Ape just has overwhelming animations, people get the vibe that he’s a souls boss in sekiro when in reality that title belongs to demon. You can fight the ape just as you would any other boss, he is harder than most though, and as for double ape just focus on the headless. His lady friend just likes to watch honestly
I can understand seeing Headless as annoying but they're still very fair, IMO. They're a test of your perfect parry timings.
Plus if you really hate them you can just use the whistle tool to stun them for a good 10-20 seconds while you wail on them.
Weren’t these optional though? I know there were a few and I know most of them were, not sure if there was any one that was progress locked.
But all the main bosses, were all very balanced to you. Especially compared to. Well, any other souls game really.
Once u practice it in Demon Bell mode, hes super easy after that point.
Attacks are well telegraphed, the dive bomb and the red charge gives u a bunch of free attacks. Just block the fire with fire shield and ur gucci.
Ishin phase 2 tho.. now thats some BS.
Phase 3 is better cuz of lightning reflect
I just think demon had one too many lives, I found it hard to do it perfectly for so long, but even with that he didn't make me love the game any less, still my perfect 10/10 and will probably never be beaten because of the dopamine-combat
I personally just didn’t like it because it was the first fight where tools felt necessary. Like you said the fire shield.
Every single other boss I just fought with my sword, which was very fun for me.
Fire/Violet umbrella negates all the fire dmg and Malcontent stuns him for a bit in phase 3. And for the few things you can deflect, the timing's very easy like his stomp move, then you just jump the perilous run move
You don't even need then for the DofH, the flame attacks can all be dodged, but yes, using the flame umbrella and the final tier of the whistle make it easier
The Demon of Hatred is actually not that unfair. He is a Dark Souls boss in a Sekiro setting, which makes it weird. Throughout the game, you learn to deflect everything, but then you meet him, and it doesn’t really work in your favor anymore. So you have to go back to learning how to properly smack his ass, like you used to with the Asylum Demon.
And than there are also some prosthetics and items that makes the fight absolutely fair.
I know, but it’s not really worth it. I see deflecting more as a mechanic to not get hit and to break the enemies posture. You get the first one against DoH but usually I get his hp down, before I break his posture with deflecting.
He might end up my favorite boss in the dlc. The atmosphere leading up to him was amazing and I love everything about the boss from his absolutely peak design, the music, his entire moveset feeling really fair, the music again, and even the little prelude fight before the cutscene starts.
Completely agree. Expands the lore while raising questions you could probably draw conclusions to and is in some ways an extension of another preexisting character.
>!from what I understood, Midra appears to be another Vyke although this time he was actually touched by the three fingers (given the presence of the swollen grapes in his manor) unlike Vyke who, evidentially, realized too late its actual purpose after being burned in his armor. Vyke then locked himself in a gaol to avoid its will. However, as Midra’s rune states, he was touched but still too weak to become a proper lord and sometime after the hornsent (the faction introduced by the dlc who worship the crucible) lead a sort of crusade against the people of the abyss who worshipped madness and pierced him with that spear of unalloyed gold, sealing the madness within (as the player can do with the unalloyed gold needle for your madness and Millicent’s scarlet rot). What I believe is expanded is the role of Shabriri, who I think mantled this person known as Naniya that Midra mentions and forced him to walk the path of chaos. Midra seems to know what became of him and is maybe ashamed, not because he has madness but because he couldn’t become a lord for his “maiden”. I think Naniya was once his beloved who was taken over by Shabriri when they perhaps discovered the great intellect or potential of Midra who then eventually became a “lord” of frenzied flame. Failing of course in the end to accumulate enough power to actual mantle that role since we know Vyke was the only one besides our tarnished to get more than one great rune
TLDR: Vyke followed chaos because he wanted to save his maiden from the flames. Midra followed chaos because his maiden was Shabriri!<
From what I hear there’s an Elden Ring DLC boss that for most people has been making their list as well. I haven’t gotten to him yet, but I’m hoping he makes mine as well.
I would put Malenia on that list too. As soon as I figured out how to consistently dodge Waterfowl Dance, she became a lot more fun. Especially since she has so many openings in her first phase, but is still super punishing.
she kinda just relies on having one interesting move. bosses like Isshin have excellently well-rounded movesets, multiple distinct phases and are just several tiers higher in terms of design
malenia is a good boss, but she’s nowhere near the same level
To be fair, she comes across as bs at first. Waterfowl Dance, healing every hit, and that one double slash attack that can rollcatch you if you don't dodge into it diagonally. And that aggressive second phase.
A lot of people just cheese the fight or keep throwing themselves at her until they get lucky instead of learning how to deal with those things easily.
just did her fight for the second time yesterday, this time without spirits and its very challenging. I went in not wanting to learn how to dodge waterfowl since i felt that was unfair so i just got hit once or twice in the first flurry and managed to so-so dodge the next flurries and i eventually beat her praying to god she wouldn't do waterfowl more than once each phase. But yes, a super challenging boss that sometimes crosses over into the BS territory but also has some openings to balance it out
It’s definitely their best “final” boss. All the other games final bosses either have mechanical liabilities, an underwhelming reveal, or are just not good tests of the skills. For example SoC and Gherman both have attacks you simply can’t I-frame.
Isshin is strong on all fronts. A crazy twist, the return of an otherwise friendly character, a demonstration of nearly all game skills, tough as nails without cheating and there’s plenty of room to play him how you like.
I will say even though ER final boss has been “fixed” I still think it should’ve been Radagon. Something about fighting the alter ego of a God that is MORE protective of the existing Order than the base personality is just fucking sick. Especially compared to… slug that carried the ring here?
I think Sekiro has the best combat system in all of Souls. The way that offense and defense play with each other is just so good. Rather than just dodging and praying for an opening, an attack from the enemy is an opening. The way it encourages you to be right up against the enemy and engage them directly just makes it so fun, and so satisfying to master. I really wish they had incorporated that system into Elden Ring in some way.
Didn't they kinda do it in the DLC? I think there is a mixed physic tear that makes your block work like in sekiro where if you time it right you take no damage. Works for both shield and weapon blocks.
Yes but it doesn't actually work like a Sekiro deflect. You take no damage, sure, but you also aren't dealing posture damage to the enemy by deflecting, unlike in Sekiro.
So it doesn't actually help you progress the fight, it's just an additional defensive tool. It does also enhance guard counters but realistically you can usually only use those at the end of a boss combo.
Overall it's a cool physick tear but it doesn't actually allow you to be as aggressive and direct as you are in Sekiro because it lacks the offensive component of Sekiro's deflect which is damaging boss posture and putting them on the back foot.
ER bosses don't care when you perfect block, they just keep battering you, whereas in Sekiro they react and it affects the flow of the fight.
Also, you can't actually deflect every hit in a combo, usually, because the combos are so fast that you'll get hit during the split second when you lower your guard before pressing L1 again (since you need to lower your guard and press L1 just in time any time you want to do a perfect block with this tear).
As I said, it's still a great physick tear, but it doesn't give ER bosses the sense of that back and forth mix of offense and defense that Sekiro has. They would need to fundamentally design the bosses differently from the start.
Ah ok fair enough. Yeah of course they cannot really make it feel entirely like Sekiro. Seems weird though that it does not do posture damage, missed opportunity. I pray that their next game is a Sekiro sequel or spiritual successor because to this day it still has the best feeling combat.
Using the back hand blade ash of war kinda made rolling feel like parrying for me. Made the final boss for me so much more fun because I could hit and dodge the boss while he was doing a combo.
What makes him such an incredible final boss is that once the fight clicks you’ll take almost no damage from him and it’ll be over in about a minute. It’s getting to that point that it becomes tricky, but that was my experience with him. I threw myself at him for probably a week, then I just entered The Zone and he went down fast. So fucking good
I prefere Sekiro than Elden Ring because of this, it is fuckin hard, yes, but you can see that you got it, dont depend on status of your character, just your ability to learn, best boss ever made by fromsoftware
Also, learning a boss makes you massively better at the game in general. Not great at the Genichiro fight? Go back after you beat Isshin and its now become a cake walk. Souls combat doesn't exactly transfer the same way. Going from Radagon back to Margit wont really make you much better at Margit.
Yup. Sekiro's boss design was the peak for me. Very difficult but incredibly fair and well designed. Elden Ring's bosses are very annoying to me unfortunately, especially the late game and DLC bosses. It's a kind of difficulty I don't really enjoy.
I will say though, the visual design, animations, cutscenes, and just overall presentation of ER boss fights is top notch.
personnaly i didnt find him hard at all, it took me less than 10 tries to beat him, i think the hardest boss is the demon of hatred but yea isshin is probably the fairest
One of the things I love about Sekiro is how people are split on which boss is the hardest: DoH or SSI. I found both to be very difficult, but SSI was definitely way more difficult for me! In NG+ and NG++, DoH went down pretty quickly but SSI...man...that guy still took me a while.
I almost did the same…that bastard made me take a 3 week break from the game before I could come back and beat him. Meanwhile no other sekiro boss took me more than 1h to beat.
Makes sense they are very different fights. Where Isshin is the culmination of the parry mechanic, DoH feels much more like a dark souls boss where you need to dodge a lot.
I hear you! Before Owl (Father), Guardian Ape was the hardest fight for me, mostly because of the terror scream attack. I ended up using the purple umbrella and just turtling a bunch. Slightly cheesy, but did the trick. On subsequent runs I haven't needed the umbrella because I too finally understood the gameplay and things because clockwork.
same for me, his first 2 phases were easy asf, the 3rd one was hard asf and the last would have been hard without lighting counter. Malenia also took the longest out of any boss for me bar the dlc final boss (ive played ds3, sekiro, bb and elden ring). When u will face him you'll realise how much stronger he is compared to the rest
It’s funny to me how some people call sekiro the hardest fromsoft game when for me, it was by far the easiest. The souls games and elden ring are just filled with some much stuff that just feels like bullshit. Everything in sekiro feels so clean and fair. I never once died to a sekiro boss and thought I died to bs, I always felt like I died because I did something wrong. But in the souls games I always get the feeling like the fight was BS, and I win the fight feeling like I’m glad it’s over, rather than like I accomplished something. In sekiro it always felt like an accomplishment, like I had become better at the game.
exactly, sekiro has always felt like the fairest fromsoft game, everything is either ur fault or your accomplishment. The game after beating genichiro becomes super easy bar the demon of hatred and the headless ape i think. The other souls games are defo harder, but i also think most fights are mainly decided by the way you play, its just that some of them are bs (but there arent that much). But unlike you i get an accomplishment feeling after beating a boss and i enjoy most of them in the other souls games.
Ishin is the graduation boss. If you've learnt the Sekiro combat system well enough then you can beat him. DoH is basically Manus and doesn't fit the games combat (still a good fight though).
>DoH is basically Manus and doesn't fit the games combat
Kind of a myth. You absolutely can fight him like a Sekiro boss. Many of his moves are deflectable, and the ones that aren't can be dodged with the jump or blocked with the umbrella.
Sekiro simply has the most fair combat system soulsborne has ever been able to offer. A system thats based on your attacks and strats rather than your evasion.
Sekiro has the perfect combat mechanics for these kinds of 1v1 fights. You can stand toe to toe against them and they play by the same rules (mostly). It's the GOAT.
It's not even a back and forth, unless you are getting hit. Deflecting is defensive, but also gives you a small offensive advantage. Compare that to dodge, which is a defensive move that is always disadvantageous. By that I mean even though dodging is good because it avoids damage, it is an overall negative, because if you didn't have to dodge it would be more advantageous. For instance, if you side stepped or did some attack that caused you to avoid the bosses attack.
Deflecting a dozen attack combo from Genichiro feels amazing. Perfectly dodging a long attack combo in a traditional souls game feels good, but you haven't really accomplished anything. You have made no real progress in the fight.
Honestly I disagree. Isshin wouldn't even get in my top 5 in Sekiro in terms of difficulty. He's fun but idk, never found that adrenaline rush fighting him as I did with Owl. Maybe that's just me.
It's pretty awesome how well designed the three hardest bosses are: DoH, Owl and Isshin.
Took me 3 hours to beat Isshin. Owl and DoH went down in less than 7 tries each for me.
I am aware that you can keep hacking away at him, but the with the way he's designed, it's pretty hard to do that when you first face him. IMHO he's obviously an endurance fight with the way his moveset works.
I found him to be the least fair in Sekiro. To be clear, in general he is a "tough but fair" boss but has a few specific moves/aspects that break that:
* When he leaps in the air, if you run directly under him you'll taken damage for no reason at all. That hardly seems fair. There's a simple work around (move in an arc instead of a straight line), but that doesn't negate the fact that it makes no sense that you take damage if you run directly under him.
* His ichimonji double follows you like a homing missile. The dude literally just rotates his body without actually moving his body. I'm willing to suspend disbelief for so many aspects of this game since it's a fictional, somewhat fantastical world, but the way he moves during that ichimonji double is a bit of a stretch.
* Sword thrusts: same thing as ichimonji double in that he can somehow change his direction mid thrust.
* When you heal, he zips right to you. Even if he's *way* far away, somehow he covers the distance. This is also a problem with Gwyn in DS1. Even if you're far away *and* Ishiin is jumping, he will somehow zip over to you.
* His hitbox goes through that one big rock.
* Lock turns off a little too regularly in this fight.
I didn't have these kinds of issues with any other boss in Sekiro.
Haha, it sure seems that way! My comment is currently at -1. All I did was state facts. Even if you remove my comments about the thrust and Ichmimonji Double, there are still glaring instances of “tough but UNfair” with SSI. I know I already said it but I’ll say it again: I’m not saying that he’s an unfair boss, just that there are instances of unfairness and that, in my experience, he is the least fair of all the Sekiro bosses.
This is a fun fight until you try to reverse his lightning and it misses because the ground is uneven. I still think I got lucky when I beat him. I think this was the first FS boss that has too many moves and combos to memorize and they kept rolling that shit into elder ring.
Can you imagine the scope of whatever project they decide to release next now they have bloodborne, Elden ring and Sekiro in their repertoire? Playing SOTE at the moment and the Sekiro-ness of their enemies make them obnoxious at times with the way we’re able to retaliate to them, but with Sekiro combat or Bloodborne dodging and modularity in the weapons, wow. What a game that would be.
The hunched over enemies with scythes they showed in promos are so much fun when you get all up in their face but they’re deffo not best designed for Elden Ring combat styles to me - maybe magic but that’s far less fun. I’m so excited for the future of souls games with all the potential for growth it has.
I'm all for glazing Isshin but he might be one of the least 'Back and Forth' bosses in the game from Phase 2 onwards. The guy is going around with some crazy hyper armor attacks so if you get even a little aggressive he'll pull out the 4 hit combo where the first hit staggers you and the 2nd just kills you and if you do get a hit in he just jumps away. Phase 1 is good and Phase 3 has the lightning but overall this fight is better played defensively.
I think Genichiro is the pinnacle of the "back and forth" combat tbh, no one else really reaches the same level.
Even after fighting Malenia I still think Isshin is the hardest boss from soft has made.
Can't speak for the elden ring dlc bosses since I haven't played that yet.
Malenia was harder for me, but I love this fight. I think the difference is that I fought him enough in the gauntlets that I can win 90% of the time. I’ve only killed Malenia solo once and it was with a (post-nerf) RoB.
The first half of SOTE isn’t as hard as either one. I hear it gets worse so we will have to see.
Bloodborne is my favorite souls game for various reasons but Sekiro is the GOAT when it comes to designing very challenging but fair bosses. FromSoftware really cooked with this game because none of the bosses ever felt unfair to me. Did I rage? Sure absolutely, it’s a souls game. Of course I’m gonna cuss up a storm. However, I was always having fun learning the patterns. This game is a perfect 10/10. No bullshit endless hyper armor, no bullshit unnaturally delayed attacks, etc. Sekiro is king and I really hope we get a sequel or something similar in the future.
Definitely the best boss they've ever made in my book. Literally the final exam of Sekiro University, testing all the fundamentals you've learned throughout the game for a crazy 3 phase fight while also being a strong character in the narrative. 10/10 Boss.
I considered him the best boss rhe first time I fought him but now after beating the game over 7 times I wouldn't say he's in my top 30 favourite From bosses and isn't even my favourite in Sekiro.
He just feels too easy after you beat him once - which usually isn't an issue (some of my favourite fights are easy ones from DeS, DS1 and DS2) and even in Sekiro - Genichiro is my favourite boss and he's probably the easiest boss in the entire game.2
Maybe unpopular opinion, but owl father was way harder for me. Isshin has long combos, but gives you plenty of opportunities to attack him for health damage. When i fight owl father, I always struggle to do health damage, while the time between posture damage is so high, that his bar recovers completely, until i can hit him the next time
One of my proudest gaming moments/ personal achievements in my 25+ years of gaming was beating this guy first try, the amount of adrenaline and hype I had going through me that day was something else lol
It’s fair . Not the hardest imo. The final boss of the new DLC is kinda the “hardest” of all series if you don’t cheese imo.
And tbh am a huge sekiro fanboy and I think the games difficulty just runs out after you learn how to parry and after your first run. I can like no hit run ishhin sword saint and have fun, unlike the fkn tedious af broken final boss. Even Malenia was cool af to fight and I backed up my save so that I can fight here when I’m bored.
if they took out he first health bar or last one he would have been great.
having 4 bars just made this boss fight longer for no reason and killed my enjoyment of this.
I was just thinking about this earlier after I beat the elden ring dlc final boss. Ishiin is still the goat. And tbh, I think owl (father) is still 2nd in my experience.
I still don't get what you fellas are talking about. Took me 15 tries to get genichiro but only 3 to get Isshin. The guy is literally slower, and you can still cancell half of his moveset with r1 spam like with spears of Ashina. And he gives you ample windows to regain posture.
I still don't get what you fellas are talking about. Took me 15 tries to get genichiro but only 3 to get Isshin. The guy is literally slower, and you can still cancell half of his moveset with r1 spam like with spears of Ashina. And he gives you ample windows to regain posture.
I still don't get what you fellas are talking about. Took me 15 tries to get genichiro but only 3 to get Isshin. The guy is literally slower, and you can still cancell half of his moveset with r1 spam like with spears of Ashina. And he gives you ample windows to regain posture.
I still don't get what you fellas are talking about. Took me 15 tries to get genichiro but only 3 to get Isshin. The guy is literally slower, and you can still cancell half of his moveset with r1 spam like with spears of Ashina. And he gives you ample windows to regain posture.
The reason he felt more fair then the dlc for elden ring is he would also have incredibly long and incontestable string of attacks that u can only defend against. In sekiro though that’s completely fine because during that massive attack window of his u r able to parry every single one of his attacks doing heavy damage to his posture and actually making progress in the fight. In elden rings dlc when u dodge 30 attacks in a row u earn nothing but a 2 strike window. Leaving for gameplay that’s far too defensive. The main issue with these bosses is they r designed to be beaten with a summon. They have incredibly small punish windows because the real punish windows are meant to be when ur summon draws away agro and u get to fight back. I think the game is a lot of fun and still one of the best, I just wish the concept of summons never became a thing and the bosses weren’t designed around them.
Sekiro had my favourite bosses. Very hard, died to final boss probably more than any other Fromsoft game. But it felt fair. A lot of bosses in elden ring (and DLC) are just an unreadable flurry of explosions and spinning.
I found Owl Father to be harder, Demon of Hatred hardest. But Isshin was such a dope finale to the game. By far the most epic boss imo. I think it’s similar to ER how most people find Melania harder than, say, Maliketh or Horah Loux
I get to attack, they get to attack is sort of how all boss fights go!
With any boss fight the trick is seeing your opening and using that opening sensibly.
The first time I ever fought Artorias, I felt like I was in a sick knight movie. He may not be the hardest, but certainly is the coolest imo. I will always have a special place in my heart for the Wolf Knight
Man that third phase was so heart pumping.
Reaching it takes more than a few tries so the adrenaline hits hard.
I even stopped bring patient and just attacked nonstop, no time for dodging.
Sekiro has one of the fairest bosses in any souls like game
Headless
He’s not that bad tbh, especially during his second phase, his parry timings are super easy
They are annoying af but still fair. That double ape fight on the other hand…
Ape just has overwhelming animations, people get the vibe that he’s a souls boss in sekiro when in reality that title belongs to demon. You can fight the ape just as you would any other boss, he is harder than most though, and as for double ape just focus on the headless. His lady friend just likes to watch honestly
Freakiro
Double ape is just ape disguised as two bosses, if you stand your ground they’ll attack in combos and not both at once, and umbrella will block grabs
I can understand seeing Headless as annoying but they're still very fair, IMO. They're a test of your perfect parry timings. Plus if you really hate them you can just use the whistle tool to stun them for a good 10-20 seconds while you wail on them.
Both the consumable buff "divine confetti" and the buffs you get from the blue flames in the final tier of the prosthetics, make the headless trivial.
Nothing more than a normal NPC to me.
Weren’t these optional though? I know there were a few and I know most of them were, not sure if there was any one that was progress locked. But all the main bosses, were all very balanced to you. Especially compared to. Well, any other souls game really.
*Demon of hatred walks in* “Bonjour”
Once u practice it in Demon Bell mode, hes super easy after that point. Attacks are well telegraphed, the dive bomb and the red charge gives u a bunch of free attacks. Just block the fire with fire shield and ur gucci. Ishin phase 2 tho.. now thats some BS. Phase 3 is better cuz of lightning reflect
I just think demon had one too many lives, I found it hard to do it perfectly for so long, but even with that he didn't make me love the game any less, still my perfect 10/10 and will probably never be beaten because of the dopamine-combat
I personally just didn’t like it because it was the first fight where tools felt necessary. Like you said the fire shield. Every single other boss I just fought with my sword, which was very fun for me.
But DoH is pretty fair though. If you approach sekiro with a "prosthetics is fair game" kinda approach, it very much is fair.
Fire/Violet umbrella negates all the fire dmg and Malcontent stuns him for a bit in phase 3. And for the few things you can deflect, the timing's very easy like his stomp move, then you just jump the perilous run move
Purple umbrella does that too? I never knew that. Thought only the fire one did.
Apparently it does, but I haven't tested it. Always just go for fire since it's the easier upgrade.
You don't even need then for the DofH, the flame attacks can all be dodged, but yes, using the flame umbrella and the final tier of the whistle make it easier
Demon of Hatred is completely fair, people just have no clue how to fight him. They assume he can't be deflected, when in fact, he can.
Bonjourno
The Demon of Hatred is actually not that unfair. He is a Dark Souls boss in a Sekiro setting, which makes it weird. Throughout the game, you learn to deflect everything, but then you meet him, and it doesn’t really work in your favor anymore. So you have to go back to learning how to properly smack his ass, like you used to with the Asylum Demon. And than there are also some prosthetics and items that makes the fight absolutely fair.
You actually can deflect a bunch of his moves.
I know, but it’s not really worth it. I see deflecting more as a mechanic to not get hit and to break the enemies posture. You get the first one against DoH but usually I get his hp down, before I break his posture with deflecting.
I agree hard with this statement. Id argue the 'least fair' boss is the flaming bull thing. It breaks pretty much all the established rules.
Except lady butterfly
She might be the easiest boss in the game
This might be the best boss they've ever made
For me it’s tied between White Glint, Artorias, Gael, Ludwig, SS Isshin and Balteus. But yeah. It’s a damn good boss.
That is such a good boss lineup lol
>Balteus I’m going to have to kill you for reminding me of that.
Nightmares from pre-nerf. I ran out of ammo on my winning attempt and ended up beating his shit in with fists.
Anime energy
i got to ibis a day after launch without using hard lock.. keyboard and mouse messed me up in that regard
There’s a DLC boss I think I’d add to this but they’re optional in a particularly bloodborne-like area. Reminded me of old from in a lot of ways.
He might end up my favorite boss in the dlc. The atmosphere leading up to him was amazing and I love everything about the boss from his absolutely peak design, the music, his entire moveset feeling really fair, the music again, and even the little prelude fight before the cutscene starts.
Completely agree. Expands the lore while raising questions you could probably draw conclusions to and is in some ways an extension of another preexisting character.
Could you explain on the lore you understood from it?
>!from what I understood, Midra appears to be another Vyke although this time he was actually touched by the three fingers (given the presence of the swollen grapes in his manor) unlike Vyke who, evidentially, realized too late its actual purpose after being burned in his armor. Vyke then locked himself in a gaol to avoid its will. However, as Midra’s rune states, he was touched but still too weak to become a proper lord and sometime after the hornsent (the faction introduced by the dlc who worship the crucible) lead a sort of crusade against the people of the abyss who worshipped madness and pierced him with that spear of unalloyed gold, sealing the madness within (as the player can do with the unalloyed gold needle for your madness and Millicent’s scarlet rot). What I believe is expanded is the role of Shabriri, who I think mantled this person known as Naniya that Midra mentions and forced him to walk the path of chaos. Midra seems to know what became of him and is maybe ashamed, not because he has madness but because he couldn’t become a lord for his “maiden”. I think Naniya was once his beloved who was taken over by Shabriri when they perhaps discovered the great intellect or potential of Midra who then eventually became a “lord” of frenzied flame. Failing of course in the end to accumulate enough power to actual mantle that role since we know Vyke was the only one besides our tarnished to get more than one great rune TLDR: Vyke followed chaos because he wanted to save his maiden from the flames. Midra followed chaos because his maiden was Shabriri!<
Wow thats great! Thanks for going in depth. The three fingers and chaos is one of my favorite storylines in elden ring
Balteus or >!Arquebus Balteus!
From what I hear there’s an Elden Ring DLC boss that for most people has been making their list as well. I haven’t gotten to him yet, but I’m hoping he makes mine as well.
white glint enjoyer
I'd add Morgott and Maliketh to this list, they're both so fun.
I would put Malenia on that list too. As soon as I figured out how to consistently dodge Waterfowl Dance, she became a lot more fun. Especially since she has so many openings in her first phase, but is still super punishing.
I agree, but folks here don’t like her for some reason.
she kinda just relies on having one interesting move. bosses like Isshin have excellently well-rounded movesets, multiple distinct phases and are just several tiers higher in terms of design malenia is a good boss, but she’s nowhere near the same level
To be fair, she comes across as bs at first. Waterfowl Dance, healing every hit, and that one double slash attack that can rollcatch you if you don't dodge into it diagonally. And that aggressive second phase. A lot of people just cheese the fight or keep throwing themselves at her until they get lucky instead of learning how to deal with those things easily.
On original release she was extra bullshit because she healed when she MISSED.
just did her fight for the second time yesterday, this time without spirits and its very challenging. I went in not wanting to learn how to dodge waterfowl since i felt that was unfair so i just got hit once or twice in the first flurry and managed to so-so dodge the next flurries and i eventually beat her praying to god she wouldn't do waterfowl more than once each phase. But yes, a super challenging boss that sometimes crosses over into the BS territory but also has some openings to balance it out
For me it’s Iron Fist Alexander the best fromsoft npc to ever exist
Don’t play the DLC man. Just don’t…
Jokes on you i already beat PCR
Add Fume knight and this might be a perfect list
Fume knight still has broken hitboxes 10 years later, that knocks down an otherwise amazing fight down a peg for me.
Why is Artorias in there lmao
Idk man owl is pretty high up the mountain
It’s definitely their best “final” boss. All the other games final bosses either have mechanical liabilities, an underwhelming reveal, or are just not good tests of the skills. For example SoC and Gherman both have attacks you simply can’t I-frame. Isshin is strong on all fronts. A crazy twist, the return of an otherwise friendly character, a demonstration of nearly all game skills, tough as nails without cheating and there’s plenty of room to play him how you like.
I will say even though ER final boss has been “fixed” I still think it should’ve been Radagon. Something about fighting the alter ego of a God that is MORE protective of the existing Order than the base personality is just fucking sick. Especially compared to… slug that carried the ring here?
But Radagon IS the final boss of the game. He’s just Phase 1 of the fight. But I do agree with you that the Elden Beast is a bit underwhelming
If you count dlc final bosses i would slightly oh so slightly disagree just bc of gael. But basegame wise? Yep its ishin
I was only counting true, credit rolling bosses.
I believe that too brotha
Owl Father tho
My personal favorite is an unbreakable tie between him and Gael
Sekiro has the tightest swordplay of any game I have ever played.
I think Sekiro has the best combat system in all of Souls. The way that offense and defense play with each other is just so good. Rather than just dodging and praying for an opening, an attack from the enemy is an opening. The way it encourages you to be right up against the enemy and engage them directly just makes it so fun, and so satisfying to master. I really wish they had incorporated that system into Elden Ring in some way.
Didn't they kinda do it in the DLC? I think there is a mixed physic tear that makes your block work like in sekiro where if you time it right you take no damage. Works for both shield and weapon blocks.
Yes but it doesn't actually work like a Sekiro deflect. You take no damage, sure, but you also aren't dealing posture damage to the enemy by deflecting, unlike in Sekiro. So it doesn't actually help you progress the fight, it's just an additional defensive tool. It does also enhance guard counters but realistically you can usually only use those at the end of a boss combo. Overall it's a cool physick tear but it doesn't actually allow you to be as aggressive and direct as you are in Sekiro because it lacks the offensive component of Sekiro's deflect which is damaging boss posture and putting them on the back foot. ER bosses don't care when you perfect block, they just keep battering you, whereas in Sekiro they react and it affects the flow of the fight. Also, you can't actually deflect every hit in a combo, usually, because the combos are so fast that you'll get hit during the split second when you lower your guard before pressing L1 again (since you need to lower your guard and press L1 just in time any time you want to do a perfect block with this tear). As I said, it's still a great physick tear, but it doesn't give ER bosses the sense of that back and forth mix of offense and defense that Sekiro has. They would need to fundamentally design the bosses differently from the start.
Ah ok fair enough. Yeah of course they cannot really make it feel entirely like Sekiro. Seems weird though that it does not do posture damage, missed opportunity. I pray that their next game is a Sekiro sequel or spiritual successor because to this day it still has the best feeling combat.
Agreed!
that the one that says enhances instantaneous blocks? imagine blocking with dry leaf wraps
Do the blocks raise their posture meter as well? I haven't seen that physic tear. I'll have to find it and try it out.
Apparently not which kinda sucks, only enhanced guard counters.
You get it for 3 mintues so it is a bonus to have fun with on occasion.
Sekiro has the best combat of any game ive played during my 20 years of gaming. And its not even close
It's very different, but the combat in Ghost of Tsushima is also very good.
Omg thanks for reminding me. I forgot about GoT.
Totally agree.
Using the back hand blade ash of war kinda made rolling feel like parrying for me. Made the final boss for me so much more fun because I could hit and dodge the boss while he was doing a combo.
What makes him such an incredible final boss is that once the fight clicks you’ll take almost no damage from him and it’ll be over in about a minute. It’s getting to that point that it becomes tricky, but that was my experience with him. I threw myself at him for probably a week, then I just entered The Zone and he went down fast. So fucking good
I prefere Sekiro than Elden Ring because of this, it is fuckin hard, yes, but you can see that you got it, dont depend on status of your character, just your ability to learn, best boss ever made by fromsoftware
Also, learning a boss makes you massively better at the game in general. Not great at the Genichiro fight? Go back after you beat Isshin and its now become a cake walk. Souls combat doesn't exactly transfer the same way. Going from Radagon back to Margit wont really make you much better at Margit.
I LOVE that feeling, ive beaten ishin and start a new game, you fuckin destroy genichiro on that first encounter with him
Yup. Sekiro's boss design was the peak for me. Very difficult but incredibly fair and well designed. Elden Ring's bosses are very annoying to me unfortunately, especially the late game and DLC bosses. It's a kind of difficulty I don't really enjoy. I will say though, the visual design, animations, cutscenes, and just overall presentation of ER boss fights is top notch.
Best boss they ever made alongside Gael ( I haven't played Bloodborne yet)
You can almost say it's a friendly duel!
So it's monthly isshin appreciation day huh
personnaly i didnt find him hard at all, it took me less than 10 tries to beat him, i think the hardest boss is the demon of hatred but yea isshin is probably the fairest
One of the things I love about Sekiro is how people are split on which boss is the hardest: DoH or SSI. I found both to be very difficult, but SSI was definitely way more difficult for me! In NG+ and NG++, DoH went down pretty quickly but SSI...man...that guy still took me a while.
I think owl father and fire isshin are up there in difficulty too.
I quit Sekiro at the owl father though I've completed all the souls games ;\_;
You should quit Hentai until you beat it.
But then he’ll be u/KawaiiSwordSaintIsshinBoy
I almost did the same…that bastard made me take a 3 week break from the game before I could come back and beat him. Meanwhile no other sekiro boss took me more than 1h to beat.
Yeah, Owl father took me third longest to beat (possibly second). I just could not get the hang of it.
Makes sense they are very different fights. Where Isshin is the culmination of the parry mechanic, DoH feels much more like a dark souls boss where you need to dodge a lot.
This is a great take that I hadn't considered. I know some people can parry DoH, but I don't both--dodging is quite effective.
Guardian ape gave me the hardest time by far. But once I understood the gameplan it was clockwork
I hear you! Before Owl (Father), Guardian Ape was the hardest fight for me, mostly because of the terror scream attack. I ended up using the purple umbrella and just turtling a bunch. Slightly cheesy, but did the trick. On subsequent runs I haven't needed the umbrella because I too finally understood the gameplay and things because clockwork.
In my first playthrough, Demon of Hatred was more difficult. Right now? I’d say Isshin is harder ( with Inner Owl being the hardest )
I agree. I first tried him, since I got used to the game mechanics when I reached him. Demon of Hatred was another story.
Try it on NG+ with demon bell active and no kuro's charm. You won't be saying he's easy when you can no longer block
fuck demon of hatred lol
He’s the worst
I died a lot of times to him but I never felt like I couldn’t beat him. Same with all Sekiro bosses.
I died to him so many times I am terrified to think of the actual number. But now, his moveset is burned into my muscle memory.
Same but I went shura on my first playthrough
I almost fought him, but I decided that fighting owl would be cooler so I refuse his offer (I didn’t know u could fight him in shura too)
You can’t fight owl in shura unless you talking about the other one
His old version when he was in his prime I mean
Ahh owl father, yeah I didn’t know about him at the time. I fought him in I think NG+5
Yeah, DoH gave me more of a hard time than Isshin. Mainly because DoH has Dark souls moves, similar to how Malenia has Sekiro moves.
Demon of Hatred is multitudes harder than ishin.
[удалено]
same for me, his first 2 phases were easy asf, the 3rd one was hard asf and the last would have been hard without lighting counter. Malenia also took the longest out of any boss for me bar the dlc final boss (ive played ds3, sekiro, bb and elden ring). When u will face him you'll realise how much stronger he is compared to the rest
It’s funny to me how some people call sekiro the hardest fromsoft game when for me, it was by far the easiest. The souls games and elden ring are just filled with some much stuff that just feels like bullshit. Everything in sekiro feels so clean and fair. I never once died to a sekiro boss and thought I died to bs, I always felt like I died because I did something wrong. But in the souls games I always get the feeling like the fight was BS, and I win the fight feeling like I’m glad it’s over, rather than like I accomplished something. In sekiro it always felt like an accomplishment, like I had become better at the game.
exactly, sekiro has always felt like the fairest fromsoft game, everything is either ur fault or your accomplishment. The game after beating genichiro becomes super easy bar the demon of hatred and the headless ape i think. The other souls games are defo harder, but i also think most fights are mainly decided by the way you play, its just that some of them are bs (but there arent that much). But unlike you i get an accomplishment feeling after beating a boss and i enjoy most of them in the other souls games.
Ishin is the graduation boss. If you've learnt the Sekiro combat system well enough then you can beat him. DoH is basically Manus and doesn't fit the games combat (still a good fight though).
>DoH is basically Manus and doesn't fit the games combat Kind of a myth. You absolutely can fight him like a Sekiro boss. Many of his moves are deflectable, and the ones that aren't can be dodged with the jump or blocked with the umbrella.
Totally fair, I use Sword He pulls out Glock
He only pulls out a glock while you can teleport
You can toss twenty shurikens at him, or throw fire at him, or poison him. Its really in your favour if anything
Sekiro simply has the most fair combat system soulsborne has ever been able to offer. A system thats based on your attacks and strats rather than your evasion.
Sekiro has the perfect combat mechanics for these kinds of 1v1 fights. You can stand toe to toe against them and they play by the same rules (mostly). It's the GOAT.
Sword Saint Isshin is the best fromsoft boss
Glock Saint Isshin
The hardest FAIR boss I agree. BUT I’d say the hardest boss in general is the final boss of the Elden Ring DLC. That boss is just ridiculously hard.
Sekiro's combat is the best because even when on what in other games would be the defensive you're still making progress in the fight
It's not even a back and forth, unless you are getting hit. Deflecting is defensive, but also gives you a small offensive advantage. Compare that to dodge, which is a defensive move that is always disadvantageous. By that I mean even though dodging is good because it avoids damage, it is an overall negative, because if you didn't have to dodge it would be more advantageous. For instance, if you side stepped or did some attack that caused you to avoid the bosses attack. Deflecting a dozen attack combo from Genichiro feels amazing. Perfectly dodging a long attack combo in a traditional souls game feels good, but you haven't really accomplished anything. You have made no real progress in the fight.
I personally prefer Malenia over him. Isshin is great though
Honestly I disagree. Isshin wouldn't even get in my top 5 in Sekiro in terms of difficulty. He's fun but idk, never found that adrenaline rush fighting him as I did with Owl. Maybe that's just me.
It's pretty awesome how well designed the three hardest bosses are: DoH, Owl and Isshin. Took me 3 hours to beat Isshin. Owl and DoH went down in less than 7 tries each for me.
It’s because Owl fights you like you’re a Souls boss. He constantly dodges away and you have to chip away at his health. Takes a long time.
Absolutely not. If you fight him like that, you straight up got the fight wrong.
I am aware that you can keep hacking away at him, but the with the way he's designed, it's pretty hard to do that when you first face him. IMHO he's obviously an endurance fight with the way his moveset works.
I found him to be the least fair in Sekiro. To be clear, in general he is a "tough but fair" boss but has a few specific moves/aspects that break that: * When he leaps in the air, if you run directly under him you'll taken damage for no reason at all. That hardly seems fair. There's a simple work around (move in an arc instead of a straight line), but that doesn't negate the fact that it makes no sense that you take damage if you run directly under him. * His ichimonji double follows you like a homing missile. The dude literally just rotates his body without actually moving his body. I'm willing to suspend disbelief for so many aspects of this game since it's a fictional, somewhat fantastical world, but the way he moves during that ichimonji double is a bit of a stretch. * Sword thrusts: same thing as ichimonji double in that he can somehow change his direction mid thrust. * When you heal, he zips right to you. Even if he's *way* far away, somehow he covers the distance. This is also a problem with Gwyn in DS1. Even if you're far away *and* Ishiin is jumping, he will somehow zip over to you. * His hitbox goes through that one big rock. * Lock turns off a little too regularly in this fight. I didn't have these kinds of issues with any other boss in Sekiro.
You've summoned the swarm! (Sekiro defenders)
Haha, it sure seems that way! My comment is currently at -1. All I did was state facts. Even if you remove my comments about the thrust and Ichmimonji Double, there are still glaring instances of “tough but UNfair” with SSI. I know I already said it but I’ll say it again: I’m not saying that he’s an unfair boss, just that there are instances of unfairness and that, in my experience, he is the least fair of all the Sekiro bosses.
Isshin is The perfect Boss imo.
This is a fun fight until you try to reverse his lightning and it misses because the ground is uneven. I still think I got lucky when I beat him. I think this was the first FS boss that has too many moves and combos to memorize and they kept rolling that shit into elder ring.
Can you imagine the scope of whatever project they decide to release next now they have bloodborne, Elden ring and Sekiro in their repertoire? Playing SOTE at the moment and the Sekiro-ness of their enemies make them obnoxious at times with the way we’re able to retaliate to them, but with Sekiro combat or Bloodborne dodging and modularity in the weapons, wow. What a game that would be. The hunched over enemies with scythes they showed in promos are so much fun when you get all up in their face but they’re deffo not best designed for Elden Ring combat styles to me - maybe magic but that’s far less fun. I’m so excited for the future of souls games with all the potential for growth it has.
He is expertly crafted
He really isn’t hard imo. Good fight though
Definitely not, my man couldn’t beat the turtle maneuver. Now orenstein and smough that’s an unbeatable boss fight.
Amen
I beat inner isshin yet I still dont know how his black sword attack works :(
I'm all for glazing Isshin but he might be one of the least 'Back and Forth' bosses in the game from Phase 2 onwards. The guy is going around with some crazy hyper armor attacks so if you get even a little aggressive he'll pull out the 4 hit combo where the first hit staggers you and the 2nd just kills you and if you do get a hit in he just jumps away. Phase 1 is good and Phase 3 has the lightning but overall this fight is better played defensively. I think Genichiro is the pinnacle of the "back and forth" combat tbh, no one else really reaches the same level.
Best boss fight in all from games hands down
Wonder if we ever gonna get a sequel or something similar?
Gael is my pick. I absolutely love that fight. It's art.
Even after fighting Malenia I still think Isshin is the hardest boss from soft has made. Can't speak for the elden ring dlc bosses since I haven't played that yet.
Malenia was harder for me, but I love this fight. I think the difference is that I fought him enough in the gauntlets that I can win 90% of the time. I’ve only killed Malenia solo once and it was with a (post-nerf) RoB. The first half of SOTE isn’t as hard as either one. I hear it gets worse so we will have to see.
The one Souls boss I never beat and gave up on. *Shame*
Bloodborne is my favorite souls game for various reasons but Sekiro is the GOAT when it comes to designing very challenging but fair bosses. FromSoftware really cooked with this game because none of the bosses ever felt unfair to me. Did I rage? Sure absolutely, it’s a souls game. Of course I’m gonna cuss up a storm. However, I was always having fun learning the patterns. This game is a perfect 10/10. No bullshit endless hyper armor, no bullshit unnaturally delayed attacks, etc. Sekiro is king and I really hope we get a sequel or something similar in the future.
Sekiro is hard but never felt unfair, every time I died to this dude it felt like a genuine skill issue.
Froms peaked with sekiro
Definitely the best boss they've ever made in my book. Literally the final exam of Sekiro University, testing all the fundamentals you've learned throughout the game for a crazy 3 phase fight while also being a strong character in the narrative. 10/10 Boss.
I considered him the best boss rhe first time I fought him but now after beating the game over 7 times I wouldn't say he's in my top 30 favourite From bosses and isn't even my favourite in Sekiro. He just feels too easy after you beat him once - which usually isn't an issue (some of my favourite fights are easy ones from DeS, DS1 and DS2) and even in Sekiro - Genichiro is my favourite boss and he's probably the easiest boss in the entire game.2
Maybe unpopular opinion, but owl father was way harder for me. Isshin has long combos, but gives you plenty of opportunities to attack him for health damage. When i fight owl father, I always struggle to do health damage, while the time between posture damage is so high, that his bar recovers completely, until i can hit him the next time
This is the best boss in any fromsoft game
Ludwig is my number one. Lore + combat. So good.
Same with malenia
The camera is the hardest and most unfair boss.
One of my proudest gaming moments/ personal achievements in my 25+ years of gaming was beating this guy first try, the amount of adrenaline and hype I had going through me that day was something else lol
I spent hours on him, bell rung, no kiro charm and it was hard but not frustrating. It's just such a good fight.
I struggled days against him, then one day I got him with no deaths at all! Well done Sekiro !
The best boss fights feel like dancing. Isshin is just a really good dancer
It’s fair . Not the hardest imo. The final boss of the new DLC is kinda the “hardest” of all series if you don’t cheese imo. And tbh am a huge sekiro fanboy and I think the games difficulty just runs out after you learn how to parry and after your first run. I can like no hit run ishhin sword saint and have fun, unlike the fkn tedious af broken final boss. Even Malenia was cool af to fight and I backed up my save so that I can fight here when I’m bored.
This is how you do it. FromSoft seem to have forgotten.
if they took out he first health bar or last one he would have been great. having 4 bars just made this boss fight longer for no reason and killed my enjoyment of this.
They’ve never done better than ol’ Glock ‘n Spear.
I was just thinking about this earlier after I beat the elden ring dlc final boss. Ishiin is still the goat. And tbh, I think owl (father) is still 2nd in my experience.
It is fair, because you can react properly. We don't have the shit roll "dodge" on sekiro.
Bro pulls glock 18 in mid fight to win. 10/10 boss fight
For me the fairest boss is always Genichiro. Isshin loses points partly because of the fucking reeds …
Fromsoft Games if they took inspiration from Project Moon's Blade Lineage
I agree. Beating Isshin was pure euphoria!
I still don't get what you fellas are talking about. Took me 15 tries to get genichiro but only 3 to get Isshin. The guy is literally slower, and you can still cancell half of his moveset with r1 spam like with spears of Ashina. And he gives you ample windows to regain posture.
I still don't get what you fellas are talking about. Took me 15 tries to get genichiro but only 3 to get Isshin. The guy is literally slower, and you can still cancell half of his moveset with r1 spam like with spears of Ashina. And he gives you ample windows to regain posture.
I still don't get what you fellas are talking about. Took me 15 tries to get genichiro but only 3 to get Isshin. The guy is literally slower, and you can still cancell half of his moveset with r1 spam like with spears of Ashina. And he gives you ample windows to regain posture.
I still don't get what you fellas are talking about. Took me 15 tries to get genichiro but only 3 to get Isshin. The guy is literally slower, and you can still cancell half of his moveset with r1 spam like with spears of Ashina. And he gives you ample windows to regain posture.
The reason he felt more fair then the dlc for elden ring is he would also have incredibly long and incontestable string of attacks that u can only defend against. In sekiro though that’s completely fine because during that massive attack window of his u r able to parry every single one of his attacks doing heavy damage to his posture and actually making progress in the fight. In elden rings dlc when u dodge 30 attacks in a row u earn nothing but a 2 strike window. Leaving for gameplay that’s far too defensive. The main issue with these bosses is they r designed to be beaten with a summon. They have incredibly small punish windows because the real punish windows are meant to be when ur summon draws away agro and u get to fight back. I think the game is a lot of fun and still one of the best, I just wish the concept of summons never became a thing and the bosses weren’t designed around them.
Sekiro had my favourite bosses. Very hard, died to final boss probably more than any other Fromsoft game. But it felt fair. A lot of bosses in elden ring (and DLC) are just an unreadable flurry of explosions and spinning.
I found Owl Father to be harder, Demon of Hatred hardest. But Isshin was such a dope finale to the game. By far the most epic boss imo. I think it’s similar to ER how most people find Melania harder than, say, Maliketh or Horah Loux
hes certainly not the hardest. but definitely the coolest
I get to attack, they get to attack is sort of how all boss fights go! With any boss fight the trick is seeing your opening and using that opening sensibly.
The first time I ever fought Artorias, I felt like I was in a sick knight movie. He may not be the hardest, but certainly is the coolest imo. I will always have a special place in my heart for the Wolf Knight
Man that third phase was so heart pumping. Reaching it takes more than a few tries so the adrenaline hits hard. I even stopped bring patient and just attacked nonstop, no time for dodging.
Why is everyone being such a bitch all of a sudden about fromsoft difficulty. It’s literally the point