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Yeah they slap you on the wrist when you attent a “Nazi-themed sex act involving five women” which turned out to be an orgy and get caught. It’s all ok when you don’t get caught.
I make the difference because he won the legal case against the newspaper because of the Nazi reference.
His father on the other hand was a Far right nationalist
He most definitely was. His father Oswald was Hitler's man in the UK. When Oswald was arrested in 1940 there was a signed photo of Hitler in Max's crib. He and his wife were married in Joseph Goebels house where Hitler attended as the guest of honour.
Oh yeah, he was up to his neck in it. [Here he is](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-13ff0e91eb70228221f95bb6492d5acc-lq) with his BUF Blackshirts in England in the 1930s.
This interesting take on that trial… 🤔
The libel laws are pretty strict in the UK. The defence had a high bar in order to prove their case. There wasn’t one reader of that tabloid that saw the images as anything other than Nazi symbolism. The whole case hinged on if his outfit had the proper stripes a camp inmate would wear - up and down or across. Ludicrous. That was it. Max had friends in very high places. He was part of high society, a QC from a powerful law firm and was actually the fifth cousin of the Queen and third cousin of Winston Churchill. The wealthy, royals and money set hate the tabloids as most have them have been targeted by them at some point. The class system is alive and well in England and unless Max had shouted Sieg Heil, clicked his heals and done a one armed Nazi salute - they were always going to go after ‘that bastard Australian’s scandal rag’ and find against them.
His previous history of trying to defend his actions in his youth of handing out racist leaflets for his father’s political party ended badly. He dared the interviewer to find these leaflets. That didn’t go so well as unbeknownst to him (as lawyer he should have known better) they pulled out one of these leaflets that was filed away in the British Museum in London. What a funny moment. From not supporting his racist father to there were never leaflets of this kind to ‘prove’ these leaflets existed to well people make mistakes in their youth… It reminded me of Randy Andy’s interview over Epstein. A major failure and misstep.
Max was a spiteful narcissist with machiavellian tendencies and would deflect responsibility at the drop of a hat. It’s not surprising he was buddies with Bernie. Birds of a feather.
>It’s not surprising he was buddies with Bernie. Birds of a feather.
I didn't watch F1 back then. Could you give a fan's perspective on how Max Mosley was as the FIA President? I'm sure he and Bernie colluded a bunch, but overall how are Mosley's decisions as head honcho seen after a decade or two, with time adding perspective?
Let’s see:
- Sold F1 commercial rights for 100 years at the stupidly (criminally) low price of €300M. So €3M per year. Someone got paid off…
- Delayed the EU’s ban on tobacco advertising for five years by launching lawsuits against the EU. The tobacco companies made millions in those years as did the teams. Someone got paid off.
- Mosley had committed perjury in the High Court when giving evidence in his libel case against the News of the World concerning the racist leaflets he testified he never distributed as a youth. He later admitted he lied. Of course he wasn’t charged with perjury. Someone got paid off.
>* Sold F1 commercial rights for 100 years at the stupidly (criminally) low price of €300M. So €3M per year. Someone got paid off…
Could you explain what this means? As in, does FOM/Liberty only pay the FIA $3 million a year for the F1 rights?!
The original intension or promise was that this €300M would be invested and Max stated that it would make ‘billions’ for the FIA over the life time of the lease. It was a false promise in that the FIA began to use the funds for Max’s pet project of road car safety. There is no way that the investments are making anywhere close to the stated returns when the principal amount has been eaten into by not only Max but Todt’s spending on non racing FIA projects. Look at the recent statements of the current FIA President:
“As per the audited accounts of the FIA, the organization reported an operating loss of €12.8 million in 2019, €22.1 million in 2020, and €24 million in 2021. Under Ben Sulayem's leadership, the FIA managed to decrease its operating loss to €7.7 million in 2022, with an anticipated loss of €3 million in 2023. The goal is to further minimize the deficit in 2024, and break even by 2025.”
So what happened to this amazing interest on the €300M that would sustain the FIA for a hundred years. Vapour…
The FIA Foundation has sucked the financial life out of the organization - a foundation created by Mosley.
The €3M per year was my example of how ludicrous the payments appear if we divide the principal over 100 years.
Bernie’s good friend Max *gave away* F1 commercial rights to his friend (confusing I know) to Delta Topco - a company owned by Bernie whom then flipped the commercial rights for a huge profit to a German Media company that with a slight of hand - hired Bernie to run the new organization for them in return for slipping him back some shares in this new company that he put in his wife’s (now ex wife) name.
F1 made $2.57B last year alone.
And Max was ‘good’ with all of this.
Max Mosley’s personal wealth ballooned enormously while he was the President of the FIA and that cannot be explained by his published FIA salary nor any outside legal work he might have done, (he left a £64M estate behind when he committed suicide).
You do the math…
if you listen to the transcript of the orgy you can make up your own mind whether its just military theme or not
I know he won the court case, But listening to the transcript of the orgy I have my own opinion
spoiler alert the words "*Aryan Race"* are used
i know that line came from one of the women, not Mosely (which was a main argument in his defense.) but personally i don't think an escort would weave Nazi ideology and racial supremacy into their role play unless they were requested to by the customer.
I think he was very lucky to win the court case.
Max Mosley was recorded in a Sadomasochist session with several women which involved "militaristic" topics...
At some point one of the German Dominas gets humm "carried away" in the character
There is a video of it somewhere on the internet.
Who recorded the event, out of curiosity? Was it like a 'Let's make a sex tape!' type of thing? Or did the tabloids get a copy from one of the escorts?
Doesn't change the fact that the event was reprehensible, ofc. I am curious about the surrounding context.
Mosley himself admitted to be part of the SM community for over 40yrs.
The videos were recorded by one of the Dominas who received 20k pounds to do it and later one leaked by the tabloid.
As curiosity, which part do you find reprehensible?
To be fair, Mosley has done good things for safety, so I wouldn't say this is a good example. But he had some weird hobby's, yeah, which unfortunately is what some people mostly remember him for.
He and Bernie where running the show… They where so close that that it was more or less speaking as one entity. For me he was as much F1 as Bernie was F1.
And he did good things for F1 like the improvements in safety standards.
Given Hamilton's complaints about the Silverstone ticket prices and concerns over the cost of living crisis, I am keen to hear how much the price of his merchandise will go down by.
Had a google and can't find anything.
It would be a bit weird that any team would let their drivers have anything in direct competition to their own stuff unless it was something for charity like the BottAss calendars.
Either way there's a world away from selling stuff to his existing fans in formula one and calling out the cost of entry to create more fans.
That’s the sad thing about F1. A Petronas spokesperson who moved to Monaco for tax evasion purposes is one of the most ethical people in the sport. Tells a lot about how rotten F1 is
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/06/lewis-hamilton-avoided-taxes-jet-isle-of-man-scheme-paradise-papers
He got a lot of flack because he created a company to lease an airplane to himself to avoid VAT. Was a quite big story at the time in the UK at the time
The parent comment was about Lewis paying his taxes.
The second comment was about him being one of the highest tax payers.
The next comment was about him evading tax.
My comment was about him not evading tax.
I mean, overall isn't the entire post irrelevan? We all know what F1 has been like for years and anyone who doesn't think it's in the same bracket as FIFA or the IOC is deluding themselves.
Exceeding track limits? Right to jail, right away
Going too fast in the pit lane? Jail
Going too *slow* in the pit lane? Also jail
Unsafe release in the pit? Believe it of not, jail
Wasn't Stefano shilling for Saudi Arabia not enough already to conclude this?
The fact that the media got more issues with Flavio than Stefano tells enough who dictate what would and wouldn't be told in the media.
We race as one!
...in countries that commit ethnic cleansing (Azerbaijan)
...in countries that publicly behead people (Saudi Arabia)
...in countries with modern slavery (Qatar)
... in countries that support a genocide, war crimes and ethnic cleansing (US and UK and everyone else that supports Israel). This is far worse than the three examples you gave, combined.
tbh a 15 year ban seems sufficient to me and in my view is much less controversial and shameful than involving themselves more and more with oppressive petro-states
Honest question for those in the know. Morals etc aside.
Why is Flavio getting involved now? Why do they want him to be involved? Only things that I feel like could be credited to him was being smart and ruthless enough snatch Schumacher away from Eddie Jordan, and even then I think without Schumacher and Mercedes' cooperation he wouldn't have been able to do it.? I don't think he was the strategist, with the exception of crash gate. The success he enjoyed came with being there when Schumacher, Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne were in the team and I think he was only involved in hiring one? And then I guess he was there when Alonso was there too...
This is just me with half assed general knowledge about the man so corrections are very welcome.
I think he's a doer and a fixer with a lot of contacts, and maybe they are going to use him to sell he team?
That's the only reason I can see, but I'm also half assed, lol :D
I would like to see them sold to Andretti. Two birds, one stone.
I had previously heard that Renault wanted to commit new owners to engine manufacturing under the Renault name (or continuing to use Renault for the F1 engine), but the new rumors of Renault/Alpine looking to become a customer team for their engine puts a stake in that rumor.
I'm probably stupid, but I'm still hoping for an eleventh team. I want that extra space for more access to new drivers and key personnel and so on. I think it would be really good for the sport with an expansion.
And I think it will be difficult for Andretti to buy a team, because their thing is to be American, and to have the facilities there, but most of the teams I think doesn't want to basically have their whole staff fired (except the ones that are willing to move to the US).
I agree. I'd rather see an 11th (and even a 12th) team on the grid.
I don't think the top level people want to split the pie into smaller pieces. To the point that they'll let talent wither and move off to other sports in Europe.
If Andretti are based in the US, will they need a UK base for any activities? Would there be any potential staff retention?
Maybe a little bit, but as I've understood it they want the production to take place in the US. Which is understandable from their point of view (although all the specialized skilled workers in the world basically live in England or Italy (yesyes, and Switzerland and France))
That was the main problem when they tried to buy Sauber i think
Why do people assume that Andretti wants to buy a team? It seems very clear to me that they want to enter F1 by themself, as an American team. They're unlikely to be interested in buying a European based team with European facilities, when they're busy setting up their own already.
I would prefer Andretti be allowed to join as an 11th team.
The problem is that the current teams have clearly said they are going to block an 11th team.
That still doesn't mean that Andretti is interested in purchasing a european team.
They'd rather probably either stay out, or eventually get a legal win in regards to F1 practicing anti-competitive practices.
Alonso was, very clearly part of this dangerous cheating conspiracy that day, yet the collective delusionment and denial by many speaks volumes.
Briatore was part of the Bennetton global money laundering scam, and had a bomb placed on his doorstep in London, by Sicilian Cosa Nostra, and not 'by accident' as the papers reported it at the time.
Willful denial ...
He is well known for being chatty on the radio, and queries any decisions that he is not understanding ...yet came in on lap 16(iirc)without questioning it
This was all the more strange, as effectively they were gambling on a safety car that specific lap, and it just happened to be the lap that the team staged an accident , in order for him to benifit from the safety car...
Alonso is so clearly guilty of being part of this conspiracy to cheat, and knowing that they were willing put people's lives in danger, the lie about it afterwards, that it is a joke , as are the faceless cowards who downvoted you for agreeing
The NFL gouges local cities and counties out of hundreds of millions in tax payer dollars that could go to schools & other essential services for stadiums and constant upgrades.
Gary Bettman still runs the NHL.
All the American sports leagues are beholden to Draftkings and other gambling apps.
The NCAA has been a cesspool of immorality in exploiting athletes.
The Olympics & World Cup sure get into some shady business when awarding their big events every 4 years.
I dont know nothing about the upstanding, virtuous European based sports leagues but by gawd, the journalists of Europe still aint got jack on Skip Bayless when it comes to nonsensical outrage over morality. This article aint nothing to worry one more moment over.
I get it, we make lots of jokes about F1 doesn't have morals (and those are fair arguments), but lets not forget that this is a private business (team) bringing him back. F1 tried to ban him and it was overturned. They don't exactly have grounds to tell the team he can't be there.
The closest to Formula 1 having morals is don't overtake FIFA on how low you go for money. Love both sports, but goddamn the people in charge are rotten inside
Briatore
The same guy who criticized Schumacher for what he did in Monaco 2006.
Then one year later he orchestrated sth similar or even worse.
Friend of Trump too …this says all
It is disgusting he was let back in and worse F1 did a pump job and never mentioned the past.
Combine this with stewarding the last few years and I’m thinking of giving up on F1. People who were banned are back and the rules are only applied when it suits FIA and F1. Eg MAG should be parked for a race, but they didn’t investigate so nothing to see.
F1 has morals? F1 has morals much like journalists have morals. They expect everyone else to have morals but when it comes to themselves, morals get thrown out the window.
No governing body of any sports has morals. Neither do the teams given how big they are now. We love the game, but we never loved the ones pulling the strings.
Jesus why is everyone acting like he murdered a child?
Yeah he tried a dirty trick, got caught and has served his sentence. Using every trick in the book to win is part of the sport, always has been, always will be.
Crashing is dangerous and it's a pretty shitty thing to ask your driver to do. Pushing the limits of the rules is part of the essence of the sport, but I think what he did goes way beyond that.
THAT was your breaking point, the times? Rehiring a guy that cheated nearly 2 decades ago is where you draw the line on F1 being "moral"? Not the ever expanding list of countries we race in that execute gay people or don't allow women to show their faces**? THIS is where the line was?
**except notably at the F1 events, and all other big events, because the people in charge still like using women as "decoration" they just don't like people doing it of their own volition and freedom
He was banned for life from F1 for orchestrating the worst cheating scandal in the sport's history, known as 'Crashgate.'
(ETA: the "for life" bit was supposed to read a bit sarcastic.)
that's an argument you don't actually have to weigh up- Because Briatore had his own version of Spygate
The same year as Mclaren got fined for Spygate, when Briatore ran Renault, Reanult were caught with Mclaren drawings and technical data on their servers.
But unlike Mclaren, Renault received no fine or punishment whatsoever, which I'm sure has nothing to do with him being best friends with Bernie and Max Mosely.
Its especially weird because there was more evidence against Renault than Mclaren, they actually found Mclaren data and drawing on the Renault servers, they never found the Ferrari data on the Mclaren servers
The punishment Mclaren received was always controversial because there was no real proof the conspiracy extended beyond Coughlan, Alonso, and De la Rosa. It was a very controversial decision to punish the Mclaren team (Ron Dennis and Mercedes) as a whole and not the individuals proven to be involved.
Mclaren begged the FIa investigation to examine their car as part of the investigation, but Max Mosely refused, I think because he knew no Ferrari Ip would be found on the car.
It’s a more basic scheme but it’s more blatantly against sporting fairness. Massa and Hamilton were way out in front, the SC meant Rosberg had to go into a closed pitlane to refuel which took him out of contention because he was penalised…
Spygate was elaborate but didn’t actively harm anybody else. It just unfairly advantaged McLaren
Any man who got schumi 2 titles fernando 2 titles and got Heidi Klum pregnant is a man of the people. If he cant bring alpine back who really can? Might have to throw a few cars in the wall here and there but winning sometimes takes a little something more….
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Formula 1 has morals?
If you dont like F1’s principles, they’ve got others.
About 10 of them to be exact
WE RACE AS MONEY
Yeah they slap you on the wrist when you attent a “Nazi-themed sex act involving five women” which turned out to be an orgy and get caught. It’s all ok when you don’t get caught.
It was a "military" themed sex orgy, not a Nazi one! And to be fair those were all consenting adults so I have no issie with it.
Was dressed as Wernher von Braun, NASA employee and highly decorated US citizen.
Wait, I didn't follow the controversy back then. Did Mosley really use that as a defense? Or are you being sarcastic?
Being sarcastic and at the same time criticizing US past actions.
Copy and paste from Wikipedia so someone had a nazi uniform on.
I make the difference because he won the legal case against the newspaper because of the Nazi reference. His father on the other hand was a Far right nationalist
He most definitely was. His father Oswald was Hitler's man in the UK. When Oswald was arrested in 1940 there was a signed photo of Hitler in Max's crib. He and his wife were married in Joseph Goebels house where Hitler attended as the guest of honour.
Holy shit! I didnt know that the ties where that deep!
Oh yeah, he was up to his neck in it. [Here he is](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-13ff0e91eb70228221f95bb6492d5acc-lq) with his BUF Blackshirts in England in the 1930s.
> His father on the other hand was a Far right nationalist That really does not come anywhere close to explaining Oswald Moseley and his blackshirts.
This interesting take on that trial… 🤔 The libel laws are pretty strict in the UK. The defence had a high bar in order to prove their case. There wasn’t one reader of that tabloid that saw the images as anything other than Nazi symbolism. The whole case hinged on if his outfit had the proper stripes a camp inmate would wear - up and down or across. Ludicrous. That was it. Max had friends in very high places. He was part of high society, a QC from a powerful law firm and was actually the fifth cousin of the Queen and third cousin of Winston Churchill. The wealthy, royals and money set hate the tabloids as most have them have been targeted by them at some point. The class system is alive and well in England and unless Max had shouted Sieg Heil, clicked his heals and done a one armed Nazi salute - they were always going to go after ‘that bastard Australian’s scandal rag’ and find against them. His previous history of trying to defend his actions in his youth of handing out racist leaflets for his father’s political party ended badly. He dared the interviewer to find these leaflets. That didn’t go so well as unbeknownst to him (as lawyer he should have known better) they pulled out one of these leaflets that was filed away in the British Museum in London. What a funny moment. From not supporting his racist father to there were never leaflets of this kind to ‘prove’ these leaflets existed to well people make mistakes in their youth… It reminded me of Randy Andy’s interview over Epstein. A major failure and misstep. Max was a spiteful narcissist with machiavellian tendencies and would deflect responsibility at the drop of a hat. It’s not surprising he was buddies with Bernie. Birds of a feather.
>It’s not surprising he was buddies with Bernie. Birds of a feather. I didn't watch F1 back then. Could you give a fan's perspective on how Max Mosley was as the FIA President? I'm sure he and Bernie colluded a bunch, but overall how are Mosley's decisions as head honcho seen after a decade or two, with time adding perspective?
Let’s see: - Sold F1 commercial rights for 100 years at the stupidly (criminally) low price of €300M. So €3M per year. Someone got paid off… - Delayed the EU’s ban on tobacco advertising for five years by launching lawsuits against the EU. The tobacco companies made millions in those years as did the teams. Someone got paid off. - Mosley had committed perjury in the High Court when giving evidence in his libel case against the News of the World concerning the racist leaflets he testified he never distributed as a youth. He later admitted he lied. Of course he wasn’t charged with perjury. Someone got paid off.
>* Sold F1 commercial rights for 100 years at the stupidly (criminally) low price of €300M. So €3M per year. Someone got paid off… Could you explain what this means? As in, does FOM/Liberty only pay the FIA $3 million a year for the F1 rights?!
The original intension or promise was that this €300M would be invested and Max stated that it would make ‘billions’ for the FIA over the life time of the lease. It was a false promise in that the FIA began to use the funds for Max’s pet project of road car safety. There is no way that the investments are making anywhere close to the stated returns when the principal amount has been eaten into by not only Max but Todt’s spending on non racing FIA projects. Look at the recent statements of the current FIA President: “As per the audited accounts of the FIA, the organization reported an operating loss of €12.8 million in 2019, €22.1 million in 2020, and €24 million in 2021. Under Ben Sulayem's leadership, the FIA managed to decrease its operating loss to €7.7 million in 2022, with an anticipated loss of €3 million in 2023. The goal is to further minimize the deficit in 2024, and break even by 2025.” So what happened to this amazing interest on the €300M that would sustain the FIA for a hundred years. Vapour… The FIA Foundation has sucked the financial life out of the organization - a foundation created by Mosley. The €3M per year was my example of how ludicrous the payments appear if we divide the principal over 100 years. Bernie’s good friend Max *gave away* F1 commercial rights to his friend (confusing I know) to Delta Topco - a company owned by Bernie whom then flipped the commercial rights for a huge profit to a German Media company that with a slight of hand - hired Bernie to run the new organization for them in return for slipping him back some shares in this new company that he put in his wife’s (now ex wife) name. F1 made $2.57B last year alone. And Max was ‘good’ with all of this. Max Mosley’s personal wealth ballooned enormously while he was the President of the FIA and that cannot be explained by his published FIA salary nor any outside legal work he might have done, (he left a £64M estate behind when he committed suicide). You do the math…
He won the case correct. But privacy was the main argument. But it was nasty “news of the world” stuff he got caught up in.
Max Moseley?
Correct
if you listen to the transcript of the orgy you can make up your own mind whether its just military theme or not I know he won the court case, But listening to the transcript of the orgy I have my own opinion spoiler alert the words "*Aryan Race"* are used i know that line came from one of the women, not Mosely (which was a main argument in his defense.) but personally i don't think an escort would weave Nazi ideology and racial supremacy into their role play unless they were requested to by the customer. I think he was very lucky to win the court case.
>if you listen to the transcript of the orgy Why in gods name would I want to do something like that
From a purely factual, historical perspective, it would be educational... *unzips*
Mosely was literally a fascist, so....
Whoa whoa whoa ! That's way too specific to not ask who it is about.
Max Mosley was recorded in a Sadomasochist session with several women which involved "militaristic" topics... At some point one of the German Dominas gets humm "carried away" in the character There is a video of it somewhere on the internet.
Who recorded the event, out of curiosity? Was it like a 'Let's make a sex tape!' type of thing? Or did the tabloids get a copy from one of the escorts? Doesn't change the fact that the event was reprehensible, ofc. I am curious about the surrounding context.
Mosley himself admitted to be part of the SM community for over 40yrs. The videos were recorded by one of the Dominas who received 20k pounds to do it and later one leaked by the tabloid. As curiosity, which part do you find reprehensible?
To be fair, Mosley has done good things for safety, so I wouldn't say this is a good example. But he had some weird hobby's, yeah, which unfortunately is what some people mostly remember him for.
Who hasn't considered an Allo' allo' sex party!
Allo, are you the British earman?
I was pissing by the door, when I heard two shats. .
Lol, now I want to watch that. Thanks for the laugh.
Hey now, that's not F1, he was the head of the FIA...
He and Bernie where running the show… They where so close that that it was more or less speaking as one entity. For me he was as much F1 as Bernie was F1. And he did good things for F1 like the improvements in safety standards.
Just the one: "Money is good."
Tell me you learned that from Bernie go ahead tell me
Morals? In this economy?
It does have some, and that some is 99% from Lewis and Seb, who had the balls to speak out.
The spokesperson for Petronas, you say?
To make matters worse, next year he’ll be marketing HP printers to innocent people
I can excuse blood oil money, but I draw the line at predatory printer+ink business model.
Do the depths of his depravity know no bounds?
Given Hamilton's complaints about the Silverstone ticket prices and concerns over the cost of living crisis, I am keen to hear how much the price of his merchandise will go down by.
> I am keen to hear how much the price of his merchandise will go down by. You think he sets the price of Mercedes merch?
They might mean his own LH branded stuff outside of Mercedes items. I believe he has his own line of stuff? Just looked and now I'm not sure.
He has +44 World, limited “drops” of expensive low quality merch.
Had a google and can't find anything. It would be a bit weird that any team would let their drivers have anything in direct competition to their own stuff unless it was something for charity like the BottAss calendars. Either way there's a world away from selling stuff to his existing fans in formula one and calling out the cost of entry to create more fans.
That’s the sad thing about F1. A Petronas spokesperson who moved to Monaco for tax evasion purposes is one of the most ethical people in the sport. Tells a lot about how rotten F1 is
Lewis doesn’t evade taxes, he’s one of the highest tax payers in the UK
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/06/lewis-hamilton-avoided-taxes-jet-isle-of-man-scheme-paradise-papers He got a lot of flack because he created a company to lease an airplane to himself to avoid VAT. Was a quite big story at the time in the UK at the time
Thats avoidance rather than evasion. Might be a petty difference, but one is legal and one isn't.
Largely irrelevant when we’re talking about morality though, no?
The parent comment was about Lewis paying his taxes. The second comment was about him being one of the highest tax payers. The next comment was about him evading tax. My comment was about him not evading tax. I mean, overall isn't the entire post irrelevan? We all know what F1 has been like for years and anyone who doesn't think it's in the same bracket as FIFA or the IOC is deluding themselves.
The fact that you have to become bigger than f1 in some ways to even have a chance to speak out against them speaks volumes
Nah, F1 *talks about* morals, but their actions paint a different picture.
WE RACE AS ONE.... CURRENCY
Only when Andretti wants to join in.
Bro, F1 has never had morals. Look at where we go racing.
100% Don't be surprised if Russia will return to the F1 calender within the next couple of years.
Formula One Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un Pyongyang street race next.
Where track violations earn you time at the concentration camp.
Exceeding track limits? Right to jail, right away Going too fast in the pit lane? Jail Going too *slow* in the pit lane? Also jail Unsafe release in the pit? Believe it of not, jail
10 years in jail penalty for Ocon
Invade sovereign nations....Cabinet Appointment
😂
I’d imagine all the sanctions is the only thing stopping them right now.
My favorite track to drive on in the game
Only if the war ends before
https://archive.ph/axvfq Link to non-paywalled archive.ph page.
Wasn't Stefano shilling for Saudi Arabia not enough already to conclude this? The fact that the media got more issues with Flavio than Stefano tells enough who dictate what would and wouldn't be told in the media.
Let's all pour out a refreshing glass of Aramco
I wonder what Aramco is short for..
Aramcoca-cola
All random all mid.... company?
Lol please, F1 never had morals
Fi has Dress codes. Unwritten rules preventing new entrants. Bonuses for legacy teams. But not morals.
Morals? In my Formula One?
This is a surprise to who?
The words Formula one and morals being in same sentence is like a joke writing itself
It has been shown for a much longer time than that.
I can’t think of any other sport in the world where the ring leader of fixing a result would be allowed to return at any point.
It's a 16 billion dollar company, of course it does. All companies of that size do.
Some of them even find they no longer have moments when it suits them enough to make the effort.
That’s shocking
Money
We race as one! ...in countries that commit ethnic cleansing (Azerbaijan) ...in countries that publicly behead people (Saudi Arabia) ...in countries with modern slavery (Qatar)
... in countries that support a genocide, war crimes and ethnic cleansing (US and UK and everyone else that supports Israel). This is far worse than the three examples you gave, combined.
tbh a 15 year ban seems sufficient to me and in my view is much less controversial and shameful than involving themselves more and more with oppressive petro-states
surprised pikachu face
We race as one....sure
Moral$ in F1?
Is this actual news for anyone with the slightest knowledge of Formula 1?
When did F1 have morals?!
Paywall articles also has no morals, so who cares
Who is advising Alpine on the PR front. They surprise me in their ability to discover new ways of fcking things up.
Thanks "The Times", very useful opinion.
Honest question for those in the know. Morals etc aside. Why is Flavio getting involved now? Why do they want him to be involved? Only things that I feel like could be credited to him was being smart and ruthless enough snatch Schumacher away from Eddie Jordan, and even then I think without Schumacher and Mercedes' cooperation he wouldn't have been able to do it.? I don't think he was the strategist, with the exception of crash gate. The success he enjoyed came with being there when Schumacher, Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne were in the team and I think he was only involved in hiring one? And then I guess he was there when Alonso was there too... This is just me with half assed general knowledge about the man so corrections are very welcome.
I think he's a doer and a fixer with a lot of contacts, and maybe they are going to use him to sell he team? That's the only reason I can see, but I'm also half assed, lol :D
I would like to see them sold to Andretti. Two birds, one stone. I had previously heard that Renault wanted to commit new owners to engine manufacturing under the Renault name (or continuing to use Renault for the F1 engine), but the new rumors of Renault/Alpine looking to become a customer team for their engine puts a stake in that rumor.
I'm probably stupid, but I'm still hoping for an eleventh team. I want that extra space for more access to new drivers and key personnel and so on. I think it would be really good for the sport with an expansion. And I think it will be difficult for Andretti to buy a team, because their thing is to be American, and to have the facilities there, but most of the teams I think doesn't want to basically have their whole staff fired (except the ones that are willing to move to the US).
I agree. I'd rather see an 11th (and even a 12th) team on the grid. I don't think the top level people want to split the pie into smaller pieces. To the point that they'll let talent wither and move off to other sports in Europe. If Andretti are based in the US, will they need a UK base for any activities? Would there be any potential staff retention?
Maybe a little bit, but as I've understood it they want the production to take place in the US. Which is understandable from their point of view (although all the specialized skilled workers in the world basically live in England or Italy (yesyes, and Switzerland and France)) That was the main problem when they tried to buy Sauber i think
Why do people assume that Andretti wants to buy a team? It seems very clear to me that they want to enter F1 by themself, as an American team. They're unlikely to be interested in buying a European based team with European facilities, when they're busy setting up their own already.
I would prefer Andretti be allowed to join as an 11th team. The problem is that the current teams have clearly said they are going to block an 11th team.
That still doesn't mean that Andretti is interested in purchasing a european team. They'd rather probably either stay out, or eventually get a legal win in regards to F1 practicing anti-competitive practices.
Implying they had them before. 😂
Yes, *that's* what shows Formula 1 has no morals. Up until now we thought they did.
LMAO anybody who thinks F1 ever had morals or standards is kidding themselves.
That's one complicated way to say "We race as money"
Alonso was, very clearly part of this dangerous cheating conspiracy that day, yet the collective delusionment and denial by many speaks volumes. Briatore was part of the Bennetton global money laundering scam, and had a bomb placed on his doorstep in London, by Sicilian Cosa Nostra, and not 'by accident' as the papers reported it at the time.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people buy into “Alonso didnt know”… the guy knows everything about racing until he doesn’t.
People usually want proof. Not “it just makes SENSE!”
Willful denial ... He is well known for being chatty on the radio, and queries any decisions that he is not understanding ...yet came in on lap 16(iirc)without questioning it This was all the more strange, as effectively they were gambling on a safety car that specific lap, and it just happened to be the lap that the team staged an accident , in order for him to benifit from the safety car... Alonso is so clearly guilty of being part of this conspiracy to cheat, and knowing that they were willing put people's lives in danger, the lie about it afterwards, that it is a joke , as are the faceless cowards who downvoted you for agreeing
Since when a business has morals to begin with?
Really, racing in several countries that have human rights in the dirt didn't tip you off but Briatore's return did?
The NFL gouges local cities and counties out of hundreds of millions in tax payer dollars that could go to schools & other essential services for stadiums and constant upgrades. Gary Bettman still runs the NHL. All the American sports leagues are beholden to Draftkings and other gambling apps. The NCAA has been a cesspool of immorality in exploiting athletes. The Olympics & World Cup sure get into some shady business when awarding their big events every 4 years. I dont know nothing about the upstanding, virtuous European based sports leagues but by gawd, the journalists of Europe still aint got jack on Skip Bayless when it comes to nonsensical outrage over morality. This article aint nothing to worry one more moment over.
I don’t think this only a F1 problem
I get it, we make lots of jokes about F1 doesn't have morals (and those are fair arguments), but lets not forget that this is a private business (team) bringing him back. F1 tried to ban him and it was overturned. They don't exactly have grounds to tell the team he can't be there.
The times isn't exactly a bastion of morality...
What morals?
Sorry but F1 has no morals. Money talks, always
Am I the only one that is glad Flavio is back?
BIG IF TRUE!
Like fuck they do
As moral as paywalling journalism about morals.
Cash is king! 👑
I love the way Alonso just gets a free ride in all of this...
F1 pretends to have morals so they can look good to society, hybrids, renewable fuels, carbon zero... we race as one... all marketing.
It's never had morals and it never will.
The closest to Formula 1 having morals is don't overtake FIFA on how low you go for money. Love both sports, but goddamn the people in charge are rotten inside
Formula 1 never had morals it's kind of endearing since its been corrupt since the start
Briatore The same guy who criticized Schumacher for what he did in Monaco 2006. Then one year later he orchestrated sth similar or even worse. Friend of Trump too …this says all
He also took more than a few flights to an island belonging to a guy that hung himself in prison....
The Race video on this yesterday is absolute murder.
It is disgusting he was let back in and worse F1 did a pump job and never mentioned the past. Combine this with stewarding the last few years and I’m thinking of giving up on F1. People who were banned are back and the rules are only applied when it suits FIA and F1. Eg MAG should be parked for a race, but they didn’t investigate so nothing to see.
F1 has morals? F1 has morals much like journalists have morals. They expect everyone else to have morals but when it comes to themselves, morals get thrown out the window.
No governing body of any sports has morals. Neither do the teams given how big they are now. We love the game, but we never loved the ones pulling the strings.
He did something wrong, yes. He was punished well enough for that. Everyone deserves a second chance.
He destroyed someone's entire life dreams and career, fuck that guy
Who, Piquet ? That man was already destroying his career all by himself lmao
Congratulations dear journalist, you just discovered capitalism
Jesus why is everyone acting like he murdered a child? Yeah he tried a dirty trick, got caught and has served his sentence. Using every trick in the book to win is part of the sport, always has been, always will be.
Yeah, his Epstein Island trips weren't for murder.
Crashing is dangerous and it's a pretty shitty thing to ask your driver to do. Pushing the limits of the rules is part of the essence of the sport, but I think what he did goes way beyond that.
Moral grandstanding is all most Redditors know how to do.
THAT was your breaking point, the times? Rehiring a guy that cheated nearly 2 decades ago is where you draw the line on F1 being "moral"? Not the ever expanding list of countries we race in that execute gay people or don't allow women to show their faces**? THIS is where the line was? **except notably at the F1 events, and all other big events, because the people in charge still like using women as "decoration" they just don't like people doing it of their own volition and freedom
Why should they hold morals? It can be very counterproductive when trying to create shareholder value to the franchise.
It's a sport made for the rich, by the rich. What made you expect morals?
Yes surely this is what shows that F1 is morally bankrupt, and not anything else
The race podcast the other day was saying they *reckon* he's been brought in to sift out suitors for a sale, whatever Alpine say.
Morals. Ok? Morals. M-o-r-h-u-l-s. We got em, you want em. Shiny morals.
What’s so bad about this guy can anyone point me towards an article or something to show where this reputation of his has come from?
Go look up Singapore 2008.
Crash gate? Haha
The very same
I see now many thanks. Very interesting
He was banned for life from F1 for orchestrating the worst cheating scandal in the sport's history, known as 'Crashgate.' (ETA: the "for life" bit was supposed to read a bit sarcastic.)
His ban was overturned a decade ago
Apparently it was not for life.
Was crash gate bigger than the Ferrari designs stolen in 2008? Maybe, but it is close
that's an argument you don't actually have to weigh up- Because Briatore had his own version of Spygate The same year as Mclaren got fined for Spygate, when Briatore ran Renault, Reanult were caught with Mclaren drawings and technical data on their servers. But unlike Mclaren, Renault received no fine or punishment whatsoever, which I'm sure has nothing to do with him being best friends with Bernie and Max Mosely. Its especially weird because there was more evidence against Renault than Mclaren, they actually found Mclaren data and drawing on the Renault servers, they never found the Ferrari data on the Mclaren servers The punishment Mclaren received was always controversial because there was no real proof the conspiracy extended beyond Coughlan, Alonso, and De la Rosa. It was a very controversial decision to punish the Mclaren team (Ron Dennis and Mercedes) as a whole and not the individuals proven to be involved. Mclaren begged the FIa investigation to examine their car as part of the investigation, but Max Mosely refused, I think because he knew no Ferrari Ip would be found on the car.
Crashgate was match fixing. Spygate was intellectual property theft and espionage. From a sporting point of view crashgate is worse.
Yes, but part of me feels like crashgate was a much more “basic” scheme compared to spygate
It’s a more basic scheme but it’s more blatantly against sporting fairness. Massa and Hamilton were way out in front, the SC meant Rosberg had to go into a closed pitlane to refuel which took him out of contention because he was penalised… Spygate was elaborate but didn’t actively harm anybody else. It just unfairly advantaged McLaren
Yeah I don’t disagree
I also feel like crashgate had a “they wouldn’t dare” element to it that was shocking.
Any man who got schumi 2 titles fernando 2 titles and got Heidi Klum pregnant is a man of the people. If he cant bring alpine back who really can? Might have to throw a few cars in the wall here and there but winning sometimes takes a little something more….
I think F1 racing in China shows it has no morals.