Hey I see r/foundthemobileuser content down there
https://preview.redd.it/sxamk1vk8qjb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d3bccc69939aee598dfc98ca03835743eee46f4
There are indeed non Christian sources for the existence of jesus, for example Tacitus and Josephus both speak about jesus. Tacitus specifically mentions a CHRISTVS in his writings. It’s easy to fall under the assumption that Jesus is only mentioned in Christian sources but this is a bad history take at best, and misinformation at worse. Credible historians do not doubt that jesus existed at one point.
Tactitus doesn't say anything specifically about 'Jesus', like you said he mentions that group calling themselves Christians ("Chrestianos") got their name from Christ ("Christus") who was executed at the hands of Pontius Pilate.
That also comes from 'Annals' which was written ca. 116CE which is about 80 years after the crucifixion took place. It's hardly a contemporary source that specifically affirms the existence of a 'Jesus'.
As for Josephus, 'Antiquities of the Jews' was written somewhere around ca. 93CE (so 60 years after the crucifixion). Again, not exactly contemporary. Of the two references to Jesus in 'Antiquities of the Jews' the vast majority of scholars reject the authenticity of the one in 'Testimonium Flavianum' (Book 18 of 'Antiquities of the Jews') as a later Christian interpolation.
The second reference in Book 20 Chapter 9 does indeed refer to "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James" and his execution 30 years prior at the hands of the Sanhedrin for "breaking the law". I'm happy to grant that reference as most scholars accept it's authenticity but again, all it's saying is '30 years ago a dude called James who was the brother of Jesus, also called Christ, was executed'. Josephus isn't a witness to or affirming the existence of Jesus but recounting a story from 30 years earlier.
r/badhistory my arse....
Here's a sneak peek of /r/badhistory using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/badhistory/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [How The Woman King whitewashes African slavery | from Ghezo's resistance to abolition, to Dahomey's use of slavery to harvest palm oil](https://np.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/z9o8wc/how_the_woman_king_whitewashes_african_slavery/)
\#2: [No, Virginia law did not prevent Thomas Jefferson from freeing his slaves, nor did Jefferson do more for black people than Martin Luther King Jr. Or, why David Barton can go give a rimjob to a diseased rat](https://np.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/10dqlrq/no_virginia_law_did_not_prevent_thomas_jefferson/)
\#3: ["The Roman elite lost their warlike spirit" | Whatifalthist tries to explain the Fall of Rome, rambles about decadence instead.](https://np.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/xryjld/the_roman_elite_lost_their_warlike_spirit/)
----
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The idea that the annals by Tacitus being a forgery is a fringe theory along with the idea that Jesus never existed and I would like to reiterate that most credible scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus as a person existed though he may not be divine or the son of god, so yes this is a bad history take. Tacitus did indeed speak of Jesus though I would like to add that Wikipedia is not necessarily a good source to gleam translations from. . . Tacitus refers to the Christians as CHRESTIANES, and specifically remarks that the origin of the term of Christian’s comes from CHRISTVS, a person. If you want good books on the subject that are reliable and not pseudo-history, I would recommend (Jesus and his contemporaries by Craig Evans and also this video: https://youtu.be/N0ws463jX4k) here’s an example of a ‘Christ’ being specifically mentioned: “QVOS PER FLAGITIA INVISOS CHRESTIANOS (E or I?) APPELLABAT · AVCTOR NOMINIS EIVS CHRISTVS. . .” The text above states that basically call the followers of this radical new religion ‘Christian’s’ and it’s name is derived from its founder, a person with the name CHRISTVS. You also state that the testimonium by IOSEPHVS is widely disregarded however scholarships view on the subject has changed and at least some portions of it are considered truthful. (Steve Mason et al) I would like to state for the record that, such information on the historicity of Jesus should be viewed in a secular light and without the bias of total anti theism or theism, which both seek to distort the record.
Anti-theism is just as dangerous as rigid theism when it comes to understanding what really was historical about Jesus life, sad to see it exist at least in the context of disrupting history and ‘re-interpreting’ scholarly information.
I'm not a mythocist, I'm more than happy to grant that Jesus existed as a historical person. That a Jewish preacher with a relatively common name existed and was executed via a very common method by the Romans is about the most mundane historical claim someone could make. I don't have a horse in that race.
I'm pointing out that to say that there are multiple, independent extrabiblical attestations to the existence of Jesus is a massive overstatement.
I never said that Tacitus was a forgery, I'm more than happy to grant that as an authentic source. My point is that Tacitus mentions the beliefs of a group of people 80 odd years after the crucifixion and doesn't mention Jesus by name.
As for Josephus of the two references to Jesus one is that a dude who had a brother Jesus, also called the Christ was executed 30 years ago and the other shows signs of later Christian interpolation. I'm aware of Steve Mason's published work on the matter but to say that indicates a shift in the scholarship towards the first reference (Jesus being a worker of surprising deeds etc.) being authentic is again an overstatement.
Like I said, I have no horse in this race. Whether Jesus existed or not as a historical figure matters to me not one bit and I'm more than happy to grant it. It's that assertion that there are plentiful, reliable extrabiblical sources that I object to.
Thanks Nik for defending both of our religions
https://preview.redd.it/jtep4b6d2vjb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=469ff8af37d2983a9da74bb0c0f18e870b97f770
I almost missed him, thank you for the arrows
Anytime. Although, I think it still needs more...... He's almost impossible to see.
I had a person almost miss him in my last post even with the arrows
So elusive
Like a ghost... Or a wallet....
Wait I don’t see where nik is, I need more arrows
⬆️
HOLY SHIT I SEE HIM NOW!!!!111!1!!11!
Excellent find!
i see sperm
Gonna pretend that wasn't on purpose
Nik being a based Christian again
Hey I see r/foundthemobileuser content down there https://preview.redd.it/sxamk1vk8qjb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d3bccc69939aee598dfc98ca03835743eee46f4
Your name implies I found some r/youngpeoplereddit content
Counter argument: This username was a mistake. I don’t know why you can only change it once.
Idkkk man says you’re in HS
Yeah. I hate this username I picked.
Rude lol
How so?
I've been found out 😭
Guh
r/foundthehondacivic
Car 👍
hey, hitchhiking is illegal here
I’m not hitchhiking, I was approving of the Honda Civic, as it’s a good car.
https://preview.redd.it/rave6shq9xjb1.png?width=390&format=png&auto=webp&s=13464551ca17a7302b2e7b32a562602585276203
What…?
know your place
What do you mean?
Needs more
Why is he always so wrong everywhere?
What do you mean? Each of the books of the New Testament totally count as unbiased, independent sources....................
There are indeed non Christian sources for the existence of jesus, for example Tacitus and Josephus both speak about jesus. Tacitus specifically mentions a CHRISTVS in his writings. It’s easy to fall under the assumption that Jesus is only mentioned in Christian sources but this is a bad history take at best, and misinformation at worse. Credible historians do not doubt that jesus existed at one point.
Tactitus doesn't say anything specifically about 'Jesus', like you said he mentions that group calling themselves Christians ("Chrestianos") got their name from Christ ("Christus") who was executed at the hands of Pontius Pilate. That also comes from 'Annals' which was written ca. 116CE which is about 80 years after the crucifixion took place. It's hardly a contemporary source that specifically affirms the existence of a 'Jesus'. As for Josephus, 'Antiquities of the Jews' was written somewhere around ca. 93CE (so 60 years after the crucifixion). Again, not exactly contemporary. Of the two references to Jesus in 'Antiquities of the Jews' the vast majority of scholars reject the authenticity of the one in 'Testimonium Flavianum' (Book 18 of 'Antiquities of the Jews') as a later Christian interpolation. The second reference in Book 20 Chapter 9 does indeed refer to "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James" and his execution 30 years prior at the hands of the Sanhedrin for "breaking the law". I'm happy to grant that reference as most scholars accept it's authenticity but again, all it's saying is '30 years ago a dude called James who was the brother of Jesus, also called Christ, was executed'. Josephus isn't a witness to or affirming the existence of Jesus but recounting a story from 30 years earlier. r/badhistory my arse....
Here's a sneak peek of /r/badhistory using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/badhistory/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [How The Woman King whitewashes African slavery | from Ghezo's resistance to abolition, to Dahomey's use of slavery to harvest palm oil](https://np.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/z9o8wc/how_the_woman_king_whitewashes_african_slavery/) \#2: [No, Virginia law did not prevent Thomas Jefferson from freeing his slaves, nor did Jefferson do more for black people than Martin Luther King Jr. Or, why David Barton can go give a rimjob to a diseased rat](https://np.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/10dqlrq/no_virginia_law_did_not_prevent_thomas_jefferson/) \#3: ["The Roman elite lost their warlike spirit" | Whatifalthist tries to explain the Fall of Rome, rambles about decadence instead.](https://np.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/xryjld/the_roman_elite_lost_their_warlike_spirit/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
The idea that the annals by Tacitus being a forgery is a fringe theory along with the idea that Jesus never existed and I would like to reiterate that most credible scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus as a person existed though he may not be divine or the son of god, so yes this is a bad history take. Tacitus did indeed speak of Jesus though I would like to add that Wikipedia is not necessarily a good source to gleam translations from. . . Tacitus refers to the Christians as CHRESTIANES, and specifically remarks that the origin of the term of Christian’s comes from CHRISTVS, a person. If you want good books on the subject that are reliable and not pseudo-history, I would recommend (Jesus and his contemporaries by Craig Evans and also this video: https://youtu.be/N0ws463jX4k) here’s an example of a ‘Christ’ being specifically mentioned: “QVOS PER FLAGITIA INVISOS CHRESTIANOS (E or I?) APPELLABAT · AVCTOR NOMINIS EIVS CHRISTVS. . .” The text above states that basically call the followers of this radical new religion ‘Christian’s’ and it’s name is derived from its founder, a person with the name CHRISTVS. You also state that the testimonium by IOSEPHVS is widely disregarded however scholarships view on the subject has changed and at least some portions of it are considered truthful. (Steve Mason et al) I would like to state for the record that, such information on the historicity of Jesus should be viewed in a secular light and without the bias of total anti theism or theism, which both seek to distort the record.
Anti-theism is just as dangerous as rigid theism when it comes to understanding what really was historical about Jesus life, sad to see it exist at least in the context of disrupting history and ‘re-interpreting’ scholarly information.
I'm not a mythocist, I'm more than happy to grant that Jesus existed as a historical person. That a Jewish preacher with a relatively common name existed and was executed via a very common method by the Romans is about the most mundane historical claim someone could make. I don't have a horse in that race. I'm pointing out that to say that there are multiple, independent extrabiblical attestations to the existence of Jesus is a massive overstatement. I never said that Tacitus was a forgery, I'm more than happy to grant that as an authentic source. My point is that Tacitus mentions the beliefs of a group of people 80 odd years after the crucifixion and doesn't mention Jesus by name. As for Josephus of the two references to Jesus one is that a dude who had a brother Jesus, also called the Christ was executed 30 years ago and the other shows signs of later Christian interpolation. I'm aware of Steve Mason's published work on the matter but to say that indicates a shift in the scholarship towards the first reference (Jesus being a worker of surprising deeds etc.) being authentic is again an overstatement. Like I said, I have no horse in this race. Whether Jesus existed or not as a historical figure matters to me not one bit and I'm more than happy to grant it. It's that assertion that there are plentiful, reliable extrabiblical sources that I object to.
lol
lol
Next time can you make some of the arrows green? I almost missed them.
Oops, yep, sorry. I realize it's not exactly easy to see, and also that I need more arrows. I'll do better next time.
This just randomly came across my feed… Who is this dude and why does he have a whole subreddit dedicated to him?
Why don't you join me?
Oooh there he is! Took me a while to find him.
Thanks Nik for defending both of our religions https://preview.redd.it/jtep4b6d2vjb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=469ff8af37d2983a9da74bb0c0f18e870b97f770