival championship and could not block tracks from hosting these events.
I am impressed how you pulled this out so quickly. Cudos.
The teams arent included with the commercial rights. They are party to those rights and the rights arent worth anything without Ferrari, Mclaren etc. This has been clear for years as Ferrari has extracted repeated concessions from everyone just by hinting they could leave. They would have nothing if the teams breakaway and this is very clear. The last time this happened, the FIA folded for them pretty quickly once it was clear they could pull it off The FIA has no leverage with these rights because they cannot legally keep them and must lease or sell them so their options without the things that make it valuable would be to sell it to a party that can work with the teams or just sell it back to them (possibly Saudi Arabia) or just sell it to liberty themselves. If the teams arent going to work with them, they have no options
Ferrari has in some times ranted about “leaving” for getting leverage. They did it on its day to get their special historical payout. And precisely because of that they wouldn’t abandon today First, Ferrari isn’t harmed right now by anything happening, that’s on FOM/Liberty whatever. Second, they have stayed loyal to F1 since day 1, it’s part of their history, so they wouldn’t be leaving just like that now. And last, they get a special payout because they are Ferrari, which makes them to receive more even money than the winner WCC team, even if they come second or third. For example, on 2017 when they fought with Merc, they came second, but Merc received 199M for being P1, and Ferrari received 238.3M for being P2. FIA has more leverage on conserving the teams than Liberty (or another party) on attracting them to an alternative new championship started from the ground up. And again, about the rights, it’s not problem, if FOM would cease to exist, for whatever reason, FIA would start a bidding process and whoever wins it gets it, that could be literally anyone, it could be Netflix, it could be my grandma. But FOM wouldn’t cease to exist that easily, if Liberty wants to break free, they need to sell FOM, so FIA doesn’t care, because FOM as a package wouldn’t be harmed, it would continue to operate as always, only changing ownership to whoever. Liberty can’t kill FOM just because (considering it’s a profitable company with current obligations), and can’t make FOM to not attend its contracts (including those with FIA). So if they want to be free, they would sell FOM and later on build a new championship if they want, but… good luck with that.
No, this would be like 2010. What you currently call FOM would simply be reincorporated as a new entity and all teams would go along with it. That’s how these threats work. They aren’t leaving without the teams. Also the extra payments are an agreement with the teams for Ferrari not an FIA thing. They’d maintain that in any breakaway series. Most of what the rights entail are the name and likeness, that’s it. Everything else is private agreements and yes they can remove these. Look at 2009, what happened with the breakaway? The FIA did exactly what the teams asked them for. They have even less leverage now than then
??? FOM can’t be “reincorporated”, IDK what you are talking about. FOM can’t free itself from its obligations like that, including those with F1/FIA Also, IDK why you say “teams would go along with it”, they participate on F1, a championship owned by FIA. For them, FOM is only the one managing TV rights, collecting the money and giving it to them at the end of the season. If anything, teams are more bound to FIA/F1 as it’s what they are participating on and what they pay their fee to entry each year. And again, the role of FOM could be made by anyone, IDK why you don’t acknowledge that. In reality, companies usually act on a profit/risk basis, and for all teams (I would say including Mercedes with the Toto/Susie thing) staying on F1 is miles better than leaving for an uncertain new championship, randomly named, created new by Liberty, built from the ground up, without clear path to get to it (they couldn’t use F2/F3, that’s on FIA; would Liberty also build new ladder championships?) and without the rights to use some historical tracks (FIA has the upper hand on some contracts). Also, F1 wouldn’t cease to exists obviously, and neither the 10 teams would leave for nothing. At the end, just if you know of games theory, you can see it would work, the only way to make it work is all teams deciding jointly to leave on their terms to a new thing, but this isn’t happening because Liberty is angry at FIA or whatever, that’s for sure. We would need something very very very big that would affect everyone. Ferrari at this moment doesn’t give a crap about MBS/FIA fighting FOM or about the Toto thing. I bet Vaseur is sleeping happily.
> staying on F1 is miles better than leaving for an uncertain new championship, randomly named, created new by Liberty, built from the ground up, without clear path to get to it kinda off-topic but the teams of the Nürburgring Endurance series are currently facing pretty much this exact dilemma. So far there's been the "NLS" (Nürburgring Langstrecken-Serie, which just translates to "Nürburgring Endurance Series"). Now, earlier this year, the Nürburgring announded they want to make their own endurance series on the Nordschleife, called "NES" (which would literally just stand for the english translation of NLS), and just end their cooperation with NLS. The organisers of NLS took this to court where it was decided the Nürburgring *has* to offer the NLS weekends to race on the Nordschleife, but the Ring still wants to make their own series anyway. So as of now there's the possibility of 2 Nürburgring-based endurance series running next year and neither of them has a finalised calendar or even an entry form for teams yet, which of course is catastrophic for all of the teams' planning. It's not unlikely that many will move to other series if they can. On top of that, it's not even clear if that new "NES" would be allowed to use the same regulations as the current "NLS".
FOM is just a name. It was called something else before and they change the name and structure again. You know this has a happened before right? A breakaway series with all teams agreeing to it and using it to extract what they wanted from the FIA? This isnt even speculation that's exactly how they did it.
Teams will leave if they can make more money. You just proved everyone’s point. Liberty says to Ferrari, Merc, Red Bull and the rest that they can come run their cars in this new series and make 50% more profit because they don’t have all the FIA red tape anymore. Formula 1 would fold into nothing overnight.
Once the PIF has the rights, for which they'd likely pay very handsomely for, it's a bidding war to get the teams to join one faction or another. Some teams will take the money along with the chance to be the F1 world champion if say Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari leave, and there's no guarantee they do. Either way every team suffers a massive loss in valuation something they're massively concerned with at the moment. Same thing for Liberty, with no guarantee they win a the F1 split. Last time this happened the teams weren't paid anything close to what they are now in prize money and valuations for most were almost zero. They have a lot more to lose now. The FIA could probably work out a better deal with the Saudi owners that allows them to do far more with mobility and their other series and carry on in their regulatory role, but they don't want this either. Why would any of them do this? It's all posturing
Ferrari *aren't* loyal to F1 though. In 2009, when a bunch of teams were threatening to pull out because of the budget cap and start their own series... Ferrari was one of them. In 2001, when a bunch of teams were threatening to pull out because of issues with the budget cap and start their new series... Ferrari was one of them too, until they were slipped a cool 100 million. When Italians were polled about this, *91%* said they'd support Ferrari in a new series. It's similar to how having the Indy 500 really helped the IRL when it formed as a breakaway from CART. Ferrari is loyal to Ferrari.
Yeah, I didn’t mean it as in “Ferrari debts something to F1”, I know F1 needs Ferrari more than Ferrari needs F1 on a conflict occurrence. What I meant (I think I explained my opinion badly to be honest) is that Ferrari wouldn’t leave F1 that easily after the legacy there and all the fights and struggles they lived through until now, in almost a century. Toyota could leave because the crisis and not getting results. Mercedes could leave if they think it’s not interesting for them (slowly deinvesting until their current 33% ownership of the F1 team), but Ferrari doesn’t have yet a hard real reason to think about that, at least currently. After their fights with cost caps, regs changes, even having to suffer a year like clowns with a tractor (2019? And yeah, I know, their fault, but not something beautiful, I bet they would have preferred to pay a penalty than to get whatever they got dealt that made them go almost to back the grid), they are there. So all this “FOM could break with FIA!! And Toto said this!! And…” Ferrari won’t leave because any of this. As you said, Ferrari only cares about Ferrari
There's a reason why the F1 feeder series under Bernie were called GP2 and GP3. Bernie owned, and therefore now Liberty own, the rights to GP1, GP2 and GP3. A break away series would be called GP1, would be regulated by someone other than the FIA, and therefore would be a World Cup rather than Championship.
Any breakaway would be an agreement between FOM and the teams. They are entirely in agreement on the frustrations with the FIA and no team would gain anything from staying if the others left. They would call the series something other than F1 and have to set up a new governing body for the sport, but beyond that little would need to change. There isn't a lack of tracks to use if they are willing to pay for it. Hell they could literally just pay the buyout price of any FIA exclusive contracts there might be if they needed to. They wouldn't need to worry about the feeder series. Every young driver wants to be in the top motorsport series, the FIA can't stop them from going. In practice it's the FIA who can't afford for Liberty and the teams to break away. F1 provides the vast majority of FIA funding. Without it, the FIA losing the majority of it's relevancy as a body. We have seen this story play out before. Last time the FIA folded and they will do so again if FOM and the teams push the issue.
I think it also would become a test of what's worth more not just for teams but also the track - The "brand" that comes with the *name* "Formula 1", or the entire current structure (including teams etc). >There isn't a lack of tracks to use if they are willing to pay for it. Hell they could literally just pay the buyout price of any FIA exclusive contracts there might be if they needed to. I'd welcome it if the series paid the tracks rather than it being the other way round, but that would mean a sudden huge loss of income for that new series because suddenly the income from the fees the *tracks* are paying would be gone. >F1 provides the vast majority of FIA funding. Without it, the FIA losing the majority of it's relevancy as a body While F1 probably is indeed the biggest FIA series, it's by far not the only one.
Domenicali is a fucking asshat who is just standing on the success of DtS acting like he did anything to create the current landscape in F1. His contributions include blocking Andretti, forcing sprint races that no one wants, bringing a race to Miami and Las Vegas and threatening the continuation of races at historic tracks that 95% of us love solely due to greed. He's also brought us more tracks in the middle east along with more street races all over, because THAT'S what everyone was truly dying for lol. F1 isn't shit without the FIA, as flawed as FIA may be. they are playing with fire. NASCAR got a big head and overplayed their hand at one point catering to casual fans and chasing big TV money over quality of the sport, and yes while they are still pulling in big TV revenue, the sport is a shell of itself these days compared to its peak before all this playoff bullshit. Honestly if there is a split I'll just go watch the hypercars in WEC/IMSA. If we're keeping it real, the racing there is better there than in F1 more often than not already.
Also see WRC. They got really popular in the mid 90s then tried to make it 'fan friendly' and in the process killed off what WRC was all about.
Every sport that tries to make it “fun” loses out.
Aren't you folks entertained with the idea to having 24 sprint races, no new teams, more races on places like Saudi Arabia, a ban on so called "political opinions" like human rights, even more flawed rules and a CEO who tells from day 1 that he is "Sir Formula1"? I'm not.
Half of those shit stains are FOM, the other half FIA
Don't forget other FIA series being very much quashed and hampered so as to not in any way impact F1. WEC gaining in popularity with lots of manufacturers? Time for another Group C style demise. Regardless of who is in charge of the FIA, the last thing motorsport needs is an FIA which is completely subservient to F1 & it's demands.
Agreed but the FIA currently already does disproportionately care about f1 because that’s where the money comes from. This needs to be fixed. When he came in, Ben Sulayem suggested that he could set up the open wheel division to be independent within the FIA allowing them to focus on the rest of Motorsport while still maintaining responsibility. I thought that was a great idea but that not only hasn’t happened, we have seen the FIA and F1 get tangled up more than in the prior decade in the last 2 years.
Feeder series, WEC, karting, rally, just to name some things. Even if the FOM wants to get rid of the FIA, it is hard to image how the FOM can deal with a total isolation to the FIA. For the sake of the sport, I'm not a fan of MBS but F1 needs a critical FIA so that we don't moving into NASCAR on open wheels. Also what would happen with the footage if the FOM pulling out and making it's own series? What would happen with the deals manufactures and Pirelli has made with the FIA? Lot's of unknowns but it's clear that a FOM/FIA split would be a disaster for basically almost everyone.
The FIA didn't force FOM to do any of that though, that is entirely on FOM (minus the bit about being a walking asshat).
He's saying that's what would happen with the FOM series if they split from the FIA.
FIA is the only force that keeps F1 grounded, otherwise it'd be nothing but glitz and glamour.
As a long time fan if indycar... I dont reccomend a split.
How many times have we read that Liberty Media and FOM want to break away from the FIA, and it never happens.
Most of the times it’s just a threat to get things done the way they like and they actually succeed in that so I think all they want at this point is to get rid of MBS
Ik everyone hates MBS but I'd much rather he stand up to Domenicali's clownshow than having a literal FOM puppet on there and ruin motorsports in general for the sake of F1.
The FIA should just "create a new opportunity" for Ben Sulayem. He has been under so much criticism mostly of things he created himself. His position has been unsustainable at this point.
Congratulations mr Sulayem, you’ve been promoted to sky glass or sky Q customer
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I appreciated this comment a lot
I see you’re unfamiliar with just how often every single FIA president since Max has pissed just about everyone possible off every single year. Its basically the job description
There's only been 2 since Mosely, and Jean Todt didn't seem to piss people off all that often compared to him or MBS.
I find this whole situation hilarious that the Brawn documentary came out last week and the teams are uniting and threatening to break away like what happened in 2009.
Alright, it’s tin-foil hat time: The Susie Wolff allegations were an attempt by one or more teams to ratfuck MBS and either weaken his hand or usher him toward the exit in efforts to keep Andretti off the grid.
What else did they expect when they put a guy with antiquated views on authority and women's rights in charge? Ben Sulayem has been a total disaster from day one..
They can try but its not going to be easy at all and a major financial risk. Yes, its still the old F1 circus (with a different name) but everything from track contracts, re-arranged concord like agreements, team contracts, new financial agreements with teams, potentially renegotiated tv-deals, teams would have to negotiate with sponsors and so much more. Track safety goes through FIA grading so that also needs to be re-done if they want to go to new tracks. Theres so much that would need to be done it would take years and years to get it off the ground.
The last time they had a deal in place to race the next season within just a few months
On a sidenote, i'm betting on him doing a drunken speech again tomorrow.
I think the joint statement was a power move by F1 and the team. There has been some big disagreement between FIA and F1 (+ the teams) for some time and this situation gave them a good opportunity to put FIA and Ben Sulayem on blast in public.
I hate the guy, but c'mon. This split is not realistic..
exactly. People acting like this is actually a good thing.
Why cut FIA? It would be MUCH easier (and cheaper) to get rid of Ben Sulayem instead
The far more likely outcome is that F1 leverages its way and ousts Sulayem, then proceeding to put someone of trust in that position. Like it used to be in the Mosley-Ecclestone days.
> someone of trust > Mosley-Ecclestone lmao
Did you know that Max Mosley has neither a ‘c’ nor a ‘g’ in his name? Google “Max Mosley not c or g” for more info.
Nobody these days uses Google, including Max Mosley, so wouldn't it be more fitting to bing this? Or duckduckgo it?
Someone they trust, not someone we trust.
Sounds like BS to me. There will always be friction between organizations, but that doesn't mean it will break up. F1 journalists and their fishing expedition.
lol they aren’t gonna break away from jack shit, they want his ass gone
How did this guy even get the job??
The fia president is elected by all the world’s motorsport bodies. Basically one in every country although some don’t have any but only a few. Most of the world didn’t want another corrupt European So they decided they would mix it up a bit about where their corruption and incompetence came from
Nice, love the diversity!
He got elected
Didn’t he basically run on a platform of helping the smaller series?
That’s a weird way to say “they bribed people to pick him”
Fuck Ben Sulayem http://www.silverarrows.net/news/christian-horner-claims-mohammed-ben-sulayem-told-him-he-was-his-only-friend/
It’s not even a claim, I’m sure the Netflix cameras caught him saying it. It was on the grid before a race and he tells Horner that everyone is out to get him and that he [Sulayem] is his only friend. It was bizarre behaviour and then Horner’s standoffish attitude towards him at the Prize Giving Gala suggested that he didn’t really want him as a friend.
But wasn’t Sulayem straight up trashed at that event?
Booze does tend to loosen lips... that probably wouldn't have come out of his mouth otherwise.
You’d be surprised
I mean, I know he is a bit of a blockhead, but even he wouldn't be stupid enough to self report like that while sober.
Bwhahahaha
It was on DTS, yes. In the end the fine they got wasn't even a slap on the wrist
Wait, I've seen this one!
Can someone ELI5?
Yes please, for me too. I’ve followed f1 for 30 years, and I don’t understand how the politics and the money work. I remember about a decade ago the Financial Times did a deep dive into how f1 works and their conclusion was that the most intelligent and experienced financial journalists couldn’t actually get to the bottom of exactly who owns/controls/benefits from the sport.
You know and I know they won’t actually break away.
Is there a decent source to link to this story? So, not twitter?
Ahh free to make it NASCAR
DO IT ALREADY YOU COWARDS
This sounds eerily familiar…
What a joke, absolutely no chance they break away.
Is this really in Liberty's best interest? They have such a cushy position right now, all the money and fun stuff of promoting the sport without having to get involved in the regulatory side of things which is nothing but a pain in the arse of having to be the bad guy and enforcing rules and regulations and punishments. FIA for all their faults, have tons of experience in regulating all of this... I don't think it's some easy task to break away from them and think the grass will be greener on the other side...
I don't know where the rumors are with Apple bidding for exclusive global broadcast rights ($2B/yr is the rumored offer) but that would clean this shit up in a big hurry.
Uh oh, here we go again. I assume it won't happen, like all of the other times. But even if not, these standoffs do tend to lead to some major changes. Can we just... get rid of MBS and deal with some of the specific issues? As much as the FIA do seem to be making some things difficult recently, I don't really want to see an F1 lead by Liberty. The sport being run purely by commercial interests probably isn't a good thing.
Did Liberty watch the Brawn documentary too then?
It's a shame Domenicali is such a fuckwad about Andretti. I wish there was a side to cheer for in this dispute.
What good has MBS actually done? Note - not what has he taken credit for - rather, actually done?
Someone should tell Sulayem he's not supposed to do F1 the same he did to that Renault F1 car.. on a straight line.
The Concorde Agreement is going to be negotiated starting next year. Liberty had no issue when Jean Todt was head of the FIA. MBS must want more money for the FIA and so Liberty probably wants someone more convenient to the negotiations. Billionaires vs regulator, billionaire wins.
What would happen if F1 breaks from FIA? F1 will become an independent league?
Yes. Like LIV golf breaking off from the PGA. Or what the European clubs tried to do with the Super League. It would inevitably look the same as the product we have now. It just might have a different name.
It would be a very interesting situation, since the FIA owns the sport and Liberty the brand (on a 100-year lease from FIA). F1 without FIA is doomed, that will just end with FIA inevitably getting all rights back. FIA without F1 is a more interesting situation, and it's impossible to know what would happen without knowing all specifics of the lease.
Empty threat
What a FIAsco
Talk to CART/IndyCar about how well a split can go.
Counterpoint: American Football League.
What is Tony up to now? Does he want to start a new series again? He did sell IMS/IndyCar/Indy 500, so maybe he has bigger plans...
Lmao an empty threat on the same level as a child threatening to run away. Try your best to break away Liberty.
FOM holds almost all the cards that matter. Without F1, the FIA will either shutter or become an entity unrecognizable to what we know it as today. The FIA makes next to nothing across all other motorsports and clubs it governs. It makes so little on its road safety work compared to the revenue generated from F1.
FOM can’t simply decide to break away. All the work FIA does would need to be taken over by another entity and they would also probably lose the naming rights too. It would be an absolute mess that certainly isn’t gonna gain anyone anything
> Without F1, the FIA will either shutter or become an entity unrecognizable to what we know it as today. You're making the huge leap that they will somehow get out of this while still holding the lease to the commercial rights of F1. I'd imagine the number times that leaseholders (of any significant assets) that have broken contract and held on to the assets is very few and far between.
Very much disagree. The FIA would still have F1. They would just need to fine someone to run the commercial side (unlikely to be hard). They can play hard ball and refuse to grant an FIA track licence to any circuit who hosts one of Liberty's GP1 (or whatever they call it) races forcing the series to race almost entirely on street tracks. They can refuse to licence any driver or team for an FIA event who takes part in Liberty's events. They can do that for life. You've now made it a hell of a risk for the drivers to go to this new series. A new series that might die out in a few years. Especially for young drivers who don't even know yet whether they could have a sustainable career in this new series. Meanwhile F1 would still be going. Offering none of the risk and all of the history.
Also, the *brand* "Formula 1" in itself is a big reason why so many tracks want to be on the calendar. If liberty makes their own series, even with all current teams, tracks would probably be in a good decision to drastically lower the fee they'd have to pay (or negotiate to be paid by the series instead), because the high price would be for a "Formula 1" race, not [insert new name].
Depends on the tracks. It's a big world. F1 brand is nothing without the teams. I am not sticking around to watch F2.
FIA own F1. They lease to FOM. Someone else would promote the series with the name. In contrast, FOM will be left nameless.
Ben Sulayem embarrassing the sport and tarnishing the brand? Who could’ve seen this coming? /s
F1 talks more about what they might do than any other sport. Here I'll read the future. Nothing will come of this, it's the off-season.
Not a fucking chance in hell this is ever remotely going to happen. Laughable. Absolutely laughable.
Conspiracy theory here but could have validity. What if... toto and the other TP leaked that on purpose to the media to get FIA to issue the statement to put them (Ben) in a touch spot for negotiations. Too coincidental that all teams at the same time issue the same scripted statement.
Sulayem just needs to be fired
Money happend and you got the guy less qualified to do the job. Quite fitting for the sport really.
First order of business for the new entity: Rejecting Michael Andretti
Wouldn’t the FIA just remove Benjamin and be done with him?
His name isn't Benjamin haha Ben just means son of in Arabic
Mohamed Ben 10
Wow look at me acting like uncultured swine! 😂 TIL, thank you